The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - Texts on the Beach with Dean Unglert

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

We break down all the drama surrounding Blake.  First, what is happening on the beach with Blake and his multiple relationships.  Then, the private text messages that Blake posted between him and Caelynn. We find out where Bachelor Nations stands on was this right or wrong.  Dean Unglert joins Ben as they try to understand every aspect of this heartbreaking drama.Meanwhile, why is Bibiana having such a hard time finding a connection in Paradise?And "Hot Sauce Jane" is here to explain the taco FAIL that she gave John Paul Jones and why he had such an intense reaction! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your... free iHeartRadio app search emergency intercom and listen now i always had to be so good no one could ignore me carve my path with data and drive but some people only see who i am on paper the paper ceiling the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree it's time for skills to speak for themselves find resources for breaking through barriers

at tetherpaperceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on She Pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweetie. Monica Patton. Elaine Welteroth.

Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, Now on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Belisha Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman.

From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Valicia's Journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain. I'm breaking down the players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain,

and IHart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports Network. Let's do this. This is the Ben and Ashley I,

Almost Famous Podcasts with IHartRadio. I have a headache. This is so much is happening right now. It's just too much for me to process. This is the Almost Famous podcast. I'm Ben Higgins, and Ashley is not here. So we're filling her in.

with the one and only, the beautiful, the incredibly interesting, unbelievably hunky, patient, funny, kind, man that I, it really has caught my heart and I for years now. I feel like I don't know my life before him. His name is Dean Ungler. Hey, Dean. What an incredible introduction that was. I'm flattered. I'm blushing right now. Stop.

Okay, keep on. You're not blushing that bad because you just know it's true. You're like, yeah, I know that's how Ben feels. Like, I get it. It's funny. I haven't done this podcast in a long time. So to hear an intro, that's not the help I suck a dating intro. It was a little interesting.

I hope you don't feel out of place here. I feel a little out of place. Dean, I think we just got to jump into it. I mean, we could fill the world in on what you're up to. Maybe that would be a good way to start. Dean, can you give us a little bit of an idea of what you've been up to recently? Been climbing mountains, riding dirt bikes, jumping out of airplanes, just about everything I possibly can do.

But I'm back in L.A. You know, they gave me a call. They said, Ben needed a co-host for this week's episode. And I said, look, no further. I'm your guy. I'm coming right now, a 16-hour drive. I drove straight through the night. Here I am, ready to rock and roll.

Two things. One, Ashley, like, and Eddie is obviously getting married. So, I mean, I know it's crazy, but she chose to focus on the wedding and not do the podcast this week. Second, Dean, why in the world, like, why does a guy like you decide to do this show? You're traveling the world. You're living in a van. you're interesting you're cool you're smart like what are you doing i mean you're climbing mountains and

then going on tv you want me to be honest yeah i want you to be so honest because i know going on tv will allow me to climb more mountains and jump out of more airplanes and go further around the world yeah i get that's that makes sense prolonging my ability to do whatever the hell i want it's fantastic do you go on these like shows i mean when when you start climbing mountains are you at the top being like, I want to continue to do this for the rest of my life. How, how am I going to do that? Or is it, I want to find a partner to do this with. And I think the Bachelor franchise may still be that avenue to do it. And it also allows me to climb mountains. I mean, I'll be perfectly honest with you. I don't think the Bachelor franchise is the right place to be looking

for a person that will want to climb those mountains with me. It seems like the demographic, the average contestant's not really going to be the person that wants to be doing those things. For my personal experience, at least. There's a few outliers, of course. But, you know, I kind I pride myself on being a bit of a black sheep in that sense. Yeah, you are. You're definitely a black sheep in the sense of your adventurous. You're wild. You're outgoing.

You're a Colorado boy at heart. And you know what? You do a pretty darn good job being on the show. The other thing, I don't know if you're going to find climbers and hunter gatherers on the Bachelor franchise. But you will find a lot of drama. Lots of drama. Quite frankly, there's just a lot going on. now like a lot of drama going on lots of paradise news this week and we have some friends that

were involved with it i think we do and i don't know how close you to blake i would i considered him a good friend okay so that's how we're going to start obviously we talked um on the podcast yesterday and uh blake and our good buddies he lives in denver um i don't see him too often uh But when I'm around, we try to do dinner maybe, you know, once a month. Dean, you know Blake, you're familiar with Blake. We can give some insight here. Obviously, Blake Horsman is hitting the news after last night's episode of Paradise, mostly because of this.

