The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - S4 #12 From Winter Games to Winter Break

Episode Date: March 15, 2018

Ben and Ashely convene to address Ashley’s breakup with Kevin Wendt.  They go through why the relationship fell apart, and how things are between them now. Then Kevin joins them, to give his perspective on his time with Ashley, and where their paths are headed.   Bachelor favorite Nick Viall joins Ben and Ashley to weigh in on public break-ups and help some listeners with relationship advice. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. Hey, everybody. Today just doesn't seem like the most happiest of days for the Almost Famous podcast. We're going to start out a little odd. I mean, I feel like we have to. There's no other option. I have my co-host, Ashley Ikenetti, in the studio. Ashley, I want to just start out.

How are you doing? I am fine. I'm good, Ben. I am. I mean, it's a sad situation. Obviously, you guys, not I want to say obviously, but some of you out there may have heard that Kevin and I split up, and obviously all breakups are not pleasant.

Yeah, so for anybody up there listening, my wonderful and beautiful co-host, Ashley, was dating Kevin from Bachelor Winter Games. they had a relationship from my perspective and I don't want to speak for Ashley and I'll let Ashley speak for herself here but from my perspective it was one

that was supportive they cared a ton for each other but unfortunately just like some really great relationships do and we'll talk about that later on the podcast this relationship ended and because Ashley is a huge part of this podcast

we didn't know any other way to do the podcast but to talk about it and we're lucky enough to have Ashley in studio, and then we're also going to bring Kevin on. So the two of them can talk, share their perspective. I'll try to walk in through this. What I do want to say is this shows that both people have a lot of respect for each other and a lot of love and a lot of care, if they're willing to come out and talk to each other,

even post-breakup on air and live for all of you. So, Ashley, thank you. What exactly is your relationship like with Kevin today? I think we're totally, we're totally friends. when he comes out to L.A. next, or if I ever find myself in Toronto, we will be seeing each other for sure. Everybody knows that I stay pretty close to my exes between Jared and Wells. You know, I'm in good terms with all of them and consider them both really good friends. I do want to say, like, I do that. Why do you do that? Why do you stay so close with them? What's your

reasoning for that? I guess like when there's somebody so important in your life and somebody you got along with and cared about and loved as a person so much that you just can't I just find that it's weird to eliminate them from your life and it didn't work out romantically for some reason but doesn't mean that you can't still be friends I mean of course if it was like a nasty breakup or I broke up with him or we broke up for reasons that were you know hostile because like we genuinely didn't get along that's one thing but if it's just like not there then, and it's not like a long-term, like this is my person type of thing, then it's different if you want to be friends afterward.

I mean, that's something we've talked about in the podcast before and just to refresh anybody. Ashley, when is that no longer appropriate? Or is it ever not appropriate to stay friends with your exes and stay in communication with them? I feel like it just depends what the current relationship is like and what the previous relationship was like. I think there's been situations in my life. that I've stayed close to my exes.

Actually, I would say I have a decent relationship with all of them, but some look different than others. You know, for example, my relationship in college was somebody that I cared a ton about that I loved. When we broke up, we didn't talk for two years, but today we can have a good conversation and talk very openly about life, and we have a lot of respect for each other, but that took time. And so, I don't know, it's just like the easy out in this is, well, it takes time

to kind of figure out what that relationship's going to look like, or to even see if you desire to still have a relationship with that person. I mean, totally. I think the unique thing for you actually, and I want to hear, you know, kind of this, is not that you stay close with your exes, but that you stay close with them right away. It's almost like, you know, have you allowed

yourself the time to feel this? I think with Kevin, we like, you know, I'm really bad at this. I think that maybe the reason I've stayed close to the two particular exes, we're referring to is because in the bachelor family, it's hard to avoid them and ignore them. So as mine as will, just be friends because you're probably going to have to see them pretty

much right away anyway. So with Kevin, because we're so closely associated in public, I feel like that's a reason that like we may jump into a friendship quicker than I would if I was just like a regular, like a regular ex who like I could actually just distance myself from in every way. I mean, but I mean, I think for me, you know, I had a relationship in the Bachelor franchise and it's hard for me to see myself, you know, if I ran into Lauren today, it would be really hard not because I dislike her, but it would be really hard on me. And so I just think it's either one, impressive, two, new and kind of modern to have such a quick relationship or three, I just wanted an explanation from you because I think it is, I think it is something that not a lot of people can do is become friends with them. I mean you and you and Kevin announced your breakup when um it was announced on Monday but it happened last week I think it's actually it's all about how we broke up and why so I think we should discuss that more why is it yeah yeah yeah okay so it's that okay

first off he is like the most um like he's I don't want to use cliche as like amazing he's so sweet like he is like so like sugary he like truly is like just like genuine and nice guy and you can vouch for him on that he's very protective like not just in like the physical way that he like wants to provide and protect for his woman and his family which i love the old fashion the romance of that all but he also me i also mean that like emotionally like he just wants to be that rock for his person and to be completely there for them emotionally and completely committed to someone like that is what he desires and i think that is just so beautiful and yeah he just he wants to create that safe space for someone and the way that he like

cares about me and I'm sure whoever he's with and he cherishes me it's just it's what every girl wants and it's just it's sad when it doesn't work out and the reason that it doesn't it didn't work out here is I just feel like there was like a lack of connection I don't want to blame distance I would never blame distance I know that it's been in some of the articles but but I am like a strong believer that I would move or at least make it work for the love of my life, even if they were on the other side of the country, like the planet. But for us, it was just like a lack of connection. And like, I think mental chemistry, obviously the physical chemistry was there.

We won the kissing competition. But to a quote Carrie Bradshaw as you hate when I do, it was just missing that Zaza Zoo. And I think I think after three months, you kind of know, like, like, if this isn't my person, if this isn't my soulmate, my future husband, you have to let it go because it's just not fair for both of you. And especially at the ages we're out, I told Kevin I was like, if we were in our mid-20s and we wanted to be boyfriend and girlfriend, like, I think we could have been boyfriend and girlfriend for a long time. But as two people who are very marriage focused at 30 and 34, I think that the best thing to do is like if this isn't my forever, we should

just end it now without keeping it just lingering through trips here and there. So is that how the conversation went down? You brought this up to him and just said, hey, I'm not feeling this. The connection isn't there. You know, we're getting to the age where we just can't play around anymore. I think this needs to be done. Yeah. I just knew, you know, I had been feeling those feelings for like a couple weeks leading up

to the conversation. And it was like our first deep sit-down conversation. for a couple days. Like, I was just so bombarded with my birthday and the bachelor finale and stuff. And I just thought, I was like, I think this is going to be the phone call because we have to come up with a trip to see each other. And I don't know if that would be right to do right now because I think it would just lead this whole thing on a dragging journey.

Yeah. I actually, I listen to you here. And I wonder, how heavy was this, like, how heavy was this on your heart and on your shoulders and on your mind? So much. I've never felt like this before. It was the hardest thing ever. It was the hardest conversation to have.

It just killed me. How many times in your life have you actually broke up with somebody? Obviously, never before. Never before. This is the first time. I mean, walk me through that. I hate to see that I broke up with him, but like, you know, I feel like I asked him, I go, do you really think I'm your forever person?

And he's like, I don't really know if I thought about that before. And I was like, well, I think at three months at these ages, you should be thinking about that. And if you're not, he was like, maybe since I haven't, that's probably a sign that you're not. And I'm like, yes, probably. Yeah, but you were going into it with the intention that this was probably going to be the conversation that ended things. So walk for all of our listeners out there, because most of the people listen to this podcast or most of the people who will listen this podcast at some point in their life will either be in a breakup, go through a break. but I guess that is one of the themes of this podcast is we all get broken up with or we're all going to be the person that has to break up with somebody at some point in our life a relationship

will end as unfortunate as that is it is just part of life actually going into that week preparing for that conversation with Kevin like how are you feeling it was the worst feeling I've ever had like I've always been on the other side of the relationship you know I've always been the one that's like holding on and knowing the breakup is coming and it is the worst feeling in the entire world. So I've never been like I had like a feeling in my chest all week, you know, just like that heaviness on your heart. It's not just an expression. It's like something that your body physically feels. And I've never been so overwhelmed with like empathy and compassion just because I've been on that side so many times. It's just a horrible, horrible feeling.

