The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Picking Up The Pieces

Episode Date: January 11, 2025

 Jennie continues her conversation with Dr. Hillary and gets emotional thinking about her own experience with divorce. The women discuss the best way to introduce your kids to your new significant other and how important it is to make conscious decisions about your deal-breakers heading into your next relationship. Email us at: [e-mail] or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763) Follow I Do, Part 2 on Instagram and TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it.

The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free I-HeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. I was diagnosed with cancer on Friday and cancer-free the next Friday. No chemo, no radiation, none of that.

On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell, Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive to talk about the beats, the business, and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop. Professionally, I started at Death World Records. From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, We get into the soul of the music and the purpose that drives it. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's me, Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here at I Do Part 2. we're talking with Dr. Hillary, and there was just so much more that I need to ask her. So let's jump back into that conversation. The hardest part for me was the kids of it all. And just that enormous guilt that I was ruining their lives forever. And just, it was really, really hard for me. And I can remember the only thing, the only tool that I heard from somebody along the way was, I would say to them in those moments when they were showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish I had a magic wand and I could wave it and everything would be okay, but I don't. I love that you send this. So you did have tools that you. That's a version of what I'm really saying

here. And this is the heart thing as a parent that is part of the decision to divorce or at least had to agree to the divorce is saying to our kids some version of, I can't fix it. It's the last thing we want to say to our kids, but the best thing to say to our kids. Their reality is that it's not okay. And they don't want to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want to hear that you get it, that it hurts and that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely.

It will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in a certain way, in a year in a certain way, in 10 years in a certain way, it will feel better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know adults who are children of divorce and they're okay. They find their way, right? But paradoxically, kids of divorce find their way much more easily if their trauma and their ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed and not try to make okay. Right.

Because that's their reality. It's never going to be okay. for a kid that their mom and dad are together. I mean, there may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously, but in general. Yeah. I love that you send that to them. So you offer them something critical, which is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it.

And I'm right here with you until it feels just a little bit better. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What do you think about bringing the new significant other to a holiday gas? gathering to meet your family for the first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much for the new person to handle too much for the kids, the family to handle? Yeah. So if you come to know me, in general, I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and talk about both sides. I am not going to do that here. That is a hard no. Oh my God. I failed. I met my new significant other

in the beginning of December and he was at our house for Christmas. Oh, man. Yeah. No. Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory and in concept where I would say no and they work out beautifully? Absolutely. Right. I mean, I have clients who meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the next week have them move in two weeks later. and somehow the beautiful maths became loving. And so, but let me tell you why I'd say no. And that is the introduction, it's really about the kids. If there's no kids involved, yeah.

I mean, if there's no kids involved, whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's just fine. I may have like an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's just fine. When there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I was just talking about, which is like something much deeper. In our minds, we're like, whatever. It's like two hours over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs. It's all good.

Other cousins will be there. It'll be like so fun, right? But because it bumps up against this like deeper, this isn't my dad. My mom is moving on. It sort of kicks up that like my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet your significant other in a very small dose. in a super chill environment is what I recommend as a first step. So, like, it's in neutral territory, you know, over a coffee or a quick ice cream

depending on age. And it's like an hour. And it's like the discussion beforehand is a version of what I was just talking about. Like, so you've known about Joe for a long time. But this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to me that I want you who is the most important person to me in the world to meet him. And that's a big message. Whoa. Bring up a lot of feelings, you know, really. And it's adjusted for the kids 16 versus six, but you get what I'm saying.

