The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Spoiler Alert! After the Final Rose with Rachel Recchia and Joan Vassos

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

The first Golden Bachelorette Joan Vassos and former Bachelorette Rachel Recchia are fresh from After the Final Rose and they're taking over the pod with SPOILERS! Rachel and Joan share an inside look at how things ended up for Mel. We get into his “proposal” (if you want to call it that) and how it felt to watch a romantic moment with almost no emotion. Plus, find out what happened when Gerry Turner and Theresa Nist both showed up to After the Final Rose!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the almost famous podcast with IHeartRadio. It's Patcher Nation, Joan Bassos, and Rachel Rukia. jumping in to take over for the almost famous podcast. We just got back from the Golden Bachelor finale and after the final rose taping and we're going to talk all about it.

So consider this, your spoiler alert. If you haven't watched the finale yet, because we are about to cover it all. Okay, Rachel, we have so much to talk about. So me and Joan drove together on the way here and I was like, okay, let's just like make sure we're on the same page. Joan has so many good points. And I was so excited for everyone to hear her.

point of view because I feel like you have such a unique perspective being the only golden bachelorette and in my opinion maybe ever well we don't know about that we don't know but no but i feel like we um have a lot of the same opinions you've been through this journey also and i think it's all that different um coming from a different age so but i really want to talk about like how this started out as a cliffhanger so we have all now waited a week to find out what's going to happen with Cindy. And Cindy, I feel like, okay, first of all, let's guess, did you, who did you think was going to win? Well, I feel like the way they made it seem, we would think that it's Cindy because she is like you said so many times on the way here, she's so emotionally available. And I think we get

Cindy's inner monologue of how she's truly feeling. And I think it could have been peg all along, but maybe we just didn't know because she hasn't been so up front with her emotions. But then neither has he. So maybe like could that ever work? If neither one is saying how they feel, could that really ever work? So I feel like you that Cindy was going to be the winner because you can't have two emotionally unavailable people actually coming together. It just seems like so unlikely that it wouldn't work.

But I did feel like he was starting to give her what she needed. I think the cliffhanger ended with her saying this begs the question, are you ready? Or are you, do you have the will? Do you have the will? And he said, if there's a will away, she gives you the question is, do you have the will? And he said, yes. So I thought, okay, okay, we're headed in the right direction now. I'm feeling good about it.

But as the conversation continued, it somehow started going negatively. And I'm not really sure where it went off so badly because I didn't feel like Mel was being any different than he had ever been and maybe he was giving a slight bit more finally he was saying yeah there is a will if we want to do it we can make it happen I'm not completely there I'm not in love but he said you know I think

I felt like he was encouraging and then all of a sudden have lived and I'm like what the heck I think it's so interesting because I think it is such a bachelor nation thing to give an ultimatum before a fantasy suite in so many different ways

and even going into mine on the bachelor when I was a contestant, I remember telling him, I'm falling in love with you. If you don't even feel like you're near that, how are we going to get through this? So I want to be like, you know, that overnight time, it does tell you a lot. So much happens.

So I get it. But like getting that little bit that you need to go into that, I understand her. But I think, like you said earlier, like he is just not giving enough that she was just done. I feel like she's expecting too much from him. and it all came down to this moment and he hasn't given that to her

the entire season. I think she was expecting too much and I think they could have gone and done fantasy suites. Yeah, what's your opinion on that? Do you think she should have definitely gone? I absolutely don't. I mean, the conversation is the biggest part. It really is. You find out so much

much. And I think we can't even express that to the audience. Like, that is where you kind of start to make a decision. So much. I figured out mine at my fantasy sweets. And I said, I'm not having a physical relationship in the fantasy suites. I think that it's hard on the relationship that comes out of fantasy suites. I mean, out of, you know, the...

Jen said no beds. I'm like, we're no vans. No beds. No beds. I'm iconic to this day. I just felt like that would give me a better outcome. And I feel like she missed that opportunity. And that may have gotten Mel to where he is now with Peggy.

And she, you're with Pegg. And she never gave him the chance. I feel like I got to wonder if she's ever going to look back on this and say maybe I screwed that up that, you know, that one last day, that one really meaningful, those meaningful conversations could have gotten him to where he was with Peg. And she could be, she could have been sitting on that stage at the end tonight. I know. And I just feel like we heard Mel say so many times tonight, he has such a sports mindset. Yeah. He every analogy. It's not over till it's over. I quit the game. And I think in his mind, she was quitting.

She was a quitter, and he wanted someone that was going to play until the game was over. And then as soon as Sidney, I feel like maybe she wanted him and go after her a little bit. As much as she says, I don't. I think she was shocked. He did it. I was surprised he didn't. I was surprised to. He just sat there and was like, okay, I'm done.

But, you know, I really want to be the girl, too. Like, she took me. No, we love Sydney. Like, I relate to Sydney more than Pegg for sure. Oh, I agree. For sure. And I love that she took the power back and didn't give it to him. I'm not positive she did the right thing.