And yeah, it does make you ask that debate. Would you rather break up with somebody or would you rather be broken up with? Because both are horrible, especially when the person is so terrific. Like, they have the best heart and soul. All they do is want to, like, care for you. And it makes it even difficult. Because, you know, like, there's those relationships

where you're like, no, we're fighting and, like, there's this about this person. I can't live with that. But it's just when there's a lack of spark, and that's the only thing. really, those are the hardest of breakups. I get it. I mean, and it doesn't help that the person that you recently just broke up with is coming

on to this podcast here in a second, but it also shows a side of you, Ashley, that I know we all appreciate. And that's the fact that you can keep a respectable relationship and that you treat your significant others so well that they have a hard time getting, getting you out of their life at all and they'd rather just even be friends with you and the opposite would be losing you completely. So I think

it's incredible the relationship you can keep with Kevin. Yeah, well I'm really glad because I just don't under, you know, I know it's hard to be friends with somebody afterward but if you leave it on such good terms and you really enjoy each other as people, as mine is, well, you know, I'm not saying he's going to be a huge

part of like my daily or weekly life, but like am I going to check in with him every now and then, yeah. But he appreciated the fact that I was so honest with him and it was so hard you know honesty is honestly so hard it's hard I don't know what else to say but you don't want to drag people along you know

it's like you got to rip the band-aid off because in the long run if you drag it out and you keep like sugar-coating it all it's going to make them feel even worse it's funny because I remember when Wells was on this podcast like six months ago talking about how he did that with me he was like but don't you like the fact that I didn't sugarcoat it and I was like no I need to deliver it with more sensitivity you you deliver it with sensitivity but like yes being honest with the person and not stringing them along is the best way to do it I completely agree so let's let's rip the bandaid off let's get Kevin on the line but before we do that I need to tell you all about smart suites smart suites is one of our newest and most revolutionary supporters of this podcast I really like him they sent us a bunch of of smart sweets to our houses. We've tried them, and I think you're all going to be amazed after listening to this,

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That's smartsweets.com. Use our promo code, almost famous today. They're worth it. They're revolutionary. Moving on now to bring in the other person that's been affected by this relationship. It just feels to me, not odd, it actually kind of feels healthy. I am ecstatic to introduce this person. I think he is an incredible man.

I was so excited that he was with one of my closest and best friends, Ashley. I have a hold this guy to a very high regard. Kevin, are you on the line with us? Hey, I'm here, buddy. Kevin, welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. Thank you for coming on here. Hey, guys. Thanks for me on.

I love you guys. Kevin, we just said in talking to Ashley, kind of breaking down your relationship from her perspective. Kevin, before we get started, there's been a kind of a question that was brought up. And for all of our listeners out there, please email us at Ben and Ashley at iHeartMedia.com with your thoughts on this.

It's interesting that you and Ashley can stay friends so quickly after a breakup. Do you feel like this is common? Is this something that's happened in your life before? Is it healthy? Can you kind of walk us through that? You know what? I think we kind of started on friendship.

I think the way me and her clicked when we first met, I just knew the way we kind of laughed right off to go about everything. I just felt like it was a connection that, you know, depending on or no matter what happens down the line, I always just felt like we had a good connection from the start. And I feel like there's nothing happened between us. I think a lot of exes, you might not remain friends if there was an event that happened. I think Ashley and I just got put into a situation and in this franchise, I mean, it happens all the time where you kind of fall for the person first and then all the logistics or the long-term thought process comes later.

And I feel like there's nothing between us that's negative, so there's no reason we can't be friends. And we still get along so great. I still, you know, text her every day, see how she's doing. It's not like it's a, like I feel like you really have to have a negative thing happen. And if two people cared about each other at any point in their lives, you should be able to remain friends unless there was a negative thing happen. That's how I feel. That's exactly what I said.

It wasn't like we had a hostile breakup. It was like we get along really well, just taking the romance out of it. Yeah. I mean, the one thing I will say, I think I did bring it up to Ashley, like, it was square away. I'm a pretty like black and white guy, and I'm really working on trying to live in the gray area a little bit more. And I remember right when we got back from Vermont, I was in Florida for Christmas, and we had FaceTime a few times right away. And I think I even brought it up really early, like long-term question,

like the stupid guy that I am, like already thinking down the road. And her response was, can we just enjoy this for a while? And then I kind of paced off her and said, yeah, let's do that because this will be a fun experience. I was coming to L.A. for a whole bunch of the month of February. And I was going to be staying with her, and we had a bunch of plans in January as well. But I just kind of let her control and not let me –

I'm usually a bit of a control freak. I like to kind of know where I'm going next, and this time I decided to try to be the passenger a little bit and say, let's just enjoy each other's company and get to know each other, have our fun experience, and then we'll take it from there. And I think we've kind of put the serious talks that a lot of people have. We put it on the back burner and just enjoyed the process and enjoyed getting to know each other before we had to kind of answer those tough questions. Were the tough questions the one that, in your opinion, Kevin ultimately pulled you apart, or was there anything else? I feel like when you start off in a long-distance relationship, it's kind of a double-edged store. You need to live in the same place to know if you're compatible forever,

but in order for somebody to really uproot their life and go somewhere, you feel like you want to be going for that person forever. And I know in certain situations in your life, I know I did have a long-distance relationship in my early 20s, and my girlfriend was in schools. She transferred schools. We dated for a year. It didn't work out.

and we're still friends and that was fine but now that I'm in my 30s and Ashley as well I know you're not big on like my life is pretty established here and I'm not saying I wouldn't move for the right relationship I just feel like

you have to be very sure you have to be kind of over that hump and after spending so much time out there kind of being a fanboy of Ashley and you know getting to see her life a little bit out there and I realize she's so meant for that but she's just very proud of her She's a very meant to be in L.A., and I'm a huge fan of her, and I realize when I really get down to it, would I move there?

I would, but a lot of stuff would have to happen first, and if I would ever bring her here, even though I love the city of Toronto and I love living here, I would always feel like I'm going to be resented eventually because it doesn't have the same career opportunity, and I think she's going to be a huge success. I think her 30s are going to be the best years of her life, and I just, I wasn't able to get over that hump. And actually it was Ashley that kind of it was good to have heard to let me enjoy the process because when I did go through this kind of the first time, I made similar mistakes. Well, right when I was engaged off the television show, I was right away thinking, like, when are we doing this? And it was one of my faults that I had. I didn't just let it happen. And I think the great thing about the way I actually approached it was, like, the Vermont experience was so fun.

Like you guys both know, I had a great time there, and I was so glad I met Ashley. I think we had a really, really good bond together. I think just once you got into the real world, we kind of experienced how each of us live individually and realized that it just didn't mesh. I think Ashley said it to me pretty well the other day. You can meet somebody that's meant to be in your life and meant to be an important part of your life, but doesn't necessarily mean they have to be your forever, like, person. And I see Ashley as someone that I will never not think the best of

and not want to call and see how she's doing. I just don't think that we're our lives line up to kind of take that next step. And I actually really appreciate that she was able to kind of address that early on because the more I'm a very committed guy. So the more I, and Ashley, you know this, the more I, the more time goes on, the more visits and weeks go on, I would just be more and more into it. And then just the heartbreak is just so much worse. Yeah.

He's so committed. It's like the greatest thing to see from her guy. like when he is in he is all in and he just wants to do everything to make it work and I think that at some point that could almost be a flaw because like you do get really like into the idea like this must be success but like then you just have to step back and be like but is this the right you know the right story to end like that and it's also different just the way our lives work long distance can work I've seen what work before yeah but I'm obligated to a city where I work 24 our ships and I mean I get months off at a time to do TV shows but to be able to go to be able to go every weekend back and forth and it's so hard to do especially with Ashley's busy lifestyle that um we we both just appreciated the fact that we really terrible each other we had a great connection but I just don't think our lives kind of go in the same direction we have totally different lifestyles and interest you know and it's just like yeah

like I love him being part of my life but I don't think it's we just we just don't think that they're like our person forever. Kevin, I want to ask you, and I'm going to ask Ashley the same question. How ready are you to find that person? I think this whole experience, I think it kind of got me, got me over that hump. The breakup that I went through last year was pretty rough on me. I definitely doubted it that I was ready even when we went to Vermont, similar to your thoughts, to start then. And I just think I'm definitely ready.

