The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - S3 #2 Being Single Kinda Sucks

Episode Date: September 28, 2017

Bachelor Nick Viall joins Ben and Ashley and opens up about how he's doing after his breakup.  Plus Ben and Ashley do a deep dive on the listener emails and head to the phones to take your calls! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. Hey, welcome back. I'm Ben. And I'm Ashley. And this is the Almost Famous Podcast. We have a really big episode for you all this week. I mean, this is huge. And I guess I want to start out. There's been some things weighing on Ashley and I this week.

And so, Ashley, I just want to give you a little time here to speak on it. Yeah, so we did an interview last week. For the first time in our four months of doing this podcast, we got a lot of strong, sometimes harsh, sometimes mad and upset comments at us. They weren't all an email form. Some of them were on forums. And we were just a little confused. We know we were tough in this particular interview, but we really wanted to come off as a

discussion. I really just thought I was putting my opinions out there. I think Amy and Ben felt the same way. I didn't personally feel like I was being mean. or a bully. I certainly don't think I was being a bully. I think in this very sensitive culture we live in today, people sometimes jump and accuse a conversation or an adult argument as bullying, but really it's just an argument and it's a disagreement, but it doesn't mean that there's any ill will in it. So we asked tough questions. We presented, I felt like, all sides,

but let me know if you do think that we were really too swayed. I really do feel like I defended and disagreed with the person at the same time. And I like to think of myself, I know like some of you may call me out on this and you're going to be like, Ashley, that's a ridiculous. You have a podcast talking about The Bachelor. But I think of myself as a journalist. I have my master's in it. Like this is what I was trained to do.

So when I go into an interview with somebody, I'm not going to be afraid to ask what I think the listeners want me to ask. ask, like sometimes the scary questions because that's what makes an interesting conversation. We don't always want to be fluffy and lighthearted. We want to do that most of the time. Like, my job is to, like, make you guys smile. I think that Ben and I feel like you want to come to the almost train house podcast to get some dirt to get some gossip, hear about your favorite show and the people involved with it, but I don't think you need, like, a whole lot of aggression. And I don't think we intended to do that last week. But I just want you to know that when we, we,

asked those tough questions, I was thinking of myself as a journalist, and I hope it didn't come across to too many people like it was hostile. There was a campaign that was started this week to go on our iTunes page and to give the almost famous podcast bad reviews because of this discussion argument. I don't think it was bullying, and I'm going to stay strong to that. I definitely don't think this is bullying. I think if you want to, point out something in the bachelor community that was bullying. I think calling scallop, a girl's scallop fingers behind her face, you know, behind her back was probably more bullying.

That was like with malintent. That was making fun of someone in ill will. I think this was just an adult conversation and some people wished we felt differently. Anyway, so if you like our podcast or if you don't like our podcast, But if you like it and you want us to continue, and we really want to continue, but if it's not fun anymore, there's going to be less intent, like, there's going to be less incentive for us to want to continue. So we would love to read all of your reviews on our iTunes page. So please go, give us some stars, give us some written reviews. We appreciate all your thoughts. And don't forget that if you do have like a big opinion you want to share with us, it is. Ben and Ashley at iHeartMedia.com and show us the love if you have it for us. Yeah, so to kind of piggyback on what Ashley was saying, I guess personally, just after

last week's episode it does, and I think Ashley just said, it kind of sucked a fun out of this. And I'm totally in agreement with some of the points raised that this podcast should never be about bringing somebody down or putting somebody down or making somebody feel less than. But that's not what I want to do this for, honestly. It would be the last thing. And I do think last week in that interview, we got closer to that than we ever have. And I think Ashley and I have both learned a lesson to continue to hopefully pick people up to talk about these scenarios that are happening in The Bachelor because, let's be honest,

a lot of them are funny and a lot of them, hopefully we can all make fun of ourselves and we can be self-deprecating. and, you know, we've gone on TV to date, and at some level that's just humorous, but we never want to personally hurt anybody, and somebody was obviously personally hurt after coming on our show. And I want to just apologize, even if we believe that we said everything that we wanted to say, and we were trying to just share the story and to get to the bottom of what this whole Instagram post is about, I do want to apologize on behalf of this podcast that we

hurt somebody. That's not what we want to do, and we're not going to do it from here and out. And so as we move forward to anybody out there that was contacted to put a negative comment on Reddit or anybody was contacted to put a negative comment on our social media, it hurt, and it hurts pretty bad. But. Ben and I were really stressed out about it all week. And we both listened back to the podcast because we were getting some heat and we were just a little bit confused because we knew it was a harsher, like it was more serious tone podcast than usual. But we both were kind of out of loss as to what all this bullying, all the bullying accusations were about.

So we both went back and listened to it. And I honestly am very confused where we're getting such harsh backlash. I can understand you saying like, oh, I didn't like your tone there. Or like, who, wow, you really feel strongly on that side. But I don't know where you're getting the bullying from. It's like, would you call Barbara Walters, Megan Kelly, Diane Sawyer? Would you call them bully? in the middle of an interview?

Or use Chris Harrison as an example because he's in the Bachelor world. I guess so. He has really tough questions on the, you know, after the final rose and all those things. And he's not being a bully. He's just asking the questions that the listeners want.

So I don't want you guys to be afraid to say what you think. That's what this show's about. And also for the people listening, they wrote us emails to talk about this topic more than we've gotten on any other topic. So, you know, I don't want you guys to be to censor yourselves too much.

I think what is really good about you guys is how you present such a fair perspective. Yeah, just, I mean, no matter what happened, no matter if what we said was right or wrong or that is not the issue that's indifferent, right? I want to apologize for hurting somebody. I want to believe that Danielle was actually hurt by the, I mean, if she's going to come out in public and say she was hurt by this, then she was hurt. And I want to address that and say, I'm sorry. Like, I didn't mean to hurt her. And even if we didn't mean to, and even if we still feel like the things we said weren't as harsh as what maybe are being communicated, we still hurt somebody. And so we want to apologize to her that wasn't our intent.

That's not how we feel about her as a person. It's not what we think about her as a person. It's not what we want others to think about her as a person. We don't want anybody to feel negative by coming on this show. And so if that's the end of this, if, you know, if she wants to talk to us personally, we have reached out to her. off of this just to just to talk with her and tell her hey you know what at the end of the day daniel like i was more confused by the post because i thought it was saying she wasn't beautiful and i think she's gorgeous and so that's maybe why i came in condescending because i i just didn't

know the post um but at the end of the day somebody was hurt that's what we want and it's not what we're going to have happened from here on now and so with that let's move into some of these emails that we receive this week uh asking us to talk about this because we did you know we talked about with Danielle on the last week's episode because we did get a lot of emails sent in to us asking, hey, what's up with this post or her and Dean still dating, you know, what's going on with this? So we talked about it. And this week, we had some follow-up emails. Ashley, you want to run through those?

Yeah, I just want to elaborate when he said, what Ben said. If we, whatever we did to offend anyone out there, we do want to know specifically what that is so that we can be better and we could never act that way again. All right. So this email is from Sarah. She says, hi, guys. I think you guys were a little bit hard on Danielle L for her caption about feeling like her beauty has hurt her reputation. During the whole conversation, I thought back to the movie Legally Blonde, which is a cinematic masterpiece.

