The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Joey’s Finale: A Roundtable Discussion Part 2 (with Rachel Recchia, Susie Evans and Justin Glaze)

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Ben and Ashley continue their roundtable discussion on Joey’s Bachelor finale with Rachel Recchia, Susie Evans and Justin Glaze! Find out if our panel believes Joey and Kelsey will go the distance, and we get brutally honest about the choice for the next Bachelorette!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

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That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts with IHart Radio. This is part two of the almost famous podcast. We are breaking down the finale and everything about the finale. If you haven't listened to Part 1, you should.

It talks about the love story, the exits, the performance. proposals. It's really beautiful. But now we're going to talk about the live segment of the show, along with the Bachelorette announcement. Ashley, let's start with the live show, kind of the in-person meetings for the first time since. They went as well as you can, as we were talking about in the last episode. It's kind of nice that it ended the way it did between Daisy and Joey because there's just such a nice light-hearted rapport between them because it was like a lot of acceptance. When Daisy came out, it wasn't going to be like the, what happened, like, is what was I missing?

La, la, la, because she is the one who was like, I know that this isn't right. And then he was like, yeah, you're right. This isn't right. So then they just got to rejoin each other. And they really do seem to want the best for each other. So here is going to be my take that I don't even know if I, agree with, but I want and Justin and Rachel to comment on this

and to probably tell me I'm crazy. Okay? But it's something I did think about. It came through my head. This whole season we have been made to believe and also witnessed some really great people come through this show and leave this show.

But we've always had a connection on this show that felt like they far outweighed everybody else. Daisy and Kelsey and Joe. Like, you know, I think we would be If not every viewer said it has to be those two at the end. If not, that's going to be a shot.

So we always had this feeling that Daisy and Joey had this really deep, seated connection, that there's love there, that there was like a lot of heartfelt feelings there. And then they say goodbye to each other. I'm wondering if, like, it was really that real. There was really that heavy. How was it so easy then to move on? So my take is, yes, it's really great. that they're all together. I'm so happy they're happy for each other. I don't think,

I don't think that has anything to do with it. But it doesn't even seem hard for those two to be in the same room. And I know for me, in my experience, I, it was really hard to be in the same room as Joja. I did not enjoy that moment. It was really awkward for me, not because I didn't want to see her and I had like ill will towards her. It's like, this is, this is really heavy. And like, there's a lot of emotion here and a lot of experiences together. So why does it seems so easy. Was the connection maybe not as much as we were made to believe? Are they just different types of people than I am and a lot nicer and easier to go along with? Like, what's happening? Do you get what I'm saying? I think Daisy just had the closure she needed. And I think

a lot of the times, like after the final was can be really, really heavy. Because even though in our mind, we might think there's closure, like the other person might not feel the same way. And so sometimes I think that's why I get super tense. But I think she had months just going through being really close with Kelsey and just like kind of accepting it. So maybe that's why it seemed lighter. Yeah, it seemed like it was like, it was almost mutual, which, I mean, it wasn't, but it was. Yeah, I hate to be the naysayer here, but I'm kind of along with where your thought process has been, because even going from not only my experience, but like watching the show in general,

I feel like, you know, early on, right? When people get one-on-ones, it's like, oh, I'm so happy for you. And it was like when people are still playing that, oh, I'm so happy. It's like, no, you're not. Like, if you're actually interested in that person, you're not happy for them. You know what I mean? And you don't want to be perceived at this person that's like bitter or whatever. But it's like, if you really love someone and like, that's your girl, like, that's your guy.

Like, you're not happy to see them with somebody else. And so I don't know if it's a matter of the connection wasn't as strong as we were made to believe it was. or if she was, if Daisy was kind of mentally preparing herself for the worst, like, okay, I'm coming to grips with essentially this not being me and I'm okay with that now. You know, maybe she was, and I, you know, none of us can speak for her, but, you know, was it a matter of, you know, at this point, I don't know if house money is the right word, but it's, you want to be with him, but if it's not him, I'm also okay with that, right? Because on the other end, like if it was Kelsey, right, I don't, and Kelsey knew that it wasn't

her i don't think that she would have handled it the same way i think she would have been a lot more distraught than daisy was right so i don't know i'm kind of i was thinking the same thing honestly it's like it would be hard for it's ready to marry someone i don't care if it was andrew or gregg in that room like i would be supportive of course but like i wouldn't be holding their hand like riding in the car with them like you go buddy like i'd be like sit you know both girls were actually really supportive of like saying i want him to be happy and if his happiest is with the other one then i have to accept that and because i love him that much but i will say that was coming mostly from daisy yeah yeah i think in are you asking in the sense of like them being back in

the same room at afr like is that i think i think where we're going is like maybe just in general like it felt like it was so easy for daisy now and that's like and that's okay there's nothing wrong with that maybe she had time to have closure she kind of saw the writing on the wall she was able to grieve and kind of be like hey this isn't me or whatever it just felt easier than most seasons in a season where i expected it to be harder not because the two of them they don't like each other not because they're mad at joey just because what we were made to see on tv was that their connections were deeper than most seasons we've ever seen I think also your past dating experiences shape not only how you are, but how you like carry yourself because the fact that Jesse asked her at the end, and obviously we don't know like what happened, you know, if there were conversations about Bachelorette or not, but like even her saying I'm not, like I just need to focus on me. Like I'm happy and healthy right now and that's what's most important. Like I have so much respect for her to be able to come on that stage and just be like, I'm actually not like there because I've been in that place before where

