The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - S8 E6 Getting into It with Ashley Spivey and Tanner Tolbert

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

Ashley Spivey sits down with Ben and Ashley for an honest and raw discussion about her Twitter encounter with Ben. We find out exactly what motivates her, and how she got started as an unofficial “Bachelor investigative journalist”. Then Tanner Tolbert checks in, and talks about his role as officiant for Ashley’s wedding, and he spills about when Jared came to him about his decision to propose to Ashley. And we talk to a legal expert to break down what’s happening with Jenna and Jordan and the lawyers! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. What a big podcast we have coming up, Ash. I'm a little nervous because you had a very, I almost want to say life-altering conversation with a Bachelor alum a week and a half ago. I wasn't here last week, but you briefly brought it up. You had a little bit of a Twitter war with Ashley Spivey? I think it's fair to say life-altering. It feels life altering. It hasn't left my mind since it's happened in both good and bad ways. Yeah, I think you're spot on. Okay. Well, if people don't know, Ashley Spivey was on Brad Walmack season, which is the first season I started watching. And while she hasn't been like a big, you know, she didn't make a big splash on her season. She certainly made a big splash on Twitter over the past couple years. She's worked hand in hand with reality, Steve,

lot and has broken a lot of stories in Bachelor Nation, including the whole Garrett controversy and his liked Instagrams. And now she has tweeted at you something, I want to say it's kind of political. It's something about, well, Ben, why don't you explain what she went after you with last week? It's, it's pretty holistic, actually, as we think about it. So last week, there, There's just a lot right now. And I don't know if in today's age, I think we can throw around words and we can get stuck in things and say, oh, in today's age, we're more divisive than ever, not only in religion, but politics and faith and friend groups, whatever, it just feels like there's a lot of divisiveness.

And I think at some level that is true, but we've always had divisiveness, right? You go back to the Civil War. There's been divisiveness. The country was against each other. And so what I can control is kind of what I believe is the solution. to this divisiveness. And so I was laying in bed on, let's see here. I think it was Saturday morning because I was also laying in bed when I saw these sweets.

Yeah, it was 1011, 2018. And I tweeted the only thing I know, and I think anybody out of listening might understand where I'm coming from on this. But as a Christian, I believe that Christianity has been terribly represented in recent years. I believe that we no longer are focusing on how to accept love and support people. and serve people well, but instead somehow evangelicals have been associated with pushing people aside, hating on people, bigotry, and supporting almost injustice. It's weird to me, but I know Jesus wouldn't stand for it. And so I was sitting in bed, I was like, how do I, as a Christian, confront the darkness and the divisiveness that feels like is existing in our world today? And I did a tweet.

It says, we all believe a bunch of different things, referring pretty much to my faith and my background. And we all have our incredibly valid reasons for that. But then I said, no matter what you believe, can we all agree that light conquers darkness? And I said, darkness equals hate, bigotry, injustice, inequality, et cetera. Those things will never conquer the light. And I believe this. I still believe this to this day. I believe that the only way to confront evil and to really solve the most evil questions that we have in the world today is by sharing light, by shedding light, by showing love, by showing kindness, by sacrificing almost everything for the sake of service and love. So, yeah, I mean, I read that and I was like, oh, that's a nice

little message of hope. You know, it's a nice inspirational thing to read today. Yeah, on Twitter. The best I can do on Twitter. And I believe this. But not everyone thought that statement was as simple as I did. Not everybody did. Ashley Spivey was one of those. She tweeted back and she said this, I cannot quote her quote verbatim because it has been deleted, but it said it referred to me coming from a place of white privilege. And I can't help where I came from. I can't help that I'm white. I can't help that my dad has done very well for himself. And I'm really proud of him for that. And I can't help that a lot of these situations that I'm talking about, I don't understand. But what I do know is my job is to support people in Honduras and in Africa and here in the United States who have been a part of injustices, who have had less opportunities than I have.

My job is to try and find ways to relate to their situation so that we can come up with sustainable solutions to help their lives increase, get to a better place. And so I don't think I was the right target for this. There's not a lot of things I would say I do well. One of those things is one of the things in life I do do well is at least attempting to understand people who maybe aren't as fortunate as I have been. I do think I do that all right. I think you do a fantastic job with it. You and Ashley actually got on the phone after a couple back and forth messages on Twitter. And while you have talked before, we're also going to have her come on the podcast today.

And you're going to talk it out a little bit more and explain to people what you guys have learned about each other. You're spot on, Ashley. And I, you know, we have talked, uh, mostly about the tweets and about the situation, but we've saved a lot for this podcast. I think when it comes to actionable steps, when it comes to ways for me to be able to get involved, for anybody out there listening to get involved for really the details of where this comes, comes from, from Ashley's things we haven't talked about yet. We really wanted to speak publicly, and the reason we want to do that is because as we were continuing to talk afterwards on the phone, it felt like we could understand each other more, but this is something that needs to be spread to a platform. And what better platform than the almost famous podcast, because we have listeners who care.

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And in prep for the filming of the show, because, I mean, if I'm only going to be, on a couple times. I've got to make sure to look good while doing it. I literally was sticking bioclarity all over my face the last two weeks. I look a little better for screen time. Wait, let's see your face. It's actually pretty smooth. I know, Amy. Really good. Floorlux bio clarity's unique ingredients. What is it? Floorlux is a clever form of chlorophyll. It's proven for nourishing the skin, soothing weight, imperfections, and blemishes. Floorlux has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties. that feed your skin from the outside end.

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BioClarity.com. Our listeners will get their first month for 50% off. A routine plus shipping is free. And it comes with 100% risk free, money back guarantee, but you need to enter our code. Famous. That's bioclarity.com. Enter our code famous today. Hey, Ashley, Ikenetti. Yeah. Before we bring on Ashley SpyVie, I do have one question because we have a busy podcast today. Huge guests coming on. Are Asaibu's good for you? Yes, they are. They are good for you.

I can't say I've really ever had one though. But I am trying to take care of my insides a little bit better. Like you're trying to take care of your outsides a little bit better. Yeah. We have been away from L.A. for like 12 days now. And I've just been eating like crap. I couldn't wait to come home and cook some home cooking with Blue Apron. Blue Apron, their mission is.

to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone. This is how it works. You're going to choose from chef designed recipes, and they're going to deliver fresh, seasonally inspired ingredients, and you're going to be able to cook these meals in as little as 20 minutes. Blue Apron does the meal prep for you, and you get dinner in 20 minutes. It's pretty amazing.

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Blue Apron has a choice and a range of recipes for you. So check out this week's menu and get your first three meals for free. A home-cooked meal sounds so good right now. I'm starving. And it just really means. makes the difference me too and i like the way that these are seasonally inspired so you're going to get like fall recipes for fall like pumpkin and squash and all that good stuff so you can check out this week's menu and get your first three meals for free at blue apron dot com slash almost famous

that's first three meals for free guys why wouldn't you do that it's blue apron dot com slash almost famous for your first three meals for free blue apron a better way to cook i like that one actually you're you killing it there I meant it, though. I feel like nowadays, and this is no longer about Blue Apron, it kind of is, I guess. Everything you eat that you think is good for you is actually bad for you at some level. Like Asai Boles. I was in getting an Asai Boll this morning.

Somebody in line go, I was like, oh, I just needed something healthy. They had the ability, hmm, really want to just this could be an angry podcast. Is your mouth watering? A little bit. They looked at me and they said, you realize this has more sugar than pot. Oh, really? And I was like, you got to be joking me. Like, I literally came all the way.

I drove 10 minutes to get an Acey bowl because I was trying to look healthy, feel healthy, be healthy. And you're going to ruin this for me, little person who's standing in front of me who's really going to make me angry before a podcast. I don't know if anything's healthy anymore. I know Blue Apron tries really hard. Nothing is, like, healthy unless you're eating raw broccoli, you know? There's something wrong with everything. But Blue Apron's going to really try your best to make something tasty and healthy. I know. Anyways.

