The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Skip and Go Naked with Wells Adams and Bob Guiney

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

Ben is hitting the links in Carmel-By-The-Sea for the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am and we have a tee time with Wells Adams and our Bachelor Nation OG Bob Guiney! Ben reveals the one person in Bachelor Nation who left him “starstruck”, and we get Bob’s take on Chris Harrison’s next chapter.Plus, could our next Bachelor come from the Dancing with the Stars ballroom?? Wells has a theory that another reality star from the ABC family could become the next Bachelorette. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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almost famous OG Bob Guinea Hi Ben Hi Bob Hey Canyon was supposed to be here Yes she got sick She got sick Yeah she's been sick

A couple days Kind of nursing it Today she woke up though And it was worse than ever And it's funny I was telling someone down in the lobby That when she told me she was sick at 545 this morning

I'm like come on You can't be sick And she's like upset that I'm not being supportive Then I jump in the shower I get out of the shower and I go, you know what, I totally get it, you're right, you're sick.

I don't want you to come because then I don't want you to get anyone else sick. And she's like, oh, great, now you don't want me to come. So I realized I couldn't win, you know? No, you're in a losing battle. Now, she's sick,

and I'm guessing she's really bummed. Not only because she loves to see, you know, be around you, obviously. I'm the least of the, yeah. But like, being here in this town, yeah. She has to just love this place.

She went to school in Berkeley. Yeah. She loves the Bay. She loves Sugarman and talking about their Kappa Kappa Gamma, Berkeley Days. And, you know, loves all of the friends that we have that have become a part of this tradition here. That it's just a really great group. And I think she really enjoys being a part of it. Yeah.

And so, like she even said, she's like, you got to understand. Like, she was so upset. She's like, I miss. She's like, I would rather miss so many other things that we do over this. It's your favorite thing. It's every year, no matter what's going on. Like this is coming here and being with everybody and just hanging out and drinking wine,

watching golf is this is a special place. It is. I want to dig into your marriage a little bit. Oh, good. I can't wait. That's exciting. Bob, when something like this happens, it's turned into a guy's trip for you now.

She's not here. It has. Do you in your marriage keep a scoreboard? So like she's now going to get to have a girl's trip because you did a guy's trip? You have to understand. I am the king of encouraging girls trips. I'm with you.

Oh my God. If I even hear a whisper of a girl's trip that they don't even know her, I'm introducing her to them and saying, she's a lot of fun on a girl's trip. You should take her. She's a good cook. I love her going on girls trips

because then when I have something come up, I mean, you know, one of the things I was really looking forward to was the trip with you in the fall where I ended up having some deal or no deal stuff I have to do. And that was one of my guy trips that I was very excited about, you know?

So yeah, we don't necessarily keep score, but, you know, there's definitely some score keeping going on. But see, I can theoretically, I can not count this as a guy's trip because she was supposed to come. Well, and, like, I'm very much against score boards and marriages. Indeed. And I'm with you where it's like, if Jessica comes to me and says, I'm going to go out with my friends for five times this year. I'm like, great. Like, I mean, that's one of the reasons I think our marriage is so healthy because we're both very, very encouraging of like, hey, I want you home.

I want you hanging out with me. Yeah. But when the opportunity arises that you can go have friends, go get out there and do it. You got to do it. Especially, and I'll say this too, you know, especially with you guys with a young baby at home. You know, my kids now are seven and four and a half. But for me, Jessica gave up a lot of her social life for our boys. And I didn't.

You know, I mean, don't get me wrong. I love having our kids and I stay home as much as I can. I really love having kids because I can use it as an excuse not to do stuff. Yeah. Like I'll be like, oh, I'd love to go to that guys, but I can't. I got to stay home with the kids. Oh, I do that a lot. You know, I do it a lot.

It's a great. It's a buddy of mine when I was living in Seattle told me it was going to be the best blessing. And he was right. It really is a great one. But I want her now to do stuff so that she realizes how much I appreciated that sacrifice because I really didn't make that same sacrifice because I was still out doing my thing. And so I encourage it as much as I can. Like this past week, for example, she went out,

and it's probably why she's sick, to be honest. She went out Wednesday night and Thursday night with friends for pre-planned things. And then something else got rescheduled to Friday night. And she had to do something on Friday night, too. She's never, she hasn't had something three nights in a row in years. I don't know if I'm prepared to do stuff three nights in a row. I know I'm not anymore. I used to be.

I used to be prepared for, you know, 14 nights in a row. Things have changed for me. Now, when you go away, you've been married for how many years? We've been married. This will be our 10th year of marriage in November of 26. I think people are interested. When you travel and she's back at home with the boys or, for example, this time, sick. Yeah.

Are you FaceTiming her quite a bit? I will. So it's kind of funny. Canyon and I have an interesting dynamic with this one because the answer is yes. I'm FaceTiming. I'm FaceTiming her, but she's pointing. the phone at the boys. Okay.

Especially when she's sick. So she won't even be on, you know, but we had a nanny schedule for this weekend and the nanny's still there. To help now. I told her, I'm like, we're going to keep her because you need to rest. Yeah. Because we're supposed to go on, you know, midwinter break next week. So, but anyway, yeah, I'll FaceTime and she will point the phone at the boys.