And I do completely agree with you, Sarah. It has inspired me in so many ways. I almost went to law school because of L. Woods. I think what Danielle L. was trying to make a point of was that she was very sexualized on Paradise. and she never was edited to have any depth or even a brain. I'm happy you guys got her on to listen to her side, but I felt like I could really explain what she meant in more detail, and hopefully you guys will bring up this issue next week.

Overall, huge fan of the show, but I need you guys to understand how deep of an issue this really is, and it affects multiple women. Okay, well, I wish we had Sarah's number so we could call her. We can try emailing her. All right, now this is from Brianna. Brianna says, hi, Ben and Ashley. I do not understand why hundreds of people seem to be so outraged over last week's episode.

You guys simply stayed your opinion on the Delo Dean situation. This is your podcast and you should be allowed to give your opinions and speak your mind. Please do not apologize. You should never have to apologize for sharing your opinion on your podcast. And I agree with you, Brianna. To the listeners, I think that you all should take a chill pill. It is okay to hear opinions that differ from your own. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Brianna. This is a part of growing up. up. In fact, you should want to live in a world where you are surrounded by different opinions and different perspectives. A life would be boring if we were all living in an echo chamber. Ben and Ashley, I love this podcast because you share unfiltered conversations with us and you do give us an insider's perspective on things. Please don't change. That's why I continue to listen. Love you guys, Brianna. Thank you, Brianna.

Interviews aren't meant to just be sucking up to the other person. It's just like to get information and to get a different person's perspective and thoughts on a certain matter. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't disagree with you. I definitely don't want to have a podcast. I just don't want to live a life where I agree with everybody and everything. I don't think that helps us progress forward.

I don't think it helps me as a person and I don't think it helps out my relationships around me. But again, I just go back to if somebody was hurt and when somebody expresses me that I have hurt them, I don't want to look at them and say, no, I did. it. You know, that's not true. I said everything I should have said. I don't want to be that person. So I say that if you, if I hurt you by something I did, then I need to take that in. I need to let that sink in. I need to see what I did wrong and hear what I did wrong and feel it because I don't want to live a life of hurting somebody either. So that's

my lesson. You know, I'm getting new. I'm new to this thing. Like I'm four months into this podcast. I'm not used to talking for a living. I'm used to talking a lot and talking to anybody to listen, but I'm not used to talking for a living, and when there's a controversial situation that's brought up, or there's a lot of questions that listeners are sending into us about a topic that they're fired up about, I guess I need to get better at communicating the story and then asking those questions to not add my perspective and add my opinion, but to get the real, to get to the conclusion. And so I'm listening, I'm hearing all this stuff this week, and I'm hearing the comments

made that, you know, I should have stood up and I'm not the person I say him. And that things really hurt. But I guess I can only agree to try to get better. All right. We're going to move on now. Let's put this in the past. Today, we have our good friend Nick Viola on. He'll be in studio any minute now. And we also are opening the phones so we can talk about anything you guys want, including last week's controversial interview. Call in at 833, Ben, B, N, and

that is an N. Oh, you guys, let me not read the initials. It is 833-23-236-6-2-7-4. But first, Ben, I know that you want to be able to see Nick as clearly as possible. Oh, Ashley. Yeah, I do. And I, and I, and He's a beautiful human, great looking, better spoken. So let's see how he does in this podcast. But I want to talk to you about a sponsor of ours, Hubble.

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Hubble is offering our listeners two weeks of free contacts. So go to Hubblecontacts.com and get 2020 vision for half the price. That's Hubble, H-U-B-B-B-L-E contacts.com. Hey, Nick, thank you for joining the Almost Famous Podcast. You came in on the perfect day. I appreciate you stepping in here. I know that your life is incredibly busy. So please catch us up. What are you up to today? How are you doing? And how is life? Well, thank you, first of all, for having me, Ben. I wish you were here in the studio. And Ashley. And Ashley. Yes. I get to see you more than I get to see you, Ben. It's true. You know? Yeah. Is this a three-part question? Yeah, it's going to be. The first part of the question is, how you do it?

I'm hanging in, you know, I'm fine. You've been doing a lot of traveling. Oh, keeping tabs? Always. I mean, you're in Dallas. I was in Dallas visiting a good friend of mine who recently moved there for work, and I haven't had a chance to see him. So I just went there and had a lonely guy's weekend.

It's just to him and I. Aw, you went to Charlene's wedding, and Chris Souls was there. I went to Charlene's wedding. It was lovely. I love very deeply both Charlene and her husband and. to the greatest people ever, and it was really great to be able to celebrate that ceremony with them, and it was a lovely wedding.

Nick, you've been, obviously, traveling a lot. We get that. So I can relate with you in a lot of ways right now, right? So you're not talking to somebody that hasn't been there, but how are you, I mean, I know you say you're doing good, but outside of the relationship, because I know that's not always the most fun thing to talk about, and if you want to bring it up, that's great.

If not, just how are you holding up? Has it been a tough little season of life? Do you feel like it needed to happen? Coming out of this as a man, where are you at? I mean, I don't know if I felt like it needed to happen, but, you know, it kind of is what it is. Yeah, I know you kind of, we talked kind of briefly offline about when, you know, both of us kind of went through this experience. I mean, it's like never fun, right? I mean, I don't know.

Being single kind of sucks. But, you know, what can you do? And so, you know, I've always been the internal optimist of pushing forward. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm fine. What can you do? I mean, I think that's the right way to look at it. It's not always the easiest way to look at it.

I think I remember looking back and saying kind of saying the same thing is, you know, this happened. If I wanted to happen, if I didn't want to happen, no matter what it happened. And so now I look at life and I say, what is it from here and out? and there's nothing I can do but look forward. I can't look back because if I look back, it just kind of keeps me standing still. I mean, yeah. I mean, I think every relationship,

I mean, everyone outside of this interesting world that we've all been a part of, you know, every relationship, it can be, you know, obviously relationships can be great and lovely and amazing, and if they don't work out, you just kind of have to get through it. I guess, you know, there's two great things that I've, as I've gotten older, I've learned to try to appreciate in life, and that is having perspective and, you know, understanding that, like, all things kind of are relative. You know, like, you know, when things happen to, you know, us as individuals, it feels like a big deal and it can be kind of self-indulgent.

And I think the more you experience life, whether it's something that works out or it doesn't, you get greater perspective. from it. And so I think that's all you can do is try to learn from each experience. And, you know, I think in these times it's kind of very easy to, you know, get down to yourself or let your insecurities kind of pop up and try to, you know, get down to yourself. But you try to then reflect back on, you know, your experiences before and try to have some perspective about it. And the more experiences you have, and I've certainly had a few, you can, you know, try to use that to move forward and um you know just go from there i i remember uh during being in that same kind of time of life that you're sitting in right now and you know you get a lot of opinions

and uh you know you get a lot of accusations on what happened or who failed and um or what failed in it and it you know it hurts you know anytime people express those like really deep seated and like they kind of bring out your insecurities um it stinks especially in a time where your heart is already like very raw and open and kind of broken. And so I can do, I can feel, I can relate with you in that, I guess. But one thing, and I want to know if you feel the same way, and I don't want to speak for you. But the one thing I learned, or I guess as I've looked back on it, as my heart was broken during that time and as I was very open emotionally, I learned so much more about myself.