Anyway, we're about to get deep now. Ashley Spivey's about to come on. And I just want to let you know that at the end of this podcast, we are also going to be talking about the disappearance of Wills. Wills, that's right. Not Wells, Wills. And then we're going to have Tanner Tolbert come on to talk about how he's officiating the wedding. And some of you out there.

My arch nemesis. Yeah, some of you are mad at me because I had once upon a time said something like Ben was going to officiate. But now Tanner is, we're going to talk about that later. But first up, we're going to talk to Ashley Spivey. Ashley, are you out there? I am. Ashley Spivey, thank you for joining the Almost Famous Podcast. Of course. Thanks for having me.

Hey, Ashley. Hi, my co-host, Ashley, I, Kennedy is sitting in studio as well. We really are thrilled to have you. We've had a ton of responses this week since kind of announcing that you and I would be talking on this podcast this week. I've already introduced who you are, how people know you, and then also the situation at hand. So I think it's best if we just dive into this. I really want to hear when you read my tweet, what kind of set you off? And I want you to be as open and honest.

You and I have talked this through, but I want you to be as open as honest as possible because I think the fans and the listeners of this really kind of need to relate with your emotions and why you decided to tweet me? For sure. And first of all, I just want to say thank you for even having me on after what did happen on Twitter. I do hope that me talking about it, at least for providing some background, will kind of help people know where my head was at. When I read your tweet, I had just come off particularly Ross three weeks with the Kavanaugh

hearings and everything like that, it was very triggering to me as a sexual assault survivor. I'm not sure if y'all have ever heard me talk about it or read me talk about it or me talking about it, but I, in college, kind of experienced something similar to Dr. Ford. I went to the college of my dreams. I was drunk at a fraternity event and raped. I, you know, I don't remember anything that happened, luckily, but I do know that it happened due to some witnesses' account and the way I felt the next day. I'm pretty sure anyone out there who has been raped to tell you, you definitely know the next day.

So how to explain this? My feelings on the matter are definitely impacted by the situation that I went through. Going to that school, I had a full scholarship. I was very excited to go there for the next four years of the school. life. After that way I was robbed of that experience because I no longer felt safe in that environment. I became very sick. I became very depressed. I decided to leave that school due to everything that happened. And my dad was also an alumni of that college as well. he became pretty upset at me due to me leaving because I think, you know, I was kind of continuing on in his dreams, you know.

But I decided to leave a school. He became pretty upset at me. I felt like I could never tell him kind of what happened just because I wasn't ready to tell anyone at that point. And I didn't want him to know what had happened to me. And probably about a year and a half later, he passed away without me being able. Sorry, I'm trying to hold on. You're right. Without me being able to tell him why I left.

And he was always just very upset and confused. I think about me leaving. I'm so sorry, actually. This is such a sad story. No, and I don't even want all to think I'm telling you this story for sympathy, but I want people to know that when women were going through the past months, just with everything that's been going on, it's been triggering. And when I saw you talk about light and darkness, I just, I find it hard. to look for the light in this type of situation. And with everything that went on, it just seems like the darkness is consuming.

And I think when I'm angry or when anyone is angry, they do not pick their words well. And I think that I did cross a couple of lines and the things that I said, I don't apologize for my anger, but I apologize for the way that I worded things, and I apologize for my misdirected rage. But I just hope that in sharing that with y'all, you understand where I'm coming from, and also in sharing my story, which I think is important to do in Bachelor Nation, And just because a large majority of the audience is women, women under 30, who are the people that are experiencing the most situations of sexual assault.

I think it's important to share these stories and for our audience to know that there are allies out there for them. And there are people who they can talk to if they have experienced kind of a similar situation. You know, this is, and again, we talked about the background of everything. And, you know, Ashley did something incredible after these tweets kind of blew up. And she sent me an Instagram message and just asked if we could talk in the phone. because at that point it had gotten out of control and I was being compared to people that I hope to never be compared with and associated with people that I hope to never be associated with and I think at that point Ashley you had seen that and thought this was something that we needed to talk about together and so and so we talked in the phone and all I all I really want to do is hear where Ashley was coming from similar to what just happened there to hear her story and she wanted to hear mine and what we realize is we both Ashley has been a victim and I have somebody that's one of the closest people in my lives who is also a victim of sexual assault and rape and it has affected her life for a really

long time and and it's an odd scenario when somebody doesn't feel like there's a place to talk about it. It carries a burden that is something. that allows some asshole to control you for too long. And so talking to Ashley, we realize we're on the same team. And that's why I wanted to have her on this podcast this year. She's angry. She's pissed off. And yes, it came towards me.

And I'm not happy with her about that. She knows that. Yeah. But it's allowed us the, it's allowed us now the platform to speak about it. And so I wanted Ashley to come on here and have a platform because almost famous listeners, you are, you're incredible listeners. You have really strong opinions. You engage in our conversations every time, no matter if we're talking about The Bachelor or we're talking about something that's actually really serious. And so Ashley, I want to now spend time now that we're both in the same team, you realize that I'm really unhappy that I was.

associated to anything happening in this world, but I'm also really glad now we have the platform to talk about it. I want to spend some time just asking you a few questions for anybody out there listening to this podcast saying, hey, I've been there also. I can relate. I want to just have you take some time to be their advocate. So Ashley, based on your situation, what advice do you give to any young person out there struggling as a victim of sexual assault? My first piece of advice would be to talk to someone, whether it's a friend, a family member, a therapist. You don't have to be in this situation alone and you don't have anything to be ashamed of. It is in no way your fault what happened to you.

The sooner you try to deal with the issues that are going to arise from this traumatic event, the easier it will be to heal from this trauma. You definitely don't have to suffer alone. I know that sometimes it can be hard to tell friends or family members. Like, I mean, I still haven't necessarily even had a conversation with my mom about it, just because even at this point, it seems just too hard. But I have been able to speak with a therapist for years. I have been able to talk to my friends. My husband is very, very supportive.

So definitely talk about it. It helps. We're going to at the end of this little segment, Ashley and I have, we want to focus some attention on a couple of the organizations out there that you can talk to. We've picked those out and I'll explain those in a little bit. But to continue to kind of dive into this a little bit, Ashley, we've, you know, my tweet, as mentioned before, was focused on being the light in a dark world and trying to shine a light. in some dark places, I do still strongly believe that that is the only way to overcome evil is with good and with light. And I know that you have some more tangible, you know, because I think one of their biggest

complaints to me, and I get it, was that they're very big fluffy words I was starting around, right? That can, that just seem like they're coming from a place of not hurt, of not understanding of unrelatedability. And I think once we talk, you realize that maybe could not personally. relate but I know somebody very close to me that can and so those words were not light you know they have a meaning behind them and I want to hear from you what are some ways when you say heal from this situation what are some ways that you've been pointed or that's helped you heal

from something so traumatic I think by just trying to educate everyone around you on the statistics of how often these events occur and how you can be a better ally to people who have been in these types of situations. I think that was the thing that was the hardest to deal with in the past couple of weeks is seeing how people respond to a survivor story or a victim story by not believing them and by making some false parallels, I just really feel like the more education we get out there and the more we talk about this subject and the more we try to be empathetic. And just listen, you don't automatically have to arrive at a conclusion by listening to a survivor story.

