The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Spellbound

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

In between the spells and witches, Ashley has a bold prediction to make about how this season of The Bachelor is going to end! Ben reveals a shocking secret from his time on The Bachelorette that he���s NEVER shared before. And, we find out there may be other forces at work that brought Ashley and Jared together… could the same happen for Zach??  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

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Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. It's the Almost Famous Podcast. We are back for another episode, Breakdown. Ashley, you have bad storms your way. So if we lose you due to the storms, your electricity goes out. I'm on my own. Are you ready to be on your own?

I'm ready to be on my own, but I don't want to be on my own. I like having it. I don't think my electricity is going out. Okay. I'd rather have you here. Ashley, it's time to jump into it, a episode that garnered a lot of conversation online. We're here to talk about it, break it down. In the past, Ashley, we have been criticized.

sometimes pushed aside because of our critique of Zach. And the critiques on my end have been, hey, I don't think he's a bad dude. I don't. I don't think he's a bad bachelor. I think it was an odd choice. And there's been moments this season where I feel like I don't know necessarily what his intentions are when it comes to why he gets rid of some women

and why he keeps someone around and why he kisses them in the men. of a really intentional conversation. Those are all critiques that I give every bachelor. Some of the best? Yeah. To some of the worst. I will say in this episode, we'll get to it.

For the first time, I will actually be critical of Zach. I want to give you that note for the first time. Well, like, actually critical of him saying, hey, I don't think, I would say this is the first episode where I'd say he, his bachelorness is, it was not on display well. I still don't think he's a bad bachelor and I still don't think he's a bad dude I actually think he is a really good bachelor I think he's really there for the right reasons

I think he wants to find love but two episodes in a row now Ashley and again we'll break it down later in the episode he has gotten he has responded oddly to the feelings the confusion and the emotions

of the contestants And I have some reasons why I'm on the contestant's side here. And we'll get to those here later on. But let's start with the beginning of that episode. All right. Let's do it. All right. So they're in this place that I want to call Andalasia or what's the Princess Diaries?

I've never watched Princess Diaries. Princess of Genovia. Oh. What? Yeah, I know. Jessica says Jessica and I just got into this last week. Really? What's the odds?

Well, I don't know, but we were wanting to watch a movie, and she's like, isn't it that a night that you're in the mood to watch Princess Diaries? And I was like, well, no, and I've never seen it. And then I don't know when I'm going to be in the mood to watch a Princess Diaries. But she says it's top five favorite movies for her of all time. Oh, wow. That's so sweet of you to maybe consider watching one of her top five favorite movies of all time one day. I will one day. It's okay. Jared's the exact same way with a walk to remember. Like, he won't do it. I think he saw it once when he was, like, an eighth or ninth grade. And he will never watch it with me. But anyway, it's like Andalasia or like Genovia, this place. I've heard of it before. Where are we?

Was it Estonia? Estonia. It looks beautiful. It really does look like some fancy, like, Disney World. It really does. Gorgeous. It looks like a perfect place to find love. You know, I love that, actually, there's so many parts of this.

show now that being on it, and then watching it as a fan, I just kind of like dismiss or like, oh, that's ridiculous. You know, when they yell at Zach's name, you know, at the same place or whatever. That's the most cringy thing ever. But the, this is a perfect place to find love still hits my heart. It still makes me, it still feels genuine to me. All right. Well, it's not a good place for Greer to find love because of all people, she's the one that's caught COVID, possibly from Zach. they say she's under the weather but later in the episode they confirmed that she had COVID and she was like quarantined

the entire time. So like Greer who was definitely on the shopping block this week kind of gets to sail through not that she's participating at all. She's 100% not in this episode. Isn't it ironic that the person that he probably would have eliminated that he feels like he could

have eliminated last week is the one that gets COVID from him even though like they don't think they've been physical at all? Yeah. You know there's yes. I do I do think that's interesting. I also think it's interesting now that what, like, what is the formula or process to somebody going home after having COVID? Because with Logan, he just disappears.

He's gone. Yeah. Like he gets COVID and it's like, sorry, man, bad luck. Yeah. Bad luck. But then Greer gets COVID and she sticks around, which, whose decision is that, ultimately? Is that the lead's decision? Is that the show's decision?

Do we really know? I don't know. I think it's changed. slogan, but also I think that Greer has been like more of somebody to consider in this process than Logan ever was to either of those girls. Okay, fair enough. Okay, so let's go. Let's, oh my gosh. So first, of course, we get the one-on-one date card. It's for charity, which is no surprise since charity's date last week was canceled. We're all happy she's got it. But before Zach could pick her up, he gets pulled aside.

by Kat, who just is like, oh, I'm going to go, like, take a little steel for a second, like want to have a little private moment. And this is a huge part of this episode, which I think is a little bit extra. She definitely... Extra, why? Extra on what end? I think it's extra on Brooklyn's end. So it ends up being drama between Kat and Brooklyn primarily, a little bit with charity,

but primarily between Brooklyn and Kat and... Man, was Brooklyn revved up by this move? She thought it was so rude to pull him aside to sneak in alone time before somebody else's one-on-one. Now, look, is it ideal? No. Is it a little bit rude? Sure. Are there any, aren't there supposed to be no rules?

