The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Roses By Gaslight

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

We’re almost at the end of Katie’s season and we haven’t seen any teasers, promos, or ANYTHING about a ceremony! Ben and Ashley share their wildest theories about how the season will end. Okay there is some major gaslighting going on from Greg, so we bring in psychologist Dr Hillary Goldsherr (@drhillaryla) to help explain why he does the things he does. And Ashley hits a huge milestone in her pregnancy that could change EVERYTHING. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast and the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA.

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cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcombered podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, it's Honey German, and I'm back with season two of my podcast.

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Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio We have gotten to talk to you so many times In the last couple weeks It's been actually incredible. We've had a week where we did two episodes with a special episode. Then this last weekend, we were able to celebrate with many of you on our virtual engagement party for Jessica Clark and myself, but mostly Jessica, because she's awesome. And now we're back. Breaking down another episode of Katie Thurston's season of The Bachelor.

Yes, it's hometowns. And we have the one and only, Ashley I Kennedy, here to help us break it down. The one and only. That is me. Well, Ben, what did you do this weekend besides not going to Napa for your engagement party? I came back to Rhode Island after a good stint at my parents who babied me and took care of me and were my nursing team. I'm starting to feel a little bit better. But knock on wood, because guess what?

Last time I said that, I threw up seven times in one day. So knocking on lots of wood, I obviously don't do a lot of things. days. Today is maybe a big day though because Jared and I are going to find out the gender of our child. Whoa. I think sex is more appropriate word there, but we're finding out the sex of our child today. And yeah, so we're just going to... Are you nervous? I think we're going to go to the beach and like sit on a rock after a softball game and open an email from my doctor's office. Are you nervous? Are you excited? Like, what are the emotions around this? Oh my God. I'm so nervous. I'm honestly like so nervous. I got the text a couple days ago that we could find out.

But Jared and I wanted to be like together and like have a moment. And I honestly was cool with postponing it a couple days just because I'm so nervous. Just because I am like, I feel bad. If it's a boy, he's going to be like, mom, you literally told the whole media that you wanted a girl. And then I'll be like, you know, but but then I had you and it didn't matter because everybody says that like legitimately once the babies in your arms, you don't care about anything like that. But you know, like I'm just like always been such a girly girl and I've always just dreamed of having a daughter. So we'll see. I mean, obviously I'll be happy either way. And we got a whole bunch of test back and everything looks really good and healthy.

normal and that is truly the most important thing. So I'm going to be happy either way. By the time the boy is old enough to call you out on this, it ain't going to matter anymore. No, right? Exactly. It ain't going to matter. Well, this is a big day. Okay. I've always wondered, because finding out the sex of your child is feels like such an important thing. It feels like such a big thing. I mean, it is a big thing. Yeah, but people do it in so many different ways. And I'm like, I think I would be sick to my stomach not not for any reason like hey honestly I'm scared to death I'm going to have eight like little daughters and that makes me like it keeps me up a night it sounds like a nightmare because is that because you feel like you wouldn't be able to relate to daughters or because you'd be so worried about I'll be so worried yeah I'd be so worried I'd be just I know it and I know it's how my life is going to look and I'm going to have stomach cramps and definitely a girl dad. indigestion forever. That's going to be brutal.

But anyways, hey, huge weekend for you. So you asked what Jessica and I did. We were supposed to go to Napa. Jessica was so excited for it. She had picked out new outfits. She had told her friends and family.

They had sent her gifts for Napa. Like, she wants to go to Napa so bad. We're going to take her to Napa. Like, I don't feel that bad because, like, I'm going to take her to Napa and we're going to have a great time. You just like go next weekend. Just like pick up and do it.

Well, that's a little difficult. When I'm not in Denver, for the next two months. Wait, what? Traveling. It's tough. It's tough life right now.

Well, you're going to be in Denver, but you mean for not an extended period of time? Yeah, not for a weekend. But anyways, we'll go to Napa. And this weekend, when we found out that Napa was canceled, supposedly, we said, okay, what are we going to do with this weekend? And we said, we're going to go and we're going to have a great time together. And so Friday night after our virtual shower, we went on a really nice date. And we shared a bottle of wine.

And we talked about life. and we celebrate each other because we don't get to be together alone extremely often. And then Saturday met up for a run and re-ran about six miles together up a mountain. So we did 700 feet of elevation without stopping. It was our goal. Six miles. Oh, wait. You had six miles uphill without stopping.

