The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Mormon Wives “Villains” Demi & Bret Engemann

Episode Date: March 14, 2026

Amy & TJ are getting down and REAL with “Secret Lives of Mormon Wives” stars Demi and Bret Engemann. From what their 16-year age-gap relationship is REALLY like, to how they’ve coped with mental health issues in their marriage, Demi and Bret are laying it all out in this raw conversation. And yes…we’re talking fruity pebbles.  Plus, is Demi done with “Secret Lives” forever?? *Note: This episode contains content that some listeners might find disturbing. This episode discusses suicidal ideation.  Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember, 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime.

988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart podcast awards are happening. Live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display.

Thank you so much. Iheart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Pacific free at veeps. Or the Veeps app. Ago Wodam is your host for the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards

Live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life

and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom, and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. You know Roll Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG.

But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you.

I was a spy. Listen to The Secret World of Roll Doll on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses suicide. Please proceed with caution. Hey there, everybody. Welcome to I do Part 2.

It's your host. You're sometimes hosts, I guess. We rotate a lot here. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes. And we are so excited because we have our next two guests in person with us at the IHeard Studios. We're going to be talking divorce, marriage, reality, TV and of course, well, I hate to mention it, but we have to go there.

At least one question on fruity pebbles. From the secret lives of Mormon wives. It is to me and Brett who need no introduction. How are y'all today? Good. How are you? Thanks for having us. Why did y'all immediately laugh at that? I'm glad you said it. I'd be worried some of y'all might throw water in our case. You were sweating a little bit.

But I'm the only one in the room who wasn't. but it's good to see you guys in person. My goodness. And again, everybody that comes on this podcast means they didn't get it right the first time around. Both of you all, second marriage for both of you. Let me ask this. What did the show do for your relationship being on Mormon-wise?

Can I ask that? What impact did it have on you? We were just talking about last night. I mean, it strengthened us like you can't believe. Am I too far away? Yeah, it strengthened us. It put us in a lot of situations that you don't, typically anticipate being obviously you know you're in a reality TV show there it's reality TV but

there are a lot of things that are you know they kind of contrive that put you in challenging situations and so but yeah we've we've grown so much closer and um just we've had to kind of up the game in terms of just communicating because when you're in the again back to reality TV the lines of reality can become so blurred and so really making sure that you communicate clearly becomes totally crucial increasingly so I think yeah no agreed I we literally were just having a conversation last night after seeing Whitney on Broadway we were just talking about the whole experience you know it's all been so fast-paced and crazy more like we're sitting here in New York watching Whitney on Broadway they started with the dance like this is wild

and like a swinging scandal and we're just sitting there talking about where we were to where we are and our fertility struggles and just everything and And finding that silver lining in how much stronger our relationship is today than it was before all of this. And I think that's rare. And we were like, what is that? What's the component? And we said communicating, communicating and being able to speak freely to each other and genuinely seeking to understand one another. And I think it's like, really, like, we kind of pat ourselves on the back because I'm like, that's so, I mean, we've been, this isn't our first rodeo, as we, you know, said.

before, but we've learned the lessons along the way and we genuinely put in the work. And at the end of the day, like, relationships are not about it being perfect all the time. It's about how you handle those struggles and how you communicate and work through them. So I'm just, I'm proud of us for the way that we have weathered so many different storms together. Have we ever gotten that answer before that, yeah, reality TV was good for my relationship. No, no. We've never heard that. In fact, that, that was actually very surprising.

I was not expecting it, but is it, would you say because, and look, we have watched some of the show a couple of the different seasons, but it's jumped out to us that even when you're not on camera and you're not being shown, you're constantly being talked about. I mean, to me and even Brett, comes out of everyone's mouths at least in every scene. I was like, this is remarkable to be talked about that much on a show that. that you kind of pulled back from a little bit. I'm curious, is it kind of an us versus them mentality where you all felt like maybe you were being attacked together? So it kind of strengthened you all to hold down your own personal relationship while other people were attacking it.

Yeah, a little bit. I also just think that it uncovered so many wounds for both of us that, and we were implementing. so many incredible tools on the side, right? Like therapy and so many different modalities that helped us navigate it. And as those things were uncovered, I feel like we both are pretty introspective and, you know, self-aware.

And we both would be like, okay, what is this kind of stirring up in us? And what is this really at the root? And so as we would have things come up and wounds and triggers and trauma, we would kind of turn like either to our therapist or to each other and be like, okay, I know that your intentions are good. I know your heart is good. So what's really coming up? And we would face that head on.

Like genuinely when I say that we both put in the freaking work day in and day out. And I think, yes, I think to answer your question, I think it did be kind of, you know, come to a point where it was like this is us together. We're not fighting each other. It's us against the problem. And I honestly think that's how we've gotten through. Yeah, the other thing is that it's funny because you learn to kind of understand that the things that people are talking about, for the most part, they're controversial or that might be, make you uncomfortable or make you feel bad about yourself. All of those things, for the most part, are fictional things, if that makes sense. Like the things that they're hating about, you know, to me, I mean, fictional things.

