The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - S21, #5: Paradise Lost and Paradise Found

Episode Date: June 20, 2017

Ben and Ashley do a deep dive into the Bachelor in Paradise Scandal…AND Ben shares a naked shower story. Plus callers seek advice. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. Hey, Ashley, we are not together today. Yeah, we are separate again. Can you come back here? I would love to. But unfortunately, to everybody out there, if I sound a little different, I am stuck at work. So I could not make it to the studio today. I am on a telephone in my office.

So if you hear me breathing, or if you hear me breathing, or if I'm not. I'm a little bit staticy, that's why, but we could not miss out on a great week of conversation between Ashley and I. I'm excited for this podcast. We have a lot to talk about. So much, because, of course, we have to update you guys on Paradise. But before that, we have a caller. We do.

Sarah from Pittsburgh has listened to Ashley and I give dating advice before. So Sarah, what's your dating issue? Hi guys. So I was casually dating a guy for about six months and about two weeks ago after he was being a little bit weird and short through text message and too busy to hang out like we used to. I just was like, hey, you know, what's up? I like you. Like what's going on? And his response was, you know, I'm really busy with work and don't want a relationship and we're really not a good fit. So it's nothing personal. And I was like super. were, you know, taken aback because we were casually dating, like I said, for about six months. He pursued me. You know, we were exclusive in that we weren't dating other people, but we were never, you know, labeled anything. So, you know, am I, is he just trying to being a jerk? Or is there a hidden thing here, you know, something like that?

I want a guy's perspective, and then I want, obviously, someone to sympathize with me a little bit, Ashley. Okay, go for it, Ben. Yeah, my advice would be don't date him anymore. I haven't spoken at all since then, obviously. You know, my honest advice here would be it sounds like this guy, and I don't know him, but just from what I know from you, he doesn't have the Cajonese to step up to the plate and say, hey, this isn't working out for me. He had to have you kind of approach him to get that out of his mouth.

And I don't like that. I think people break up. It's unfortunate. It's never easy. You know, it's a hard thing to do. You know, not everybody is compatible. Right. But what is true, we each deserve to know where the other person stands,

especially when you are sharing a piece of yourself with that person. Right. So I would say if he doesn't have the respect for you to come to you and say, hey, I'm just not feeling this, which is a totally okay thing. That doesn't mean anything for you. It doesn't take anything away from him. Then this guy is somebody that you do. need to work on now kind of moving forward from away from and pushing away there's nothing

wrong with you here it sounds like if anything there's something wrong with his confidence in himself to portray to you where he's at that's true i never really looked at it as a respect thing but that's a good way to think of it because if he did respect me to just be honest he would have been honest in the first place i guess or you know come up front about it so that's a good point i didn't think about it like that you know it doesn't sound like you're super depressed about him i think you kind of know he's a jerk yeah i mean i it was like i said it was a casual thing but i was i was interested in seeing what you know the future would hold i'm obviously not crying myself to sleep over it you know you know well i have a theory you're probably not gonna want to hear it no i totally want to hear

it probably met a girl that he liked a little more that's i think i think so too i that's what i think also because that's yeah yeah he was keeping you around for six months because you were fun for six months and he liked you but then right You know, it wasn't ever going to be a serious long-term thing, and then he met someone else that he wanted to spend more time. That was, like, a more serious thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're okay with that.

But don't take that anything away from you. If he did or not, I think you need to feel good about yourself. And oftentimes the negativity that we might spread on other people, especially in relationships, what I believe is really an internal feeling how we feel about ourselves. So for him not to tell you that, hey, I just found somebody I think I'm more compatible with, to me, is weak. It's a very weak move on the part of a man. Yeah, and six months in, you know, either commit or break up.

That's my... And I guess we got the breakup. Yeah. I guess that's what I got here. Yeah, and, you know, honestly, it just sounds like a good stepping stone to the rest of the relationships that will come your way in life. And Ashley and I just wish you the best. Thank you for calling in today. We appreciate you just kind of allowing us to get our mind spinning about these kind of topics.

There are things I don't think about often. I appreciate all the help I can get, guys. I listen to you all the time, and I listen to Ashley's other podcast, so I'm like a biggest fan ever. Thank you. Oh, of course. Thank you guys. Because you're going to be on it, all right? Oh, my gosh, I can't wait.

I'll be, like, counting a minute. All right, sounds good. Well, thank you so much. Okay, have a good day. Thanks for your time. All right, we're going to send it over real quick to Ray and Texas, who has a very special question for my co-host, Ashley. Hello. Hey, Ray.

Hi. Hi. Oh, my God. Okay. Ashley, I'm a big, big fan. Ben, I'm a big fan of you as well, but Ashley, I'm a huge fan of your I don't get a podcast. I tweet you like every day that I'm serious. My sister is sitting right next to you right now.

She also appreciates it. Oh, my God. It's so cool. So I know that you had a date recently. Well, you went out on a date with this guy in March and then recently had a date and you were like kind of thinking potentially he could be your first boyfriend. Oh, God, that's so embarrassing to hear in words at 29. No, no, that is not embarrassing.

But I was just wondering like if anything has like happened since he left or anything. You know what's funny is like I will talk so much about the bad dates. but then when you have a good date, you kind of want to be more private about it. So I went on a date with him. I guess it was a week and a half ago. And now he's been gone. He's been home, which we actually are from the same county at home. He's been home for a week and a half now.

He left like two days after our date. And I'm going to see him on Monday. Oh, that's exciting. That is so exciting. It is good, you guys. Third date. Woohoo! That's a big deal. Yeah, fingers, that's for you.

