The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Stronger Together with Dale Moss and Kat Izzo

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Fresh off the Bachelor in Paradise reunion, Dale and Kat chat with Ben about the allegations of a secret boyfriend, how close Kat and Sean's friendship really was, and where the couple stands with their fellow cast members now. We all saw the camping challenge, but Kat and Dale are telling Ben what viewers DIDN'T see. Plus, we find out how Dale feels about having his name in the running to be the next Bachelor. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweetie. Monica Patton. Elaine Welteroff. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them.

Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't let biased algorithms or degree screens or exclusive professional networks or stereotypes. Don't let anything keep you from discovering the half of the workforce who are stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time to tear the paper ceiling and see the stars beyond it. Find out how you can make stars part of your time. Talent Strategy at tear the paper sealing.org.

Brought to you by opportunity at work in the ad council. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain. I'm breaking down the players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Valicia Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling,

impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Valicia's journey is a master class in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. Listen to Culture raises us on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Before I get into the Paradise Chat, I just want to give a shout out to our hotel we're staying at the Portofino Hotel and Marina. At the Portofino Hotel and Marina in Redondo Beach, every moment comes with a view. From your elegant guest room, gaze across the Pacific, and watch the boats drift by. at Belleen Kitchen dine steps from the marina and savour coastal-inspired SoCal Cuisine. For a touch of adventure, Dockside Adventure Center offers kayaks, paddle boards, and complimentary bikes for a scenic coastal ride. Then return to the hotel's living room where the Portofino Poor Self-Serve Tapwall invites you to unwind and soak in a breathtaking coastal sunset. Discover your seaside escape at the Portofino Hotel and Marina. Now, let's get back to our interview.

This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. Hey, everybody, it's been here with the Almost Famous Podcast. Today, we have Dale and Kat with us. They're coming fresh off of the reunion episode that was just filmed right here on the stage that we're sitting at. Nice stage. It is a nice stage. I want to start. What were your emotions like going into today?

Oh, wow. Be honest. This is a place to be honest. We're breaking it down. Ladies first. Well, post-game conference. Post-game talk.

Well, going into today, obviously, there was a lot of things we needed to discuss from the whole season in general, I'd say. Nervous, but also really excited to be able to, like, share our story and share our time together and kind of, like, catch up with everybody else. But, you know, putting ourselves back in these spaces can be a little nerve-wracking. And coming off of last night's episode was also a lot, too. so but I was mostly excited just to kind of like see everyone and share our relationship yeah because I think you you never know what someone's holding on to or anything like that but our kind of the whole season right we were we were excited about how things finished with us um also the fact that

we've been just building this relationship um in kind of the same way during the season we're like you know whatever happens we'll speak our truth but we're not going to compromise our integrity. We're not trying to get into too much chaos. And at the end of the day, like, we have great relationships with everyone on the show. So, um, yeah, I think it's like there's unknown variables going into this that you don't know may come up. But overall, we were just kind of happy to see everyone. Yeah. I feel pretty confident with him, like, by my side. I will say, like, I can go into uncomfortable environments with Dale and, like, feel safe. So I think coming I'm like, cat, don't burn the stage down.

No, literally. And it works, yeah. But like, yeah, I knew that no matter what if I needed to be like, kind of brought back down to earth, that he would be there. So I saw you whispering in her ear during kind of the most contentious moments of the reunion. I don't think audio will pick it up, but I did watch. What were you just telling her? I was honestly just saying, hey, like, chill, give everyone their time to speak because I think everyone deserves that.

But it's easy to take a lot of things personal, right? Because you go through this experience with people and sometimes it's projection. But at the end of the day as well, I think it's important to understand your emotions and where they're coming from. But, you know, it also like still keep your composure and focus more on our experience, speak your truth, but not be as reactive in understanding. It was the biggest thing because emotions can get heightened. I've been there. But I also think we're so far removed from a lot of the chaos. And that's kind of just how we've been rolling since the show's been done.