We've seen the first two episodes. There's a storyline going on with him and Kalin. Also, there's a couple storylines kind of circle around this idea that stage coach, Blake had slept with Christina and Kalin. And then on the first episode, we see Kaelin admit to a few people that this relationship with Blake was something. I think the words were that he silenced her, told her not to talk about it. And then she was hurt by that showing up the paradise. Well, last night, I don't know, at about seven mountain time, Blake goes to his Instagram to release a message on his feed, speaking to the fact that he's hurt, that he apologizes, that he knows he made a mistake.

and then he released text messages from Kalyn that was a conversation between Kalin and Blake. And I think the purpose of releasing those messages was to highlight that, hey, I didn't silence her. This was a mutual relationship. We both knew what we were getting into. We both tried to work this out. And so here we sit. The text messages are in the open. I want to start, Dean, with getting your input.

I mean, I think I explained that correctly, right? I don't know the whole story here, but is there anything I missed out on? That sounds good to me for the most part. Okay. That works. So we're here sitting here now. The text messages have been released last night. It feels, tell me if I'm wrong, it feels like a big, like this is a bigger deal,

like a big deal. Like these text messages getting released feel to me like heavy for like just awkwardly heavy for some reason. I agree. I think like the things discussed in the text messages were what kind of makes it heavy. You know what I mean? they weren't just like regular text messages and i've got a big issue with the text messages i want to hear why i i respect what he did at first he posted a post uh kind of note slides where

he like had a paragraph explaining himself explaining himself explaining himself he's like i made a mistake going to stage coach and and sleeping with women back to back nights i regret that i'm trying to become a better person because of that i take ownership of my actions that's fine i appreciate him apologizing for something that maybe he's not proud of and taking ownership of that. What really crossed the line for me, and I don't know if you pay really close attention, I say I considered Blake a good friend because he took private text messages between him and another girl who did not consent to him releasing these text messages and blasted them publicly for his 600,000 followers, gets picked up to the news outlets, which then gets blasted out to millions

more. It's, it's like, yes, and I'm not defending Kaylin here. Kaylin made a lot of mistakes. She, she, judging by what we saw on the show, comes across in not the best light. Blake, too. Blake made a lot of mistakes on the show as well. But publishing and publicizing private text messages without the consent of the other person as a public figure is one of the most disgraceful things I think he could possibly do. I think it's almost equivalent to like sharing someone's nudes. And this isn't just like, like I said, this isn't just a. casual conversation. Blake, as it was outlined on the show, Blake and Kalin seemingly or allegedly had a relationship from January until April-ish. That's three months, three, four months. That's a long

time to get to know someone. That's a long time to develop like a rapport with each other. And you have like a way of talking to each other. And then you can go back and screenshot those messages. And to someone that is unfamiliar with that rapport, they're going to look at that and be like, that's weird. That doesn't make sense to me. And then on Blake's side, I'm sorry, I'm I know and I want to give you permission to ramble because I don't know if there's any way I don't think there's any way to process this and as our listeners listen I'm thinking I'm sitting here I'm going hey listeners I think we just off to process this together and so dean I like your rambling continue to ramble here and then I'll try to pick up some questions on the back end to see

if we can make sense at all here's another really really frustrating thing that I thought of actually just was I was walking to studio today while the show was being filmed and And while we watched it back at being aired, it was two people having a conversation. Kaelin expressed her unpleasantness and her displeasure with the situation. Blake sat there in silence and wasn't really able to gather the word to defend himself at the time. That was a conversation between two people, both had the floor at any time they wanted to talk about what they wanted and defend themselves. Remove that and now come to where we were yesterday with Blake advertising and publicizing these messages. is, he then is going back and picking the specific things that he wants to share to prove

his truths and paint the story that he wants to paint. And that's really messed up, in my opinion, where when it's a conversation between two people, he had nothing to say. But when he has the ability to go back and curate exactly what he wants to and paint the picture that he wants to for his audience and his followers and gain the approval of all of these strangers, he's able to pick what he wants to say and share that with the world. And now it's like no matter what Kaylin does next, she's kind of responding to it, which puts her at a disadvantage. So let me play devil's advocate here because I do think there's

one, if I understand why Blake released the messages, I think it's pretty clear. He felt push into a corner. He felt like what was being said on the show was not true to how it went down, that he didn't tell her to be to be quiet, that actually the text message just speak to them both kind of talking it out and being like let's just be honest if it's brought up um you know wow we've both messed up here but if we're honest about it we're all good we're too consenting adults like those kind of things were said and so i think if i imagine it as i read them last night i was like okay well after reading this it looks like what was said on the show isn't exactly true that blake did not silence calen right but how i guess is that your take coming out of it also is that whatever was said

that he maybe couldn't put the thoughts together on the show. But afterwards, as he looks back and he reviews the conversation they had, he goes, oh, wait, no, it is how I remember it. I didn't silence her. Well, it's kind of, I'm in a tricky spot here because I do make an appearance on Bachelor in Paradise this year, right? I haven't made the appearance as far as the audience is concerned. But I was able to speak with both Kalen and Blake during my time on the beach.