I would agree. I wish you would have just had one more conversation. Yeah, I really want to be like, you go, girl, you did it. You had the power, you as much power as he does. But God, I'm not sure if she did the right thing. And I'm really disappointed to myself because I want to be all about that bold move. I know. I'm trying to be all about the bold move.

No, and I love the bold move. But I think with Bachelor, the moments that move me the most are the moments where like, you're feeling so sorry because this person put everything out there and the Bachelor of Bachelor at rejected them. And they can't do anything about it. And it just makes you feel for them. And I wish we had that moment with Sydney where if she wasn't chosen that we could feel that.

And we'd be like cheering for her to be the next Golden Bachelorette. Yes, absolutely. She's like loved and lost. And she really put it all out there. Yeah, you're right. She stayed the whole course. And now we're like, ooh. And there's another part of that that bothers me a little bit that.

that I feel like it cheated a peg out of being picked. I love that. You said that in the car as well. Like being a last choice. There was no choice. She was only the only person left. I would have loved. And now I know like that would have been really heartbreaking for Cindy, right?

If she had stayed the course, done fantasy suites. And then he picked Pegg instead of her. But I feel like as far as their relationship, I feel like it would have been really good for Peg. I agree. It would have made their relationship stronger. What did you think when they went into the conversation the next morning? He came to her room. I was sitting there and I'm like, can you spit it out?

He kept dragging this on. Like she thought she was getting broken up with. And she was being like really like. She was like, okay, okay. All right. Well, okay. I understand. I understand.

You kept saying it no matter what, this will never change the way I feel about you. Like, I'm not sure what he meant by that. Yeah. Like, why wouldn't it have changed the way he felt about her? Right. Was he saying, I felt more strongly about you anyway, so her leaving makes no difference. He never says that. Right.

He just, just, he was saying, it doesn't make me change the way I feel about you. And I'm like, I don't understand that. And she kept saying, okay, okay, okay. That was a really uncomfortable conversation. And I think it's uncomfortable because we're watching two very unemotional people who are not opening up. And you're watching them just kind of like, kind of have a conversation about their feeling. Like, she's the last one. She's your winner.

I know. They dance around so much and never say how they really feel. I'm like, how are you guys going to get there? I mean, they might be perfect for each other because they just don't have a feeling, which, I mean, at some point I do understand not putting feelings first. I putting logic first, but in this environment, you have to be a little bit vulnerable. and they didn't even give us a little. Somebody wanted the two at least. We've gotten zero.

We got it most from Cindy. That's who we got it from this whole episode. We got the most emotion under Cindy. But I'll tell you what I did like, and I felt like I learned a lot about Mel, and it was not from Mel. It was from his sons. And when I think Pegg did that really good,

you know, pick one or the other, they told us a lot about him. And just those, that really short conversation like that we haven't seen. I haven't seen a great sense of humor. I haven't seen, you know, the things that the adjunct that they chose were things I hadn't actually seen.

And I thought that was the most revealing thing that we got out of this, maybe this whole show about Mel. No, truly. Yeah. And his friend, I remember she said that he's the life of the party and he brings the energy. And I'm like, are we talking about the same? Mel. Mel Owens?

Where is it? It was so interesting because those are the people that know him the most. And I wish he would have let us see that side, but he just chose to not. I, I, I, a bit, I wonder if, maybe it's the way this season was produced or edited because I know these women are all like pretty incredible.

They're beautiful women. They're smart. They're accomplished. And they have all kind of fallen for him. And I don't feel like they would have fallen for this empty person that we are seeing. This person that isn't given anything. So I very much wonder if it's being produced in a way that we are just being left out of these conversations.

We don't see him. I mean, you would like to think so, right? I mean, he is a good looking man. Yeah. Like, we can agree. And I think sometimes they can put a good-looking bachelor in front of us. He could say nothing and we'll all fall for him like it's happened before. But I mean, their emotion that they have in this, you would think there is something exactly, right?

Like behind the scene. It was so emotionally invested, like on day one. Like, and same with Cheryl and Debbie. And, I mean, there's so many of them that were emotionally invested really, really early on. It just seems so, like, just like, jive with my way I'm thinking of these women. and these being strong, accomplished and, like, have lived a lot of life. They're not just falling for some smuck. Genuinely.

Like an empty guy that isn't going to provide anything or add anything to life. Because all these women have pretty rich lives already. Families, they've worked a lot. They've gone through a lot of years to make the life that they have and their good lives. They do not need an empty guy to just be filling in the bed next to them. Truly. And I think we could maybe see that more with like our side of the bachelor where it's like, I've never been married.

I don't really know what this is supposed to. feel. Whereas, like, on the flip side, all of those women have been in love, most of them and have experienced the love of their life. So if this isn't even kind of close, why would you push that far? Why would you do? Such a good point. This is things like, I don't even think about. I'm just like, what's going on here? Is it the edit? I mean, it has to be, I feel like, oh, maybe. Okay, so let's get to, um, let's get to the proposal. I'm putting that in quotes. These are air quotes I'm doing right now if you can't see me. Um, that was so sorry. Yeah, so we see this beautiful scene. Mel, he's on an island in the middle of it.