I mean, it's almost like she's become a fictional villain. And so it's like learning how to separate, you know, myself from that, I think, has been just learning how to separate myself from what is real and what is not. Just kind of learning that most of the things that are controversial are fictional. In reality TV. Or that people aren't getting the full picture, right? And people will say that. you see the sound minds online that are like, guys, this is a show. Remember, like, these are people, there's nuances, there's context that's missing, and everyone

knows that. It's like, we want to protect this thing, and it's like, at the end of the day, it's entertainment. It's a show. And you're not getting the entire full picture. Is the drama real? Sure. Are the storylines real? Yeah, for the most part.

But there's context missing. There's things missing, and you're not getting the full picture of who I am day in and day out, who he is, how our relationship is. And so I think, you know, the sound minds understand that. And so, you know, then you're able to just take a step back and not take it as personally. But the sound mind seem few and far away. Especially in that space, right? I wish more sound minds would speak up.

Because people will come up and they're like, there's more people behind you than you know. And I'm like, where are those people? They can't be heard. Yeah. They're getting shouted down. Speak louder. By the crazies. But you talk about separating, though.

Brett, but you're still a dude who loves his wife. And there are people saying things. about your wife that are wrong and awful. How are you, maybe even if you don't say something on social media, say something, how internally even do you keep your heart rate from going up? Have you been able to- It's been a process, yeah. I mean, it's been a learning process, but it goes back to just separating what's real

from what's not. And like literally, when they're talking about her, when I read the things that they say, it's like, I just have to say that is a completely fictional person that they're talking about. Otherwise, I mean, I just want to light the world on fire. That's his Achilles heel, honestly. Like when I get brought up, I mean, it's the same way for me, too. Like, I get so fired up when I see them talking about him. And I'm like, if you knew the kind of man this man is and dad and husband and just friend and in general, like, I get emotionally just charged.

I'm like, don't talk about him that way. And then I read about me and it's like, this page, da, da, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, eh, whatever. I know my truth. I know my truth. I'm curious, though, because I actually, we talked about this in another episode for me personally in my life. And we've told you guys when we walked in, we were divorced twice, so we know what it's like

to go through relationship breakups and heartache and in front of the public. Yeah. But some of the hardest breakups for me have been with female friends. Like relationship-ending situations have been the most traumatizing for me with my other girlfriends. How have you navigated that? She dreams about it every night. Not about these friendships necessarily, but it definitely does like trigger old friendships. So yeah, it can feel harder than a breakup. And I don't know. I lost, you know, my best friend at

the same time that I lost my ex-husband. And I was kind of mourning both relationships. But I definitely was like dreaming about my ex-best friend every single night thinking of about that stewing over it far more. And maybe it's because my ex-husband was still in my life and we were co-parenting. And like the other friend, it was just like gone. I don't know, but that felt way harder. Are you talking about Jesse? No, no, no.

This is a past relationship. Like a past, dear, dear childhood friend. Sorry, we got Jesse on the brain. I know, clearly, clearly. No, no. I mean, it's, yeah, you get close. You get close really quickly in this environment and you're working day and and day out together.

And so you build that friendship, but there's a level to it that's almost like foe, because it's so quick. It's almost like when someone love bombs you, and it's like, oh, wait, and then you take a step back and you're like, oh, that wasn't real. And I'm not saying that the friendships weren't real, but it's like when you take a step back like I have and you look at it, it's like, I barely knew that person. Like, I really went all in on someone. And there that's, like, problematic that I don't want in my life.

And, you know, I know she feels the same. So I just, yeah, for me, I think taking a step back was the healthiest thing for me because I was able to really look at everything for what it was. And I'm like, there's a lot of red flags there that I was kind of missing because we were forced into this environment together. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, friendship breakups are hard. I can speak to that. But I'm navigating it well. And, like, really, anytime I hear anyone from the cast say anything, I'm just like, it really, it really holds.

holds no weight to me. I'm like, I don't know. You're playing a part and you're doing it well, but yeah. I don't get that. I don't know how you can separate. Can I ask, are you consider yourselves genuine friends with the other cast members or do you consider them like coworkers? Sometimes you have good days and we gotta show up together and we gotta perform. Seriously, I ask, are they genuine friends? Both. I have genuine friendships in the group. in the group and then there's some that I have genuinely tried to build friendships with that,

you know, it's like our relationship, back to what I was saying earlier, that in a relationship, in a working relationship where you're genuinely trying to build upon it, there has to be you seeking to understand that person. You have to, you know, understand the nuances in the context, and you have to forgive, like people are going to mess up. And I feel like I extended that, in multiple areas to people and then I would like do something or say something and it was like boom you're done cut off whatever and

for me it's just it wasn't reciprocated in a few of the relationships and then you have the other relationships where you both have done each other dirty and you're walking this path and it's complicated and you give each other grace and those are my people and so those are the people that I am friends with