But she'll call me and, you know, we'll check in a few times. But not much. She's not a big checker in her. Yeah. You know, I mean, I am. I would talk for hours at a time. She has no interest. That's, I mean, that's funny because I...

I'm needier, I think. Yeah, well, yeah. And like, Jessica and I, my wife, like, I won't talk to her much. Yeah. I mean, we'll text and I'll call her one or two times a day. But I don't want to be on FaceTime. I don't want to be on the phone. Yeah.

I would honestly, if it was, if I did not have a kid at home, I would leave my phone at the hotel the whole weekend. Like, I just don't love being on it. Yeah. On the opposite. I want to like, for example, well, for example, like today, I, you know, I wanted to check with how Grace and School Day was, you know, because he does this check in, check out thing that he's got, it's, it's behavior related and we want, we wanted to get 75% or better every day and he's

been on a roll. So I was like, right when I landed, I called. I'm like, all right, how to go? And he gets on the phone. Daddy, I got 91%. Like, yeah. So I'm like fired up about that. Then Blake gets on the phone.

And Blake wants to tell me that he's getting great scores too, even though they don't do. the same form for him. So I'm like, oh my God, that's great, Blake. Like, I really love those moments, you know. So I do that kind of stuff. And then, I mean, you know, now I'll text her later tonight, probably like, just be like, you know, we miss you tonight, you know, whatever. But yeah, I think, you know, it's, it probably was a lot different when we first started dating and, and we're first married. Oh, goodness. I was on the phone for hours. Yeah. Not anymore. We were both down for that. Oh, yeah. The hard part for me is, uh, I've, the last, and I've cut back on this a lot. So I'm not last at the end of the last year

I was traveling a bunch and it got really hard but it was stuff I had like committed to a year previously um this year I've made a like an effort to not be gone as much but the last 10 days I've been gone just based on life and then I'm home

um the the hard part for me is facetiming my daughter I get really sad oh sure because you're not there I'm not there yeah she's one years old this week I know I'll be back for that. Which I was very, I was so sad when I thought you weren't going to be coming.

I know. But then when you're like, I'm in, I'm like, all right, here we go. I love it. Yeah. I really, I wanted to be here. I needed to be here. But I don't love FaceTiming my family. Yeah.

Only because I get so sad. Like when when he says, dadda, dadda, dadda, and I'm gone. And I can't just like wrestle her and blow on her belly. Yeah. Do all the fun stuff. It's just too much. Yeah. The good part is she's not old enough yet to get sad herself.

Like she's just pumped to like hear my voice. Oh yeah. She has no clue. She has no clue. Yeah. Yeah. Once she starts to like get sad that I'm gone, you'll never see me again. You know what?

I know I know that that is true. Knowing you, I know that's true. You'll never see me leave my home. Like Grayson doesn't get sad. Blake will get sad if he's needing me to stick up for him. You know, because he's good brothers messing with him or something. But it's not really that they're sad. that I'm not there.

They're sad that, you know, the functions of my day aren't there for them. Yeah. We're going to be out here playing golf. We like to talk about golf in very specific ways here on the show because it bores everybody. But we are going to play a little golf. Have you been practicing?

No, I have not. Good. I have, you know, I live in Michigan. So there's been no golf. However, last week I went out and played Evermore in Orlando.

Have you guys played there yet? You were in Orlando? week? Yeah. Wells and I were in Orlando last week. I know. I was very jealous when I saw your post. Why don't you come say hi?

Joey, I'm like, Joey, who the hell's Joe? Oh, that's right. Joey, the most recent and super popular Bachelor guy. But yeah, I saw you guys post. I was so,

I loved it. I loved it. I loved that you guys were doing the strut. And I thought that was great. It was at the Hilton Grand Vacation's tournament of champions. Wells did beat me again. Well,

Wells is so damn good. He's a good golfer. What I love about Wells playing golf and I love to, Tell me. Tell me what you're doing about me. I love this about you and your brother as well, who I'm very excited to see this week, is that they are the perfect mix of fun and golfing.

Oh, they're great people. There's never a shortage of cocktails, never a shortage of... In fact, here's something I said, Bob, that... And I loved Adam's brothers so much. And I love being around them. I love playing. Like, I just, I love them. I made a comment.

It was two years ago today. On this trip, we were playing the preserve out here in Monterey. That place so much. And one of the Adams brothers cracked open like a high noon. And it was, you know that. Such a glorious sound. And I made the comment.

I said, the sound of playing golf with the Adams brothers. And we might have a problem. No. And Brett, still to this day, will bring that common up. Like, remember it. But it's never in this like, yeah, that was a, it's like this, like, he was like hurt. No. Really? No. It's a point of pride for my brother. First of all, I was going to say one of the greatest compliments that was ever given to me. I can't remember which one of you it was. I think it was you, Ben, when you were like, you kind of remind me of Brett. And I was like, oh. Especially, well, I didn't even know what we were talking about until I met him. And I was like,

What an amazing compliment that one. He's a great guy. Because I really enjoy him. Like he is funny. And it's like, and you know, I can see you can tell he and Wells have that similar sensibilities,

which I just love. No, my brother, there are very few people in the world that really are uniters and like bring people together. I know I'm not one of those people. But my brother is and you are as well.