Yes, we did, Ash. It was crazy. that is so beyond my comprehension must be beyond mine too but my goodness and then we went with our friends on a hike uh it's called maxwell falls a really popular hike right outside of denver and then we went to uchi a sushi restaurant uh for dinner that night had an incredible time and then yesterday uh she had a wedding shower for one of her closest friends i played golf and so it actually ended up being It sounds like a vacationy weekend At home

It was awesome So that was a big deal And then we tuned into Our the little pre-clip Or pre-episode that we get of The Bachelorette Watch that together Jessica's all confused Because she hasn't seen an episode all season

I'm trying to catch her up It's way too late in the game to do that But we got to do that together Life's good, Ashley I'm very happy And it was a weekend I needed Just to be with my girl Hanging out and celebrating

Oh, that's so, so sweet. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you guys had that. I'm still, like, flabbergasted at the fact that you're not going to have a weekend in Denver for two months and that you went uphill for six miles. Like, you don't understand. Like, I can't run. Like, before I was pregnant, I was in really good shape. I was doing those open fit classes, like four to five times a week.

I was feeling really good. But I have never been a runner. Like, I, I used to. of my high school was crazy. I don't know if I ever told you this. But okay, so my high school, totally overachieving public school in Northern Virginia Langley High School. Shout out. Love you. You did great for me. However, you had to run two and a half miles in 20 minutes in order to get an A, two miles and a quarter to get a B. And if you did just a 10 minute mile, you got a C. Like, that's how crazy it was. So I was always happy to get a B.

in running it wasn't like that consisted of your entire grade but that was like a portion and like 20 25% of your grade how crazy is that that's super fast like that's an athlete status to get an a two and a half miles in 20 minutes what is that like average pace like 9 I think it's like 7 30 oh that's pretty fast yeah yeah pretty fast okay fine maybe it's not 730 because that would be 14 okay but I'm also bad at Anyway, running has just been something that I've just always avoided and the fact that you did six miles uphill. I mean, sorry, I'm going on and on about this. It's just really, it's really something. Good for you guys. Well, Ashley, I'm here to shock and surprise your world. And hey, it wasn't good. That was the whole point is we had a great weekend together and it was something special.

Well, Ashley, we're going to take a break here. We have a big episode to break down. Obviously, it's hometown week. and we get to meet Blake's family. Justin's family, as we now know. Justin's best friends. Doesn't show up, but his best friends do come. And then we obviously have probably the shockingly most talked about hometown

or at least character of this episode will be Greg. We're going to bring in some support to talk about Greg to break down everything that we're feeling, thinking, everything that we felt watching those scenes between Katie and Greg. There's a lot there, but we're going to take a break first, and we're going to come back with the breakdown of this week's Bachelorette. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon.

This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor and they're the same age. It's even more likely that they're cheating.

He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him? Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeartRadio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips.

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app.

Search Emergency. Come and listen now. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately from Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training.

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Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcomfort podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth.

Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast as part of the My Cultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A foot washed up.

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hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ben and I talk a little bit before we started the show, right? And I was like, Ben, I felt nothing the first 40 minutes of this episode. I said out loud to Jared and go, something dramatic better happen in the second half of this episode. Or I am going to have nothing to say. These hometowns left me feeling very little. There was nothing monumental or point of conversation.

first we start out with blakes i liked blake's mom um that was the one that was my one takeaway uh ben you said that you had plenty to say so let's start out with blakes how are you feeling well i think i want to start this with asking a question right back to you Ashley why did you feel nothing like because there's obviously something about this that you were hoping for or expecting and because it didn't reach your hopes and dreams you felt nothing why is it that you felt nothing There was just nothing like there was just nothing revealing like we didn't learn anything extra about these guys seeing them around their families and I don't even think it has to do with like going to the actual hometown because we've already had two seasons where they like mimic the hometown and I felt way more from those families and I felt like more connected to the contestants through watching them with their families and maybe I got that a little bit with Greg when they were talking about his dad and the fact that he had had not been this happy in so long and you know showing the picture of the dad and like the nieces and nephews on the TV like I felt

like okay wow this guy like has an amazing family support system around him he really is as close to his family as he's said that he is um with Justin I think it was weird that he didn't clarify to Katie why his parents didn't go because from what we saw It seemed as if Justin's parents just weren't really condoning him being part of this process. And it seemed like they weren't in support of him getting engaged after such a little amount of time. They didn't really want to progress that. And then with Blake's family, it was fine. It was nice.

