The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Taylor Frankie Paul Says It’s The End Of The World

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

Ben and Ashley are recapping Bachelorette Taylor Frankie Paul’s Good Morning America interview, which left them with more questions than answers. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the recent uptick in F-1 romance novels and plenty of mishap scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn.

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In the middle of the night, Saska awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home.

That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the best. Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcast with IHartRadio. It's the Almost Famous Podcast, and we're continuing to be your place to go to, to get all the breaking news on your upcoming Bachelorette, Taylor Frankie Paul. As we get closer and closer to her season premiering this weekend, we do have some things we want to discuss.

We need to discuss. This morning, Taylor made an appearance on Good Morning America after attending a media dinner last night. We're going to cover her. her GMA segment from this morning. But first off, what were you expecting when she announced that they were going to air a segment with her on GMA? And what did you think of her segment once you saw it? Please leave your comments below.

We had a big day yesterday, Heather. You were on air all day and also on the computer and the cell phone finding every. headline and every source we could to try to piece together what exactly is happening in this in this moment and what exactly this news of the camera shutting down on secret lives of Mormon wives means there's a lot of allegations out there I can't say that we have a lot of clarity and Heather let's start by saying GMA gave me less clarity I would have to agree with that I was actually not expecting a segment. I was expecting a sit-down interview. I was expecting, teasing probably all morning. We'll be having the exclusive with Taylor, Frankie Paul.

Blinking, you miss it. That was real, real quick to get her in and out. I'm trying to make sense of all of this. Domestic violence is obviously a massive issue. It is a massive problem. But these are still, we don't even know exactly the details of what happened. Like, we don't don't know anything. So we're piecing together from sources. And again, we're bringing in allegations that have yet to be proven true. But yet something's happened. That's obvious because she went on GMA. So that happened. And the camera shut down at Secret Lives and Mormon Lives. So we're basing everything off of that. This GMA segment felt, I mean, one, what they do? Flyer in yesterday, say, hey, tomorrow, you're going to jump on?

on air and it was, I would say, like, pointless to me. It just didn't mean anything. She seemed unprepared to me. Is that how you felt watching it? Unprepared and probably told, it seemed like she was told, hey, don't really say anything. Uh, speak about your emotion. So she says it's a heavy time. I can't disagree with that. But there was no, like, digging into the details. There was a lot of kind of umbrella speak, as I would call it, just glazing over things. And it makes sense. You call it umbrella speak? I call it word salad. Word salad. And again, no matter what happened here, I get that. But why have her on if you know that's going to be the outcome? I agree. I was expecting more. I was expecting also maybe some sign of

emotion, something a little choked up, maybe a little bit of a tear. And we didn't get that either. She seemed perplexed by the first couple of questions. And basically, Laura Spencer starts by giving her the opportunity to speak about the domestic violence headlines, which I had a feeling she wasn't going to say much in regards to that. Well, nor should she because, right, it's still, I don't even know if it's under investigation. It's ongoing. It's ongoing. So there's very little she could say in general.

She did make this comment, Heather, and I want to dig into it a little bit. On the vial files, they had two guests on about nine months ago. They've re-shared this. And the guests claim that Dakota sabotages these big moments for Taylor. Yes. We don't know if that's true or not. But this is what the two guests on the vial files was sharing. And then Taylor yesterday and her interview shared that it's unfortunate that this premiere, something exciting for her now is kind of a heavy time.

It kind of feels like if you read through the lines, those three Taylor and the two guests on the Vial Files are trying to say something without actually saying it. I would say that there could be truth to that, but I have to keep going back to the fact that this happened three weeks ago. Yeah, it's not recent. It didn't happen two days ago right before your premiere. It happened three weeks ago, whatever this situation was, and it's been being kept under wraps. Now, is that close to your premiere and has the chance to ruin your premiere? Absolutely. But it doesn't feel, it feels like when somebody says that it's coming across is like they're doing this because of my premiere.

Again, we don't know. We don't know what the inner workings of her relationship is with Dakota and if this is calculated. But we do know that the cops were called. Like there's that there's proof of that. Hey guys. Jumping in here. So sorry. My phone was on silent and I lost track of time.