Oh, thank you, buddy. That's a huge compliment. I agree that like you guys are both handsome. and like for some weird reason, like cut from the same cloth. I could hang out with him literally every day. Like it's part of the joy of this trip for me is that the golf is very challenging because I'm not as good as you guys. And it's like I'm out there and I'm struggling.

But I'm having such a great time just with the mix of people that we have out there. And your brother is such an imperative part of that for me because I just love him. There are unique people in the world. And I'm with Wells where, uh, When they're there, you know that they're going to kind of wrap their arms around the environment. You do that. Brett, does that? I would say Wells does that too.

I would say you do too well. But you know it's going to be a little better because they were there. And you do that, Ben. You definitely do that. But it is true with you. And I think that's unique. But I meant it as not a compliment, but like it is when I think about playing golf with the Adams brothers. I'm thinking about one, wanting to beat them.

Yeah, of course. And two, it's going to be competitive enough where I like go to bed the night before excited to beat them. But chill enough because the drinks will be flowing. And then you hear like a light, that sounded like, yeah. Now we've gone away from that now.

Oh, hell we know. They both quit. Yeah, they both quit. But the the, the drinks will be flowing. And so you'll have a great day. And that it's just spectacular, which I want to ask you both actually since we're sitting here. I'll ask you first, Wells.

Do you think having a drink on the course makes you a better golfer? Yes. I hate that that's true, but I think it does a lot of things. It puts me in a happier mindset. And I think if you're happy on the golf course, things are going to go well. I also think I can do crazy things when I'm a little drunk.

But also that's what golf is. And also what life is, too. I think that's why I like golf so much is that. the way to hit the shot that you want to is you have to envision it. You have to like manifest it. If I'm a little drunk, I'm like, I can do this. And then I'll do it. You know, it's when I'm questioning myself is when it goes.

The shank happens, you know? When you're sober. Yeah, exactly. If you just live your life, like a little, like, a couple cocktails before noon. Are you, are you a better golfer? Absolutely. What's your drink of choice? Tito's a soda with a lemon wedge.

Oh, that's good. wedge. Always a lemon wedge. Have you ever done it with a orange? I have recently and I really love it. Very nice. Oh my God. I think I might even like it better.

Yeah. But yeah, so even last week, you know, I hadn't played in two months and go out with a bunch of my buddies who are very good golfers. And we're playing, we're playing Evermore, which is designed to be like the,

where they play the, where you guys play in Scotland. Yeah. St. Andrews. And like the first and last hole are designed to be kind of a replica type of hole or, or whatever that, whatever they call that.

And we're out there. and I have a nice buzz going because I haven't played and I'm like, this is gonna suck. All my buddies are like twos and threes and I'm 15 or whatever I am. And I get up there and on the first hole I chip in from like 50 out.

And I'm like, oh my God. I figured out this game. I figured out this game. Then I was, I'm like, I am amazing. And then I quit drinking for two holes and fell apart. The wheels came off. I think I lost a sleeve of balls

and I went back to drinking. And then I was playing catch up. So then I got two drunk. Yeah, you know, there's a fine, it's a fine balance. But no, without question. Like, I enjoy golf so much more with a little buzz because I do like to have the music going. I like to have drinks.

I'm usually not going to be in the top tier of golfers out there by any stretch. But I love watching it. And I love the etiquette of the game. So I like to keep it moving. Like I'm, I'm the worst golfer, but I'm never the slowest golfer. You know? Yeah, that's big. I like to keep it moving.

If a ball goes in the woods, I'm like, and I'm dropping. Let's go, you know. Just don't be the slowest. ever. You can be bad. Just be bad fast. Be bad fast. Exactly. Especially when you're playing with guys who are really good. And it's like, you know, so my thing is like, I'm in charge of drinks. I'm in charge of tunes.

Yeah. And I'm in charge of the fact that my backpack weighs 25 pounds because we have, you know, two cases of balls in there. The other thing is that like you, I know I do the same thing when I play with players that are better than me that like I really want to perform well. But no one cares what you're doing. Right. Like, you know, it's all in your head.

Yeah. But like, you think everyone's watching you. Yeah. No one gives everyone so self-centered and egocentric that they don't care at all what's happening with you. It's all in your mind. As long as it's fast. Exactly. Yeah.

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And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemada, Moore House College, The students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die.

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What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. and immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro.

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podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, and the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

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It depends. Why? Is it to depend? Weather. Oh, wow. I play a bartender on TV. That's right. You may not know this. So if it's cold out, I really do just like a bourbon neat. I think there's something really elegant about doing like a whiskey run, like a four whole thing at like 4 p.m. during the wintertime. Yeah. That's very nice.

But obviously if it's hot out, like there's nothing better than like a really ice cold Coors light. Oh yeah. Which is almost like water. Yeah. Like it's something. That's true. But then also like I'm with you. the tequila soda, but I do the orange thing.

At our club, we call it the Fonseca. And it's a drink that is refreshing, but it's gut bite. So it takes you a while to drink it. You don't just pound it. Yeah. You're in Burbank, you're in Burbank, right? Yeah. God, I love that course, man.