It was okay. But like I also didn't feel like I got, I didn't like, it wasn't like an added layer was put on top of Blake because of his family. well and i think that points to something it points to my to what i was feeling was you know blake i think does feel something for katy i think this has been shockingly um more uh real than he expected it to be even showing up late like i think he's really into this and now we're watching this kind of unfold at hometowns where things get serious you're bringing your family into this and your and his family was almost pushing him to take a step. Like they were saying, do you really want to see this girl go? So I wonder, you know, how much they knew about Blake's crush on Katie or feelings for Katie

before he even left. I think they're excited about it. I was, I was surprised based on being around this a few times, how much Blake's family pushed him to say, say how you're feeling or this is going to be done. And almost saying Blake, like, we don't want to see, this not work out for you like i was the sense i was getting okay i can get that i also feel like with blake he is very matter of fact right like he's not doesn't come across is it a very emotional guy we've talked about how like i don't sense like romanticism from him so it's like everything he says seems like it's coming from like a state of fact instead of like a state of emotion and i i feel like that's probably why he even didn't say

anything at the end even though he was preparing himself to say something i feel like he can't like get lost in the moment a lot i'm totally overanalyzing to do it as well but okay so then we flash forward and this is all coming off to anybody out there listening this is all coming off ashley's statement way before we started this saying hey this is going to be a tough podcast because i honestly felt very little at the beginning of this podcast and so the hope of this conversation is to pull out and anything good that we can take away from because obviously with the end of the podcast, we're hoping something good comes from these first hometown dates.

Well, Justin's parents don't show up. And I, what I think it does is it takes away from the show. I don't necessarily disagree with their decision. I do wish they would have been there in support of Justin and told him this to his face. Like maybe, hey, we're going to show up. We're going to look at our son in the eyes

and say, we're not going to want to meet Katie. Or if we meet Katie, we're going to make it very clear to both of you that we aren't in support of you, getting engaged. I thought sitting in from a distance over the phone knowing that their son is going through one of the most traumatic experiences of his life, especially if he's there towards the end and saying, sorry, man, we're just not going to be there. Like, I felt like that was hard to swallow. I didn't love that decision, quite honestly. Yeah, that was sad. We really

haven't seen that. We've seen that before with siblings, but not with parents. It's just a parent I believe like it's just nice to see them face to face like you miss them after a while and and so it'd been nice if they would have told them that in person and who knows why that didn't happen but I also feel like it takes away from the show a bit because as a result Justin's hometown is not really me

I'm with you like it didn't have a lot emotional layer to it his friends were kind of being friends and they were talking to Katie they were I feel like they were almost censoring themselves and just trying to be there because they knew Justin needed somebody around him during this really traumatic time. But it fell short for me. I didn't learn a lot about Justin during this whole date.

It just felt like it didn't need. I'm just not feeling like this is a couple that's going to last to the end. I don't think there's a shot because the chemistry has not been seen yet, especially on this date. Yeah, totally. And another thing worth mentioning is that Katie tells all three, I believe, families that she's not saying, I love you to anyone because she doesn't think it would be right if she did that while other guys were still in the mix. And I actually really like that. I totally respect that.

I think that's a cool decision. And I think it's a decision that the guys would prefer, right? and then and then we get into the Greg Sitch and but before we get there is there anything else

that you think is worth mentioning no I think you're right Ashley in the sense of hey these first two home downs felt like there needed to be more that happened I do think

that the Blake situation feels still even as I watch Blake and his family with together I do feel like there's something very, like, deep in that relationship. But I will say this when it comes to Justin's time on the show, I think, you know, I think that was the moment where I realized, yeah, this isn't going to work.

Anyways, we can fast forward to Greg, and you can take it away because I know you have a lot of strong feelings about this. And we are going to bring in somebody that we know well to help us with this. Ashley, who are we talking with today. We are bringing in Dr. Hillary Golcher, who has been on our podcast a lot to talk about emotional and sensitive subjects that come up on The Bachelor. We got her on today last minute because I was watching the episode and I was like, this is gaslighting to the extreme, right?