and genuinely have relationships outside of filming and then you know I think most everyone in the cast would say that majority of the friendships are business at this point yeah that makes a lot of at least at least they're honest though yeah I mean in reality TV it's kind of unique too because it's like when there's something like you have a grudge against somebody it's almost like they want to hang on to that because they understand especially the further you get into you know being on a reality TV show they want to have that kind of like as fodder you know or like back their story or to make

their story more compelling. So they, it's like they hang on to these grudges where like, that's like, for me, I try to give them a little bit of grace, because constantly I'm thinking, people cannot be this ridiculous. Because it makes them relevant. Totally. Makes them relevant. And with her, it's like, it keeps them away from, everybody's so scared to be the villain, you know. And so it's like, especially with me, they want to hang on to, you know, exaggerated things and fictional things, basically. If she's the villain, then they're not. Exactly. And, you know, in life and in reality TV and in life in general, people want that. They want a bad guy. They want a good guy. And then they hold on to those. And you can't

tell them anything different because they need that to be the way it is because that makes them feel safe and okay because they can sit there and judge you. Absolutely. Nope. Have you been on a reality TV show? Have you been the villain? Well, a version of it. A version of it. I mean, it was our reality. That was on display for everyone else's entertainment. Yes. Hey, that's everybody's hard. So kudos to you guys. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.

Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. Next Monday, our 2026. IHeard Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees.

You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at veeps. or the Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the show. the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He Said She Said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you get your podcasts. Ego Wota is your host for the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad?

Her podcast, Thanks, Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing.

Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego, them and start listening on the free IHeartRadio app today. So you all have been married for five years now? Mm-hmm. Five years. And you've blended your families, which is no easy task. How have they handled all of that with cameras rolling?

Because it's hard enough without cameras rolling. I can't imagine doing it in that environment. Yeah. How the kids handled it? Yeah. You know, they haven't really been around for much of it. We've kind of decided at the beginning that we weren't going to involve the kids. And so it's been, I think,

think probably more seamless than it would have been had we, you know, had we chose to. What about the head? Your kids are older. They're closer, I think, to, to, they're in college, correct in high school? Yes, yeah. I mean, they read things. They see things. How does that impact them and you all forming your own family? They've been, I mean, they've been, it's like, to be, it's been like water off their back. They're both, you know, they grew up athletes and kind of, you know, thicker skin, basically. And, um, my, My family has kind of been in the entertainment business for a long time. And so they understand kind of the nature of the entertainment business.

And they also, you know, learn to distinguish between fiction and reality. And so they've been fine. They're supportive and so sweet. They'll see things and they'll send it to me. Yeah. And just they'll be like, I just walk this person. Or I just, you know, like they're supportive and very, very sweet. And then my youngest is eight years old and she doesn't know.

She just started saying, like, we'll go through a drive-through. and she'll roll down her window and be like, my mom's on Hulu. That's pretty good. Yeah, but it's just been work to them for the longest time. Like, oh, we have work. Like, we just call it what it is. It's work, you know, and they kind of view it as that.

And then also there's the perk side of it where, you know, we're going to Disneyland, VIP, and they're like, wait, what? And it's like, well, it's because what we do. And they're like, okay, yeah, that's cool. That's cool work, you know? Like, that's worth it. Or we're taking fun trips or meeting cool people. and having these cool opportunities,

and, you know, I'm calling my daughter, being like, Whitney's here on the Billboard. You know, she's been here to see me on the billboard. And, you know, those moments where they're like, oh, whoa, like you're doing something really cool, which is fun for them to see, you know, and kind of carve a different path than I grew up with. I mean, he grew up in this world.

So for him, I think it's, you know, kind of normal, would you say? Like, it's the norm. And for me, I'm like, I grew up so humble and just came from basically nothing. And so for me, it's fun to show my daughter a different lifestyle and give her the experiences. That's why I do it. Brett, you mentioned you've been in this world.

Your family has, and you said you, your family knows how to separate fact from fiction, right? The BS that's out there. I wanted to ask about the fiction. What is the biggest piece of fiction out there about you all's relationship? Sounds like you all keep up with what's going on on social media and what people are saying.

But what is the thing out there that people think, If you could just snap your finger and correct the record, if you will, what is the thing that people think about you all that you really, really wish they could get right? I mean, I think. I have two pieces. You want to start. She's on it. Go ahead.

No, no, you go. I don't want to cut you off. You're not. I've got a couple of. I love it. I'll go off the back of you. Wait. I'm like, thank you for that question.

Go. Oh, I have two pieces that are just quick. I'll just rattle off. One, I didn't cheat on Brett. And two, we did not know each other when I was nine years old. Wow. Yeah. Thank you.

Yes, that's one of the first things you see when you Google. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I met Brett when I was 21 years old at our good family friends funeral. Where did that start? What does stuff like that come from? Well, okay. I'm kind of to blame on that one.

Okay. Because it was the satire time of TikTok where people are just going after our our age gap relationship, and they're like, grandpa, da-da-da-da-da. And so then what do you do? You just play into it. So then I, you know, I played into it as though. You languageed a couple things that were a little, that could have been confusing. Exactly.