Like, I'm in that point where I'm always moving and I always want to do the next thing. But at the same time, I've had a very good feeling 20s and my 30s are going very well. I see my two little nieces with my brother and stuff. I'm definitely ready for that. Like, that's, like, number one on my radar. Maybe that's why I might come off a little intense when I'm into somebody. I don't want to say I'm desperate. But I also, like, I want to have, I'm desperately looking for that, like, I love to come home and cook for a woman.

and I want to have a family. Like, this is what, this is the life that I want. So I'm definitely ready, Ben. I think it's just, you just got to be patient and let it happen. He is the ultimate husband material, and I still believe this completely. Like, I cannot wait for him to find his, like, you know that Wilson Phillips song that I never understood? It's, like, about your ex finding love and happiness. It's, like, actually how I feel about Kevin.

Like, I can't wait to see him in that element. What about you? I mean, actually, then what, I mean, what? I mean, what happened? I mean, he's everything, you told me, you think he's the best looking guy to walk the face of this earth. You know, he's sweet. He's ultimate husband material. I mean, this might not even be on.

Kevin, Ashley, what's going on in your life that kind of doesn't allow you to get to this point? No, I think there's just, there is, there's the, it sounds a little harsh, but it's just that lack of, there's magic. There's, we get along very well. It's just, there's a little something missing. and you can't really pinpoint what it is. That's just how I feel. I feel like that's normal, and I feel like you get those connections all the time

where if you take away our outside world and just put Ashley and me on an island together, we probably get along really well, and that's what Vermont was. And then you add in everything else and interest. It can be everyday interest to when we get up in the morning to, you know what I mean? Like there's just life now that two people can go in different kind of direction.

It doesn't mean they don't feel love and respect each other. It just means if it doesn't line up, And the older you get, the quicker you want to identify that. Totally. I mean, Kevin, for you, when Ashley gave you the phone call and you guys started the conversation and it was, you know, kind of, we got a little backstory to that of how the conversation went. At this point in time, were you feeling the lack of spark also or was just kind of a one-sided thing?

I feel like I was very, like Ashley said earlier, I got that commitment thing where I just, I'm very hard at giving up on things. And I'm not saying that we gave up on it and without trying. I'm saying I was still ready to come there again. And I know her birthday, I wanted to be there when I had to work. And I was planning on coming out either that week or she was going to come here. And I knew we definitely had like an uphill battle. Like I wasn't 100% in yet, but I also knew I wanted to see her again.

But now that a few days have passed and we both kind of collected our thoughts and emotions and stuff, I know she made the right call and I know this is the way it should be. and I honestly true and I feel like I got friend zoned Ashley you friend zoned me this time Oh wow Lippin turning the tables But I

But I'm okay I think The more I process it And the more I mean I've kept this kind of to myself I didn't want any comments Getting out there without us doing this Because I know we wanted this to be our platform

To kind of talk about it But I've been to myself But a few people like my parents Or whoever I have talked I know they just see that I'm a very loving person And I want the best things for Ashley I just don't think the spark was fully ignited by the time we had the conversations by respect

for these kind of doing it earlier on except for we could have done two or three more trips and then it's just what it kind of dragged it out so it's all good it makes sense and I want to address kind of why we decided to talk about this on the podcast one um I've been like so open and sharing my entire love life with everybody out there for like three years so when my first breakup happens I think that it's something that there was there is a natural curiosity about and what i wanted to prevent was everybody's interpretations personal interpretations and like all the social media picking apart and um i just didn't want people to make assumptions and like to be like oh ashley's the sad girl like i'm crying for her like

her poor broken heart and i didn't want people like villainizing him and saying like he did so and so like no like we just wanted to like kind of get this out there together since we are on such a such friendly terms and be like no guys this is actually how it happened like don't come up with their crazy theories i mean you better do this on the podcast are you kidding me we both have a stake in this man if you didn't know on the podcast i'd be so mad god i don't know if you would give this to anybody else that'd be up there no it's like a nice safe place for us to just talk about it like you know civilized people yeah i felt like we talked about this a day or two

after we had to talk conversation and rather than it just be something, you know, if one rumor starts of what happened, it can get pretty and this is still a new world to me. I know you guys have been in for a while, but Ashley is pretty open with all of her fans and people watch the show

get invested in our relationship. So at the end of the day, we respect the process of what we signed up for and we respect that if I was following somebody that I really was kind of rooting for, we don't owe them an explanation, but at the same time We appreciate that they should get one. That was so perfectly put.

It makes sense. That makes complete sense. Kevin, I know you've got to go here. You're a busy guy. You've got to get back to saving the world and fighting fires in Canada. I mean, what an attractive job, you know? You've already talked them up enough, Ashley. We know you love Kevin.

We've got to hear your reasoning. We've got to hear your heart. And is there anything here to kind of close out this segment with you that you'd want to say to Ashley? Just for the listeners to hear, so they know exactly what you think of this beautiful young lady we all love. The only thing I really got to say now that I have a whole, I kind of have my own vision of her now because I didn't see her in past seasons of the show. I didn't know her reputation. I just met her very organically, you know, got to know each other with no outside distractions. and then getting to kind of see her in her everyday life,

I realize she's going to be a wonderful wife and mother, and whenever she is ready, there'll be a lineup down the block for her. And I know that she's going to be, that'll be probably her favorite part of her whole life, and I know she comes from a great family, and they'll just, I'm going to be jealous already of whatever guy ends up with her, so I know how great she is, and I'm just happy to have met her.

I'm happy that we kind of went through this together, because I think if either of us weren't there for this experience, we might have both had maybe a negative experience. I think we kind of helped each other through the whole thing. Right up until I flew home, you know, a couple weeks ago, it was all positive. And I think that's the one great thing. And that's the reason why I love this whole – I know you guys are both fans of the two,

but I love this whole process of, like, human interaction because I got to know Ashley without even knowing one comment together. I just got to, you know, get to know her as a person, and then build from that. And it didn't work out at this time. And I just know she is going to blow some guys' socks off one day and just be the way for the century. Oh, you're the sweetest.

Kevin Wint, we love you. We respect you. I think incredibly highly of you. Thank you for being a great guy to my friend. Thank you for showing men out there how to treat a woman. Kevin, we wish you not only the best from this podcast, but as friends of yours, we are completely rooting for you. Ashley, I know you agree.

Do you agree? Oh, 100%. And I'm glad that you guys even got to hear him today because I think it's further proof that he is just like such a catch. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you. We appreciate it. Kevin Wynn on a lot of podcast.

Keep being hot. Bye. Bye-bye. That was cathartic. How'd that feel? It felt good. I'm glad that we did that. I think it was a perfect demonstration of how we really feel towards each other.

I mean, Ashley, I'm sitting here, and it's still weird for me to think that you're even in a relationship after Winter Games, honestly, because who would have thunked that Winter Games would have led either of us to actually like being in a relationship? But you met somebody that you were so excited for, that you're so excited about. I want to know from you personally. I know that when Kevin first started showing interest in you, it was a good confidence booster for you. And one thing I've seen, and you can tell me if I'm completely wrong, listeners, I want you to tell me if I'm completely wrong. You do a pretty good job with that anyways. Since you've met Kevin, you've stood, you haven't owned your identity as the emotional kind of friend-zoned person that maybe you had before. You've tried to change your identity.

