The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - RHOM’s Alexia Nepola brings in a professional to improve her love life

Episode Date: November 22, 2025

With her divorce in her rearview mirror, RHOM's Alexia Nepola is ready to do the work!  Dr. Hillary joins her for an intimate one-on-one session to get to the heart of healing, why certain patterns happen when it comes to who we date, and how to process emotions when going through a traumatic divorce.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The best dates happen when someone really gets your vibe, your niche references, your hot takes, even your reality TV obsessions. That's why it's so exciting to be partnering with Bumble. Dating feels easier on Bumble with prompts that show off your personality, shared interests that help you find common ground, and verification that gives you peace of mind that you're meeting someone real. So if you're ready to meet someone who really gets you in your energy, Bumble is the perfect place to start. waiting for download bumble and start your love story a decade ago i was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers but it wasn't until twenty twenty three when he was finally caught the answers were there hidden in plain sight so why did it take so long to catch him i'm josh zeman

and this is monster hunting the long island serial killer the investigation into the most notorious killer in new york since the son of sam available now listen for free on the iheart radio app Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long.

I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Chris Jenner.

Even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex-partner, you still love them as part of the unit and the family. These are the fathers of my grandchildren, and that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times with them. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, TDJ, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon for a conversation about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted. I mean, I don't take any credit for it.

It's nothing I did as special, you know, then knocked down a few pegs and recognized it, but I just didn't put me first. I just put God first, and he's carried me. Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak to you. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever. you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. Don't miss one of them. Welcome back to I drew part two. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Alexinipola from the Real House of Miami. And today, I wanted to check in with someone I've had on the podcast before. She's a psychologist who does extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as well as individuals in all areas of life, before marriage, during the marriage, separated, divorced, and high conflict divorce. Today, it's kind of like I'm getting my own private session. I don't know about that. I am a little bit scared. I'm not going to lie. But once again,

Hi, Dr. Hilary. It's so nice to see you again. Nice to see you again, too. I'm glad we could come back together to chat. Yes. I'm a little scared. I'm a little afraid because I feel like this is like a live session with like a lot of people. And I'm used to like private sessions.

Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully you'll make me feel, you know, at ease and calm and not nervous. And I can open up as much as I need to. Yeah. Well, I mean, ground rules for any session, whether other people are listening or not, is to only go towards places that feel safe and comfortable. And, you know, I always like to think of it as like the just right challenge.

You can, like, go as far as you think it's comfortable, just maybe pushing yourself a little bit in terms of vulnerability and exposure for the purposes of growth. But I got you. I'll make sure that it feels okay and look out for signs if it's not. Okay, thank you for that. Last time we went, we were talking a lot about dating and relationships, and I'd love to get sort of a state of the union in terms of where you are and if that still remains kind of a central theme for you. Well, I feel like relationships have always been a big part of my life. I feel like I've been married my whole adult life.

So, as I said, for me, they've always been important. But this time that I've been on my own has honestly been so good for me. me. I've discovered so much about myself and so much self-awareness and self-love. And, you know, just reflecting on why, you know, my adult life and my adult relationships have been the way that they've been. You know, I want to see only the positive because I am and optimistic. And I continue to believe in love. And I think that that's one of my things that I love too hard. But, you know, I'm also proud of it. You know, I don't want to change. You know, I like the way I am. I'm just like I said, more confident. I know what I want. I know myself worse. You know, sometimes it's,

you know, it's scary to be alone. And I think it's not because you need that male partner. You just don't know any other way of being, which is kind of like, you know, my adult lives that have always been in a relationship and married. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I work with a lot of female clients who talk about this sort of, I don't know, internal and also societal dilemma of like wanting to love love, wanting to be in love, wanting a partnership and this pull around whether or not that's an okay thing or an empowered thing or a sign of weakness. And I love that you're identifying and owning with the desire for connection and partnership. I think that's amazing and lovely. And not only should there not be shame in it,

we should be able to identify and declare that for ourselves. It is part of why we exist. is to be in connection and community with other people. And romantic love is an enormous part of that. And so I think for you, leaning into that is lovely and amazing. It's just trying to, and it's a big thing, a big pursuit, but trying to tease out what parts of that process have not worked for you. You know, what parts of that process has led you to relationships that ultimately aren't resident and to think about continuously how you want to show up differently

or more expansively moving forward. So I'm curious how that process has been and if that process has expanded since you've been alone. Well, I mean, for me, love has always been. So my relationships have never ended because of lack of love. And that's very important, you know, to distinguish

because I feel like a lot of relationships you either go apart or you love each other, but not like in a romantic or passionate way. And, you know, you just don't, you know, you're not in love anymore. But, you know, all my relationships, have been filled with lots of love. And that's why I think I still hold on to that,