And so I have a better understanding of the situation through my own lens, of course. And you know probably better than anyone. well, maybe not in paradise terms, but you're having, let's say there's 20 people in paradise. That means that any time there could be 10 conversations going on during 16 hours a day. And at that point, they're not going to be able to show every facet and alley of the conversation, right? They're going to basically use the parts of the conversation that they want to paint Blake in the way that they want to paint him. And my interpretation of watching it back, understanding what I learned from being on the beach is that they just weren't able to put in

everything that was said between the two of them. And it makes Kalyn look really bad. It makes Blake look really bad. They both look really bad. It's hard to defend either of them in the situation, in my opinion. But I think that there is a lot more to the story that we just necessarily weren't able to see. Yeah.

I mean, those text messages are pretty revealing. The text messages highlight, you know, kind of their plan, what they're going to do when they spend time together. It also talks about how they're going to process through this when they get to. to the show. I actually, and I don't know, maybe Dean tell me if I'm crazy. I read through the text and I don't really have now a problem with how this, I guess, hookup went down. Like they both seem to be consenting to it. They both seem to be processing it fairly well. Like now, what Blake, and I think this is where, after reading through emails, where people are upset,

is Kalin's entering into this relationship with Blake, not knowing that Christina was, I think the night before, the night after, I don't know, the scenario here, like a following day at some level. And that's what people are mostly disgusted by is that it happened back to back. Right. And that neither Kaelin or Christina knew this going into that evening with, with Blake. Right. Is that, am I right? I mean, that's really, I don't think outside of everything else, the hearsay of like, hey, you know, this is how, this is how he told me to be quiet or anything. It's like, hey, you slept with somebody else like right after me. Right. I don't think it's the classiest move by any stretch but also it's not like he was obligated to one person

or the other right he was a single guy like you have to kind in a way you can give him a pass on that because he's just a single guy going about it it turns out that it sounds like he just didn't tell the girls about it until like just before going into paradise which sounds like a calculated move in my opinion and the sharing of those messages specifically the sharing of messages from a girl who you were romantically involved with when she was drunk and horny and then you go ahead and blast those text messages on your social is a very obvious form of slut shaming in a sense

and that's really what's frustrating it's like now Caitlin's parents and her sisters and her friends are going to have to see these messages and again it's no it's not consensual from her part like I'm sure that they talked but like Blake just did it because he wanted to do it He wanted to clear the air for his name, which I get. But there is just better ways to do it than by publicizing private text.

There's a million ways that Blake could have gone about sharing his side of the story. And the worst way of those million is by sharing the text messages, in my opinion. Go to a news outlet. Go on a podcast. Do an interview. Like, go on the corner of the street and just start shouting at the top of your lungs. Don't be sharing private text messages just to swayed your own guilt and your own ego and make people that you'll never meet in your life like you more.

You know what I mean? Like the only reason he's doing that is because he wants strangers to like him more. And he, yeah, I feel very strongly about this because it really frustrates me. He is used to being the most, the beloved one from Becca season. He has all this great experience and all this great exposure from that. And now he's on this show after having slept with two girls pre-show and going on dates with three-plus girls pre-show. He comes into it thinking everything is going to go his way again.

it doesn't go his way and now he's on ice skates going downhill backwards because he doesn't know what to do. And so his first instinct is to blast out all of these private text messages. And that's my big issue with it is there's a million ways to have handled this and he chose the very worst one, in my opinion. You make an interesting correlation between sharing text messages is similar to sharing nudes. Why do you say that? Because you never enter into a text conversation with anyone ever expecting them to screenshot and advertise them. The same way you would never send nudes to us. I mean, I personally don't send or receive nudes, but I would never expect anyone to blast those out anywhere. You know what I mean? It's a private conversation. And now,

like, if you're a girl and you want to date Blake or say you're dating Blake, you kind of in the back of your head, I have to be thinking about, well, shit, this guy's blasted this girl's text messages on his social media before. He might do that same thing to me. And that's funny is I talked to him before he did this. Before he posted the texts, I reached out to him and I said, hey, I hear you're thinking about doing this. I really urge you to reconsider for your own sake. Like, it just is not a good look. We understand, like, you're, you're peeved by the whole situation.

