The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Shocking Split?! What Went Wrong...

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

Breaking Bachelor Break-Ups.Ben and Ashley discuss the breaking news of Clare and Dale’s split! Did they see this coming? What REALLY happened? And we try to get to the bottom of why there have been so many Bachelor Nation break-ups recently. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your... free iHeart radio app search emergency intercom and listen now what would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth unfortunately for mark lombardo this was the choice he faced he said you are a number a new york state number and we own you listen to shock incarceration on the i heart radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

This technology is already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.

This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Smokey the barry. Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful. It's the least that you can do. After 80 years of learning his wildfire, Prevention tips, Smoky Bear lives within us all.

Learn more at smoky bear.com. And remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the ad council. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. Wow, Ashley, it is 9.30 at night where I'm at in Orlando, Florida. I'm here for the Diamond Resorts Golf Tournament, and we felt like it was time to have a special, almost famous podcast with the huge bachelor news that came up this week. Yep. So Claire and Dale broke up and if you guys are looking at the post on social media, it doesn't seem like anybody is surprised.

That is kind of sad to say. But I would say that there's been signs. Last week we were talking about how there was a report that there was some tension going on because actually it wasn't even last week. It was a couple days ago. She was holding her mom's hand. And, talking about how it was an emotional day. She wasn't showing off her wedding ring. Claire and Dale hadn't been seen together on social media for, I guess, a little over a week. And Dale had also posted a Bible passage. So people were just thinking that they were going through a rough time at the same time.

So it put up red flags for the fandom. And just yesterday, they confirmed that they broke up. It was kind of interesting the way it, on. unraveled though. So first, there was a report from e-news that Claire and Dale were taking time apart. They said that they've been fighting a lot recently, that the main disagreement was over lifestyle differences, lifestyle preferences, and that Dale wanted to live in a lively big city, focused on his career, and Claire wanted to stay in Sacramento and help take care of her mom. Bottom line is, it was very tense between them.

And then there was also an insider who said that Dale felt like he was rushing into something that he was unsure about. They were still trying to get to know each other, figuring it all out. So the whole bottom line, like earlier in the day, was that taking some time apart was the theme. But it wasn't that long after that report came out that Dale posted a breakup announcement. And this was not a time apart type situation that he was painting a picture of. He was telling everybody it's done. Now, Ben, my theory on this. Yeah.

My theory on this is that Claire and Dale felt like they needed to acknowledge all the rumors. So they put out, or she put out, this is just speculation, that they were taking time apart. And she, in her head, was thinking, maybe we can reconcile, maybe we can figure this out. I don't want to announce anything like a definitive breakup yet. And then I think that that Dale was like, I'm over it. No, this is a breakup. This isn't time apart. And that's why he went on Instagram and just addressed it himself.

I hope not. Like, I really hope that's not how this played out. So there's a lot to uncover here. Obviously, we have a whole podcast that talk about it. Ashley just gave you the headlines and everything going on. Actually, I want to dissect a little bit of what you said. One of the things is you kind of started out by saying it doesn't seem like many people were surprised by this. Well, I think there's a few reasons for that, right?

One is the rumors have been swirling for the last week and a half that something was going on, right? So like the surprise had been taken away. I know when you and I first saw the headlines that there is trouble in paradise, we both in a sense dismissed it because there's always these type of rumors with bachelor couples. And then second, as they continued and we started to read why people were assuming. this, we were shocked at first as well. But the shock were off when it just kept happened, like when the headline just kept coming out every day, that something was going on. So that's one reason why I don't think anybody was shocked. The second reason is obviously the storyline that this couple has with imagination. We've never seen anything like this

before. You know, they came on a show a few weeks later. They leave together. Like when they left together, our hope, as somebody that liked Claire a lot, was like, hey, I hope she's throwing all of her eggs into this basket because she knows 100% that's the right thing that's why then and i want to throw it to you for a second that's why then when the comment is made uh that somebody said dale felt like they're rushing into something well yes but he agreed to that like you know what he knew where claire was at he knew where she stood she knew her and where her intentions were he knew that by her saying dale if you're into this thing like we're going to leave together like he knew the risk that she was taking and so like did he just not like at what like