Thank you. Is it official? So, Ashley, help me out here, because I haven't listened to your. I don't get it podcast yet, but I've heard it's amazing. So is this, I mean, where do you guys stand? Relationship-wise, are you dating other people? Is he dating other people? I don't think he's dating other people, but Ben, this first date happened in March.

And then I didn't see him again until, like, two weeks ago. And then of course, like I see him And he blames a whole bunch of different reasons on Why that was But like I think I trust him He's saying like very He's saying a lot of things that make me feel very good about the situation But then again, you guys, it's only my third date with him on one day

So we'll work out of your friends beforehand Yeah, yeah, yeah I knew him, I was friendly with him beforehand, yeah Okay, well hey Ray, thanks for the call and we appreciate it Yes, thank you Great question I will report back. Okay, awesome.

You know, one of the best parts about this podcast so far for me, Ashley, is there are so many people that message me or message you that take such an interest in your love life. They really want to see you happy. They really want to see, you know, if you didn't desire to be in relationship, then, you know, this wouldn't be a topic we ever talk about. It would just be something that you've chosen to not pursue. But because you desire to be in a relationship with somebody, it is something that I think so many people are really. rooting for you for. And so I love when people call in truly interested in how you're doing and who you're meeting and because I think they see in you somebody that is so special and so great and somebody that's going to be a huge catch one day. Well, thanks, Ben. Yes. I think that is one of

the funniest slash coolest things about being on the bathtub franchise is that you'll get people coming up to you in all the weirdest places. Like I was on a cruise and I was eating lunch. And this like 70-something year old woman is like, Ashley, I've been. praying for you. I've been praying for you to find the love of your life. And then she told me her love stories. And they're amazing. It's one of my favorite parts of being part of this.

Yeah, it's amazing. You have a lot of people who are in for you, Ashley. And now I think we're going to switch gears here. You know, these two callers are great. And I really love talking to people. And I hope we can do that more and more as this podcast continues. But this week we have so much going on and so much to talk about that we actually had to have a special emergency podcast.

last week to talk about all this Bachelor in Paradise stuff. It's obviously something that we got a lot of press over for talking about. You know, you and I both, I think, are very clear. And maybe, you know, we didn't communicate this as well as we should have. But people seem to appreciate the podcast. But we also need to say we have very, we have no comments or opinions on the situation because we just don't know a lot. And we said that last week, but I want to be clear that Ashley and I are just trying to invest from who we know is really trying to track down the truth of the story, that any assumptions

or any blame we're not going to place on anybody until the truth is out, until we have more facts, until we know the situation. Because right now, all we know is what we're hearing. And so we're going to have to continue this conversation this week because there's been some updates since we talked last time, some really big updates that I don't exactly know what they mean for this situation. And Ashley, as we talked earlier, I don't think you do either, right? No, you and I are on the same page and all this. And everything out there, the only thing that's really confirmed is what Warner Brothers will tell us right now. Exactly. Yeah. So we brought in

Jackie Strauss again from the Hollywood Reporter. She's done an amazing story. Jackie joined us for our podcast last week and is, you know, just simply sharing what they know, what the facts are. And I And I think this is a source that we want to continue to tap back into because we don't want to start any new rumors. We don't want to add damage to a situation that's really hard on a lot of people right now, especially the people immediately involved and affected by this. And so we called Jackie back this week to hear about the updates. Jackie, you out there? Hi. Yes, I'm here.

Welcome back to the Almost Famous podcast with Ashley and I. Thanks for having me back. Thanks for being here. Yeah, there's been a lot since we last spoke. Some big updates. There has been? I was just going to see if you could share those with us. Well, I mean, when we last spoke, we weren't identifying the two people at the center of this because they hadn't spoken out.

And now they have, as I'm sure you guys were discussing earlier, who they are, which the listeners know already. Actually, we weren't. So do you want to say, do you want to clarify? Yeah, so it's Corinne Olympios and DeMars. Jackson. So Corinne was on Nick's season and DiMario was recently eliminated on Rachel's season. And Corinne spoke out officially first. She hired a Top Highwood publicist and attorney and released a statement of her publicist. And what she said was, to quote her actually, she said, I'm a victim and have spent the last week trying to make sense of what happened on June 4th. And, you know, she went on to say that she had little memory of that night, but that something bad did take, obviously did take place, and that's why she's retaining professionals to help find that out.

And then not that long after DeMario released his own statement, saying that he sought legal counsel, and that he planned to take, to quote from him, swift an appropriate legal action to clear his name. and at this point it's not clear if he's retained a lawyer it seems that he is still deciding how to proceed but he has definitely sought legal counsel in the matter and as far as demario goes that would be for like like making his public image slander slander right i doesn't want to i want to i want to slander not liable right yeah i mean i actually want you guys to talk to our legal reporter who i believe you're going to speak to right after me and she can get into everything a little bit more officially than I can. She's spoken to a lot of lawyers about this and reports on legal cases daily for us at THR. I think that there's been a lot of conversation around this footage. As far as we know, neither Corinne or DiMario have seen it, but that doesn't totally mean that it will be conclusive. I mean, I think it becomes an issue about what Warner Brothers can determine

from looking at the footage because the people who are conducting the investigation have obviously seen it and the producers who were there filming it or maybe perhaps were in the editing room has seen it but that doesn't mean that every producer who was there including the producer who filed this complaint saw it do you think that the people of america will ever see these tapes that's a good question i mean i think no one involved wants this tape out i mean i can't imagine Corinne and DeMario, I mean, it's a personal moment between them, so obviously they don't want that tape out. And I think that would, I mean, it would certainly change things in terms of Warner Brothers and ABC if it were to get out. If it comes a court case, wouldn't it be used?