Lakeside, great course. Godly, I love that. That might be one of my favorite. First of all, it's one of the greatest courses to flyover as well. And it was Bob Hope's home course, right? Yeah, and Bing Crosby. Collie. It's where it's where we're now kind of like started.

It was born, yeah. I would love to be invited someday. Anytime you're in L.A., let me know. I will. I for sure will. You know what I've been liking recently at Tom Collins? Oh, yeah. I like a good Tom Collins.

I was going to make a Tom Collins. Vaca. Okay. I actually, I think mine's like a little bit of a, because you're supposed to add sugar and I don't love sugar in my drinks. Yep. So I do Sprite with lemonade. Okay.

So it's sort of, well, okay. So when you said Tom Collins, I think I was thinking of a skip and go naked. Well, I think it's a gin actually. What's a skip and go naked? Oh, skip and go naked is one of my favorite. Oh, we did that last night, but what is the drink? I saw the video. A skip and go naked is vodka, lemonade and beer.

Oh. But Coors Light is the best beer for it. Yeah, yeah. So you do like a, I don't know, you probably do the beer is the last thing, but you go vodka, you do a little bit of lemonade, maybe a splash or two lemonade. And then you throw some beer on top. For some fizzle. Oh my God. It's for the fizzle.

Oh, my God. That's one that I didn't respond with, but is true. When I'm at the club, I drink a lot of vodka lemonade's. Yeah. But like vodka, lemonade and then soda water to like a little sprit. You got to have bottles. I don't want so much sugar. Yeah.

The lemonade can be too sugary. That's a great drink. But now the beer thing. Skiff and go naked. Great for our boating, you know, drinking on the water. I've never even heard of beer and vodka together being good. But I think actually Tom Collins is supposed to be a gin, but I'm just not a big gin fan. But something like that is so refreshing on a summer day.

And I only asked the question to you, Wells, because I'm very similar. My drink of choice is very dependent on the weather outside. Okay. Like my burb- I love a good bourbon. Everybody listening knows I love a good bourbon. Ashley just sent me a great bourbon the other day. But once the weather gets above 65, you won't see that opened up again. until it gets cold.

But like sitting by the fire with a glass of bourbon neat, read my book or talking to Jess, I'm all in. See, bourbon neat to me, you guys are true bourbon lovers. Like for me, I've got to have a rock in there.

I've got to have something because it's got to be a rich jelly. But I will tell you, I never had tried rye before. And I was at a buddy's place in Florida. We played, he lives in Claremont, Florida, which is right near Orlando,

just outside of Orlando. We played his home course. It was awesome. We go back to his house. And he's like, I'm going to pour some rye. And I'm like, uh, probably not my thing, man. I don't, I don't drink scotch.

He's like, no, this is different. And he, of all things, he pours Angels Envy Rye. Great. Who I've gotten to know for years. The Wes, who was the former, I don't know what you call him. He's not a brew master, but I don't know what you would call that guy. Distillor. Distillor.

For Angels Envy for many years. And now he went off and started his own brand called Story, which is really cool. But he pulls out this bottle of Angels Envy Rye. And I was just like, holy smokes. This is spectacular. Yeah. And now I'm kind of in the mood for it tonight. because it is kind of chilly.

A rye, old-fashioned is a very good drink. Oh, I'll have to try that. I've never had that before. See, we're bartoneering up here on the show today. On the hottest day, I will start off with a transfusion or a screwdriver. I had two years of a transfusion phase kind of when I was on the course. The grape juice is tough. But it was just too much sugar for me.

And I was always like, you'd have one. You know, and Wells knows this. I don't love the drink on the course. Yeah. I'm too competitive. I get mad at myself. if I like, you should start trying. Because you've been losing recently.

I'm not getting my strokes from Wells that I should be getting right now. Oh, boy. I get five strokes from him around. And he's not giving them to me anymore. Are you talking about golf? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, we're still talking about. What are we talking about right now?

Cart play. Like, what do we do? Who in this group is the biggest sore loser? I would say Wells. Me for sure. Yeah. If I beat you, it affects you more than when you beat me. Maybe it's just because the expectation is that you beat me.

Yeah, I'm just an emotional being. I know what I am. But it was really funny. We were playing with Joey. I was playing with Joey in the final day of this Orlando thing. And Ben was in the group in front of us. And I started out, I think, in the last place. And I was like, I'm going to catch up.

Don't worry. And then I started to catch up. And then I was playing really well. And then things started going sideways. And I know Joey started to catch up. And in the last hole, Joey goes, do you want to know what the point total is right now? And I was like, no, I don't. And he was like, come on, it would be really fun if you knew.

And I was like, I do not want to know. Do not tell him. And he was like, come on. And so what happened was on the last hole, it was a par five for us. That sucks to you. I make birdie. Okay. So that's like three points.

Joey gets up and down for par, that's two points. I end up beating him by one. Oh my goodness. I was only up by one. So he wanted to be like, get in my head. Right. And I was like, I'm not letting you, like, can't let you in there. Smart move.

I'd be so angry. Yeah. So yeah. You know, if he would have, if he would have parted that hole, he tied with me. He didn't know this. We were in the same group. So I was watching. So did you and Joey tie then?

Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's a good group, you guys. I won. Well done, brother. Thank you. Will we be betting this week on the golf course? Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. Here's really like my, what we need to like close out with here is we've been doing this for a few years. This is always special. I didn't know Bob before like these trips started to happen. And I told Wells is today, Bob. I said, if I look at my top 10 list of favorite memories over the last 10 years, 10 years. Oh, you've got to have so many, too. Like, there's moments with both of you in those.

Close on. Our Napa trip. Various states of undress. Our Napa trip. That was really special. Really fun. Well, wasn't it wasn't able to make that one. But you and I had, I just love those moments. Yeah. You know, the, that was a nice bonding trip for us. It was great. We had to spend a lot of the time together. It was like, those things are fantastic. We're going to have that this week. Um, I'm going to ask you both. I talked about a little bit ago, but I'm going to ask you both this question. I have two more questions for the two of you.

I want your opinions to be shared. A lot of things has changed in this franchise that has brought us through this point and why we sit here today. And they just casted Taylor Frankie Paul, who we talk about very often right now in this show, as the next Bachelorette. All things aside,

Taylor Frankie Paul is changing how we're going to be doing this show for the next year. She is a star that they've made the Bachelorette. It's like having a Kardashian in a lot of ways that they talked about now as our bachelor at. What do you? I think the Nader sisters are next. Ooh, that's what I need out of this.

I wanted to ask you guys like, where do they go from here? They keep doing it. They keep doing it. They also have a reality TV show that's also a part of the ABC Hulu family. And it like to me, Rob Mills, if you're listening, it seems like such a home run. So when you said that, I immediately thought of the twin basketball sister. from Miami. Oh.

But that's not them, obviously. No, it's not. Not even close. The native sisters, Brooke, Grace, Anne, Mary, and Sarah Jane. They're all beautiful. But.

And great at being on TV. Is it sustainable? Oh, I know who you're talking about. She was on Dancing with Stars with them. Is it sustainable to have a celebrity? So they looked at this a long, long time ago. So I don't know if you guys remember Chriselle from now.

She was on Selling Sunset. Yeah. I did traders with her. Oh, that's right. You did. I forgot about that. So many, many years ago, they approached her about being the Bachelorette. She was on all my children with my ex-wife. Oh, really? I didn't know she was like, okay. Yeah. And it was really interesting because at the time, she was in this on again, off again, romance with one of my buddies, too.

Well, Graham Bunn, who you guys know from, you know. He was on the Bachelorette. What was it, Deanna season, I think? I had noically. Yeah, Deanna season. And they, you know, and I loved Criselle. because shell i got to know her from my my ex-wife and stuff and when they approached her i was like oh my god that's brilliant for whatever reason i think she said no to them i don't think i don't think they would have said no to her um at the time and she said no because i think she got re-upped for all my children or whatever it was i don't really i don't know any of her business so i don't pretend to but

um it was one of those situations where i was like wow that was that would have been huge you know what a crossover because that's all disney's about right is that synergy and that crossover and so i think it's really interesting now that they finally did it and it's going to I think you're right. I think the genie's out of the bottle at this point, right? Especially if she has really good ratings on her season. I think that's going to really kind of spell the future for the franchise because it has been suffering over the last couple of years. You guys are both The Bachelor.

So you can look at it through a different prison than I can say I was never the Bachelor. But, you know, it's not easy to be the lead, right? Like it's a very, very difficult job. and one of the reasons why I think that this might be a great play going forward is that there's no doubt that Taylor Frankie Paul is very good at being on television. And being the star of that television show, like, you can say whatever you want, but like if you watch the Mormon show, she's like the main character, right? She's risen about. And there's something about someone who's really, really good at being able to command the room and own it and like be the star. which for people who are not television stars beforehand,

although you guys, it probably took you a little bit, right? Like, that's what The Bachelorette is. It's a audition process to see if you can't handle being that person. You're absolutely right. And I think it's a good thing. And, you know, I'm so far removed from The Bachelorette and the Bachelorette, but obviously I still work in Paradise. And one of the things I've always fought for and I've never won,

but I feel like we're getting closer to is why does Paradise have to just be people from The Bachelor. Like, why can't it be people from The Challenge? Why can't it be people from Survivor? Like, who cares? Let's get big stars in there. People who are good at making television. Yeah.

Let's get them on TV. Like, there was a season a couple years ago where we almost got Johnny Bananas was supposed to come on the show. And the connected tissue was me because I did a cooking show with him. Right. And I was like, I was sitting with producers and they're like, what is Johnny going to do? And he's going to come in here and he's going to blow everything up.

And it's going to be amazing. television. Yeah. And it ended up not happening because I think he won the challenge. He was like, I'm going to try to lose a challenge and then come to paradise. Then he ended up winning it. But I do think that it's a necessary change that has to happen. I think that the franchise has been resting on their laurels for a long time with just

like it being this cultural phenomenon. And now they're losing ground to the Love Islands. and they're losing ground to all the other dating shows. Evolution has to have. And you have to get back to what made that show great, which is like big television stars. You know, the big problem that we have in Paradise is that your co-host got freaking married

because she was amazing in Paradise. Right. Right. She really was. She was a great television star. She cried all the time. She got so emotional. And I feel like this casting,

is like getting us back to that thing. I agree with that. You're teaching me something right now. It's a little insider baseball and I don't know, but. No, no, it's good. I want to see if I can get my thought out. You know, the show had to evolve, as you said. Like it did.