He likes it. I do. I feel a lot of other people's emotions. So I want to like, I have a lot to say a lot of times. But he's helped me realize, like, sometimes it's you don't have to say all the things and it's your pick your battles in a way. So he kind of helped me come back down. Dale mentioned here a second ago that you were excited about how your experience ended.

I think that is a shocking statement because from a viewer standpoint, it felt like your relationship was going so well. And then all of a sudden things ended at the worst possible moment in your relationship. Can you bring some clarity to why you said that you were excited about how you guys left? and then also what you two were experiencing as obviously you were kind of in this very tumultuous situation. For me, it was just that we were together, that we stuck up for each other. And obviously there was a competition. You know, I was pretty upset about us losing the physical challenge

because that was the first time in my life I've ever honestly felt vulnerable physically. But we move past that so quickly, but we talk about the weight of the world challenge. And, you know, in theory, we won that challenge. It was a very intense moment with the entire cast coming back. And I think a lot of people in certain situations maybe would have handled it differently. But Kat and I had gone through real challenges that relationships go through in a very short time. But I told her early on in the season, like, I'm not jumping ship. Like, I'm down to ride.

know if I'm down to ride for someone and we get to that point, like, I don't care about what comes our way because we can work through it. And I think we had beautiful moments throughout our relationship, but in one of the most difficult ones when it could have gone either way, that's where we grew the most. And that's what set the foundation for the conversations that we had after we were off Paradise to ask the hard questions in a way that we knew we were asking the questions not to get out of a situation or a relationship to build it stronger than ever

and I think that was just an important thing for both of us Yeah, Kat, when the parliament came back and they walked you know, down through the resort to where you guys were standing did you have a feeling at that point that this was going to turn ugly

or were you kind of thrown off guard once Sean and Alicia started talking? I mean, seeing everybody come back, I was actually really excited. But I remembered mostly like how we had voted, how the season had went. I'm like going against Justice Spencer, like, we're cooked, which is fine. I was so comfortable with where we were at in our relationship at that point. I had absolutely no idea that it was going to be what it was. I sensed some type of energy, which I think I had said to him at some point.

Like, I think Alicia is, like, not being nice to be. I don't know what's going on, but something's, like, going on. And then very shortly after that is when the clink-clink happened in front of everyone. But I was very taken by surprise with how it went down, for sure. You, we see during the show that the two of you kind of walk off. And you're telling Dale at that moment, I don't want to talk about it here. I don't want to talk about this here. I think from a fan standpoint, we're watching it being like, well, guilty as charge, she doesn't want to talk about it on camera.

If you weren't guilty, she would be talking about it right here. What was your intention with telling Dale at that time, hey, I don't want to talk about it right now? I think that's a totally fair judgment, but unfortunately, like, unless you're in this space, you'll, it's hard to understand. I've had many rounds within this franchise, or at least in a setting where you can be really vulnerable. And in that moment, I just felt like nobody deserved any kind of explanation or any more words that could potentially be twisted because that's what I just witnessed. And the only person who I would be willing to have a conversation with in private would be Dale because he's the only one that deserves that.

And I just didn't feel like I owed anything to anyone. Plus, I was really, really emotionally charged. So the last thing I wanted was to say something that could be misunderstood or if I would say something that wasn't articulated appropriately. Like, this is something I really cared about, and I just wanted it to have the attention that it deserved. And it was not going to be in that space or at that time. Don't let biased algorithms or degree screens,

or exclusive professional networks, or stereotypes. Don't let anything keep you from discovering the half of the workforce who are stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time to tear the paper ceiling and see the stars beyond it. Find out how you can make stars part of your talent strategy at tear the paper sealing.org. Brought to you by opportunity at work and the ad council. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship.

I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten, Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them.

Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, The U.S. Open is here. And on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history. The predictions will we see a first time winner and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know. Plus, the stories and events off the court and of course the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fancy, wonderfully experiential sporting event. I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not.

Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wildcard bids or the young Canadian Victoria Mboko making a name for herself? How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form? To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production in partnership with deep blue sports and entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Valicia Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down why it was so important for you to do C. You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys,

Malicia's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are telling our scientists today, we have disdain for your expertise. And then you have China's an exception saying, actually, we're going to invest a trillion dollars in new science. Yeah, you heard that right.

While the U.S. is cutting billions from science and public health, China is making historic investments. That means here in the U.S., fewer breakthroughs, slower medical advances, and a serious risk of falling behind globally. I don't think anything about that is efficient. I think that it is actually profoundly inefficient. And she would know. Chelsea Clinton is using her expertise in public health to break down what these cuts really mean, and why protecting science isn't just smart policy. It's a necessity.

This week on Dope Labs, we're putting it all under the microscope with Chelsea Clinton, diving into what's at stake for science, medicine, and our future. Listen to Dope Labs on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All these love triangles getting you twisted? Us too. But it's because we have wetsils, pretzels on deck serving up soft, salty, and totally irresistible snacks. From original butter to sinful cinnamon. We've got your cravings covered, fresh baked, hand-rolled, and always hot.

Go online to find your nearest Wetzel's Pretzels, or to order ahead, your Wetzels Paradise awaits at wetzels.com. Tell me if I'm wrong. I don't think you will. But it seemed like really the last two episodes of your experience on the show. we really got to see a dynamic in your relationship where Dale was speaking kind of like he did during the reunion he was whispering in your ear telling you hey take a breath count the 10 calm down that's how he supports you to get a glimpse into where your relationship stands the day how do you

best support him I think that we know each other's triggers in our moments of grounding that is needed like I would say I helped bring him down after a lot of the competitions of us being lost when he was a little hot and heavy and I reminded him like what really matters and when he has a really good way of seeing things more objective and like less emotionally like charged whereas I don't so it's helpful

when we're in like heightened emotional situations where he can like remind me and I'm like really good at receiving that and I respect his opinion and I respect how he sees the world so I also have how to allow that which takes time too like I love to say no before I say yes

but as time has gone on but as time is going on I've learned to trust it more and like know that his intentions are never to like it's to help me right and I think that depending on each other's triggers he can probably test to it more I don't really know but I know that I've seen you get a little worked up and I think that I try my best to just remind you

he doesn't I've had partners that like if I were to ever like snap or like try to bring them back to earth, they get, like, more upset. It actually works with him. Like, he'll, like, he doesn't take offense to it. And he's, I think he also values, in my opinion, too. And, but I've only really had to do that, I think, when it comes to, at least in Paradise was, like, after the competitions when he didn't really like losing that much.

Yeah, but I also think it's, uh, reminding me because I move through things very quickly. Um, one of my greatest gifts is I don't feel like a lot of things affect me and I can move through things and be very, very even keeled. but, you know, some tough moments I can bury those, but also you bury great moments. That's one of your mechanisms, if you will. But Kat definitely, without even saying it or, you know, intentionally doing it,

reminds me a lot about, like, the joy and the excitement of, like, little and small things, or there's something good that happens, and I'm like, oh, it's just part for the course, and I'm moving to the next thing. She's like, no, you need to celebrate those things. And I think one of the things that we both talk about all the time and she would say, because we couldn't be public, is like, I can't wait to experience life with you.