I don't believe it's going to get to that point, and you can ask my colleague when you speak to her to. I mean, these things tend to get settled, and I think especially by Corinne retaining a lawyer like Marty Singer, who has, he's really a master litigator. He's rep the legs of Charlie Sheen and Paul Abdul and John Travolta. I mean, you know, he's, he knows that he's doing, and I don't think that it would get to the point where they go to court over there. Well, Jackie, thank you again for joining us this week. You know, I think if we can continue to tap into you as our resource for this, as the upcoming weeks come about because you have been nothing but honest and truthful. And as I said last time, you're not trying to create a story.

You're trying to share a story and share the facts. So Jackie Strauss, the East Coast digital editor from the Hollywood Reporter. Thank you for joining us again. And we look forward to talking to you soon. Bye, Jackie. Yeah. Thanks, guys. So just let's turn it right over to Ashley Collins, the staff reporter for the Hollywood reporter.

She is kind of going to be, I guess, for lack of a better term, our legal expert or our legal analyst on this case right now. Ashley, how are you doing? I'm doing well, thanks. How are you? Really well. Thank you for joining Ashley and I. Of course. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, Ashley, thank you for joining Ashley. Okay. Ashley, you know, I think the easiest way to do this right now is just to ask you, you know, we just got the update from Jackie on the situation and that Corinne and Amara have been announces the two people involved in this case and that Corinne has now hired a lawyer and a publicist to speak on her behalf. What does this mean for this whole investigation now? What does it mean?

Well, who Corinne hired is a pretty strong sign that this is going to settle pretty quickly. Marty Singer is the guy you call in Hollywood when you want a situation handled. And I think it's in everyone's best interest that this whole conversation ends. You know, the network doesn't want this casting a shadow over its show. I'm sure Corinne and DeMario don't want their sex life being even more speculated about than it already has been. So I think now that at least Corinne has a Hollywood heavy hitter in our corner,

this is probably going to end pretty quickly. So you're saying that it would be settled and not a court case? I would think so. Most cases settle. So it would definitely not be surprising if this one did too. And there's a lot at stake for everybody involved. And so I wouldn't be surprised if they come to some sort of an agreement even before the show finishes its final report on what happened because by this

point in the game, I've talked to several attorneys who investigate things like these for corporations and they say that at 10 days in, what are 10 days in probably, the company has a good idea of what happened and they've probably reached some sort of a preliminary conclusion and that's enough info for them to assess their own liability and start thinking about cutting a deal And what does settling, hey, this is Amy, what does settling mean as far as public perception and the future of the franchise? That's a fantastic question. Yeah. On one hand, settling kind of implies guilt.

But on the other hand, these companies are very good at crafting public statements that are non-apologies. So I'm sure they're probably working on a way where ever. Everyone walks away from this slightly unhappy. That's the goal of a settlement. Nobody is going to love the end result, but everybody can live with it. So I think if ABC and Warner Brothers find some way to say, we're really sorry this happened, we're taking steps to make sure this kind of question is never raised again, and we've come to an agreement with Corinne and DeMario, and everyone is happy.

with it, that's probably the effect of what we're going to hear from them. They're not going to say they did anything wrong. They're not going to give us any specific details as to what they gave them in return for making this all go away. But it'll, you know, close the door and hopefully people will move on to the next story in Bachelor Nation. I have two questions. when it comes to drinking and sexual assault cases, how does it normally go down?

Like, what's the protocol? Like, what does blackout even mean? And how does that affect sexual assault cases? Yeah, it is definitely a sensitive topic, but I think it's important to talk about because this may be the first time this has happened with a bachelor show, but this happens all the time on college campuses. Exactly. That's what I was thinking.

And one of the attorneys I spoke with, a big part of her job, is investigating these kinds of claims that happen on a college campus. And the thing that we have to remember here is that if they were both drunk, it's very possible they both failed to consent. And it's a tricky situation because one of the attorneys I talked to flat out said, theoretically, they could both be victims of sexual assault and because sexual assault isn't a specific intent crime you don't have to mean to do it you can accidentally do it they both could also be perpetrators of it so wow yeah it's really complicated and it kind of runs counter to common sense because in the situation people want someone to hold responsible i got a tweet yesterday saying that some girl has been blacked out before and there's been footage of it this is just like a fan she's blacked out there's

footage of it but in the footage she looks totally lucid like she looks fine so this is possible absolutely people process alcohol differently and i'm not a doctor but i think it's safe to say that most people have probably been in a situation where they've been out with their friends and they feel more drunk than their friends realize they are so i don't necessarily think producers are properly trained, maybe they should be, maybe they are, about how to recognize when somebody's had too much alcohol, because some people can drink a lot and still seem like they're functioning when in reality, they're totally inebriated and not capable of making their own decisions. And I guess it depends on the person, because I know

that if I'm drunk, I'm throwing up. The second that I get spinny, it's done. But I guess other people, you know, they can go for a while without really showing it outwardly. Yeah, it's, I think dramatically can vary from person to person and really only a doctor or somebody who's been trained for signs to look for that might be less obvious. I know bartenders across the country, you know, go through training as to when they're supposed to cut somebody off. So maybe it's a question of if alcohol is going to remain a part of these shows, maybe producers need to receive the same kind of training that those bartenders do.