And I think maybe, and you correct me, you correct me. I think the show tried to evolve, especially with what we saw with Paradise last season, right? Yeah. Different type of cameras, different type of shots. different type of setup, all these things. Totally different production. Totally like to evolve.

I want to talk to you about that because I didn't realize we had that in common. I work with those guys all the time. Really? Yeah. Scott? Yeah. Oh, nice. But I'm wondering if the answer is what you were saying right in front of us the whole time.

The whole show didn't need to evolve. But who was leading the show needed to. Because when they announced Taylor Frankie Paul, I was against it. Not because of her. Yeah. But because the idea that we were going to bring in the, celebrity to lead a show that was supposed to be the common person finding love. But the show had to do something.

It was dying. And now they've done it. I think it will have great ratings. I think a lot of people tune in and watch. And maybe that is the answer is for the next chapter of 20 years, you're just picking who, you know, somebody that's out there who has a name known. The rumor right now, and I actually think based on what our team did research on, it's very likely to happen

is the next bachelor will be Robert Irwin from Dance With the Stars. I said that a while ago. I could see that. He might be too young. He's pretty cares, man. How young is he?

He's early 20s. But I do think that that's, if I'm, but that's not a bad choice. I'm thinking, well, this guy was huge on. He was magic on dancing. Yeah, 22 years old,

like he was huge on dancing with the stars. Obviously, everyone loves him. because of the pedigree of which he comes. His family. Yeah. And also, like, why don't you do the show? You can do a show with a 22-year-old, just cast younger people. Well, and also, you know, I think that one of the things that's probably always been a flaw of the show, if we're being really honest, is that it's a failure if there's not a wedding at the end, right?

And I think that's, in large part, what kind of doomed the Golden series, too, was that they were so pushing for the marriage and then look what happened, right? Yeah. everybody shut the bed and they get a divorce a month after. Yeah. So it's like I think sometimes, you know, creating a couple that has some staying power can be equally as victorious as someone getting down on a knee. And you can still propose at the end, but it doesn't have to be like a huge star-studded wedding, you know, three weeks later.

It might be the only show on television right now that could have huge celebrities lead it. Yeah. Because every other show, like, you're not getting a Taylor Frankie Paul to show up to love. Island, right? There's, she's one of 20 other people. But she's the lead of the show. You could convince some really big names who are 22 and single or 36 in single to say, hey, we're literally, you've been wanting to get married. You've been wanting to find your part. We're going to set you up. Yeah. And you're going to be the star of this franchise. And I'm, I'm just picturing it here. We're like, Taylor Frankie Paul gets married. And like, they're known for getting married from the, like,

years later, 20 years on the road, we're like, oh, yeah, they're that celebrity couple who got, who met on the Bachelor and she was a celebrity before. And it just rises even higher. Like the name gets even more prominent. And at some point, they have huge home runs like a Kardashian. Right. Or, I mean, Taylor Swift obviously is engaged in getting married. But like when she was single, like somebody huge, everybody's rooting for meeting somebody. All of a sudden, they're leading a show that you're watching them date on national. television. I will say this though. Yeah, you can cast a Kardashian, you can cast a gigantic

star, and this is no knock on you guys, but the truth of the matter is, is that the show, really, the stars of the show is always the, you know, if you're the Bachelor, it's the, all the girls there. Of course. If you're the Bachelor, it's all the guys there, right?

And so Taylor, Frankie Paul, might be amazing television. And I, I know she's amazing television, but it really counts on casting of like these guys that come with her. And so it'll be interesting to see what happens. You know, back to your point earlier of like it's unsuccessful if someone doesn't get married. I think that's why Paradise has always been more successful than the other two is because our stakes are lower. Expectations are lower. You don't have to get engaged. In fact,

I don't really care. Leave together. Lovely. I would love that shot of you getting in that, you know, that black car together. and driving off. Driving off under the sunset. You know? And then waiting two months to go do a reunion show and seeing what's going on.

Don't really care. And when you, I think when you tell the cast that, because when you're doing the Bachelor of the Bachelor, you're so like, I have to engage it. You know, it's like,

yeah, you can leave if you want, whatever. It doesn't really matter. And then those relationships end up lasting because they've taken the pressure off of it and they're letting people

be honest with each other. You know, to your point. So long, long time, They had asked me to talk to some of the younger bachelors coming up. And I remember I got kind of some heat for what I had said at the time, which I was like, guys, and I was, they thought I was being too self-deprecating, but I was being genuinely honest. It was an assessment I had after the show. I know Heather's heard me say it a million times, but I was like, the show is not about you.

Like, I'd say this to whoever's going to be the next bachelor's, I'm like, it's not about you. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, it's about the fact that they just cast 25 or 30, women who have never lost a thing, especially to that chick over there, right? You could be a monkey hand that on a flower. They're going to cry at the end of this thing because they didn't get a rose. Not because you're that great because you're not. I mean, let's be honest, 90% of these dudes are trainers living in their mom's basement

at the end of the day. And I didn't say this, right? You're not wrong. I got a little grief over that. You know, I'm not going to lie. But the truth was, I really believed it. Like, I feel like if, and I do feel like if guys went into that and I wouldn't say the women so much because the Bachelet series is a lot more successful, but

if guys went into that with a little more of that humility. Yeah. And they were like, I'm working for this relationship as much as they are. Yeah. Because that's really what the mindset needs to be. But if the guys are trying to then, but instead, it's like the guys think all these women need to kiss their ass because they're the bachelor guy. Yeah. That's not it at all.