And so now I can look back and say, hey, yeah, yeah, this situation was not ideal, the way it turned out. It wasn't what I was hoping for, but I've learned so much more about myself coming out of of it. I mean, yeah, I mean, kind of what I just, you know, mentioned before. And that's kind of getting, you know, getting that perspective, you know, when you experience something, you know, whether it's good or bad, it's, again, it's always important to reflect. And then hopefully you do learn something about yourself or just life or situations. And yeah, I mean, that's kind of, you know, obviously, Ben, you know a lot about this. And, you know, even Ashley, like, whether

it's, you know, you know, from a relationship standpoint, obviously we've chosen to be a part of this world and we open ourselves up to criticism sometimes. I mean, I caught the tail end of your last segment. And, you know, sometimes I get surprised with people who are so quick to, you know, share their thoughts, but unwilling to get criticism. Um, you know, and I think we have to accept that as people who have chosen to be a part of this. And it's never fun. Um, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And having said that, obviously, when you, it's a weird experience, you know, when two people are, you know, kind of at their lowest and trying to make the right decisions for each other and as individuals to even have to consider, you know, what people might say or what people might assume. And we just kind of chosen to try to keep that as private as possible, you know, which sometimes, you know, sucks because, you know, obviously. if people will always assume certain things that they want or whatever, but, you know, what are you going to do? You know, I'm always thankful for my time. I have no regrets. And, you know, it was just one of those things that, you know, you hoped it worked out. But, you know, I think when you get asked to be the bachelor, I mean, I know when I got asked, I mean, my first thought was I was kind of sick to my stomach because of the pressure of working out and not working out.

You know, every situation is different, but I'm sure every lead to a certain extent feels those emotions. You know, for myself, I was certainly self-aware of the fact that the number of attempts on this show would be emphasized, you know, to the point where, you know, four times a charm. And I kind of guessed that would be some sort of theme and, you know, something I had to accept. And so you don't, you know, you don't know what's going to happen. And you don't know the women who will get out of the limo and as great as they might be. You don't know if any of them will be compatible for you, if there will be any connections. And I think your greatest fear is it not working out. And, you know, for me, that was a big fear of mine, a big weight on my shoulders and something that I really experienced all the way through.

And, you know, for those who may or may not remember, you know, my season, you know, my first one-on-one date with Vanessa was, you know, I got emotional really early. kind of like, why is he getting emotional? And then for me, it was, you know, obviously I had such a great day with Vanessa that day, but I finally felt a lot of relief in that moment that it could work out. And, you know,

whether it was, you know, Vanessa and I had a pretty good idea that it might be at that point because I had such a great day, you know, you just feel that huge relief. And so you still don't know. And obviously, there's a lot that come even after the show's done filming, as we all know.

And, yeah, I'll always be very, incredibly envious for those who have been a part of this world and been able to have a successful relationship. I'm very, very envious of those people. And, you know, unfortunately, I wasn't one of them. And what are you going to do? And I mean, you said it best, like, that is a huge fear. I remember thinking the same thing as it started. I remember on my first one on one day with Lauren that emotion did come over me as well. I remember when I used to tell people when I first knew that she was somebody special, it is a relief because I remember being so nervous as as when I was pulled up that everybody was going to be crazy and that I was going to be stuck

at the end of this questioning myself even more. So I think, I mean, I'm grateful for the experience I had and for the people that I met during it. I want to ask you, do you ever really, do you ever regret, not regret, because I know you are somebody doesn't regret a lot and you learn from a lot. Are you happy that you did The Bachelor? I mean, if I have to get a yes-no answer, of course. Yeah, I'm happy. I don't particularly, I mean, love those types of questions because there's so many variables that go into it. But I am not someone who is ever going to regret anything I do.

Because I am someone who's such a big believer in perspective and you only get perspective through experiencing life. and that doesn't mean all those experiences end up being the outcome that you want. And obviously this experience has given me a lot of perspective and taught me about myself. That's not to say that it hasn't, you know, like at this point in my life, you know, there's a lot of unknowns, you know, and certainly not, I didn't necessarily expect to be in the position that I am, you know, from a personal standpoint relationship-wise, but I also still have a lot to be thankful for and I'm very thankful for what I've gained from it and I've gained certainly still a lot of great relationships with friends

and I still was able to have some incredible experiences and memories with Vanessa that I'll always cherish. But it's not to say that I don't have like, you know, insecurities and kind of things that where do I go from here in my life and, you know, the show itself, I think, can kind of leave you sometimes a little scarred in terms of... You know, from a dating standpoint, I don't know if you guys are talking, like, what are you some of your biggest insecurities about dating? Are we all single?

I was just going to say. I remember when Lauren and Ben broke up and he was talking about how daunting just jumping back into dating would be. And the fact that, like, all three of us. Fairly terrifying. Right. All of us are just like such lovers. Like, we're not somebody who's like, if we don't get married, not a big deal. Like, all of us, like, want to be with someone. You know, we are romantics. Yeah, I mean, you know, as I got older, you know, growing up in my early 20s and like having the parents that I had and who got married in early 20s and, you know, I always wanted to emulate that. As I got older and, you know, I hadn't settled down yet. I learned the value of trying to appreciate where it was in life. So if I was in a relationship, great. If I wasn't, you know, I didn't want to jump in a relationship just to have someone to chill with on Sundays, so to speak, you know.

and I think there's a lot of value and being comfortable with being with yourself, right? I don't think you really can give yourself fully to someone unless you're comfortable with being alone, you know? And, you know, but at this point, you know, you know, having all said that, it would have been nice to have someone in my life that, you know, I can, that I know there's a future with, so to speak.

And yeah, I think coming out of this world, you know i don't know how how ben feels about this but um you kind of don't know what what it's like i mean i'm nowhere close to dating at this point no of course not you you don't know what that looks like right um it's just weird when you think like oh i in my mind i was going to be with this person forever and now all those like sort of fantasies are crushed and now i have to start all over again in this process yeah i mean there's that that's the obvious one there's I mean like I'll

I suppose when it comes to for me if I'm being totally you know candid for you guys friends of show I suppose my greatest insecurity comes to dating is you know it's not the ability to like meet women or you know

there's a lot of wonderful beautiful great women out there it's just my I think my biggest insecurity is that the The women or, say, woman that I might find myself to be interested in, I'll have the insecurity that I won't get the opportunity to get to know them. Out of fear of kind of being prejudged about my experiences,

I've been so willing to kind of put out there over the past few years. Like, I've never doubted my confidence in my ability if I get an opportunity to talk to someone to having to get to know me. But my fear is insecurities that I might be prejudged about, you know, like, here's this guy who's like, dude, how many times you go on this show? And, like, you know, it's the perception that I might have a lot of baggage or something like that. And I don't personally think I do. I mean, it's not to say I don't have things, but like I guess I just have some insecurities that I feel like the person I'll be interested in might not be interested in me.

Whoever that is, I don't know. And how will I be able to overcome that or will I even get the opportunity, you know? And so, I don't know. I don't know if that makes any sense. No, that's very honest. And I think for me, I sort of relate, I think we've talked about this in the podcast before because the whole virginity topic is out there,

I feel like I won't get to know certain people that I want to get to know because they won't consider me an option because of that thing. I come a long way. You're still a virgin? I haven't asked you in a while. I'm not, that's a serious question.

