The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Plotting And Strategizing with Sean McLaughlin and Allyshia Gupta

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Were Sean and Allyshia playing Paradise right, or did they come in too bold? Ben conducts a deep dive into why the Parliament of Paradise seemed to fizzle out quickly. Where are the receipts? And why did this duo feel inclined to take Kat down?We also try to get some answers on why their relationship didn't continue after they left the beach...and if anyone is holding out for a second chance. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones.

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Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Before I get too carried away, I do want to give a shout out to the hotel we're staying at. The Portofino Hotel Marina. Escape to the coast at the Portofino Hotel Marina in Redondo Beach. Wake up to the sweeping ocean views, then dine marina front at the Baleen kitchen. where fresh flavors meet stunning King Harbor views. At Dockside Adventure Center, rent kayaks, paddleboards, or take our complimentary bikes out for a spin along the coast.

And back to the hotel, unwind in the living room. The Portofino pours self-serve tap wall and soak in a breathtaking coastal sunset. The Portofino Hotel and Marina, where coastal charm meets endless discovery. Now, let's get back to our interview. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast. with IHartRadio.

Hey, everybody, it's been here with the Almost Famous Podcast. We are here live in studio. We just got off of the reunion special. Incredible special. I thought it was a lot better than I expected to be. Nobody was talking over each other, and I think there was many opportunities to do that. First, my first question is, it's Alicia, right?

Yes, yes, nailed it. Well, says it right. Others don't. Sean says it the best, I will say. Sean, give them. Alicia. There you go. Alicia. Okay. Alicia. It's a beautiful name. Thank you. Sean Alicia. Alicia are here with us today.

Goodness gracious, guys. You left Paradise in a big way. Your experience in Paradise was so beautiful and so good until it just got wild. I want to start this with saying, Sean, I don't think you were completely in the wrong. So, and I just have to say, is a fan. I'm watching it back. And up until the point that you start strategizing, nobody else is doing it. And you said, hey, it's time to strategize. Like, we're getting down here. It's time to start thinking about it. Everybody was like, why is he doing strategy? We're going to get into the semantics and how it was communicated in those things in a little bit. I don't think that was done perfectly. But as soon as you guys left, everybody else starts strategizing. So I think you're maybe ahead of the curve. But my question for you is, where did you guys go wrong?

wrong. I don't think we were ahead of the curve. I think it was shown that we were, or maybe Sean more than me, but we were starting to think of strategy, but we were certainly not the only people having those conversations at that point. Well, there's a great quote by the Joker in the Dark Night movie that I'm not crazy. I'm just ahead of the curve. That's how I felt like we were in a way. But I think that when you watch it back, we have the luxury of having a week break between all these episodes. When everyone got mad at me for starting to talk strategy, literally a day, two days later, they started doing it. And what I did, and no one else was thinking this way, it was like, I looked back on how many days we had left

until we were done filming. We had like five days left and we got eliminated. So I was doing the rose ceremony math. I'm like, in two days, we're gone. Like, unless we do something, we're gone. They're going to vote us out. So I was thinking a couple steps ahead. Everyone else is like almost living in the moment trying to figure out like a row ceremony by row ceremony. And I just, I mean, I had a different opinion about the show because it changed when it turned into a competition for half a million dollars do you agree um yeah i do agree with with most of that i guess the where it went wrong i think it was probably a culmination of a lot of different things um probably on our end we have some blame to take and responsibility there but i think also like

crowd mentality it's very easy to jump on the ship that's sinking and i think there was a lot of that happening um especially considering everybody who is on the same terms of not sending home romantic relationships at that point in the game. So I think it was a little bit of both. And I think we can take responsibility for our end. We might have been able to go about that a little bit with a little bit more grace for Kat. So I think lessons were learned. And that's the best part of Paradise.

We were coming away with better relationships all around. And, yeah, hindsight's 2020. Now, we did just have a reunion. You gave an update on your relationship today, which is. really, really good friends. Sean, do you agree with that? I would agree with that. Yeah, I think we, like, there's a lot of layers that you can unpack in that.