I can't wait until we experience these things together. And that's why it came on Paradise. So, and that's been a tough thing for us because. What do you mean that's why you came on Paradise? In a lot of relationships previously, our lives were so segmented. um you know some because of distance and just timing and the pandemic and all these things but i always felt like i poured out so much into relationships um and i didn't always get uh the reciprocity and it wasn't about like tip for tat it was just like i didn't get experience as much as i would like to with

my partner um and i think really just the excitement and the opportunity to like experience new things together um we've already got plans for for so many things there's a lot of things that have happened um that we couldn't experience together but there was still the excitement of like when we can or like i can't wait to show you this thing and i haven't been able to do that for the last five six years you know um and that's what matters to me like my relationship my family

career is like something that's important but that's for stability and security I think I remember him to I think remind him to laugh a little bit more yeah and be a little bit more goofy you had a little spice too it seems like like I do you know Dale seems very much like let's just keep

going and you like shake it up a little bit which is a very good thing to have when Dalai comes out there I do say I wish I could be more unbothered but it's just not in this lifetime. It's not who you are. I have a few more gray hairs, can you feel? I know.

It's going to make life fun. I know. Unfortunately, though, your experience, and I got a lot of clarity, I think, during the reunion episode into this whole texting thing that happened. Dale, you seem thrown off, honestly, watching the show because you were like,

no, I don't care what happened before this. And they said, no, it happened now. And all of a sudden, you took a sip of your drink. You're like, oh, well, all right. All right. get that one out. But you said something, Dale, during the reunion that people can listen to, but I want to bring it up here. You said, hey, that happened at the beginning. This is where we're at now. We're moving into life together now. For listeners of this show that maybe won't

tune into the reunion, but I encourage you to do, it's only going to be on the Bachelor Happy Hour podcast. Give us insight into why that moment didn't break you. I mean, you go through an experience in a journey with someone for a month. We all have these ideas of what we want and how things are going to go coming in. And the moment I met Kat, I was unsure about Kat and I. But we grew that, we grew that, we grew that. We had our guards up.

But anything that was like happening or lingering before the show or whatever, it was kind of irrelevant to me because I was so clear at a certain point when we crossed that path and where we were at and we really both said like, hey, we're going to do this thing. There was no question. And I've told Kat this many times and I said it on the show. If it wasn't Kat, there was no one else for me on that beach. And it was less about the people coming in. It was more about us getting tighter together and me letting my guard down and her also letting her guard down and building that trust

and that understanding that like push come to shove we're going to be there and at the end of the day too like there's so many more difficult things in life so if that was something that we had to get over and get past that happened before I even knew cat at all like it's not that deep like I could totally do that and we had the time to do that after the the fact we did those things we asked those questions um so i don't know like i think it also shows i think it's a testimony to his procurement with himself too and i think the goal at the time was maybe to break him and i definitely know partners that i've ended that that would hold a lot more precedent than the person that's standing in front of him which is me and what we've built and

i think it takes a certain person to feel confident who they are and what the relationship has built to keep that between us and work through what we need to and see if not it can be something we can. Yeah, because people were like, oh, we just want to look out for you. We care for you. You need to know this. And I even said on the show, I was like, you're not saving me from shit. Like, I made this decision.

This is who I'm standing with. So you're not saving me from anything. Let's just be clear, though, on the timeline. Tell me if I'm wrong. You had emailed somebody that you were seeing before very early on in the show. Once Dale showed up, that stopped. No, I wasn't ever texting or

communicating from the outside world when the show had started. So the show had started, no more communication, Dale comes in, there was no more communication. Yeah, we don't have access to our stuff. Security comes and takes it.

Yeah. I think that was a point that people were confused by. Like, was this happening throughout the season? Right. Was this going on when airing, when you were still dating? But once the show started,

you were done, no more texts. Nothing. I mean, that's, and so the way that I also heard things just get so twisted and construed made me very uncomfortable to ever say anything because I'm like, well, if this is how things are being taken, I'm not going to say anything because the last thing I'm going to have is my words be twisted or anything be taken out of context. Yeah, so you should, I mean, you just didn't want to talk anymore. You want to walk away. Well, it, I had a panic attack. Like, it, I never want to like, like, like my experience from two years to go with Paradise. was still my experience.