just being there for that person to, you know, tell you their story is going to make all the difference in the world. And I think that's a big thing behind the whole believe women or believe survivors' business is we want to be able to tell our stories without fear of being told that we're making a false accusation or not being believed. what are some of the things as you see this and you've dug pretty deep into this being your mission and your your your passion and kind of your purpose what are some of the reasons that you see on why people aren't believing the victims what's what's the communication where is the communication missing I think that a lot of people get exposed to scare tactics or misinformation, there was a lot going around about, I forget what even the hashtag was,

but it was like, not my son or something like that. And when you look at the statistics of false accusations, they're very low. It's between like 2% and 10%, and even that amount of data isn't accurate just because the police stations or the people reporting these numbers aren't using the same type of data stats whenever they're looking at these. So I think the best thing to do is to volunteer with organizations that do help women through these types of situations or to read up on any type of of literature you can consume that deals with this type of subject, the more we expose ourselves

to these situations, the listening to people's stories, the better we can serve them. I think you're spot on. And one of the things I've learned from this is, and Ashley, again, has been quick to tell me, there's a lot of things I don't understand. As somebody that's not a victim myself, there's a lot of things that I don't understand, and I have to admit that, right? So somebody, Ashley, it's out there that doesn't understand, but knows it's wrong,

that maybe has been around somebody that's closely been affected by sexual assault. What can I do? How can I help? How can I relate? How can I make sure that when I do send a message out there to say, hey, let's all be better, that it doesn't come from a place of not understanding

or unrelatedability, but it comes from a place of for people like yourself, to say there's there's an ally he's on my team he's part of the good ones i actually think your first statement was kind of the first step and all of that um i think it's wonderful to hear a guy say that he doesn't understand and he'll never know what that feels like but he he wants to try i really do feel like that's the first step i think that we all have to step out of our are situations of not knowing how things go and wanting to immediately judge or form an opinion and just saying, you know what, I don't get this. Please tell me more about it. That really is the

first step. I think you've already kind of had experience with this, but just listening to their story and wanting to help them heal through the trauma. I think that's all you can do. There's obviously a thousand things here, Ashley, in this interview that, I mean, we could talk about for hours and there's some big lessons learned, I think, through our scenario and this Twitter exchange and how both of us were unable to fully comprehend each other's stories just by using Twitter. Something we talk about all the time on this podcast is the beauty, the pros to social media, but also the cons. For you and this... kind of Twitter exchange with me, and I don't just want to make this about me, because you know, you and I have seen hopefully that we are on the same team. What are some of the lessons that you've learned and how you approach these situations from a distance?

I think that in terms of this situation, I've learned that I don't always have to be so aggressive. I'm definitely someone who has never been scared to bring an uncomfortable element into my conversation, just because I do feel like a lot of times change does come from getting uncomfortable and really digging in deep. But I know that I can be a little more aggressive than I should be. and for us to really have these types of conversations where people can learn a lot and can heal a lot, my rhetoric isn't always as useful as it could be if I'm just so aggressive out the gate. So I'm definitely going to work on that. I do want to be able to be as optimistic as you.

So that's something that I'm definitely taking from here's my conversation or our many conversations that we've had from this. So I mean, thank you at least for inspiring me to try to be better at that. Well, and, you know, we can pat each other in the back here because I want to thank you. And that's the final question before I let Ashley, because I know she probably has some stuff that she's holding on to that she wants to ask you. And I know our producer has maybe a couple questions as well. I want to open up the form to that.

I also want to take this second to say that anybody out there listening, if you have any questions, if you need someone to talk to you, if you need somebody to relate with, please email us at Ben and Ashley, iHeartMedia.com. I think we would love to take it in your emails and your stories. Also, at the end of the segment, I'm going to be pointing you to an organization that has a hotline you can call to talk to somebody. Please listen to that. But, Ashley, as I was saying, you know, I do seem to be optimistic in my hope for humanity.

But you also challenged me with a statement that said, Ben, you have a platform, speak on something directly, stand for something, and don't throw big fluffy words around. And that is a charge I want to take as well. It's hard on social media. But I want to do that. And so I want to pass that also over to you to say, what is your hope for Bachelor? We have a lot of Bachelor fans listening. Bachelor Nation gets a massive following. There's a ton of responsibility with this following.

Millions of people follow us each year. What is your hope for the people that come off the show, that participate in the show, that have been on the show? What do you hope they use their platforms for? Ashley, Simey? I do think that people in Bachelor Nation tend to sigh away from, I don't even want to say political statements or kind of posting about politics just because I think that they do have a lot of fear of losing followers or in some way that would affect their sponsorships or something like that. But I do think that, you know, pretty much everyone is against rape. I think that is something that we all can shine a light on, say that there are resources for anyone who has been through sexual assault or sexual abuse.

I wish that that was highlighted more over the past couple of weeks. You don't have to say that you're a Democrat or a Republican or a conservative or a liberal or anything like that. you can encourage more people to vote. You can use your platform for good in a way that doesn't just include how many followers we're going to gain or lose or prevent us from getting a sponsorship. Do you guys think that social media is a difficult place to have conversations like this because so much is misconstrued? I think that's one of my, you know, in looking at your tweet,

and looking at the things that have happened on social media, it's a very hard place to really get into discussions like this, and they seem to go sideways. They're always hostile when they're done on social media. And what I wanted to say was just sitting back and listening to you guys talk. It's so incredible the difference between how calm and sensitive everyone is when they're actually talking. But when they're either texting or they're on Twitter, it just comes across in a completely different way because so much can get lost in the written word,

but when you have tone and you're talking like this, it just comes across completely differently and something's actually done. You know, you feel like something's been accomplished at the end of the conversation, not just fighting. So I just wanted to tell you guys how awesome it was just listening to you. Talk that out. And I wanted to hear what you guys think about that. Yeah, I mean, I will definitely say I think I am very politically active on Twitter or Instagram. I don't have the followings that y'all have. So I do try to have those conversations, mostly because I can respond to all of them. I don't know if y'all necessarily can just because, I mean, you'll have millions of followers

or hundreds of thousands of followers. I don't have anywhere close to that number. So I do try to do the most with my tiny platform just because I do know that a lot of people that follow me like to have those conversations. Like I said, I do think a lot of things can get misconstrued on Twitter. And if I'm lucky enough, like I was with Ben, we can continue those conversations. and hopefully that's what adds value to these types of interactions. Actually, Ashley, I wanted to switch gears a little bit and actually talk about your presence online because for somebody who hasn't been on a Bachelor show for, it hasn't been almost eight years now,

you actually have quite a presence online. How have you gotten so involved and known? I know you've worked a little bit with reality, Steve, but it does seem like you've sort of become a Bachelor investigative journalist. You know, that investigative journalist stuff just happened by chance. I don't know how I got this role. But I will say one thing that I think I have always tried to do in, that's when I said kind of be like a truth teller.

So after my season, I started a recap blog, kind of where I would kind of like list the veil behind things that were going on behind the scenes that people weren't necessarily seeing or clue people in on that you can get a bad edit or things like that because that didn't exist back when I was on the show. That's true. Did you call out production and stuff

and did they come after you? Well, they hired me actually to do it for ABC.com. No way. I mean, it was so different back then. And then kind of what happened is that I found out there was a male cast member who was doing a recap that was much shorter than mine, mine. I'm not kidding.

Probably took like 12 hours where I was basically like make a meme out of all these pictures. And he was getting paid double what I was getting paid to write them. So I stopped. No way. But it was fine because it took up so much of my time anyway. And then, yeah, I've just, I've tried to speak out on things. I didn't love whenever Caitlin was but same during her season. I was very vocal about that.

I hated the racism that Rachel had to endure. I want to ask Ashley Spy v. sort of a tough question. And I have mixed feelings on it because I can't see all the tweets. But you seem, especially in this conversation, like you're really open to hearing another perspective, another side. And we got a lot of. lot of, you know, people reaching out to us that you block them on Twitter.

So I'm more curious where your thought processes is there because I'm hearing you say you want to have conversations and you want to be open and you want to have a dialogue going and then the blocking seems to be the opposite of that. Oh, for sure. I mean, I don't know if Ashley and Ben have ever had this happen to them. But I think there's something to be said about having an actual discretion. And then sometimes when people are definitely trolling or trying to be hurtful towards you or trying to say mess up things, sometimes it's just easier to block them to try to have.