Yeah. Which, I honestly, it doesn't bother me. I feel like it's bothered you more than me, which rightfully so. Like, what people have spotted. What people. That makes sense. Yes. Yeah.

Like, what was posted didn't. But then the call. that came from it, then he was like, okay, now it's getting creepy. The age where I met her just keeps getting younger and younger and younger. And then he was my babysitter. And then he was like best friends with my parents. And so then it just, the thing just keeps getting spun and spun. And so I take full responsibility for starting that whole thing.

So it's my job to clear it up. We met when I was a beyond legal adult. And we both were married to different people. Like we, it was not at all what people are saying on the internet. Yeah. There's this, yeah, there's this 16 year age gap, right? Yeah. I think where it got a little confusing too was one of my best friends was her best friend's dad.

And he was, it's kind of convoluted, but his, my sister-in-law is his niece. And so, you know, we live in Utah. Clearly, we're talking about Utah here. Trying to get my head around that. So, so, yeah, a good friend of mine that was 20 years older than me. He was like my uncle. Okay. And she was friends with her, with his daughter.

And it's so wild to think about because, like, that's so close, right? And there's so many connections. But I genuinely didn't. I never met Brett until that funeral. And I had obviously. It was the funeral of her best friend's dad. Yeah. And I had heard of him, obviously.

Like, he was like this all-star provo boy, you know. And I had heard of him. I had heard of his family, obviously. And his sister was married to Larry King. you know, all these things. So it was like the Ingamins were known. But we never met each other. So that is a huge thing. I'm like, I know for like you too. Thank you for asking that actually. I appreciate it. I understand why you had that one ready to go.

And did you have something you wanted to clear up? Well, I was just going to say the fidelity thing is just, it's so funny because you won't find a couple that's more committed to each other and doesn't even have a thought of being with anybody else. So it's just that's been such a dumb thing to even have to talk about. Should I even ask where that one came from? From Vanderpump Villa. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That wasn't you as well. I'm just making sure you didn't start that one like you did the nine-year-old thing. No. No, I didn't have to start that one. No, that was, we won't mention his name. Yes, we get it. There's an asterisk there, yes. I'm curious, too, because you all were in other relationships you said when you first met and you just were friendly.

How did it go from that to then you all being in a, romantic relationship. Well, do you want to talk about The Bachelor? Yeah. So. It's my favorite story. So I would run into DeMey and her husband at the time, at the gym from Time of Time. And basically, out of nowhere, long story short, I get an email from The Bachelorette,

and they said that you have been nominated anonymously to be on the show. But we had just seen him at the gym, and we were like, what's going on? second marriage didn't work out like you're such a catch what's happening like you need to go on the bachelor i had a second marriage it didn't work out okay it was a whoopsie it was about six months got it yeah a whoopsie yeah that's right sure i move over to this yeah third times it charps yeah um sorry not to not to cut you no but my husband my ex-husband and i had told him like what's going on like you're such catch so handsome like you need to go on the bachelor he was like absolutely not No, so we go home, we nominate, or we nominate him.

That's a good story. Anonymous list that night. Okay. So then he gets a call. Oh, wow. Literally the next day. Yeah. They were desperate to cast somebody, I think, that was like age appropriate for Claire,

Claire Crawley. Yes. She was like 40, I think, and I was 42 at the time. And so, yeah, I went on The Bachelorette, and I was there for about a week. Then COVID hit. They sent us home, and there was a break. But in the, in the... Oh, you damn.

Yeah. So, but when you go, when you go to the bachelor, you have to go dark on social media. Anyway, I come home, I go back on social media. She notices that I am no longer filming and then what? So then I, he like, posted something of his sons and I was like, wait, what's going on? I thought you were filming. Like, what, how are you posting? And he was like, oh, we actually all got sent home.

And I was like, oh, that's crazy. And then I was like, by the way, I'm getting divorced. And he was like, I'm so sorry. Like, I mean, we told no one. I told him before I told my family. And he was like, it's crazy if you need a shoulder to cry on. I didn't actually say that, right? Probably.

That is, life is weird. Now, I didn't know you were on that season. So I didn't actually go and film. It was the week leading up to it. COVID hits. They send us home. and then I think they filmed like four months later. And you were already in a relationship at that point.

Yes. Well, you would have gone back. Had I not met her, maybe. Probably not. But still, to think that you could have been on your way to another love journey, if you will, and COVID got you here. That is weird how stuff works out.

We noticed this life all the time. Who knows that any little thing would have happened differently? COVID saved me. I mean, damn, that's just a weird thing to say or to think about. But that is, congratulations. I love that story, by the way. That's very, very cool. In fact, I would say COVID played a role in our relationship as well.

So it's funny, all things that are suddenly, you know, that seem overwhelming and tragic and certainly were. It changed the course of so many people's lives. And it made a lot of people realize that they didn't want to be married or maybe a lot of people. No, really. Do we know what the statistics are? Because I think it had to have gone. It seems like it went through the roof because people were forced. Yeah, with their relationship.

