The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Rachael Speaks Out

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Rachael Kirkconnell has laid it all out after her sudden break-up from Matt James, and Ben and Ashley are ready to break it all down for you. Ben shares his opinion on what happened in Matt and Rachael’s relationship, and we find out what this means for each member of Bachelor Nation going forward.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. To give you the answers and you still blew it.

The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in.

That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie,

and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition.

Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses. Like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic. workplace. I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with Iheart Radio. It's an almost famous podcast. We are here for a very unexpected episode after a very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and Rachel, if you haven't heard yet, announced their split a little about a week ago. And just recently, Rachel came out and spoke publicly on the Call Her

Daddy podcast. We're here today to break down the interview and give our thoughts on what in the world happened, Ashley. Wow. Ben, well, first off, you said that they announced their breakup. We know that very much he announced their breakup. And it was shocking that he would decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup, especially as she is about to take off on a 12-hour flight from Tokyo back to the U.S. She talks about in the interview, how he even knew that she wasn't going to be able to get Wi-Fi on the plane. So how she found out that he posted about their breakup was a friend texted her just before she had to put her phone in airplane mode and then

she goes to Instagram sees his post and then legit the plane takes off she loses service and she has to just wonder what the world is saying for 12 hours Ben what was your takeaway

from all that we learned including that during this interview yeah I mean I would love to try to I mean breakups are always interesting on bat in bachelor nation breakups are hard and i think Alex did a great job

during this interview of um bringing to light just how hard breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the unhealthy things that happen within breakups we get to hear a lot of

their relationship throughout this interview and I think uh there's a few things if we can start there that really stand out to me not really how they met and even some of the stuff on the end of the show

and how they broke up and all that like they got through that. First half an hour you could skip through if you guys want to go listen to it if you want the full story and you want the background about the controversy back in 2020 and all that

watch the first half an hour but if you want to get to the current stuff fast forward to about 35 minutes and this is the part Ashley I think that first jumped out to me I watched the whole thing which I typically would never do but I was for whatever

I'm curious. Here's why I need your thoughts. The first part that stood out to me was Rachel kind of getting into the moments or the days before the breakup where the dinner. I am not a relationship expert

by no means. And I really sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still loves me. You know what? I feel the same way sometimes. I'm like, I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that I love. But one of the things, and I talked to Jess about this last night, I think one of the things that has made our, one of the many things that she does in our relationship, and one of the

things we do as a couple that has made our relationship work is we oftentimes, I would say 90% of the time, especially when we can, we sit down to dinner together and we catch up on our day. That's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask, what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day. And is there anything on your mind right now that we could talk about? And we let our conversation go from there. When Rachel said that when they sit down for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you want a recipe for a relationship to at some point get, have conflict, to feel out of touch, to have conflict, to have, you have, issues from a lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a dinner together

every time. Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer, Sidney, we were talking about this before we started recording. It was like every single meal that you guys go out to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules like once a week we don't record it. I mean, it could have been an overdramatization. It totally could have. But let's say, let's say it's 75% of the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's 50% of the time.

They're filming this dinners. Think about, Ashley, you're really good at this now, right? This comes very natural to you jumping on camera, you know, ready,

talking on a camera. But there's still a level of you turning it on when that phone starts recording. Right? Oh, yeah. You're aware of it.

You're not like just relaxed. You're working. And that camera's on at a dinner. it always is going to start or it's going to start feeling like work it's going to start feeling like okay can i have this bite of food is there going to be food on my face or hey can i ask matt this question about where he's at in our relationship and is he going to be upset with me because i'm going to want to do it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want to be filming and so we're going to have to spend 30 minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that matters and not just worrying about how the food looks or how it's plated or when the waiter's coming up to drop the dishes I would say I'm going to go this far. I'm going to give people advice out there. Don't do this. We just talked about it last week, Ashley.

One of the things for kids when they grew up in a house, that means the most of them over time is when they sat down with their family for dinner. It's a medical experience. So as a couple, do it, invest into that time. I'm not saying you can't ever film it. Or you can't take pictures of it. That's their job.