Am I misinterpreting something? Did I not watch carefully enough? Am I missing it? Because I think this guy is totally making up these issues out of thin air. And he's making a huge deal. And he's making some of these issues. or something that you just can't come back from. I just think he was twisting everything back on to Katie.

And my theory is that he just didn't want to be there anymore. And like he didn't have strong enough feelings. And this was his way of making him not seem like the bad guy, but her seeming like the person that just couldn't commit enough. So Ashley, for anybody out there like myself who always needs clarity, what is gaslighting? All right, I'm going to pull up like a real definition of gaslighting. So it says gaslighting is a word for a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is successful in having to target question their own reality, their own memory, or perceptions.

So basically, Greg in the situation would make Katie feel like she did something that really messed with their relationship when I don't think she did. so let's get to the crux of the situation two weeks ago or whatever gregg said i'm falling in love with you with katie she didn't say that back i don't know if he was at all referring to that moment but like the big moment that he refers to in this argument is when after he meets she meets the family she she sits down with gregg he says you filled a hole in my heart that has been empty, you know, basically since my father passed away. And I've truly never been, I don't remember the last time I was this happy. And he's very emotional. He's crying. And then he claims that she did not give enough emotion or comfort in that moment back to him. And then all of a sudden,

he starts to think that she is not reciprocating the feelings like she used to with him. So he's immediately thinking her feelings must be stronger for somebody else and at that night so like they're at the hometown when you know before she gets into the car and all that i'm thinking okay he's freaking out it's like i understand he really just wants her to say i'm falling in love with you too and you make me as happy and you fill holes in my heart and all that stuff i understand understand I understood him more in that moment where like he just wanted to hear something that was like more confirming that it was going to be him in the end I was kind of like a Sean booth moment can you kind of describe what I mean by that because I feel like Sean kind of like was always freaking out and then he and he was like always just wanting confirmation that it was him well I think you see it a few times in the show too is you start to lose control a little bit. You think every, you know, you probably in your head start getting overly confident.

You start thinking that you're the one that's going to be chosen. You get really excited about that maybe. Hopefully you're getting excited about that. And then the show does a really good job every time at kind of seeing through that and bringing that confidence down and making you question where exactly you stand with the lead. Yeah, I was like, dude, don't you see that you're on a show right now? She can't say it back to you. And it was frustrating to me that it seemed like he wasn't getting that.

And then if we can translate it to real life, like take the show away, right? It happens like these scenarios, right? Now, some people handled them better than others. I'm not saying that like what Greg did was right or anything like that. But what I'm saying is, you know, you start to date somebody or you start to get overly confident in a relationship and maybe a breakup happens and maybe something happens in your life that you feel like you're losing control. And some people go with because of their insecurity probably and because of the lack of grasp that they have on a situation, they start to say things and do things to make to justify their actions or their reason for being hurt. and as a result that's a slippery slope and it can end really poorly

and I think that's what we're seeing here there's some justification being done because Greg's like oh I've got this in the bag this is all done Katie and are going to be together she's going to be loving on me she's going to be so happy that she hears me say that she's the one for me and when she doesn't he goes

uh oh okay well this is why I'm hurt Katie this is what you should have done this is where it went wrong and it just gets messy and it gets ugly and it gets really hard for the party having to hear it. So, yeah, at first was like, okay, he's freaking out, he wants confirmation. And then he goes to her room

and everything is crazy. He legit says, because you didn't confirm your feelings and you were like not as emotional as I wanted you to be in that moment, it's done. like I can never see you the same way again and his tone

I don't know he's still like accusatory it was the weirdest thing and this is what I want to get in with Dr. Coles culture so we'll get her on the line hello thank you so much for being here so did you get a chance to watch the last 30 minutes of the episode which I just found quite mind-boggling

I was I felt like I was being gaslit I was like wait a second Okay, I think she's being gaslight right now, but what if, what is, am I, what's going, am I misinterpreting? Like, I kept, I was like blaming myself for a minute. What happened? I was sort of like, we need to take a step back and think about what is gaslighting so we can, we can make a conclusion as to whether or not we think that's happening. Like, gaslighting is the sort of notion of people using kind of psychological warfare manipulation to make someone kind of question their own experience or their own sort of sanity. And do you think that was a version of what was happening?