You were forced to face. your relationship. There was no escaping it. A hundred percent. No, that's a real thing. It is. I mean, everyone was in such close quarters. We were talking about that again last night. What's the divorce rate now? 50 something percent? They always say that. It's 50 plus percent. But then we were thinking about the people that we know that are married, that have been married for a long time. And a lot of them are not happy. We knew where you were going with that. Yeah. And so it's like, what percentage of married couples are actually happy? we've had that exact same conversation because so many people, and this is the perfect podcast to have this conversation, because so many people sit in judgment of other people who get divorced and remarried and they sit in their marriages and think, see, we're great because we're still married.

And also misery loves company. And they live on the other side of the house and they don't speak. Correct. And, yeah. Haven't had sex in a year. Yeah. And, yes. And actually hate each other.

Correct. But they're still married. Yeah. So, ha. Yeah. Success. Yeah. I know. It just, it comes down to the definition of success for you, I guess.

Oh, my God. Okay. When do we want to get the fruity Pebbles thing out of the way? I think right now. Okay, let's do it. Let's go. Are you thirsty, babe? Cheers. I'm a step out for this. So, Jesse makes this video on social media, exposing what you, what she says is the truth about fruity Pebbles. And then you all went on social media the next day and had your own play on what she said without actually saying anything. You just showed something. How do you, how are you, do you care about it at all? Is it funny to you? Like, what was the actual impact of any of that? Yeah, I mean, originally, when it got brought up on the show, I didn't want to

talk about it. I just thought, like, this is personal. This is between us. I shared this with the women in confidence. And I shouldn't have even done that. You know, we've spoken about that since. And I'm like, that was, I mean, a betrayal to Brett because that was something that happened between us. If he went and told his buddies, I'd be like, what are you doing? You know? And so I regretted that later that I brought that up to even the women. And so, yeah, obviously it was something that we never planned to have come out. Is it the end of the world?

No. But then, like you said, our steps, like my stepson's, his kids who are adults are on social media. They're seeing this. And then our youngest son is in high school. And it's like we know how brutal high school people can be. And like how many months have passed and we're at a baseball game the other day? And they're like, let's go, Fruty Pebbles boy, come on, let's go, you know. And I mean, again, is it the end of the world?

No. But like it also did affect our youngest son to some degree. And that bothers me and that bothers him. And I know it like really upset him. I mean. People do a lot of dumb things when they're, not dumb things. Because, I mean, people experiment all the time in the bedroom. And when we, we were three sheets to the wind, you know.

And if, if, and it happened one time, you know, and if, you know, if everybody had to talk about something that they've done when they're three sheets to the wind or whatever, I mean, what are we talking about? Exactly. Leave it to Jesse, of course, to bring something like that up. So, it's just, I mean, yeah, anyway, that's all I'll say about that. Why did you all decide? It seemed because I, we discussed this. I said, hey, babe, I don't, because of what we've actually experienced, we didn't find it funny. I mean, people make jokes, but this is whatever it is to you all, knock yourselves out, fine.

But why did you all respond to her in the way you did? You kind of tongue in cheek with that video. And then I saw that, said, oh, I guess they're cool talking about it. Yeah, yeah. It was more so that it was one of those things where it's like, well, it's out there. So what are you going to do about it? I think what we were upset about was the timing of everything and why she responded. You know, she obviously was upset at, you know, comments that were made or, you know, it's just the extent that she went to to try to uncover something to either cover up her own stuff or to show that she was upset at me.

And I think that's what it was, that we were just like, okay, you took it too far. And so then we're like, what are we going to do? Fuel the fire with her or just bring the levity and own it and like make it as lighthearted as possible. But it sounds like there was a real relationship issue in there that a lot of couples deal with. You betrayed a trust, right? How far do you go? What do you all think about the idea? How much is it okay to tell your girlfriends about what happens at the house with him?

and how much do you, are we allowed to as, in a couple, how much should you say it sounds, how long did it take you all to work through that? Because that is a betrayal. I mean, I think she knew pretty immediately. In fact, you called me right after you had the conversation with the girls about it. And you were like, babe, I'm so sorry. And, you know, and I mean, I think we had a,

we had a brief argument about it, really, but it was not, it wasn't, I knew that she meant, well, I, sometimes she overshares when, And it was early on in- in- - Girls tend to over-share. Yeah. And so it was just like...

Especially about sex, which is funny. I feel like we talk about it more than men. Because they're like, we're good. We're chilling. Like, I had sex with my wife this week. We're good. Whereas women are like, well, like, is this normal? And do you do this with your husband?

And did it? Like, we're more insecure about it, I feel. And so we have more open conversations. That's how we learn. Like, men, I always say men learn through porn and having sex. And women learn through having conversations about sex with their girlfriends. Like, it's just a different world.

you know, but sorry, keep going. I think we did have a quick argument about it, and I recognized that I was like, I'm so sorry. You know, like, I know you're not going to your buddies telling them, like, oh, guess what my wife did, you know? And so I was like, I understand that, you know, if that comes out, that's embarrassing for you. And, you know.