You spoke against maybe your emotions. You spoke against always being friend-zoned. You've almost became this new Ashley And I want to know where that comes from Because even in the conversation with Kevin I hear you trying to defend Who you are now Compared to who you are before

Really? Well I do think that Our relationship was like this I don't want it's like it's stepping stone Which is maybe a weird term But for both of us Like I think he needed to find someone To get him out there

Because he was You know he wasn't as he was pretty torn up still about the breaking off of his engagement and okay so i guess i came around like eight months after that and he had not really dated or invested emotionally in anyone until me and he needed me to kind of like get himself back out there and to just let himself feel for somebody again and then for me i guess i needed to find someone who was going to make me feel really valued, cherished, sexy, just and make me feel like a catch. Not that I've always thought I was a catch. Like, I've never been that girl who's like, nobody likes me. Like, why, what's wrong?

I've never been the girl who says what's wrong with me. I mean, I don't think I've ever even said that on the show. I've always been the girl who's like, why doesn't he like me? Like, what is it about him that doesn't like me? So I've always had like more confidence that I feel like people think that I that I have but it it does give me a nice sense of security to be like oh no this guy like he thinks I'm all that and that kind of confirms for me that I am I mean we all think you are and it sounds like your emotional health is intact and we can tell that you're doing okay but let's talk about your physical health health for a second and I want to talk about it by introducing you to quit when it comes to your health

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Do you know if you're going to be ready again for any type of romantic connection or romantic relationship? Or is this going to take time? I think I'll take a little bit of time off, but I don't think I have a big recovery period I have to go through. So, I mean, if the right guy, if Prince Charming or whoever, Terry Bradshaw, that's her name, right? Carrie Bradshaw, not Terry Bradra. Carrie Bradshaw. If I remember, right, if you're Mr. Big walked into a room, right? Am I referencing?

Yes, yes. You're doing great job. Okay, if you're Mr. Big walked into a room right now, you know, you would be ready to at least sit down and have a conversation and you feel like you're still open to the possibility of finding somebody right now. You're healed enough or you recovered enough for that. I feel like yes. Awesome. Actually, one thing selfishly that I could not tell you until now, because now you are back to being single. Welcome to the club.

I recognize that I wasn't getting as many questions from you on advice recently. And I wonder if any of that has to do on the podcast and outside of the podcast, I wonder if any of that has to do with the fact that Kevin was in your life. Maybe. Could be. So now you're back to leaning on the almost famous podcast. and your co-hosts is nice advice. I know Dr. Ben back. Well, speaking of Dr. Ben, we also have our other favorite doctor, Dr. Nick Vile, in the hot seat right now.

Nick's going to come on here in a second. Nick and I are going to talk about breakups with Ashley. We're going to talk about how we recover from breakup, how we recommend you recover from breakups. We're going to reach out to you again for advice. anybody out there that has any advice on how to recover from a breakup or any of their crazy breakup stories, please email us. I've been in Ashley at iHeartMedia.com. We look forward to hearing from you and we'll read or try to read your emails on this podcast.

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and when you all don't see and hear on this podcast or on a show is nick has been very supportive to me through my uh relational struggles uh he also is one of the people that has the most respect for his breakup he he holds it very close to his chest he has a lot of respect for his uh former relationships so we thought nobody else that has more respect for his partners and they come in and talk respectively about breakups and also give advice on how you handle breakups than one of our favorites, Nick Fiole, Nick, welcome to the podcast.

What's up, Ben? Hey, what's up, dude? Hey, you know, obviously this podcast feels a little different today. I mean, how often do you have a couple that has recently broke up, actually, within the last week, come on and talk to each other? I mean, that's unique, that's different, but it just shows kind of the character that Ashley and Kevin Hold. Nick, I've noticed just from conversation with you,

you have a lot of respect for your past relationships and that you have a certain way that you kind of manage and handle these breakup publicly. Can you talk us about that? Yeah, I mean, I've always been a big believer in terms of relationships I've had in my life rather romantically or otherwise that they kind of help form you as a person.

Um, so all of my exes, uh, I think, uh, have benefited me in some way or another. Um, and so you get the stepping stone comment. It's like all a part of the path to your person. Sure. I mean, I think being our person is, is like, it's a nonstop evolution. I don't think we ever, hopefully we never peak. Um, in terms of who we are as people that can always change. Um, and so I, it's, There's just no real reason to speak negatively about people who have had a part of, who are part of your past. You know, in any serious relationship I've been on, I've felt love and I've felt love for that person. I've felt loved by that person.

And so those are, those are special moments that even though it doesn't work out, you kind of hold near and dear to your heart. So, you know, I just try to always remember that. And I think that's something that I really admire and look up to with you because you always do give that constant reminder, as well as Ashley just did with her conversation with Kevin and Kevin vice versa, is, you know, you hold these people up high. No matter if there's been pain involved or not, you hold them up high because of the impact that they've had in your life. And the fact that you did share life with them for a little bit, let's go from our personal lives here for a second to get very bachelor-esque on everybody. I know this isn't always our favorite thing to do, but it makes sense because a lot of the people listen to this podcast have gotten to know you and Ashley and I through The Bachelor. Nick, as you entered into being The Bachelor, what kind of advice were you given that you feel like was helpful for you to at least meet Vanessa, not necessarily leading to the end of that relationship, but at least going on the right track to finding her?

I feel like you're setting yourself up for success, Ben. I think you know the answer to this question. I mean, the best advice I got was from you and your ex-Loren. Honestly, I mean, I think that's fair. That's great if it really was that. But don't just say that because you don't know. No, it really is. I've said this in other interviews.

This isn't groundbreaking news here. But yeah, I mean, I'm sure you remember shortly after I was announced that I had dinner with the two of you. as well as Lauren's brother was there. Delightful young man. And, you know, you guys were pretty candid with your advice. And the advice I got, and I think you supported this, was Lauren talking about, you know, I kind of suspected this. And, you know, as 25 to 30, you know, women will come out of limo,

you're bound to make real connections with a handful of those people. and, you know, Lauren said to me, hey, listen, you're going to develop feelings, but if you have any inclination of who you might pick, especially if it's early on. And again, you might have an inclination of who the person could be that can change. You're always, you try to, your best to keep your heart open. But she said, if you're going to do that, be mindful and go out of your way to protect that relationship because you won't always be able to use the excuse while I was the bachelor. So I really took that to heart, and I took that to heart all the way from night one to the very end.

And it was very helpful for me and something that I went way out of my way to do. Again, unfortunately, our relationship didn't work out. And as much as I tried to do that, and I felt like I successfully did that and was, in a lot of ways, proud of how I did it, that world is very difficult and brings a lot of challenges regardless. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's, everyone's experience in that world is different. Um, and it's just a matter of perspective. But that was probably the best, you know, real advice that I actually, you know, you get advice and you're like, yeah, great, that's, and most of your advice is generic, like follow your heart and, you know, don't overthink things. Like a lot of people tell me that because they know I tend to be an analytical person, but that, that was specific advice.

And I think I know that you kind of echoed that and I think I remember you saying you had wish you had heard that advice. as well. Not that you didn't, and everyone knows you're a very respectful person, but in that world, you can kind of get caught up in things and you're, you know, as a bachelor, there's this constant struggle of, regardless of how you're feeling, if you have really strong feelings for one person, there are other feelings you have for other people, and those feelings can get confusing. Every day is a new day with a different girl, and you can go on a date and have this really great time and feel you, make this connection, and then you have to force yourself to press the reset button that can be challenging and confusing and every lead bachelor

bachelorette otherwise has faced those challenges and so having heard that advice it just really made me prioritize and really focus on the things that mattered most to me and that was probably the most helpful information helpful advice i ever ever got yeah i mean i think that it comes i mean when when that advice was given i can sit back and remember that that was at the uh the yard house right there by the JW Mary right downtown LA. And I mean, it was really coming from a place that Lauren and I at that time really loved and cared about each other and we're trying to make it work. And we realized the things that I had done as The Bachelor that were playing a huge role

in the success and lack of success of our relationship outside of the show. And so I think it is incredibly important to lean on anybody in the past that has participated in the show. And before I bring up a specific thing that I came across, um, Hate to interrupt, but one other, the second best advice I got was also from you, and you said, obviously, interestingly enough, it might apply to this current season, but you said if you're not certain, don't propose, don't get engaged. And I think that made, you know, again, you're always taking a leap of faith in that world,

but I remember thinking about that towards the end and really questioning my feelings, but, you know, I felt so strongly for Vanessa at the time that, you know, I felt very confident in my decision to take it. It wasn't just based off the expectations of Batchanation or the show were producers. And so that was this, again, another piece of advice you gave me that is something that I took to heart and considered throughout the process. I wonder if Ari, if we had him on, if he would have felt, you know, that advice was good advice at this point. If he would have wished he would have kind of waited and processed this out. Or if he had anybody in his corner kind of telling him, hey, it is okay.