I think so. Yes. I mean, I feel like he took like in a little issue and he totally blew it up to the point where like there was no return. Where I think in a sane relationship, it would have been like, okay, let's say that you didn't respond the way I expected you to and kind of move on forward. Well, I mean, it's sort of like, as I was thinking about it, I mean, there seems like two potential explanations. One could be a sort of fragile ego state of wreck, right, which wouldn't really fall into the category of gaslighting per se, but rather not being able to handle the emotional heavy lifting that sort of require to remain in that environment. But if you get that far and you claim to love this person so much to the point that like they filled a hole in your. your heart you're going to give up on that fast especially when she still can continue to say

confirming things like he said it wasn't enough or he didn't like the way it was worded but she said you're my number one and i was giving you i'm giving you a rose this week so she was saying what she could like not legally but like you know per the norms of bachelorette language it seems like possibilities is that he literally was unable to dwell in the uncertainty that it felt too insecure, too vulnerable, too difficult to sort of manage and navigate, and or if we explore the gaslighting possibility, if there was a part of him that wasn't feeling the same way about her, sort of turning around the situation as a way to be the more sympathetic character in a way to sort of escape the situation without blame. Is that sort of where your gaslighting

hypothesis came in? Yes. Yes. And then I'm also kind of like thinking, I mean, this is like a whole, this is like my theory now is, okay, so a couple months ago, we saw that Katie liked a tweet from Greg that that was referring to Greg about him being an actor. And like he, and then we found out that he had taken acting classes or whatnot. And then I, and now watching this makes me feel like the guy must have never had strong feelings and the entire time he planned this. gaslighting sort of situation to flip their relationship ending on her and not him. And like, it was all planned. So maybe that's a little bit more of a conspiracy theory. But that does sound pretty involved.

Dr. Golscher, like, when I lose control, it's something I've had to work on in my life. I do like react poorly oftentimes when I start to feel like things are slipping out of the plan that I had in place or if I feel like, hey, I'm leading a project at work and now that project is being ripped from me because somebody's a little more outspoken coming up from, you know, a different angle and now I have to take a step back and as a result, like I react poorly in those situations. I'm working on that. Now in life, and it's always good to get your opinions on this and in a situation like we see, see Gregon where he's losing control. The environment is heavier and more confusing for him than really what he can handle. How do we in life, because we've all been in those situations, how do we handle those situations well? And what are the tools and the steps that we can take to process this and not end up allowing

it to harm ourselves and others? Yeah, yeah, that really is the bottom line question, isn't it? I mean, the environment in which Greg finds himself doesn't allow for personal reflection and pause, right? And I think that's part of the potential problem here. But outside of that environment, a key to the question you just asked is being able to pause and to reflect and to allow the feelings that you're having, whatever, however uncomfortable they are, however insecure, however vulnerable, however dark to surface. you know what we suppress shows up as symptoms shows up the symptoms if we don't deal with dark thoughts dark feelings dark emotions that we're having it shows up some other way whether it comes out you know with physical symptoms like stomach aches and body shakes or it comes out through

irritability or difficulty sleeping or it comes out through depression or anxiety it comes out so as to not have it come out in a way that we haven't chosen and in ways that can be harmful and hurtful to others, we have to pause and we have to allow ourselves to have those difficult, deep conversations about what we're feeling, whether it's with loved ones or a professional to sort of deal with the feelings that are underneath, so our behaviors aren't just coming from that hurt place. Do you feel like this is a normal reaction to someone's ego being bruised? You know, I mean, my answer actually is potentially, I'm not saying it's, it's the, the most advisable one or one that is easy to watch.

But I do think this can happen. First of all, we have someone in Greg dealing with a pretty, the backdrop of a pretty intense emotional trauma, and that his father passed away. I'm not sure the timing, but I know that's true. Yeah, and so when we have trauma in our life, and certainly that falls in that category, old ineffective coping mechanisms can

come back and be much more difficult to control. And so given that truth and given that it's not uncommon for hurt people to hurt other people, it's possible. And I have no idea if it applies, but it's possible that if he was feeling not chosen, feeling that hurt, that vulnerable, that exposed to somehow sort of look at the situation as him not being chosen, it's not entirely impossible to imagine that someone might react by rejecting the other before they get rejected. It is a super complex situation.