Yeah. But it felt like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey, this is getting overwhelming for me. Yeah, I felt bad because there's obviously, she was like so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that it was his job. And she knew how much weight just a restaurant choice would be that it would be a wasted meal if they went out. and it wasn't Instagram content. A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel that makes me feel,

just makes me feel, okay? There's like, it just, and he got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed that she picked the wrong place because she sort of felt like she failed him. And that kind of, it makes me feel, okay? And I was just thinking that he was like, her tears freaked him out.

And he was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how are you going to be when something actually bad happens? And I'm like, how do you not know this about her after four years? But also, come on now. We all have our moments. Like she said, she was like, I was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS. I was on my period. I was blah, blah, blah.

I was just not feeling like myself. And you have like those emotional breakdowns. So him being judge you over it. Well, no. But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things that Rachel has said during the show. So if you haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley's saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics. That picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts crying at the dinner.

So that's where I want to be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watched this yet, I don't know if people, like, listening will know what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at dinner because it was overwhelming for her to pick these dinners, that she had the stress of picking a dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted meal for Matt to shoot content at because they'd shot content at many of these things. And then the final point that I want to dig into with you here is when Rachel said historically when she gets, upset. Matt just gives her space. Yeah, and she doesn't want space, she says. She doesn't want space. And then, and Ashley, I want you to clarify this because I think this is the turning point in the relationship for them. Matt, once she starts crying at dinner and she's like, hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional. I just started my period. And I was like stressed out about picking the

spot, he says this. He says, how, how are you going to deal with some of the bigger things in life if something like this throws you off so much? It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't gotten annoyed at it before, you know, where he's like, can we just have a conversation without you crying? You know what I mean? But the way, I just think that a lot of the interview, to me, lends to the fact that I think Matt was looking for a way out for quite some time. And he didn't know how to do it. And there was moments in this trip to Tokyo that gave him his in.

Ashley, I think you're spot on from a perspective. Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean, Jessica is a very emotional human. Uh, like she, she sometimes cries just because she's happy. Like, I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't make me. I've never done that.

But like, if Whalen comes up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance Jessica's going to start crying. Uh, and it just happens that way. And so I understand Matt's, um, I bet over time. Matt was like, hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say that from my perspective, right? Because it is something you think about in a relationship.

However, I'll go back to this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them were ever in a practice of having deep conversations. I don't think so. I think it was I think it was very rare for them to actually dig in My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly And now I'm seriously suspicious Wait a minute Sam maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit Well Dakota it's back to school week on the okay story time podcast

So we'll find out soon This person writes my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot He doesn't think it's a problem but I don't trust her now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate.

Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet.

So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free Eye Heart Radio. video app, search emergency intercom, and listen now.

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance, bro, tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan. Starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because

they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse.

For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brom. Brown Ambition on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The general vibe that I got was that they were not as deep into a relationship as you would expect one to be after four years. That's a great way to say. I think there's practices and I think there's things done. I also think it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with. I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from a place of, if it's coming from a bad place, that kind of criticism could hit deep, right?

How am I expect, you know, how do I expect you to be a good partner to me if this is something that throws you off so much? The reverse of that in a healthy relationship is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's going to be big and little things that happen in life. And as a couple, we're on a team here. So how do we get through these things together so that neither of us get thrown off? Because when you get emotional, I get upset and confused and, you know, I want to run away. And when you get upset, you shut down. And so how are we going to deal with this together? Totally different conversation than the you statements.

Maybe it's more of an I statement that was needed is I feel like flustered when you get upset. So I need to know, you need in these moments. But you already said it. When I heard it, something had happened in his life. He was looking for this out. That's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was waiting for that moment to, you know, where all of a sudden it broke and he said, hey, we're done. This was not like a random event.