you know, to the idea of love. Because I know how important love is and how great it can be if you love the right way and you receive the love back in the same way. So, yeah, that's why I'm still, you know, happy and, you know, and optimistic and I believe that everybody should be. Like my happiness doesn't depend on that person

or on the relationship because I've always been a happy person. You know, I just want that person to compliment, you know, my world and, you know, to compliment me and to make me feel emotionally safe and to be at peace. And, you know, I feel like we love differently in different stages of our lives. And that's the stage that I'm at now. I feel like I have all these tools now with, like, being older

and all the lessons that have gone through and have so much wisdom that, like, I feel like I'm ready now. I wish I would have had all these tools, you know, back in the day. And maybe I would still be married, you know, to the first to father. It is because, you know, I feel like a lot of times, you know, you don't have those tools, especially if you're, you know, you're younger like I was. What are sort of the tools that you've curated that make you feel more solid now? And then part two of my question is where are the arenas, if any, of deficits where you still

feel like you need to shore up to be prepared and ready for connection? Well, I mean, I feel like a lot of the deficit that I had previously. you know, in the past, besides, you know, being younger and, you know, naive, not knowing so much about myself was this time around I really dope into myself and into just finding out why I am the way I am and why my relationships were going, maybe not the way I wanted them to go. So I found out a lot about, you know, they call it now childhood trauma, but, you know, I want to call it like childhood experience, you know, like your parents did the best that they could, and you know my parents loved me tremendously but you know I do now realize that I did have childhood trauma

my parents were divorced that had a lot to do with it I feel like my parents had especially my father was a love that was like conditional like if I was a good girl and I got eight pluses and I you know and I never got in trouble and I was you know like you know doing amazing in school and at home and I, you know, behave and respect, so they would give me everything, you know, either materialistic wise or they would show me love. But at the moment that I got in trouble where I did something that didn't like or didn't align with their values, they would punish me. And they would punish me by withdrawing that love and affection.

So in a way, I thought it was okay because it was my dad and he can do it. But then I feel like I've had that pattern with men in my life as well, that I think it's, you know, it's okay. So I found that a lot at this time because I've had, I've given me. time to myself. I feel like a lot of women when, you know, we go through these, you know, separations if you want to call them, you know, from our

spouses, we never really do work on ourselves. You know, we either start going out with our friends, we start drinking, we start, you know, doing things that really, what we shouldn't really be doing to deal with the pain instead of grieving it, you know, and sitting with yourself, reading the

books, talking to life coaches. And this time, I really did it for myself. And other times I'm, never given myself that time upon from one relationship to the other. And I feel like a lot of women do that because of different reasons, right? Not only because we're scared to be alone or like, you know, I know that a lot of people say that for me, it wasn't that. For me, it was just a way of like trying to find that love again, right?

Like, so it could replace what I had before, you know, with a new person. Yeah, you're alluding to some of the important concepts, but one thing in my world, we call repetition compulsion, right? And when we have a version of childhood trauma, as you alluded to, childhood experiences that were tricky or difficult to absorb and created certain patterns or beliefs about ourselves, we have an internal edict to repeat that pattern, repetition, compulsion, in order to potentially get a different outcome.

So if we had a withholding father or a father that loved with condition or loved in a way that was sort of transnational, I mean, I'm saying I got so much love. I think I got so much love. I grew up in an environment that was very likely. My dad adored us. But that's the way that he showed us, he showed me his love. Yes.

I know that he would have like killed for us. Like my mother and father literally spent other lives fighting for us, Dr. Hillary, because they were both doctors. They were both divorced. They both wanted us to live with them. So it was all they spent other lives fighting for our love. Yes.

And then I had a very nurturing grandmother. Thank God. I'm like, we're Cuban descent. So my grandmother was like the mother and our family. And she gave up her life from my sister and I, my brother. So she gave us all the love. No matter what we did wrong or not, you know,

she would still, you know, give us that love that we needed and wanted. So, you know, it was never like lack of love. I think because our parents didn't have those tools either. So now I like overcompensating. Now with my kids, I'm like, I give them so much love, you know, but in a different way, you know, I show them. Even if they mess up, I still got you. I still love you.

I still give you a kiss. I may be mad I do, but I'm still going to tell you I love you and I'm still going to give you that hug that they need. So I'm going to learn a lot from that. Yeah, you're talking about such an important kind of nuance component in family systems, which is your family, it sounds like, was filled with so much love. You understood you were loved. You understood that your parents did everything for you,

work to support you, and watch you grow and expand. And the other thing that was true at the same time is there were some tricky dynamics that had you thinking about yourself. and about love in certain ways that impacted you moving forward. And so it's interesting that people who come from childhoods where there wasn't trauma, as people often say, with like a capital T. There's nothing like identifiable that happened. So you feel like, well, wait, what's wrong with me?