Okay, my second question is, if this does go to court, which we are thinking it'll be settled, but if it does, will the tapes be involved? Yes. And will they be shown to a jury? Probably not. Judges in situations like this err on the side of protecting the privacy of the individuals who are involved, especially in cases that could involve sexual assault. So I don't think there's any way a jury sees this.

If it's submitted as evidence, it would likely be submitted under seal either so only the judge can see it or only the judge and the people directly involved with the law suit so the individuals, the company, and their lawyers could see it. It is definitely important, but it might not be definitive, because even though this filming happened in Mexico, chances are that these contracts say they're ruled under California law, and California law requires affirmative consent. It's not just don't say no. It's, can I do this?

Yes. Well, how about this? Yes. It's not something that really happens a lot in daily life, but legally, that is what is supposed to happen. So if there's no evidence that that happened on camera, that's a strong indicator that she might have a claim. But it doesn't definitively say, well, it could have happened off camera, you know, because they film a lot, but I would imagine that they do miss some things. Just simply devil's eye to begin for a second. What I am making out with a guy or something, I never say, yes, you can do this.

Yeah, it's weird. It's a relatively new law in California. But on this season of The Bachelorette, for example, Fred asked Rachel if he could kiss her. And her response was, oh, my God, nobody's ever asked me that before they just do it. And it doesn't have to be, from my understanding of the law. It doesn't have to be a verbal yes. It could be a nod, a smile, or whatever. But you've got to try to find out whether or not what you're doing is welcome.

So I guess just to kind of clean things up here, because I'm listening to two of you talking. It's great, and I'm learning a ton. I'm learning a lot, actually. And my question is, who exactly would either party then if they both could be victims of assault? If we're saying that is a possible conclusion that we're going to come to here in this case, who then exactly is, who do they have a case against? Do they actually then have a case against Warner Brothers and ABC, or do they just have a case against each other?

And that's where things here are really complicated because we don't know, because these contracts are so all-encumbering, and a lot of it is going to come down to the specific wording of the contract. And the closest we've come to getting an answer on this topic happened a couple of years ago with one of the Real World Road Rules Challenge series. One of the contestants said she was sexually assaulted and she sued the production company and MTV, and she argued that she was an employee, and therefore they owed her a duty of responsibility to make sure she was safe, and they obviously disagreed with her, but they reached a settlement

before the court made any decisions on the matter. So I would imagine that those same questions would be raised here if this does, in fact, go to court. Okay, I have to say this. The contract says by going to paradise, you could be risking death, and you have to sign that you're okay with this. So I'm figuring it has to cover what's gone down there. Um, theoretically, yes, ABC Warner, they have the best lawyer's money can buy, but there are some things you can't contract. To paraphrase one of the attorneys I spoke to, you can't contract criminal activity. So if something illegal happens on your watch and these people are in your care, because this is not a typical. employer-employee relationship, you know, you don't generally live at your office and eat food

and drink booze that is given to you by your bosses. So there are a lot of complicating factors here, but I would imagine that the lawyers would be arguing that what happened here falls outside the scope of the contract. So basically, if I went bungee jumping on a date in paradise and died, well, that's in the contract, but this is not covered. Yeah, unless a producer, you know, didn't hook up your bungee properly. Like, unless there was some kind of negligence on the part of this show. Yeah, this is supposed to be Paradise. It almost sounds funny to think of a death waiver being signed to go to Paradise.

But I guess that's the case. And this is, you know, this is obviously Ashley something that is super heavy. You know, I'm just sitting here right now listening to this as almost an observer and just saying, man, this is pulling my heart a lot for a lot of different reasons. This is obviously there are rumors. We still don't know, and correct me if I'm wrong, there still has not been a suit filed, and so we still don't know what the claims will be. We have rumors of what the claims will be.

We do know that Kerenice came out and said she is a victim, and DeMara has not came out and said anything yet. But either way, there is a lot of heaviness and a lot of sadness involved in this situation. And I think all we can ask for from the public's point of view and then also for the people involved, including, as we know right now, Corinne and DeMire, that the truth is told that they come to a resolution that might not fix a situation, but at least allows all parties involved to walk away feeling like there is hopefully forgiveness, I guess, because that's all we can ask for in life, right? Like mistakes are going to be made. This one might be super heavy, and I can't even speak on it really.

But I hope that through all of this, that the truth is told and then forgiveness is able to be had because that's the important thing here. Ashley Collins, the staff reporter for the Hollywood Reporter, thank you for coming on. This was incredibly compelling to me, especially to hear you and Ashley talk about this. And I hope to get you back on the phone again soon, if you're okay with it, to kind of hear updates as this goes on. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Ashley.

It was great. It's a little heavy, Ashley. Very heavy. I honestly don't even know kind of how to move on from that. I know. I really put my L. Woods hat on there. You did. And you asked some great questions. And some questions, you know, some of the things that kind of stand out to me that I wrote down that were important to know was that, you know, because of the situation, you know, both people could be victims here, right? I mean, we don't know, we don't know how the scenario played out or what exactly went down. We don't have the footage. But it's interesting to think that both people could arguably be victims.

this case. And it'll be, to me, we will try to continue to track down information to figure out exactly what went on. And part of that will be continuing to speak to people like Sam Rubin, the entertainment reporter from KTLA, Channel 5 in Los Angeles. Sam, I know that you have kind of studied this case a little bit, and you have a perspective that others might not have. And Ashley and I want to hear, what exactly is that? My perspective is this is extraordinarily damning for the show, and I think this, I don't think you'll see Bachelor in Paradise on television basically ever again, and I think it pretends tremendous problems for The Bachelor in general.