This is your love story. This is your experience. Like, we're just here to watch it. I wonder if anybody had told him, you know, do what you find or need or think is best. And if you're not certain, by no means, do you need to get down on one knee? That's not why this show exists. The show exists to find love. And if you need a little bit longer, that's okay.

Yeah, it was very interesting that, you know, R.C. just because, you know, there's a lot of choices he made that, I think you and I've discussed offline that I can't necessarily agree with or don't understand, but Ari certainly kind of did his thing. And what I mean by that is, you know, as a former bachelor, you kind of know the advice you get from producers, and they do try to give you good advice. You know, sometimes it doesn't always feel that way, but they really do. It seemed like Ari was really kind of going by his own beat, so to speak. Interestingly enough, it's like if that was the case,

why did he propose in a sense? Because if it was, he certainly did things that no one could objectively think if he was worried about what Bachelor Nation would think of him, he certainly knew he was going to get criticized. So if it was just a fear of that,

why not just wait and not propose? And, you know, again, people, you know, Juan Pablo got criticized for that, you know, what Walmac I criticized for that, but Ari didn't seem to

care about that. So, yeah, good for him. But then why not, why I propose? That was kind of an odd and it didn't quite make sense, but, you know, certainly made it for good TV.

I mean, Ashley and I got to speak with Ari half weeks of the season, and I got to learn a lot about him, but I did not talk to him before his season started. I didn't talk to him after he got announced as a bachelor.

And I don't know this, actually. Did you talk to him before his season started? Do you share advice with him? I met, I met Ari for the first time right before the season premiered, not before filming. He never reached out to you. No, never reached out to me.

I met him. He asked for advice at, you know, at that point. Interesting enough, it seems like he was struggling with his choice at that point. He didn't really elaborate that to me at the time. And I actually said to him what also I did hear from you, which ended up being true, was that as hard it is, As hard as it is to be The Bachelor and go through the season and film the season and as stressful as it is and the lack of sleep, it is either equally or if not harder post-filming while the show is airing, especially in terms of preserving the new relationship and the struggles that are going to come with it. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, I'm sure that's true when you told me that. But again, I knew what I did.

I knew what I didn't do. And I felt like I set myself up and my relationship with Vanessa up for success as much as I possibly could have. And yet, it's just such a challenge because, you know, it's, you don't know what, you know, Vanessa or Lauren are going to go through. And they're all entitled to have, you know, these feelings as a result to go through it. It takes a toll on the winner because they have to, they have to tell. themselves there need to be okay with things that they would never otherwise be okay with. And we're not, you know, just we're not even talking about stuff that goes on in the fantasy suite, just the whole process. And so it's a, it's a real challenge. And so I kind of echoed that

to Ari and said, you know, like just, you know, be prepared. It's a challenge. Not realizing he was even struggling with his decision. And it turned out to be obviously even more of a situation for him than I could have anticipated. I mean, I'd love to hear the two of yours opinion. That's the two of you's opinion. That's why I'm so impressed, confused by Lauren Burnham and Ari. I mean, she stuck by his side. And I mean, I saw, I tried this, I mean, I obviously made some really big mistakes.

And I did some things that definitely didn't set it up for success like you did, Nick. You definitely did it. And I know that you worked really hard at setting this thing up for success. I tried, but I definitely fell short of what you did. Ari fell, I think, even farther short of me, but yet, you know, he has this woman sitting next to him at the very end during the finale, and she is just as supportive as possible of him, and it looks like they are past the most difficult part,

and that surprised me. Like, because, you know, I didn't see that side of the show. I mean, the show was really hard on my relationship. Yeah, you know, it's interesting, because I've heard the criticism and the criticism off does seem fair. But again, when it comes to Ari's choices, I don't agree with a lot of how he handled things. However, having been in that world, I'm sure Ben, you would agree with this, there's no denying that he risked a lot to do what he did, regardless of you agree with how he did it

or even the fact that he did it. But if he was lukewarm on Lorne or just kind of liked her more, it wouldn't make much sense for him to do what he did. He clearly, I mean, there's, I don't know how otherwise he could really realize that, and maybe he had to go about this in this weird manner, realize that how strongly he must have felt for Lauren

because otherwise, why do, like, just ride it out with Becca and try to make it work? He clearly risked a lot. in terms of public humiliation and criticism for the chance that are at Lauren or with Lauren. And so I don't know if they're going to work out, but I thought it was a very interesting comment on Tuesday night when Molly mentioned that if she wonders if her and Jason would have worked out had he not first broke up with her and got engaged to the other woman first. because it's interesting. I wonder, with Lauren being so supportive, I feel like, in good, good credit to her that when you, again,

I don't know what it's like to win or be picked, you know, what Lauren and Vanessa had to go through. And there's some struggles there. But Lauren, Lauren got broken up with by Ari and then had that feel that heartbreak. and then she clearly loved Laura and Ari rather and once Ari came back you can say what you want but I think she decided to say listen I love this guy and I'm just going to focus on the positive and that is that I get to be with the man I love and all the other stuff I'm just going to I can't change it and so I'm going to focus what I have and you got to give Lauren a lot

of credit because and again this is not to criticize your Lauren or my Vanessa or your Lauren I say that over an essay, but it is a struggle to accept the things that happened while going through filming. And I think the winner constantly kind of struggles with that. And it becomes an ongoing discussion. And there's so many crappy conversations you have to have and our stresses. And I feel like Lauren almost kind of alleviated herself from like worrying about what ultimately is petty things. And I think every couple agrees that they end up fighting about, you know, things that really have nothing to do with their relationship. In some way, I feel like it almost is going to benefit them in that way.

It's like if they got through that, they can get through anything. Yeah, and I feel like, and again, that might change. You know, four months, five months from now, things can die down and everyone's different. You know, Lauren might have the personality where she doesn't care about that stuff and good for her. And it doesn't make other personality as bad. It takes a lot of luck in Bachelor World and a certain kind of relationship to get through some of the incredible stresses that couples have to face

that no other couples otherwise would have to I mean, Ashah, I want to ask you I mean, do you feel like your relationship with Kevin? Do you feel like you felt the pressures that a normal bachelor or bachelorette couple felt after getting off the show or was winter games, was that a different kind of experience

for you? I think the pressure I felt the most was that my doubts about the relationship naturally started happening around that two month point which in this world that's when it's almost this is like kind of when it's starting to air

so I think you're really starting to find out a lot about the person and how your life would be like in regular life outside the bubble with the person right around the time that the show starts airing and that's a lot of pressure because the fans want to see the happy ending continue in the real world

and it's just kind of like if you guys think about you know out there in the real world think about dating somebody for a little bit and then at that two-month point you're really like okay I'm starting to either see this person as a long-term partner or this is just like a short-term stepping stone and I think for us the timing's hard because there is so much fan pressure to have that happy ending especially with that after the final rose reunion shows all that you know it brings up a good point here as we were preparing for this podcast as I said I came across

something here, trying to figure out where Ari got his advice. I mean, if he didn't get it from Nick, and he didn't get it from me, and he didn't get it from Chris Dole, and who in the heck because he got his advice from? And it was pretty clear on the first episode of this season that he was going to lean on one of

America's favorite and former bachelor, Sean Lowe. And I found this quote from Sean Lowe preparing for this, and it says, Sean Lowe says that every bachelor has called him after the bachelor finale for advice.

Sean also adds that not one bachelor has fully taken his advice. I never called him. I don't think I called him either. He showed up to both of your premieres, though. How does that feel to have these guys being like, I know what I'm doing here? Well, it was interesting because you know that always happens, right? You know that usually they do that every season.