Why am I not getting relationships right? Nothing really happened to me. And as a result, have a hard time understanding how they move through relationships at times to their own detriment. And so you're bringing up something so important, which is that you can have a family that's like full of love and support and loyalty and trust and all the things, but still have complex, even insidious dynamics that impact how you move through the world and how you see love. And that's sort of what you were describing. And so

perhaps there was a part of you that saw love as being conditional that you had to be perfect or show up in a particular way in order to be valuable and be worthy of a certain kind of love. it's not that your parents weren't loving. It just happened to be a particular dynamic because you said no one comes to parenting with all the tools. We all have things to learn and this was one of your parents perhaps, you know, blind spots or ways that they move through the family dynamic. So it's really lovely that you've taken the time to figure out particularly what's going on for you. So you don't have the compulsion, as I was alluding to before, repeat the pattern. Right, because I feel that's what happens and they've all been different they've all had similarities and they've all had

differences um but i think that that's really like the core of the problem and i just figure that out so i am like at peace i feel so happy i'm not even like i'm actually like i love that finally you know at my age i got to figure this out because some people go on with life and they never figure out what triggers them why are their way they are you know people just like to say oh no because you know you're crazy or you're this or you're that no you're not you know you're you just have to find that time, make the effort. And I really needed to do this for myself. So it's been a blessing and despise.

You know, I just wish, you know, would have been earlier. But, you know, now I'm at a great stage, you know, in my life. I feel at peace. I have clarity. You know, I'm confident. And I'm feeling good. So, yes, I really encourage that for every woman. Honestly, I know it's cliche, but, you know, you really have to do it.

You really have to do it. And it's uncomfortable. you have to sit with yourself and you're going to cry and you're going to read things. But, you know, the more information, you know, you have, you know, the better, the better you'll feel about yourself. Yes. I think often we have a propensity to avoid that work because there are a lot of tricky feelings that can come up, including shame and guilt and fear and anxiety and all the things. And I'd like to talk about the notion of integration paradoxically, the closer we go to, towards those feelings, the more integration that can occur and the more we can feel empowered

around those feelings, meaning they're just a piece of us. They're not all of us. And they're not something to be afraid of or to be avoided. They're to be welcomed in with softness and care, the parts of us that are insecure, the parts of us that are scared, that are traumatized, that are fearful, instead of exiling them off where they recalb it, because we don't have control over them, don't think about them, don't sort of shape them. We bring them closer. We make friends with those feelings and we're able to recognize it as just a small piece of us. And it's actually a really empowering process.

And the way you were just talking and, you know, I can see you right now. I can see you embodying that sort of that feeling state of having done that kind of work. Yeah. And I also feel like I don't know about other patients that you see, but, you know, I feel like me in particular, I've always like to fix people. And I, and you know what, you cannot fix anyone that does not. want to be fixed and that doesn't want to change and change really doesn't happen especially later on in life like at our age and um you have to fix yourself and save yourself and you know

that's that's what you know i've been doing because i feel like i had that my mom was a psychiatrist so you know and so i missed her so much because she was so therapeutic you know she's such a great psychiatrist and by the way she got to worse five times and she gave her great couple therapy and she didn't really she believed in divorce for herself but not for other people you know obviously it's very complex but um and you know my sister and my brother are still married because you know we lived out you know we lived in all where my mom was married five times so that also impacted us and um but you know I miss her a lot and I did learn so much from her and then now I'm actually like putting it to practice because I've had some time for myself and I've matured you know that's the other thing you know you

You have to, like, emotionally mature. You know, some people never do that. So you stay where you're at. We often think we know our type in dating. Tall, funny, a certain job. But the research shows we're usually not the best predictors of who will actually make us the happiest. As we often say on the Happiness Lab,

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Stay open, stay curious, and let yourself be surprised. Download Bumble today. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were they. hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you

get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone. Well, that's true. Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.

You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers. to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer.

We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Month, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how

you got on the show. Boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal felt through. We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk. And they were just like, so what do you got?

What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, TDJ, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey. media mogul philanthropists and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was

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or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. I really like what you're talking about, which is when a couple different concepts, when people show you who they are, particularly in a romantic context, you have to believe them, right? You know, when they show up a particular way

over and over again and show a lack of capacity or willingness to work through hard times, we have to believe them. We can't do the heavy lifting for two people. And I love that you use that word capacity because my mom would always use that word. And my mom would say,

you can't even be mad at the person or hate them. It's just they do not have the capacity. Sometimes you have to move on because they do not have the capacity to love you the way you want them to love you. So, you know, but it's hard. You know, it's hard when you realize that. And, you know, and there's love and you love the person and whatnot. Incredibly painful. It's a very grief-filled process to love someone and recognize they don't have that capacity, that bandwidth to meet you there and to have to let it go in the service

