The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Reality Stars in Sororities with Cindy Cullers from The Golden Bachelor

Episode Date: March 1, 2026

Before she tried to win Mel’s heart, she was a Delta Gamma. Anchor Down!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on my IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Joe Interestine, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology,

natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast, starting on February 24th, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. Listen to the Sixth Bureau on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Lettby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? Evidence has been made to fit.

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, on the eye. IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Dirty Rush, The Truth About Sorority Life, with your host, me, Gia Judice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Fessler. Hi, guys, welcome back to another episode of Dirty Brush.

Today, I am joined by a very special guests who knows a thing or two about sorority life at a big Southern school, just like me. She's a proud sorority alum turned sorority mom just like me, and you, may also recognize her from the latest season of the Golden Bachelor, Cindy Colors. Welcome to Dirty Rush. Hey. Hey, hey. Dirty Rush, what a salacious name. Is that the best? It's totally the best. It gives us permission to talk openly and freely. Well, because it's rush, as we both know, can be good and dirty, right? Well, okay, so I already introduced you as going to a big Southern school. Tell everybody, first of all, where you are. I live currently in downtown Austin, home of University of Texas, which is where you went to school.

That's right. I went to school north of here in Dallas at SMU. I was a delta gamma at SMU. Proud Gigi. You know, we've talked to a lot of SMU sorority girls. And I don't know if it was as intense when you were there. I think we're probably around the same age here. I might be a little older, but these girls go through it now at SMU.

Even back in the day. So I was there before we had the death. I was actually there when we had the death penalty. I was cheering for SMU when we went through the death penalty. And that really changed sororities a little bit. Well, actually a lot. When I was there, 80% of the people who could rush did rush. So it was heavily panellitic.

If you weren't part of the Greek system, you just, like, you just were in the absolute minority. So, or an athlete. What is, okay, so I'm just going to ask you, I should know what you're talking about, but when you say the death penalty, explain that. Our football team got penalized and we were pretty much kicked up. It's like a house being kicked off campus. Our athletic system got shut down.

Our football system got shut down. And we weren't able to play football or give scholarships for quite some time. And we're now back. But, you know, football, SMU, we were top 10 back when I went there. Yep. I was going to say to our listeners, a lot of our listeners relate to that. Some don't, but football is the thing. In the south, it was. And you know what's interesting.

You know, you have a campus where your stadium is, firstly on campus. Ours wasn't. We played at Cowboy Stadium. So the stories and fraternities would bust the people over for the games, which made it even more of a social outing. So football was kind of real cornerstone and a lot of what we did. So tell us a little bit about your rush process. Did you rush first or second semester? SMU has a, SMU had a spring rush.

I think they've now moved to a fall rush. My first year, as a freshman, I was in my friend's wedding from high school. She got married that January, so I was not able to attend rush. So I went through as a sophomore, which made it a little bit unique for me, I think. Well, we have a lot in common. I went through as a junior, actually, because I transferred to UT. It transferred back home. Where did you transfer from?

I transferred Boston University. Okay. Boston University was another one of my alternatives to SMU. I don't know. I went. I grew up. I went to high school in Houston, and all of my friends were like, we're going out of state. I don't know why, because UT is just the best.

SMU is such a great school. There are so many great schools in Texas. Girl, we're going to have to hang. I'm from Houston, too. Yeah? I'm from Sugarland. No, I'm from up north in the sticks. Wow.

We do have a lot in common. All right. So, well, tell me a little bit. So right, so it was different. So freshman year you were making friends. You were not in a sorority, but, you know, I'm guessing that you were making friends and finding your place, right? Making good friends.

You know, if you rush in the spring, there are a lot of restrictions on what parties you can go to. And I'm kind of a rule follower with that. So I didn't really get hooked into meeting a lot of the girls from the different sororities during that fall semester. I knew I wouldn't go through rush, but I was still, you know, very interested in making friends. So I made friends. And then I actually was privileged to cheer on the Palm team and then the cheer team. How cool is that? Oh, my gosh, especially for top 10 school.

It was phenomenal. Best seats in the house. Oh, my God. Wait, so you were a big cheerleader in high school as well, right? You know, I'm God's favorite person. I think I was not, I'm not a good cheerleader, I'm not a tumbler, I've never taken a dance class in my life, I'm a really good copy. And I love sports, so I know sports, and I'm fearless.