Doesn't every lead usually praise the person who steals them aside and is aggressive to get a long time with them? they almost always seems to go over well especially in my opinion i don't know i was going to say with a male lead but now i think about the girls too i feel like most i feel like most leads appreciate when somebody takes a little bit of a extra step to see them and that's what cat does and again is it perfect timing no but should it be as big of a deal as brooklyn makes it seem i don't think so i think brooklyn is acting out of a lot of jealousy here i think she sees cat is a major threat, and she wants to bring her down some way. That's my take. What's yours? Well, it's nice to be pursued. No matter what, you know, you're the lead. You often feel,

I mean, from my experience, like you're on your own island, right? You're staying separated from everybody else. You typically don't have a lot of friends around you. You don't know exactly how the women are feeling in the house, especially the ones that you're very interested in. So it does feel good to be pursued, especially by those that you really like. And so I think there's one note here where if it was somebody that he wasn't that into, I think he maybe would have responded differently. Okay, but there's also like nobody that he's not into now, which is kind of crazy. I definitely thought in this episode, Allie, who does get eliminated at the end, was the weakest link. And then just as well, those were the two like obvious eliminations in my head. But what I'm

really finding intriguing about this season is that he is so into these girls. And I feel like everybody has a chance. And I think the front runners are changing week by week. Anyway, okay, Ben, continue. Sorry. I am, and I could be wrong in this. I'm just typically in these situations that it's like very gray. There's not a right and wrong. There's not a procedure to, hey, was Kat supposed to do this or not? Was it inappropriate? We don't really know. Nobody, you know, we'll all have our own opinions on it. He was in poor taste. I'll say it's in poor taste.

I would say I always fall back on the lead's response. And so if Zach didn't want this happening, right? This is a process and this is, I'll get to this later. But the one thing I want Zach as a fan of the show, as, you know, as somebody who's watching it, to understand is this is a process for all involved. Yes, he is the lead of the process, but this is everybody's experience and everybody adventure together. And he has to help cultivate that and care for that. And so with this, yes, this is a process for him and Kat. Zach, if he wasn't into it, needed to say, hey, this is

inappropriate this time. I like you a lot. I'm very into this relationship. But I have a date coming up. And it just feels weird to be doing this right before my date. If he doesn't have a problem with it, him as the lead goes with it. And then nobody can really get upset with anybody but Zach because the girls are just trying to figure out the best way to get his attention and if he doesn't want that attention or if he feels like that's not fair to the process in general as the lead then he has to step up and say something but the only person here to get upset about is Zach. Very interesting very interesting take on that and I agree with you Brooklyn gets feisty too it's not just like oh did you really have to do that that was kind of rude

Like, she wants to fight her with words. Yeah. That never goes over well. That never goes well. Kat called her out with being aggressive. And it's like, okay, if somebody's going to have an issue with the moment, like, let it be charity. Who's going to be going on the one-on-one? Let her be the one that's offended.

Not you so desperately. Anyway, we'll get back to the situation later. I think that there's like, there's not a lot of drama going on this season, which I think we like. We like that there's no petty drama. And this, they're definitely going to, like, like use this as a drama point. I didn't mind. It was because I truly felt like that Brooklyn

was irked. Anyway, okay, like I said, let's move on. Charity and him have a very nice one-on-one. There's not like a lot to mention on it, you know? They go in a horse-drawn carriage. They play this game about like wife carrying, which is apparently,

apparently a very popular sport in Estonia. Have you Google this yet? Do you believe that? Wife carrying? Yeah. If you Google it, like, no, I don't know if, I feel like saying it's a popular sport is overblown. Like, I think it's probably done, but I'm sure it's done in a few places in the U.S. It doesn't make it a popular sport.

But you keep going. It's an interesting date. Mm-hmm. What else do they do around town? I don't hate it Can I just say that though? Like I know that the whole The carrying or just like the little like carriage around town

I think carriage around town is a nice type of date Yeah I think the carriage around town The carrying is is weird right It's a risk it's different But what I don't hate about it Is I'm just glad the show is finding new dates Like new things So outside of if carrying your wife around

Is a sport or not Or if it is a super weird concept or not I'm just glad the show is looking for new creative dates that are like that we can talk about here in the podcast and be interested in and at least have an opinion on because half the dates it feels like nowadays are repeats and we don't even focus on them anymore because they're repeat. So just happy that something new is happening. I completely agree and I really do like these touristy dates. They're like kind of tourists doing the things that the people there do, which I guess that's not like new. I guess they always try to incorporate the,

culture in the date but I like the way that they're like touring around town together like he did with Gabby last week in London then they go and they take shots of something they think it's alcohol but there's like a ton there it is alcohol but there's like a ton of pepper in it and those like the kind of like fun experiences together when you like get gross out together or you know you take shots like it's kind of more of like a normal date right yeah it is a normal Did you take shots on dates? Did you take shots on dates? I would 100% take a shot on a date, like, especially something new and interesting. I mean, I'm not just going to sit on my first date with somebody and rip like six tequila shots and be like, hey, you down to like hang out.

Yeah. But something new, drinking a new experience together, it helps loosen it up. It gives you something to talk about. So yes, this feels like a very normal, fun, healthy kind of first date, if you will. Yeah. Yep, bonding experience. So then they sit down to dinner. And they talk about how Charity really, like, probably had an emotionally abusive relationship in her past, her last relationship.