Right. And that's why this show, I think, is suffered a little bit. I think that for The Bachelor, the onus is on the Bachelor to convince the audience that they are deserving of what's happening tonight. Right. Yes. So you have to have that mental gymnastics, right? Like, why are you so awesome that the hottest 25 girls are here, ladies, are here for you? For you.

Why does this make any sense? And why are they acting crazy and getting mad at each other and everything else? They don't even know you. Yeah. And like, like we talked about Joe earlier, Joey did a really good job of that. Like he's a stand-up guy, athletic, handsome, all this stuff. And then, like, he showed all those parts. And I think that that's why that season was so successful

is because everyone was like, yeah, I get it. Yeah, I buy it. I did. It's one of the first seasons I tuned back in. Yeah. I would say, too, the lead is what we started this conversation out with. When you are somebody who can change the environment of a room by connecting people, I do think the season is better.

And I think Taylor Frankie Paul and people who have done television before are big enough personalities to set the tone for the room. When the women are there and they're like, yeah, he's The Bachelor and he's handsome, but like, I don't really see this working out. The whole show, the tone of the show is going to be different. The stars of the show are the cast, but the lead has to be somebody that brings the most out of the cast. Yeah, it was the connective tissue for everything. Everything. Because if the lead is not great, the cast is going to be like, well, I'm cool drinking wine in the hotel room with my girlfriends right now.

I make some great friends on this journey. But they're not going to be fighting over it. They're not going to be sad if they get broken up. They're going to be like, this was fine. I went to Scotland and hung out for four days. So I do think this, like the Robert Irwin's and the Taylor Frankie Paul's, I do think they'll have that it factor enough to where the cast will be like, no, if I can marry a Taylor Frankie Paul, if I could date her, like she's so great.

I've seen her on television. I do think the cast will be a little bit more like, like, pulling at everything to be like, I want more time with her. I want her to know me better. Maybe willing to compete harder. Yes. Okay. So obviously the big cliche, overused, trite thing is being there for the right reasons.

Right. The only issue that I can foresee casting these giant stars as the lead is, is the motivation for the cast that's trying to date these people and eventually get married. are they there for the right reasons? Like, are you going on Taylor Frankie Paul's season so you can maybe be on Secret Lives of Borman Wives of Mormon Wives season five? Right.

And, you know, like, you would hope, though, that they... I'm not saying that that's the truth, but that's going to be something that's going to be brought up. You know it's going to be a storyline. Right. Like, you're just here because you want to be on a reality TV. You don't really care about love. I can hear that story right now.

You would hope, though, that that would be... My point was, is, like, she could see that quickly. Like those types of people, right? She'd be like, you're not here to date me. You're here because you want to be on television. It's not that dissimilar to you going on the show for Jojo, watching her during the season that I was The Bachelor, right? It's not dissimilar to me going on the show for Caitlin,

watching her on Chris Souls this season. Like, it's, I went on there. And when I met Caitlin for the first time, I was starstruck. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, I've watched. you for, you know, three months of my life on television. And it just ended last night. And now I'm in front of you. And I don't know. And I'm supposed to be like romantically interest. You're supposed to be romantically interested me. And I'm like, this is weird. It's not that dissimilar. It's not. Yeah. It's like a suspended. What do you call that?

suspended disbelief or whatever. And then you get to me. I'm just telling you what's going to be a story. Oh, 100%. 100%. I think you're, I think you're spot on. But my point is, you're spot on. I'm just hoping that like we're not watching television being like, Taylor, he's only one to go on Secret Lives and Mormon Wise. He doesn't actually like you. He wants to be in a mom talk video.

I mean, who doesn't, right? I mean, honestly. Celebrate your pride with the station that's as bold, vibrant, and diverse as you are. I heart pride, Kinda. From dance anthems to pop icons and hits from 2SLGBTQ plus Canadian artists. It's the soundtrack that. keeps life loud and proud.

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I'm Hans Charles. Arminolik Lamumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almermata, Moore House College, the students had their own protest.

It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. And a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader. in Chicago. This story is about protest.

It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. So keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage. But it's also the story of one woman. who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays

on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor, Michael, love and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yin. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast,

in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bob, hi, Matt. Hey. Hello. Hey Matt, hey Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.

Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Final thing today is Wells and I just talked about a little bit ago, Bob, and I want to talk about it, the three of us together now because I do think it's a big deal. somebody else that made a starstruck and somebody else that is creating a show that Wells has commented on and said it should just be called there for the right reasons. Yeah. Chris Harrison. Yes. Our buddy, our friend is returning to television after five years away. He is going to be doing a dating show that will be on a prominent streaming network.

It's gotten a lot of press recently for multiple reasons. One of them being that in the caption, it says they're looking. they're looking for people who desire a traditional marriage. Tread wife. That's what I'll say. Great lines, right.