It's, is it Antigua? I thought it's like in Tiga, but there was like another, they took him to like deserted island to look like, or at least a deserted beach. He's standing there. Yes. Like beautiful blue suit. She comes in that awesome dress. The best I've seen her look in like, like the evening gown. Yeah, yeah, Carrie Fatman were giving you, a big of pause for that one. And she just for a speech. Wind blowing. Yes, her hair. The speeches are happening. Yeah.

What's going to happen? She's not, she didn't, did she say, I love you in that speech? I don't remember. No, she didn't think so. And you know what I was also thinking now that we're talking about it? You know when we're talking about like finale, the day, like, you always see the people getting ready. They're on their balcony. They're drawing.

They're talking about how in love they are. Their emotions. I don't even think we got some of that. We got some B-roll of Patty. But was she talking about her emotion? I don't think so. Not at all. They're holding up the dress that they think they're going to get that's going to be the dress that's the most important day or I'm so in love.

They're looking at their jewelry. They're trying to knock. It just cut. They were on boats. They were on an island. Boats to an island, motorboats to an island with windblower. And all of a sudden, the Neil Lane pops out. And you have such a good point about the Neil Lane.

Oh, what the ring looked like. We had a hard time to see. So he does his speech after she does her speech. Her speech was kind of a lot about, like, how much fun they had together. Once again, didn't talk a lot of emotions. His didn't really either. Talked about, you know, like him coming along in this process and getting to where they are. I'm not positive.

Did he say, I love you to her? God, how do I not remember this? No, because they didn't. They didn't say it, right? No. So neither one of them said, I love you. And if we're wrong, we could be. I don't think we're wrong because they revealed the feelings later.

It was later. That's why I think we're getting confused. So here we are standing on the, like, engagement circle. The pedestal as we do. The pedestal is sitting there. He pulls out a ring. Not. On one knee.

The thing, it's a Neil Lane. We all know what that means, right? It's an engagement ring. Except for he doesn't say, will you marry me? He does this roundabout speech about exploring the future with you. Sounds engagement. Right. I couldn't see the ring very good.

He puts it on her finger. It doesn't look like a single diamond. So it looks maybe not like an engagement ring. He doesn't say, well, you marry me. There are like missing elements to this proposal. But I still walk away thinking maybe there are, maybe he did it. Maybe they're engaged. And then in the car you said to me, are they engaged?

And I'm like, no. I don't think they didn't get engaged. They didn't get engaged. I'm positive of it now. Why was there a ring? Because we've had this in the past. I remember on Matt James' season with Rachel, he said I, I'm not going to propose.

We always feel like we know they are not proposing. Yeah. The ring went on the finger. The champagne was popped. It sure was. They were like, cheers. We did it. All of a sudden, live audience, the happy couple comes out.

There they are. Looking beautiful. Loved of the dress. Great energy. Peg is so excited. I wore the shirt version. Randy, shout out to you. Hey, Randy Rom.

And Jesse goes, do you have plans on getting engaged? And we're like, everyone in the section turned around in the audience. Do we not just watch? It makes sense why he didn't get on one knee. Yeah, well, I thought he didn't get one knee because he'd be able to get up. He's a little crickety. The hip or the knee, we don't know what's been for boys. All of it.

That is such, and it's in the sand. It's not very stable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It all makes sense. It all makes sense. No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files. Rule of culture number 72.

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Listen to business history on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. You get it, your podcast. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on?

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What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad.

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you need to listen to Ido Part 2. Listen to I Do Part 2 on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Okay, so they're not engaged, but they are together and they finally said the words we've been waiting to hear. But before they said it, they said, we know that neither one of us are emotional people. So we're working on that.

And then he said, I love this woman. And she said, I love him. And that was finally, it was literally in the last moments of the show, maybe the last 30 seconds. Which is absolutely crazy. I think we have never in history seen a final couple sit on that stage and say, we're not big on feels. That's the words they use. We're not big on feels.

And we're like, I'm like, am I supposed to feel emotion towards you as a couple in route for you now? When you're up there saying you don't, you barely have emotion. It's a very odd thing to happen in a bachelor season. Okay, they both knew they came on this show. the show is really about feelings. It's probably that it's the only thing it's an act.

No, genuinely. The fun comes and it is so much fun, but it's coming down to who can you spend the rest of your life with. So, like, feelings are going to be important here. And both of them say that they're not good about expressing feelings, which is hilarious that the two of them ended up together at the end of the soldier. I mean, we were talking about this. It does make sense.

We see them. Maybe, you know what? Like, I don't know if Cindy could have really stayed with knowing that, like, Like, there wasn't a proposal that the love you came so far down the line. It really had to have been pegged because she's fine with going at his pace. And I think that's what you mean. I like that. She admitted that she wasn't in love with him when he wasn't in love with her yet.