you're like, I just have to like focus on me. And these are the things that are important. If it's health and happiness, I'm going to focus on this. And I know from experience like coming off the show, like people mourn the relationships they lost. So like I don't think it was as easy as like, okay, we're good. Like, you know, Daisy's probably, you know, back to her normal life immediately and Joey was probably just you know 100% in on Kelsey it's like he went from having two people that he was falling in love with to then being in one relationship and I'm sure that Joey had to mourn that relationship like I don't know if that was your experience when you were the bachelor but like you lose somebody that you really care about so there's like sadness in it

too but it has been a few months so I think that it's just like I think it's probably like a whole lot of things but mostly with daisy and joey i think everyone can admit they're like very mature well-rounded kind people is what it seems like so i feel like they probably both like rationally thought about like how is the best way to conduct myself like that's how i imagine they went into it it wasn't like let me lead with my emotions and like i want you know my like i need to be heard and i need my feelings validated like sometimes in a relationship like you don't get your relationship you don't get your feelings validated and you just the end is the end and it's like so unfortunate but so many people are like oh I need closure and I get that like I totally do but I think

they both were like this is not a scenario where you get like everything validated and full closure like Joey's in a new relationship and like I feel like they both just came in and we're like this freaking sucks and we had to mourn this loss but like we're both moving forward and maybe Daisy's not ready to date yet but she's like focused on her health and happiness so I think it was like a choice rather than like maybe how she they really felt it could also be a perspective thing well I do I think I think you can make a great point Susie it's like your past relationships also kind of you know determine how you're going to date in the future and then they both probably were like hey I still like you like you're still a good human I mean Rachel obviously

you sat in the seat as a bachelor like how good of a feeling would it would have been for you and maybe it did happen I don't remember but like you are sad you are confused there really is no closure on this show like i know it looks like there is but like you don't get the like intense conversation where it's like you know what i really did care about you i will always care about you you're going to always be a part of my life and my story and you know it just wasn't right between us and you get to kind of go back and forth for a bit and maybe even fight for a bit you don't get this on the show uh typically but it would have been the best thing in your life or in the for this season of life if your runner up would have

treated you the way Daisy treated Joey and just and and Joey vice versa back to Daisy but just to give you that like hey I know you're like I believe in you still like I still think you're great like this just didn't work out with us it would have felt so good and I did get that a lot with Jojo she was terrific to me but I just think it's right like it was a mature decision from both of them to say hey this is how we're going to do this thing I think that like just Daisy has a very special personality where she is just always going to be positive. And I think that because of what she went through health-wise, she does have a different perspective where she's like, well, if I'm healthy and I've got my family, then I'm going to be all good. Yeah, that's a really good

point because even being there like she just is so sweet and just so genuine like who you saw on stage is who she is off camera and i like completely agree with you ashley i feel like it wasn't for a camera or for anything she just genuinely is in a good place now and maybe that's why it was like such a good conversation yeah show me somebody that's been through through it in life and i want to learn from them i mean you know the people in life that haven't been through it are the people that, you know, usually don't have the wisdom, the perspective, the insight, as those who have gone through some heavy stuff. And the last, you know, two years for her has been really heavy. And so as she's coming out the other side of it, you know, healthier, just had this

crazy experience on this national, you know, show, got a lot of love and support. She's probably like, hey, like, yes, I have to, you know, I want to take some time for myself. But there's some really great things that have happened to me. And there's some things in my life that I've seen that are not important that I focused on the past, and I'm not going to focus on those things anymore. Like, I think she has a lot of wisdom and just her character, and it's something to learn from. I mean, I think, this was this whole conversation I meant to bring it to. It was like, we have a lot to learn, I think, for future contestants, also for us who've been on this show before to say, hey, if you want to handle this thing well, like, do it this way.

Because this is really beautiful in so many levels. And now, hopefully all these people can move on in happiness. And the thing that excites me the most for Joey and Kelsey right now is that they're going to show up to the day, show today, and good morning America and all those places that they'll go. And they won't have these crazy questions that will, like, put a wedge in between their relationship for a period of time. Instead, it's going to be about those two and what they're excited for. And not, oh, Joey, how sad are you, you know, that you had to say goodbye to Daisy last night? Like, they're going to sit there in confidence and be like, it sucked. it was awful but hey this is what i got now so that excites me to put the two of them i think

it's worth mentioning that i think um daisy feels liberated now after going through this experience with joey because she did feel so nervous dating with the cochlear implant and she did have this absolutely wrong sense but like understandable sense that she like wouldn't be accepted by men because of this disability and i think now she has a grown confidence. Well, she should. She's a catch. I don't think Daisy is going to hurt for male attention.