of finding someone that can't. It sounds like that's where you've arrived. And, And I'm curious as you look towards dating now, what are you looking for? What have you identified as the kind of partner you want, the love languages that resonate with you? How do you think of it now? Well, I'm not there yet. I'm not dating anyone, nor am I interested. I'm dating myself. Like, honestly, I feel so good with just being by myself, with my children, you know,

that they're young men, but to me, they're always going to be my kids. and I'm so connected to them so now more than ever I'm closest to both of them I've always been close but like I said I feel like because unfortunately they've seen me in a lot of down times in my life

so they're like you know stepping up for me so thank goodness that you know that I've had them that I have them but you know I just feel good with myself like I feel good I'm at peace you know I'm doing things with my family with my friends

and that's just like where I am know. And when you think about the possibility of a partner in the future, are you just leaving that to unfold as you... I don't know. I mean, it hasn't really worked out for me, but I'm not giving up on love. Like, I, you know, I love, but like, now I know what love has to look like for me. Yeah. You know, I think before, you know, I didn't really know what love was. Yeah. And so what, so maybe that's the question. What does it have to look like for you to consider? Stop for me it just has to be like I have to you know and it's not when you have butterflies in your stomach it's always been for me but you know and I still wanted to be that you know because I love that passion

because I'm very passionate um but you know for me it has to be I have to feel emotionally safe now I know what that means I never really knew what that meant by the way so you know there has to be boundaries you know which I didn't know that word either and I know like you know I don't like social media, but there are some positive things about social media. And I feel like those things have always existed, we just didn't have terms for them. Because all these new terms that we talk about now, like I remember

my mom talking about them, but they were called something else. So, you know, now I know what I deserve and what I want. I think before it was like all over the place because, and not because people think, oh, you know, your life is like a telling a novella and you're like, you've always

has so much chaos and things happen to you. No, no. That's what I've been attracted. You know, that's what I attract. You know, that's what I've attracted in the past. So it's not like, I'm at peace. I'm like, you know, very like, too, I'm good. But then for whatever reasons in my life, I've attracted. I don't know why I'm attracted to that chaos. I don't know if it's because it's fun and adventurous or like, you know, what it is. But again, I really do know what it is now. And it's because I always see the potential and I like the fact of like fixing people. Like, I want to save people and I'm tired of saving people. Like, you know, because at the

Yeah, I have to save myself. And that's what I had to do. And that's what I've always done, right? Save myself. And, yeah, I mean, we're here, you know, as a mom, I can save my children, but I don't think I should have to save any man. It's interesting. I think one emotional fallout of that savior complex is really a self-abandonment, you know.

When we become so focused on helping someone else evolve or save them from their own toxicity, the only way we can do that is to abandon. It's usually yourself, yeah, easy yourself, absolutely. That's right. And you know what, that's not real love if you really think about it, because if you have to give up like who you are and your self-worth and, you know, to save someone else and that person, you know, can't see it, and that person doesn't deserve you and you should not want to be with that person.

Right, and by definition, it lacks reciprocity, right? I mean, if you're, if one is interested in emotional connection and depth and connection it can only happen if it's reciprocal. And so if one is in the save your role and the other is in the role of sort of intermittently receiving it, of course, that isn't the fertile ground to build that. So I'm really glad we're talking about that because you have to get pretty conscious about recognizing if you're in that role of, quote, saving someone or focusing on someone's potential versus what they're showing you because the outcome inevitably is self-abandonment. that is true yeah i mean we also have to be careful with a lot of things you know i feel like nowadays

too um you know you you know women and men too i mean we're also empowered you know with all this information you know i feel like we give up sometimes um before we should give up you know that's not who i am obviously you know people that know me know that i'm like i give it my all you know i fight to the end, but you have to know, how much you're going to fight, you know, and like you said, you can't abandon yourself, you know, to make, you know, somebody else happy that doesn't really want to be connected and want to do the work on their part. Yeah. Yeah, there's couples that work and have longevity and sustainable, intermittent, but sustainable passion really build an intentional deliberate skill set around conflict resolution, right, around like, how do you

do we deal with hard things? How do we talk about it? How do we support each other when we have individual or mutual times of stress? You know, how do we show up? What is the language we use? How do we recover from a fracture between us? You really have to get so deliberate and intentional because when we're triggered, all of us, we don't show up as our best selves. So understanding how we show up when we're triggered, understanding how our partner shows up when they're triggered, and building skills to support ourselves and each other is critical. And to your point of folks giving up too early, I think oftentimes it's related to this topic

that if you haven't curated a way of approaching conflict resolution, it's really hard to stay together. It can feel quite healthy. I feel like that's a problem, like since the kids are little, you know, that you have to show your kids, you have to give them those skills, you know, and I'm guilty as a parent, and I'm sure there's so many other listeners that are listening to that,

that we just resolve everything for them, you know, so they don't know how to resolve conflict. And I feel that we also carry it on to our relationships because if you don't know how to, you know, solve certain things when you're a young person, then as you get older, you carry it on to everything. You're personal, you're professional. And I think that that's what happens, you know,

with the couples like you're saying, like there's no repair after the conflict. Yeah. So whatever reason, if you had the mom that would stay quiet at home and the dad would do whatever, you learn that from your mom. So you're like, okay, well, maybe I should just stay quiet and not say what I need to say just to avoid the conflict. So it's so complicated.