It didn't necessarily go how you wanted it to go. You're catching a lot of heat from it. But this is just not the right move. And he goes, no, I just like, I need to get it out there. I need to get it out there. Like, I don't know what else to do. And, yeah, it just, that, I don't know. It just doesn't sit well with me at all.

We talk about a lot in the podcast. My biggest issue, like my personal, like, one of my biggest issues is that I don't react well to anything. Like my first reaction is typically not the right one, especially when I'm like angry or upset. And it feels like this was a reactionary move that wasn't fully thought through. But no, let me argue that. Let me argue that for a second because it sounds like quite the contrary.

If you look at the comments of the post, you'll see Kevin Wentz posted something saying, hey man, I know you were talking about this last week. And maybe I don't agree with it, but I'm glad you're speaking your truth. So that means that for at least a week he's been considering doing this. And it's, so obviously it's, it's a knee-jerk reaction that he's kind of had for an extended period of time. Like he, in my opinion, is just that desperate to make sure people don't hate him.

Yeah. It sounds like he felt like he's been pushed into a corner, you know, for a week now or however long he's been processing this, found, you know, these text messages held on to him, cheered it with a few friends and his has just held them. Dean, there's a couple ways I want to go here. Why do you think the Kevins of the world and the rest of these friends of Blake feel like it's okay now to comment on this picture? Aren't they friends of it? Like, this is a part I don't understand. If, you know, my friends, and Dean, I consider you a real friend to me, like a real friend.

If you did something stupid in your life, which I would never think you would ever do. Happens often. Yeah, never, never you do. I would never comment on your public photo to let you know how I feel about it. Right. Like that, this is another side of this whole thing that I'm not quite understanding is, are we in a world right now, especially within the franchise, where everything has to be done publicly? Right.

You know, there's a thousand ways to go about it. But as a friend of yours, I would never comment and say, I told you not to do this. That to me would be the anti-friend move. Like, don't now make me look even stupider. Right. It's pretty ridiculous. I guess I don't see the, what's the end game of doing something like that is what you're saying, right? It's like, what does that go? What do you do with that? Right. What do you plan to get out of that? I mean, I don't have an answer for you. I would do the same thing.

I know you'd never do anything stupid, so I guess I don't have to worry about that with you. But neither of us. I know that I know that I can expect when I do something dumb and I advertise it or or I apologize for it. I know I can always expect a private message from you as it should be because if it's a real friend, what they're trying to do is console you. They're not trying to drive more, I guess, traffic to their own name or get more likes or whatever it is for being that public persona on that one issue, I guess, if that makes sense. We had a listener ride in, and a couple people from Bachelor Nation actually commented on this photo.

Kevin was not the only one. Again, it's an anomaly. I don't quite understand. You know, most of us have each other's numbers. If you have an issue, and I know we're using Kevin's name, he was just the first person that was brought up here. I think there's multiple people here that we're going to find out the comment. I don't get it.

I don't understand it. I don't know the endgame to commenting on somebody that you know is already in the public's light. Like this whole thing from the very beginning seems to be a done in the worst of ways. And because a listener wrote in and wanted us to share these, we have one of our producers in studio to read off some of the comments on Blake's picture. I think it's Danielle. Danielle, you're there to read these? I'm passing it off to Tori.

don't worry, go ahead. All right. So Caitlin Bristow actually said, thank you for being vulnerable and honest. Then Adam, who just got engaged to Raven, said, thank you for always being open about this, always two sides to every story. And I know firsthand about how editing and portraying

can make things look. But the Kevin comment was actually, I know I told you last week, posting these might not be the best idea. But as a friend, I want you to be happy. And I know your anxiety was about to erupt. but the most shocking one was Christina who he's in a little bit of a love triangle with

said speak your truth no one can take that away from you which is interesting coming after the episode from last night and she reamed him Ben how do you feel about that? I'm trying to read it my initial reaction is to read it and see who's taking whose side and it doesn't really feel like anybody's taking anyone's side

maybe Christina's taking Blake's side and I guess to finish I still think it's just It's odd. Maybe it's not. Maybe I'm old enough now, Dean, where I don't get the social media world that well. But I don't.