So we were not co-ed in high school. I found a partner in college who was a male cheerleader, and he kind of helped me with some of the partner stunts. and it's just really fun and I don't know that I was good at it. I just enjoyed it a lot. What did you think of the rush process? So rush for me was very interesting. Coming through as a sophomore,

obviously I had some girls on the team that were in different houses. And I'll be super honest with you. The Delta Gamma house was the only house when I went through. They weren't, they didn't say, oh, here's Cindy. Remember, she's the pompom girl. Like the only house that really liked me for me in my. in was the Delta Gama house. And I love that about them because, you know, cheering today, maybe not tomorrow. And that's not who I wrap my identity in. I'm a biomedical engineer. I have a

really tough degree plan. And, you know, I'm a good friend. I was a good sister. You know, so there's a lot of things about me that I felt made me, you know, more unique than she's a pompom girl. Looking back at it, after hosting Rushies, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, understand that's like the quick that's a shorthand to trying to draw a reference like remember she's only talked about who does this so i get that but going through i was a little bit offended that the reason i felt that they were interested in me is because i had a spot on the pompon team so i think that's that's interesting i i'm looking at you now and so seeing obviously you are a beautiful woman and i'm guessing that you were stunning back then as well and i think but i think

that a lot of girls going through think that the physical is what's important, right, in terms of getting asked. Let's be super clear. I am the queen of shopping on Amazon and looking like sacks, like honestly, and I felt the same back in the day, and I didn't have the refinement that especially SMU girls had. Boy, these girls came in, you know, from prep schools and with history of lots of money and I spent gladly I spent every summer of my life on a farm in Nebraska. So I'm sure I was not dressed appropriately for Rush. You know, I think it's sad, but some of those physical cues are what people do look at, I'm sure. But I didn't have it.

I didn't have it all together either back when I was back in college for sure. You know, I just, I love that our listeners can hear that. So, you know, I'm guessing that you were absolutely gorgeous like you are now. You were a pom-pom girl, but you were looking for a sorority that would see past that and see, right, into sort of more of who you were and that you were so smart. And I hope that our listeners really hear that, right? And find, you know, like-minded girls that care about what they care about. I think that's so challenging. It's your home. It's your sisterhood. It is the family that you get to choose outside of your, you know, your significant other. It truly is a family you get to choose. And I will say that, how do I say this kindly to those other sororities who are still very good friends with some of these women, but they still are wondering about my accomplishments and what I can do in some of those outward things. And when I'm with some of my DG sisters, the culture of that house was back then and still is today with those women. How are you?

It's so fun to be with you. They just really enjoy the essence of who I am and me with them. And so, you know, just there's a fingerprint to every house, and it does morph and it does change because the women in the house will morph and change. But find your home. For goodness sakes, you have a chance to pick people who accept you and love you. Don't, this is not the time to reach into something that you're not. A hundred percent, I agree.

It's funny. Now the girls talk about the sororities. and the fraternities being top tier. Have you heard this? I don't remember, I don't remember that expression back. Oh, I do. I definitely do.

I definitely do. And I honestly, top tier was, it was not irrelevant to me because, you know, I have, you know, I just felt like a top tier sorority

would offer me top tier people, and that's who I typically align with. I wanted really smart people, really kind people, really nice people, and a top tier sorority will typically have those. So,

being top tier wasn't, you know, it was part of my consideration. I'll be completely honest and transparent. I appreciate that. I don't know that, and I could be wrong, but a lot of times, like my daughter, who was in a sorority at University of Delaware, when she was looking at top tier, I feel like so much of that was about what the girls look like, you know. Oh, interesting. And so by top tier, they were ranked sort of, you know,

I don't know, the prettiest girls, they were in the top tier. And I just absolutely hated that. And, I mean, listen, she found a sorority and she absolutely loved it and had a blast. And I had that, you know, back at UT when I was rushing. I knew that there were more, the prettier girls went here. The sweeter, I don't know. It was all of that. Yeah, no, there is like the fingerprint that we just talked, yeah, kind of talked about the fingerprint of it.