It's really complicated. You just have to both want the same thing and put in time and the effort. And, you know, I'm able to communicate and talk about uncomfortable things. Well, you sort of started saying it right now, but I'm curious, what have you learned about your own approach moving forward around conflict resolution? What has, like, tripped you up in the past and what do you want to bring to a new release? Right. Well, I mean, I feel like I need to be maybe a better listener, you know, and not be like so reactive at the moment, you know, because sometimes they don't realize that you're reacting to whatever behavior they're showing you. But, you know, I feel like it's important to know your spouse or your partner, whoever you're in your relationship with. You need to know, you need to know them. You know, I feel like sometimes we don't know that person enough. So, you know, you know, you know, you know, you don't know how to, like, navigate. But I feel it's important that both people do know each other and respect each other.

And, like, I've learned so much even about that, about attachment styles, avoidant, anxious. I'm the anxious one. So I'm trying not to be so anxious. But, you know, so I've just, like, done a lot of reading, a lot of, like, you know, coaching and therapy that has really, you know, helped me just be better, you know, not to be with another man, not to be with anybody else, but just with myself. You know, I feel like I'm, I've learned a lot. and I'm very satisfied and grateful that I finally got to a good, you know, to a good space,

you know, that I feel good about myself. Yeah. You're talking about such a critical piece, which is when you're in a partnership, understanding the other person's style during conflict, and that encompasses a lot of things. So what happens for them when they are in the realm of conflict, do they shut down? Do they get more activated and aggressive? Do they feel vulnerable and fearful of being abandoned? You know, what happens for that person when they feel threatened through conflict, right?

And what happens to you in the same scenario? And things may be, quote, complementary or they may work against each other. And having conversations with your partner outside of the tricky moment. We don't try to figure this out while we're fighting. Exactly. Right. We figure it out, you know, over a glass of wine or during a walk on the beach or something of like, let's really think about what happens for both of us when we fight. You know, one person says they might withdraw. The other person says they might get heightened and activated and a little more aggressive. Like recognizing that and saying that vulnerability to the other person is a really good first start.

And then asking each other, well, what do you need in that moment? You know, one person might need a hand on the knee. One person might need a 10 minute pause. One person might need words of affirmation. One person might need like a code word that means we still love each other, right? That coming up with a process to address each other's sort of pain points in those moments is really, really important. And then figuring out, you alluded to this earlier, around how do you self-advocate? How do you say the thing? How do you say, this is what I need?

This is what I want. And I'm not abandoning my need in this moment, but do it at a moment. but do it in a digestible way. And I often talk about the difference between aggression versus advocacy, so critical, right? We never have to say, I'm not saying what I need. I'm not saying what I feel, but we should take responsibility for how we say it. So message is, you know, always on point in terms of what our needs are, but the delivery system has to be curated. Yeah, I'm working on my delivery.

You know, I'm going to show that we all have very poor delivery. Yes. So I'm definitely working on that. That's very important. And, you know, I feel also it's important to have that partner that's going to listen to you and validate that. Because I feel like a lot of women are afraid, you know, to actually talk about their emotions. You know, I was one of them in different relationships. I've always suffered from that too.

You know, I grew up kind of like, even though my mom was a psychiatrist and people would go to her to save their needs and their problems and all that, but it was kind of like, you know, we couldn't really talk about our feelings and our emotions. So I feel like, you know, the older. women are hopefully the younger generation they're very you know out there and they're very like vocal about you know their feelings and emotions but you know I feel like as you know older women do may be in situations like that where they're even like afraid you know to say anything because it's either going to create you know conflict or they're not going to be you know their feelings aren't going to be validated or they're just going to say oh like you're overreacting or whatever

or you put up with it for such a long time right some people put up with it for super long time and then when they react it's like you know it's a little bit. too late. Yeah. So it's super important from the beginning, right? To just be who you are, say what you need to say. Like you say, the delivery is important. And just, you know, you have to get it off your chest.