I mean, like, I was really excited. I think we both were to, like, leave Paradise together and, like, in a relationship. And ultimately, like, when we got back to Tampa, some things came up where we no longer lived in Tampa together from some career opportunities. And it was just, you know, distance is tough in any relationship, especially for the way that I think that we, what we want to have a relationship. So, but yeah, no, we're still really good friends. We talk all the time. Definitely have her back no matter what. But yeah, it's kind of where we're at.

Before we dive back into, obviously, the exit and the parliament of paradise and all those things that happened, I do want to talk about the two of you because you did have a really solid relationship for a long time in paradise. Not only, I think, because of your proximity in Tampa to each other, but also just how you two met. Can you talk to me and to listeners about your relationship? and what it meant to you guys because your exit kind of felt like, hey, we're going to try to keep going in this and then you're gone, but we didn't get the sense of where you guys actually

stood as a couple. Yeah, I mean, when Alicia came in, we had our first date, like, I felt so locked in after that. Like, we, you only see a little bit of it on the show, obviously, and they can't show everything, but, like, we talked so much about what we're looking for in life, like our family backgrounds, like her going to boarding school in London, like my brothers. I felt like we covered so much ground that first date where like I really felt like I knew her immediately. And that just continued going on throughout paradise. You never really saw our relationship as a couple, which was like a little bit frustrating watching it back. Like we were spending every night together, like those conversations that were having, like waking up in the

morning, bringing her breakfast. Like that was a legitimate relationship. And that's why, you know, I felt so strongly about us and about our relationship. And then, you know, we left and we tried to continue it outside of it, but just life happens. And I think, you know, you live in a little bit of a bubble in paradise. And I don't think one thing or the other led to our demise is really just like almost timing in a way. So how does that work? How do you spend the night together? Do you have to share like a roommate sleep in the bed next to you? Some people were doing that. We fortunately, which to my demise, I think in the game show strategy element of it, I didn't have a roommate. So then like I just, she just came over and it was great. The other people

had roommate. So they were doing like four person sleepovers, which I thought was a little bit, you know, not my cup of tea but it is paradise yeah there's some great clips uh they just haven't been released they should release them because they're they're juicy content of all the couples in the rooms but yeah that's uh you know for you alicia like this relationship meant what for me i think this relationship was truly one of the biggest wins like walking away from paradise i walked in feeling like i had really secure friendships and those were tested and felt like they were really on the rocks for a while. And in the interim, Sean really came to my defense.

And I felt like I had somebody who I could confide in, somebody who had my back and somebody who also had a really similar perspective on life. And that just meant the world to have somebody in your corner, especially when you feel like you don't have any friends or people are going against you. It made all the difference. And I think that's where we were at the point of leaving. we had found so much solace in one another. We didn't want to wake up and see any of these people

and breakfast with them. We'd much rather just wake up in Tampa together is kind of where our heads were at. And the fact that geographically we were close in proximity was kind of like a happy accident, serendipitous, but yeah, it was obviously something that we didn't have to compromise leaving paradise and not being able to go back to the same place.

Yeah. Did you two ever know each other before the show? Sean asked me out once before the show. She said no. So when you saw him again, you were like, I was out of town. I actually didn't say no. He invited me to a Tampa Bay Lightning game, and I loved Lightning,

but I was sadly out of town. And I knew when I said that, I was going to sound like the girl who's like blowing him off, but really I just seldom spend time in Tampa, and now I think you can attest to that. Yeah, she definitely doesn't. So I think, you know,

I wasn't just avoiding you, but I would love to go to the Tampa Lightning game. Now we can go out in public. Yeah. No, but we didn't really know each other. Like, we knew of each other. And, like, that was back in, like, January.