But honestly, if you get a new girl who's beautiful, then doesn't that change? the fingerprint. Yes. So if your daughter decided to go to the sorority that didn't have the pretty girls, and clearly she's got good change, she's got to be gorgeous. She went to the one with whatever, the gorgeous girls. But, you know, I was not a gorgeous girl. And I got into a, I believe it.

And I got into a sorority because when I transferred, my friends were all in it already. So, like, my three roommates were AE-Fi. So there was no question that that's, where I was going. And, you know, I looked back on it. I had a great time. I wonder if that was exactly where I belonged, though, you know, and I didn't, I knew that that's, you know, where I was going to end up. But I don't know, there's, it's really like every sorority, like it has a different, like we just said, fingerprint and is that we said, is it fingerprint, footprint, what's the expression? Anyway, fingerprint. Because everyone's, everyone's unique. Yes, everyone's unique, right? And it's

just important, I think, to be open to that when you're going through the rush process. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic, Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast, starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. Arminolick Lamouba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's

Al-Mermata, Morehouse College. The students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King, Senior, and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all. walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story.

We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, fake when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story. this show is for you.

Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now

the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy. Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Lettby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that

lived in, to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Lettby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Was it as intense for you as I picture at SMU, though? Was it, you know, do you look back at that very short period of time

and were you conflicted? Were you, you know, was it filled with anxiety? Like it is for so many girls? I think walking into the mansion gave me more anxiety than walking into rush because I was, a year older than the girls. I did know people in the houses. So that was, that probably gave me a lot more security. I tell you what I didn't have, I wasn't going around house to house with a bunch of girls that I'd spent time with in the dormitory. So I was fished out of the water when I was on the

sidewalk. Once I was in the house, I was probably more comfortable because I went through later. Harder to walk into the mansion, huh? Yeah. I mean, you're, you're competing for a one guy and you're watching all these women come in and they're absolutely stunning and all wearing beautiful ballgowns and just gorgeous women. Even at our age though, isn't that interesting? It's like, and I'm guessing you feel the same way. But I, so obviously I'm 57. I'm a very different woman than I was when I was, you know, 23.

But that experience that you had is so unique, right? I'm wondering if it felt at all, though, sort of like the same thing. right? We talk about it a lot. I've got, I'm very close friends with a lot of the women of the house. We just took a trip with a subgroup of us. It was Robin, Carol, Jerry, and Amy. We all went to Palm Springs. And it was Jerry's first trip, girls trip ever. She's like, another was in a sorority. And this is what she thought being in a sorority would feel like. And for those of us who have been in a sorority, it absolutely feels like. You know, you go through something that's unique and special and you share it together, that common bond, you know, from the show, we kind of call it a trauma bond. Yes.

I mean, that's what that's what it looks like as a viewer. So yeah, maybe less so in the sorority world. But, you know, you go through a shared experience and it can't help it bond you together. And I do think because the sororities have different fingerprints, they do tend to find, you know, women who are alike. And for our season of the Golden Bachelor, I feel like we all share different facets of one another. Like there wasn't another duplicate of Cindy. There was no copy and paste of any of us.

But if I looked at the family orientation that I have, I would find that really in common with Carol and Mylene and some of the fun aspects and some of the foodie aspects and some of the don't care how my hair looks aspects, you know, I would share that with some other women. So different facets of myself that I could find in my sorority sisters I was finding in the house with my mansion mates. Yeah. Tell me, since you are talking about home, and I'm wondering, I know you're also a sorority mom, right?

But first, let me ask you, was your mom very involved in your rush process? Not at all. Not at all. Mine either. No. I mean, she wasn't a sorority. And, yeah, I know I was pretty much on my own. And honestly, when my kids went through rush, I was going through some stuff in my marriage that I wish I could be a little bit more helpful to them.

Of course, I helped them get wrecks. And that's an aggressive process. Yeah. Holy cow, wrecks nowadays. Yeah. I feel bad for the girls going through it. And especially for anybody who doesn't have family members who have gone through it just to have somebody guide them. I've heard now it's a little, they don't take that as seriously.