Maybe that's the thing that made him comfortable. Like the pressure was off and he was not ready to commit. And if Cindy had just given him a little grace and just said, like, I'll go at your pace. I'm good with that. She could have been the last one standing. Yeah. I'm still, I'm still a little, I know, I love that they are together. I love that they're in love now.

They looked extremely happy. I still think that there was a path that Cindy could have gotten there too. And I feel like we match her nation missed that. It feels, I agree. It was a little empty. I've been to so many AFRs, I don't think I've ever walked away feeling so disconnected from the franchise in a way. I'm like, this is not the franchise, I've been, and it has nothing to do with them.

it's just the amount of, like, no emotion. It's so hard to be invested. Lack of emotion. Especially on the last day. So I only had one person going into my last day. Me too. But I was so emotional and, like, I don't think it's bad to not have two people coming to, you know, the engagement, you know, mound or circle or whatever it is. Sacrificial altar, if you will.

The altar. I think it's very uncomfortable and we feel very sorry for that person. And so I thought, it doesn't bother me when the person chooses to not have them come there and goes and says, you're not the person for me. But she's self-eliminated. And so I feel like we missed that conversation. Like I like it when they don't have two people coming to the proposed place. And you're excited.

And oh my gosh, they're in love. And it's just her. And she doesn't know it's just her. And she's going to be so excited. He went to her. It was just her. We lost all of that excitement. And I think that, we got nothing.

They tried to, like, keep us on the hook with, like, even when he was going to have her meet his family, he was like, well, there's, you know, maybe there's still, it might not be her. I'm like, well, then who's it going to be? No one? Like, it was a hard watch, you guys. It was a hard watch. And I feel like we want to root for them. Like, we do root for them. But sitting here, I'm just like, the whole world is definitely, half of them are going to think they're engaged, half or not.

We know that he loves food. What else do we know? Like the season's over. What do I actually know about him? And what do I know about the pet? They have a really busy, they did talk about like their very busy schedule going forward. I think she's going to wear him out.

Do you think they're going to last? You know what? I do. Just because I feel like she's along for the ride, he's long for the ride. Feelings will come if they come. I think at this point the way they're talking about it is we just want to enjoy each other's company.

If it happens, it happens. And sometimes I think it does work out for those couples. Yeah, it sounds like they have a lot of fun plant. Yeah. I mean, like they talked about the next like, like two months, and there's so much to do it on how they're going to get it and fit it all in. I think eventually he's going to get tired. I was going to say, what do you think?

I'm a little work for a job. I feel like you, out of everyone, would have the best gauge. Yeah. Looking back, you guys are still going strong. I mean, yeah. It's hard coming out, and you know this, too. So, you know, being on the show, you're in the bubble, then you do happy couples, which it's less of a bubble.

You're not, you don't have cameras around you, but you're still living out in the real world. Today is the day. The test starts, really. Yeah. Because they have to be, they have to exist in the world where there's a lot of criticism and a lot of opinions, and they're going to have a lot of people coming at them. And I think the next three months are very telling. Yeah.

I think that's when, or maybe the next six. six months. What's your advice to him if he's listening? Yeah. Because they didn't ask Joan, which I was also pissed about. They asked Gary and Chalk and I was like, um, Joan is sitting right there in the middle and I think she has advice too. I asked Jock. I said, do you want to take that question? Oh, so he did. Okay, I'm literally making fun and they communicate so well. But she didn't ask. I was like, Jessie. I do. I know. Joan. Yeah. I do have advice because I feel like, um, like you finally are out with your friends and your family and the world and you're out in public and I think some people get they like the fame and I think you need to like your

relationship way more than you like the fame because it's over I think it it destroys people I think um you you become as important as people are are saying like they're starting to believe your own press you know it was never believe your own press good or bad like people are like loving you as a couple and, like, you need all that outside reinforcement. It feels good. And when you stop getting that, then it's really on you, too, to be the reinforcement for each other. You need to start that process early. You can't wait for it to stop from the public.

Like, it's your responsibility to make sure the relationship is good. I'm interested to see, though, him moving forward because it feels like he didn't, like, do much press. How involved is he with the public? Like, I feel like for you and for Gary, it was so, you know, push to the whole world. It was so excited and everyone was getting ready. And his, I didn't even know what was starting. It felt kind of just like very private. It was crazy, wasn't it?

Yes. Well, I think that he made that bad statement. They needed him to get out there and apologize to the women before anybody was really going to want to listen to his press. I don't think he had an opportunity to do it because he had started the journey in such a bad way. And he, you know, and he overcame that. He really did. He really did overcome that. And he had us all believing that that wasn't a criteria, that age thing that he had said about.

So, and like he, and it's true. His final two were over 60. Yeah, yeah, both of them were. So, like, he did a really good job of coming from a negative position. He made it back to, like, ground zero. He just didn't make it past that. Yeah. It'll be interesting.

It's going to be so interesting because, I mean, obviously, seasons ebb and flow. But, like, the excitement of yours and Gary's, it just. It feels so different this time, which is like, I know. It'll be so interesting to see if we'll get a Bachelorette and who it would be if we do. So if you looked at the audience really well, so many of the women from his season were there. Weren't almost all?