And this isn't, though, and you mentioned like, this isn't super uncommon. This isn't like we're watching something on television right now that we've never seen before and that none of us have an example. This is happening all around us. And so to close out here, before we let you go, if we see behavior that is not helpful, it is toxic,

it is hurtful happening in our friends' relationships and our own relationships. What advice do you have for us to be able to help? Yeah, I mean, to kind of take it from both perspectives, if you see someone doing the hurting, you know, to be able to approach someone in a firm, direct, but empathetic matter, are you hurting? You must be hurting because I see you're hurting others. And I love you enough to call it out.

I love you enough to say it out loud. And I love you enough to offer my friendship, my love to help you find your way out of this. Because I think we often forget that in our sphere we may have someone we see doing the hurting. And then if we are around someone who is being hurt to be able in that same way to be very direct, I see you're being hurt. I see you're being treated in a way that hurts my heart. I see that something in your life, in this relationship.

is not sort of holding you up as the person that you are. What can I do to help you? Can I be an era to listen to you? What resources can we put together to think this through? We don't want to alienate someone by saying, this person isn't treating you well. You need to leave. I won't stand for it another minute because maybe we lose access to them

because it can often be a journey out of toxic dynamic. So we want to be open, compassionate, and a soft place for them to fall. Kind of going off of that, just, I'm sorry, just one more. Is this like a relationship we should even be rooting for anymore? Like, because he insists that he's in love with her, but it just didn't seem like an action that would have come out of love, true love.

In terms of rooting, I guess I would say this. What we didn't see and what you would hope to see in a relationship that feels like it could be stable and supportive and loving in the long run is an ability to have an effective, productive conversation about what was happening. And there was a lot of walking around each other instead of either one of them being able to say like, hey, I'm feeling super hurt, I'm feeling super vulnerable, I find myself shutting down, I find myself feeling confused, what's happening here? Can we get back to the love and the connection that we have and find our way out of this? Instead of they were sort of rehashing details and narratives rather than really being able to get to the heart of the issue. And it's something that you want to see for couples long term, being able to. to not just talk around things, but being able to tackle really deep, dark, difficult emotions. And that really seemed to be lacking on both of their parts in this scenario. We always appreciate your time.

Thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing this with us. It's always healthy. It's always helpful. And we appreciate you. Dr. Hilary Golcher, thank you so much. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Thank you, guys. Bye. Bye. So, Ben, going off of that, after seeing what we saw and after seeing the scene to the next episode, I'm feeling like she's not going to pick anyone. And I feel like she may go after Greg. And then I don't think she's going to end up being with Greg currently. I would agree with you.

I don't know about the Greg piece of this. I don't, there's so much that has to happen in one episode for this. for this to work in like a fairy tale love story ending like just so and I just don't see how that could be one more episode all of this happens in one episode and all of a sudden we're rooting for them like it just is hard for me to understand that right now I think it's either my my if I was a betting man which at times of my life I am I would say that she's not with anybody and this ended tragically just kind of disappointing for her and that some of the men that she's was closest with and had the most potential with either left or just it didn't work out for them and I think she ends this asking why and wondering what do I do now if I'm going to flip this a little bit towards a positive direction possibly she tells Justin and Blake that she's done with the process she planned you know she planned on picking Greg nuts on how it went and then perhaps she rekindles things with Blake in real life

holy moly Ashley and they just like date for a while I don't know she definitely doesn't get engaged there's been no teasers of a ring or like a dress and like the step out of the car or anything like that I don't even think she makes it to the

I don't even think there's like a ceremony thing at the end like I don't even think there's a last rose given I think it just ends but we haven't seen that in a while, never, really. I mean,

when's the last time we saw somebody walk away? Isn't it Brad Walmack was just the last one who just didn't pick anyone? Yeah, it's just interesting. Well, it's not how I expected this season to end,

especially with how great these contestants seemed at the beginning and how great Katie was doing throughout. But it also makes sense on how these stories have progressed, where they've kind of ended in this place of limbo and confusion and pain, and it's going to be a really odd way for this season to end, if that's how it ends.

Well, we'll be back next week breaking down the finale of Katie Thurston's season of The Bachelorette. I promise, we're going to be here talking about it. And before then, we got some headlines to go through right after this break. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Well, wait a minute, Sam, maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend has been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her.

Now, he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Now, hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That sounds totally inappropriate. Well, according to this person, this is her boyfriend's former professor, and they're the same age. It's even more likely that they're cheating. He insists there's nothing between them. I mean, do you believe him?