So, wow, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a moment. You know, how do you feel about it? Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just going to have an ice cream and you'll get to say hi and you can show them your, favorite doll, and then like, that's it when maybe we'll see him again another time after, right? And so that it's, it's really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it. And it feels kid-centered, which I think matters that it's like, I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going to say right now, but some version of like, your comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me. So this is slow. This is intentional. This is no

pressure. And the meeting itself is really more about Joe, meeting the kids, versus the kids just witnessing mom with Joe in their new relationship. It's a way to bring them in as a part of it as opposed to just like a witness of it. Yeah, because they are a part of it. Absolutely. That's the attention. And so slow rolling it in the way that I was just describing, I think sets up. the entire system for the most success, but particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here, he's here and accept him, right? It's, it's, the initial meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe, but rather about Joe and the kids just getting to know each other. And then the next

time it's two hours. You go bowling. And then the next time it's a movie and dinner. And then from there, you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive. It can work in an absence of all of this. But from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the information we've been talking about, imagine what I'm saying makes sense. And that ideally, and if you're looking for like a little bit of a map, that's the one I would pick. That's a good map. Oh, I was flying Mapless. Okay. What do you think about people who have a checklist of must-haves in a partner? I know I, in my work after my divorce, I had to sit down and think about what was important to me looking forward into another relationship. And my therapist at that time called it my non-negotiables

where there were certain things that were very, very important to me to build that relationship on. Exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well, non-negotiables and just to think more about it for the folks listening. These are things that like, they're just deal breakers that have now decided post-divorce with great intention and analysis you cannot live without. You cannot endure. And I mean, those might be things, anything from he lives a certain number of miles away to he does have kids. He doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication, to his adventurous lifestyle, whatever the things are. And that is personal and concrete.

So concretize those non-negotiables, those deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be vague and amorphous. Like really decide what are those things. And if you sit down with your piece of paper or your friend or your therapist, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow. That's okay. I'm not surprised. You just got out of divorce. It's traumatic and you're trying to find your feet on the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. It's a process. And like we were talking about at the beginning, if you think your non-negotiables are these top three things and then you meet someone and he has kids and you were sure you didn't want to be with someone who has kids, but like all the other things, are so important, let it be fluid. Don't make it all-encompassing and all-powerful in a way that disallows you to be a version of like contrive spontaneous, right? Allow those things to shift because

you will be growing and shifting post-divorce. So start the process, but allow it to flow and shift and change and don't shame or criticize yourself if it does. In fact, expect it to. Yes. Should you tell the person about your non-negotiables or should you keep them to yourself? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I might not just like present it. It's like a list. Here you go. Okay, read this and then just sign at the bottom that you actually read it. Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So if, if, if, if, you know, You are sure that you want to be with someone who is open to having children. That seems like a non-negotiable that is worthy of sharing.

You know, I'm not sure you want to use that as like your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting. And it's, and I would love for people to, when I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of want to be with someone who has kids. I want you to sit in your truth and try it on.

Yes. Even if it changes six months from now, I just know in this season of my life, I'm really clear I want to be with someone who wants to have kids as much as I do. It's just something I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great, right? There's no apology. There's no further explanation. This is my truth. And if the person can't promise it or is turned off by that, we can thank them for giving us

this feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer. And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting and all those things. But if our goal is to be embodied, right, is to figure out what resonates for us and live a life that finally feels like it's uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things out there in this embodied way. This is my truth and I'm not going to apologize for it. And I would attach that same mindset to really any non-negotiable that like don't apologize for it.

You know, I want to be with someone that wants to travel three times a year. I do. Might seem silly, might seem small, might seem nuance, but that that's my truth for now. How do you feel about travel? Right? That you're just embodying who you are at this season. and trying on how it feels to show up that way. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor.

And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness. Psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy.

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and profound and powerful stories, I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests,

for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets, Season 12, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast, Grasasas Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment

with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah.

We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. I feel like this is my destiny. You were destined to be a start. Yeah, that's what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vibras you've come to expect. And, of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community.

You feel like you get a little whitewash? So do you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I had something so, it felt so insignificant. But to me, it felt it was important.