And here's the dilemma, and I mean, you guys have lived it. There's a distinction between the way we and the general public see this kind of, you know, fantasy show and what really goes on. And so you tell me, are we better served by just enjoying the show in our homes as we do? I don't think we want to know too much. I don't think we really want to know all the behind the things, machinations. And so, you know, some sort of Bachelor in Paradise trial that would reveal all that, I think it would be very damning all the way around.

So my sense is you're going to see a very big check written to Corrine, a very big check written to this other fellow, Mario and a significant effort on Warner Brothers part to frankly have conversations like what we're happening right now not take place because this is this is basically all that well I actually want to clarify from my own perspective personally is that Paradise has this vision of being like raunchy now and then it's just like this horrible sexual assault goes down and like oh my gosh are they hiding this from us every season. And in my two seasons, I'd say absolutely not. The only people that I've known

who have had sex on the resort are people that really get engaged at the end of it. It's really pretty innocent. It's pretty innocent. There's not drunk people. We're not running around. We're not being sloppy. We're literally just sitting around the picnic tables talking. You know, we might be like, we're enjoying a couple, but it's nothing salacious. They're not hiding anything from you, usually. Okay. Well, I think the word usually stands out a little bit. And then one other thing is, and again, you guys would know better than I.

Does the whole thing, you know, spontaneously and genuinely unfold, or does somebody say, hey, actually, you know, Bob over there likes you? You might want to, you know, pay some attention. You know, I think, and I've worked on a much of TV shows, I think there's probably, you know, a lot of subtle or not so subtle manipulation, and that's fine. That's the world of television production. And, you know, in terms of reality shows, that happens on Survivor and every other show, too. But, again, I don't think the general public wants to know that or wants to see it. And if you had some big, massive Bachelor in Paradise trial, all that would be laid bare.

And I think the overall industry and the Bachelor Nation, first and foremost, would not want to have that happen. Definitely. I mean, I think, and Ashley, you know, Sam, I'm just going to join you in this conversation here. I've never been to Paradise. I don't know anything about it. I don't know the format of it. I don't know the scene that it presents. So, Ashley, as I'm hearing you talk here, you're saying this could be just a one-off scenario, right?

the claims that are being made or the rumors that we're hearing, because we still don't, I want to be clear, we still don't have a suit filed. So we don't know exactly the claim that will be made. But we do have rumors, which I don't want to spread any further. That's true. I think we are talking about. In this situation, it is something that seems to be one-off or it seems to be something that maybe took a step farther than seasons that you've participated in the past.

I think the only other time we saw an instance that could be even compared to this was with Chad and Lace last season on the first episode of that season, and I wasn't there for it. And I know it was dramatic and that Chad was more so like saying hurtful things than doing hurtful things. But I, being in paradise for a good chunk of both the past two seasons, never saw any shenanigans like this going down. I'm telling it was like all just very calm. We're just a lot of mature people looking for love. Well, I think that's all well and good. I think there's a terrific fantasy element to it. It's a mature, good-looking people looking for love.

But the other thing in terms of with regards to lawsuits, I don't think there necessarily will ever be a lawsuit. I think this will all get settled. But the lawyer that Corinne hired, and she might have smart family or smart handlers, This guy is one of Hollywood's most notorious bulldogs. His name is Marty Singer. You can Google the name, but anybody in town knows Marty Singer. And you don't hire Marty Singer if you want, you know, if you're going to take a small check and go home.

So, you know, I think that, I tell you what, in a weird way, what this whole thing reminds me of, is the whole thing with Billy Bush when the Axis Hollywood tape came out. So, you know what, that was just an unpleasant, yucky thing. And they just want, more than anything, just make him go away. And so, and I think he wasn't, frankly, treated fairly, but I'm quite confident he was given a very generous settlement to go away. And I think, I think they want this to go away. So we'll see what happens. All right.

Well, Sam, Rubin, the entertainment reporter for KTLA Channel 5 in Los Angeles. You can also follow him, Sam on TV. on Twitter. Sam, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for your perspective on this. Ashley and I are going to dissect this here and try to kind of just make sense of a situation that right now is just starting to come together. So, Sam, thank you again for joining the Almost Famous podcast with Ashley and I. All right, very good. Nice to talk to you guys. Hi. Ashley, you know, I think, you know, we've talked about it to an extent now through this podcast. We have more information than we did last week. We're making sense of a situation

that doesn't make any sense last week, and it's starting to make more since now. We have names. We have an idea of how this is going to play out, considering we've had all three guests of ours say, you know, this Marty Singer, he's a bulldog, he's going to go after it, this isn't just going to be easy. And so let's try to move on now to another show within this franchise, one that is, has taken a week off last week because of the NBA finals took a week off. But this week, The Bachelorette is back. And I want to ask you, before we get into, to talk about the episode, did you watch this week's episode in a different way considering the situation that's going on in Paradise? To be honest, probably not. I actually can separate

them pretty well. And I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to. But I think now that DiMario is no longer on the show. There's nobody there to remind you of what's going on in Paradise. Fair. That's fair. What about you? You know, I think I just think any Bachelor franchise right now

in my mind is going to be effective. I'm affected. I'm almost watching this just from my sense and saying, okay, there's so many people that are working on this show. We're working on the Bachelorette that are probably not giving as much attention in detail to the

Bachelorette as they originally probably wore because of this situation in Paradise. But watching the show itself, you know, you and I both know the Bachelorette has already filmed. You know, the results are already done. The results were done before Paradise was even starting to film. And so I'm going to watch The Bachelorette in a way that I did initially. And that's to hope that a really great person, Rachel, that is, find somebody that she can spend a lifetime with in the show. And I would love to be a part of that.