And I remember going to producers. I'm like, I bet you guys we're going to do this, right? They're like, yeah, we're going to do this. And I'm like, great. I would love to see Chris and Ben. Don't invite Sean. I'll just put it out there. And I made a bet to the producers.

I said, I bet you a million dollars that Sean gives me no advice, but he goes out of his way to remind everyone that not everyone loves me. you know he and he did he took like I think they aired it he's like well I like you but you know not everyone in Batonation is your biggest fan I'm like thank you for reminding me uh

yeah thanks and it was just like I I think I won an actual 100 bucks from my producer so I know it wasn't planted but um yeah yeah I didn't I did not ask for his advice certainly post show

uh I don't know what advice I didn't take from him, but I'm glad it's working out for him. Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, I'm sure, I'm all glad. We don't want anything bad about this, but I took offense to this comment. Personally, I did. It's a little annoying to hear, I'll agree. Yeah, it doesn't sit easy with me to have somebody sitting there. I mean, Nick, if you were to sit there and go, yeah,

you know, I knew what Ben should have done, he just didn't listen to me. I mean, I'm sorry, but nobody. Even my closest friends and my family knows the full picture of what happened in my relationship that made it not work out or nobody knows what Lauren and I did to try to make it work out exactly I'm reading this and it hurts it did it doesn't it doesn't hurt I mean it just I guess it's annoying well I mean let's be be real what it is it's a it's a really presumptuous presumptuous and fairly arrogant to say so what do you think Ari did do you think Ari took his advice do you think Ari was leaning on him for

advice? I don't know. I don't know Ari and well Ari was on the podcast and he said that he talked to I mean Ari was on the podcast but but Sean was on the podcast when you weren't here and he said he did not ask him advice about specifically the switcheroo because Sean had no idea the switcheroo was coming sure I mean it's I know for example like Sean has been it's again every situation is different as you say Ben

Sean has been ever since he was on it very outspoken about his experience on dancing with the stars and the challenges it brought to their relationship interestingly enough Sean and I had the same partner I've heard stories

and that's not to say you know again every relationship is different for all the challenges that Vanessa and I had our experience post filming The show itself, Bachelor, was probably the most toxic part. And that's not to blame the show. It's just that's this inevitable.

In fact, dancing for us was a huge lift for us. The challenges that Sean and Catherine had from dancing, we didn't have. Vanessa was awesome in terms of being supportive on dancing. I think for both of us, it was a really great new break from Bachelor World. And it was, you know, Vanessa had been willing to come out to L.A. And we moved in together. And so she made a lot of friends on dancing. And it was just an incredibly great experience.

And it really gave us a nice little boost. Now, again, that doesn't make us right or wrong. But it sometimes is frustrating to hear because it wasn't a positive experience for Sean to just assume that it will never be for otherwise. And then, again, it's very easy to like, well, Nick did Dancing with the Stars. and Vanessa and Nick broke up and apparently Nick and Vanessa didn't pray to God as much as Sean and Catherine did. You know, you're a very religious person, Ben. I grew up very religious and still have a strong faith, but I don't maybe talk about it as much.

So that can be frustrating sometimes because I think, you know, Ben and I have talked about this. I'm incredibly envious and jealous of how lucky Sean and Catherine have been, And that's awesome that they have worked out. And I'm sure, I think I've heard Sean mention how lucky is that Catherine showed up. And I'm glad to see him say that because it takes a lot of luck. I mean, it's not easy. And it's really cool that they've been able to work out. And sometimes it's a little frustrating to hear that person act like they just did it better than everyone else.

I don't know. I mean, you know, I think you're spot on. I think that's what, man, I know, I mean, I know my personal experience. Like, we fought. Like, we fought hard to make this thing work. And we gave it everything we could. And it does. I mean, I think there isn't a formula.

There isn't a cookie cutter formula to how this thing works and how it doesn't work. I mean, your relationship is unique and my relationship is unique. And the one thing we can do is, lean on friends for support and advice when it's given, but just to sit out for anybody. And I think fans of the show do this. You can see it on social media. You know, you could see it when Ari's season was rapping. For anybody to sit out there and claim that they know best, most of the time those people

don't. And I think that's where I just get, maybe just offended is, hey, you have no clue how hard we work that make you trying to make this relationship work bachelor or not if we take the bachelor out of it this is a real relationship sure yeah just like I know it was for you yeah I mean I think I mean both of us we talked to a lot of friends I think I know both of us we all we we sought professional relationship counseling and and things like that it's yeah and I think it's because it's it is personal and I think there's a lot of personal sadness when it doesn't work out.

You invest so much, and then you have to kind of admit that maybe it's best for everyone to just as much as there's love there to let each other go. It sucks to read things. And again, I have to, you know, I knew that, you know,

I was pursuing acting before I was asked to be The Bachelor. I knew that because I wanted to do dancing with the stars and the fact that I was out in L.A. and continuing to pursue that post-show, I was going to set my sense, self up for potential criticism of wanting to be famous or caring more about my career than my relationship with Vanessa. And that's something that I had to just accept. Vanessa was always,

again, very supportive of that and was really a great in terms of supporting my ambitions and hopefully I was for her. But yeah, it can be hurtful because a lot of people do make assumptions. Sometimes things don't work out because sometimes two people can love each other and just not be really good at bringing out the best in the other person. Sometimes there's compatibility issues and, you know, you can really care for someone and just not be great at being the best fit for them and vice versa. And that happens. It happens a lot in relationships. and I think we all just hope that we're lucky enough to meet that person who does it for us, and then we can all be happy.

I mean, Nick, as usual, and it's what's typical here, you speak truth and you speak it a relatable way, and I think one thing that has always been helpful with me is the just truthful, honest advice that you've given not only to me, but just, you know, as a bachelor or as I've walked through this experience and also your critiques of me and your honest, just your honest feedback. But I think that's how this world works and operates.

You heard it with Ashley and Kevin a little bit ago is where the two of them are so close to each other and they know they're going to live in this world together where they're going to be talked about publicly that the best way to do is to support each other through the thick and the thin. And it's what we hope with Ari. You know, for all this being said,

for any advice we've been given or any advice that we haven't been given post-Bachelor, One thing we can tell Ari is we wish him the best. I mean, he might not have done it perfect. None of us did. But we hope that Ari's relationship stands the test of time. And one way we can take our time is by checking out movement watches. Nick and Ashley, I know you have heard us talk about movement.

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but it tells you time and it looks good doing it movement watches start at just ninety five dollars at a department store you're looking at 400 to 500 bucks movement figured out that by selling online they're able to cut out the middleman and retail markup providing the best possible price classic design quality construction and style of minimalism get 15% off today that's even a better value than what we said before. So get 15% off the day with free shipping and free returns by going to mvmt.com slash almost famous. See why movement keeps growing. Check out their expanding collection. Go to mvmt.com slash almost famous. Join the movement. We all need to. Now, Ben, I know that you have to go. So I'm going to take over with Nick now and do some

listener emails. Hey, that sounds awesome. Nick. Again, thank you for coming on. Thanks for being a good friend. Ashley, I'm wishing you the best. I'll talk to you soon. Keep your head out, girl. Thank you. Hey, buddy. Talk to you later.

Hey, bye, guys. Nick, are you ready to do some relationship questions? Sure, why not? People love relationship advice from you. I don't. Yes, they do. I mean, like, I know. Who are these people?

He may not have the best track record publicly. However, you have great relationship advice. Thanks. You're welcome. Backhanded compliment. So, Nick, last week we had an amazing email, a juicy one from this girl named Anonymous. Was it, yeah, was it amazing or juicy? Well, it was juicy for us.

And, like, probably a horrible situation for her to be in personally. So basically. Can you summarize? Yes, she's been in a wonderful relationship for five years. She really adores. What's the problem? Okay. The problem is that there's this guy that she found, I think he may be at work, she has a mad crush on him.

and stop thinking about him and she's thinking, what do I do? Should I not be having these feelings if it's right with my boyfriend? Or is it natural to have a crush? So we got a ton of emails back about this. And yeah, there are two schools of thought. Some people think, oh, this is totally human nature to develop a crush when you've been in a five-year relationship. Like, it's just a crush, ignore it and be true to your man.