I was just thinking, you know, I was just like in deep thought and I lost track of time about this interview because I found it to be the strangest thing. I'm assuming you guys have already broached that. We said a whole lot of nothing was said up top. And word salad is what I used. Ben said umbrella. Something. Umbrella. Is that like a whole lot of nothing is what we meant.

But I'm interested to hear what you think, Ashley, about, you know, let's jump into the part where they said that they reached out to Dakota for a response. the look on her face was extremely shocked when they said that. This is obviously one of those interviews where it's within the network. It was set up for a reason. This is like a PR move. This isn't like going to be some sort of, you know, political type of interview. Like she should be knowing exactly what's coming at her. She didn't know that was coming at her.

Laura just threw that at her. She felt very ill prepared for this. just the look on her face and how she was searching for answers as she was speaking. That's what I think when you know it's a word salad is when somebody is talking, talking, talking, hoping that the answer will find them as they're speaking. That's what I think we were experiencing as viewers today. But, okay, so the question is, how did this, the inner workings at ABC network together here to prepare her for this interview? Don't you feel like it was almost like Good Morning America wanted to catch her in awkwardness?

I think they were soft just in general. I thought that they were soft. I would love to hear from Ben as a lead as to the amount of media training that the lead typically goes through because I'm going to take a gander here and say that she's not even gone through a fraction of that. The media training was light. to say say it nicely I mean there was some helpful things

they would ask you the most intense questions in a group of people and give you no reaction and just kind of criticize your responses there was also moments where I felt like they didn't want you prepared

and I honestly kind of enjoyed those more you know when it came down to the like finale for me they didn't want me prepared They wanted me thrown off. They wanted me to have to respond. Just from a fan perspective, I want her authentic in her response. I don't want her prepared. I don't want her to be coached up on what to say and not to say.

If these allegations are true, no matter what happens with the show, I want to know what she thinks about it, what she feels about it, what she is doing. about it, what she thinks about, you know, the relationship with Dakota. She said even in this interview that there was a toxicity in Utah. I'm assuming when she says that, that means not only kind of a peer group, but also a past relationship that continues to bring out something negative in her, even if there is an attraction there and a connection there, it doesn't bring out the best of her. I want to hear what she says about that. I think this interview, I don't know, I'm not a PR expert. I think they were going to get criticized either way.

But I do think it goes better for everybody if we watch it and say, yes. Okay, I might not agree. But at least I know where you're at. I watch this. I said I have less of an idea of where she's at. As somebody who watched her for multiple seasons, this was not authentic Taylor. She was trying to be very careful, which is usually not trying to be careful. Now, when I'm watching this, I think.

think, oh, wow, she seems very guilty because she's not denying it. But then my thought is, oh, is this a legality thing? She literally can't say anything. She for sure can't say anything because if this moves forward, right, anything that she has said in the press will be used against her. So what if this ends up moving forward into something more serious than what we know? So of course, I didn't expect her to say details about that. I think. for me, I was expecting emotion. I was expecting I'm a flawed person. I'm still

learning. Bachelor Nation, please give me a chance. Like, that's the kind of stuff I was expecting to hear today. Yeah. I feel like she's just trying to tip to the line of like she doesn't want to sound guilty, so she doesn't want to show too much emotion. The station that says, bold, vibrant, and diverse as you are.

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Pride. Let's go. With IHart Pride Canada. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini-driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic, Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleep. in different rooms, on different houses, and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast, starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, He's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays

on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final Rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He Said She Said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formerly participated in a Formula One race, weekend in over a decade. Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age. What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wagageddon change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory.

I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport. In each episode, a different guests and I will go deeper into the wacky mishap, scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A few key points from this interview that stood out. Taylor did have a few quotes. I want to just kind of give through the topics if you didn't get to watch it.