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I know. The body language, like we've said this whole time, just their season, the way it ended, I think they're in a really good place. I'm really, really excited to see what comes from both of them. Susie, I feel like you have skepticism. I don't. I think that I'm, well, if I'm being honest, I think I'm skeptical of like any relationship that comes off the show. I think it's so freaking hard. Plus, I don't think you really know the person like until you're in the real world with them for a significant amount of time. But that doesn't mean it's about them specifically. I just think in general, it's based on where I was and how much time you get to spend with the person, it's like you really don't know what you're getting yourself into. But I think that again,

like so many things in life it's a choice and like they put a ring on the finger and they decided to get engaged and I think if they want to make it work if they make the decision like hey we're going to work through whatever we face then they 1,000 percent can I just I just also think that it's a really tough position to be in so I don't know I think time will tell but I think that they are they're so cute together they seem very much in love but I think that I don't know and not that they're like listening right now as I say this but I'm like if there's any like you know thing I could share I would say like do what's best for you like don't let the pressure of the world like keep you in a relationship that you're not meant to be in but if

if you two love each other and you want to fight for it then I think that they can make it work no matter what I'm with Susie I think I have just like in a sense the exciting part happens now for me because I do think so many couples come out of this and they're very compatible. And they did have a really true story and a great love story form on the show. But when you get off the show, it is harder than any. I mean, the show's hard in some of ways. We also have a whole team of people keeping you there. Like you're not like leaving most of the time.

And, you know, you're going on these crazy cool dates. You're having these amazing memories and you're so excited for the next week when you travel to some new location. And there's so much keeping you there. I think the hard part happens now, you know, where you probably will start to go back to your normal jobs. You will move to a new city. You're going to have to figure out ways that you two like to entertain each other. There'll be really cool moments where you get invited to red carpets and cool events and opportunities that you've never dreamed of being invited to before. But those, that takes up, let's say, 20% of your life.

You know, there's 80% of your life still to be filled with this new partner. And I think that's where the real work starts. You have to kind of start redating each other. I think Jojo and Jordan are a great example of that, right? They very publicly said, we started over. Like, we did this whole, like, we had a really rocky time. We almost broke up. Like, we didn't know who we were.

And we finally said, if we're going to do this, we're going to do this. And I think that's my advice to them. And I do think, you know, either Joey or Kelsey will listen to this is start over and be okay with that. Like, you know, start anew and see where this takes you. Because it does get really hard now in a beautiful way. It's really hard like any relationship. Like, it's not like it's hard because it has more pressure, maybe. But every relationship is hard in its own way.

So you're just like a normal couple now in a lot of ways. Yeah. Susie, when did you feel with Clayton that like, oh, wow, I don't know this guy very well? I felt like at the end of the show, like everything. At the very end, I was like, I don't know you. I was like, I'm like, when it was time to make a decision of like, are we leaving together separate? it was very much like you either have to like leave together or not together it wasn't like there was no option to like say maybe so my brain was like I don't really know you like that's how I felt

at the end of the show like I was like I don't know you well enough to be like yeah let's make let's try to make this work um so I felt it at the very end even like when everything happened it was like you really don't know each other and you don't know me and like you get so little time I think people forget that like it seems like we've been watching for weeks but it's like it's so quick when you're there um and all the time you get is in little fractions and you're talking about things that aren't like things you would talk about i think when you're like in the real world dating because everything's exciting and positive around you so mostly um so i feel like i knew pretty early on that i was like oh we like don't really know each other and and then you and then you get into the real world like

post show in between the show airing and then it was was like, oh, we really don't know each other. Like, I feel like it was even more so we were like, oh, my gosh, like, we literally don't know anything about each other. That's how it felt for me. Rachel, I feel like you can relate with Tino. I mean, I was going to say I've never even experienced having a relationship post-show. Like, mine failed very, very early after filming.

But I think they're already at an advantage where I feel like a lot of couples, like Susie, you could probably relate. Like, when you come out and there's so much criticism, like, on the lead, on the season, and everyone has an opinion. And I feel like that really, really hurts couples. And I think they're going into the world with everyone loving Joey, like such a great support system behind the couple. And it really does feel like the show is moving towards more of like wanting to see success

and like nurture the couples in a way. Like I feel like Charity and Dotter are doing so well, Zach and Katie. So I mean, I've never been in the position, but I'm really hopeful for them going forward. I have a question. This is probably more towards Rachel, but chime in, if any of you guys can relate. How did you go from being like, I love you and being so sure of it to Tino to having that realization of being like, oh my gosh, I said I love you to someone I don't know. I don't know. Like for me, like I felt it. I felt like I was in love and I truly believed it up until we had like really, really actually been. big issues and that's when it started to like come into place where I'm like wait like maybe like I'm going to stop saying that for a little but like coming off the show like I genuinely believed it but I'm also like so delusional and like I buy into it so hard you're such a Pisces yeah my take is

so bad so like I think Susie might have a better answer on that one oh I don't know I think well I think for me it happened when I was still on it like I said earlier it happened when I was show because I was like in the law well land of it all like the falling in love and everything's romantic and fun but I did always think like okay we haven't had to fight like we like you learn so much about somebody when you fight with them and like how they treat you when you fight and how you like communicate during arguments like that says so much about somebody's character and I was I remember thinking on the show is like not that I wanted to fight but that was like what is conflict it's going to look like because everything is happy and positive and so i don't know i i don't think i

said i love you when i was still on the show i just was like falling in love and then by the end i was like oh i think i need to take a step back and like reassess how does justin fight he's sassy he's sassy you know the thing is yeah he's sweet too yeah you know he's very sweet Did you guys fight as friends before you got together? No, actually. He said to me, this was so funny. He said to me, I can't imagine what we would fight about. I was like, oh, let me tell you.