Well, he's certainly trying to get this person to believe him, because he now wants them both to meet. So, do we find out if this person's boyfriend really cheated with his professor or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it.

They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen.

I was just like, ah, got you. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum. the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chees-me. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh.

Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is The Deva of the People. The Deva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it.

Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love. friendship, heart breaks, men, and, of course, our favorite secrets.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's HoneyGerman, and my podcast, Grasias Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment, with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in like over 25 years.

Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vibras you've come to expect.

And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's time for one of our favorites.

especially when the episode doesn't live up to our hopes and dreams. It's Bachelor headlines. Well, Ashley, are you ready? Are you educated? Take it away. The first headline is this. Katie Thurston reveals the Bachelorette advice she gave Michelle Young. The quote is, just be open.

She is starting her season this week, I believe. Michelle's taping starts this week. So Katie said, I've spoken to her as much as I can because I know it's any day now. that they're going to take her phone away. I think the biggest advice I've given to her is just be open. Don't close yourself off too early. I think guys could surprise you weeks later when you don't expect it. And then there's one guy that Katie actually singled out from her season that she thinks

would be a great match for Michelle. She says it's IT consultant Josh. She thinks that Josh would be a good match for Michelle because they have similar personalities. He's such a sweetheart. And I think she says that he, is what she's looking for, somebody who's just so kind-hearted. And that's something that Josh really offers. Well, that's interesting.

Why would she be going on and on about this Josh guy? Is he going to pull a Blake? It is a possibility. Now, the difference between Josh and Blake is this. I don't even know who she's talking about. I have to look this guy up. At least Blake I kind of knew the name of. Do you remember a Josh?

Yes. Yes, yes. I do. I remember his face now. But I don't think he played a very large role. I think he barely spoke. I'm looking them up now Yeah, yeah, yeah

This is who I thought it was Oh yeah Okay Yeah That makes sense I mean Hey I would be awesome

If Katie Thurston Could set up her friend Michelle With this guy Because he looks like a nice guy Seems like a nice guy Just be open She says

Well next Headline of the week This is one that I heart sent over During the week Week weekend And they said Wow big story We got in our chat

Yeah Bachelorette Thurston reveal she accidentally used toy cleaner instead of lube this according to us. You guys ow how uncomfortable

and I don't mean in a cringy way I mean like an actual like physically perhaps painful way she said I woke up this morning and realized I used toy cleaner like sex toy cleaner instead of loop last night and then one fan said to look on the

bright side and she's said, it says non-irritating, so that should be okay. And she said that's the first thing that she checked once she realized. And she was like, okay, at least it's not irritating. So I guess the fact that Katie didn't realize until the morning after really does mean that it was non-irritating. But for some reason, this headline makes me feel like she ends up with Blake because this just sounds like something Blake would be okay with her sharing with the world. I mean I'm still going with that I don't think she ends up with anybody that's just my opinion but well you know what yeah that's that's my opinion too now but at the same time this just I don't know

this sounds a little Blake like Blake written all over okay so Ashley headline reads this Katie Thurston and Bachelor at season 17 cast reveal their top choices for next bachelor this according to us backstage at men tell all it seems like Katie and a lot of the contestants aren't ready to campaign for a lead for season 26 of The Bachelor. But of course, the name that has been thrown around the most has been Michael A. He said in his own interview, I just got my heartbroken like 20 minutes ago. I'm really not thinking about anything like that. They would have to change a lot like it's not the same season with me.

So one, it's not, it's not been offered. And two, there haven't been any conversations. And three, I see a lot of risks and issues that do not, that are not of interest to me. And I'm not easily flattered either. So the main thing is this. If I did this, I do, do I think it would be possible to pursue that kind of love again? I don't know. Andrew was also a popular pick amongst, like, the names that were thrown out.

there, of course. I am pretty sure Michael is alluding to the fact that he would not do the entire season without his son being involved. It makes sense. I mean, the guy's already shown the lengths he'll go to continue to be an involved father, which meant him leaving the show this season. So my pick goes to Michael and Andrew also. My vote doesn't really matter. I'm not a part of the commission board. But also, Katie Thurston shares her opinion on which of her bachelorette. Contestants will rule in Bachelor in Paradise. It may shock you, this according to us weekly. She says she's torn between Connor and Aaron.