It was who I was at the time, but it was really, really difficult. And a lot of that experience came with every single day putting out fires, or trying to at least. And in that moment, I felt all those feelings I'd felt, and that was something I had already, like, moved through. And I just felt really like I was back in an environment where I can't trust myself, I can't trust people around me,

and I'm, like, scared I'm to lose someone I care about. So it went on a lot longer than it was shown. It went on for a very long time. And then to the point where, like, I couldn't say words and I had, like, a full panic attack. So that's why I had to walk off. And I can relate to that, too, because, like, I had a moment also where I had to step away. And it had nothing to do with the situation, like, with Kat personally. But I was like, what is going on?

I am in, like, this chaos. Like, I didn't do anything wrong. Like, I don't want, I don't want this. to be our story because this is not right. It was about like, this is not right. And, you know, the producer saw me, like, I was in tears, but it wasn't about hurt. I was so disappointed and frustrated in the situation and how that even happened because, like, what Kat and I had built was so beautiful.

And, like, if there was a stain on it in this way, I was like, that's just not right. Like, this is not, it's, it just, it was like a righteous moment, right? Smokey the Barre. Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful. It's the least that you can do. Yes, it's what you decide. Don't play with matches.

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Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer. Jody Sweeten. Monica Penn. Elaine Welteroff.

I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history, the predictions, well, we see

a first-time winner, and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know. Plus, the stories and events off the court, and of course the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fancy, wonderfully experiential sporting event. I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not. Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wild card bids? Or the young Canadian, Victoria Mboko, making a name for herself. How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form? To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production in partnership with

Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volisha Butterfield, Media Founder, Political Strategist, and Tech Powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down. Why was so important for you to do C?

You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Malicia's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are telling our scientists today, we have disdain for your expertise.

And then you have China as an exception saying, actually, we're going to invest a trillion dollars in new science. Yeah, you heard that right. While the U.S. is cutting billions from science and public health, China is making historic investments. That means here in the U.S., fewer breakthroughs, slower medical advances, and a serious risk of falling behind globally. I don't think anything about that is efficient. I think that it is actually profoundly inefficient. And she would know. Chelsea Clinton is using her expertise in public health to break down what these cuts really mean,

and why protecting science isn't just smart policy. It's a necessity. This week on Dope Labs, we're putting it all under the microscope with Chelsea Clinton, diving into what's at stake for science, medicine, and our future. Listen to Dope Labs on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. With Pinkberry, it is love at first swirl. Big thanks to Pinkberry, who has been serving up some delicious frozen yogurt treats today, where every flavor, whether it's original tart, pomegranate, or their nests.

new white mocha is truly is a frontrunner and the only drama is choosing between your favorite premium toppings whether you're here for love or let's be real just the froyo pinkberry's got your happily ever after find a location near you or order online at pinkberry dot com is there a moment though where that hit for you because watching the season back, it felt like all of a sudden you guys were a serious couple. Like, you know, there was the start that obviously had its stuff going on. And then we had like a couple episodes that were just kind of felt like we didn't see you all on the show much.

And then all of a sudden you're like a serious couple. Is there a moment that you remember, like, where you felt like you crossed that bridge and all of a sudden said, no, this is somebody I'm going to fight for. This is somebody that I'm going to get angry for. And this is somebody I'm going to trust and try to move past this whole experience with. I mean, I think that was the whole time. We just didn't have some of those situations. I think where Kat and I really crossed that bridge was after,

I'll say from what people saw on the show, like the conversation with Alicia, she knew where my rose was going. Alicia knew, you know, I told her. And that was the moment where it's like literally, because we would have these conversations about if someone comes in. And for me, too, I am someone who wants to be prudent

and make the right choice and in some relationships in the past I gave so much and it didn't work out which is fine because you try hard you die hard but that's how you get the greatest gifts but I didn't want to do that again so I was very hesitant

like I just needed to know this is who I'm rocking to ride with and I had to also look at myself and say like all these people are coming in and everything brings me closer to cat it's not about anyone else that's coming in cat and i got to get right and i think also in our conversation i was pretty direct and stern like i was just like look i just need more like whatever history whatever pass whatever it is i want to know that like i'm not going to judge you i'm not going to press on like that's the most beautiful