I think I also kind of figured that, you know, when she's sharing it, it would be one thing if she was sharing something like that with a group of girls that were like, not on a reality TV show, you know. But we weren't at the time. Yeah. Oh, you weren't?

Mm-mm. Okay. They were just, we were mom talk at the time. Yeah, it was right before. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't like a longstanding girlfriend, right? And so I think that it was more so like who it was and the fact that that was

something that we experimented with once and it was, you know, it was a little flippant on my end. So we had that conversation and then obviously like moving forward, I've, I've, like, vowed to be better about that. But to go back to your question, I think it really is just a personal thing. Like, between you two, like, what your boundary is with that. And sometimes you don't know that you have that boundary until it's crossed. And then you're like, wait, hold on. I don't like that we're talking about that things that we do in the bedroom.

That's, like, sacred to me. And that was one of those moments where I was like, I've always been kind of flippant with that. And I've always been super open and just like, oh, yeah, we try this. Woo! You know, I'm just a little bit more open. like he said and I realized in that moment that he's more private about that and so that was a moment where I was like okay that's our boundary you know so yeah and there's nothing more painful I don't think than you sharing something with

someone where you feel like you're being vulnerable and then it's used against you that's a terrible feeling for sure especially among friends like that's awful girls yeah girls do and they know how to cut deep they know how to get you they know how vulnerable that is and how that feels. And it's a choice. Yeah, for sure. It's a choice to share it. I'm curious, would you all say you learned more lessons about where you are in your

relationship because you seem like you guys are awesome from your previous relationships and lessons learned in those or lessons learned doing this all in front of the cameras with reality show and folks watching and weighing it? I think both. but the environment that we've been in the pressure cooker environment that it is, I would say that that has definitely

challenged us the most and actually like living the life because it's one thing to like learn lessons and then it's another thing to apply it. And the application of it has been huge because we're getting these things thrown at us like fiery darts constantly. And then it's like, how are we going to manage this?

How are we going to handle this? How are we going to weather this? together. So I would say living it together for sure. And then, you know, always life experience always, you know, has the opportunity to teach you things and show you the things that need to be healed. And we both individually do therapy and we both do therapy together. And I think that's huge because there's things that will come up in our relationship. And we're like, hold on, well, that's not coming from here. This is a deeper wound. This is a mother wound. This is a father wound. This is a past relationship wound. And so we're able to like kind of separate that and then

be there for each other. So I would say a combination of everything, but yeah, I think living it together and having to face that together for sure. Yeah. She mentioned, you know, doing like self-work. I think for me, the biggest thing, again, going back to just separating reality from fiction and all the darts that are thrown at you, one of the challenges that I used to have was allowing for like an intrusive thought to,

percolate and you give meaning to the thought and then all of a sudden if you give it enough time and meaning all of a sudden that thought is true. So on the personal self-work side, I've done a lot of ketamine, sort of doing some EMDR, that allows you to just kind of pull yourself back and look at the situation for what it actually is. And that's been, I think, probably the biggest key for me in our relationship is just doing my own personal work in that way. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared.

That's why I remember 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. This is the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate. Celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.

And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

he became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He Said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

X word! Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ego Wodda is your host for the 26 IHart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom. Ego may have a few father-related issues.

Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom, and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. How much work needed to be done?

We say this oftentimes that you got to, sometimes we're not ready to be a good partner to somebody because we're messed up. How prepared were you all when you got together? Was there a lot of more work that still need to be done? I barely had any work to do. Really? Just kidding. I had a lot more. Everything's been great. You'd think, you know, the older person in the, you know, a couple would have the least amount of work to do. I for sure had the most amount of work to do. I just don't think you have the tools. Like I grew up with a mom that was very, like she leaned more holistic and like she would read us the book feelings buried alive and like I learned very quickly that like your body will show you kind of what's happening deep down and so I had a lot of those tools

you know already and then I'm just like super passionate about mental health I've struggled with it my whole life and you know come from a long line of mental health and so for me it's almost a passion because I want to understand myself I want to understand you know my family I want to be able to help. I want to be able to do better for my kids. And so it became a quick passion for me of like a modality like, okay, now this is calling to me and this and I do energy work. And then I would do, you know, all these different things.

And then that led me to ketamine and then, you know, all the different modalities that are out there. I was just, you know, one by one. I was just like going through this journey. And so for me, it became like this passion project, if you will, where it was just like how can I become better? How can I understand myself better? How can I love myself truly?