Yes. This is why our wives are friends. I'm telling you. We think the same way. I know your marriage and I know that you expect a cocktail at five, dinner be made, house to be clean.

Feet up. Yeah, you want your feet rubbed at the end of the day. I know that's how your life works. gently. Oh, ab. Yeah, clearly. Yeah. I think that's interesting. The trad wife, because I don't think L. Z's a trad wife. That's what I told Wells.

My point was, when we read this, the angles, you know. We have to also understand that Chris does not live in a world where a traditional marriage, yes. Right. But when people are taking it to like being this idea of what I was just joking about, which is like the man expects the women's, woman to like make the house. That's not Chris Harris. That's not Chris. So I guess my question that we should end on the discussion here is one, what do you think of him coming back on TV? I think it's great for TV.

Two, what do you think of this new show? I love you, dude. I, first of all, I love Chris Harrison. And I think that Chris Harrison is great for television. I think that he's a great person. I think that what happened to him was horribly unfortunate. The situation that he was in was horribly unfortunate. in it. And I love Lauren Zima and I love their relationship. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I think that will be great for that show will be that you're going to have a really talented host who knows how to help people work through emotional situations. I mean, Chris was part-time counselor, part-time therapist, part-time buddy, part-time TV host when I was the bachelor. And I remember thinking to myself, especially some choices I made right at the

end, I wouldn't have made them had he not been a voice of reason for me. And I think it really affected how people have seen me since then, which is thankfully very favorably for the most part. And I think I owe that to him. I think it's great. I think it's really great that he's back on TV. I think that you're right. The portrayal of what this show is supposed to mean by traditional marriage, it probably just means two people being monogamous to one another and, you know, working towards a great future. That's probably what they're using the word traditional for. Which is,

what's wrong with that? That's wonderful, right? And it's like, Yeah, when did that become controversial? Yeah, that's not a controversial word. But,

you know, tread wife and things like that. They're immediately popping to my head when I hear that. You know, yeah, trust me. I know the three of us

don't have a marriage like that. And I know that neither is he. So people don't have to be worried about that. The other thing about Chris, and I didn't say this earlier when we were talking about it, but yeah, you're right.

Like, you're getting a really good host. Yeah. Someone's really competent about hitting his mark and saying the things and not doing all that stuff. And this is maybe still maybe insider baseball. But like he's a phenomenal producer. Yeah. Right.

Like he's really helping build this story because he's a part of it. Right. Like he is it's kind of not dissimilar to me with the bartender thing of like I'm invested in this because I'm a part of this thing. You're seeing storylines unfold and you're going after. And you're rooting for people. And you know, you're doing it. And he has a very good mind. for that. I mean, there's

a reason why that show was the number one show for so long and it had a lot to do with that guy's mind back in the control room being like, I think we got to do this. I think you've got to do this. And him being back on TV, I think you're going to see that. I agree. One of the things I've always respect about Chris

and I know and I don't believe I'm sharing too much as a friend because it's a compliment to him. If I, was in the world of television for as long as he has been, I could see myself getting into the place where I was rooting against somebody. Like, oh yeah, we got to nail on this storyline because they're freaking out and we have

an ability to manipulate this and make this dramatic. Even in over drinks and a car ride with Chris, when you hear him talk about his time on the bachelor, it's only out of a place of support and help for the contestants that were there. Now, things still happened that he just let happen because that's what was needing to happen. But he was always a fan and rooting for and trying to help out the cast to be the best versions of themselves. And he did that for me. I know he did that for you. He's done that for you. And so I think it is phenomenal. I think we've all agreed. It's great for television. It's great for him. Five years away is too long for a guy that was the most popular. Oh, he was everywhere for a while there.

face in you know to that point too one of the things i mean again we're all friends we're all friends with chris but he also really didn't root against the bachelor since he's been gone i mean no he was never a guy who he was given many opportunities where he could have just been trashing the show and he didn't do it i wouldn't be surprised if he watched the ratings plummet and he went oh i mean i don't think you could how would you not it's kind of like me on the golf course if wells doubles i'm not saying anything but the back of my mind i'm not clapping you're not I'm going. Let's go,

let's go, baby. I'm sure. I'm sure there was some of that, but man, I mean, at least publicly, he never once took a shot. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, that show gave him a lot. Yeah. I mean, obviously that was taken away and for whatever reason,

but like I do think that he looks back on that time in his life of being like really formative and like really wonderful. Also, I think that maybe like contractually, he probably is not like to say. Hey, this has been a lot of fun.

Guys, we have a great night ahead of us, a great week ahead of us. It's always fun to be with the two of you and hanging out in one of the most beautiful places on earth. I truly believe that this is going to be fantastic. Thanks for chatting about all things important in the world. Like who's going to be our next bachelor? Who is, what is the bachelor are going to do? Chris Harrison coming back. And then obviously a great segment on drinks on the golf course.

Hey, we'll be back very soon with more episodes on the Almost Famous Podcast. Until next time, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. And I've been Robert Irwin. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast,

and the lead-up to the Milan Quartina, 2027. Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.

Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. House College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's Senior.

It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelick Lemoomuba. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair

was invented by black people? of what happened in Alabama. To Montgomery Bra. This Black History Month, the podcast, Selective Ignorance with Mandy B, unpackes black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo.

The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hair styles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.