That's fair. I think some of the people that reached out to us don't feel that they were doing that. But I, you know, I'm not in your head to know why you block a person. over another. And we have had a lot of people come after us. And one of the things that I'm most proud of Ben and Ashley is they listen to it every time. They hear the people out every time. And so, you know, that's just my two sense on that. You can do whatever you want. But I do think if we are going to really be open and making progress, we have to hear other people's perspective. For sure. I mean, I don't think that I

besides the blocking, which I don't even think I have that many people blocked. And the only reason I know the number is because whenever Chrissy Teagan showed her block list, I think I may have posted mine or even said how many people I had blocked. So the number is not that great. It's more so, like, I mean, there were probably some people from, like, the morning toast group or something that had come after me and had said some things. But I'm willing to have conversations with people who are respectful and not trolling. And if people really did feel like they were coming to me with those conversations and I blocked them,

I apologize for that, but I really do try to limit it to people who are being harmful in their comments or their tweet. Okay. Ben and Ashley, I have a question for both of you about trolls. Do you think that I've always been confused

as to what to do with them? Should I block them and then just get them out of my life? Or does blocking them show that they've affected me so much? Oh, they've affected me. 100%. That's exactly why I'm blocking them.

Yeah, so you're like, yeah, but then I feel like it almost gives them power. Like, oh, I did my job. I knew, yeah? I could care less if they felt power in that moment. I just don't want, I don't, I, I, I, this and Ashley, I'm not speaking for you.

Ashley Spive, I'll talk about it too. I'll let you answer this. But I, I noticed that, well, even Ashley Spivey, geez, call, and I promise you would never bring it up again, but she called me vanilla, boring, like, and I hate that. Like, it makes me so angry. I don't know why. And so when people do that, like, it's almost like an automatic, like, I don't want to hear your opinion anymore.

then you make a really good point there and I think Ashley spoke to it but again my thing is stand strong on your opinions but I Ashley I think your message gets lost when you do that which I think you address no that's what I said like I know that my anger does not always manifest in the best of ways and one of those things is sometimes I can get a little too fired up and say hurtful things like many people do when they're angry but I have apologized to Ben for that, and we've had a couple of jokes at that. Hey, Ashley, this is also just a general question. I wonder if I do it too. Would you say those things if you were in front of your face,

or is that something that you just say because, like, he's a public figure and you're on Twitter? Because obviously I talk about, and so, like, my Cosmo blog and stuff, I will make fun of people because I haven't met them yet, and I wouldn't say to their face in person, and then I meet them, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's so embarrassing. But, like, what do you think? I have a couple of instances of that with previous bachelor seasons.

Like I said in the recap blog I used to have, I think I called like, I think we called Sean Lowe like a vanilla gender or I even said a couple of things about other people. And when I met them in person, they were like, we were ready to like hate you and think you a total bit but now you're like a little piece of dynamite like with a southern accent and I think it's funny because I was kind of wondering what y'all thought I was going to be like before I came on the podcast and I'm sure you thought I was going to be like super angry with like a really mean like scary voice or something I did think you were going to have a scary voice and then I came on she's like oh she's a southern sweetheart I think

you're exactly what you are you're trying working hard to do what's right for you and figuring out how to do that yeah well and i hope to in terms of trying to do what's right for me i'm an empath so other people's feelings and hurt and suffering really affects me so i'm always trying to do for other people. I mean, I'm a nanny. You know, I mean, like, my, my job is really to try to take care of other people. And I know probably the best expression of that was not what happened on Twitter, but it truly is my heart. Yeah. Well, it ended up being used for good. And you were the catalyst to letting that happen. You reached out to me. You said, hey, this doesn't seem like this is going in a direction on Twitter that is anywhere good or healthy. Can we talk? And,

And Ashley, I think Amy brings up a great point. I've gotten to hear your story. Your, you know, yeah, your story is so many others out there that just haven't felt like they can share it yet. And a lot of this does get lost in anger. And so I think a good takeaway from all of us listening to this. And me, including even talking about, is when we do confront these issues, we can be angry and we can feel angry, but make sure we're communicating our mess. message clearly and effectively every time. With this, Ashley Spivey and I wanted to try, we talked and we tried to figure out what we could do about this outside of just talking

on this podcast. And so we thought there's a couple organizations out there that are really in support of women that are in the support of just also hearing anybody's stories that are victims of sexual assault because this is not just something that happens to women. Men are involved in what as well um and so i want to make sure to to highlight and ask anybody out there listening to donate um to rain and that's spelled r a i and n ash and ashley has brought this network to my attention um i want to tell you a little bit about it rain uh the rape abuse and incest national network is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization rain created and operates the national sexual assault hotline 800 656 hope you can also visit them on

online at online.rein.org. If you are a victim, if you haven't told your story or maybe you have and you need to talk to somebody, please reach out to rain. Also, if you're out there listening and maybe you've been affected or you haven't been affected, consider donating to rain. This is something that has affected so many. And if I can get on my soapbox for a second.

Again, I cannot imagine living a life or something so personal and something that affects all of us, no matter who you are or what your practices have been so much, and not tell your story or not feel like you have the opportunity to tell the story. For anybody out there that has caused this pain on somebody, I hope you feel the heaviness and the weight and the impact at which you're affecting lives in the worst of ways. And I also hope that there is a redemption and a redeeming quality to all of this. but none of us will be ever able to understand unless we start talking about it. And so start having these conversations. I hope you do not feel ashamed for anybody that's a victim and you need to talk to somebody.

Please reach out this podcast and we'll make sure to get you in contact with somebody. Ashley, I know you are going to highlight an organization as close and near and dear to my heart. And a lot of listeners know about it. And I just want to give you kind of the last word because I know you have to get the work on on anything you want to kind of finish up with oh no I just I wanted to thank you for allowing me to come on the podcast and explain myself um and special thanks to Ashley and Amy because I know y'all were very happy with me but I do hope that um through this talk I've hopefully been able to change your mind a little bit you certainly have definitely and then um

Like I said, Ben and I are going to donate to each other's cause that we brought to each other. You got it. Just because I do feel like this conversation was so productive, and I wanted to do it as a joint effort of faith. And the other person that I do appreciate Ben for what he stands for. And I hope he appreciates me for at least what I've been willing to share with him. and I do hope that this talk will inspire other listeners to have those same types of conversations. So thank you all for having me on.

Oh, I appreciate you. This is fantastic experience was listening to you guys. Thank you so much. Ashley, Spivey, never stand down. We can always become better at communicating, but I do appreciate you. And this has been one of the craziest weeks and a halfs of my life on learning and educating,

and figuring this out and also just knowing that you have a story to tell and all of this comes from a place of a lot of her and so yeah let's stand up together and Ashley Spivey thanks for come on the podcast I know it was a risk but I hope you feel like it was fruitful thanks again thank you so much then I do feel better bye okay wow Actually, this is the takeaway, one of the takeaways that I have. And I think we're seeing it today. And Ashley Spivey spoke on it.

I know there's a lot of criticism out there on, you know, we've desacredized the Me Too Movement. Too many people are claiming it. There's too many false accusations. And I just have a hard time believing that. I just think there's a lot more victims than anybody ever realized. I think a lot of people have been affected by sexual assault

and I think it's shocking right now to the public when so many people are coming out and saying I've been hurt but I also think there's an important lesson there and one that Ashley Spivey and I have spoken about is the Me Too movement is sacred we have to hold it up and say when you make a claim

it carries an impact and it carries a weight to it right and so in this day and age as we communicate with each other as we throw accusations at each other, we have to make sure that we're doing it in truth. And Ashley Spivey spoke on that. She wants to be a messenger of truth.