thing about you and i think that was the moment where we both not speaking and you can yeah well it was the night of the row ceremony before it turned to a competition I can say for the exact moment um because i remember everything uh i mean my feelings for him are always developing but i was also very guarded because i had a failed engagement you know this is like a scary environment to be in and i was just always fearful that someone wasn't who they said they were so i think that translated with maybe a little bit more hesitation emotionally and sharing who i am but you're able to grow really fast in paradise. So we got to the point where he was like basically asking for more and I gave it to him and I gave him a look and to my like personal life, my past, my childhood, things that I

typically only share with people that I care about. And I think my ability to be vulnerable allowed him to also kind of like let his shoulders down and relax a little bit. And from there, it just happened to turn to a competition that night where no one else is coming in. So it was perfect for me. I didn't have to worry about anything anymore. But I think that in that night, we were like, okay, like, you, we've done the thing. It keeps bringing us closer. Like, actually, let's focus on our relationship. And so that was before it even turned into a competition.

It was early on. Yeah. And they kind of cut around that up, that thing, which I'm not, like, upset about because I did get really deep about my life. But I think that was probably our biggest turning point. And then also when he, when I fully crashed out and it did not scare him, did that really help me that I was like

in real time it was so much more intense it was bad it was bad oh it was 10 times more intense it was way longer I was like and you just stayed steady there was holding shivering oh no no no he was like

trying so much to help me and I kept like trying to help him while being helped and then like every time he'd help me I would like go into like a fire ant pile or like lose it again and like it was bad but it got to the point where I was like crying and upset, but I finally got to the point where I had the breakdown. I don't want to skip over the fire ants.

I hate fire ants. It was insane. Those existed on there. It's a problem. You see me itching my ankle. I've never seen someone in my life frozen and like petrified in fear to where they couldn't move. Yeah, I think you saw a glimpse of it, but legitimately, like, I thought they were going to have to call the paramedics or like they, like, the doctors are she's going to have to come in. She was like, I was thinking.

about taking you out. They were about to take her out of there. It got bad. It was intense. You guys, I mean, you did. I mean, I think you've, you've hinted at it so many times that, you know, you were tested and tried and you came out of this thing together. And I want to close with, you know, the excitement that is your future. But I do have two little side questions here that people wrote into us. Sure. And then I also want to touch on the one because I do think it's a point of clarity that all of us need mostly for your benefit. Sure. cat um this friendship was Sean yeah uh it did you know it was communicated to us as viewers and i'm watching it being like i don't know these two people they could have been best friends outside

of this right um that you two were really close friends and then all of a sudden it felt like you turned on him and he turned on you and it got really ugly quick can you give us clarity into where your friendship actually was was yeah was Sean entering into this season i never want to speak for someone else's experience or how they interpreted a friendship right but i will just tell matter of fact we were friends right after the original paradise we would talk a little bit kind of like get boy advice about john henry at the time and vice versa we just had that common ground of tampa i moved to san diego very shortly after which has now been almost two years since i moved to san diego since then it's we did not text every day we did not phone call every

month i hit him up when i was home and i was like hey like you should meet my new boyfriend this was like last year at some point we're in town whatever and that's when he had met my ex and then that was in like October and then in December when I was home for the holidays I happened to see him at a bar that was the time that I'd seen him too but we did not communicate I don't even think I replied to his Instagram stories

or anything like that when I got my first phone call for Paradise I called him and I said are you going to Paradise like they're calling people he's like no they haven't called me yet and I was like call them tell them you want to go so that I'm not on the beach without anyone because I didn't know anybody and kind of here and there we'd like text