She says it's like she feels like shameful about it and regretful, but it's made her who she is today. She said she was really just stuck in a vicious cycle of manipulation and the relationship had some infidelity many times with somebody that she knew. obviously was just like a really horrible situation to be here being but now with Zach you know she's feeling good and she's glad that she was able to get through that conversation and she felt comforted

by him and you know gives her the rose feels very strong with charity with charity you know all I can say is that like it's another one to kind of add to the coat and I don't want to call Girls a Collection but like the bunch

of people that I feel like would be safe for weeks, but then you realize that he's got a limit it down to the top four hometowns by next week. So whoever leaves next week, I think is going to be, they're going to be shocked as a contestant and we're going to be shocked as an audience. That's what we want though, right? I mean, this is our ideal season right now where there is so many people that we know. You know, this will be the first season in a while, Ashley, that I bet I could name five contestants from like six months after the show's done. I could be like, oh yeah, you remember Kat and Brooklyn and charity, an aerial and all these people from this season because the

contestant group is very strong. And I think the connections are very strong. And this is what we want. We've kind of missed this. Like, I mean, if you remember maybe two seasons ago, we were like, I don't know if there's anybody here that we could see them with, which is a very odd place to sit as you get down to hometowns, this season, I'm going, oh, I see a lot of people I could see him with. Yeah, that's so true. Like, think about these girls, these top, I don't even know the number we're at, like, eight, let's just call it eight right now without me counting. But, like, all top eight would seemingly be, like, big Paradise Gets. Interesting thought, yes. Big Paradise Gets and very sought after Paradise Gets. Like I'm saying, like, when they get to the beach, I think

people are going to be like, yes, Zach's season had an incredible contestant group. Yeah, I agree. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane. with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, pull that, turn this.

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And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness. this, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you.

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Okay, so the group date, they go to a witch's, a witch's thing. Ben, I feel like you weren't going to like this day. I'm not really sure you're a witch fan. Which has intrigued me. I actually, actually, I'm intrigued by witches for wild reasons, right? I think a lot of times there's a misconception, right? And then, you know, the history of witches, like what makes somebody a witch and what doesn't and false accusations of this.

The whole history of people being witches has just intrigued me with the stories, especially when it crosses with religion. And so I'm more, I'm not like a not a witch fan. No, okay, because I thought it was like a religious. religious thing that you'd be like not a witch fan oh no i mean i you know for as for as uh much uh as a christian i am or however you want to explain that you know my fundamental side is not existing and so i'm more just intrigued with the history of and trying to understand their culture and where they came from so no i'm i'm intrigued um i mean see the like dark magics in general like

just, I don't understand it. I've never been around it. And so I'm more, I have an outsider just interested. Are you cool with, like, good witches, though, like, Lunda? Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm cool. I'm cool. You're cool with the witches.

Yeah, I'm cool with the witches. Okay, well, do you believe in love spells? Because I can't, I can't deny. My sister and I may have, I wouldn't say conducted love spells, but something of the sort. I've sat on a balcony and meditated about someone while like a red candle was burning. Or I've taken what we was called a love bath, which is like you put red petals in the bath and then you think about the person deeply. Oh my goodness. I mean, there's so much about this that I want to ask you. That's not like witchy stuff, right? That's like the power of your mind.

Sure. You know, I mean, I guess it is, you know, you go into is it, is it, is it, it's a is what is meditation? What is prayer? What is contemplation? Like, you know, prayer in a lot of ways for me has always been about meditating and contemplating on the good and the bad and the dreams and the hopes and where God I feel like is calling me to. So for me as a Christian, like prayer has looked a lot of different ways. It isn't just me getting on my hands and knees, crossing my hands and praying, God, thank you for today. No, it's like a lot of it is meditation. And I think a lot of that is like a calling of the heart and getting your mind to a place where you know, but helping your mind understand what your heart is feeling. That's fair. That's not weird.

That happens in every faith tradition. Just people call it different things. I, you know, me personally, and maybe I'll be convinced to this one day, maybe I never will. I am not necessarily somebody that would invest any money into getting my cards read or getting a spell put over me, believing that that is doing something, that is something that I, you know, I do think there is a spiritual world. And I do think there's that stuff going on. I just wouldn't do it because, one, it would, you know, I've read too much about that stuff. And then two, I just have never, I'm good with my prayer to Jesus. Now, that's not that everybody has to do that. So no, I am not a fan of spells. I don't believe in spells, but that's just my own

personal thing. So you don't believe that Zach and these girls are falling more in love overlooking at each other through a flame candle? No, I do not. And if they are... That's their tasks this week. That's really the most shown spell

because of course the candle that blows out in the midst of this gaze is the candle between Jess and Zach. And we just know going to this group date that Jess is feeling very insecure about the fact that she hasn't had a one-on-one, which at this point, I feel you.

I was, what week are we at? Are we, it's week six? We're getting pretty far along. I think this is my week. I think this is my week that I got eliminated. Okay, so then this is the time where you look around the room. Yes, okay, this is week six. You look around the room and you're like, okay, so it's me and that other person

and we're the only ones that haven't had one-on-one, so I kind of feel demoralized right now because I'm obviously at the bottom of this guy's barrel. So, yeah, you just feel insecure about it. being around all these other girls that obviously have an upper hand of you. And that like applies to everything in life. That like applies to gym class, right? And that's a classic example. Like yeah, you don't want to be, I mean, you don't want to be picked last. I know there's listeners out there who probably have a different faith or belief system than I do. Here's something I, a question I want to ask you. And listeners, you've been really good at DMing and Twitter messaging

on some questions recently. What is the difference here? And this is a question I'm curious about. I don't know anything about this. What is the difference here between looking into a candle and having things spoken over you and having your kind of mind, like, in this certain place? What's the difference between like that,

like a spell or whatever you want to call it, and hypnosis? Like how do I know that I'm not being hypnotized or I'm going to use this word, but it's not the right word, but it feels like the only word I can come up with, like manipulated. to fall more in love given, you know, this environment.