And I think one of the hardest things that for me in this was that I was being compared to people that I know I don't ever want to be compared with or I know that are not on my team. And that got scary for me. And it was also, it really did get scary for me because I felt like there was something that was so near and dear to my heart,

a topic that affected me closely that I was now being associated with and I couldn't have a chance to control so I think what I'm trying to say is for anybody out there listening speak up talk about it share this truth but make sure you're all communicating in truth and make sure you're hearing people's stories first there's an empathy level that needs to be brought into this to listen to trust and to know and so yeah I appreciate Ashley Spivey I really do I didn't last week I like her too because I think she's trying and I respect anybody that's making an effort.

I think what she's experiencing is learning as she goes on how to do that in the right way. And I think she makes missteps all the time. I mean, 100% she did it. This was definitely a step in the right direction, though. It was so different. Yeah. It was so different hearing her talk to you vocally, not through the computer screen. I agree. I think I completely agree. It's just a lot, and honestly, it's a lot less intimidating. It feels a lot less uncontrollable because as we're spouting back and forth at each other on Twitter, explanations really aren't getting heard. Stories are not getting heard. I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned here. But I was angry at Ashley last week. I mean, she was my worst enemy about a week and a half ago. And now she's somebody that I'm just, I'm going to,

to always learn from. So again, please donate to rain. I will be donating to rain. The hotline is 800656.56. Hope. Also, Ashley Spivey will be donating to Humanian Hope United, which is a nonprofit that focuses on alleviating human injustice in Honduras and building successful, standable communities. And one of the ways they do that is by empowering women and by supplying jobs for over 90% of the women in these communities that they work with. So I don't know. It's heavy, but we've talked about it. And I think the only way that we will continue to confront this issue is to have open

and honest dialogue. With that, Ashley, we've got a big podcast ahead of us. Man, it's going to be weird to just jump into another conversation now, but you go, we got to do it. It is hard to transition. But it's not hard to transition when you're transitioning to. something so good, right? So positive. We're going to be talking to Tanner Tolbert here coming up very soon. I might be more angry at Tanner Tolbert and you for the next 10 minutes than I ever

was at Ashley Spivey. Something I'm not angry at is Bull and Branch. Bullen Branch makes the softest, most comfortable 100% organic cotton sheets you'll ever sleep on. They only sell to you online at BullenBranch.com so their sheets cost less than half of the designer brands and are twice the quality. They're made from 100%. That's not 99.9. That's 100% organic cotton. They start out soft and get even softer over time. Here's the funny part. Three U.S. Presidents love Bull and Branch Sheets. This has always been interesting me. I don't know why. Maybe I want to be president one day because it's just something about presidency. We know you do. Really? I don't, I didn't know that was like something that was known because I didn't know that about myself.

Oh, whoops. But the, there's something about presidency that intrigues me because I feel like they probably have the best of everything and I've been watching the West Wing and I'm on episode three of the West Wing not the best show ever oh my God so here you're only on episode three yeah yeah just wait oh I don't even want to you don't even know what is coming I've never heard you get more excited because I actually think it might be the best show ever made I've watched it through just started again at the beginning if I like scandal I like that my friend Angie's husband just watches it watches the whole series then watches it again and

watches it again and watch it again and what's crazy I'm sorry to go off is that it seems like it's current like it was wait just wait you have no idea all I want to say is wait for the end of this season and call me because you will be your mouth will be open and you will be like fighting tears and shock and not knowing what to do. Okay, you actually sold me. I'm going to watch that later. Anyway, Bowling Bridge. So this weekend, I just got back from Los Angeles last night.

I spoke at Politicon this weekend, which is a political conference that brings in some of the most recent political leaders of our day to speak and share about where they're at, what their stories are and where they're standing and what they view the current atmosphere of the United States as today. here's the cool part. The West Wing, Amy and Ashley, actually did a panel at this conference that I sat in on along with one of the advisors to Obama. And so the advisor to Obama literally said when they got announced that President Obama was going into office, they all watched the West Wing to prepare themselves

for their next jobs because that's how accurate it actually is. I promise you, they said the only thing that's not accurate about the West Wing is the size of the offices. The offices are actually smaller in real life than they are in the West Wing. But they said everything else, like the job of the Secretary of Communication or any of that is actually very, very accurate.

And so I started watching it here this week because of that. And as I watched it last night, the president shows his room, like his sleeping quarters. And I saw the sheets and I was like, I bet they're bull and girls. Prepare to not leave your house.

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Bowling Branch.com promo code almost famous at the end of the podcast. I think we're going to take some time and talk about the West Wing. I know that that's not what you want to do during the middle of it, but at least we will do it at the end. So if you want to skip over the whole thing, great. But if not, Amy, Ashley, we've got to talk. And I know you also want to talk about something else very important to you, very special to you, Ashley.

Ashley, tell us about FabFit Fun. Fabfit Fun is a seasonal subscription box with full-size beauty fitness, fashion, and lifestyle products. It's a favorite of mine. It's a favorite of our next guest, Tanner Tolbert's, and it only retails for $49.99, but it always has a value of over $200. Don't ask me how they do it. They do it, and they do it every single quarter. Getting your Fab Fit Fun box in the mail feels like Christmas four times a year. Seriously, and especially as time goes on and the box gets better and better, some of the

contents that you could expect to see in FabFit Funboxes are like skincare from glam glow and juice beauty, both things that I have in my glam room and that are big favorites of my skin, fashion items, including things from free people and Michael Stars and beauty products from tart, Moroccan oil, and chai. Don't miss out because they sell out fast. And I know that some companies go, oh, they sell out fast. No, but really, these things sell out in less than a week. check out fabfitfund.com and use the code Almost Famous. You can save $10 on your first box, making it only $39.99. And don't forget the value

is over $200. Again, that is fabfitfund.com. Use the code Almost Famous. And treat yourself. Treat yourself. Ben, I'm sorry if you didn't want to be president and I just kind of put that on you. You don't want to be president? Then you don't have to be. I always just imagined you as president. I guess it was really just my own mindset. Yeah, you know what I really do want to be? so we'll throw it out there because I think a lot of the presidents do listen to the Almost Famous podcast

and I'm sure we have some future presidents listening you know what my dream job is now outside of operating generous is to operate generous and be an ambassador to a country oh okay I can see you definitely doing that I'd love to do that I would I just think that sounds awesome I think I'm going to just like step out of here no angry I just feel like I need to step out the podcast and let you and Tanner have your moment um because I don't feel well welcome anymore. Oh my God. Okay. We have Tanner Tolbert, one of my very close friends on the line. Hi, Tanner. Hello, guys. Hi. So we just spent four days together in Puerto Rico. It was the most amazing vacation. Jared and I have just had been blessed with wonderful vacations at the W. Fort Lauderdale, Royal Caribbean, and now this amazing week in Puerto Rico with

you guys. Jade and Tanner vacations are the best vacations. And on this vacation, Jared posted in Instagram that I thought people already knew I thought people already knew what was in the caption of this Instagram but I guess they didn't you will be officiating our wedding next August

and this is something that we've joked about for like ever since Jared and I got engaged right? Oh yeah maybe even before that I know I think so too but apparently I've made a boo-boo and I may have hurt Ben's feelings and I think I hurt

some fans feelings out there too they were very defensive of you ben very defensive when this was announced because before jared and i were ever together and the almost famous podcast was just a mere baby i said something along the lines of ben i would love you to officiate my wedding one day and truly ben if i were not marrying jared i'm sure i think you probably maybe would be um it's just that so it's jared's decision it's no it's not jared's decision it's yeah it's jared and My relationship. I can see how this relationship is going to go.

No, Ben, you know it's my relationship with Jared has completely evolved and unfolded and blossomed in front of Tanner Tolbert's eyes. He is closer to it than anyone other than our parents, our families. It happened because of Tanner. I love Ben. God bless you, Ben. I love you. But like, Tanner, Jared went to Tanner and opened his soul and Tanner said, dude, or might have said, bro. you got to do it.