Like, we hadn't talked since then. Like, after she completely turned me down, I was like, all, well, you know, whatever. On a bigger and better things. And then, you know, she shows up in the beach. So, like, we knew of each other, but I didn't really know the first thing about her background or if we were even going to be compatible. And I think that was, like, so shocking to me was, like, as soon as, like, we connected. Probably not the first night because I was really drunk.

But, like, the next night, that was really great. And then I was like, oh, this is someone I could see myself, like, leaving here with. And then the feelings just grew throughout the time you were there. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term,

highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything.

shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills, and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adapted strategy. which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you because it's easy to say like go you go blank yourself right

it's easy it's easy to just drink the extra beer it's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way avoidance is easier ignoring is easier denial is easier drinking is easier yelling screaming is easy complex problem solving meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're siblings. Like, you fight, you disagree. It's really hard to be in a partnership.

You judge. Yeah, you judge each other. You lead differently. And we've gotten to that edge. Hey, I'm Simone Boyce, host to the Bright Side. And this week, I'm joined by Hollywood Power Sisters, Aaron and Sarah Foster. They open up about navigating the judge. judginess of Hollywood, dealing with rejection and the pressure of running a business with your

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They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the unprotected. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. I advocate for safety and awareness of predators. while wearing pink. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with sarcasm, satire, and hard truths.

I'm not going to fake it and force it for me. But would you force an orgasm? Because that's like a different layer. The car accident you didn't want to see, but couldn't turn away from. In this episode, I discussed personal safety and self-defense tools, instincts and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high-risk situations. Listen to intentionally disturbing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs.

The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it.

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You talked about, obviously, you're in this limbo stage, you're really close friends, you're no, longer like dating or whatever you call it because of career opportunities. Can you speak to any of those? Do you want to share about what those are? Yeah, I don't know if I can or can't share, but regarding interior design, which is my background and what I went to school for. So for me, that's super exciting. And I think I'm going to have a better shot, hopefully, than doing a competition about love. So fingers are crossed. And I'm just, you know, going with the flow and seeing where life takes me. I'm a firm believer. that everything happens for a reason.

And if you had asked me, even two years ago, if I would be on The Bachelor or Bachelor in Paradise, I would have laughed. But here we are. So, stranger things can happen, and I'm just kind of welcoming opportunities as they come. I'm trying not to pass them by or turn them down while I can take advantage of that.

Yeah, smart. I mean, the one thing, kind of flashing back to this season, the one thing that we did see during the reunion was you get a little emotional. I felt like I was just watching. Tell me if you didn't. When it was brought up with the moment that you walked into the room and you heard the other girls kind of talking about you, people that you thought were friends, I want to take your feelings there in that moment and kind of walk through, you know, how you two process this and how maybe close it brought you as a couple. Definitely. That was certainly like the turning point for us really feeling like we just needed to leave and be pursuing our journey together. individually at that point in Tampa.

I walked into the room and yeah, like I was very emotional bringing up to the reunion and I was emotional that night and even now talking about it. Like I really, really care about Alex and Bailey and all my friends and people who I consider friends on the outside and it's easy to think this is a TV show and just entertainment and while it is,

it's real people's lives and these are real friendships that you cultivate. So for me, the friends that I keep, I've never been in a room where like, I've had people talking about me who I consider to be like sisters. So that was really hard. And it was also at a point where, you know, I didn't know who I could come to because I didn't feel that, I didn't really feel that welcome. And I think we were just kind of on a sinking ship and it, yeah, and it sucked. It just really hurt my feelings to hear to people who I wouldn't imagine ever saying things about me.

having those private conversations. And then more than that, it was, wow, if I hadn't walked in, then would I have ever known this was happening? Probably not. And then the other thing was I had a lot of empathy for Bailey because no one told her about the Susie thing. And had I known, I would have told her. And I really stressed that to her and emphasized that. So she felt like she had someone she could trust. So then to feel like that happened just truly a day later, a day or something.