I was like, oh, we're going to fight. I'll find something. You guys are so cute. You know, I think going through the show, I was like such a realist, maybe to a full, I don't know, maybe to a detriment. I don't know, but I feel like a lot of times, even when it got down to the wire and they, I'd be in ITMs and they're like asking, you know, they want you to be in this like la la, like, I'm so I love. And I remember saying, like, we haven't faced any adversity. And that's a huge thing to me because in past relationships, as Susie mentioned, that has been a huge, like, turning point of like, okay, we do not communicate well when things aren't great.

And so going into my experience on the show, that's something that I looked for, not that I wanted to fight with Katie, but I was like, this is a real life. right like this is not a microcosm of what life is going to be um but yeah that's that's what i was going to say but i think we communicate really well and i am sassy he is sassy but he actually he like also is very good with his words and you can communicate very well which is super important yeah yeah you want to find healing i think you can be sassy like you got to get your words out there but you don't want it to like hurt the other person and i think i think you know with every in any relationship, I think when, because not a relationship is going to be perfect, like you're going to argue, you're going to have disagreements, right? But I think as long as you're going into those

conversations or disagreements with the goal to seek resolution and not to just like hurt each other or like get the last word or win, that's what propels relationships. Because if you can, you can disagree, but then come to a resolution and find ways to get better for your partner moving forward. I think that's what it's all about. So I don't know where Kelsey and Joe we're at. I'm sure they've, you know, their, their disagreements have probably been based heavily on the premise of the show and what they've seen thus far. But like you said, Ben, like now the real work starts where everyone's rooting for them, right? And they're going to have these cool experiences, but they're also finally getting to experience real life together in the public

and doing them, right? And so I hope, and I feel like they're both very mature, level-headed people. So, yeah, interested to see, you know, how they work through things. But I think, you know, we're all rooting for him. So how about the wild moment where you wake up the next day and you're like, hey, what's your birthday? What's your middle name? And can I get your phone number? It was so true.

Again, being a real, and maybe this wasn't like, maybe I didn't have a realistic expectation of the show, but I remember being on my like hometown, which was in New Mexico because it was still COVID, so it wasn't really a hometown. But we were on this horse drawn carriage. and I remember Kate and I were talking about something and she was like, what state are you from again? And I was like, you're, I'm such a detail-oriented person to those things, like, I'm like, yeah, I understand that.

He was like, it's an M-State, right? I was like, Maryland. He was like, oh, I didn't know if it was like Maine or Massachusetts. I was like, maybe we aren't where are we. I know, I'm like, maybe we're. Yeah, but it's like, I mean, I know you had a lot of people to, but I'm like, little things like that matter to me. So I'm like, yeah.

Okay, Rachel, you were in the audience last night. Tell us what happens during commercial break. There was so much Bachelor alum there. So many Bachelor alumni, alum, I don't know when you say the difference. I mean, like, was there any drama? Or like, what do you mean? Well, I don't know. Yeah, if you're starting out like that, was there any drama?

I don't know. First, how about you run through all the alumni that you remember being there? and then all the kind of any dynamics that stood out. Um, okay, so they had, it was me and Gabby, and then we were next to Gary and Trisa. And then behind us, it was a lot of, um, women from Joey's season, which I was really surprised. I didn't know if they normally bring back so many women, especially Rachel being there. I remember being like really shocked. I'm like, either is she going to get a hot seat or I wouldn't really want to be there in that

situation. But Rachel was there. I think Leia, Lexi. Lauren, and then Oh, and Autumn. Then Maria. And Maria. Yeah. And Maria was behind me. And then

there was like a couple guys from charity season. There was Sean, John B. Tanner. Oh, and John Henry. They were all there. I felt like they were really. That was all kind of random. Yeah. It was a definitely an interesting choice of alumni in the audience.

And then with Golden Bachelor, we saw, of course, Kathy and Susan. They are just, they must have like an expense card right now for the show. They are everywhere. They have the podcasts. They have the Warner podcast. They're the best.

They are awesome, but they are everywhere. I think how they've been at every event for the last year is impressive and exhausting. They're carrying this franchise on their back. And they're the best. They come up and they try to take a selfie with every single person. And I love it.