why now is he going oh we're rushing like back then he knew they were rushing i feel like i'm going to say something that i don't know for sure but i think that a lot of people listening will agree with me on i feel like there were a lot of signs from the start that he was in it for the fame and his instagram was a little bit worrisome early on just like the vibes you got from it just seemed like a guy who, like, wanted the limelight, right? And I think, if I'm going to be super honest, there were a lot of signs during that sit down with Chris Harrison. Like, I really didn't want to believe it. And especially when I was watching, like, her four weeks of the episodes, I was like, yeah, like, I'm into it. I'm just going to, like, try not to be so

cautious because this is a little bit bizarre you know like i don't think love at first sight is bizarre but like i do think that it was an unconventional way of like going through your season and leaving early and not really like getting to know the guy completely but i get it i get it i totally get it and you guys know like how many times i explained like how you were let me pause you though actually i was like trying to be yeah exactly i was but not at first you you you deal won you over because you finally said, I'm going to, like, I'm liking him because of the way he's speaking to Claire and the way he's reaffirming Claire and the way that he's processing like the quick movement of this relationship. You're on his team because you thought he had Claire's

best interest in my. Yeah. So like, I was really hesitant at first and then I was like, okay, I'm just going to be who I am truly, which is the eternal optimist. And then, and I bought, like, I was totally like all in, felt it, felt it, felt it. Until that's it down with Chris Harrison. And I just thought there was like a lot of bi-language things. Like I just felt like he was like trying, he was forcing a smile. I think when she said babies. It's wild that that stood out like everyone.

Like everyone so clearly like yes, it's TV and yes, we watch this. And a lot of times like did it really happen that way? But live TV doesn't lie. And when we all saw that we went, uh-oh, something's wrong here. Yeah, we all did. And like I think some of us tried to like laugh it off. be like oh my god she went straight for the babies and he said marriage but if you rewatch that clip like i did this week it's like all over his face that he's kind of like oh god what have i

gotten myself into i wonder if that's a moment to hit like one of the moments it hit him but you know it's what okay so if you know the your opinion um what your intel to is like hey using it for the fame i wouldn't disagree with you i think like a lot of people are i think he came onto this excited i mean his instagram profile said that he wanted to be a host is that the career now you like you think he's focusing on do we know like is that kind of is the modeling and hosting the career path he's going down and he was maybe at first going on the show like a lot of people do to say hey this is going to help that career and now he found himself in a relationship and now he's like well crap i don't know what to do which just like seriously no shame to

that like i've been very honest that like i had those sorts of intentions as well going on the show. But I also, like I've said, a bazillion times knew that my number one priority in life was finding love, was having a family and all that. And Claire just made it so clear that like marriage and children were her priority in this that I think it was a little bit. I don't know what the right word is. Well, certainly unfortunate that I don't think that. I don't think that. that Dale was ready for that. And I say that because that is one of the things that the insiders are saying.

I only know if it's an insider. I think it actually might be Dale himself who says that he just isn't ready for kids in marriage right now, which is fine. But then you don't go on Claire Crawley's season. You don't do that. You can go on somebody else's season and then be like, okay,

and then we're going to date and we're going to be engaged and we're going to enjoy that for like two years. But you know that Claire wanted that immediately. Yeah, definitely. Well, Ashley, let's take a break here. When we come back, I want to talk to you about some headlines leading up to, you know, their breakup that confuse me and I need your clarity on. We'll be back with the All Musterness Podcast. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum? maximum security prison, or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth.

Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in. it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed.

From a very rural background myself My dad is a farmer And my mom is a cousin So like it's not What do you get when a true crime producer Walks into a comedy club I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke But that really was my reality nine years ago

I just normally do straight stand-up But this is a bit different On stage stood a comedian With a story that no one expected to hear Well 22nd of July 2015 A 23 year old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, and in session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Athea and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal.

Because I think hair is a complex language system, right, in terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyperfixation and observation of our hair, right? that this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel it's how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylists play in our communities, the pressure to always look put together

and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neil Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to therapy for black girls on the iHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more.

Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. and the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate, you can't get back, showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk.