or two later, hurt even more because it felt like Bailey should know how that would feel. And it just sucked to have something done to you that you wouldn't do to someone else. Have you been able to rebuild those friendships and talk through this? Yeah. Yeah. We have. We definitely have. At the end of the day, I don't think a TV show is going to get in the way of people who are good friends. And I believe in second chances and we all grow and nobody's perfect. We're all human. And I love the saying everyone's a saint when they're talking about someone else's sins. I'm not perfect either. And I think it's just an opportunity for us to learn and grow and strengthen those relationships and hopefully stop a reoccurring pattern

from happening in the future. Yeah, sure. Now, we do have to talk about, obviously, the Parliament of Paradise. I'm most interested, I think, in the return. I was talking to Ashley, we're breaking down the finale, and I was like, I just want to know what the two of you were talking about, like, on the plane flight. Like, it felt like you came in there a thousand miles an hour to me and were like, I have to get this information out there to you all. What was the buildup like for the two of you? Can you give us a sneak peek of, one, how you came across the information, how you thought about how you were going to deliver it, why you delivered the way you did, just like bring us in on the mix. Yeah, I think that was a little bit like

people misunderstood, like the, I don't think they heard the message and more so just the delivery of it, which, like, looking back, like, I don't, like, I was pretty proud that I didn't, like, started through it all. Like, it was pretty good speech. But I think what was so jarring to people is that no one was doing that in front of everybody. Like, they're going to have these conversations, like, the hotel room on the side. So to go back, we didn't leave Paradise. We didn't leave Costa Rica. We stayed, had a nice, like, four days. It was like the best part of paradise. We were in this. Poor Keith. Wanted to go home so bad. Yeah, and they just made him day. So we had like four days together. We spent, which was amazing. But when I had got eliminated,

I, some information was brought to me about the whole iPad situation, the cat, boyfriend, who I, like, ex-boyfriend, but who I knew, but it wasn't, who I knew, but it wasn't, like, it had gotten up in Paradise before. Like, Wells had heard about it early on. Like, this is, like, first couple days, first couple weeks, like, other people that had already got eliminated, knew about it. And I was asked, like, what do I know? I was like, well, I have no idea, but let me find out. So when I made a phone call to him, he kind of told me all the information. I was like, oh my God, these people are coming after me for thinking we're not, like, into each other and questioning our relationship yet, like, this is going on in the background. So I kind of

looked around. I was like, well, it's probably going to be, because we didn't know who the final three couples were going to be. I'm like, it's probably going to be either Bailey and Jeremy, Cat and Dale, Andrew and Alex, or Justin Spencer. So whatever's going to be. And I really felt strongly that just and Spencer were the strongest couple and most deserving um because we're giving away technically we're at that time giving away half a million dollars i didn't want to see someone who was doing some things in the whether before paradise as we got there or whatever win half a million dollars i've been sick because like i wanted to win it but um so when we came in i was like do i want to have like these small conversations with people like to the side because i don't really

want to do that like i'd rather just get the information out there you guys can decide whether or not you believe it or not and vote on that and then like i want to leave like we were were so done with Paradise at that point to begin with. But it was more so it's like I'm not afraid of if I'm like pretty direct. So if I have something to say like I'm perfectly okay standing up there and saying in front of everybody, I don't need to go in a private room. And I think people were like, why didn't you pull like Cat and Dale aside and have that conversation? And the fact of the matter was at that moment like there's half a million dollars in the line. If I tell them, hey, like you have to bring this up, who knows how they're going to spin it or downplay it and then doesn't get the message

across everybody else. So people had a problem with like how I did it. I also like at the end of the day, like if I'm going to say something, I'm perfectly okay saying in front of everyone. I don't, and also want a TV show. If I did side conversations, guess what? A million people are going to watch that on TV. It's going to become public information anyway. I'd rather just say to the 16 people there. And you know, that's kind of how it went down. Looking back, do you, do you wish you would have done it differently or? I don't know. It's tough because like you have like the reaction. And I still don't think people are hearing like the message of what I was saying because I didn't lie about that. It's true. Also Hannah Brown broke off for engagement for way less. I think more people were drawing