Yes. I really like to put that under the category of self-advocacy and hope people start, if it resonates, starts conceptualizing it is that. It really is. It's sharing our feelings, but it's really under the more holistic umbrella of advocating for ourselves and how we want to be seen and treated and how we want to move through the world. And we want to have a partner that is able to listen to and care about and respond to our feelings. And our responsibility is to deliver it in a way that is, as I said, digestible,

but their responsibility is to find a way to meet you there and listen. And that doesn't mean you always get what you want, but it should mean that more often than not at least you're getting acknowledged and validated and really creating that positive feedback loop is like a practice. We should do the same thing for them. This is a two-way street. You know, it's not like we want all this from them and, you know, we don't give anything in return. No, we have to reciprocate. We have to do the same thing for them. That's right. We often think we know our type in dating, tall, funny, a certain job, but the research shows were usually not the best predictors

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dark, and mysterious. Maybe it's loves podcast as much as you do. Stay open, stay curious, and let yourself be surprised. Download Bumble today. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.

I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health. And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone. Well, that's true.

Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer.

to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judge, oh, horribly. The were like, you're trash, I don't know how you got on the show, boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding.

But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed.

But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk. And they were just like, so what do you got? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist, and global trailblazer.

My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you. Listen to the next chapter on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. You know, as we're talking about delivery, the delivery system by which we share our needs, I just wanted to offer this. I think it's a really important relationship hack, which is that obviously none of us are going to deliver our messaging and our needs in a perfect way. every time. Nobody does that. So what do we do when we've shown up in a way we don't feel good

about? And I just always like to offer the idea that like we can always go back. We can always go back, whether it's five minutes later, an hour later, or like 10 days later and sort of say like, you know, we were talking about that thing. And like my message was on point, but like the way I said it to you, I don't feel good about. You know, I just wanted to come to you and say, I'm really sorry, raise my voice or had that tone or said this phrase that doesn't feel good to you, right? The thing I was talking about is still really important to me, but I'm going to table that for now because I want you to know I didn't feel good about how I said it. And that can create a lot of goodwill between a couple. And goodwill is such a critical, like, fuel for a couple

to sustain is to show up and raise your hand and said, hey, that was on me and have that humility and that vulnerability to do that. And this allows us to not subscribe to the idea that somehow we always have to get it right. And so maybe that gives us a little more confidence to try. I love that. Yeah. That's great advice. Yeah.

I know it now. I had to learn it the hard way, but that's really, really good advice. Yeah. I'm curious if, I mean, obviously some of your relationships were in the public eye or at least somewhat shown on television. I feel like all of them. All of them have been on the public eye. And on TV, so yeah.

Yeah. How did that add to the complication of your relationships? You know, it's been, they were all different. But I feel like, you know, once you're, you know, once the public has, you know, access to your, to your life or to comments, you know, and you have that public scrutiny that, you know, it's, it just becomes so much more worse. If you're that type of person, you know, I try to not read comments. so I have very thick skin and I know who I am

and I actually love who I am and I know my family, I know my morals and values but you know I'm gonna show where you know you don't get to see my whole life story and we're filming for three months so it's whatever's happening at the moment and there's a lot of holes you know it's not a complete story so people just judge you or your relationship

or your marriage you know based on what they see which really isn't fair but you know and it's really hard you know having to share you know unfortunately I had to something very difficult for me because, you know, I love this person. So when you're in love with the person and it's not, it was just really difficult. It's just really difficult. I try for it not to affect me because, like I said, I know the type of relationship, you know,

that I'm in and that I have, and, you know, the people, the men that I've loved. So it's like, I don't get offended by any of that. Yeah. But definitely it's hard because once you're a public person, like everybody has an opinion about it. Like, everybody talks about J-Lo and event, I'm like, and you read the comments and it's so, like, heartbreak him like you don't even know these people like you don't even know how can you say something you know so horrific you know unfortunately there's a lot of people in the world with a lot of hate that don't know what love is they've never been in a relationship they've never had that love

because no matter what i was telling all my friends that they get divorced i'm like and they want to talk bad i'm like you know think about the good you know what i mean there was also good you know that's why you love this man so there was also a lot of good there was also a lot of love and you know that's what I like to focus on, you know, on the love of it. But it's definitely hard when you are in the public eyeing. Yeah. It seems like you really come to some version of a reconciliation with it and are able to not imbibe all of the public feedback.

Oh, yeah. Of course, absolutely. You know, and there's going to be people that, you know, that like it, you know, that are going to like on your favorite people that are. And you're going to have an opinion, you know, you know how that is. but honestly I really don't let it affect me I really do care about what my family and my close friends

that have been with me and know more my life then they're entitled to say something but the public that doesn't really know me that just sees like a clip for two minutes on TV I don't care about what they have to say you know it's my life and I'm going to live it the way I want to live it and I'm a good kind person and I'm a loving person and you know

and that's you know I feel you know I feel good about, you know, myself and whatever choices, you know, I've been. Such a good example of boundaries. I mean, obviously your situation is more on a macro scale, but on a micro scale for anybody listening, it can be triggering, activating. We can feel super heightened when we hear people have feedback about us that doesn't feel good, you know, that isn't well-intentioned and being able to create an internal boundary. If someone that we love and care about and trust has feedback that they want to offer in a kind, respectful way that is very different than someone doing it in an indirect, implicit way or in a direct, aggressive way and being able to recognize that when feedback comes through that delivery system, it's not something that we're responsible to take in in that manner and really being able to trust what we know about ourselves and our intuition about ourselves.