How can I, you know, how can I change, you know, break the patterns and break the generational trauma that I've seen in my family? And for Brett, I think it was more so the normal average person that's like, yeah, that's bothered me, but I've never really thought about it. And so I think we really have been such a good mirror for each other. because I bring the passion with that and he's like yeah I don't know it's bothered me and it's obviously showing up in ways that bother me and I'm like this isn't working and he's like well yeah it's bothered me but I don't really know what's going on and I'm like well let's

dive deeper yeah so I feel like we've really and he same for him like he'll bring things out of me that trigger me and then I realize I'm like it's not you it's like a wound that I have So we really compliment each other really well in that sense. Now, I was laughing because we go through that same thing to where I, yes, this normally bothers me when I saw it starting to impact her. Like that's not fair to you that I'm going through this and that's when I started doing the work as you say. It's funny to sit here with other couples have been through some shit.

Yeah. Although, I've heard so much about it, but I've never even gone in that direction. but you all seem to be huge proponents of it. I am and I want to be careful because when I was doing it, I was shouting for the rooftops. I'm like, everyone needs ketamine. And they're like, no, not everyone needs ketamine. It's not a good fit for everyone.

And also like you need to be careful, obviously, for obvious reasons. So I'm very careful to say like if it's calling to you, explore it. It saved my life. Literally. I was, I had extreme suicidal ideation and depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD. Literally, you name it. Like, I was battling that. And I had planned to kill myself.

And I was done, ready to go, starting to write the notes. And my ex-husband, I'm going to get emotional talking about it. That's okay. But my ex-husband called you out of the blue and was just like, check on to me. Like, is she okay? And, like, behind my back, they both, like, came together, and he was like, she needs ketamine. And I didn't even know what it was. Like, I...

His father-in-law. His father-in-law administers it. He's an integrative medicine doctor. And so he had the license to do it. And she was, he just randomly was like, she needs ketamine. And he was like, I don't know what that is, but let's suggest it. And the next day, I was in there. And it literally saved my life.

and, like, changed my mind on, like, wanting to end my life. And, um, here today because of that. And I have such a tender spot in my heart for him. Every time I talk about my ex-husband, I just get emotional because, like, what man, you know, like, I'm the one that left the marriage. I crushed his world. And, like, they care that he still has for me and for Brett, like, so great. He's an incredible man.

He's one of my best friends. Yeah. No, they really are, like, best friends. So it's such a beautiful thing. Anyway, ketamine. Let's go back to fruity pebble. Sorry, PJ. That's a sensitive subject for you.

I know. He starts crying. He's like, please. Guys, right there, how are you today? I know you stepped away from the show because of the number it was doing on you mentally. Guys, how are you today? I'm great. No, I really am so good.

It was such a compliment. I was talking to Taylor a couple nights ago, and we were just talking about everything. And she was like, Demi, I just have to stop and tell you. Like, I am so proud of you. Like, you have gone through it, and you just sound so grounded. And just like, you have your head on straight. You sound so hopeful. And I'm just so proud of the way that you've weathered it.

And he says that to me all the time. but, you know, we're together all the time. We're in it together. It was refreshing to hear someone just hearing me talk about opportunities coming up and, you know, the way I'm handling the negativity and the scrutiny and have them just recognize, you know, my efforts. And that was really kind of her to say. And also validated that, like, hey, you're, you are good.

You're okay. You've put in the freaking work. Like pat yourself on the back. You're doing better than you think. So I really appreciated it. hearing that for sure and I think I'm doing well and you know it's not linear every day has a different struggle and challenge and you know brings new emotions and some days like it gets me down and I'll see an interview and I'm like damn like I was there for that person like how can

they sit there and talk about me that way and damn how can they how can I be so misunderstood and that hurts you know and and I'm human and you know things do affect me but over Overall, I really do feel like I am handling it as best as I can, you know. Absolutely. Amen. It's so impressive just to know that background, to know what you've been through, and then to know that you were on this show. That show, being on a reality, would crush almost anybody.

I don't know how mentally anyone handles that, because we had just a glimpse of that type of scrutiny and pressure, and it almost buried us a lot. truthfully. I'm so sorry. Truthfully. No, but we, and I just, we have a little bit of an idea of what you've been through and certainly just so impressed with the two people who are here in this room with us now, because to think about how vilified you all have been, it's pretty awesome to meet you face to face and actually see who you really are. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. It's nice from some of that heat to go towards you all than not us.

Okay. No, Taylor said that to me the other day. She was like, um, I've got got some things coming for me, so hopefully it'll take the heat off of you. I'm like, I don't want that either, but maybe it will be kind of nice for a change to not have it be on us. I don't want it on you, but anyone else from the group want to take some? Last things about the actual show, new season, have you all gone, it just dropped, right? Yeah. Season four, have you all gone through, seen it all yet? No. Will you be watching? No. None of it? Not a second. Okay. No. All right. See, but that's growth because usually I do watch it, and then I'm just like turmoil, sick, can't sleep,

And I'm like, that's not what happened. But aren't you sprinkled throughout the season? Aren't you? Don't you show up at time or two here or there? I don't know. Okay, I'd be honest. She had the first, we knew you were coming in, had the first episode on, and I keep hearing your name.

And I run into the room. I said, where is she? No, they're just talking about it. They're just talking about it. An empty chair. They're talking about her. I have heard that a lot, that like, I'm not there, but I'm the topic of conversation. You're there.