Even legacy does not. Oh, definitely not legacy. Yeah. Doesn't help like these do. Even when my kids went through, yeah, there's just too many. There's just too many legacies. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So your sister's brothers and were any of them in Greek life? No, my brother and my sister did not participate in the Greek system. Okay. My daughter, my older daughter did. She went to University of Arkansas and dropped from her sorority senior year. It just didn't serve her anymore. Yep. And so she dropped.

And then my middle daughter went to Baylor and she was a Kappa. And she stayed Kappa the whole time. She was in a Kappa house off campus with a bunch of Kappa sisters there. And that was a super sweet group for her to hang with. And that was really my first time to have like the mother daughter, sorority daughter experience. Right. Right. And then my younger one is a dancer in L.A.

and so she didn't have campus, she didn't have any campus life, so to speak. She did online at Purdue. I don't think you could do sororities online yet, even through COVID. Listen, AI is coming, baby. You're not going to leave your house much longer to be a frat party.

It's hard to be a mom watching your daughter and your case daughters go through the process. How did they go through the rush process? Did they have a difficult or an easy time with it? Sarah, my oldest had a perfect, rush. So she had literally the perfect rush. So she never got cut and she got to pick a house and she loved the house and loved the girls. So that was easy. And so for the second, you know, we'd already talked through it with Sarah. The two older girls were just one grade apart. So it got it.

Like Sarah went through. Then the next year, Emily went through. And honestly, I think because we had a chance to talk through all of it with Sarah, Emily was watching very. Yeah. intently. And so her mindset was like aligned. She was fine. I think you just have to, honestly, I think you have to let go of the outcome. Yeah. Like so many things. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's a lesson. It took me a long time to learn. The whole enjoy the journey thing is, I was older when I sort of got that. But right, I think that for a lot of girls, and we've talked to a lot of girls about this, you know, your head is set on one sorority. And it just, it could ruin the experience for you, right?

It can ruin your college. We know girls who have transferred colleges because they don't get into what they consider the right sorority. And it's just a shame because, I mean, there could be a different match, you know, just could be a different match for them that might end up better that they don't see. Yeah. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life.

And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach. approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms,

on different houses, and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm in a lick Lamouba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almermata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King's senior and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die.

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you do in the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story.

We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity, when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict? A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, doubt the case of Lucy Lettby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people. people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Lettby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the

British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Lettby on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We had a mom come on. It was one of the first pause that I recorded and talking about how her daughter had gone through the rush process at SMU and how at the end of it, I hope that I'm remembering this correctly, I think everyone gets together and I guess the sorority comes and grabs you or something like, am I remembering this correctly? Yeah, we did that in Arkansas and all the girls are at the stadium and they come and get grabbed by their sorority and there are some girls who don't. I don't, I don't, I, listen, Panolitic better be smarter about that.

If you have a girl who doesn't get a bid, whoever their rush coaches needs to have a conversation with them and pull them from that stadium, that can't happen. That's so cool. Well, this mom had it happened to her daughter two years in a row. And so, you know, we were talking about it. It's just horrible. And I, it's horrible. Yeah, I think it was SMU.

But again, like, you go to the middle of campus. I don't know. But that kind of stuff is just awful. And, you know, I don't know. It's the whole system, the whole, I had a great experience. You had a great experience. And it really is a sisterhood that can set you up for life. And life also, you deal with rejection.

That's just part of it. We all have to deal with it. But it's harsh. It can be harsh, depending on the school, right? I mean, I feel like, you know, the southern schools are more intense. Definitely. I mean, I think the situation in the stadium, that just literally breaks my heart. I'm sick to my stomach about that.

But in general, I look at, you know, my whole sorority experience was divergent. You know, I didn't pledge until I was a sophomore. I was very entrenched with, yeah, with my degree plan. I had a double major, and I was taking every semester I had an eight o'clock class, and I had 18 hours every semester. And I'm trying to cheer and the travel debt that's required and the practices. all the sorority stuff. And so I was, we look back and I laugh. I was barely a DG. So you didn't hold any, you didn't hold any office. I did. So I actually, my junior year,

my junior year, I was thinking about, you know, deactivating because financially, I, you know, I had no money. And it was a steep requirement to go to SMU, even on full scholarship. There's always incidental stuff. Do you tell me you went on a full scholarship? Girl, it's a lot here for me to take in. I can't get over you. Who am I speaking to? You know, like I said, God's favorite, God's favorite, my sister. You're my favorite.