or something like before it would come and then I think like maybe right before Paradis started we had like a long phone call and just like kind of talked about who were interested in and stuff like that but that's kind of where that friendship like tangibly was communication wise but I do think that he felt and I did too like a sense of like connection in an environment where we both didn't really know anyone so that's where that loyalty I think felt but as far as like I still didn't really I didn't know him as much or deep anymore so when he was moving in the way he was I was like well maybe this is who he is I'm a different person than I was two years ago maybe this is who he is and I don't really want to

be associated with that and that was something I was very clear and honest about but um he's only met my ex twice so they're not like BFS and both times were with me so it was confusing but I also don't want to invalidate like how he saw our friendship but at the same time like I just didn't think that have friends that I'm much closer with and I'm on the same time zone as and like talk much more often so well thanks for that's pretty I don't know if that's like makes sense but it makes sense that's that's like that's the truth that's like a matter's not just like a good yeah yeah probably the most irrelevant question if you transition into your relationship and where it's going with cap is you have been rumored to be the next bachelor or in the running to be

the next that's so funny um it's been something we've talked about here at the almost famous podcast it feels like for months really um you've had had to see the rumors. Maybe you're in Paradise at the time. If they called you to ask you to be The Bachelor, would you see me saying yes or no? I'm committed. Can I join? She's like, oh, they're doing this.

That sounds fun. That was never something like that was in the cards or like even my mindset. I'm just focused on this right here. That's literally my only focus. What is the focus? Like we're explained to everybody where you're at, what's exciting, what's next. I can't wait to walk on the beach tomorrow for the first time. A lot of it is experiencing life together because, you know, our worlds are, we have a lot of similarities, but our worlds are a lot different.

And I think that crossover and understanding each side of the fence is so, so important. And again, I'll say that's a big thing for me too, because I hadn't always had that, like in previous relationships where there was much time with family or meeting a lot of my friends. friends. I travel a lot. You know, that's something that I've always cut down because of a relationship when the time is right. A lot more has existed because we couldn't even be public. But we just want to build this as strong as possible. I think we've had all the conversations. We know where we're at in life right now. We're not just dating just for companionship. Like I'm looking for a partnership. We talk about what we want with kids, with life, with locations, even though we're on different side of the coast.

Like, you know, it's a real thing. But, you know, I'd say we're fortunate from the standpoint that, um... You bridge the gap. And we understand, like, and we're open to... It's not about, like, just one side or this or that. Like, these are the things that if we're going to come together and we're going to do this right, how do we do this? there's give and take.

Compromise, yeah. I mean, he has the ability to kind of move a little bit freely when it comes to work. I work a steady like Monday through Thursday, but now that we can actually do things together and he does do traveling for work, I don't know, I'm going to just come on his trips with him and join him in on it. And during that we're still building, like it's still been around four to five, like we're only at four months, right? So now we get to go to that next phase of relationship where we can really build and

see where it goes, but us just having that like, same goal to bring us closer and bridge that gap is what is really, I think, needed and just keep checking in and making sure that we're doing that. Like you said, you get to walk on the beach tomorrow together. That's a big deal. It's a big deal. He wouldn't even come in to get to go food with me. Like, we would order food and he, like, wouldn't even come into the gas station with me.

Like, he was so serious about the rules. So I'm, no, I know. But I'm so excited to just, like, be like, this is my man. And, like, we're walking on the beach and, like, having a morning coffee. Like I'm just so excited to live life And we have both looked forward to that You know we're sending pictures to each other all the time And like

There's a lot of things that we would have done together That would have been fucking Ten times better together That we just simply couldn't do But that's not going to change And the simple things are the best things though Today We're closing this thing out

You're getting ready to walk off the stage You no longer have to hide Dale and Kat Thank you for joining us Thank you for it explaining all the stuff that was questions and up in the air from a viewer's standpoint. Thanks for sitting with us today. It's been a long day of talking about a lot of stuff.

I love hearing him talking about how much he likes me. Keep it up. But now you're done. Go enjoy it. Celebrate, walk on the beach. Thanks for joining the Almost Famous podcast. Rosey, All day. All day.

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