I didn't want to be with a smoker. I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and then for the rest of our lives was sick from it always had that smell like it was really important to me and when I met Dave he smoked

and so I immediately thought oh well he's not the one for me because he smokes silly as that is and I remember asking is quitting smoking something that you're might ever be interested in or open to do you want to smoke forever what what what is it with

you in smoking like i had to instead of just shutting it off yeah myself i had to do what you said get curious yes and embody what i wanted but at the same time be curious about what he wanted so that i could get that solid information right i know well that's exactly what i'm talking about you have to show up for yourself. And it's not easy. That kind of self-advocacy is very vulnerable. It's scary, yeah. And that feeling I want your listeners to understand is ubiquitous.

There's nothing wrong with you if that feels scary. It is scary to stand in your own truce and declare them with risk, right? He could have turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this. If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess this is where we part ways. And that might have been devastating, right? but to pursue something that is, like, deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the pursuit post-divorce, right? If we're going to get divorced and we're going to go through that trauma, we better be pursuing

something that is like soul-worthy, right? It better be. We're going to go through all of that. And so having a conversation like this, yes, scary, nothing wrong with you. If it's anxiety-provoking, all you got to do is eke it out. You don't have to feel confident about it. You don't have to not feel scared about it. You just have to get the words out, right?

Practice it until it starts to feel a little less scary. But I just love that word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing for that to shift and change and be influenced by safe others and our own sort of growth. But that's the exact example. A version of the example I had in mind. A dating coach said that you should only go on a date with someone once a week when you're getting to know them, do you think that's a good rule?

In spite of what I've just said about, I've said a number of things that are prescriptive. In this case, no, I don't like overprescribing dating post-divorce, what it should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a lot of confusion and shame and self-criticism. Look, in its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights a week and not getting a lot of sleep and drinking and in and around lots of different guys and that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and overwhelming and the opposite of grounding, I think that's something to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But I think having like a once a week is the limit. And if more, that's bad. If less, that's bad.

It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in. Yeah, the rules of it all are not. Yeah. That's right. So again, intuition, you know, back to like, yeah. So lately I've been going out two, three times a week. I feel to me? Is it starting to feel like I don't have as much time for self-care or sleep or my

kids? No shame, no criticism? Yeah, maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice a week. I wonder what that'll feel like, right? You know, and just being curious as opposed to the rules which I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean, once a week, if you decide that and that feels right, too, that's great. But if you decide to do more, when you're getting to know someone, I think that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory, which plays out often enough that post-divorce, you meet someone and filling in space with that person makes you feel less hard things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your confusion and your anger and your trauma.

We want to watch out for that. If we are unable to sort of reserve time for self-reflection to feel all the messy feelings and the main culprit is dating and the time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions. I don't want to equate it to like so. going out more than once a week, that means you can't do that. I just want to be conscious about it. Am I giving myself enough time and space and mobilizing resources to help myself heal? And if the

answer is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look at that and eliminate the things that are or at least modified the things that are getting in the way. Right. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. We run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life,

impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share

10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets.

Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie Club Podcasts, Season 4 is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement.

Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it.

Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The divo of the people. The divo of the people. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself.

Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreak, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Speaking of rules, what do you think about books like the rules or men are from Mars and women

are for wherever other planet I can't remember Venus? Venus, yes. Do those kinds of books help? Look, I mean, I think some of those concepts were created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean, none of us are strangers for the idea that like men and women oftentimes think differently and are more or less emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having like a language to talk about it is, it can be useful. Like with ourselves, between friends and with a partner. So I, they have utility because they make those things concretize in a way that like we can wrap our brain around as opposed to just like the feeling of all those experiences.

Having said that I think dialogue and conversation and nuanced. and, like, the self-check-in pattern that we're talking about is your best tool. Not a, like, chapter three page, you know. Let me just, hold on. Let me look at that chapter. This is what must be happening. Instead, look at yourself. What is happening?

What do I understand about it? How does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can I say more about it? And what's ever going on with the person in front of us being able. I mean, it depends on the situation, if I'm overgeneralizing, but to do a version of what you said you did in your circumstance,

like, huh, I'm feeling this thing or I'm thinking about this thing. Like, I just want to say it out loud. What do you think? You know, that we, if we get our head to into books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves

and in dialogue with our potential partners. And if our potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is deliberate in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think about that. If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting over your ex-spouse, what should we do? I mean, what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we don't stay stuck? Like, that's the worst when you just can't get over it. Yes, yes, yes.