That's even better. Go on. So I feel that, you know, it's going to deactivate. And my house, I went to the, I had to sit in front of the board and all these, you know, the alumni and the sisters that I knew and respected and loved and cherished and just said, listen, here's where I am. I can't do this anymore. And they said, give us a week.

And I came back after a week and they found what they call a secret Hannah. So it's a secret alumni who paid for not just all of my dues at the sorority, but she paid. It was required that I move into the house for a year, which what, I mean, obviously I had room and board with my scholarship, but what a gift. Yeah. Do they still do they look to you? I'm going to tear up right now.

And I felt so beholden. to that sorority for reaching out to me and helping me through that. And so the other requirement is that I do the same for another DG in the same circumstance. And it's been, it's a privilege. It's secret. I have no idea who she is. You're going to, this is the nicest thing I've ever heard. This is at the top of my list of why you should join a sorority.

That's, I never even heard of this. I guess, maybe it happens at other campuses as well. That is just amazing. Wow. And now you're doing it for someone. Yeah, and you take a girl who felt like she just wasn't worthy of the house because I can't afford it. And you make her feel like a queen, a princess. And so, I mean, I've always had leadership positions and what I do.

I enjoy it. You know, if you're going to be there anyway, you might as well lead it because you're going to stay on what time you get out. I think they wanted me to be rush here, which would be such a privilege and it would be an honor. But, you know, I had kind of a higher profile on campus and I think they thought that would be good. I like honestly I would have failed them because I didn't have the bandwidth to make that happen. So I was her panellanic representative and so I got to sit on the board with the other houses and kind of talk through some of the sorority rush things. That's why the whole like if there are girls left on campus I'm going to I'm going to retouch back with my people at SMU because that just as a panellonic member we never would have let that happen. Yeah I definitely heard that from one of our sorority moms that it was just horrible for her. daughter. You know, you get those stories. It definitely, you know, I don't know, that which doesn't kill us makes a stronger. That's what I want to say. Yeah. Yeah, like through the process, you know, I didn't have the money to continue and they made it happen. I, you know, I went through as a sophomore

instead of a freshman and like all these things that weren't perfect added up and were knit together into such a beautiful story. And it's my story. It's not a traditional story. It's my story. Yeah. sororities. And I hope that anybody listening to this considers, just open yourself up to knitting a new story. It may not be what you've expected nor what you wanted, but it's your story. Yeah. And to make it what you want, right, to make the whole experience what you want. And I agree. When I went through it, I remember just being so, even with knowing that my roommates were all in FI, I was so insecure. And were you nervous about getting into the house? You've been with your roommates there?

Yes, even with that. I was just nervous. I mean, UT is big. And we went into a lot of houses where I didn't feel like I fit in. Even though it was just the rush process, I knew I wasn't going to end up in some of these sororities. I was a Jewish girl who was probably going to end up in a Jewish sorority. So, you know, going through the house through Tridelt, I wasn't holding my breath thinking I was going to get in. But I just remember everyone, it felt like everyone was just beautiful and blonde and fit.

And I just wasn't. And it was, I remember it taking its toll, you know. Yeah. And in a, especially at a school like UT, you know, there's a, there's a field to it. And I moved to Texas when I was nine. I was a little bit of a fish out of water. this is not about me, but sometimes I just can't seem to help it. No, I find this fascinating.

I've got 18 more questions for you, so hold on. Oh, oh, God. Well, listen, I, again, I want to hear more about your experience. But I just, yeah, it was hard on me, I think. Even knowing that I was probably going to get into FI, I was pretty sure. But even with that, going to the different houses and looking at all these girls and feeling not as good as, not as pretty as, not as all of that. but, you know, I look back at it as you get older, it would have been nice to do it now.

Although, listen, you said it was, look what you had to go through. It's just as hard. It's just as hard. And all those things that we felt as a young girl, I think we still feel at our age. And I think we'll feel it the rest of our lives. And the same diversity of people that we had to deal with back in a sorority, those people that you felt were judging you or whatever.