We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candice Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. All right, Ashley. I don't think it was any more than a week ago, maybe two episodes ago, that we read a headline that Dale had gone on to The Bachelorette. He was obviously asked one, but he only went on because Claire Carly was the Bachelorette. Like, and this obviously was a recent article. So he was speaking about.

this and and saying it with you know positive with positive words about clear not more than two weeks ago so do you think this breakup kind of like when do you think it ended um because i remember the headline that came out that said he only went on the season for claire also was kind of coming out alongside the headlines that were saying hey there this isn't going well for dale and clear okay i actually feel like some sort of back alleyway i know when it happened because you know that beach house that they spent some time at a couple weeks ago maybe like a month or so ago it's called it's called lojoya beach house well they reached out to us to see if we wanted to have a little stay there as well so i was going back and forth with the owner and they were like claire and dale are right are there right now um they just can't get enough of it there and that was a week ago last friday so that was like okay so maybe almost two weeks ago okay so i feel like that was i'm totally speculating here but that really aligns with the timing of those instagram posts so i think that that was like

their last trip together like the last extended period of time ahead together yeah well uh i mean i know there's there's a lot of speculation going on uh here and i know having a kind of like a rush podcast about a breakup seems and sensitive. But let's stop here and just say, like, we're just trying to talk about something. It's obviously bigger in Bachelornation. And really, this whole podcast is to go through a lot of the recent breakups in Bacheloretation

because there has been a ton. Quarantine's been hard on people. And it's left some couples kind of looking for answers. Breakups suck. They really suck when they're talked about publicly, but they're going to be talked about publicly. That's part of going on the show. were invested into the love stories of these couples.

I do want to stop here, though, and say, Ashley, I really feel for Claire. Just so much. Like, she really wanted this opportunity. We've been able to speak to her privately a few months back. And, like, being the bachelor, it was a big deal to her. She was very excited for it. She thought this was her chance at love. I remember Chris Harrison telling her, like, this big chance at love.

she felt like she got that second opportunity and now she finds herself it sounds like single again um i mean it just sucks like it's just hard it's hard to process yeah just hard to process where claire is sitting because we all know claire was very invested into this where does this leave claire actually you know claire fairly well like what where does this leave her um i mean i just to hope that she finds somebody like right away and it's a big laughing in Dale's face because she'll end up getting her happily ever after and maybe if it's like the way that you did

maybe this some guy sees her on the show or like she's led to this person because of her involvement in the show I don't know and I just want to clarify what I said earlier about Dale not being ready for marriage and kids that was from the source he's the source says he did have feelings for Claire but just wasn't on the same page as her

he was hoping it would grow and he would come around to this but just no well it's also it's heartbreaking Ben do you remember how excited I was like so so excited when Claire was announced as The Bachelorette

and I was like nobody is more deserving than this And I hate using that we're deserving in this situation because I think everybody truly deserves love. But everything that she went through and like the way she carries herself, I just really felt like it was her time. Well, her time might not be up, Ashley, because there was a recent turn of events. Spacination's very even Spencer Robertson. If you remember, I think he received Chase's like first impression rose and we never really heard from him again. and he has already shot his shot with Claire on Instagram publicly. Is it too soon to do that?

It's not too soon for Spencer to do that. That's cute. It would be too soon for Claire to accept via Twitter or Instagram. Okay. Yeah, you agree? Yeah, I mean, we've talked about many times in the podcast, how soon is too soon. And I don't know if you can answer that. Like, I don't know if there is a good answer.

We've asked everybody. It's whenever Claire feels like she's ready. But yes, Spencer has reached out to her. He's obviously interested. You know, I think we could probably assume that he went on to the season expecting Claire to be the Bachelorette. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we know he has intrigued there.