about the reaction and I think that was a theme throughout a lot of paradise is like if you look at the Bailey and Jeremy and Brian's situation like people are reacting to the reaction not the message itself. Like people came after Brian for telling Bailey about the Susie phone call instead of looking at what Brian was actually telling Bailey. Why is that you think? It's tough. I think that it's such a like pressure cooker in this environment where like you I don't think people loved Brian to begin with so like when he stepped in a line people like Jeremy and they just like attacked and I a lot of the times there was a big mob mentality across the entire this time across the entire cast like once some person had an opinion everyone else piled on like I didn't feel like a lot of people had their own like conviction in what was going on in paradise they like to like almost like follow the leader in a way but no one else was like trying to step up and say what they actually thought. And the same thing happened with like when I went back and made that announcement. Like you look at all the people like, why would he say that? It's like, well, like, you're going to, do you want the information? Because like I think, like, I'm not the

moral police. I'm not like they're here for the right reasons guy. Like he come on the show for whatever. I do think you have to cut it off at a certain point. And I just thought that was like a little bit out of line in the context of a dating show. So I don't really regret it. I think like at the end of the day, like I got my message across. If you don't like it, that's fine. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you.

Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning.

Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Gemma Steg, host of the Psychology of your 20s. Remember when you used to have Science Week at school? Well, if you loved that, how would you feel about a full psychology month? This September, the Psychology of Your 20s, we're breaking down the interesting ways psychology applies to real life, like how our pets actually change our brain chemistry,

the psychology of office politics, whether happiness is even a real emotion, and my favorite episode, why do we all secretly crave external validation? It's so interesting to me that we are so quick to believe others' judgments of us and not our own. I found a study that said, not being liked actually creates similar levels of pain as physical pain. Like, no wonder we care so much. So the secret is, if you want to be okay with not being liked, you have to know why your brain craves it in the first place. Learn more about the psychology of external validation, everyday life, and of course your 20s. This September, listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, Puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land. Jeopardy truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right?

And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our specials. special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just think the process and the journey is so delicious. That's where all the good stuff is. You just can't live and die by the end result.

It's scary putting yourself out there, especially when it's something you really care about and something that you hope is your passion in life and you want people to like it. Let's get delicious and put ourselves out there. I'm Simone Boyce, host of The Bright Side, and those were my recent guests, comedian Phoebe Robinson and writer Aaron Foster. On this show, I'm talking to the brightest minds

in entertainment, health, wellness, and pop culture. And every week, we're going places in our communities, our careers, and ourselves. It's not about being perfect. It's about going on a journey and discovering the bright side of becoming. Few people know that better than soccer legend Ashlyn Harris. It's the journey. It's the people. It's the failures. It's the heartache. It's the little moment.

These are our moments to laugh, learn, and exhale. So join me every Monday. And let's find the Bright Side together. Listen to the Bright Side on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to hear the secrets of serial killers, psychopaths, pedophiles, robbers? sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing they're waiting for the unprotected i'm dr leslie forensic psychologist i advocate for safety and awareness of predators while wearing pink when you were described to me as a forensic psychologist i was like snooze we ended up talking for hours and i was like this girl is my best friend this is a podcast where i cut through the noise with sarcasm satire and hard truths i'm not going to fake it and force it but would you force an orgasm because that's like a different

layer the car accident you didn't want to see but couldn't turn away from in this episode i discuss personal safety and self-defense tools instincts and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high-risk situations listen to intentionally disturbing on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts with pinkberry it is love at first swirl, big thanks to Pinkberry, who has been serving up some delicious frozen yogurt treats today, where every flavor, whether it's original tart, pomegranate, or their new white mocha, is truly a front runner. And the only drama is choosing between your favorite premium toppings, whether you're

here for love or, let's be real, just the first. Froyo. Pinkberry's got your happily ever after. Find a location near you or order online at pinkberry.com. What's it like then? I mean, we're here with them right now. They were just sitting in the seats that you're sitting in. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not the man you are. Like, meaning like I would shrivel and be like, I don't want to go. I'm so nervous. I don't want to see them. This is going to be really awkward. I don't even be around it. So what has it been like for you two today to sit in the same space as them, confront these conversations, but then also be hanging out in the lunchroom with them? I think I'll say two points on that. The first is coming into today. I know my truth.