Oh, it felt like almost all. Yeah. So, like, let's take Cindy. Well, we're not going to take her out of the equation. So the logical person to choose would probably be Sinty. That's kind of like pretty standard bachelor. Yeah. But he had some pretty incredible women.

in for on his season. Do you have somebody that you would choose? First of all, would you choose Cindy? And if you didn't choose Cindy, who would you choose from that match? It's so difficult. Like, obviously, it's like you would feel like Sydney. But then we also talked about, like, maybe if she would have pushed us a little bit further that I could refer her a little bit more.

And Joan and I were talking about this on the way, like, even in Gary's season there, obviously there was a final three and amazing choices. But I remember Jones, like, leaving. And it really stuck out to me. So I feel like there are so many, like you said, deserving women. But what do you think, Debbie? So I love the idea. She's so sweet.

I just love her. And I love the idea of something different. So like we have Taylor Frankie Paul. She is a shake-up right now. I think it's going to be an insanely popular season. I think that we like that we've never had one that has three kids, two baby daddies, had a sex scandal. and is a convicted criminal.

I mean, there's a lot going on. Joan! Let's just put it all out there. We all know it. It's not an... I think, though, I'm kind of intrigued by her. No, I have to watch. Like, I think the whole world is...

So she's so different. Like, we've been seeing maybe the same old thing a lot of, a lot of years. So it makes me think that maybe Debbie is a really good choice because we have not seen an older person that has never been married before. In fact, we have very few contestants that have been married before, only one

on the Golden Bachelor season. Really? Only one on my season. And she was the only one on that season. So we only had three that have come on the show at all that have never been married. I love that. That's such a good idea. I wanted it. I love so badly. I feel like she's never, well, she's found love

before. She's actually had serious relationships. But she's never been married. She's never had like her person. The person that you plan your future with and you're going to grow old with. And I feel like I'd really be rooting for her almost more than I root for with Cindy. No, I agree because it would be the first time the audience. Of course, Golden, they always say like second chance at love. But it's her first just in her golden years. Yeah.

That's such a good point. Wait, we should start campaigning for this because that's such a good idea. I've totally said it like a five times on podcast. I really love. Finding the actual love of her life. The actual love in her golden years would be beautiful. And she would be so pure. Can you imagine her wedding? Like you have to televise it. No, you would have to. And me and Joan will be in the front row as flower girls. I won't be like, wait, Joan called this early. I voted for you early. Yes.

And she looked beautiful. She was there tonight. Oh, I didn't even see her. I feel like I missed so many of the Golden Ladies. She's beautiful. And I think that she would be really good. And I loved her heart and she bared her soul. And I don't think she would have given up if she had made it to the final two.

I don't think she would have said, you're not giving me what I need. And I think she would have been there until the end for him. Yeah. Oh. Wait, I love this. What a crazy ending. It was an ending. I don't know how I feel about it.

I usually have a data process and I can kind of get my brain to like how I feel about it. I'm just like, I'm just like spinning it all out right now as you are. Like, did I like that ending or did I not like that ending? What do you think? I think I almost, well, I've never been to and after the final rose that was like pre-taped. So the world doesn't know right now, which is so interesting because we get to have these thoughts without, sometimes I think one way and then I'll look online and I'm like, oh, maybe

I was wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll hear other people's. I've never walked away and just didn't feel warm and fuzzy. I don't feel warm and fuzzy. Ever, AFR is such a good feeling walking away. You're so happy and hopeful. I feel like Cindy ripped us off of that, their ending. It was like an abrupt ending that I wasn't ready for. I feel like they didn't say they loved each other when they were standing. They were on the beach. We got a weird ring thing happening

That was maybe he was a proposal. Maybe it wasn't. They come out and sit next to each other. Finally say I love you, but the love you wasn't like. I'm so in love with you. I've seen with you. And the more I, we've done our happy couple visits. And I've fallen so deeply in love with you.

It's like, yeah, I do love this woman now. And she's like, yeah, I love this guy. No, you're so right. And then they're like, we don't do feels. And everyone's like, oh, yay. Yeah. Okay. Like love is in the air.

no truly yeah and you know what maybe that's just how they are and and they're the type of people that are gonna share that all in private which i totally love but it's just like it's not what you do it's hard for us because we've bared worse than our soul we've like done oh my gosh so much because it's just you know in the name of love and it's it's part of the show and the audience follows along i know and you know what bachelor nation gets invested in you because you are being real and you're like and they can relate to your feelings We've all loved and lost, or we've all, you know, had bad relationships. And so, like, talking about those and people relating to you, they gave us nothing to relate to. And it's so true. I know. And we're so happy for that. We really are. But this is just, like, our raw feelings, which people may not agree with.

But, yeah, we are coming straight from Amphart. Yeah, we're like, no, we love them. We do love them. We do love them. We do love them. We do love them. We're so happy for them. But the warm and fuzzy is not there.