Taylor's quoted by saying, I'm a person that will always speak my truth, and that's what I'm known for. And she says she'll do that when the time is right. That makes sense based on everything we're saying. Laura Spencer, who conducted the interview, said that they reached out to Dakota, but did not get a response to him. I'm not shocked. The final really standout quote, Taylor responds to one of Laura's questions about what she

envisions for the future of the show. And she said, it's hard to say now just because you know everything going on. It's hard to see past this. I'm not going to lie. In this moment, it's just so heavy. When your life has broadcasted out there in these headlines, it's like the end of the world. I thought that was for me the most. genuine moment of this interview. I'm not saying Taylor's not genuine. If there's one word to describe,

if there's multiple ways to describe Taylor Frankie Paul, but one of them is genuine. I mean, it might not always be a genuine this year like, yes, that's what I would say and do. But she's always been very vulnerable to her fans, to the show. She's put her life out there. So her saying, in this moment, it feels like the end of the world, goes back to our conversation yesterday. Was, yeah, I'm not shocked that it is. And I, and honestly, I feel for you in that. But yet, you can, you did an interview this morning and you did a press dinner last night.

Like, it's just making things worse. Like, if it feels like the end of the world and yet you're getting thrown out there to the Oscars and a press dinner. And then on GMA the next day, every day is going to have a reminder of what bad is happening, which leaves no time for the healing or the reflection or the deep breast to say, wow, like, things have gotten out of control for me. No, you're so busy, you're flying across country every day. Yeah, those are really good points.

Really have to worry about our mental health right now. It's like kind of scary. She says it's the end of the world. I don't know. I'm having a hard time process. seeing, like obviously here we've broken down Taylor Frankie Paul every Friday. And I said it last Frankie Friday. I said, I'm really starting to understand why Taylor Frankie Paul is the lead of the show. Like, I'm starting to see that picture. She's, she's vulnerable. She speaks her mind.

She is not afraid to share what she's thinking at any given moment. She's a leader. I still agree with all those things. I'm not backtracking on that statement. I started to see it. But I'm also now seeing another side where I'm like, was she, is this good for her? No, it's definitely not good for her. I think we're all in agreement.

It's not right now. She really needs, I think, some serious help. Beyond whatever she's been doing, I believe she has been doing therapy and she's been open. But I think she needs something more intensive. Like this is too much pressure. And you've seen.

said it so many times, Ben, she's crying for help and I'm concerned that nobody's listening around her. It feels like she's on Instagram being like, hey, I need a break. And the show is saying, hey, come to this next event. Yeah, this was too much for really like any person to take on. How are you supposed to have two shows? Two shows, three kids. Three kids. And I think, guys, that she might have been filming both at the same time. for a period of time because in this recent season of secret lives, the girls that were doing dancing with the stars, they still made them film Secret Lives at the same time.

Oh, yeah. I think she was having to do this Bachelorette and Secret Lives at the same time. She just had no breaks. But here's the other side of this. And I don't mean this to like keep us safe. I just mean it's still, I mean, it's still allegations. It still doesn't excuse domestic violence. Of course.

Of course. But again, we don't know the details yet enough to make a strong statement on that. But just because you're tired and just because you're busy does not excuse the actions and behaviors that would lead to what allegedly is a domestic violence issue. So that still has to be noted. That I cannot, you know, make sense ever make an excuse for. I think we're all talking from a level of, hey, maybe this, like, maybe the signs were on the wall that something wasn't right. Now, again, we haven't really been able to take a firm stance yet on what exactly happened between her and Dakota. And there's a reason for that.

There's not a lot of information out there. There's some headlines. There's some articles with some alleged, like, but even those articles from trusted sources are different. They're saying different things with different things happening. We can't make a statement on that yet. I think the last few days have been making statements on, hey, maybe we should have saw this coming. Like, not domestic violence,

but something bad happening, something that would be a pivot point for the show, something that would cause Taylor, Frankie Paul to have to go on GMA to make a statement. Like, maybe we should have paid attention to that. And then as obviously more information comes out, we can speak to exactly why. happened that in that altercation if there was one again we don't even really know if there was one

taylor didn't say it this morning we know there was something she definitely keeps alluding to it as headlines not as anything else like or like you know relationship situations or anything just headlines which is a tactic and then um did we talk about the fact that laura called her out about being a producer on Mormon wives which was no but i'm gonna let you guys continue from here I do have a call with a source that I got to jump on right now. So I'm going to jump. You guys take it over from here. And I'm sure we'll be back in the next day or so, maybe even today.