And so my thing is like, I'm a bro guy. He said, bro, you got to do it. So Tanner is responsible for what is Ashley and Jared. All right, Tanner. Yeah, Ben. Don't be mad at me. I mean, you got the role of The Bachelor after a season together.

Let me have this role. Let me have a shining moment. I just wanted it all. Tanner, I just want it all. Ben, you get to now watch Tanner of a shade, which is going to be the funniest thing you're ever going to see in your life. because Tanner always has this slight smile. It's little sly grin.

And it's going to be the most perfect thing I've ever seen at the altar. It's going to allow me to laugh through my tears rather than just have an emotional sob fast. Well, you know what else it does for me? It allows me to kick back, relax, to have a couple cocktails in me that I was no longer going to be able to have.

So, Tanner, it's your job. Go for it. I will be celebrating Ashley and Jared from the audience. Tanner, I really want to know, though. We've talked about it a couple times. Take us back to the moment where Jared did just release his heart and soul to you. And what was, before you even spoke to Jared, as he was saying the words, if I think I love Ashley, what was going through your mind? So I had dreamt of that moment for like two years.

That's weird. That was that couple. Yeah, I know. It is kind of weird. But Jared and asked there were that couple that was like we traveled well together. And there was that couple that like we liked the guy and the girl equal. And that's rare to have within a marriage if you actually like both people, not just the guy like the guy, girl, like the girl, whatever the case may be. So I selfishly was rooting for this relationship to work out for about two years just for my own needy reasons to have, you know, traveling studies.

But I didn't think it would actually happen, but I was always in their corner. And then I knew the moment when Jared decided to come to St. Lucia just for like 18-hour, you know, an 18-hour. period. He didn't even have to tell me. He didn't, he waited to tell me until we got down there. But I know no guy is going to travel, you know, two, eight-hour flights and over a span of 18 hours unless there's a girl involved. That just doesn't happen. So as soon as he got here, or as soon as he got there, he pulled me aside, asked me to lowdown because I've already kind of talked to Ashley about it. And Gary spilled his guts and the rest of history, man. Yeah. It's a good story. Tanner was there when we first met. He was,

there when we had friend fights about why we were just friends and then he was there as Jared's confidant when it was time to tell his real feelings. So come on, you have to understand why he's got to be our efficient. I can't be that mad. No, I'm good. I've gotten over it. I was just excited. I support you also. I just feel like Tanner's won up in me. You know, he gets Jade. He gets the baby. You don't even want to know what he won on fan duel yesterday then danner tanner you had a big week i have it was a very good sunday in the toulber household oh my gosh everything's happened in the toulber household hey for any of the fans listening tanner tulbert was i think one of the most beloved people that i've ever seen in a house

uh full of men competing for one woman so when we're on kately's season of the bachelorette everybody loved tanner toulbert everybody loved jared also it's just like they kind of were like two and one um And Tanner Tolbert was one of the guys. There was a lot of us at the end. Tanner, I want to kind of go back to this moment. We're standing in Ireland on the night that you got asked to go home. And I remember we're all standing there after this long journey with Caitlin. And I was one of these guys.

But I think there was three of us that started tear up knowing that one of our close friends were going to be going home that evening. And it was really sad. Tanner, do you remember that moment? The bromance was real. Yeah. I honestly had a bigger. I had a way bigger connection with you then I did with Caitlin. So it was a tough moment, a tough moment for me, for sure.

But me and Jared did kind of have that role that season, just kind of where we kept hanging around. Obviously, Jared made it a little further than I did. Yeah, the love was real between us, bro. I didn't even really know Kaylin, but I knew you pretty well. Yeah, we knew each other very well. But everybody in the house, all the men loved, loved you. You also, and then I know Ashley wants to dig into her.

her relationship here and I think it's important that we do but there is this interesting did you ever kiss Caitlin I did not on camera but so it's just for you know just for my memory at this point America didn't America didn't think that I did but I you know I laid it on her a couple time that's that's a boy that's for another story yeah I think I think all the guys bug me in the house just because they knew I was no threat to their relationship with Caitlin so it's easy to be like if you're not a threat every week Tanner was shot that he made it through. He's like, wait, what?

She called my name again? This is just wrong. For sure. Hey, tell me about your last vacation. You went to Puerto Rico together here last week. Yeah, Tim, do we have any stories to share other than just the fact that it was lovely? The thing that I love about Jane Tanner

is that we can sit down to like two meals, like two, two hour meals every day, and we never run out of things to say. We talk the entire time, and they're the friends that you don't go back to the hotel room invent about, you're just like, wow, I love them. Wow, I could actually spend every hour together with them. Exactly. We feel the same way. So, yeah, there's not really any stores. Now that we're both, like, you know, married or engaged couples, nothing cool happens anymore.

No, we just talk a lot. You know, go to dinner and go to sleep. There's no, there's no juicy stories like there were back in, you know, the pre-Jarrett and Ashley together trips at all. Yeah. Nothing, nothing that comes to mine, right, Ashley? We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, watched some HD TV together. That's what we're doing on our... This is the most exciting topic ever. Is that lame? Like we actually, we went back to our hotel rooms by 10.30 and we're like, yeah, it is about house hunters time.

And then we were texting each other from our respective rooms about house hunters. Believeable. Tanner, I'm very, very interested. Has the dynamic between Ashley and Jared changed? I mean, obviously a little bit. Like, they're affectionate. But have you felt a drastic change now that they're engaged? compared to before when they were just friends um i mean they're they still act like they acted like best friends before because they were and they still act like best friends just now jared is just constantly kissing like ashley's shoulder instead of sitting on the opposite sides of the table he doesn't get off of me i know jared is very high in the whole pd i train or pda train who would

have thought like really go back nine months and who would have believed you if you said like oh yeah Jared can't keep his hands of Ashley. Nobody. I remember when you guys were both single and when we were in the Bahamas and I was like begging him to go kiss you. Yeah, for an Instagram sake. I don't know.

Yeah. I was like, I don't know, man. I don't know. Now, you know, fast four years later, the dude can't keep his hands off of you. Did you change like perfume or something, Ash? No.

Yeah, it is. His pheromones have quite an effect on me, though. I just love his natural smell. Like his face smells so good to me. I don't know like it's weird but yeah Tanner and Jade and Emmy Emmy was the best on this trip you guys she isn't a little adult now she cried I think I saw like water come out of her her eyes once in four days and we were doing adult stuff like going to fancy dinners and touring around old San Juan and she was so good and she's starting to talk a little bit this one time when she said dadda like we literally flipped out yeah the year the year is kind of a sweet spot so when you got to have kids don't even bother traveling that first year. It's not worth it. But after that year, everything gets much easier.

Yeah. Tell us about Emmy. You know, Tanner, I get to see it on Instagram, and you and Jade both post these loving pictures of your beautiful daughter. But for anybody out there listening, they're huge fans of you and Jade. You and Jade have made your mark on Bachelor Nation. Talk about a little bit about where you guys are at as a couple, and then how Emmy's doing. Amy's doing good.

She just turned 14 months. She has not walked yet. So she's a little behind on the walking deal, but we're working on that. And then Jade and I have been trying to confuse baby number two for a few months now. And we, Jade just had her ovulation a little period the last few days. You know what that means? Well, they can't get pregnant before the wedding. It's like funny because they have to stop trying in December.

They can't do it in November when she's ovulating because then she wouldn't be able to come to the wedding. right and yeah we can't have to we can't have the due days then so i'm pretty much i got laid this week this is really the last month they can do it because she was at eight months she had emmy at eight months so you know just really skip november and december for us yeah so i might be celibate until like january or february so yeah thanks a lot gerard i bye bye all right well tanner we got to let you go thank you so much um And hopefully we have you in here soon talking about the preparations for what you're going to say at our old turn. All right.

Talk to you later. Love you, bye. Thank you, bye. Thanks, ma'am. See, bye. Ben, we have a little bit more to talk about in this podcast, but I have another thing that's happened to me this week that I have to share with you. I got the results of my 23 and me, and I am only 14% Italian. What did you think?