I don't know. I don't keep tabs every day. I saw you literally like, well, I guess it was like five weeks ago, which is actually insane. But despite that, I don't ask you about your sexual life. every time waiting out.

He's probably asked me five weeks ago. Although I feel like... You'll be one of the first people to know. I feel like if it ever happens, it'll probably just be obvious. You think I'll just eluded. Yeah, it'll be like that 500 days of summer. Yeah. The world will stop for a little bit.

It'll be beautiful. Oh, my goodness. She'll just be this badass boss lady. We'll have so much newly developed swag. I want you to answer this as you feel comfortable. But can you talk? to us a little bit and even to trade it relate with the listeners out there for people have gone through breakups what happened and how do you handle a breakup well moving on moving

forward well I mean as far as what happened I'm going to keep that between you know mess and I just respect for her you know what you know all I can say is kind of what it's already been out there is that and I know I know Ben you and I have had this conversation is that I think those heartbreaking thing about it I think that we both feel is just knowing how much we both really tried and the efforts we put into it and I think it's easy to ask yourself a lot of questions about certain things and just maybe accepting that it just wasn't going to work but I know we both really tried and that's sometimes it's heartbreaking in it in it of itself as to have so much love and respect for each other

and just unable to find that, you know, that, that, whatever you want to call it, that ability to just make it work. And so, you know, where you go from here, you know, you just keep going. You just wake up, get out of bed, you know. Oh, I know that feeling. It's the worst feeling. Like, that waking up after, like, heartbreak, isn't the waking up part the worst? Right?

I mean, those emotions when you get like when, you know, like that anxiety you feel. Yeah. And then like you sometimes you go to bed out of pure exhaustion. Yeah. You wake up and your body just fills up with anxiety. It legit fills up overnight and then you get through the day, but then you wake up again and you just have to let it drain out again. Yeah. I mean, again, I think the important thing for me is I just try to, I get anxiety all the time.

And I'm not even talking about like, you know, when a relationship ends. but I mean I get it like all the time most of the time and so I but I do find sometimes that when I'm most feeling the most anxiety I kind of tried I realize that sometimes I'm focusing too much on myself

I think which we all can do is to a certain and it's something like I'm trying to be selfish or whatever I'm just like I think it's very easy to like you know there's a balance between being self-reflective and just constantly thinking about yourself like where I'm in my life like if I'm going to meet someone else you know all the things that you think about when you say for example end a relationship or you know maybe it's your job or day to day and it's very easy to like you know whether you're maybe you're someone who might be strongly with money or finances or whatever it is that you know for life I always find that when I have the most anxiety I'm thinking about all these things or I'm worrying and I try to balance that with not thinking about myself so I try to like you know ask more questions of people, you know, my family, check in, maybe it's, you know, whether it's a volunteering thing or whether it's just not thinking about you, you know, because sometimes

you just need to get out of your own head, which I struggle with sometimes. And when I do that, I find that I have a little less anxiety. And I think that's important sometimes for me right now. It's just things are going to happen, you know, and no matter, no amount of worrying about it is really going to change anything. And so it's one thing to be software. It's another thing to let your insecurities kind of cripple you and have you feel up anxiety every day. And so those things I've learned over time and it's still hard to implement, but I try

to on a daily basis. It's crazy Nick listening to you. I mean, you've always been, and I don't just mean this to pump you up a bit, but you have been a man that is so thoughtful. and you are very self, you know, self-aware. So you do get into your own head a lot. You live in your own head a lot. And that allows you then to communicate your thoughts very easily and clearly.

And I'm listening to you and I'm like, oh, man, that's exactly how I felt. Or, oh, he's speaking. You know, I just want to be like, I can relate. I can relate. I felt that way. I felt that way. I've been there as you talk. But the truth of it is, it's just not ideal.

And you do have to move forward. And I think as I'm listening to you, I'm like, just thinking I'm, just thinking back on my experiences, and one of the hardest parts, and I don't know if you felt this way at all is, you live in this world right after the show and during the show with somebody that you really care about and that you fall in love with, and you have some of the best memories that you know you'll probably have for the rest of your life. You do some of the coolest experiences, you meet some of the best people with this person by your side, and then that ends, and then life is kind of wide open, and you no longer have

that person by your side, and you're doing all these experiences now alone, and without somebody there to share them with, and without somebody there to build a life with. And for me, personally, that's the moment my insecurities really started to rise because I thought once again, hey, you know what, I'm going to keep doing this. Like, I've got to get really comfortable being alone because this is my life. This is who I'm going to be. And it sounds like you're at a place right now where, I guess, what I'm trying to get to is, are you moving forward or are you still just trying to figure it out? I guess neither. I mean, always forward, I suppose.

I mean I'm always going to try to move forward but like right now I'm just kind of a point in my life where you know it's still relatively recent so I'm not trying to force it right you just kind of have to let it happen I get what you're saying like I'm not I've spent like to your

when we sort of open I've spent a lot of my time recently like you know I went home to Chicago to do my fantasy football draft with my hometown friends and I went back to Milwaukee and hung out with my family Then I came back here for a little bit. Then I went to New York for a wedding and saw some friends there. And then I went to Dallas to just visit a buddy, right? And so it's been a lot of that.

I've gone out to the, you know, to the bars or whatever a few times in those moments. And that's a struggle just because, you know, it's, you don't know how to, for me, I guess I suppose I don't know how to handle myself. Sometimes, I don't know how you feel. felt Ben but sometimes there's a level of paranoia of you know everyone's got a camera phone you just kind of want to hang out with your friends but you know obviously some people might ask to take a picture so you want to be polite but you don't want to give off the you don't want to give the wrong impression um and so sometimes um i getting you know i've gotten anxiety about that so i've

just tried to lay low a little bit you know so i haven't really got to the moment i haven't experienced a ton of things i mean you obviously going to the wedding um was you know weird in a sense because I went by myself. But it was also, I was so happy for Charlene and Andy and just so excited about their relationship that I saw a lot of fun. And again, talking about, you know, what helps is like, you know, that particular day, it would have been easy for me to have been like, I'm on a wedding by myself.

That sucks. I was just more excited for Andy and Charlene and focused on why I was there. and that day wasn't about me, it was about them. And, you know, that helped. And I had a lot of fun just being able to share that experience with them. And so it's just little things like that that helped me deal with some of those things. But yeah, certainly, like, as you go out, there's always going to be moments where it's just like, well, that would have been really nice to share this with someone. But, you know, what can you do?

I think you take everyone who goes in this world takes risk. Obviously, if you're the bachelor of the bachelor, the bachelor's a little bit bigger of a risk in terms of how much you commit to the possibility of really trying to find that person and being so emotionally open and willing to take a huge leap of faith. And that's not fun to try to accept that it didn't work out. And that's like what I said before. It's just like I get very jealous and envious sometimes when I, you know, social media, I mean, you see other couples who, um, who have been lucky enough to, to, to have it work out, um, you know, and so, there's always going to be criticisms about, like, you know, why you did it or if you did really tried or if you took it seriously.

That's something I take very personal in terms of, you know, but I, you can't react. I mean, you always see comments, sometimes even from people in the franchise, um, who have been lucky enough for it to work. It's sometimes disappointing to, um, sometimes imply, um, being, um, you always see, um, because they've been so lucky they might be more sincere, but, you know, what can you do? You know, like, for example, I knew a little bit about your relationship with Lauren, Ben.