Like, they are just the best. They are hilarious. Okay, I guess maybe a more direct question based on Ashley's question would be. When they announced the next Bachelorette, did you get us, did you look back at Maria and that she seemed disappointed? So I cheated and I asked Charity and Charity told me. So I already kind of knew that it was happening. But I did find it interesting that Jen wasn't even. in the audience like they had rachel and maria and daisy did that tip you off that it wasn't them

before you talk to charity no because i feel like for a lot of the other maybe i'm wrong because i know me and gabby were in the audience but yeah i was trying to think back i thought it was weird that she wasn't in the audience rachel when you were not did you did you know ahead of time when you were in the audio you had no clue no you didn't know you were the bachelorette no i did it i swear to god and i thought i kept asking them because i was like if you bring me out there and you put me next to gabby and you call gabby up there like i will be so angry so just like tell me not even that i'm angry it's gabby but like that's you're doing it to embarrass me so i remember we both went out there and then i started thinking maybe it was like a michelle and katy situation but yeah no they didn't tell us at all

And I remember asking because I was like, I need to quit my job. Like, they didn't tell me anything. I had to do that all after. Yeah, because we were like, we were wondering, because Jesse kept on being like, could it be this lady? Right. And I'm like, that's going to be crazy if they bring Daisy up. And then it's like, Maria, you know? But that's what they did.

But they basically did that. That was so crazy because he was like, where you have to announce the next Bachelorette. Daisy come to the stage, dot, dot, dot, and explain why you're not going to be the Bachelorette. that was wild No but it wasn't brutal because it's very well I'm sorry guys I got some inside scoop on this situation so I'm going to have to reveal it

I have known from multiple sources over the past couple of I'll say a week that it wasn't going to be Daisy Daisy did not want it that's why they had her come up and explain she did not want it they had really tried to get her on board.

And she was just like, it is not in my personality. I do not want to deal with this. I cannot dump people. I don't want to be. I cannot have this on my conscience. Like, this is just not made. This is not a role made for me. And I think that she kind of, I mean,

she said that it was because she wasn't ready to date. But I promise you guys, they wanted to have her in that role. And she did not want it. Did Maria deny it too? So my source is about Maria. I have fewer sources about Maria. I'll say what I, I'll say things if they get, I, I don't, I, I, I, I have heard, I know, I have

heard that they were concerned that Maria would be too much of a handful, production wise. Okay. Now, if that is the case, I still think they messed up royalty, royally. I think that no matter how difficult she was going to be to produce, to control, whatever you want to call it, that was going to be your million dollar ticket, your billion dollar ticket. That was going to keep the franchise on this high that we have. Everybody wanted it to be Maria. When I was at Audrey's yesterday, so at our coffee shop, we had a big watch party.

There was like over 100 people there. And at the beginning of the night, I said, who do you want to be there? The Bachelorette, and I heard there was, it was just a booming sound of Maria. Well, at that point, they didn't know who was going to be the runner-up. So that's why second place wasn't like an option as Bachelorette in the audience. But everybody said Maria. And then I heard from Jared that later in the night, when they announced that it was Jen, everybody was like, whoa.

No matter what, Jen was like, plus. 15,000 in Vegas to be a bachelorette, like out of nowhere. You and I said, remember when she got eliminated, we're like, if she got eliminated a little bit further down the road and Maria and Daisy and Kelsey weren't part of this cast, Rachel? Then, then, yeah, Rachel, then, yeah, she'd have a shot. But she has no shot.

I mean, Rachel was like, okay, if it's not Daisy, if it's not Maria, then in my mind, it's like, it's Rachel. And if it's not Rachel, then they're pulling out, like tons of stops not because there's anything wrong with jim like there is nothing i'm going to see here and be like terrible choice bad choice whatever i thought she was hilarious i thought we didn't see enough of her i said that but we don't like there is there we don't know her like and traditionally you know the the familiarity from the audience to the contestants based on their social media following it's a great you know way to quantify how much people know

with the contestants. Jen wasn't even close. Or at least feel like they know them, yeah. Not because she's not a good choice, not because she's not going to be entertaining or whatever. We just don't know her. Now, I will make a comparison here, and it's somewhat accurate.

I look this up. It's somewhat accurate, but we'll be shocked, I think, at maybe going back to that time. You know whose only other announcement kind of feel similar to this? You can say Hannah Brown. Hannah Brown Hannah Brown

Shocker for everybody Nobody knew her She got out on stage And fumbled over her words And everybody's like What are they doing, right? If you remember her first time on camera It was like

I knew Had it in my bones I was like This girl's gonna be a rock star Have faith in her But if you go back to that moment You watch her interview After the final rose

You're like She can't even talk Like We don't know her Who is she? What are we doing? She was just involved In some drama

On the season And then now she's the Bachelorette and look where we're at now. So I'm saying like there's a lot of hope here. There probably isn't a lot of excitement. But I think when it comes to this season, it could be a shocker of how popular it is and we'll all forget that we didn't really know, Jen, on The Bachelorette.

We're getting some incoming news that Daisy's also currently in another relationship. She might be rekindling things with a former flame. We also, I also need to say, that these sources of mine told me that it was going to be Jen this week and I was like no way but also kind of in belief

because I kind of believe because I knew Daisy didn't want it but then I also thought that perhaps Maria would not be the easiest of choices for production Oh I thought it would be great it would be wild

Oh but they would hate it but the audience would love it. Look I get I think the Bachelor production needs to appeal and accommodate for the audience's wishes. That's what they did with Joey and that worked so well.

I think this is a big mistake to not go with Maria not and this is of course not to say anything bad about Jen nothing bad about Jen but I was shocked and then when and yesterday when it actually was announced I was also

my jaw still dropped. I couldn't I was like wow. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect.