I'm having an identity crisis. I just have this feeling that you're like a part of royalty and I'm going to have to hear about it forever now. Well, I did find out that I'm also like 14, 15% Irish and British. Who would have thought? So maybe I do have some Brit royalty in me. But I never knew that. So my dad got these results.

I got the results back for mine. And then he's looking at them and he's like, Grandpa must have been half Italian and he probably was like half British as well. Like, isn't that insane? if you feel like we had this conversation before but if you feel like this world is more divided than ever and you're tired of hearing about all the things that separate us you're going to have to check out spit spit is actually a podcast with iHeart radio and 23 and me where they explore all things DNA and how we are all actually 99.5% genetically alike the hosts sit down with the

biggest stars, including John Legend and Melissa Etheridge and other influencers to talk about how the world of genetic testing is changing who we are in the world around us. They explore a variety of important topics such as how science stacks up against the stories that we've been told and how much is nature and how much is nurture. And the modern definition of family, genetics, race and outsmarting our genes and a whole lot more. Ben, I can't wait for you to take 23 and me. and to let me know how surprised you are at your heritage. Because now when people are like, what's your ethnicity? I'm going to be like, honestly, everything.

I'm just like a European mud. When you did it, what did you have to do? All you do is you spit into this thing, which is kind of gross. And my sister was hilarious. So you're not supposed to eat and drink for half an hour before you spit into this vial. And she couldn't get enough spit. And it does say in the instructions you're like, you're supposed to, it might take five minutes to get as much spit as you need.

but in order to make as much saliva as she needed, she had to YouTube videos of pizza to salvate. Yes, and I laughed so hard. And then a couple weeks later, we found out that we're only 14% Italian. Wow. Would you guys match? I mean, your sister, so I'm assuming,

but does it exactly match? It matched. How crazy would it be if it came back different? I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah. I just wonder, like, Like, that'd be super cool. Mom, we have a problem.

Mom, got a big issue. For my dad's birthday, it was just last week. We got him at 23 and me, so it should be getting in the mail. And I'm like, Dad, why do you need that? You know, you have learned in my results. But he wants to really see, like, what his breakdown is. That's right. Hey, we have a couple of questions.

We're going to finish the podcast talking about Jordan and Jenna. Also, Will's has disappeared. What a Bachelor at favorite contestants is just nowhere to be. Where is he? Let's find out only here on the Almost Famous Podcast. Jillian Overland. Hello. How are you? Hey, Jillian. You're a fan of the podcast and a lawyer. So we thought how perfect would it be to have you on and talk about the legality of this Jordan and Jenna drama?

Give us your perspective. It's great to talk to you both. I was actually listening to the last podcast and I heard Ben talking about this and I thought to myself it would be great to provide a little bit. of clarity as to what's been going on. So I've been following the story. I watched Bachelor in Paradise, and I was really kind of captivated by this dispute between the two of them. And, you know, in terms of this forensic report, that was really what stood out to me.

You know, three pages long, I feel like the average person doesn't even want to read through the whole thing. But I wanted to sort of explain how these things happen. So, you know, usually when there's a legal dispute and there are two very different versions of what happened, a law firm will go ahead and hire a company like Protis 3, which is to Jenna's law firm hired. And their job, just so we're clear, is not to provide a neutral report of the analysis of whatever they're looking at. They're hired by the law firm that was hired by Jenna, and their job is to figure out a way to support her story. So just so we're clear on that, they're not neutral. They're kind of coming at it with a bias because they're being paid by a certain side,

and ideally the report should, the purpose of it should be to clear her name. And what I found really interesting is that even with that being the case, I don't think they even came close to clearing her name, and that really says a lot because that's their job. And so the fact that they weren't able to do that, I don't think is really great for Jenna's story. But at the same time, I think that the purpose of her releasing this report was with the goal of clearing herself. And I feel like maybe the average person might read this and sort of, you know, become suspicious of Jordan. But if you look at the report clearly, there are certain things in there that sort of were red flags to me. And I think the biggest thing that I noticed is that, you know, if you look on the first page of the report,

they talk about the fact that there were only 269 recovered, deleted text messages. And that seemed like a very low number to me. There were all, in all told, there were about 6,500 text messages and only 269 recover text messages that were deleted. And the phone that she had, if I'm right, I think that phone, the iPhone 6 was released in 2014. So that's a pretty old phone. And I just think it's odd. Where are the rest of the deleted text messages? And if you look at the last page, and Ben, you pointed this out, that really there's this huge disclaimer at the end saying, you know, we,

We can only really review what we have. You know, we don't really know what happened here. That's kind of what the end of this letter says. And the truth is, if they don't have all of her text messages, there's really no, there's nothing about this report that's helpful. It doesn't really say anything. It's a whole bunch of speculation. Who reviews this then? So the report gets put out there.

I mean, this whole thing's under investigation by, I would imagine a judge in. in whatever district this is being claimed? Like, who's reviewing these reports now? Okay, that's a great question. So usually a report like this is created with the idea that the case is going to trial, that someone is filing a lawsuit. And usually there's a battle of the expert. So Jenna would have her report,

and Jordan or Reality Steve would have their own report, depending on who she's doing. They would probably hire their own expert. and then this goes in front of a judge or a jury. And really it comes down to who the person who's trying the case believes. Because this would be a civil case, you don't have to prove who's right beyond a reasonable doubt. There's a much lower burden. So really the question is, who do you believe more?

It's really 51%. Who do you believe is telling the truth? Who's more likely to be telling the truth? And my personal takeaway from this, you know, usually with a. expert report. At the end of the report, you'll have a conclusion, and the conclusion will say, you know, we've concluded within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that, in this case, Jenna did not send these text messages. You'll notice in this report, it doesn't say anything close to that. Nothing like that. So, I mean, I'm almost surprised that she released

the report, and the report itself is so weak to me that I doubt she'll ever take this to court, because this report, I don't feel really helped her. So I think what she was trying to do if I had to guess is hire a company that usually you would use if you're going to file a lawsuit, but she hired them specifically to clear her name to the public just to make herself innocent and then move forward. The old bait and switch.

So she's hoping that this release is going to look like she didn't do it, but in a lawyer's eyes, it looks even more like she did it. Yes, exactly. Oh, juicy. Who exactly is she suing? I heard Amy kind of asking the background there, and I think it's the question that we've all had,

because the report mentions Jordan's name, but also claims that reality Steve is at the head of this. It's reality Steve that she's suing, correct? I don't know. I mean, I haven't heard that she's suing anybody, and when she posted this, she wrote Onward and Upward, which I cook to mean that she's trying to walk away from it. If she did try to sue, I would imagine she would sue both reality Steve and Jordan.

And then the question is, you know, how can she prove her case? So typically in a defamation case, you have to prove that what's being said about you is false. But worse than that for her is, you know, the question becomes, is she a public figure or not? Well, yes, she is. Sorry? She is a public figure. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, it's interesting because if she's a public figure, which I would think she wants people to think of her as a public figure, the burden is a lot higher. So when you're a public figure and you're trying to prove that someone defamed you, you have to prove that when they said what they said about you, they knew what they were saying was false or they completely disregarded the truth.

It's like the hardest case to win, right? very hard. It's a lot harder than if she was, you know, just a regular person. So I personally wouldn't think she's going to sue. I mean, I just, I can't imagine that she would, but you never know. This whole thing is just blown up to something that I don't still understand. Like, it's not good. You know, I don't like that anybody is getting ostracized and criticized for this, but it's a breakup. Like, why do we have to continue to drag this along? You're in the reality television world, people are going to talk about your breakup. Like, that just happens all the time.