We've got to talk about one guy coming up here that I think, Rachel, and this guy will be great for each other. The guy's name is Dean, and he came out of nowhere this week, and it's his party to shine. So coming up, we'll talk about Dean. The Ben and Ashley Eye, Almost Famous Podcast, is brought to you by Zeal. In-home massages delivered to you. Download the Zeal app or go to Zeal.com and use promo code Almost Famous to get $25 off your first in-home on-demand massage. So my thoughts on The Bachelorette this week is pretty tame, I'd say, compared to last week. There's three things that stood out to me, and I want to hear your thoughts on it, Ashley.

I believe that this week we could title The Bachelorette episode, Dean's coming out party. Thoughts. Oh, my gosh, Dean. He is the freaking cutest, and yes, I think he emerges as one of the frontrunners after his one-on-one date. Yeah, I mean, for anybody watching, Dean opened up about his history. And just kind of his life story. His life story was something that I found, of course, for lack of a better word, touching. But he did it.

He communicated it in a way that I felt was extremely genuine. And he wasn't looking for sympathy. He was just looking to communicate with Rachel. His story, because you know, you and I both know from our experience on the show, you don't know how much more time you have left. And so the quicker you can kind of share who you are as a person and what brought you to where you are today, the better you are. Right. I completely agree with you. There's always a sob story or two each season, but I've really never cried at those stories. I actually usually cry during the final rose ceremony when they get engaged. I have like those happy tears. But with Dean, that was the first time I really cried listening to somebody's story. Yeah. And I think, I think it just shows that that guy right there has some character. And it's not all, you know, he has character because of the man he is and also the story that he. has to tell and so this we are excited i know we both are about dean in the near future um but two

topics that i'm not that excited about two things that rub me the wrong way this week okay lee one the first lee definitely did but no the first one is josiah talking in third person okay so you hear this a lot right in just life and it's one of my pet peeves i don't know if it's yours but when people talk in third person it shows a level of arrogance that I don't handle well. Yeah. Didn't Chad used to do that? I'm assuming.

I didn't really watch Jojo season as much as probably others. But yeah, I'm sure he said something along the lines of Chad eats me or you know, Chad like girl. That was one thing that stood out to me. The second thing is something that comes up every season

of The Bachelor or Bachelor at. And I don't understand it. I don't get it. I don't know how there continues to be this same thing. played out, but it happens. It happens on my season of The Bachelorette with Caitlin. It happened on your season of The Bachelor with Chris. The wrong reasons, police. Iggy, being the wrong reasons police, he continues to spend his time talking to Rachel about other guys. It doesn't make any sense. Where does

that come from, Ashley? I have no idea. I think the people that tend to be the wrong reasons police are people that feel like they have nothing else to talk to the lead about. Yeah, there may be some insecurities on their own part. I think that's always been told to me is when people communicate a negative behavior, it's usually how they feel about themselves. So maybe he just doesn't know enough about himself

yet to communicate who he is to Rachel and really show her, this is who I am. I don't really care who these other guys are. They're going to be who they want to be to you. But I'm going to be the man that I believe I should be in this moment. Right. and Iggy, unlike Lee is just being self-aware and he actually is like, oh, I'm starting

create drama because I want to create drama. But then Iggy, he's like really trying to get himself in the middle of it because I feel like he feels like he serves no other purpose there. Yeah. You know, speaking of Lee, you brought him up. We have to talk about him. You know, we want to stay away from bad-mouthing people during this podcast. That's not something we want to do.

But The Bachelor and Bachelorette just seemed to offer us that opportunity all the time. I was like, bad. We can't be that good. So we have Lee here, right? We talked about him a little bit last week. I was hoping this week he redeems himself. If anything, I believe he got worse. Oh, yeah.

And as I said last week, I'm having a hard time I actually watching this show. And I admitted I'm becoming a fan because of him. I'm getting angry and I'm feeling things inside of myself that I, that aren't healthy to feel like anger and frustration and anxiety. Actually, you're feeling the same thing? Yes. And, you know,

I was listening to our other podcast yesterday and you were saying that that's a trait that both of us don't really have. Like, I feel a lot of feelings. People know this. But I never really feel anger. And this man, Lee,

brings it out in me. He does. And it's not healthy. It's not good. I hope Rachel figures it out. So far, you know, just starting to now,

she's seeing the signs it looks like that hey this Lee guy seems to have some issues or you know this this league guy isn't exactly the type of person that I am going to be with long term the problem in these situations that happen with the Bachelor of Bachelorette is when a guy like that comes into play it oftentimes

hurts another suitor and you can see it starting to happen with Kenny right Kenny is starting to be pulled into this and he's a nice guy and I think he's just getting lost in the moment where he doesn't know how to handle this Lee situation. He targeted

Eric last week and now he's going after sweetheart Kenny and you know what my favorite thing was was when Kenny looked at Lee and he goes Lee you're a little bitch it was so good it's bleeped out of course

is it bleeped out but it's great it is bleeped out as it should be this is family television as we heard from Mike earlier 14 year old girls are listening to this So there's the storylines that play out for Ashley and I, right? So we have Lee, who we hope, goes.