We're missing that. Yes. Um, there was a little part of me. Actually, there was a big part of me that hoped this, that he would propose right there. Has that happened before? Yes. Um, who was it? Was it?

Somebody did. Jason and Molly? I can't remember. Somebody got down on one knee. I think he was Jason and Molly. Got down one and one knee. But I thought he might. Then you're like, okay, wait.

Okay. Okay. Okay, we did this right now. Yeah, maybe he's just like, he didn't know. And now it's, it's, it's, and they're still married. Yeah. And like, like, they finally said they're in love. And I thought.

he was going to, like, get down on one knee and pull out a ring. And Neil Lane was sitting next to us. And Neil was right there. We should ask him. We could ask him. I bet Neil wouldn't. We're like, was that a proposal? Or was that a ring?

He'd be like, I don't know. I don't think we would know. I was hoping that he would do it. I had this big thought in my mind. And then when they sort of did the bloopers, I'm like, well, it's not happening. As soon as the bloopers ran, we saw a clip of Taylor. Yeah. And that was it.

Yeah. And then it was over. And it just, then we went home. And here we are. You know who made me feel the most warm and fuzzy was Taylor? Mm-hmm. I liked her. Yeah.

She, like, I have all these. And I've watched Secret Lines of Mormon Wives. I actually, I think it's a great show. I know. I can't wait for the next season. It's so exciting. And I hear the next season is juicy. Big time.

Yes. I talked to some of the girls at, you were there with me. Oh, at dancing. They were there. Yes. Oh, they were giving me a little scoop. Um, I feel like Taylor, Frankie Paul is emotional. and, like, she's raw, and I think she's like that on

Super Lives and Mormon Wives. She's, like, she's always super honest. I think I, out of all the things tonight, she was the most, she was the most emotional, other than, no, just seeing that small clip, you're so right, she's already saying, I can see my husband, I feel like I can fall in love. I've already been through so much as is way harder. Like, and you could see it, like, watching her sit down there. I'm like, oh, my God, I felt like I was there again.

Like, I was relating to it. I've been where Mel's been and I still wasn't relating to it. And I sat on that couch show of you and I still couldn't connect. I didn't connect. I know. And I've been kind of the Cindy person. Like I left, you know, Geary's season early. And like we had, you know, we had started to form a bond.

And I don't know. I was disappointed Cindy left. I was disappointed in their lack of emotions. I don't feel like this finale wowed me at all. And usually finale's deal. Yeah, the most interesting part was probably that Gary and Trousseau were in the same audience tonight. And that was probably the juiciest part. Was that nuts?

That one, I mean. Oh, my guys, really. We had to free all them here. Yes. So many exes in the audience. I'm like, when they do that, I'm like, did they know? I know that the other person was going to be there. Very interesting studio audience.

If you guys can pick them out. Yeah. I know the studio. Yeah, it's like by the ex. I think the most Bachelor Nation filled I'd ever seen. I love it. I love it. It's like a big reunion.

Yeah, it was like two whole sections of Bachelor Nation people. So much fun. It was really good, yeah. I am excited to see if the Golden series continues. Me too, John. I feel like every single year it's on the chopping block. I'm worried this time. And especially Bachelor's, because Bachelorette's always on the chopping block.

We know that. That's the first one to go. Everybody knows Bachelorette doesn't get as good. go to ratings this bachelor because the women make a season we do I know the men of my season made the season no the men of me are always amazing they were great but the women it's just it's so they're so fun to watch so yeah it'll be interesting I hope it's something I wouldn't mind Joan being the only golden golden bachelor I think it's so special like she truly is like the only golden I would be like okay we're just staying on the pedestal forever never I don't think I don't think that

there are lots of ones that are deserving I my I'm voting for Debbie right now Now? Team Debbie. We love it. Yeah. And I don't want Cindy to hate me and think that I wasn't voting for her. No, of course we would be so happy. Yes. And I don't think Cindy needs our help, by the way. Yes. Cindy, you're a beautiful, stunning. I, her dress was amazing. Like the silver sparkly giving Cinderella. So which dress did you like the best? I actually loved both. And I love that they both went sparkles.

Yeah, big time. It was giving revenge dress for Sydney. And Peggs was just so fun. She was dancing before she came out. It was sparkling. It was definitely her personality. It was her personality. And Cindy's was her personality. Yes.

Yeah, she's a little more subdued. Even the sparkle, it was like a silver gray. It was beautiful. And everyone liked beautiful. Maybe we'll get a wedding and then we'll see some more emotions. Maybe they'll do a big bunch of wedding. Maybe they'll do their own vows. It'd be terrible.

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What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show, boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes.

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Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so I feel like the juiciest part of this whole episode was the fact that Teresa and Gary were in the audience together. What the heck? I saw Teresa and I thought Gary wasn't here and then all of a sudden I turned around and I see Gary and his fiancé.