This was not her getting emotional. She was incredible during this interview of giving him the respect. oh so much the pains that she was feeling um and i think the one thing that maybe over time she'll realize is yes this was the moment that it ended it felt like in his mind it had ended before this she does mention that he said things really close to the breakup like i'm so happy you're my partner and stuff and that he even so many times on instagram said i'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening and I just feel like this was sort of

his way of talking him into himself into her being the one but I think he has known for quite some time that she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with and do you know what my theory is on the fact that he posted so soon after

I think he was like if I put this out there to the public it makes it so real that we can't go back on this decision Yeah. Well, the social media world reacted last night, very much against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to be able to see it. I do think it was, and she said that he has now owned up this and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry for how this went down. I do think it was incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship to share those. soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or friends yet and have the space to,

you know, heal a little bit before you walk into this, you know, this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the ground saying now we can move on, which leads me, actually, to the kind of the next point that most people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social media is Rachel said that since the breakup

they have been in communication and that Matt continues to call her to check in on her Yeah, don't like it but I understand what he's doing too Okay, so if we're going to give an explanation for Matt with and I want to be clear

with your start of the sentence being I don't like it and I don't like it either I don't think it's healthy but from a breakup perspective what do you think he's doing well i think that an expert would say that he's keeping her on the chain but my gut reaction and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely do this um there's just so much guilt like was it alex that mentioned the guilt or was it rachel i think it may have been both um he's

experiencing so much guilt that he just wants to make sure that she's okay and the person that I know that keeps people on Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking up with another person. But then the other interpretation of that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents the person that was dumped from moving on. Can I add an element into this that I think's happening? I don't want to say I think's happening here because I don't know the two of them well person i mean i don't know him personally at all so i can't say this is who he is or what he's doing but i i do know this from relationships and even things i've done in the past personally it there's a little bit of protection here too um where when you continue to communicate with that

person it's really hard or in your mind you think it's hard for them to go out and bash you it sounds like matt wants to be known and from rachel's words so it's what we take that he's a good guy you know he didn't mean he doesn't want to hurt her he doesn't want to hurt people i'm assuming that matt holds that character very in very high regard personally and so a little bit of this checking in could be a reminder to her of remember i'm a good guy i still care about you i don't want you hurting what can i do in this moment i don't think it's healthy. I think it's a, I think he needs to stop it because what it does do is it does all the things you said. It keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected to her. It strings this

thing along. It does selfishly satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh, I still him checking in on her. He needs to stop it because breakups are that. You have to rip the bandaid off as soon as possible and you have to allow both people to move on, even if it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's a level of personal protection. when it comes to moments of letting, like, continuing to communicate with somebody, just so they are reminded, which is so hard now that I say it like this, after you broke up with them, just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still like, how you've always know. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Also, an element of, like, it being a public breakup, I'm thinking that, like, he's also checking up on her how to, how she's doing with the, like, the media and the fandom.

sure but you know what do you do would he do this if it weren't for that probably but do i think it would be appropriate for him to have one phone call with her after landing back from tokyo absolutely they definitely needed to have another phone call could he have texted her a few days after that phone call how you're holding up something like that that'd be okay what it sounds like is that they're having long conversations on the phone yeah it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with her more often that's healthy. And it sounds like she now has been clear to him that that's no longer what she needs or wants.

And you know what? I have no doubt from this conversation that there was love, a lot of love between the two of them. And so this is going to be really hard to move on from, but they need to move on from it. I think that's when it came to my public breakup, that was the best advice I was ever given, was, hey, almost in a sense. and this is what was said to me. So I'll say it.

Suck it up, rip the Band-Aid off, and start to heal. Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of the past. Stop letting your mind wander to good and bad places. Stop, you know, remembering all the reasons why it led up to this point. Rip the Band-Aid off, put your stake in the ground, and step forward into life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to move on. You both need to move on. They're hopefully, I believe they're both going to find new partners at some point.

That's going to be another weird moment for the two of them, right, to start to build something new from scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally, especially when a breakup kind of happens out of nowhere, as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise. And so in her mind, she never led up to this point, right? she was still picturing kids and a marriage with this man and then this breakup happens she needs to he needs to let her go

so that she can start to come to terms of the fact that this is over this is done my boyfriend's professor is way too friendly and now I'm seriously suspicious oh wait a minute Sam maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit well Dakota it's back to school week on the okay storyt

podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now hold up, isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. And it's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, Do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not?

To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental...

illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance, bro? Tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition.

This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand.

It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc.