We don't really want them around. It's not, we're not going to miss them at all. We have Josiah, who continues to talk in third person. And we believe that Dean is on his way to the very, very top. And you guys out there better start getting used to Dean. He's going to be around a while. Oh, yeah, Bachelor material there. This is the Ben and Ashley I.

almost famous podcast with iHeartRadio we have delane on the line from ottawa canada hey delane what's your question hi okay so i always tell people how much i love the bachelor franchise and how i'd love to be a part of it but i always get such a negative response so i just wanted to know why you guys think that the process is actually genuine and that finding true love in this type environment is possible well for me it's been so cool because both of my paradise seasons i have seen my friends get engaged at the end of it, and then get to, like, be so close to them and see their love grow outside the franchise. So because I have four friends that it really worked for, it's very easy for me to believe that the process works. Yeah, of course.

You know, I think it hasn't. Sorry. Go ahead, Ben. No, you know, I was just going to say, and I think Ashley's right, I definitely think it can work. I've always said that when it comes to these shows, it's not going to work every time, and nobody should expect that. And that's kind of the beauty of it, right? We're following a journey.

We're following a story. We're not finding, it's not dating in a vacuum. You're not automatically going to end up with somebody in the end. You know, I found love on The Bachelor. I did. I truly loved Lauren, and that won't change, right? That was a huge part of my life. Now, I know what that feeling was like for me, and I know that I've talked to people that have felt

that same thing. Now, in my case, obviously, Lauren and I are no longer together, but it doesn't change the fact that I really loved her and loved her, and she really loved me. And that's a beautiful thing to exist from a television show. Now, I want

to clarify one thing, and I think this is a common, you know, when I sent up for The Bachelor, people were very judgmental to me. And my response was always this. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't even know if I'm going on to this show to find love. I'm going on to see what happens and stay open to the idea that love could exist within this process. I think that is a very important way to look at it, especially for future contestants,

is not that, hey, I'm going to definitely fall in love on this show, and I'm going to work really hard to make sure I fall in love on this show. That's not healthy. That's not okay. That's just abnormal. This is why I say the wrong reasons is such BS. It's like, no, you're supposed to go into it and say, hey, like, I might like someone. and I may have some really cool experiences.

And if I find my spouse along the way, then holy damn, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're open to it, you can find love on this show. But, I mean, if we're honest with each other, right, you can find love anywhere. And that's the beautiful thing about love to me is that it can exist anywhere at any time and you never know when it's going to happen. It's going to pop up out of nowhere or maybe it does happen on The Bachelor at Bachelor franchise. And I just have to say one more thing now that we're on the topic. I know I hate to bring it back to paradise, but there's been three seasons of paradise.

And from those three seasons, there have been two couples that are still together. And I think it's interesting because the process of paradise is different. You're basically living with them for 25 days, which is totally different from The Bachelor of the Bachelorette in which you get. I don't know, Ben, how long did you get with Lauren each week? You know, that's tough. You know, most a couple, I mean, definitely it was in the hours. It matters if it was a week on a one-on-one or a week in a group. date. I think that's why it's so important when you watch the show to realize that, you know,

one-on-ones are very, very influential in the time that you're putting into your relationship. And so, you know, one-on-ones, you're with somebody all day, group dates, you might be with them for a few hours, and then you have a cocktail party. So it isn't an exorment around a time. It's actually pretty quick. And I guess, you know, for me, I've always explained it as when I was on The Bachelor, there was a moment in time where I just knew. that Lauren was somebody special. You know, and I think I've talked to other people like Sean, who was with Caitlin, where, you know, he just knew that, you know, Caitlin was somebody special.

That can happen in life, too, right? Like, I mean, I hope that happens again for me. I hope at some point in my life I run across somebody that I just know within hours that this person is going to have an impact on my life. Yeah, I hope I can like someone off the show too. Can I just ask a separate question related to what you just said, Ben? Yeah, definitely. Okay, so I just wanted to know, is it hard to, like, go through the show and go through the process if you've already kind of figured out who the one is?

Like, if you knew that Lauren was the one? That's such a good question. Yeah, in all honesty, it's very hard. I will tell you that up front. It is, it pulls at your heart, and that's probably why you start to see so many bachelors or bacheloretts really start to get emotional at the end because you feel like your heart is being pulled in one direction, but yet you're committed to pulling it back to other relationships as well. And for me, that really started to pull on me because you want to give everybody an equal amount of attention and care and support. But yet at the same time, you know that there's somebody there that you just can't see yourself without.

I think during that process, though, you have committed as the bachelor or bachelor's to stay open to the end. That is your commitment to the women involved or the men and also to the show. And so you're keeping your heart open as hard as it is. And you're also – and everybody always says, well, that just seems weird. Well, yes, it's weird. The show itself is odd. I'm not going to ever say it's not, but it's also can be a great thing. The part you need to remember, too, is I'm still getting to know each person.

So as much as I might have felt about Lauren after week two, I still don't know a lot about her. And we've seen it in this show many times where, you know, week eight, you know, right when it's getting down to the end, it's the final four, and the Bachelor or Bachelor, all of a sudden, finds out something about the person that they care so much about, and it changes everything. It changes the whole relationship. It changes the whole dynamic. And in my mind, I didn't want to close myself off until the very end, where I knew for certain that the person I thought Lauren was from week two was the person that I was going to be. asking to marry me at the end. Now, obviously, like, you know, that isn't the case today. You know, she's still that person, but we aren't together today. But, you know, who I knew at week two with Lauren was still the person I know today. That never changed.