And again, and we talked about this, the one thing I always knew from you is that how much you focus on that relationship, how much you tried. Did you guys make every decision that was right for the relationship? I don't know. You know, no one never does. But sometimes it's a little, it hurts a little bit or sometimes a little frustrating for sometimes people to make those comments,

but what can you do? Vanessa and I both know how hard we worked on our relationship and how much we focused on it and how much we still mean to each other and I think those are the things that we really focus on. Yeah, I mean, you're right.

It's crazy how when I was with Lauren, I was almost like this invincible force. People could say whatever and the heck they wanted to say about me and I would just continue to plug forward and it never really sat in. I don't know, it was this weird transition for me.

So when I was with here in a relationship, it was kind of like people could just spout negativity. They could give criticism. They could say whatever they thought about me of being The Bachelor. You know, they should have picked this guy or whatever, whatever they wanted to say that was negative. And I just kept moving forward because life was good. And then as soon as that breakup happened, the comments really and the criticisms really started to sink in and sink in deep. And they still do.

They still have a huge effect on me. And I'm not quite to that place where I can just push those off yet. I don't know if I ever will be now. You don't think so? I don't know. Maybe. Like you said, Nick. I mean, I can't predict the future, and it's one step at a time, and that's the best thing I can do.

I'm a lot better today than I was maybe two months ago. I'm a lot happier today, I know it was two months ago, but it's still difficult, and I still feel raw, and there's still a lot of emotion. And I guess because Ashley and I are kind of coming off of a time in our life where we've gotten some criticism here recently, I want to ask you, how have you dealt with the criticism, not only from the franchise and being The Bachelor, but now post-relationship and just in life, like how do you view that? Well, I mean, not to be generic, but I've gotten really good at not reading stuff. Just being on the show, right? The show's been around long enough, and you have social media, that at this point, if you go on the show, you're going to get criticism, you know? Like, even if, like, even the great Ben Higgins on, you know, Caitlin season, who was an overwhelming fan favorite, you still got criticism. you know like it's no one is ever not going to get some people get more than

others in my season of Andy's I got a ton of criticism I just get surprised when when you know and obviously I won't indulge in it and like there's obviously it's always going to be a lot of behind the scenes about what happened or what didn't happen I mean I always kind of get a kick out of some of the things I read and the perceptions of like decisions I made you know and so yeah I don't know you when it comes of criticism I think the overwhelming important thing as I'm sure you guys all know is the people who are in your inner circle, whether that's your friends or your loved ones or whatever.

Those are the people whose opinions who matter and the people who really know you. And if certainly if you get if I get criticized from my friends or my family and they're like, hey, Nick, we kind of think you've been an asshole. I'm going to listen to that, right? Because those are the people who know me best, who give me feedback. But everything else, you just have to try not to let it bother you. But I get what you're saying, Ben. I mean, it's one thing to know that.

It's another thing to once in a while indulge in what's out there. And then you read something. And it just, for whatever reason, just like, eats you up. You know, it's like, ugh, like, why? You know, like it's been like a half a day and be like, but it's not true. Like, you know, but what are you going to do? And again, back to, you know, dealing with, like, insecurity and anxiety is to just try not to indulge in it, you know? and instead of, you never can convince other people.

And I think I just, you always, you just try to focus on the things that's most important, I suppose, and wondering if, you know, if you're going to have an insecurity or they're going to say something, like, you know, maybe just admit that it's an insecurity, you know? Like, sometimes I think the things that bother us the most are the things that, you know, deep down that kind of bother us about ourselves, and then we hear someone else say it,

and you're like, you're like really mad about it and you're like, oh, that does bother me about me, you know? But like people are pointing it out. So maybe just admit it and just kind of deal with it instead of like, you know, going on social media and yelling at the internet and criticizing other people. I would say that be, I'd say, you know, that's one of the worst ways to handle it,

is using social media as your platform to criticize. You know, you could read a picture I post today and there's going to be, you know, a hundred really great comments to one really negative comment that one little negative comment might stand out to me so I'm taking your advice I'm going to commit for the next week not to read anything because it never goes well for me you know Nick before we take callers here because I want to keep you on to take some callers I think it's going to be great you know you and I are both sorry to tell you and I know it still stings you and I are both now single men and there's one thing

that every single man needs we need help we need a lot of help and I have just a solution for us Okay, last night, I started using Blue Apron for the very first time. I'm not kidding you. Blue Apron is amazing, Nick. You can cook dinners that show up literally to your front door. You pull out the ingredients. You lay them on your table. There's a whole list of things you need to check off.

There's things you need to do to get the perfect dinner started. So I want to tell you, Nick, about Blue Apron. So hopefully yourself and everybody out there will purchase this because I'm telling you it's worth it. Here we go. Blue Apron is the number one fresh ingredient in recipe delivery service. in the country. Blue Apron's mission is to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone. Blue Apron achieves this by supporting a more sustainable food system, setting the highest standards for ingredients, and building a community of home chefs. I'd like to consider myself a home chef.

Blue Apron has established partnerships with 150 local farms, fisheries, and ranches across the United States. As a result, seafood is sourced sustainably under standards developed in partnerships with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch. Beef, chicken, and pork come from responsibly raised animals. Produce is sourced from farms at practice, regenerative farming. I'm telling you all this, because Blue Apron ships the exact amount of each ingredient required for a recipe, and as a result, they are reducing waste. What did you make, Ben?

Well, Amy, I'd like to tell you. Each servings for about two or three people, so last night I made steak with a side of kale, potatoes, and mushrooms. And did you have leftovers because you are alone? Wow, Amy. Thank you. And I did not have leftovers because what I've chosen to do with my life right now is to fill that void of having nobody there by eating as much food as possible.

I'm telling you, Blue Apron brings people together. Right now, I'm just trying to bring myself together. So this is going to hurt to read a little bit. But cooking together builds strong family bonds, of which I have none right now. Research shows that Blue Apron's families cook nearly three times more often. Those who spend a lot at restaurants or at high-end grocery chains can now spend under $10 per person for a delicious meal. Finally, check out this week's menu and get your first three meals for free with free shipping by going to blue apron.com slash Almost Famous. Make sure you use that.

So go to blue apron.com slash Almost Famous. You will love how good it feels and taste to create incredible home-cooked meals with Blue Apron, with your family, friends, or alone. So don't wait. That's blue apron.com slash almost famous blue apron. A better way to cook. Nick, that interview was probably one of my top three interviews we've done over the past four months. You're just beautifully vulnerable and honest and you're so insightful.

And all of that that just happened over like the past 20 minutes made me just, it reminded me how much I love you and how much I appreciate you being such a close friend in my life. I feel really mushy towards you right now. It is kind of a mushy podcast. Is it always like this or just this particular one? No, this one's particularly mushy. We went from being, quote, harsh to now being mushy. This is the perfect podcast of fall last week. I'm going to have to go back and listen to this harsh one.

I walked in and you guys are all like, I'm sorry. What are you guys sorry for? Well, we definitely like your feedback on that. You guys know from last season, Paradise 3, Nick was kind of like my love guru. He has great guy advice for me. He always, like, kicks me in the ass and, like, tries to kick me out of my fantasy land, which I like to stay in. But if you have any- Those who can't teach, you know.