It is the worst. It's deeply painful to go through all the things that we're talking about and still the person. Especially if that person is already dating someone else, moved on. It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a pleasant concept to consider. but it's like a death that induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial, all the bargaining, all that stuff that is a little bit cliche, but like, oh, so true, you know, and there's no avoiding that.

There's no amount of, like, dating or bashing him or therapy or whatever other tools you might mobilize, that can be a shortcut of that you're going to mourn it, you're going to grieve it, and you're going to feel the things. And that season of life is a little bit of a dark night of the soul, right? It is really, really, really hard to get through. So paradoxically, leaning in, here it is, here it is. I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of myself in every way I can think of and not expecting it to feel like better or okay in the short run. And I'm I'm like allowing myself to sit in it so that as it begins to pass through, which it always does, I remind clients all the time, name a feelings that you've had that hasn't changed

eventually. No such thing. It does change. It does change and morph eventually, maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now or 12 months. Now it does shift in change eventually. And so it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up and out from your. your body in a safe way and just, like I said, curating and cultivating as many resources

as possible as you get through it, being really kind and graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't say time, when you have space, to start gently thinking about why this person is not a safe choice for you any longer, right? And if the only thing on the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough. that's not a safe choice for you anymore even if everything else about them is amazing which is usually not the case but even if it is that renders it an unsafe choice for you and that doesn't mean it's easily accepted but it's something to start orienting yourself around I can't choose somebody doesn't choose me I can't invest in something that isn't reciprocated and gently starting to understand the part of you that's willing to do that for two Ooh, it reminds me just like this hard, this hard truth that I had when I was going through it was

the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who doesn't love you back? And that, like, resonated for me in my times of missing and wanting and attaching to things. I would say that to myself and I would be like, I would hate hearing it. Then it started to become like, okay, this is a feeling. It's going to pass. This is temporary. I know this only lasts for like three minutes. this intense feeling of hurt and pain, and then I would replace that with, he is not an option

for you anymore in my mind. That is not an option. So look somewhere else. Yes, it is a deeply painful process to not be chosen. And there's no way around that. But recognizing that truth and building a relationship with it is critical because we can't let ourselves orient our heart, mind, body soul to someone who doesn't choose us. It's the ultimate self-betrayal, yeah? So it is with great care that we continue to like gently pick ourselves up and place ourselves on another path because that path we don't get to be chosen. We don't get the love that we deserve. And it's like with great sadness and despair to remove ourselves there, but we must. We must. We must survive. I love our conversation. Thank you so much.

Oh, such a pleasure. Such an important conversation you have, I love. Yes. Thank you for being with us. Yes, of course. That conversation with Dr. Hillary was so incredibly helpful for even me. I've been divorced for 10 plus years and I got so much out of it. And I really hope that everybody listening who is in the position of thinking about a divorce, in a divorce, just had a divorce.

I hope that you got some really good info from this. pod and I just, I know you can do this. We, you will get past this and we are here to help you. So please, please, if you want to call us for advice, 1-8444-4-4-4-4-4-4-6-3, or you can email us at Ido pod at iHeartRadio.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at I-do Part 2 pod. And be sure to check out all the information in our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us. I do part two and IHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. Let's start with a quick puzzle.

The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, What is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers, believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler.

Listen on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. I was diagnosed with cancer on Friday and cancer free the next Friday. No chemo, no radiation, none of that. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us podcast, I sat down with Warren Campbell, Grammy-winning producer, pastor, and music executive to talk about the beats, the business,

and the legacy behind some of the biggest names in gospel, R&B, and hip-hop. Professionally, I started at Death World Records. From Mary Mary to Jennifer Hudson, we get into the soul of the music and the purpose that drives it. Listen to Culture Raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.