Who knows? Sharing any new information that comes out. Thanks, Ben. We did not get to that yet, Ashley. But honestly, that was the point where I went. I went. Like, I had to like laugh for a second because it's like that should have been a straightforward answer. What she said was correct.

like that she said that the shutdown had nothing to do with her. She didn't make the decision, but her actions did. But her actions did. So she needed to say, first of all, the way she was asked, did you know that we heard productions been shut down? And she said something like, oh, yeah, I heard that. She should have been a straightforward answer of yes, it is currently shut down. Because the follow-up question of, aren't you an executive producer,

made her look really stupid. I know. response answer to that saying, saying, oh yeah, I heard that this season. That's a lie. I will just say that that is a false. What do you mean? Oh, yeah, this season what? When she said, oh, yeah. Oh, she found out about her being like an honorary producer. That is not how things work. Yeah. That is a huge contract negotiation. And again, I was like, you're answering this wrong. Just be like, you are correct. I am an executive producer on the show, but I don't have anything to do with the production schedule of the show.

Like, the way she responded to that was wrong, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Oh. And this was a demonstration to me that it was, and I'll appreciate this. I appreciate that it was like an actual news segment and not just a PR moment. to try to straighten things out. Laura was like, I'm actually going to ask her a hard question right now. I thought I was expecting longer. First of all, I was not expecting. Oh, yeah. I was expecting

maybe top of the show a little bit, end of the show, maybe another, you know, clip of the sit down interview. I was expecting longer content. And I was expecting to see a range of emotions. And you don't have to have the emotion when, you're talking about the questionable act that we can't go into detail on. But when she said, my kids are my everything, that would have been an opportune time to show some sort of emotion. I think she was very much trying to keep it together because I think authentic Raw Taylor would have shown emotion because she can't hold that back in her day to date. So, I mean, neither of us know what it would be like to be in this kind of situation. We've never had, you know, this amount of eyes and this amount of media attention in our lives. But it wasn't what I was expecting.

I know. Me neither. It's just getting to a very weird spot. Like, this was supposed to heal things. And I don't think it did a thing. I don't think it did a thing either. I also not that it was supposed to heal things. You guys know what I mean when I say that.

Like it was supposed to make people feel some sort of way about her season airing on Sunday. And I think that if anything, I think it did nothing. It did nothing because even saying, you know what, these headlines have made me realize that I need to. After this week of me doing this press tour even, I need. I need to go retreat for a while. I need to take a break. I need to be a present mom. If she had said things like that,

I think people would have been like, you go, girl, you're prioritizing what needs to be done. But instead, it was like, make sure to tune into my season. Oh, yeah, and we have an exclusive clip, which that clip didn't give anything. With the station that says, bold, vibrant, and diverse as you are, I heart pride, Canada.

From dance anthems to pop icons and hits from 2SLGBTQ plus Canadian artists. It's the soundtrack that keeps life loud and proud. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHeartPrike Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at IHartRadio.ca. Come together, celebrate love. Pride. Pride. With IHart Pride Canada.

Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about a astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic, Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional.

approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saska awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.

What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. to keep this secret for so many years. He's like a seasoned pro.

This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people. Your creditor might go up and good. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom,

with Clayton at the center of a very strange patronage. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?

Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age? What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wagageddon change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on No Grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport.

In each episode, a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishap, scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't know if you talked about this with Ben, but I know she said this last night or something along the lines at her press dinner,

and then she did it again here, and I thought it was the weirdest statement to be like, these headlines are making me, making, or ruining my week that's supposed to be celebratory. And I'm like, what? Yeah. Like it's ruining your week. Because it's, it's what Ben was saying,

it's that somebody had said on the vial files about that decode. Sabotages her moments. And so I think that's what she's implying. But where I come back on that is that this happened three weeks ago, whatever this thing was. It didn't happen this week, the week of your premiere. Is she trying to say that he's putting this out now? Yes.