Yeah, right. I know, I know. But you know men. You do know men. So I just tweeted out if you guys have any good, if you have any questions about current relationships you're in or need any guy advice, you can ask Nick those types of questions. And, in addition, of course, stuff about The Bachelor. So we're going to start taking some callers now. I see Ellen from Alabama.

She needs some advice. Let's get her on the line. Hello. Ellen. Hi, you're here with Ben, Nick, and me. Really? Yes. This is my dream.

I'm true. Hello. Hey, I see you need some advice. It's about a guy. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Sorry, I said something. I'm on my way out.

Sorry, I'm clumsy. Anyway, okay, so wait, who is here? It's Nick, Ben, and Ashley I. Like, Nick, I cannot pronounce his last name. What's the last name? Viall. I love you. I love all of y'all.

Okay, so I have some relationship advice. That's horrible. Or, not horrible. Okay. So I'm talking to this guy, okay? Mm-hmm. I'm, like, really nervous. I don't know why I'm so nervous.

Do you not? Don't be nervous. Do you don't be nervous? Okay, anyway. I'm talking to the guy, and we've been talking for, like, a month and a half. And so, he was like a kid. What kind of talking? What kind of friends?

What's talking mean? Like, I don't know, actually. You don't know. Like hanging out, not dating. Okay. So it's not just texting. You're seeing him in real life. You're having phone calls?

Yes. Have you known him for a while? Is he like a friend or you just casually met? We met at Bible study. Okay, great. That's like a great place to meet someone. It really is. Yeah.

Okay, but anyway, so we're like texting, talking, like whatever. And he was like, hey, I have to go out of some friends tomorrow. I was like, okay, cool. Who's going to be there? like wondering randomly. He was like just a bunch of guys that are going out, some friends from like high school.

I was like, okay, cool. So I was on Snapchat last night. I saw on Snapchat that there are a bunch of random girls there too, you know? And I was like, do I confirm about it?

Because they made just rarely came over with some other random guys. So you were talking or texting with this guy. Yeah. Something came up. He's like, oh, I'm having some guys over. Yeah.

Didn't invite you. No, for a guy tonight. And then I'm having a guy's night There's a bunch of girls And then girls showed up Okay And then so your question is Do I confirm about it

Or just like let it go? Not if you're just talking Yeah I mean Are you at the point in your relationship Where you I mean I like them Yeah

I mean I don't know I mean I guess You know we weren't there Right I think you just This is one of those situations You have to trust your gut Right I mean

Yeah Do you feel like I mean the red flag for me would be you're not dating him so right he can he's allowed to hang out with other women right but yeah of course it's just like do you want to get a relationship with someone who isn't direct right

and so the question is did he just say I'm hanging out with my friend did he unnecessarily lie to you about something that was kind of stupid you know like he is allowed to hang out with other people but if he like made a big deal about having a guy's night and then then maybe he's someone who

who isn't direct now at the same time he also put on a Snapchat so he also I also wasn't hiding anything, per se, or just he's not very bright. There's that possibility. I never actually, I actually never looked at Snapchat, and I just looked at it last night because I was bored. Instead of confronting him, why don't you just talk to him about it? Like, ask him, like, but not in a confronting way.

I wouldn't be like, so who are those girls? I'd just be like, oh, so, like, what did you end up doing last night and see what he says? Like, don't bring up Snapchat. Just kind of be like, oh, yeah, like, I was hanging with my guy, friends, and then, like, so-and-so had a bunch of women over. But see if he, like, just see if he brings it up. And if you says some weird things, you know. That makes sense.

I just freak out all the time about nothing. Yeah, we all do. You know, that's normal. We all do. All right. Thank you for calling, Ellen. Yeah, thanks for related to my question or helping me my eyes. Hey, no problem.

All right, Nicole from Salem, Oregon. Hey, Nicole. Oh, my gosh. Is this Ashley? It is. Oh, my gosh. I told myself, okay, if I ever call, I'm not going to stand, girl. I'm just going to play it cool, but I just love you so much.

But I'm the ultimate fan girl. You shouldn't feel weird about that. That's true. Are you with Nick and Ben? Yes, the Bachelor boys. How you doing? I'm not just saying that, hey. My favorite two, too, too.

So we hear that you just went through a breakup. Yeah, and I heard you guys are giving out free boy advice. Yes. Hey, way, is it for you? We're not charging. I'm getting paid for this. I don't know if you are named. I've definitely not.

Okay, so I just went through a break up about a week and a half ago. We're sorry. How long did you guys date for? Like two years. That sucks. So, I guess my question for you right now, like, it's obviously hard and it's always going to be hard. Break up the hard no matter what. I guess my question for you guys is, how do you know if you're,

you made the right decision because it is so hard at first, how do you know that your feelings aren't there because you made a mistake? You know what I'm saying? Like, how do you know if you did the right thing or not? I don't know. Because I feel like after a breakup, you kind of forget all the little things that added up to why you broke up and you're just kind of focusing on, because I just keep on going back to all of our memories and the great times we had together.

And how do you, like, not second guess yourself, I guess? That's, this is a, I guess I'll start, because I think Nick's going to offer a lot better advice here than I can. You ask a great question, and I mean that. Like, this is a tremendous question, one that I've asked my friends and I've asked my family, and I don't think I've received a great answer for it yet. So I'd love for Nick to be able to give us that. The one thing I'll tell you is, you know, I can relate, I can identify with you because you do after a breakup, no matter who breaks up with who,

you only remember the really great things, I feel like, and you have to really work to remember the things that really started to separate their relationship, which I was at first really angry about because I was like, in my mind, I was like, this was the perfect relationship. This was great. Everything was just grand.

And then I start to sit down, and I started to think about the things that really started to separate us. I'm like, okay, there was huge issues. There were huge things that needed to be solved. or maybe they weren't solvable. And I guess now that my relationships, I guess I'm single, so I have a couple relationships that are now done, I would rather look back on the relationship in admiration and with gladness

than I would with anger and resentment. And so because it's done, I guess I'm happy, even though it still hurts and it makes it more confusing, I'm happy I view the relationship in a positive way. Yeah. The opposite of that would be harder. with that, I'm going to pass it to Nick because honestly, I'm going to listen really carefully. I don't have any word of advice for you, and I'm sorry on the other thing.

It's okay. It's a hard question. It's a hard subject. You're sending me up for failure, Ben. Hi, how are you? I'm sorry about your recent breakup. I don't know if I have good advice, but I think, and Ben kind of alluded to something I agree with, I just think it's important to remember in a relationship and something I

try to do is that every relationship that fails that you have, like it doesn't mean necessarily it was a failure and I hope that listen you should feel lucky that in a way that being breaking out someone isn't easy because that means you really love someone and you really cared about them and even though it didn't work out I mean the alternative is not giving a shit and that would probably really suck to think that you spent two years with your life with someone that ultimately when it ended you didn't care yeah so I just think it's really important to remember that and be thankful that you really love this person and and even though it didn't work out, it's actually quite normal to think that.