Because the mind is easy to tweak, like hypnosis is a very real thing. I've seen people hypnotized. How do I know that I'm not being just hypnotized to fall in love with all these people? I don't know, but one time I played a game with Jared, and it said, this game will make somebody fall in love with you, and now we're married. When does that, when does this spell, like, leave then? Like, when does it kick off? Is it just a forever spell?

I don't know. but if you look it up on Google, you look up like the 20 questions to make someone fall in love with you. And they're just increasingly vulnerable, like intimate questions and the more you reveal yourself. Yeah, I guarantee you Googled it right before you had your first date with Jared. What are 20 things I could say to make him fall in love with me? I remember this day, this is so vividly because I'd like to pretend like he was our first date in real life, even though I totally manipulated it on him. We like had an event. He had an extra day in L.A. I was like, hey, do you want to go to dinner in a movie?

And, you know, like, he thought just his friends, duh. I was like, yeah, well, I took him to the most romantic restaurant. Oh, there you go, Ashley. Anyway, okay. This is where we need to sit, though, because this is a moment with Jess and Zach that I was kind of alluding to at the beginning, right? Jess and Zach. Candle blows out.

She has concerns about not getting the first date or a one-on-one date. Which she already knows she's not getting a one-on-one date. but she's, you know, so she's feeling real stupid on this group date as the only girl who's never had a one-on-one. And at this point, Ashley, you had mentioned that you were in this similar situation. Can you just describe the feelings that you're experiencing as you sit around the room and you go, I'm the only person that hasn't gotten time with Zach. He either is not interested in me or he's saving a very special date for me one day,

but that day hasn't happened yet. And I'm starting to get, and I'll let you fill in the blanks. oh okay well you feel obviously behind and then you feel like oh or all the the conversations that are happening on this group date so much more in depth than what i'm gonna have yeah because we're still like surfacy and then we get to what just talks about on the group date which was something that i definitely felt because the little times that you have with the lead leading up to this point are like 15 minutes one-on-one tops, right? Yeah. So she probably got like 15 minutes during the daytime portion of the day along with him, and that's like kind of like fun, right? But in the nighttime portion is when you're supposed to be a little bit more intimate and vulnerable and talk a little bit more about your life, but that's still

only like 15 minutes. So you're supposed to be like flirty and like, flirty and like fun, but also connect at the same time all within 15 minutes and you're just like okay i'm having a hard time doing this makes me the pressure is so on you to make like the best 15 minute impression and you feel like there's certain things that you're just not going to bring up because one it'll take too long it'll feel weird if it's interrupted and then it'll just feel like out of place just in general everything feels like it's kind of like out of place when you have a 15 minute conversation that can be interrupted at any time um so what she was saying was like she was kind

like waiting for that one-on-one to let herself out and for him to see the real her which i can so relate to because i don't think that i was ever like totally myself and it's so silly to refer back to like eight years ago and chris souls and stuff but like that's how it was like Like I just felt like every little moment I had was like, oh, okay, I'll try to be flirty. It was like always like trying to be like flirty and fun and like never really like getting into anything deeper. And that's why she was like, I just need a one on one. I just wanted a one on one.

And it's really sad that I haven't had one because I don't think you've like gotten to know who I am at this point. And then he makes it seem like she's, uh, she's. too focused on having a one-on-one? Like, why would she feel like she needed a one-on-one so bad? It's a very bizarre unfolding. Yeah, so here's where my critique was at the beginning. And people will still probably get upset that I'm too harsh on Zach.

And I'm okay with that because I really am confident. One, I've been there. And Zach, again, I want to preface this was saying, I don't think Zach is a bad bachelor. And I don't think he's a bad dude. I think he is handling it. it goes back to our point a few weeks ago, I think he's handling these tough, like, confrontations

in a very, like, kind of harsh, un-understanding, non-understanding way. Yeah, that kind of makes me nervous. Here's my point to this. I remember my time on The Bachelorette, and I've never said this publicly, and I just thought about it last night as I was reviewing everything and thinking through my thoughts

and why maybe I felt a little irked or why I was like, hey, this doesn't seem fair or right. I've never publicly said this. I always actually felt weird in this environment on The Bachelor app. As a lead, it was a little different. But on The Bachelor, I always felt very uncomfortable for a few reasons. One, it's a weird world. You're with a bunch of really cool people, very attractive people.

You always feel like you're competing for this one thing that you barely see and that you hope one day works out for you. You never know what to bring up, right? Like, you just don't know what to talk about. You don't know what to talk about because it's a high-pressure environment. The second piece, and this is the thing I've never shared, I always felt just very, like, silly about speaking, sharing my thoughts on the experience. Because when they would have you into the, like, do you really want a rose tonight? I would just feel personally really weird about being like, oh, my gosh, that rose would mean so much to me.