I know what I lived. And I think when you know the truth and you're okay with it, um, What do I have to worry? I didn't have any reason to worry. But also I think it's a huge test to our characters, all of us, Staling Kat included. I think that it takes big people to be able to sit here and have these conversations and it's not easy. And yeah, I think that the easy way out would be avoiding them and not even approaching the subject or sitting at the same lunch table. But I'm really proud of the way we've all handled it and move forward. Yeah, I feel like it's helpful to like sit there and like have these conversations hash it out. I feel like we did that here. And like now I feel a lot better about the situation than I did prior to coming in here. Because I will say I did still hold some resentment towards a lot of the people here. Just because truthfully, not the only person I reached out to me from the show where it's been like Brian and Jeremy. Like that's it.

Like I haven't talked to anybody really. So like obviously Alicia. So like coming in here like I almost felt like are they like, like I almost felt like I was walking into like an ambush. because I hadn't talked to these people for so long, but it really wasn't that bad. I thought it was good to have those conversations. And now, like, I wish, like, Dale and Kat the best. Like, I truly, like, I want them to work out.

I want them to be happy. Oh, man. I'm excited to see the next, like, couple months for them. I think, like, it's just now getting started when you can be public and, like, when you start spending more time with one another. And I wish them the best. I hope they work out.

That's what I'll say. You think they will? Yes. Do you think you two ever have a chance of working out? I've been trying. She's just kidding. I will say, like, it would be really tough, I think, for us and, like, what we look for in a relationship to do long distance. So whether or not our paths cross again, if we're in the same city or back in Tampa or in L.A., like, I think we would, I would be open to exploring things again.

But I think, like, right now, like me being in Tampa or her in L.A., like, we tried it. Like, our communication styles don't mix well with long distance at all. Like, I'm stubborn and she's stubborn. and be like, oh, she didn't text me back when she said to us, so I'm not going to text her back. Like, stuff like that, which, you know, it doesn't work long distance. We don't have that in Tampa.

Like, when we spent the time together, it's always like, yeah, everything, it felt like we were still in paradise. So, yeah, I think that's like, you know, we're focusing on our friendship right now, but if something happens to the future, like, we're going to cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yeah, I think that's all side. Say never say never. I never say never. Never say never. Never say never. That's how we're going to title this podcast. Guys, thanks for sitting down. Again, kudos to you for, for coming here today and confronting it and sitting in it.

And I do hope there's healing from it and revelation from it and that there is a better understanding from it and that all parties involved can move forward in the healthiest and happiest ways. For all of you, I did think today was in a lot of ways therapeutic. It wasn't always pretty. But it got the point across for so many. I wish you the best, Alicia, in your endeavors coming up. Whatever mystery, those may be.

They'll find out very soon. and Sean I hope to go off with you soon you're looking good in the green jacket it looks like it fits you thank you too by the way because you've always I've always I've listened to you guys you've always shot a straight where you kind of understand things and can

you always had my back in a way so I appreciate that one actually didn't always have my back so I you know what sometimes it doesn't come off like that but my hope is to never this is my hope was the bachelor nobody would ever come into that house and be upset that they did it.

Nothing more. Same thing here. I hope you don't come on the Almost Famous podcast and go, gosh, dang it. I wish I would have never agreed to it. It's not the place for that. We love talking to you. Thank you for having us.

Until next time I've been Ben, talk to you soon, guys. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders, In this episode, I offer tips from them.

I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to intentionally disturbing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you. places, through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never

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Thank you.