We still, I mean, don't you feel that now? I mean, we could care less about it. I do. Going into the mansion, I would have definitely felt it. So I don't have a lot of situations like that. You know, that's intense. At least that's what it looks like, where I'm, you know, hoping to attract the attention of one man, whatever that looks like. But so that would have, yes, I would definitely felt a lot of anxiety around that. But I do feel like at my age, I don't have a problem walking into a room anymore and feeling, you know, that comes with age. I tell that to my kids all the time. But I don't, I don't get a lot of insecurity about, you know, new

situations, meeting people. Again, walking into that mansion in that circumstance would have made me very self-conscious, I think. I used to tell my kids, you know, in these circumstances, just remember, just think of a basket, a little wicker basket with a fluffy pillow stuffed with a bunch of speckled puppies. Just imagine. Every, every one is so. cute and so adorable and they're all so different whether they have a spot on their nose or a spot on their back or whatever distribution we're all just a basket full of speckled puppies and if we could just remember that as we walk into the world wouldn't that be nicer and instead of looking at just the front row of those girls as they're cheering and singing their songs look into the back row

and find those speckled puppies right because they're they're in every house yeah that's so great I absolutely love that. I'm going to use that, except I'm not going to tell my daughter where it came from. I'm going to completely steal it. She might like it if it just didn't come from you. No, I'm not. Fair enough. That's true. That's true. We'll change the Forrest Gump. Life is like a box of chocolate. No, life is like a basket of speckled puppies. Have you seen Punch, by the way? This is just another aside. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. No, is it great? Should I see it? No, it's not a show. It's about that monkey in Japan. I'm only bringing it up. Oh, yeah, I know.

You just said Spangled Puppy. Yes. And then, oh, Punch, it's like a sorority house. Have you, did you see it? We've got to rename the monkey. We've got to rename it. I know. I know.

I know. 100%. Listeners, if you haven't seen it, don't look it up. My daughter was so hysterical crying for two days. I couldn't get her out of bed. But the story in the end, at least that's what I, what they're showing me on TikTok, Punch has found his way. And girls, you will find.

your way. He was rejected and rejected, but now he has a friend. Maybe there's like, there's a good, it's a good analogy somehow. I don't know. Or maybe I'm just, you know, grasping at straws. But before we lose you, and I don't really, really don't want to, but will you tell us, is there any more you could tell us about the Golden Bachelor, any secrets or experiences or anything that we wouldn't know? I will say that to all of the girls who are listening, you know, sisterhood is out there, whether it has Greek letters on it, or it is just where you work, where you go to the gym, where you have Pilates, your running group, your church, all of those are sisterhoods and they're all sororities. And I found a new sisterhood surprisingly in the mansion. I came there to find a man. And as Robin said, in the final Rose episode or in the tell. all. She said, the real love story of our show is the women. And so I found a whole new sorority set on the show of The Golden Bachelors. So just be available and aware. And I encourage everyone

who is considering going through Rush to absolutely go through with an open heart and to find your sisterhood. Just go ahead, dive in. If it might be your second or third choice, but in the end, it's going to be the best place for you. Don't you feel like, like the golden bachelor and bachelorette, the first one. What's his name? The first bachelor? Chalk. Oh, Chuck.

You're talking about it for Gary. Gary was the first golden bachelor. Yes. Okay. So Gary. Okay, I can't keep up. But anyway, the men bonded and at, right? And then you saw them together and them talking about how they'd found this brotherhood.

And you're talking about how through this experience you have found these sisters. and so and that feeling there's just nothing like it and that is the point of of going Greek I think right there's nothing like absolutely and it but but and you'll find it throughout your life like I'm sure when your kids were involved in sports or activities I know some of my other closest friends were people I sat in the bleachers with for all those years right right and you know you just learn to knit your life together with someone and that is one of the blessings of going through the bonds that you get in a sorority as you learn how to knit your life to someone. And you learn that that's safe. Yeah. Right? It's a good place. It's a great safety net for us all. Yeah, I love that. You're amazing.

Can't thank you enough. It's been fabulous to have you on. And I think our listeners are really lucky. I think there's some really good stuff here. So thank you, my friend. I appreciate you. My new friend. It's really great to connect with you. Thank you. You too. All right, guys. So we will see you next time on another episode of Dirty Rush. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Dirty Rush podcast. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between.

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