I just felt weird about a rose being such a focus in my life. I never in my life wanted a rose that bad. I still understand that. Oh, my gosh, I haven't thought about that for a while. just being in that interview room before a, before a rose ceremony? How much does this rose mean to you tonight? It means so much to me. It just doesn't, it never felt comfortable to me. So I was a lot more comfortable sitting with Caitlin at the time and talking about our lives and her life and what she was dreaming of and what this experience was. And, and, but at some point, she's had these same conversations

that I'm asking her to the same questions of with multiple different people. And so I just felt uncomfortable. And that uncomfortability led to some insecurity. And that insecurity led to some doubts and confusion. And then there would be moments where I was like, no, this is a really fun, good thing that I'm experiencing here. And I want to stick around. I just don't know how to express it to Caitlin Fairly. And I always will say this, what Caitlin Bristow did, and I haven't been on any other bachelorette season. So I don't know. But I would say she did it as well as anybody could is she never made those insecurities or my confusion or my like laughter at the thought that I was wanting a rose so bad ever like something that was my problem she she always made me

feel comfortable expressing these concerns and these doubts and these things in my head um she would laugh with me she would joke with me so this brings me to zap we've had multiple women now express things that yes maybe he feels are silly but in their world they're a big deal and instead of sitting with them and hearing them out and saying, okay, why is it so frustrating to you that you haven't gotten one-on-one yet? Well, because I feel like I want more time with you and I feel like you really need to get to know me outside of these group dates. Well, that makes sense. Like, I don't know if I know you yet. Tell me more about this. He's just pretty much, like, in his own head saying, I don't get it. This is something I don't understand. And there's a

disconnect now. And I just, I think he's making, and we saw it with Greer, like trying to bring up a simple thing about trying to compare work with this experience. It's weird. You're not always going to have the right things to say. And as a lead, it's everybody's process together. And the whole point of, I think, being a lead is to help people through the process so that you can get to know somebody. And I think Zach is shutting these down so quickly that to me it's frustrating.

That's my biggest beef right now. Again, don't think he's a bad badger. Don't think he's a bad person. I just wish he would lean in a little bit to understanding where the women are coming from more than just being like, yeah. You aren't seen the way I do, and so I don't get it. Yeah, he's like super intolerant to difference, and that kind of makes me not feel good, right? And I want to just say, you saying that made me think about group dates and such and being in Jess's shoes.

When you are on a group, your group day, group, group date, you are one, like, if you're not a totally extroverted person, like I had to compete in. it feels weird to say again now with like a Caitlin who is super extroverted so funny just like the life of the party on a group date where it's like why would he even like look at me when this girl is like lighting up the room so you have to compete with personalities like that so when you're like an introvert when you're i guess what am i i'm an extroverted introvert i even though i'm usually comfortable in like a group setting i like it to be a little bit smaller. Like, if it's a table of four, I like, I like to talk. If the table of six or seven, I'm going to probably sit back a little bit more. So on these group dates, I'd find myself

sitting back more, which again makes you feel shy and feeling shy can often make you feel insecure. And then the other part of group dates is the conversations that you usually have, don't really go to the real world you. It taught, you end up talking about like your bachelor you and like how you're feeling in the group and how the travel. been and like are you getting along with everyone and this has been fun and it's just like all that surfacy stuff so those are just two reasons why being on a group date you're not letting your real self shine so i just totally totally feel the insecurity that Jess is feeling right now and her expressing that to Zach and him being so confused by it and non receptive I just know that she is

probably basking in the fact that the internet is really supporting her today. Definitely. Well, yeah. And I mean, at the time, either he's just not that intert, which would have, he could have communicated a lot better, but he's not showing any signs of that yet. That wasn't the case at all. He was like, that's an option. Either he's not that intertor. Was he lying when he said I'm very confident in this? And like, I'm always thinking about you often. I think he's just responding in a way that doesn't feel like he's trying to relate with it. And we can maybe end the thought here. But I wonder, Ashley, for you, and for me, I could speak from my experience,

but Jess has lacked any sort of intimacy for weeks now, right? Like, she has had no intimacy. She might have had some intimacy from her friends, like some close connections, some good relationships, some nice conversations. But when it comes to, you know, the reason she's there, she has not had any intimacy with Zach. We might see them kissing a few times, but to be honest, group dates are like an assembly line

of dating. The lead is sitting in some room, and there's somebody talking to him, and then the next person comes in and sits down with him, and then the next person comes in, it's an assembly line. Like, there is no intimacy on group dates. It is almost impossible to feel any sort of connection to anybody when it is literally an assembly line of dating, never knowing when that next person is going to want to walk around the corner and steal you for it. a second. And so a lot of this for her is, you know, coming, I would imagine, and I want to ask you

from your experience, from a lack of intimacy, which leads to confusion about where they're at in their relationship. So what's the question? You think it's from a lack of intimacy? So like they don't know each other enough to like navigate this argument? Well, she doesn't know, she doesn't know where he stands. He can say he's confident in it. He can give her all the signs. But what she's really asking for in that one-on-one is, Zach, are you in this or not? Like, are you, Are you interested in me enough to have an intimate moment with me, to sit down with me one on one, to be in a same room as me for multiple hours of the day? Or are you not into it? And I should just get out of here.

Because at this point, I think she's wondering why she has felt no intimacy for weeks now. And she's wondering, does Zach just not want any of that with her? That is exactly what she's wondering. Sure. But he is giving her like this weird confidence. to like that she shouldn't be feeling that like they sit down and he's literally like just why would you feel behind why would you feel insecure right now um and he's like i feel he literally says verbatim i have this confidence in us and then in what is tv just seconds later

two minutes max he literally goes i feel there's a disconnect and I don't feel any more sure about this and I feel nervous and I'm like, wait a second how did you go from her walking in the room I have confidence in us to be honest I feel there's a disconnect in one in which I cannot get over

wait what that's what's worrisome about Zach is that like he just all the sudden I can really feel somebody, one conversation can make him like, I'm over it. We saw it with Rachel in the fantasy suite. We don't know what happened. We don't know what happened there. Yeah, that's a good memory there. So into it, ready to propose, one night over it. One night said, woke up and was like,

yeah, something happened last night where I don't get it anymore. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Emergency. sooner come and listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers, the

pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control and they're saying like, okay

pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just... I can do it my eyes close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, No Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what?

Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex.

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new Super Secret Bestie is The Diva of the People.

The Diva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley.

And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbrates, men, and of course, our favorite secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, it's Honey German And my podcast Grasas Come Again is back This season we're going even deeper Into the world of music and entertainment

With raw and honest conversations With some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah.

We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vibras you've come to expect. And, of course, we'll explore deeper topics

dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas has come again, as part of My Cultura Podcast Network

on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So again, as we mentioned two weeks ago, and people responded, you know, in their own ways to, it is now a trend that we're seeing that we want to watch play out for the rest of the season. Like, is this going to continue for the rest of the season? Is this just maybe who Zach is?

Like, again, we're just trying to get to know him better also. Does he just get uncomfortable in confrontation? And in confrontation, he does feel like there's a disconnect because misunderstandings or somebody feeling hurt by how the process is going. He can't relate with. And as a result, he just would rather say, hey, this isn't going to work out. And that's how he's going to find his wife. It's just saying, hey, who's here, who gets me, who understands this, who feels comfortable,

and they're going to be here at the end. We don't know. It's going to be interesting. Wait, is he going to end up with somebody that he just will never have an argument with? He just, they need to be agreeable at all times. I don't know. If I was one of the girls watching his conversation with Greer and now this and just to see how quick he can flip, I'd have a red flag flying.

Possibly. We'll have to see. It's going to be a trend. Something to pay attention to. It was definitely I felt like the most dramatic, one of, yeah, I'd say the most dramatic, most pivotal point. of this episode, uh, was this kind of confrontation with Jess. And, uh, yeah, I didn't see it coming. I did not see this response being done. If somebody to me, okay, we need to close this thought, Ashley. But if somebody came up to me, my wife or when I was dating her came to me and said,

Ben, I really want to go on a date with you tonight because I just want us to get away from our house and to spend time together. And I feel like we haven't done it in a while. And I really just want to spend more time with you. That's an incredible compliment. Like, that's just a really sweet thing for somebody to say to you is I want more time with you and I'm confused on why you aren't wanting that time with me right now. It's a very common, like, conversation in my household is we need to go and spend more time together. We need to get out of the house away from our distractions and go and be like, okay, I understand where you're coming from. You want more time with me. That's really sweet. Let's go do that.

Yeah. So bizarre. Also, I have one more final thought on this. If she didn't leave here, who would have been eliminated at the rose ceremony? Because he has so much confidence in their relationship. I don't know. It's hard to say. I don't know.

All right. Finally, he has a one-on-one with Ariel, which looks like it was squeezed into the week because I think she may have had her one-on-one the same day as they had the rose ceremony, just like because of daytime, nighttime situation. and he said yesterday. And that makes sense because they had to like cut out a week for COVID and whatnot. That's just a small little observation of mine. Ariel is someone who has flown under the radar while watching this and having him talk about

Sean Lowe and like Sean Lowe, you know, said Catherine flew under the radar until like midway through. And then I was on a date with her and I was like, oh my gosh, this could be my wife. he brings up this story and I have to say I see parallels I'm going to make a bold thing a bold comment I think that he's going to end up with Ariel

at the end? Yeah. No way. Over Cat still? Yeah, I don't know if Kat's going to hang around much longer because there's probably going to be some controversy there's going to be her disagreeing with him

or there's going to be some conflict surrounding her and he won't be able to deal with it and he'll eliminate her. That's just that's where I I see this going. So you think... He even previewed it

during the cocktail party. He said, like, I felt a disconnect. And we know how he deals with disconnect. So I don't even know if she's going to hang around until hometowns. So do you think

you would put Ariel above charity? Yes. Wow. So Arrow goes to, like, the top of the list right now. I just said, I think she might win. My goodness.

That is a big deal. And I think Gabby might be, too. What do you think about What do you think about the date that was set up for Ariel and Zach? I always find it a little odd when we involve nudity on this show, but at least they didn't have to get nude. They just had to sit in a sauna and a hot tub with two, an older, an older couple who was a little naked. And, you know, yeah, it's going to make you uncomfortable. I know what they were trying to do with it.

They're trying to be like, look at this couple. they're so in love and they're so like open with each other and open with the world and la la la la la yeah well for as much as this show said that like wife caring or whatever that was was popular in estonia i mean in this part of europe right these are this is a very common like health practice it's not odd to be in asana with nude people they don't see it you know as in the same way that we maybe do here in the states and so yes i think this couple is very much in love very connected very open with each other. But I also just believe it is a common,

a more common practice in those places of the world than it is here in the U.S. Yeah, yeah. So I thought their date was really nice. I think they had fun. I think they had an emotional connection. The only real thing that stands out

about conversation serious-wise is that Ariel was like, you know, a lot of times I will kind of mask my seriousness with humor just because it's like a protection it's a good protection trait she says also at the end that she couldn't be herself

in a lot of the relationships that she had in the past and that she's really not wanting to be alone anymore she says she's been alone for a long time and she's tired of it and that's what made her really emotional towards the end of the date she says that

she really thinks that Zach could be here forever person and I know this is crazy but I think they think they could be it in the end That's beautiful That would be beautiful Well, that takes us then

to the rose ceremony Yeah, as Ashley mentioned Not a shocker on who went home Jess obviously has gone home Allie is sent home Charity already has a rose And so does Ariel Who's the other one with the rose

At this point? There is no other one with the rose because remember at the group date, he didn't give a rose because he felt so weird after the Jess elimination. Okay. So then we have the first rose goes to Gabby, then Katie, Brooklyn, Kat, and Ali is sent home. That takes us into next week. Ashley, like every episode, we do. I ask you, who is your top three in order from your favorite to, I don't know, three who still is a favorite. Ashley, top three. Okay, my top three is Ariel winning, Gabby being number two, and Katie being number three. Okay, I go, I go charity now, Kat. As who? Number one. You think he's going to marry charity, or he's going to get engaged a charity?