And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former. believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. The last 10 minutes or so, Alex really just takes girl time with her and is like, I want you to know, like, you're going to look back on this interview in about six months and

you're going to be so happy that this is over, you're going to find someone so great for you and you're going to realize why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking with our producer sitting before this. We have, it's been so long since we saw Rachel on the show. And even on the show, we didn't get to know her that well. And even through social media, they have separate themselves from The Bachelor a lot of it

has been like food and travel related and she hasn't exposed a lot of herself so this is like one of the first

times we really got to know her she has been mysterious I'm really glad that she did this interview I think Alex did a great job walking

Rachel through it pointing out some of the things that Rachel was saying that you feel in a relationship like Rachel was bringing up that

you know she felt like she was apologizing a lot. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really good at kind of pointing out like, hey, Rachel, you're saying this and I get why you feel this and I understand who you are as a human. But that isn't true, right? Not everybody's going to make you feel this way. And so don't live in that lie. I thought that was great. And I'm really glad Rachel did the interview.

granted, if she was never a public figure, this would feel very weird, right? But it does, I think she was respectful to Matt. I think she was respectful to the relationship, even if maybe she doesn't fully feel that all the time. But she also gave us a glimpse of who she is. And I think she is a beautiful person who we've seen publicly be very funny and who is very empathetic and very kind and very wise. And so now, I don't think this was a good thing for Matt. Like, I don't think people are going to love him anymore. Yeah.

But I do think this was a good thing for her to do to kind of give her perspective on everything, kind of own, you know, this moment, and say, this is who we were, this is who we are, this is who I want to be going forward. So I have nothing but great things to say about Rachel. and I agree with what Alex and Matt actually said, Rachel is going to have a beautiful next season of life. Yeah, totally. And I do want to just touch before we leave on the fact that that was an ongoing theme

that she had to apologize. In every fight that got, she felt as if it was like a full circle. Like she kind of started the argument and then she found herself at the end of it like apologizing for the argument. And I think that looking back, that could also be a hint that he was trying to start fights. And if they wanted to be ended, she had to end them because he may have wanted to secretly end of the relationship. Or it could just be a crappy quality and something that you have a relationship with. Yeah. I mean, possibly.

I think it's probably an immaturity in communication. I have, Jessica and I have this often in our relationship. It is something that we've gone to couples counseling for to try to get better how we communicate in the midst of arguments. It is never intentional on either of our parts to make that loop come back to the person, but it's happened many times. And now we kind of have a joke about it because of how many times it's happened where it's like at the end of a conversation. that maybe we came into saying something like I was hurt or I was, I'm feeling this way. And then all the end, we're like, the person that brought it up is the one apologizing. We have a joke like that was wild.

Wait, this is actually so relatable. Now I'm taking back what I'm thinking because, yeah, so oftentimes the person that says like, oh, that was, you know, who snaps is like, well, obviously the snapper would say sorry for snapping. but yeah to apologize for the thing that the argument starts over i understand totally so i don't think maybe it was as uh i think if most couples in relationship thought about it like that can happen because oftentimes the person reacting i think yeah is coming from an emotional spot and it could be true and it could not be but that person oftentimes does end up apologizing because the other person's like i never meant it that way i was just saying that and

passing or I was trying to make a joke with you or whatever like that was not coming from a place of trying to hurt you so the best way I think to close these conversations if there is a healthy way sometimes and this is what we learned through therapy is just to end the conversation with hey I love you and give a hug and like we're good like because if you take it on forever like if you draw these arguments out all the time it's going to have to end with somebody apologizing because that's just kind of a good way to close it and I think that was what happening. These were just going in loops instead of just saying, okay, I hear you, I understand where

you're coming from, and I love you. That was not coming from, but that Twitter, or X reacted pretty strongly to that. And I get how, because it does sound like every time she was apologizing, I just heard it and I was like, I, in the midst of a relationship, those moments happen. Or maybe I'm just unique and I'm a terrible dude too. And that's how, like, no. No, I appreciate you bringing up the other side. But I don't want to be an apologist. So in closing here for Matt, I think what he did and how he broke this up. Breakups, we should not, like, demonize somebody for having a breakup. This is going to be the

best thing for Rachel in the end. Like, she's going to be great. The two big things that I think people can get on for Matt, if you're looking to get on for something, is obviously the post time. and the fact that he didn't get her approval for any of that. And secondly, for stringing her along for so long, four years is so long. She's in, she's 29, you know, so she's, it's not like she's wasted like 18 through 22, you know? Yeah.