I wish I got paid for that. I'm like, every time you mention my name, send me a check. I like that. You will be back on the show at some point. Another season officially in some capacity. Do we know that yet? I haven't decided. I've stepped away as of now, but we'll see.

I don't know. I have other things that are in the works that I'm really excited about. And if I feel that excitement towards the show ever again, I'll reconsider. But not right now. You don't feel that. I don't. Would you want her to do the show again? If she wanted to, of course.

But she wanted to. Independently, you, as just in your own moment. As it sits right now in the environment, no. No. A couple variables change, then maybe. But if she wants to, I'd still support her, but. Yeah, I have heard that the dads on the show are getting raked over the coals. Like, the men are getting obliterated, which I'm not surprised that a lot of them deserve it.

But, like, I just don't think it's an environment for the men. I don't think they're wanting the men to look good, you know? Yeah, it's a landmine for men. We'll talk about that off, Mike. We noticed the men as well. We had a lot of conversations about the guys. We certainly did. And I just wanted to end with this because I know you all, and you were open about it, and we're rooting for you.

But I know you all are really wanting to have children for yourselves. You want to expand your brood. I know you just got a puppy I saw. He looks like our little guy rode. He's a multi-pooh. I don't know what kind of you guys have. She's a cockapoo. A cockapoo.

You're very close. Yes, yes. It's like a, could be like a cousin. A hundred percent. Well, they probably are because the poodle aspect. They're related in some way. Yeah. No, that's so good.

But how is that going and what are your walk? Any, any, I know so many people struggle with this. So many women, I appreciate knowing that they're not alone and hearing how you all are doing. How are you? Where are you on that journey? Yeah. So no luck so far, unfortunately. But we're still going down the path of trying to figure out what we've gotten more.

answers like we're further than we're the furthest we've ever been on figuring out what it is. Now it's finding how to achieve fixing that issue because we've gone down the path of medication and with my mental health like medication like I get one or two bad nights of sleep and I am just like my mental health and chemically I just get so thrown off. I'm just so sensitive and a lot of that is due to I mean that's women in general for the most part but is that teaching. Oh, or men. He's highly sensitive. Okay.

And to everything. To loud sounds. Okay. To everything. Yeah. Hey, we love a sensitive guy. All that stuff. OCD, all of that.

Yeah, yeah. No, I totally get that. That's a real thing. And then I also have endometriosis. And the more I'm learning about that and like, oh, it is so empowering because for the longest time, I'm like, I'm just a Leo. I'm just a fiery Leo. And I'm just, are you a Leo?

I'm a Leo. Oh, my gosh. This is hilarious. What are you? Aquarius. Okay. August 19th. So we got water, fire.

Third. August 3rd. August 19th. Okay. So this is making sense. Everything I've said, you're like, I get you. Leo's just get each other. It's so funny.

I know my parents are both Leo's. Friends Leo, I'm surrounded by Leo. My dad's a Leo. Same birthday as her. That's so funny. Nobody understands us. No, we're so misunderstood. Guys, we can't say enough.

Really, you guys have been open and honest. Really, talking about every. thing you seem like you all just open books to a certain degree, I guess, but some things you need to keep private. We've learned. As we've learned. I've learned. I've learned.

We meet a lot of reality stars. You were here. Taylor was here. Macy was here. And who else? Lela was here. And you all, every single one of you, I don't know behind the scenes, but every single one of you came in here and were as delightful and pleasant and wonderful and real and all.

authentic and all these things. And I'm like, wait, these are the same women from the show and that they're talking about online. All I'm saying is people just don't get it. And most won't get it because they won't sit down and meet you guys. I'm saying I saw all that stuff. I read all this off. I saw a lot of the show.

It's just a pleasure to sit down and go, wow, they're good folks. Oh, thank you. They're just good folks. And we get that. Don't Google us. Too late. We never will. So it's really good to get the real verse.

of you too. Thank you for that. No, we did not. How long have you guys been together, by the way? Three years now. Three years, yeah. Engaged for how many months now? Since September.

Yes. Six months? Wednesday. We don't have the wedding date yet. We are leaving here, crazy enough. We are walking about five blocks that way to pick up her ring. It just got sized. So we're talking, she's actually in here without her ring on.

I hate it. I'm like sitting on my hands, but it's funny. I loved it so much, and it was just a little too big. But I didn't want to lose it for. any period of time to get its size. So I waited six months to get its size because I just wasn't ready to be away from it for a week. So I love that. I'll be reunited with the ring in just a minute. In just a few minutes. You! Wait, congratulations. That's amazing. Literally, thank you guys so much. Good luck on everything. We will certainly see you all down the road.

Thank you. Thank you for having us. Catch the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 4 now streaming on Hulu. All right, everybody, if you need some advice on how to navigate life in chapter two or three or four, you can call us or email us. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do, part two, an IHeart radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks, Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers.

I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad with Ego Wodom and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. You know, Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But does you know, he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories?

It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Doll on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hill, Lirie Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family like this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life. And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.