Right. I mean, why would I go out there and try to sue every single publication that talked about Lauren and I breaking up? That seems like a big waste of my time. I think if the goal here is for her to repair her public image, she should just leave it with this report and walk away because I don't really think it's going to be good for her to keep pursuing this. I just don't think it's really going to go anywhere that's positive for her.

I agree. I agree. Hey, thank you so much for coming on talking about this. This is something, as you heard last week, as you listened to the podcast, I didn't quite understand. I don't know if I ever really actually wanted to understand it, but I do now. You really help me understand it. Thanks for email on the podcast. That's crazy. You emailed our podcast. You said, hey, I have some insight into this. And as a result, now you're educating to both of us. Thank you so much for coming on the almost famous podcast. welcome and I want to say I thought you did a pretty good job of explaining it so good on you I appreciated your effort absolutely try hard I try hard that's good all right thanks guys it was great talking to you thanks Julian we'll have you on call for our next legal issue in bachelor nation sounds great take care all right well actually wills has disappeared yeah that's I was going to say we have another mystery on our hands yeah before we go here um this has been we'll Let me just talk to you for a second. The off season is usually so slow and so boring. And then we have to come up with crazy little segments like Ben Bitches.

And we still have that on tape. But we're going on a time because there's so much happening this year when it comes to the Almost Famous Podcast and Bachelor Nation. Ashley, tell us about Wills. Where do you go? So it was brought to our attention today by producer Amy that they've been talking in the almost famous Facebook group about the disappearance of Wills. wills is of course from

Becca's season and then this past season to Bachelor in Paradise and he hasn't posted anything on Instagram for the past month which I would be like okay so maybe he just doesn't want to take part in the whole Instagram world of The Bachelor That's totally fine

Everybody wants to take place Yeah I mean maybe he was feeling defeated Maybe he felt like I wasn't getting enough attention on there So he was like okay I give up But then things got really weird when I texted this morning And I said hey it's Ashley I We were wondering if you wanted to come on the almost famous podcast, and it's been three hours and he hasn't responded.

Did it say delivered? It says delivered. I think that he is, you know, maybe kidnapped. He's on a show. Nope. Oh my God. You're so right. That could be it.

Sorry for my squealing. Did you know that? No, but I guarantee it that happens. Like all these guys come on the show now and they get called to like MTV the challenge or they get called on some other dating show like marriage boot camp when all of a sudden they have a secret, you know, partner that you never knew. then they disappear again. So I guarantee.

Oh my goodness. Do you think Ben is in the CIA? But it delivered and normally their phones are off. Renaissance man. I wear a lot of hats, Amy. Really clever. Clever move that I did not think of there. Yeah.

So I mean, it's, it's interesting that the text delivered. You know what he's on probably. What do you think it is? What was that show that was airing after Jersey Shore that, um, the challenge. Chase. Well, no, no, Chase was on. Oh, yeah. What was that?

Excellent. on the beach he's on x on the beach season two career move terrific career move nothing's better than going on x on the beach to really enhance your public image let's see if he hits back because some people not ashley or me yeah don't respond to text so quickly oh like ben is pretty good but sometimes he disappears for a day but like i'm right back to you so if you don't get right back to me oh my god she's so bad you have to blow her um my fear At some point in the day, I just put my phone away. So it's all good.

Hey, Wills has disappeared. Ashley Spivey showed up big and came on the podcast to tell her a story. We have insight into Jordan and Jenna. Tanner Tolbert, my arch nemesis comes on the podcast, talk about Ashley and Jared and their love story. It's actually something I love. I think it's great that he's doing it. But Ben, before you go, we have an announcement.

We have a huge announcement. And I just wanted to say, I'm going to have a lot more fun at your wedding now, Ashley, now that I'm not doing the actual wedding. I'm going to be an absolute riot. It's savage the things I'm going to do at your wedding. I'm going to ruin the whole thing. The little gumbie dance that you'll be doing. Hey, IHeart Radio has been a huge, huge supporter of mine.

Ashley and I are very thankful for IHeart Radio. It's been a really good partnership over the last two years. And now IHeart is kind of taking it up a notch and doing something for me that is very personal. You've heard me talk about it. Ashley Spivey and I actually just talked about it. Humanian Hope United is an organization that I care a ton about. It's something I've been working with for the last eight years. I'm on the board, and I go to Honduras three to four times a year with this organization to try and find ways to build sustainable solutions in communities that feel forgotten.

One of those ways, and I'll speed it up here, is that we have a community that is completely dependent on 30 acres of land. It's called, we call it the Grand Farm. The Grand Farm supplies 25 plus people with jobs every week. And those jobs and help them pay for education, health care, transportation, clean water, et cetera. Well, the Grand Farm is something that currently Humanian Helping United leases, but there's a palm company happens often in Honduras coming in to say, we want this land, it's good land, we want to buy it out from underneath you. And the only way that we can stop them from doing that is to buy it ourselves.

If we don't buy it, we're going to lose opportunity. opportunity for these jobs. We're going to lose the place for these jobs. And so I was telling the story to producer Amy and Ashley and I Heart Radio. And they said, well, let's do some about it here on the podcast. Let's do a fundraiser to raise money for Humanian Hope United and the grand farm so that people in Honduras continue to have jobs and can continue to invest in the sustainability and the progress of their lives. So, Amy, I would love for you to explain everybody out there listening, the details of this funder is there, what it looks like, how it's going to operate. We have two big ones coming up. So we're going to reveal the first one today. And basically

next week, you can go to if only.com and you can bid on a charity auction to come in studio with Ben and Ashley, co-host the almost famous podcast. Then Ben is going to take you to the brand new Palisades Village where you get a shopping spree at Carbon 38, which is like amazing workout clothes. get to go to Lauren Conrad's store and have a shopping spree there. Her new store is called The Little Market, and there's a great story behind the little market, which I will totally go into, but everything is made by women in other countries, and all the money goes back into those communities to help those women. And then Ben's going to take you out to dinner.

So if you go to if only.com, and you can search Ben Higgins, but Ben will post the link on his Instagram story with a swipe up, and then you can bid right there. and then we have in a couple more weeks another fundraiser all I'll tell you is it involves dating someone from the Bachelorette. That's awesome.

Amy, Ashley, everybody out there this is super exciting. I heart radio. I appreciate it. Humani and Hope United appreciates it. Let's raise. We have $250,000 to raise by March of 2019. I think we can do it and this is a huge step in that. So Amy, Thank you so much.

IHeart Radio. Thank you. Ashley, thank you. Also, thank you to bio clarity. Our listeners will get their first month for 50% off a routine plus shipping is free and it comes with 100% risk-free, money-back guarantee, but you need to enter our code, famous. Blue Apron, remember to check out this week's menu

and get your first three meals free at Blue Apron.com slash almost famous. Bowling Branch. No risk means no reason not to try them. Plus, you'll get $50 off your first set. of sheets at bollandbranch.com promo code almost famous fabfit fun check out fabfitfund.com and save and use our code almost famous so you can save $10 off your first box making it only $39.99 and finally 23 and me welcome to the almost famous podcast make sure to check out full episodes of spit now on iHeart radio app or wherever you listen to podcast Amy I know before we go

out of a one out of ten how good is the west wing i will continue to watch it no matter what 10 but for anybody out there listening that's like let's say 15 to 25 who probably weren't started in 1999 should we tell them to watch west wing is like is that good a million percent i don't know how to explain it everybody watch if you watch the first season and get back to me there's no way you're not going to tell me it's amazing it's amazing i i watch so much television and I would put this up there in my top five shows of all time. Of all time.

All weekend and I'm just going to be mad at you the whole time because it's going to be so good. I think you have like eight years or something. I think he did two terms. So there's like six to eight seasons. You got a long way to go. Watch me, kid. Hey, this has been an awesome podcast.

Thanks to everybody came on. Thanks to our sponsors. Thanks to I heart radio. With that, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. Talk to you next week. Follow the Ben and. And Ashley I, almost famous podcasts on IHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.