Yeah. Ben, you're so perfect. Both you and I at the same time. Well, you know, and I think, I think it is important, you know, as a viewer, I get, you know, have a chance as a contestant to explain this situation always. You know, people jump to conclusions often and you get a lot of judgment for the show itself. But when the show is done well, when the experience is participated in by somebody who really is open to the process, which is what you've committed to, which is what you've chosen and turned to, then these kind of things make more sense. That's why the show is so fun for me to watch now. I know what Rachel's feeling. I know

that she probably has a really big crush on somebody, or she feels like somebody's right for her. And what I'm interested in now is, is that going to play out to the end? Is that going to still last until the moment that we see them, you know, a lot on the live show together, smiling and hopefully walking off the stage to the real life world that they're going to be entering into as partners? And girl, if you want to do the show, go and apply because even if you don't find the love of your life, it's a great growing experience. I'm so serious. Like my prom award in high school was most likely to be the bachelor's. So I was like, you all know me so well.

That's so funny. That's great. Well, Delane, thank you for calling from Canada. I need you to know that Ash and I really appreciate your questions and your call-ins and just you reaching out to us and also listening to the Almost Famous Podcast. We appreciate it. Oh, well, thanks so much for having me, guys. Bye. Bye.

So, Ashley, outside of The Bachelor and Bachelorette, there's a lot going on in life right now, right? There's some major stories that exist out there in the pop culture realm that we need to touch on. One, we need to touch on because selfishly, I have a story for you that I don't know if I should be excited to share or not. If you're a question, it's good. It's good. You know, it's good because it's something that I get made fun of a lot for or gets brought up a lot. You're dancing? Wow, no, but now I know how I should feel about my dancing.

Lauren and I once had a discussion She said that the only time that I'm unattracted to Jared And that she's unattracted to you Is when you're white boy dancing I mean if anything I feel like that's when you should be attracted to the most Because Jared and I We got moved

There's a story out there From a former playboy playmate named Danny Mathers Danny Mathers Took a picture in a locker room of a 70-year-old woman who was changing, right? She snapped out of this picture, and she had some quote with the picture like, I can't unsee this, then you can't unsee it. She was trying to show it to the public, right?

Well, this happened in 2016, and it has caught a ton of press here recently because the suit that was filed against Danny is closing, right? So now Danny filed no contest to the misdemeanor account of invasion and privacy, and now she will be sentenced to three years' probation and 30 days of community service. So as I read this story, I first obviously felt compelled to really get angry at Danny, right? But as I read through an Us weekly article here that interviews Danny, she says that over the last year she's realized how horrible her decision was and how she's so sorry for the picture that she took and for the embarrassment that she caused this seven-year-old woman who is really, as we both know,

a locker room is a place of privacy, a place of what should be safety, a place where we can all shower, change, clean up for the day after a workout. And Danny says she's really sorry about it. And so I can't sit here today. I'm not saying this to judge Danny at all. You know, she has been punished. She has apologized. I believe that forgiveness has been given to her through the 70-year-old woman, and as a public person who really doesn't matter at all on this, I forgive Danny as well. But this brings up my most embarrassing Jim story.

You're ready for it? Yeah. Okay. So I work out at lunch up here in Evergreen, Colorado at the Evergreen Rec Center. The Evergreen Rec Center is this beautiful rec center in the mountains, and it is a beautiful facility that has a beautiful locker room with a single. with a sauna and shower and everything involved, right? Well, so, and I'm just going to, I'm just going to be as honest as possible here. I'm not going to hold anything back.

If you don't want to hear it from here and out, this is probably going to be rated, you know, PG-13. When you're in a lot- PG-13 very often. When you're in a locker room, okay, what are you doing? You're changing or you're showering. And so to change and shower, there's one step in there that includes you getting naked, okay? Now, oftentimes when you're in a locker, it shouldn't be, you know, awkward. It's weird.

It feels weird. There's a bunch of different people of all different ages, of all different places. But unfortunately for me, this rec center is right next to my work. And so there's a lot of people from my office that also participate in this rec center and also change and shower to go back to work. Okay. So I usually work out with one of my best friends who I work with, who also is my boss. Well, you know, him and I are from the same hometown of Warsaw.

We lift, we run, whatever, and then we'll shower off, get changed, and come up here. Don't think twice about it. Well, this one day, just a few months ago, just a few months ago, I am talking to my boss and backing up, okay? I want you to get a picture here. The locker room sits there, and behind me is a shower, right? Okay? Okay. So I am talking to him walking backwards to get into the shower. Well, as I turn around, and just I need to add a point in here. In the shower, when I was talking to my boss, there's another man that I work with who is an engineer for our company who I don't know very well, who's a very nice, quiet, young, or older man, but I don't talk to. I say hi. I know him, but I don't know him personally at all, right? But I do work with him. him okay I see him every day yeah so as I'm backing up I turn around to walk into the shower

and just as I lift my head up from turning around this poor older man and I collide front to front making making making a sound like if you can you do me a fair right now actually can you just give me a light little clap into the mic a little louder maybe yeah yeah you know That's the sound it made for everybody in the locker room, including my friend. To witness. And so my point. Everyone back at the office. Yes.

So here's my point to the story. Here's how I'm tying it back into Danny Mathers. Everybody at the office had end up hearing about this story where the locker room no longer became a place of privacy and safety, but it became a place to tell a story from. And so, please, here's our public. service announcement today to everybody listening, keep the locker room safe. I've never been naked in a locker room in my life. That is a topic for next week.

We'll start the episode by talking about why and where that comes from. But for this week, this has been the almost famous podcast. I've been Ben. And I've been Ashley. Thank you for joining us. Bye. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.