I'm so grateful that I am the way that I am. because it's true, it could really affect a lot of people. You know, the mental health, because, you know, if you're reading these things, like, every day, you like, becomes the moment that you start believing them, you know. But thank goodness for me that I'm not affected by, you know, by those things. But, you know, I mean, in general, going through anything, you know, in the public eye when you're a public person,

just makes it even more, you know, painful or more difficult. One thing that I do regularly is work with couples that are going through divorces, amicable divorces all the way to super high conflict divorces and co-parenting and kiddos obviously can be an enormously painful big issue through the divorce process. How has parenting and your relationship with your kids evolved through divorces? I've been very fortunate. So the father of my kids is, you know, an amazing father. And they always had a great relationship with him. So when I married my second husband, Herman, he was like their father. Like my kids would say, I have two fathers.

He was such an incredible stepfather and they were friendly too. So my kids would say, you know, we're so lucky. You know, we have two dads. You know, so I felt like that had the best of both worlds because like what Herman could give them, you know, the dad can give them. And when the dad could give them, Herman can give them. So they literally had to like amazing, you know, father figures, you know, in different ways.

And, you know, and then when I met Todd, my kids were already older. So it wasn't like it's different. I feel like it's different when they're younger than when they're older. And, you know, it just comes to like being like their friend. You know what I mean? It's just being a friend.

So it's my, I've been very lucky when it comes with the kids and, you know, and the fathers or the stepfathers, if you want to call them, you know, being, you know, involved with my kids. It's our thing about, just like about love and friendship and just, you know, going out. Like, nobody's like tried to out to the other. You know what I mean?

Like, I just want to be your friends. I'm not here to, you know, to substitute or take away from your dad. You know, we're just all want to get along and we all want to be friends. And that's what it's like. That's what it's been. So thank God that I've had that. So that's made it so much easy because that's very difficult, I can imagine, for a mom. It's a really good template, and you're right. By definition, it has the potential of being very difficult and confrontative for all the parties involved, especially the kids. And so I think when the new person, the new partner, new step-parent, et cetera, comes into the picture, taking on the sort of role that you were describing as, you know, a friend, a positive presence. You know, like any community member might be in a family unit, I think is a really good place to start. And if it evolves from me, you know, a friend, a positive presence, you know, like any community member might be in a family unit, I think it's a really good place to start. And if it evolves from

there, that's amazing and beautiful and fortunate. And if it just remains, and I put just in quotes, because it's amazing. But as a trusted, safe other, that's part of your community, that's an enormous win given the scenario. Yeah, I mean, that's very complex, too, that we can talk about all day. It really is so, like, situational. Like, it depends on, you know, everybody has a different circumstance, a different situation, you know, backstory, past history.

I mean, it's very, you know, but luckily for me, for me, it was, it's been very, very good, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm aware that your son was in an accident a number of years back. How is he daring at this point? Oh, no, he's 28 years old. He's doing amazing. He has a brain injury. But, so he suffers from aphasia.

He has a communication disorder. Yes. So something like that, families that have gone and something like that, it changes the whole dynamics. of your family and of your relationship. So I was married to Herman at the time, and he couldn't have been better than what he was. He was an incredible man. And it brought us together as a family more,

but it also created distance in my relationship with him because Frankie became my priority. I was in a hospital for almost a year. I came back home, and we had our room upstairs, and Frankie had his room downstairs, and I wanted to see with Frankie. I've never left Frankie's sight. So it's like I didn't realize what I was doing, right?

Like as a woman because I needed to save my son. And he was so good that he was okay with it. You know, he's like, no, you know, it's okay. I understand. But, you know, it's hard. You know, it's hard being in a situation like that. And unfortunately, families that have gone through something like that, if they're listening, they can relate to this.

Yes. Because, you know, you do become closer in so many ways because we did. And by the way, with the father, too. It's like, you know, we had the father or the stepfather, and we became so close, but, you know, as a couple, we became distant because, you know, my head was not there. My, you know, I just couldn't function. And I was afraid that I slept upstairs and, you know, Frankie in the room downstairs, anything would happen. I wouldn't hear them. So it just, you know, it affected our relationship as a couple eventually.