Yeah, walking in. And they, okay, so they were sitting in sections right next to each other. So you could, I would say right next to Gary. I didn't even know she was in the audience half the time because she was sitting in the same row. Oh, so you couldn't see across. I couldn't see across.

They were like next to each other basically. She was with Leslie. but just like a bleacher apart or like... Literally they could throw a rock and hit each other. No, genuinely. I know.

They were so close I didn't, I couldn't even see them. I know. The prompter was right in the middle. Well, so I kept looking over to see if there was going to ever be any eye contact. And I think only one time

did Gary look over there. What was really, like at commercial breaks, we all get up and walk around and say hi to each other and talk to each other. Running around. Gary never moved from his chair. He didn't. Because I don't think he wanted to have

an encounter with her. I think that it was no one came over to him. And she really didn't move from her seat. She stayed kind of over with the Golden Bachelor. She'd come over and see me. I mean, we're friends. Yeah. She was with Leslie I saw.

Yeah, never those two worlds going to meet. That is absolutely crazy. What I've been seeing in the press. It's crazy. And I bet there's going to be a lot of cameras on both of them throughout this whole taping because I really feel like their story is probably the biggest answer now. And it's crazy because, like, we talk about the warm fuzzies. And I remember at their wedding, I was crying.

He was crying. That was so emotional and seeing, you were there. Oh, yeah. The wedding to where we are now, it's like, it's so hard that this happens to couples, but especially them because I feel like they've both been through so much. And now to be going back and forth in the press, it's so stressful. And they're tearing each other down. They're making each other look, both look bad.

And they're both really, like, pretty good people. I know. And they're making. I feel bad. They're destroying each other. It just keeps going back and forth, back and forth. It's really really disappointing. Yeah.

Like, I think one thing was said, and then, like, I hear something about chopping bodies and hiding bodies. Oh, God. And I'm like, what's happening? I saw Teresa. I'm like, oh, my God. I think it was all taken out of context. No, of course. We know that he's not killing people.

I know. I'm sure. No, we're joking. We're joking. I agree. It was a bad joke. Yes, I agree completely. And it was a magic.

Okay. So, but, I mean, she used. it against him. I feel like maybe. I don't know. I wasn't there, but I don't, I know him. I don't, he's not like his kind of guy would kill somebody. And I don't think he, it was just a really stupid joke. I know. And especially now when like these words are holding a lot of weight because there are so many eyeballs on it. You know what it is doing? It's kind of like knowing that. He's making some money. Oh my gosh. It's so good. We're going to buy that book. All press is good press. They say, I still haven't learned that. Still hurts what it happens. But you're so right.

notice it's bad press. I think he's going to excel some books. I mean, I think I'm, I think everybody left a hole today because they avoided each other. And I'm not sure why Bachelor invited both of them. Do you think they knew? Yeah, because I know Leslie and Teresa didn't get invited until like just a couple days ago when things were really hit in the fan.

No way. This is so messy. I feel like Bachelor producers, you know, they always say like Chris Jenner works harder than the devil. I feel like the Bachelor producers might work harder than Chris Jenner. They really might because that's crazy. I thought it was just like a planned thing. Like everyone was, because it's golden.

There was no other person from our season other than Sandra that was there. And Zonda was there because her sister was on Mel's season. They were the only two people there. That's right. Not a single other person from Gary's season. Me? Leslie. Theresa.

that in Zandra, because Sandra's sister was on Mills. Oh my God, this is messy. Yeah, that's why. I mean, if anybody, if anybody looks at this audience, they're going to figure that. Oh, I feel like that's going to be everything that everyone's talking about. Yes, it's really obvious. Okay, so I feel like we kind of skipped over that really uncomfortable conversation of Mel and Cindy's sitting on the sofa and hers, her saying, like, what happened?

And he, him saying, like, I needed time with you in the fantasy suite. Like, we missed that time. And she said, well, you weren't giving me enough to make me want to go to the fantasy suite with you. When I feel like you could say, like, we need to talk. We don't need to have that physical part of it. And it's just you guys going in a room without cameras. Like, why is that such a big deal? And then she would say, well, you didn't give me enough.

And he said, well, I couldn't give you enough because I needed to tell you stuff. I need to talk to you in fantasy suites. You talk to you without cameras. And she said, well, I wasn't going to go in there without more of a better promise from you or better, more emotions from you. And it just went back and forth and back and forth to the point where Jesse finally jumped in. He had to like referee it.

Oh my gosh. He was pulling in Andy Cohen. Yeah. Which is crazy. We're at a real, like a hostile city reunion. We were like, this is never going to end. Somebody needs to stop it. So he did.

It felt like two bulls, like budding heads. Like both of them, no one was like actually saying how they feel. Yep. And then Jesse said, and it wasn't during this conversation. It was before Mel came out when she was sitting there alone. She said, did you want Mel to come after you? Because Jesse had come and spoken about this is hard. You know, do you, use with opportunity to go after her?