And the other half are saying, if you're feeling these kinds of feelings, it's obviously not right with your boyfriend. What do you think? I think it is natural to, you know, I'm not a big believer, as I've mentioned before, that there's a one only for anyone. I think it's very easy for people to be attracted to multiple people in a lot of different ways. It could be a physical attraction, could be an emotional connection. And obviously the beauty of being with someone in an exclusive relationship is that choice of saying no to those temptations

that are going to be constant, especially in a world like we have today where things like social media and people's short attention spans make temptation that more prevalent. But I guess it's just a matter of how much we indulge in it. I mean, I don't even dismiss the fact that this person went out of their way to write you guys

as much as they might seek the advice of Ben and Ashley. Sure, but I mean, it takes some, actual, I mean, this person is down a rabbit hole in terms of... They are suffering. They're going anywhere for advice. So, you know, you just kind of... I think when it comes to things like temptation, the mature thing to do, the right thing to do is it's one thing to have temptation.

You can't help but be attracted to people. Doesn't mean you're in love with them. Doesn't mean you're going to act in any of those temptations. But you can be drawn to all sorts of people. You can be drawn to the people of the same sex. without it being any type of romantic. You know, there's always things that attract us to other people. When it comes to, you know, romantic involvement,

again, I think it's the mature thing to do is to not act on it, to not indulge in it, to not, you know, pine on the thought of this person. The fact that this person is wondering, you know, what should I do? I think there's something there that they might need to explore because maybe their, quote, unquote, amazing relationship isn't so amazing. So, you know, it's hard to say with... Case by case basis, I think? Well, it's hard to say with such little information.

I would love to kind of ask questions about this person's amazing relationship and find out if it is, in fact, amazing. But the law, you know, I think it just comes down to, it's one thing to have sensations and to be attracted to people in whatever way. It's quite another to act on it. And sometimes we play with fire and sometimes we get burnt. Well, speaking about, you know, emotionally cheating, this is an email from Katie in response to Anonymous's email. She says, Hey, Ben and Ashley, love the podcast and not normally want to email in, but after hearing Ashley read the anonymous email, I had to write in. For anyone who feels similar to Anonymous in a long-term relationship but has feelings for another

person, emotional cheating is still cheating, and it can be more hurtful than a one-night stand. You're opening yourself up intimately to another person, sharing parts of your self, that should be reserved for your partner. Please don't think that sending friendly messages to a person you have feelings for is innocent. Or not an... Do we know that this person is doing that? No, I think Katie's jumping the gun here.

I don't think that Anonymous is emotionally cheating. She just seems to be like kind of admiring more from afar. She continues to say, if that message couldn't be in a group message with your significant other, it should not be done at all. I mean, I agree in the sense that, again, we can't help who we sometimes thoughts pop in our head. Yeah. But, you know, again, that emotional cheating comes in when that person's like, well, I'm, I would never cheat.

I would never, you know, hook up with someone. But then they, you know, they might send a text, be like, what's up, you know? Hey, it was good to see you today or whatever. They just kind of keep that, that dialogue open. And again, they're playing with fire. And maybe that stops there. maybe that person responds back and all of a sudden they're grabbing coffee together just as quote unquote friends or whatever or maybe they start hanging out more and those things escalate even

further so it just depends on how much anyone person's going to kind of act on again these emotions and and do anything I think what Katie's referring to right now is what I said I think I don't know she's not married to her five-year boyfriend maybe she needs to just get to know this guy a little bit more to make sure that it's just an infatuation and not really something that she wants to be. Well, no, I don't. It's confirmed that she doesn't really want to be with this guy. I disagree. Yeah.

I think the right and noble thing to do that if she has any doubt whatsoever that this current relationship isn't the one for her. No, but she thinks the current relationship is the one for her. Well, it doesn't sound like she's so sure. I think maybe she should take a step back, try to distance her thoughts from this guy and really be honest with herself and explore this current relationship. And I think if she's going to be in this relationship and at any point, she should really, you know, take a look in the mirror and really, instead of just casually being,

I'm an amazing relationship, maybe it was amazing. Maybe she's, a lot of times people are in relationships and if they're in a long term relationship, they, most of the strength of the relationship is often like kind of built on the first six months of it, right? that honeymoon phase. And that happens with a lot of relationships, but sometimes people will be in a year, year and a half, two years' relationship,

and they'll have some problems. And they stay together, they love each other, and they're used to each other, and they're comfortable with each other. But most of the good doesn't happen anymore. It only happened in the first five months, but maybe they like the way they look together.

Maybe they've just told themselves, this is who I'm going to end up with. And sometimes people realize they're not really happy, you know, but they will outwardly, when they talk oh i love my boyfriend i love my girlfriend yeah maybe that's not the case you know there is a reason why um you are so drawn to someone i think there's a big difference between you know walking down the street or going into work and and seeing someone at the opposite success sex um and saying wow that that's that's that's an attractive person and they're charming and you know boy if i were if i were single that

what a catch you know that's that that can happen but this person is not doing this person is knowing, they're obsessing, they're pining. And there's a reason for that. And I doubt it's just because this other person's so fantastic. There's probably something going on in their current relationship that they're just, they're not being honest with themselves about. So I would say, explore that first, do the right thing. And don't make it, don't be a monkey swinging from one branch to another.

Focus on the relationship that you're in. Just to play devil's advocate. Don't you feel like there's so many couples out there that like were strongly with somebody and then they didn't realize that like the love of their life would be even grander when they just came along and of course they came along while they were still with the other person sure that can happen but again do the right thing which that's not an excuse to emotionally cheat or otherwise yes yes to tip your toes in a different pond to see if you like the temperature okay so you're like you got a complete one before going on together obviously you know

that's what adults do yes thank you yes um this one's one from Taylor. Don't be Ari. Yeah, that's very accurate. From Taylor. I was listening to the podcast and my heart dropped when I heard the anonymous email and I had to share my story. I dated my high school sweetheart for seven years, even though through four of those years we were going to different colleges. However, our last year together, I started to develop a crush on a guy that I met on a spring break trip my senior year and I decided that I just couldn't continue my current relationship. I knew it wasn't fair that he was all in and I was only half in. So I left the person I had loved for seven years. It was so hard to explain, but to this day, I still can't

explain it. There was nothing wrong about him, nothing I would have changed about him, but in my heart, I just knew it wasn't right. Two years later, I am happily engaged to my soulmate, and I couldn't be happier. It is not the crush from Spring Break, but somebody knew. I just want this girl to know that she's not the only one who has been in the situation, and that there might not even be anything truly wrong with her relationship. I just searched for months to find a reason why things didn't work and I felt extremely guilty for hurting someone who I thought was I thought so highly of. I finally had to just forgive myself, be confident in my decision, and God's plan for me. Sometimes your heart just knows that God has someone out there for you. That being said,

I will also advise her to not think long and hard about it. Oh, advise her to think hard and long about it and be prepared that in no way will it be easy if she does decide to leave her boyfriend into five years. Well, yeah. I mean, short answer, yeah, you know, my very first relationship when I, we dated off and on for seven years. Part of first relationships is you just don't know anything else, you know, it was so hard for me to get over my first love because I didn't, I didn't know what I was like to love anyone else in that way. And yeah, some, it's, especially it's not 1950 anymore, you know, Back in the day, you would meet someone in your early 20s,

you'd fall in love and be like, well, let's get married. It's just a different time. And so again, with just the way society is for better or worse, sometimes most people don't end up with their first loves anymore. That's probably a good thing because we mature and grow as individuals. I think people now mature later in life. They mature more in their 20s than they think they did back then. And you can love someone.

and have them not be the one. And sometimes it's maybe better to, you know, let something go and see if it's really worth coming back. You know, that old saying, if you love something, set it free, so to speak. There's some truth to that. So, yeah, I mean, do we know how old anonymous is, by the way? I think she's in her 20s. You know, like, dating.