Not against it. I'm glad he kind of did it. Maybe a little too soon for him. Like maybe he should have just taken a step back if he's really interested in this and said, okay, let me give her some time to heal. But then again, like, what if she is to find something? but he, you know, Prince Charming on the corner, he would miss his shot. So, hey, I can't hate the guy for it. Now, Ashley, to kind of close this thought about Dale and Claire, we have heard

that they're trying to work through this. This has came in from a couple sources that, yes, they're taking time apart. Yes, they, you know, this isn't going well, but they are trying to work through it. Do you believe they're working through it? Do you believe the Claire and Dale story is over if you had to guess? No, I think it's over. I think that's why he put, kind of like the bullet through it yesterday when he posted that Instagram because she hasn't said anything yet so I think he was like this is over

don't want anybody to think that there's hope and I think it's so sad like it's so sad I know like there were just so many breakups this year that we'll go into but like this one definitely ranks as far as the heart wrench goes it really does well as Ashley just mentioned there has been a couple breakups in Bachelor Nation this year

There's some hurt really bad. Most of them hurt really bad. Breakups just hurt in every way. We're going to talk about all these breakups, kind of run through the list. And when we come back with Almost Famous Podcasts podcast. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen and I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum,

the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. Hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin, so, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago.

I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning.

Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. And in session 421 of therapy for black girls, I sit down with Dr. Othia and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right, in terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, you're a spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair,

right, that this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylist play in our community. the pressure to always look put together and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neil Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety.

Listen to therapy for black girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations,

co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just can't replicate,

you can't get back. Showing up to the locker room every morning, just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candice Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.

And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Well, we're back. We're going to talk about the breakups this.

Within the last like 12 months in Bachelor Nation, this list is surprising because there's a lot of people here we know. We love. It's just not ideal. And obviously with the recent news of Dale and Claire, which is huge news in Bachelor Nation, it's a lead and their partner breaking up, we have to talk about it this week because we didn't get to it on the last. episode this week because it hadn't happened yet well actually let me read through this list

there's another big breakup that was announced and this one this one really hurts too it's brie styles and chris watson announced their breakup in january this january uh i mean that one's really hard they're they're from listen to your heart that one sucks and then um j p and ashley uh obviously uh that was one that shocked that's donation for sure The next one's one that I know you have a heart tied to, Carly and Evan. Yeah. Yeah. Crystal and Chris.

Now, that's one that's like really was hard to hear, you know. We like, when it happened, we were like, man, we were there at the wedding. We were excited for them. But then it looks like Crystal has, like, found her perfect match. And so what do you do? Do you sell, you know, it was hard at first, but now we celebrate her. Yeah. Beckett and Garrett.

I know. Now that's one, yeah, that like, you know, I was with him on a bus and there was no signs at the time. I could have never told you that. And then it ended and they've both gone their separate ways, Garrett, you know, I think it's still dating the girl that he moved on to after Becca. Becca's in L.A. now. That one was wild. And then Peter and Kelly. That one, I would say it feels most like Clarendale.

It was like, what's really going on here? This seems wild. This seems crazy. Nobody can keep up with it. so like but i mean that's a wild list and and the one that i don't want to dismiss and i want to hear your thoughts on is the one brie and chris from listen to your heart i mean i watch that show uh for the podcast and not a lot of people in bachelor nation watch that show but we watch that show because we covered it and that was a couple that you're like this is magical like this

this this show's going to work for at least one couple and it's all been worth it that one's tough yeah i felt it between them too uh i guess i feel like for them it like probably was a distance thing i just don't know if they ever really like decided to move closer to each other but then you know there's the age old if you really need to be with somebody you figure that out so they probably weren't meant to be yeah well a lot of breakups and bachelor nation this year hey uh somebody's been there. I'm sorry. This sucks. It's not fun. It's not fun to have to listen to a podcast that people talk about it. It's not fun to see that on TV. But I mean, it is what you sign up for. You know, you sign up to find love. You also sign up for with the risk that that love is going to work and that

everybody is going to talk about your breakup. And here's the truth. The hope, I guess, because I know from my experience, too, is that you're better for it, that you find the love of your life, that Claire finds of her life. We want Dale to find that as well and all these other couples that we just talked about. But until you can do that, there is some grieving that's going to take place. I know from experience. And in just a second, we're going to have one of our favorite guests, Dr. Hilary Goldscher, she came on to a past episode just a few months ago. She is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in Beverly Hills and specializes in treatment of couples relationships, depression, anxiety, trauma, grief, and eating disorders. We're going to just dig into

what it's like to go through a breakup. How do you process best? And then how do you speak to somebody, I think, who is within that trauma and who has been hurt? Dr. Gulsher, why has more bachelor couples broken up this year than any other year in the past? Well, I don't think that we can ignore the fact that we are in a pandemic and all of the rest of the rest of the, and intimacy requirements that that bestows upon couples. And so whether it's a distance challenged or a distance challenge from the standpoint of being away from each other or together too much,