And actually, it's good and it's okay, and so don't beat yourself up. But to Ben's point, you know, once you can accept that and just be okay with it, you do follow your gut. It is important to remember why you broke up, right? Yeah. It doesn't make the other person not a good person. It just means that, you know, ultimately, you know, I think we're all an agreement that we're just hoping to find that one person that we're lucky enough to be able to spend the less of our lives with someone who you, feel like understands you and and not only can like be there now but like be there you know for you like when you're old and ugly and it's hard the right reason yeah it's it's hard to find so you know

you should you know um have i expectations of your partnering yourself and and and he should have that too and um yeah just uh that's okay and and focus it but just i i don't have an advice but only just to accept that it's it's actually normal to think that and instead of having it second-guess yourself, be thankful that you were in a relationship where you cared so deeply about the guy that it wasn't easy to walk away. Yeah, that's a good point of view to have.

And, yeah, no, I definitely get that. And every time I get sad, I just keep on going back to those times. Like, hey, remember when you did this to you? And I just get, like, mad all over again, but I think that's just how I'm coping with being sad right now. That's normal. Don't beat yourself up.

It's pretty early. I mean, what do they say? Like, if you're with someone... It's supposed to be half the amount of time you were with someone. That's a little long. Like, I don't think you should pine on this guy for a year. But, you know, let it, let yourself grieve, you know, you'll be fine. And Nicole, I wish I could give some insight, but I've only broken out with people who weren't actually my boyfriend.

So, thank you for your call. We're going to move on. We are going to talk about one of my favorite sponsors, FabFit Fun. You guys love FabFit Fun because it sends you the latest in beauty, fashion, fitness, and wellness every single season. All the products are full size and you pay $49.99 each season, but they guarantee you a box

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And my question was, after the show airs, does your opinion, or did your opinion of any of the women on your seasons change at all? Good question. Nick? No. Really? Yeah, not really. I like to think that, I mean, listen, I didn't presume to know. a lot of the women who I sent home relatively quickly. I, you know, like the women who went home night one,

I didn't get to know them, so I didn't form an opinion one way or the other. I wasn't going to judge them, you know, not having an opportunity to get to know them. And same kind of goes for some of those women that went home in the first couple of weeks. I didn't have this idea that any of these women were perfect, nor am I perfect. You know what I'm saying?

Like so, but I wasn't like overly shocked by like, I did not like this is a totally different person than I thought like I never had that thought you know like my interpretation of your season though was that you were just set on it being Vanessa you knew it was going to be Vanessa so like you just had to stick with protocol and go on date to the other people and you didn't invest much in them and you probably didn't like that much but you're like I got to do this anyway I would totally disagree with that you would you would not totally disagree I would totally disagree oh really I you know there's no there's no big secret that I had a very early connection with Vanessa and I don't know what Ben's thought because I know he had a very early connection with Lauren but there's one there's a difference between thinking I really think this could be the one and this whole time thinking this might be the one but knowing that you are still like in week two right and to your point you still have to go on dates and it behooves yourself to like still remain open right because even though I had like an amazing date with Vanessa like you never know things could have changed you know um things only got better but like

you have to be open you know and so I guess what I disagree with what you said is that I was still very important for me to get to know these women as much as I could within the time limits that I had so like I really was you know trying to like learn about Rachel and Raven and you know obviously the women who went really far and I do feel like I really got to know them and and you know um really cared for them, you know, as much as I could in a relationship. But like, obviously, Vanessa's always got stronger and stronger and kind of always in the back of my mind. You kind of felt like she could be the one. But it was never, certainly I disagree with the point where, like, I made a decision, week two, that it was going to be Vanessa and why even bother giving

these women the time of day? I disagree with that. And to that point, that's why I don't think that there were another women that, like, wildly surprised me. You know what I'm saying? Part of it was not forming a strong opinion about some of these women that I didn't get to, a chance to really get to know. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, you know, you know that my problem, if I were ever the bachelorette would be

that I would be like, you, you, now I have to date all these guys and be grossed out by them along the way. I mean, listen, like, you, again, I had a strong conviction that it could be Vanessa, but I challenged myself to remain open, right? Right. And so I owed it to the other women to do that, and myself, right? The more I challenged the relationship, the more I challenged my relationship with Vessa, the stronger God in that world.

I was thankful that I wasn't just like dead set on it being Vanessa from early on. I think Ben did that too, right? Yeah, Ben did do that. Yeah, no, I mean, I completely agree with what Nick was saying is you obviously feel something different early on. But then you still are going through a process and one of the beautiful things about The Bachelor is you do have the opportunity to stay open until the very end. And at the very end, my hope was that I stayed open so long that when I was done on one knee, I was so confident because I took the time to invest in everybody else. And that I, at the end, knew that the person I was proposing to was the right person for me. So, you know, as hard as it is sometimes, because you do kind of at some point feel like you're almost like cheating on the person that you care so much about.

It is important in this process and in this format that you're agreeing to participate in to stay open. I think I learned a lot about the women on my season post show. I agree with Nick, right? I never thought they were perfect. And actually, a lot of the things I learned were positive things because I had such a short time period to get to know these women. A lot of our conversations were deep and heavy, and a lot of our moments were, you know, with tears or they're coming from a place of jealousy or I was coming from a place of anxiety. So after the show, when everybody was able to relax, I saw more personality come out of a lot of these women. And I appreciated that.

Now, there was also some things that I learned about some of the women that I didn't think would happen. There are some women that are very critical of themselves or other people on the show or myself, and I didn't expect some of the women to be that way. So for me, I felt like there's about six to eight women on my season of The Bachelor that I really got to know. The other, I was still getting to know when they asked to go home. And so there was a lot of room for me to learn a lot. And so, yeah, as a Bachelor, you learn a lot along the way, and you learn a lot post-show. But I think Nick's right You kind of go

When you send a lot of these women home You come out of it going Yeah you know what Hopefully I get to know you afterwards But right now I just I'm saying goodbye to the things that You know I don't know a lot about Yeah I mean

And I think part too is Like Ben said some of the things That you learn Because maybe some of the things they say Or dead post show I've been part of this world long enough To like There's a level of

This world is very strong As we know and it kind of plays with our most basic insecurities. And, you know, with social media interviews, it's almost sometimes predictable how people react sometimes. You try to give people the benefit of the doubt because it does play your insecurities. And oftentimes people will say things about other people

or maybe even you, you know, like you just sent someone home. And, you know, why did they send me home and they pick some of so? And so, like, I think some of those reactions that people say or do for the first time kind of being in the public eye well sometimes it frustrates you and you're like well I didn't think they were that type of person you also like kind of recognize

it's the nature of the business like every season it kind of happens and like next season you know a lot of the girls who go home that Ari sends home early will sometimes be the most vocal about like the behind the scenes and have their opinions when they may not really actually know but

they're just trying to be a part of experience and feel like they got to be a part of And so it happens almost every season, and you kind of give them the benefit of the doubt. Watch for it. It will happen this season. I guarantee it with the women to get off of Ari's show. So with that, we're going to say goodbye to our good buddy, Nick, who has answered these questions eloquently and sophisticatedly and with wisdom.

Nick, we appreciate you, man. Thank you for coming on this podcast and being open with us. We can't thank you enough. Thanks for having me, guys. You're so articulate. You're so good, Nick. Ashley, you're too nice. Nick, come back soon.

No, you do. He really speaks from the heart. That's right. He really does. He's a good man. Nick, come back soon, please. Ashley, speaking of other good things, we need you to roll into our final sponsor the podcast.