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podcast or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello Ed. From a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So like it's not what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. Well, 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the Eye Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so for our guests here, Justin, I want you to start. What are your thoughts? Like, we've all shared our opinions here, but I want to hear everybody's thoughts on what's going on.

Yeah. I think it's even bigger of a fumble if there isn't a paradise this year, because I feel like you got to get Maria back on screen somehow. Yeah. It is so frustrating. Obviously, we've all been through, but even like now as a viewer, I feel like it's frustrating because it's like, okay, just when the franchise was back on a good trajectory, it's like people are telling you what they want.

And it's so frustrating if they don't listen. Yes. And I understand there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that, you know, we're privy to, but there's stuff that we're not even privy to. I mean, you guys, some of you guys were leads. But I feel like you got to figure it out, right? And I even said, you know, because Susie thought it was. was going to be Maria. I thought it would be Daisy. And part of me was like, I don't like the personality

is fun. It's exciting, whatever. But like I don't know if she makes for good like for what does. And I'm thinking from the production standpoint. I understand. From it like we want to see Maria, right? But from a show standpoint, like she doesn't fit that mold that they want. But that's kind of the problem. Right. Like I feel like they got to break out of that mold. Why do they want that mold so bad? Because like, don't they want a Caitlin Bristow again? I just am so confused because then I would say that Hannah Brown is also the closest relation to a Caitlin Bristow. And those are your two, like, most monumental, like, seasons. Right.

I'm like, that's what people want good TV. They don't want, like, just boring, bland, you know, whatever. So, I don't know, my take, I feel like on the gen pick, and I don't want to sound, like, I think, I think it's great. I think I'm rooting for it. I hope she's, you know, surprised us. We don't know her. that's probably not to her fault.

They just didn't show her personality. She seems like she has a lot to offer. So I think she's going to make for a good bachelorette. I think it's interesting, though, and maybe I might be looking too deep into it. I think it's great that she is the first Asian bachelorette. So to have that representation is huge. And I think she's going to put on for a lot of people.

And that's amazing. It was interesting to see, I don't know if you guys saw that the preliminary cast was released, which Noah's brother is in there, which I think is... Whose brother? Noah Herb?

Oh, Noah's actual brother. I saw somebody in the comment saying, like, Noah's, like, twin, or I was like, oh. So, like, yeah, he looks like Noah. Oh, he's actual brother. Oh, cool. That's, it's so funny. But I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it,

but if you look at the cast, and again, it's not finalized, I don't think, but there is zero Asian representation. And so I'm thinking, you know, And I don't know how much say you get. You know, I know they asked Joey in one of the interviews he did. There's a lot of brunettes. Like, is that your preference?

Is that what you asked for? And so I don't know what Jen's dating preferences are. But it was just interesting to see that there was like your first Asian bachelor, there's no Asian representation in the cast. It was I don't know. I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it. But it's like, okay, so was that like kind of a scramble pick last minute? I think it's a scramble book.

Right. I really think that they were going to, they were going to, They thought they were going to convince Daisy. And I mean, who knows? Who knows with the Maria thing? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not about Maria being like any sort of diva or whatnot. Because Lauren, who is, you know, her closest friend from the season, said that Maria declined the role as well.

But Maria just does. I can't believe that because Maria just doesn't seem to have the personality to decline that role. Why would she, especially with so much support behind her? I want to hear. I do want to hear Susie and Rachel takes on this too Justin, that's a great point

and it's one that maybe they're maybe now they'll recast a little bit like that's been a thing that's what I'm thinking announce a Bachelorette it's kind of a shocker they recast

we'll not see some of the people they bring liminary announced but don't they start filming like in a week? I think it's less than a week yeah like tomorrow like aren't they like going at it on Wednesday? Okay yeah Susie

I want to hear your take, then we'll get to Rachel, and then Ashley and I will kind of close because I do have some thoughts, and I do have some weird feelings based on Jen's appearance last night, too, on the show, like kind of the jokes and some of the weird stuff. I just, I have some questions. That was a weird joke. Okay, so my thoughts, like breaking down everything we just discussed, I think Daisy was such an obvious pick because she appeals like she was such a fan favorite people loved her um her denying it or not wanting to be in it or possibly like rekindling a relationship taking her out um

i think we we drew the comparison of like everybody wanted joey and so they pick joey but joey also is like a production dream you know he seemed i mean from what i know he seems like somebody that is like easy going kind considerate going to treat people around him with consideration and, you know, humble and like all of those things. So yes, he was what the people wanted, but he also was production's dream where I'm like, Marie is what the people want, but I don't know that she's a production dream. So she's not safe. Yeah, she may not be safe, which is exciting.

And again, I think it's like one of those moments, which I don't want to say as a fumble, because for all we know, Jen is about to be the most iconic bachelorette, like, ever. So we can't speak before we know, but we just. We just don't know. We haven't seen enough of her. I'm hopeful. Obviously, she is stunning. And from what we hear, she's like, sweet, kind, funny, witty, all the above.

But I think that this is my hot take and not trying to be too big for my britches, but I think that production thinks they can create like a Caitlin Bristow, a Hannah B to point out. Like I think that they think, oh, we take this person and we can maybe shape them and mold them and, like, give the people what they want. But what the people want is, like, an authentic person. Like, people don't want a curated version of, like, a previous bachelorette where they're like, oh, go be the empowered this. Go, go give, like, a tough line.