Really appreciate you talking about this. It is true. You kind of alluded to this that when a. a family system goes through a trauma like that, it can often result in a divorce because the family system is, as you knew, but it's sort of obliterated to accommodate the trauma. I mean, and as a mother of a young son, you had no other choice. Of course, you were going to be by his side. And, you know, I often call it like the land of bad choices. You're either not with your son every moment or you're not tending to your primary romantic relationship as you want to or should.

And you have to prioritize your son who's ailing at that time. But I'm glad we're having this dialogue because, like, you were mentioning, of course, you're in trauma, you're in crisis, you're not reflecting on the impact. My whole family was affected. I wasn't even focusing on my son Peter that also was crying out for help. It's like your whole family falls apart. That's right. And look, when trauma happens, it's going to have an.

impact and there's nothing we can do to pre-pre-prepure for it. But I like that we're talking about it because when someone is going through a chronic trauma, like I imagine you were, because the recovery, I'm sure, was extensive, you know, being able to include in your paradigm eventually when your system returns somewhat from fight or flight around like what's happening to our overall family system and how can I tend to it. And it wasn't even his biological son, even though he for him it was like his son like Frankie was his son but you know so he was so good that it wasn't even like his biological son and he was there just like the die and you know and that's not what we got divorced you know but like I said when it was time to focus on my marriage it was

kind of like too late yeah because you know I had saved Frankie you know I had saved my other son Peter I was saying trying to save myself I had to save him and I was like okay like what about me You know what I mean? It was like it was too too much. Yeah. And I've never gone to therapy. I've like fixed myself like all my, you know, like the kind of therapy. I actually just went to therapy once after my father passed away.

That was really the first trauma in my life and it was really difficult. I was 23 years old and I, yeah, that to me was very, very bad. That was my first trauma. And that was really the only time that my mom's like, I can't even help you. Like I need to send you to psychiatrists and I wouldn't. Back in the day, they weren't that many therapists. It was more psychiatrists. You know, they would medicate you, which, you know, my mom didn't want.

So we never really did that, but it was, it was tough. I'm struck and impressed by your ability to self-reflect and your level of insight. Not that therapy is the only way to get there. It's not, but you've really done some extensive, intentional, deliberate work. It's obvious from the way that you're talking about it. Well, thank you. Well, I would have made you. you, then maybe I would have gone to you because I like it because you talked back to me.

I feel like I've gone. I have tried it, but I felt like I go talk to Hillary and then I'm like pouring like my heart out and just talking and saying then it's you kind of like going back to that pain, right, that you lived and I don't want to revisit that pain again. I was there. I suffered it. I cried about it. So I feel like I'm on the other side and then, you know, we, they want to know like since

you started your childhood. what do you know and to me I don't see like progress and then I haven't had somebody like you that you know that communicates also like you're giving me you know it's a conversation you know it's like you're just like writing want to know everything about me and then I'm like okay well do you have anything to say like what's wrong with me like how can you help me yeah yeah you know I'm actually really glad you're saying that because I think one thing that uh you you need speaking about advocacy you really need to be an advocate for yourself if you're in in therapy and you're pursuing a therapeutic connection that interviewing therapists is okay and recommend it. You know, you really want to find someone that resonates with your particular style and that feels right. As you just alluded to, obviously, the goal is to go into things that are hard and painful. And there's no, quote, right way for a therapist to operate, I mean, except obvious limits, but finding someone that works the way that makes you feel the most comfortable is really important and interviewing one, two, three, four therapists is not only okay

but recommend it until you find someone that resonates, so I'm actually glad you brought that up. I'm happy to know that. I'm so glad that we got to talk today again. Yes. I hope we get to do another check-in sometime soon. I feel like we need to. Now I'm more, thank you for making me feel comfortable and it was really nice talking to you.

It was really nice talking to you too. Okay, Dr. Hillary, this has been incredible for me, just to have a conversation and to get more clarity on what is important in life, what's important in my life, what's important in all your listeners that are listening, what's important in your life. Are you wanting to get clear on what you want and deserve in your next relationship? We can help with that. Call us or email us.

All the information is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I Do Part 2, an IHeart podcast where falling in love is the main objective. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

I'm Josh Zeman. And this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA,

and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast.

Recently, I had the honor of sitting down with the iconic Chris Jenner. Even if one of your children has been through something really difficult with their partner or an ex-partner, you still love them as part of the unit and the family. These are the fathers of my grandchildren. And that love doesn't go away when we experience really challenging times with them. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of next chapter, I, TD Jake, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award winning actor and cultural icon.

for a conversation about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted. I mean, I don't take any credit for it. It's nothing I did as special, you know, did knock down a few pegs and recognize it, but I just didn't put me first. I just put God first, and he's carried me. Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining,

or just trying to hold it together, This one will speak to you. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. Don't miss one of them. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy?

at 3 a.m. And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.