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This stuff is just going to make you look good without makeup. Okay. All right, you guys, big news. Sarah, who we were talking about earlier in the podcast, who wants to talk a little bit about what she believes that Danielle meant in her Instagram from last week is going to come on and she's going to talk about Legally Blonde. And that's awesome.

I have 100% respect. Any legally blonde references. And let's just see what she has. I really, really am curious to learn from her. Sarah? Yeah, hi. Hi, Sarah. How are you doing?

Pretty good. How about you? I'm good. I want to know your both thoughts about last week's interview and where you think we went wrong. Okay. I think what happened was is that some people perceive problems that other people have as like more minuscule when I think at least with that problem I see it as like a really deep-rooted problem and sexism that some people don't notice because it doesn't seem as serious as

others like racism other sections other aspects of sexism so I whatever I hear that I do think of legally blonde because in legally blonde it's literally it is my favorite movie of all time and it's because it's so subtle in the way that it teaches you about sexism because in Outwood's story I think in the beginning she's looked at as just that regular sorority girl because that's all she proceeds of herself

because that's what she was taught. She was taught to be beautiful to use her beauty as a way to or not even use her beauty. She just knows that she's pretty and that that's an asset of hers. But as she moved on into the movie and tries to like you have

no idea how hard it is to get a one 79 on the else that's like it's almost impossible that girl is like genius but no one realizes it because she is so beautiful like no one looks past that and just assumes that she got somewhere because of her beauty and not because she's smart as hell like no one takes the time to like just get to know her until the end of the movie and even at the end of the movie she has to do something insane to prove herself which sucks because like you don't have you shouldn't have to do something so insane or so so above level to be able to get the respect you deserve. I'm learning a lot as I'm listening to this. And the main thing is, as you give you that example of legally blonde, I'm sitting here going that she's completely correct. I think I made a very arrogant and unintelligent comment when we talked to Danielle and said something along the lines of, how would anybody ever complain about their beauty?

I don't see a scenario that somebody would say, I'm too pretty. I don't. Why would anybody complain about that? It's like complaining about having too much money. But now I'm listening to you. I'm saying, well, they're right there is anything. example of why somebody who complained about their beauty

and that makes a complete sense. It's very legitimate and I just want thanks for pointing that out. You taught me something today that I had never, I would have never thought about unless you,

and it comes from a movie that, you know, honestly I've never seen. But. What? Ben, Ben, I'm not, I know this sounds silly. It's like, it could have been

Oscar-worthy. It's really well, well-done. But do you know why? It wasn't. It was because, It looked at it like a chick flick. I do believe it was nominated for a Golden Globe, though, in comedy. That's good.

Yeah. But I had, like, even I had a friend who is similar to me, like, we're both feminists, we're both really in this. And she's never watched that movie because she said, no, that's just a chick flick. Like, it doesn't have any steps to it. And I'm like, you have no clue what you're saying. Well, hey, time out. Time out. Before we start ripping on things here, I particularly love chick flicks.

So I would watch a chick flick or not. Can we bring chick flicks back? I mean, guys, I'm irritated. It's like people, the box, home again. Home again was sort of a chick flick. I need like a grand romance, though. Like, there are no Catherine Heigler or Jaila movies. I don't understand why they're not making them.

It makes me sad. It makes me sad. It's like we don't value romance and love in our culture anymore. I think it's a real demonstration of like the world we're living in. So movie Producers of the World Please make some more I really need like something

That's gonna like make my heart flutter With James Marsden or Matthew McConaughey I know he probably won't do it anymore But you know what I mean Yeah I completely understand that And I just I But I also like you have to remember Like when this movie came out

It was about 2001 From when I remember And it was like I think it may have I do agree with you actually It should have gotten like At least an Oscar domination because the subtlety of like the message and like you know like it it wasn't even that subtle but no one I don't think a lot of people saw it because they they perceived it as something different than it when it was like my friend when she like I sat her down and I made her watch it by the end she just said wow I would have never expected that and I guess maybe it was their like one of like on their fault like their fault a little bit because maybe they they didn't

really show how deep it could be or how deep it was. But I just think a lot of people judge based on, like, a cover. And I back to what you were saying with, like, disagreement line. I don't think I was disagreeing with you on what you meant, like, about that message. I think you guys for a little bit longer were just honing in on her beauty thing, which I was like, I just was like, there's so much more depth to this conversation than what they you guys were getting at that moment, which is why I wanted to mention that that idea that even though it seems so superficial to be complaining about your beauty,

there's some like really deep-rooted idea that really hurts women in like different fields that you just don't know about. Like it's just, it goes so much deeper than just, oh, she's complaining about her beauty. That's just, that's such an asset. It really is not sometimes in this world where you want to be perceived as serious. Some people can't think you're kidding serious. and care about like what like putting on makeup or working out or something like that it's just some people just can't make that connection and it sucks I I'm learning a lot from you and I appreciate your passion your passion for justice and your passion to to communicate things correctly and fairly and your passion for equality thank you for calling into this

I'm learning a lot from you I'm going to take this and kind of walk away from the podcast and think through you know where my heart was at where my mind was at during this whole thing. I appreciate you telling Ashley and I that you didn't necessarily disagree with us kind of trying to bring up the topic. Because that's really, and I mean this, really what we want to do. We had a bunch of emails from our listeners asking us to talk about this Instagram post, and we, so we wanted to do it. I think we're the issue why. If there, you know, when we talk about issues and what went wrong, and I think in every podcast and everything we do that we don't do them perfectly was that we didn't communicate exactly, or we didn't communicate

perfectly what we're trying to ask her. And so I appreciate you bring that up in keeping us accountable. And I hope you can keep us accountable from here and out because we want this to be a podcast that's fun, that's exciting, that's interesting, that's dramatic. We want it to be all those things, but we also don't want to hurt anybody in the process. So thank you for coming on today to the almost finish podcast. We appreciate you being a listener. And I hope that doesn't stop because of last week.

No, I won't stop. And I just, I think one thing that you can fix the next time is just maybe instead of talking about Danielle in the beginning and then coming up with calling her, maybe like put the call first or decide to call her beforehand just so she has a voice. I think a lot of people also were annoyed that. It felt like she didn't really have a voice until the end. Oh, I totally agree. I think that that was something we probably should have done. All right. Thank you so much for your call. Sarah. No worry. Really appreciate you listening, emailing us, coming on and explaining all of this. Yeah, it was part procrastination on my part, but yeah. What do you mean procrastination? What do you

got to do? I actually have class in like a half hour that I need to get to. I'm sure you kill it in class. You're probably a very good class participant. All right, Sarah. Thank you so much. All right, Ben. Are you ready to wrap this show up? I am. It's been a great episode. We want to thank Nick for coming on the day. He is a great guest, and we will have him back. We're excited to have him back. I want to thank Ashley for talking about a topic that I know has affected her deeply. We want to think the team from iHeart for putting this podcast together hey we're one more yeah it's guys easton mark you know he they basically they're here for ben the nice ben in my podcast beck's podcast and dean's podcast they listen to so much bachelor chatter

they just must want to kill us all right but we appreciate them and amy we love you so much all right guys one more episode down we'll talk to you next week i've been ben i've been Ashley. See ya. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHeart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.