I think it certainly can bring to the forefront issues that can get diluted, particularly in the bachelor world, by all the outside noise and stuff, the fame and the excitement of the activity and attention, attention, I think can dilute some of the core issues that perhaps more easily and painfully reveal themselves in a pandemic setting. You know, it's interesting. It's always helpful to talk to you because obviously we sit and we just had a whole podcast talking about breakups and, you know, Ashley and I were texting before this. We're like, hey, does this feel insensitive? And obviously,

we have to cover the news and we have to cover what's going on in Bachelor Nation. But just like, like last one we spoke to you, how do you talk to somebody that's like just fresh out of a into a breakup? Like they're just starting to like recognize this new season of life. How do you become a friend of them? How do you speak to them? Yeah. Oh, I love that you ask that question. I think it's so important because I think people have go-to tactics in these kind of scenarios, sensitive scenarios that may not be useful. Either they want to move people off of the like painful, difficult feeling or they want to avoid it. So it's not to provoke the painful, difficult feeling. And I think as we talked about

last time, though in a different context, that empathy is the best place to start, empathy and acknowledgement, that being able to say, I know you're going through a tough time, I'm so sorry, that has to be so hard and not being able, not trying to push them to another spot, not trying to use like platitudes or hyperbole, like you're going to be okay. There's so many great guys out there for you or whatever folks might say as meaning to be of support, but disallowing the person to kind of linger on this difficult season of life that they're experiencing. Nobody likes to go to someone and say, I'm really suffering and have someone else say some version of like, you're going to be okay.

Right. That is so annoying. But is it bad that I just said, like, my greatest hope for her is that she finds a guy right away and can show him. Well, look, I think things can coexist, right? We can have these things all coexist. We can both say to someone, I'm so sorry you're in pain. I'm so available to sit with you in it.

We don't have to fix it in this moment. You can just be in the messiness of it. And we can also hold out hopes and wishes for them, right? That I hope you find love. I hope it happens quickly. I hope that the suffering doesn't last as long as one might imagine, right? Those things can coexist. And I think it's okay to allow them to after you've spent enough time lingering in the difficult parts with someone.

It's really important to linger in difficult spaces with people and not try to move over them too quickly. People can feel abandoned or not seen or heard if we do that, even if we have the best of intentions. How common is it in relationships to have one person, to have the breakup be over? the speed of the relationship like I want to have kids and get married right now and the other person being like whoa I'm not in that place of life I think that's a regular theme that emerges for folks and it can be a heartbreaking one because people can have a lot of love for each other and be compatible in so many critical ways but if that lifestyle piece is miscellaneous aligned, reasonable people will decide that they probably shouldn't stay together, do you know? That if people have different ideas about what their timelines are on critical life stuff, like marriage and kids, religion, et cetera, that it makes sense, albeit quite painful decisions to make. It makes sense to decide to part ways if those differences can't be bridge.

And that happens a lot for people. And those are the sources of some of the biggest heartbreaks is when there's love there, but you can't find a way to bridge that gap. Well, it brings us into kind of a question that I think so many people ask. And right now it feels like a good time to ask you. If you were to give your high level, and I don't know if there is one, on when a relationship is no longer healthy and when it does need to end, what are the signs if anybody's out there listening in a relationship where they're like,

hey, I just don't know where this is going. I don't know if this is right or wrong. How would you guide them? How would you counsel them? Yeah, I mean, starting from the general and maybe breaking down to the more specific, I mean, if there is pain more often than pleasure, a conflict more often than peace, if the rhythm of the relationship is intervening with, you know, daily functioning, your relationships with your family being effective at work, your sense of your own self-concept,

those are our times that we really need to do some deep reflection, whether or not a relationship is serving us, you know? So I think that's a more general answer, but a really critical one, that when it becomes invasive in our daily functioning in the critical areas of our life that we want to be content and peaceful, is when we really need to do. deep assessment and deep evaluation. And one of the things that we were just talking about is having conflict or misalignment around critical issues. And of course, communication styles

and ability to navigate conflict is critical. I'm a couples therapist. I work with couples all the time on managing conflict and building intimacy and navigating difficult topics. So it's not that if you have trouble in these areas, you should just break up. that's a mark of any couple, really, is to struggle on some of these critical issues.