Intentionally. When you say these headlines are ruining and I can't enjoy another premiere, it's making it sound like it's a calculated move. And who knows? Maybe that's true. Maybe there's some truth to that. I would also say that the reason why it's happening now is because somebody up top orchestrated this to drop on Sunday.

Somebody at top of, you know that we talked about this in the last episode, but somebody at the top of what? Like certainly not ABC. At the network. There's no way that the network did not know when that situation happened because it affected immediately filming of secret lives, which then caused them to go down. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So the network has known this for three weeks. Why Sunday night? Or just after three weeks, like maybe just after. You think that they were really going to try to hide it, hide it, hide it? Or do you think that they should have just come out three weeks ago? I think that the last three weeks have been trying to be.

build a strategy. And I think that the strategy did not work. And I think that we're now in scramble mode. And I think that today and the next 24 hours, I think by Thursday, if nothing has changed in the sense when I say no other sponsors or deals have dropped out by Thursday, they are going to consider this like all good. Okay. Because that's what they're most concerned about. Putting her out there on GMA was really, I think, about saving sponsors. It's not about public opinion.

Public opinion or people tuning in or anything like that. It's about making sure that sponsors don't drop out by her going out there and saying nothing and by her continuing to show up being like, see, I'm an active place. player like I'm not going and hiding because that's that's a problem too right for the show if as much as we think she should be prioritizing her mental health and doing that if they don't have a lead out there pushing the show and showing showing up who do they have to promote it right no one no one yeah but do they really need promotion right now I mean not right now but what about for the rest of the season I don't know I think it'll

to float. I think so, too. I'm honestly at a loss. I really don't. It could have had Jesse out there. I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. But I really don't know what the plan was. I think that's what's confusing is like the interview didn't do a whole lot. And it's just, it's just like, okay, watch my show. And when I when I'm ready to talk about it, I will talk about it. That was the takeaway. I find this honestly fascinating. This is the biggest Bachelor PR crisis we've had since Bachelor in Paradise season four, I think. The Gary thing was kind of weird. The Mel thing was a little weird. I can't think about any. Oh, my God. How am I not forgetting the obvious big Chris Harrison, Rachel Lindsay.

Chris Harrison, Rachel Lindsay with a huge one. That's probably PR crisis number one. That's PR crisis number one, paradise number two. And then Gary Turner. Gary's a nothing. I mean, I don't know. Those murder comments. Well, I mean, that was our last like, what in the F?

But that was when he was post-batchelor, which made a difference. For sure. Post-batchelor, but it did hold the media for an entire week those things, those headlines. So it was a big blitz for sure. Yeah, I'm, you know what? I don't know Chris Harrison, but I'm really. I'm really interested to know what he's thinking right now when all this is playing out. I don't want to speak for him.

No, of course not. But I just, I just truly wonder. It's just like so crazy. Like, how am I involved with this franchise that literally? Like, I love it. Like, I love it, love it, love it. I can't believe how many times I've had to be on this mic debating something that is so controversial about it. What's like, what?

I feel like no other reality show. I mean, there's a huge spotlight on Bachelor versus any other reality show. Huge. I was saying this with Deanna yesterday. I mean, all good things must come to an end at some point. It can't last forever. But, wow, it has gone on for much longer than I think anybody could have ever anticipated. And so, you know, if this ends up being the last season of Bachelorette, let's hope it's a good watch.

And if for some reason we don't see it at all come Sunday, who knows? But I mean, I'm still as much as everything that's going on, I'm still intrigued, even though I feel like I know the ending already, unfortunately, which really... Oh, well, we've had lots of spoilers on that one. I know. Did you guys talk spoilers yesterday on your Ben podcast? Uh, no, but I did see pictures. last night.

Yeah, I saw the pictures. The TikTok that went out on Monday that I said was her going rogue. I think you were correct in that it was actually a PR stunt by the team. Oh, okay. So I believe you were actually correct on that because I had some phone calls last night. And Amy Sugarman was like, no, you're wrong. Amy knows so much. Where's Amy?

I know, sleeping. Okay. All right. Well, this is, again, continuously evolving. So we'll be back with it. And until then, love you. See you next time. I've been Ashley.

Bye. Bye. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi. It's Joe Interesting, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend

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