I think at this point. I would not say that I think that they're going to get engaged. I still see Kat more with him at the end. I think it's going to be a rough. Wild Ride, but right now where we sit in terms of his infatuation and who I feel like has the most momentum. I would go Charity, Cat, and then Ariel probably, you're right. Ariel will probably have snuck up into the top three. He's obsessed with Gabby right now, Ben. Sure. Sure. I mean, really, like we said at the beginning, everybody, like I could have easily put Katie into this

conversation still. I just put Katie into conversation. So, yeah, I don't know. Uh, well, Well, first, before we, like, wrap this up, I think we do need to talk about Brooklyn's behavior towards cat one more time. Okay. So she's having a chat with Charity, and it's adult-like, you know, she says she doesn't appreciate the fact that she, you know, that she took Zach away before their date.

But then Brooklyn comes in the room and goes, Charity, are you okay? And it's like, oh my gosh, come on now, girl. I get it. I don't like the cat move either. But she is just, she's got a. than dada against her. Kat's pissed.

She walks away from the situation. She's in an interview situation. Kind of, kind of. She's talking to a producer in another room. And then Zach comes up. And then he pulls her aside, says that he feels like they've been off. And she's like, no, no, no, no. Like, I value every moment that I have with you.

It's just the group setting is really hard. I haven't had, like, you know, time alone with you and quite some time. and I just feel like this is the beginning of the end for them that's all do you have anything else to say about that Brooklyn scenario like do you think that I'm overdoing it

like I just think her jealousy is blaring I don't know we haven't seen it yet this season I don't have I mean I think for the first time usually I would say hey this is definitely not gonna end well but we don't know yet how Zach will respond because we haven't really seen him respond to

I guess we did with like the Instagram following him respond to maybe like in-house controversy, but he might like it that Brooklyn is, you know, so like into him and so protective of him. So I don't have necessarily a feeling on where this ends other than the fact that typically in seasons, this never ends well. I know. And maybe Kat is doing other things that we haven't seen that are really irking the girls. nobody seems to be totally on her side

Gabby and Ariel were even like should we check on her and Gabby was like it wouldn't be in the best interest of us so it doesn't seem like anybody's trying to rush your rescue I am assuming that more has happened than just that steal but maybe we'll find out soon okay well are we ready for Bachelor

Headlines we sure are Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercoms the podcast. for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom. And listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot

is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this.

Do this. Pull that. Turn this. It's just a I can do it my eyes closed. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, No Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these.

Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. See?

Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training.

These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio,

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro? Tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for debt consolidation loan starting with your local credit union shopping around online looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable listen i am not here to judge

it is so expensive in these streets i 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you it's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand it's nice and dark in the sand even if it's scary it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, first headline of today, Caitlin Bristow.

This is interesting to me. Claims Bachelor footage of Zach sick in London was shot in L.A. This is juicy. love it yeah and actually you know read through and explain where this headline is going but i have seen this headline i've i've listened to the clip i don't know like what we're getting it obviously if he will i mean are we saying he wasn't really sick in london are we saying that something happened in london where he couldn't even be there i don't get what like the outcome is in terms of what is being said other than the fact that yes it's juicy and it's weird that she

thinks it was shot in L.A. and not London. Okay. She says that when they show B-roll of Zach, it looks like he's not doing too bad, despite the dramatic footage of him blowing his nose. She goes, he's like in his hotel room, in bed blowing his nose. He's got a fake little cup of tea. That hotel is in L.A. She goes, the proof is all in the headboard.

It's the hotel that they always put up their people. when we do things like final rows or women to all, men tell all, men till all. That's where we stay in this very specific bed that has that back. So why would producers do this? According to Caitlin, they must have had been like,

oh, we need some B-roll of Zach looking sick. So then he's back in L.A. They're like, hey, can we just get you blowing your nose and like holding a teacup in the hotel room? I agree. That is definitely what happened. they were like when he was had COVID they weren't thinking about B-roll of him being sick

and needing it and they do they need that stuff that they would have a cameraman in the room with him well they wouldn't that was probably why they and I don't even know if he would have had his he wouldn't even had his phone so what they would have had to do is like place a camera or a phone outside his room

have him bring it in it takes some footage of him not feeling good in which they could have done that but maybe they just weren't thinking about it. Well, yeah, and what we saw in the scenes of him blowing his nose were not taken from a phone and they were taken by a third party. So interesting. I never thought of this. I think last week when he was sick, we did say, isn't it interesting how much they still allowed him to be around people even though he was sick?

And so that does, this does solve that where maybe they shot a lot of this after the fact. Do you think that they didn't want him to have a computer or a phone? and that's why they didn't do it because I just feel it's weird that they wouldn't like slip it under the door. Yeah, it could be. I mean, yeah, he connects the internet and reads everything about a season

and reads about all the women. Exactly, and all the girls. I did that during my season. That one room in Portland had an iPad and it controlled the temperature in the room and the TV and all that and it had internet. And so I got on the internet and I researched every single person

that was on my season and everything that was going on and what people were saying. I don't know if it was good or bad, but I did it. Yeah. So, yeah, that's probably one of the reasons. Just interesting that Caitlin picked up on it.