I mean, when you get older, the good part about dating is you, through failed relationships, have a better idea of what you want. you know the the bad part about that is things become less romantic in a way when you're young you fall in love you're like I love you let's get let's date right you know when you're older I think you it's like well I've dated someone like this before I've dated like someone this before it's harder to just fall in love overnight you know I used to be someone who fell really quickly and now for me it's harder because I'm more objective because I've just I've been in you know a handful of relationships where I don't just jump in and when you're younger it's like it's so easy to

become infatuated is that like from fear of being heartbroken I don't really believe in that I don't get that fear I don't have that no I mean it's not a fear of being heartbroken it's more of a you're just you know more and you're kind of almost in a way it sounds almost unromatched I think you you've the the excitement or the uh there is something that's missing when you you get older when you're younger you just don't know it's like you meet someone you're like this is what is this feeling i know this is great i have a whole i don't get a podcast about that feeling and how it you kind of stop feeling it no matter who comes into your life exactly when you get older you're like 23 you're like wait i miss that like seeing my crush in the hallway feeling i can't replicate it these

days it's harder it's it's it's the benefit of having perspective i think it's important to have perspective but sometimes perspective makes life a little less fun yeah You know, because you... The butterflies, they're not as big anymore. The idea, I think, is hopefully that you, if you ever are lucky enough to get those butterflies as you gain perspective in life, that it will become more genuine and long-lasting.

But I think, you know, as you gain more perspective and maturity, it's, you might have the initial butterflies, but then there's that, you know, thought in your head that's, well, I mean, is this really what I think it is? or, you know, I've had this feeling before and this person, boy, they sure, they sure are similar to that other person, you know, kind of thing. You take a step back and you're, you know, when you're younger, you're just like, let's do this. You know, you just kind of fall. You have more, you have less reservations and less inhibitions or more.

Is it more inhibition? Less. I don't know. Yeah. And when you get across, you're like, oh, yay, fun. Instead of like, oh, man, where is this going to go? Yeah. all right so we have a question that just through skimming through it seems like it was almost directed at you nick to answer this is from Lauren hey Ben and Ashley love the podcast thanks for being my entertainment during my two hour daily commute darn girl that's long I was curious to see what your thoughts were about why Becca agreed to be the bachelorette honestly if it were me I would feel betrayed by the producers for ambushing me with cameras during the relationship

during the breakup. Not to mention, there were producers asking her in the interview before Ari got there if she was in love with him and how she felt about the ring. And those producers knew exactly what was going to happen. I know that it's the producer's job to make entertaining TV, but I just don't see how Becca could say yes to being the bachelorette after producers betrayed her like that. I would feel like they would have not been having my best interest at heart. You two always say that producers are good people. So I'd love. like to know what you think is a justification for filming the breakup. We know Ari's side, just wondering what made the producers think that this was a good idea. Thank you for your

insight. Lauren S, not B. Hey, hey, Nick, you've had some very rough experiences. You got down on one knee. Well, twice almost, yeah, never. Technically never. Technically never, but like you were about to lean down. With Vanessa, I did. But yes. But yes. I didn't pick out a ring with Andy. And And yes, I was prepared with Caitlin. Obviously, you know, we have been in Bachelor World. We have a lot of friends who are producers. That's not to say that both of us and Ben haven't had our frustrations with the show. It's a different world.

A lot of people had some strong opinions about the finale and the filming of the breakup. People tend to always overreact. I always find it funny. Other people, including a lot of people who are part of Bachelor Nation are tweeting about how this is terrible for them to film, yet they're all watching it. Um, you know, we, no one, I know, right. It was, I mean, if you were to read Twitter, it was if the bachelor was airing someone being murdered or something. I mean, it is, it was a fairly outrageous reaction to, well, something a little bit personal, you know, and it's an interesting

world. Again, well, Becca seemed to be okay with it. She's now the bachelor's. There's a couple, whether you agreed, I mean, I certainly have some thoughts on it, right? I go for it. Whether you agreed with the producers or Ari for doing what they did. And certainly, it's easy to criticize some aspects. There's a couple facts that I think you can't argue. One is last Monday before the premiere, I think the general thought of Becca was Bachelor Nation liked her. It was like, she's nice. She seems like a sweet girl. She didn't have a ton of air time and everyone liked her. On Tuesday morning, everyone loved her. Everyone was obsessed with her. And rightfully so, because she handled a very difficult situation with a lot of poise and maturity

and class and strength. And everyone, you know, kind of felt for her. And, you know, I'm assuming Becca woke up Tuesday morning feeling pretty good about herself. And she should. And, you know, it's weird because in that world, sometimes the show will do things that in the moment you will feel betrayed by them and you will feel hurt. And it will have a personal impact on your life only to later realize that, well, it might have sucked to go through. you appreciate some of the fallout of that. And Becca, I'm sure, is no different. And then I had the same experience on Caitlin's season.

You know, when I, I won't get into the details, but, you know, obviously I showed up on Caitlin's season simply because of a pre-existing relationship we had. And from the moment I showed up on Caitlin's season, there were a lot of things that went down between her and I off-camera that were said or that happened, that continue to give me more and more confidence. And I remember throughout the process, a lot of which was off camera, constantly telling Caitlin, listen, you know I'm only here for you.

So if you don't end up with me, please just send me home as soon as possible. Now, obviously, that didn't happen. She took me all the way to the end up into the point where I asked her father's permission to get engaged. I picked out a ring. I planned a whole speech. I delivered that speech. And then right before I got down on my knees, she broke up with me. Now, in the moment, I was hurt. I was incredibly angry at Caitlin. And, you know, I remember feeling all this anger. And I remember some of the producers, you know, saying, listen, don't be angry with her.

Obviously, I knew the producers had probably encouraged her to take it that far. And it was all said and done. The reality is, is that if Caitlin had. not taken me that far. I probably would never would have been the Bachelor. In a lot of ways, the way I handled the breakup and was probably the first time people kind of had a lot of empathy for you. It was kind of the first moment that Bachelor Nation started changing their opinion of me, not everyone, but how I handled that, you know, that moment when they saw my foot come on a limo and then just the way I handled the breakup, I want a lot of people over. And that was kind of the launching

pet into paradise. And, you know, certainly I didn't feel that at the time. And I certainly, it took a long time for things to play out. But I realized that by Caitlin doing that, she gave me one of my best moments. And had she say sent me home week six, I just would have been remembered is the villain from Andy season who showed up like a few other people did before. And they quickly dismissed. And I would have been an afterthought. And people wouldn't have thought much of me um and so really hurtful moments for you on tv end up being your best moments in the long run and it gets you in a place that you would have preferred to be in um and if without that moment generally i've never gotten there generally everyone's best moment in bachelor nation minus a few

exceptions is when you get dumped yeah almost almost always i agree because that's when the audience really connects with you yeah all right well you know what nick it's always fab to have you here it's also fun and then you are fit and you know who else is fab and fit and fun Chloe Kardashian Bethany Frankel Martina McBride

Ashley Tisdale Ashley Simpson Nikki Reed and Iisha Curry they all love FabFit fun and you need to add your own name to that list the spring box is available now so sign up before they sell out and guys they sell out like crazy fast

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I love eye masks. Then there's a lip palette. Murad, skin perfecting lotion. Murad is so high quality that you are. getting it in this box that is worth so much more than you're getting it for. For us, you're going to get your box for $39.99 because you're saving $10 when you use our code almost famous. So I want you to head over to fabfitfund.com. Use our code almost famous and you can send $10 off your first box making it only $39.99. Again, it is fabfitfund.com. Use our code

almost famous and treat yourself to this amazing four times a year gift. Thank you guys so much for listening. Keep those emails coming. It is Ben and Ashley at iHeartMedia.com. Thanks to our guest, Nick and Kevin Went. And thank you to our sponsors, FabFit Fun, Movement Watches, Latote, Quip, and SmartSweets. Go to iTunes, leave us a review, and we'll be back very soon. I've been Ashley. What? I'm Nick. Yeah. What's up? I've been Nick. It's proper. Oh, I've been Nick? Yes. Not anymore? Can I change? my name? This is fun. Goodbye, guys.

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