But if you find no way through, even with professional help or deep support from family or friends or pastors or, you know, other areas of support and you can't find your way through, it's important to do that deep reflection and whether or not the relationship is serving you. So we saw with Chris and Crystal, she moved on real quick. like really quick. Is there such thing as moving on too soon? I mean, it's such a tough one. I don't think, you know, that one size fits all. And we, I'm sure everyone in your audience knows someone who's moved on too quickly and it didn't serve them. And I'm sure everyone in the audience knows someone who moved on quote too quickly. And it did serve them that it worked out.

Yeah. So I don't think we can we can come up with sort of one approach that makes the most sense. But to the extent that one needs to self-reflect on what didn't work in a relationship and how their own contribution to the dynamics that were dysfunctional, how it showed up, how it emerged, how they managed it, where it comes from, those sorts of self-evaluations and analysis are critical, not just to be in a relationship, but critical to one's own personal sort of sense of groundedness and happiness. So I think post a relationship, it's a good time to do a deeper dive

into some of those issues about how we move through the world, how we move through the relationship. I would always recommend, to the extent possible, taking time to have a post-relationship like analysis, you know, to understand what worked

and what didn't work, what we want moving forward, what we don't. But sometimes timing is a, a funny thing. And someone shows up in our life at a time that arguably isn't ideal, but somehow we can find a way to merge. So I'm saying two things that could be considered conflictual, but in the world of love, it can be, it's not always linear. Yeah, it's such a great note for me that I'm writing down here is the self-awareness,

the analysis, taking time afterwards to be honest with yourself. be honest with the situation and learn from it. Like, I mean, how great a teacher than pain. And there's obviously a lot of couples going through a lot of painful things right now and learning from that feels special. So, you know, to kind of close here, just because we're on the topic, oftentimes, you know, the breakup brings people into a place of anxiety or depression and there's a lot of trauma involved.

How are we to be good friends? And then how do we also notice the signs of those things after a breakup? Yeah, I mean, I think people sometimes fear that mentioning sadness or asking about someone's grieving period will somehow make the grieving worse or bring up something uncomfortable that the person wasn't currently thinking of, but that's not really how it goes. People sort of studies show areas in arenas around this, that when people bring up feelings that are suppressed or already inside of us, it doesn't make the feeling worse. It, in fact, helps it to come up and out of us rather than living inside of us and becoming

toxic or creating symptoms, you know, like anxiety or depression or isolation. So all of this to say that asking, you know, how are you doing or noticing? You still seem really sad. You really seem like you're struggling. How can I help? And if you notice that someone's really struggling, you know, that symptoms are impeding daily functioning, that you help guide them to the notion of outside professional intervention. As you said, the aftermath of a of a breakup can be really traumatic and cause a lot of grief and depression, anxiety, sort of an interruption of one's self-concepts. And those can be really big critical things. And so sometimes a friend and familial support is enough and sometimes outside support is required.

So I would say like acknowledging and noticing out loud and not avoiding the discomfort of that. Well, as always, Dr. Goldscher, it's so great to have you on. Thank you once again for coming and talking to us about some tough topics. This really helps summarize and put everything that we talked about before into a helpful place. Dr. Goldcher, thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. Bye.

Okay. Well, weird episode because, you know, it feels weird for us to talk about people's breakups. But, you know, this is sort of like a huge headline. and that's what we do hear on the Almost It is podcast. We have to talk about huge headlines in Bachelor Nation. So our hearts go out to Clarendale. It's sad. It's

really sad. But we hope the best for them. And until next week when we have better news. And we try to find Matt James a wife. I've been Ashley. And I've been Ben. We'll talk you later, guys. Follow the Ben and Ashley I

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