These are formative dating years. She was like really thinking that she was with the person that she was going to be with forever. If he had had doubts for a while, he needed to stop stringing her along. Yes. I, I think there was many. manipulative behavior on his like it um i think that he strung her along i think that how he did the breakup showed a level of a lack of wisdom and a lack of empathy and a lack of care i don't want to be an apologize for matt i'm just saying some of this stuff i think we react strongly to it

when we don't see the plank in our own eye and say oh yeah i could i have actually i have those same struggles in relationship. I have those same dynamics sometimes and my healthy, loving marriage. Some of this stuff was just bringing to light some things that a lot of us could relate with if we look inside of our own relationships and own some of the mistakes that we make as well. So I don't, and I don't want to demonize him for having this breakup. Breakups happen.

again, I think it's going to be for the best for both of them. I don't think he was the right match for Rachel. I think Rachel's going to find somebody incredible here and somebody that treats her consistently with love, care, empathy, and looks at her with these awestruck eyes every day, like how in the world did I get lucky enough to be with you? I believe that's coming her way. I do too.

And I'm excited for that chapter for her. I also want to say that I do think for a breakup to happen so recently, Rachel gave a level of respect, care, consideration, and wisdom. If I was Matt, I think it would be awkward and kind of like feel weird to see this interview happen. But if I listened to it, I would walk out of it. it going i get it uh i can't really be mad at you for the doing this i hope he's not and even if he is i don't know if it matters now uh but yeah i think he was in the wrong i just don't i would the one thing i refuse to do is to sit here and say oh my gosh how could he break up with her that's not the point the point is how he did it totally and the actions afterwards now

a really good point she said you're going to be so grateful that he put that post out without your knowledge and so quickly because you looking back on this being like this was just a great guy and a great guy that I wanted to be with is going to hurt you for so much longer. You looking back and knowing that he did this is going to be what prevents you from wanting to go back. You needed a boom, you know? Yeah. She needed that stake in the ground. Maybe that's it, right? And I think that subconsciously, consciously, I don't know, Matt maybe sort of knew that. Mm-mm. No.

You think it was fully selfish that he did the post? Yeah, I do. Okay. I think there was only, I think 100%, maybe the only thing I can think that might have happened, again, I don't know Matt, but my guess is maybe he thought it, he did it thinking that he would benefit from it.

Like there was some world in which he thought he would, like, benefit from this post. The benefit is that he, I mean, in my point, opinion. The benefit is that he put it out there so that it was done. He's like, I'm, my hands are clean of this relationship. Not knowing it was going to skyrocket Rachel into the spotlight now for a long time. And I think that's awesome. It's kind of like an Arianamatic situation, right? Except for he wasn't a dirty, dirty cheater. I think it'll be great for her. And I love that. I do. yes she already has a million views on this podcast after 12 hours and that is the views on

YouTube not the listens included yeah she's going to do just well Alex Cooper I guess is going to do just fine my goodness gracious I don't know what her numbers are like usually after 12 hours but holy molly I have to assume this is a big one uh hey in summary uh Rachel's Awesome. She had a great interview. Alex did do a great job walking through this interview and facilitating the interview. I guess the hope in any breakup, especially public, is that they both can move on now. And the biggest takeaway from me is like stop communicating and start moving on because the future is very bright for Rachel, especially right now. And I think she's excited to start a family and to be in relationship. So go out and listen to it if you haven't yet. This was our breakdown kind of of the thing said and the thoughts that came to our mind during this interview. But if you haven't listened to it yet,

it's very much worth the time if you're curious about somebody's breakup to go out and listen to it. So until next time, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. See you guys. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcast.

Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. To give you the answers and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or...

wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercoms the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. search emergency intercom, and listen now. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth.

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money?

No thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses, like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the I Heart Radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.