And a little bit juicy. Very juicy. I love it. Next headline is this. Claire Crawley responds to Bachelor Zach claims he wasn't allowed to intervene in drama. And the quote here is, you don't have to do anything that producers tell you to do. Just comes with consequences if you don't. That's kind of what we were saying a few weeks ago. Okay. So in an entertainment weekly video that was posted earlier this month,

Zach said, when someone steals you, and I don't know if I can say all this, but I got to keep my mouth shut, let it happen as much as I can. So there are times when I want to speak up and be like, oh yeah, all right, let's go talk. But it's for the environment we're in that it has to be handled by the women. He also said, I think my face gives it away a lot, whether or not I want to be pulled or not. I'm really bad at hiding it. He's right there. I'm really bad at hiding when I'm feeling. I'm like really so bad at it so I kind of just let it play out and then

okay so that's that's one theory on it as the lead I feel like Ben you are better to give a response to this before I go into what Claire's response was yeah I mean it's a balance right

it's a balance it's a it definitely is a balance however um kind of you know we are you are the lead of a season where everybody, the contestants and you are participating in this experience. We've just hammered that today. And part of his job is to, you know, it's what everybody's intention is going in. My intention was I wanted everybody probably based on my own issues with wanting people to leave experiences with me and be like, I'm glad he was there. I wanted everybody to come

on my season. And even if they were let go, they were just happy they did it. And so that's how I navigated any drama or controversy is can we settle this? Can we come to a place of agreement? Because I don't want you leaving feeling like this was a bad experience for you. I think I failed with Olivia during that. I don't think I did a good job at helping protect her. But for the most part, that season, I feel like the women left and we're in a good place. Now, Zach went into this and his intention that we heard very clearly was he was here because he wanted to find love. Like he, Zach, wanted to find love. And so everything that he is doing is on that pursuit and the you know we've seen that with you know the controversy with

the women and so maybe he isn't as interested in turning into drama because he doesn't really focus as much on the experience in general he just cares about when he's with somebody are they getting closer to deciding are they the right match for each other or not so that may be why he stays out of it it doesn't intrigue him it's not a part of his pursuit and the person that is like kind of being a little bit more produced is probably someone that he doesn't like care to really sure continue with the process right so it's like whatever i'll do this for a show but claire is exactly right when she says in the comment section tell you to do you do not have to do what the producers tell you to do that's why um in the past i've always said hey editing yes that has been a

problem for some i won't discount that but in general when you blame the producers for making you do thing. My response is, you don't have to do it. Now, it does come with consequences. Maybe if you don't, but you don't know what those consequences are, if they're great or small. You just don't have to do what the producers tell you to do. That is not a thing that you have to do. Well, Claire wrote that underneath that video of Zach explaining why he made the choices he did. She said, you don't have to do anything with the quotes around have to do anything the producers don't do. But she does add just comes with the, consequences if you don't yeah i mean we saw it with clare she got up and left like a few weeks

into her season and had a whole production set waiting behind and like she just said no i'm doing this sorry guys and she did it and now it came with consequences but we ended up getting tasha you know from that so it all worked out all right final headline out today rachel the former bachel speaks out after zach shall cross references their past again on the bachelor i was surprised to see Rachel speak out on Zach after last week's episode because he has been kind of going around still bringing up the fantasy suite or whatever happened between the two of them and there

multiple times throughout his press tour being The Bachelor. So I wasn't sure if Rachel was the biggest fan, but she did come to his defense last week when people were specifically going after him about the way that he handled the Greer conversation and said, let's all be mindful and extend a little bit of compassion and grace towards the leads of this show.

I think that's a great thought. But, you know, they are the lead of the show. And so we are going to talk about their decision making and how they're navigating it. That's part of watching the show as fans. But yes, when it comes to personal hits on people and claiming their this and that and, you know, saying terrible things that make people doubt themselves, not fair but yeah of course not we don't want like the actual bullying but like what we do here on the podcast which is critique the episodes and critique some of the moves made you watch it you know

got to do it yeah we're in these journeys we're in it and i am personally actually very excited for the rest of this season because as we've mentioned many times uh probably the coolest part about this season is there has been a lack of drama and there is a lot of connections still being formed And there's a lot of people right now that we could see with Zach at the end. That is exciting. And it makes me very intrigued for the next few episodes. We'll be on the edge of our seat form. Hey, Ben, I have a thought.

We keep saying that we feel like a lot of these girls are in contention. Sure. Do you think that normally there are these many girls in contention? At this point, yes. But we just don't see it. But we don't really see it because there's more drama storylines. I think. Yeah.

So they are giving us the connection that we've been asking for. They really have listened to the fans in that sense. And I have really been quite intrigued the past couple episodes as I continue to be confused where this is all going to go. They're listening to the fans. This feels more like a season from, you know, 2013 than it does from a season of recent because drama has taken a backseat to love stories. And I think if the fans that are watching it, I think they're enjoying that. I think they're into that. I know I am at least.

And so, yeah, it'll be an interesting end of the season. Well, until next time, until next week, when we break down another episode of The Bachelor, I've been Ben. I've been Ashley. See ya. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency.

Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free Iheart radio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Hi, it's Honey German and I'm back with season two of my podcast. Grasias. Come again. We got you when it comes to the latest in music and entertainment with interviews with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition.

I haven't auditioned in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about all that's viral and trending with a little bit of cheesement and a whole lot of laughs. And of course, the great bevras you've come to expect. Listen to the new season of Grasias Come Again on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

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