She says, Connor is such a sweetheart. He's such a lover. But Aaron was like built for paradise. And I know what she means by that. He's so dramatic. So we'll see. But both of them will be down there. It will be interesting to watch as we get closer.

Well, final Bachelor in Paradise headline of this week is Bachelor in Paradise share his first look at David Spade and more celebrity guest host headed to the beach. This according to E. Basically, it's just that the photos were posted and this year there were photos of the guest host as if they were contestants. You know what I mean? Like that beach in the background, palm tree in the background photo of we got Little John, Titus, Lance, and David Spade.

all there ready to conduct the show. It's going to be interesting. And Ashley, I know you're excited about it airing. Ashley, after talking with a couple people now who have been down to Paradise and having a little more idea

of what Paradise will look for, are you getting excited about this? Are you nervous that it's going to be a letdown? I am like, I don't really get excited until like the moment comes. And like I'm watching it. So I'm sure that in, what, is it, two weeks when it comes on, I'll be, I'll be enthralled.

Yeah. Okay. Well, last couple headlines of the day. Bachelor host, Chris Harrison, has no regrets over exit. His quote is, I wish everybody the best. This is one of the first times we've heard from Chris since his exit from the show. It was his 50th birthday last week. Happy birthday to Chris.

He looks great for his age. 50's so young still He says I will say It's been kind of nice To have after 19 years My Mondays back Including last night

I got to celebrate my birthday Thanks to this beautiful woman His girlfriend Lauren Zima And I was with my family And friends And it was absolutely awesome So that's nice to hear He and Lauren are going on

Three years together That's a lot That is a lot And it's really sweet They look like they're very Very happy Well final two headlines of the week as Tasha Adams and Zach Clark renew their wishes on one year anniversary.

This was so cute over the weekend. They celebrated one year of knowing each other. And if you guys remember, they threw coins into a fountain when they first met on her first night of being the Bachelorette. And when they did make that wish a year ago, they said they did so with the promise to tell one day each of, other what was what the wish was um so the the quote the caption says at approximately this time 365 days ago i met you it's been a wild ride so far with our lives going a million miles an hour but how lucky are we to have had an amazing week together at the place where it all started so they went down to oh my gosh what was it lequinta um together for the week and she continues to

say and we were able to renew our wishes one year later wild happy to have you by my side clarky one for three and then zach said i hope your wish came true and i hope you take a minute to breathe and appreciate all you have done in the past 365 days since we met you have done more in a year than most people do in a lifetime like winning an m tv movie award and most importantly tons of others the public does not get to see which includes showing up

for the people you love including me thank you so I would think are they just not going to tell us what they wish for at that fountain a year ago is that going to be a secret between the two of them?

Yeah yeah it's a lot well really sweet and really excited to see them celebrate well final headline is a celebration of a former Bachelorette contestant, Bachelor in Paradise Contestant,

somebody that was on, shared a season with me and just one of the nicest men in the world. Bachelorette's Ben Zorn marries his girlfriend, Stacey, or I guess, fiancé, Stacey, nearly two years after their engagement. Yeah, so Ben said,

Stacey and I are so ecstatic to finally have our wedding After delaying it a year and having our baby boy, Logan, we looked forward to it for so long. Everything was perfect and we were surrounded by friends and family from all chapters of our life in one of our favorite parts of California. It took place at the Triple S Ranch in Napa and Bachelor Nation's Derek Path and Matt Donald were present. That's interesting. How did he and Matt Donald become friends? Who knows?

But they were and they were there to support. And that's something awesome. Congratulations to Stacey and Ben on their recent nuptials. Hey, that's it for today. It was great talk with you all. It was great breaking down the hometowns. Ashley, I'm glad that you're here to speak with us. Have a great night.

We cannot wait. I tell you this, to find out what you all find out tonight about the sex of your new baby. Well, with that, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. Bye, guys. Thanks, Ben. Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcasts on IHeartRadio

Or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts My Boyfriend's Professor is way too friendly And now I'm seriously suspicious Wait a minute Sam Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit Well Dakota luckily it's back to school week On the OK Storytime podcast So we'll find out soon

This person writes My boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot He doesn't think it's a problem But I don't trust her Now he's insisting we get to know each other But I just want her gone Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes.

Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex.

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number. a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA.

Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology is already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.