Like, I think production is maybe thinking, oh, we can, like, curate people to be what we want. But the reason why people love Joey is because he was authentic. And it's the same reason why people loved Caitlin and Hannah and, like, everybody that's just so, like, authentically like, Rachel Rechia. I know. I'm looking at Rachel too. You guys, no, you guys were incredible bachelorette. Yes. No. And you should have had your own season. What I would have loved to have you have your own season. Well, I was, yeah. Yeah. I was going to say like just like kind of to go off what Susie said in a way too, though, like trying to make someone. Like I think a lead, like they all the time just pick random people to be leads. Like I feel like Katie was like kind of a choice that I didn't see coming like Clayton. They don't.

really care like what the audience thinks like and in a way the lead is kind of just like there and the show is about the cast kind of in a way and i think with me and gabby season why everyone considers it like such a big huge like failure it sucks was because the whole season was about me and gabby and me and gabby had all the screen time when we were on screen crying where like the seasons that do well it's like the cast has drama and it's a good cast so i think the lead is kind of just there in a way and that might be like a weird take but I don't know I feel like they don't carry the season as much as like the contestants too I don't know I felt like Joey really carried this season you just was everything we wanted to watch and when I keep referring to like

duds the past I'm sorry but I'm thinking about Clayton and Zach particularly because those were two bachelors that we really never asked for at all well Clayton had a good season it was dramatic yes you girls actually carried that season yeah

so I guess it's up to the season but i agree with rachel in the sense that like joey's girls yeah while like they were also incredible cast incredible cast yeah like i i agree with rachel as well like i think the cast makes it um and i don't know if they just don't air it or whatever but like i feel like we all we go off of a feel like joey seems like an incredible person right and that's just a feeling we get from what he emotes it's it's what we hear from all the girls so it's like joey's a good person right But we really didn't get to know that much about him when you think about it. All I walk away knowing is like, my biggest fear is that the person I choose is a good one.

That's all I know about him. You know what I mean? So it's like the cast is it. Like I don't know anything about him. I don't know. I think what we have to. I think let's agree on it being probably a perfect combination of both. Yeah.

And, yeah, yeah, that's that's probably like the lead has to facilitate good. Like he was great in one-on-one. But you need him to be likable. He just had this radiated, he radiated likeability. So it is a combination of both, but without a good cast, you got nothing. And I would point out to Rachel saying her season was failure. I don't think it was at all. I think there was a lot of variables in everybody's time that's sitting here on this call when the show was not doing well.

And I think there's a lot of variables to why it was not like getting the viewership that may be past seasons received. I don't know if it was at any level the leads or the lack of leads. I do think there were some of your choices, especially when it comes to the Bachelor and Bachelor, or The Bachelor. But, Rachel, the best response that you ever had and to go to Susie's point is your authenticity. Like, yes, you say it showed you crying a lot. I also think that brought the viewership in a lot. Like, I think, yes, there was like memes and jokes, because that's what people do when they watch the show. But that's also a response.

So any response is positive for the show, good or bad or indifferent. But what people really related to and what they wanted to respond to was your moments of authenticity. Who were you going to be? What were you going to put together in perfect all the time? No, because that's not who humans are when they date. And so I do think there was that like pull towards your season of the show and probably did as best as it possibly could, given the variables we were you speaking of because of just you and Gabby being able to be. be who you were like unfiltered uncut together like causing chaos and trying to find love like that's beautiful i do think in all of this i hope that authenticity is allowed from jinn we don't know

her we don't know her at all right and again that's like as jesson was saying it's not her fault but last night when she sat up on stage it felt like she was fed lined that she would not have said on her own. And here's the thing. I don't know her, so I don't know if she's like susceptible to being, you know, with that input or what. I hope somebody gets in her ear here soon. And it's like 24 hours, I guess. Some pass lead and says, Jen, you're great. You're incredible. You're obviously funny. We saw some moments of you on this show, right? Like they tried to make another joke on live television of you making a joke in the past. Like, Be yourself.

Like, never sacrifice yourself for the sake of what they're telling you to do. Because if you do, this show is going to tune you up and spit you out real fast. But put your foot down now. You're incredible who you are. You've been chosen. They're not choosing anybody else. Be yourself because people are going to most love you if you're yourself and you have the best shot of finding love on this show.

But last night, I will say, threw a red flag up for me when it got really weird and really awkward on live TV and it felt like she was being fed lines that was she used. would not have said naturally, and I'm like, I hope this is not a marker for the rest of the season. For her sake, really. Yeah, Susie, even, I remember, like, it felt kind of weird. And again, we don't know her. So maybe this is her. But even the whole, like, shot o'clock thing, we were like, oh, like trying to make fun. And so it was just like maybe, I mean, she, I'm sure she is fun and funny, but it's like, it felt like production knew like, okay, they don't know anything about her. Like, let them know you're fun and you drink. You know, it's like, you take shots.