She hasn't left yet. And he said no. And then he asked her, do you wish that he had come? And she said no, and I'm not positive. I also just, I don't like it when it's like, if you cared about someone a little bit after that breakup, I would want to have a talk with them. Even if it was off camera

and being like, listen, can we have five minutes off camera before this is actually over? And the fact that both of them just so easily let it go, it was really disappointing. Yeah. And it's disappointing to hear her say because clearly you felt those feelings and you did want him to come after

you because don't we all? We want the man in the rain and the profession of love and it's like it's sad to hear her. Yeah, man, hello. No, yeah. And it's hard. I think sometimes when months go by and then you're like, oh, never mind. I never really liked them. And it feels like that's what we were kind of watching.

I know. Yeah. And I felt like he should have gone after her if he cared enough. So maybe she didn't. Even just to have one more conversation. And it really, I think, is just both of them being stubborn. And I hate to say, yeah, I do wish that she would have just went to the fantasy suite to talk because it's not like he was giving peg promises. And she said, well, you can't give them.

If that was happening, I would agree with her 100%. I could have totally self-eliminated. She could have self-eliminated after that. Yes. And even in the morning. Yeah. In the morning, if I still feel this way, I'm going to leave. Yeah.

But I want you to know going in, I need to have these important conversations with you. I'm going to make my decision. Yeah, she could have said that in front. I'm not going to go, this isn't going to be a physical thing, but that's what was keeping her back. Because the thing that was keeping her back was the physical part of it because she wanted to have those conversations. So why don't you just say, that's off the table for us. I do want to spend time with you, but I don't want to, I don't think I'm at that place yet with you. I don't have enough from you to want to do that. Yeah. Like, why couldn't have that been? Like, no,

the conversation. I agree. And like, I think the fantasy suite, they always do visually make it seem like so sexy. Everybody in the bed in the morning. Yeah, with the robes. And I mean, sometimes it could be a very tiny part, but the main part is like, they don't understand we're in that room for like so many hours, no camera, no phone, no TV. Like, you were talking the entire time. And it really does make a difference. And I wish she would have given him that time. It helped me make my decision. I have to tell you that. I mean, it really, I came out knowing. Yeah. Yeah. It's so important. And I think sometimes the physical thing can block. And I mean, I love the way you did it. And I feel like so many people have done it in the past where like they said

that's off the table. So valid. Make that like no. up front. I love that, but I mean, it is so important just to be like, what are you actually feeling? There's no cameras. How do we move forward? She never did that. And she didn't. And we wish she did. Could have like, okay, here's your ultimatum. In the morning, I'm going to leave. You're right. But let's talk off camera. And I want to give you that because I care about you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and he also did say something like he used the term two years in some part of that conversation. And she said, yeah, I'm not willing to wait two years. Which I do feel. That's a long time. I get that. And I mean, there was something similar

that happened on my season where I had someone who didn't want to get engaged. And it was so important to me at the time that they made that commitment to me. So I do in a way understand where she's coming from. But this is, you know, the bachelor. There's a ring. It is involved. And I completely agree with her. The two years, it was a long time. That is, yeah. That is a long time. remember Joey and Lex had that same conversation and she went to him and like spoke to him like you know said I have this physical thing that it happens you know that she is going to have a hard time having babies and she needed the timeline to be quicker and he said I'm not going to get there and so she self-eliminated but I don't think Cindy ever like had that conversation she just

self-illimated before it happened yeah I think we saw a lot of it off camera like in the live audience and after she had months and months and months to like think about it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I have to address my lack of voice. Joan was partying. I was out a little last night. We went out to dinner. We actually went with Bachelor people, which was really fun. I ended up with Pascal was in town.

Oh, so much fun. And C.K. from my season. Yes, all the gold of men. Yep, and he was there and Monica B was there. And we saw them sitting together in the audience. I'm just saying. Wait, tea, more tea. I can't give you any tea.

that's up to them and then um teresa and was like i love that we had quite a fun group i love that joan was partying last night i was in bed at 8 p.m as soon as the the sun went down i'm in bed tucked in i usually have to no i love that you guys went out but we need to get her a tea yeah i know so i'm sorry i couldn't like talk very good but no you sound so much better than you did in the car when we were in the car i was like joan this is going to be an as mr episode Just whisper to me and I'll see what you think. You can just talk. No, you did so.

I feel like your voice bounced back. Do I sound sexy? Oh my God. It's giving raspy. Raspi. Oh, God. Well, don't feel raspy. I feel tired.

I know. It was a long night. It was a long night. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Ben and Ashley, for letting us take over, especially for this really monumental finale. Thank you for letting us do it.

And we're honored that you'd want to hear our opinion. I know we didn't. professional as like you guys but we um have been sat in the seats that they set in and i feel like we had a really good um view of what was no i love it should we do what it's ben's outro always he's like i've been bet i've been joe and this is yeah and i've been rachel okay you you can be ash no you have to say i i'll be the ashley yes okay so i've been joan and i've been rachel and what do they say i forget what they say that and i've been joan i've been rachel we did it the edge What up y'all?

I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who have had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from me? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to the. this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world

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and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of breaking bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood? A Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic that comes

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