I'm sure that probably is her, but it's like... Yeah. But yeah, it's like, I think that's where I'm just like, just let her be her. Like, don't try to like sculpt her into any previous anything because that's when she'll be successful. Yeah. Yeah, it was so awkward. And Ben, I think you're referring to the line where she said I'm looking for a big, big, big, big, big, big personality. It's like...

Yeah. And before we move on completely to that, Rachel, I just wanted to let you know that you two are beloved, your cast sucked. Yeah. Okay, so you're actually, this is like a whole, this is a case in point. Your cast,

I don't remember one man from it besides Tino and then whatever the name of the guy that, that she chose, that guy, he chose. I have no idea. I'm sorry, forget his name already.

So. Yeah. No. It wasn't, it was a very miserable, well, I mean, they were great.

They were great. But I just think no one really know, like they didn't know how to do the season. there was just like so many variables but I was just saying I think people grew to dislike me and Gabby more just because we were on screen so much always because they needed you on screen because the other guy's yeah because there was no drama in the house like at all the boys didn't fight about a single thing because they didn't care about me and Gabby so why would they fight each other but yeah interesting season definitely agree with the Jen thing though as well um but I will say like the only thing I could think of is like I think in that moment Jen or like any lead you feel so lucky to be chosen in that moment and I think they always kind of dangle over you like Maria's in the audience like Daisy's here like it might not be you like we're saying it's you but it could always change so maybe she was just trying to like appease in that

moment of like this splashy like thing that people are going to talk about and like you said hopefully she just is able to be more of herself on her own season yeah that's hope I think you're right yeah again I go I wanted to be clear your first interaction on live television is not one we're going to judge off of. I'm not going to be like, I can't even watch this season because Jen's going to be ripping shots and making weird dick jokes the whole time. Like, no, I don't think that's what's going to happen.

But I just think you're first, like, we can't, because of Hannah Brown, right? Or like, I'm sure you, Rachel, like, you're so nervous, you're so excited. You're so weirded out by this whole thing. You're like, I'll do whatever just to get offstage and start this thing. So it's a season that I'm excited for. I don't think she's a bad choice. I don't think she, I think she's an unpopular choice.

I don't think we'll end her season and be like, cannot believe they chose Jen. Like, I don't think it's going to be a case. I don't think it's going to feel like some bachelors of pass or like, that never really made sense. I have two more comments before we wrap this very long episode up. Sorry, guys.

One, I think there's a good promising, there's promise that there's going to be a bachelor in paradise. I don't think that it's going to happen in the traditional. timeline, but I think it will happen, especially with so many beloved characters from Joey's season and because I think they want Maria to be the queen of something, just something in which she's not the actual leader. What do you guys think about that? Not happening. Nope. Okay, fine. Well, my sources also tell me that they're looking for another spot to shoot the show.

You really don't think that Paradise is going to happen ever again, Ben? Wait, a new spot for Paradise or like the new mansion? No, for, um, a paradise spot because apparently the paradise spot was bought out by somebody and they can't use that Mexico spot anymore. Ben, why are you such a pessimist? I just don't think it's going to happen this year. I said not in the traditional timeline. I think it's going to happen again. At some point the next five years, will there be a paradise? I'm sure. Yes. He wants Jared in my origin place to be destroyed. When I'm 40 years old, there might be a paradise. No, you're being sassy. Okay. He's being sassy. Are they announcing a golden

bachelor? Yes, that is my next point. Seems as if Kelsey's dad is going to be on the next season of the Golden Bachelorette. They're supposed to say this? Well, I don't know. I'm like saying things with confidence that I shouldn't be. But guys, they showed

that man so many times in the audience and I was like, that is such an attractive man. Like, that is such an attractive older man. Wow. And I wasn't even thinking about him. being on the golden bachelorette. I was thinking like, make this man the next golden bachelor.

And then when they said at the end, they said, I don't know, when they wrapped up with Kelsey's dad, Jesse said, maybe we'll be seeing more of you in the future, something, blah, blah, blah. And then his son nudged him and it was all giddy for a moment. Did you guys pick up on that? I didn't hear that. Oh, it was said. He was like, we'll be seeing, hopefully we'll be seeing more of you soon or something.

like that and then there was a nudge and then there was smiles exchange knowing smiles i was like looking for something like that and i didn't because i maybe we missed yeah maybe i missed i don't know all i want is that man to not get chosen to be the the the fiancee the husband and i want him to be the next golden bachelor that man is if he's wanting to yeah he's wanting to because i didn't know it's still recent and i still don't know whether i would ever want to date again but those are my personal insights oh my gosh hey uh susy just and rachel

we're really glad you came on thanks for joining us today for the finale breakdown of joey's season it was a very successful season and i would say a really enjoyable season to talk about there's a lot of good that came from this season a beautiful love story um some incredible cast members uh i feel like the franchise is back at a good place and i hope it continues so now we look forward

to jen's season of the bachelorette the announcement of the Golden Bachelorette, the show is rocking and rolling, and some of Bachelor Nations favorites have joined us today on the Almost Famous Podcast, and we appreciate all of you. Thank you so much. Bye, guys.

And we love you. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHard Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junk, and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA.

Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell, and the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzle.

with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers believe in. I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. To give you the answers and you still blew it. The puzzler. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.