You're the same age as Blake. Oh, well, that's a good point. I just, he looks a lot better than I do, I guess. But I don't understand how these conversations are now public. My mom and I talked about this when I was home, and it was kind of going back. And I do want to correlate this at some point, Dean. And so I want to move into this in a second with the Hannah B situation and the Luke P

kind of conversation during her season where she admitted that she had had sex with somebody in a windmill and America kind of backed her. I do want to try to see where we go with that in a second. But my mom and I were talking about this and we couldn't quite process on today's world. No matter what you believe or you feel is your moral right or whatever, why does it become a social media conversation? Isn't this one to have in front of people as two humans to say, this is how I feel, this is what I think, and this is why I do what I do? It just feels odd to me that these comments are coming on a picture that they know is so sensitive in support or not support.

Well, my thing with the picture specifically, the picture was fine. The static post in his feed I thought was decently written. The issue that I really have is the sharing of the text messages on the story. So I can see the Bristow is reaching out and saying, hey, I support your vulnerability or I'm glad you said this. Because the message that he relayed there was a message of regret, apology, and potential growth. But it wasn't until he shared the text messages that really just kind of took me into overdrive personally and really pissed me off because there's just no place for that. Yeah. Yeah, that's one place I miss.

guess you're right because on the static post it was an apology kind of admitting fault but also saying hey there's two sides every story I'm not the only one involved in this I don't think I'm as guilty as what it's being portrayed as but I'm sorry because what I did was not right and then so the comments are probably based on that post and then the pictures on the text or the text message on the story isn't getting the comments that we're being able to see well and that makes sense I didn't think of that he posts the stories and then a couple hours later he takes the stories down and said oh my gosh I didn't want anyone

to attack Kalyn because of these stories. I'm deleting them now. And that was just like a big slap in the face. Like what you didn't want anyone to attack Kalen. And so you shared private text messages, basically encouraging people to go and attack Kalen. And now you're quote unquote taking the high road. And yeah, I don't know.

I get it. So okay, let's talk through now how this is all looked from every side possible. I want to go to a couple reader email or listener emails I've been saying reader emails recently Hey before we jump into that Ben A good question that both Tori and Danielle brought up Is you see

Obviously Christina on the show as well Kind of like lay Blake down And kind of lay into him a little bit as well But why is Blake not defending himself in that sense Why is Blake not sharing text messages between him and Christina Why is it just Kalin and Blake And now you see Christina commenting on Blake's picture as well supporting him speaking his truth.

Well, I don't know. I mean, I obviously don't know the answer to any of this. My assumption would be I do feel like Kalin's accusations of Blake are a little bit heavier than Christina's. I think for me, the sleeping around thing, people can get over. I think it's the silencing part that when I watched it, I had a problem with when it came to Blake personally. I was like, how would you ever call anybody that you've had an

intimate relationship with and call them and say, you need to stay quiet because this has to go well for me. That's where I had a problem. Like, as any man or woman that feels like that's their right to tell anybody to be quiet based on an action that you both participate in is not a good thing. And so that's why I thought, hey, like, her accusations are pretty serious. That's manipulation. It's odd because even we, we, Ashley and I talked about how we were down in Paradise.

for the wedding, it was still something that, like, felt like it was heavy over the crowd. I mean, I do feel like this is a heavy topic, Dean. Like, I don't think this is like, it's weird to me for the last, probably three seasons of this show, both Bachelor, Bachelorette and now Paradise, there's been topics that's kind of transcended this, like, Bachelor world. I feel like Ari's season had a few things that were, like, that were worthy to talk about. The breakup definitely was one of those that felt, hey, this is crazy. This is wild.

But it wasn't, like, heavy. This stuff feels heavy to me. I don't know why. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to it right now, and I've been out of it for long enough where I'm a little bit disconnected. But it feels heavy. I want to ask,

and I think talking to you has helped me process it. Originally, I didn't understand why Blake was getting so shamed for sleeping with two people. Again, personally, you know, morally, whatever you want to feel, that's up to you. I think there's a right and wrong in my life.

I think there's a right and wrong when it comes to the values and morals that I think are best for us as humans. But again, Dean, you might disagree with me. And with that, I can't change what you think. And there's no really point to me to try to do that outside of just saying, hey, let's have the conversation. And so I was confused on what was different with Hannah B and Blake. Hannah B admitted to sleeping with somebody and then, you know, was willing to become engaged to somebody else. She stood up for herself and said, hey, it's my body. It's my right.

I owe you nothing. And then Blake, I don't know what it looks like if he stood on the beach and he goes, it's my body, it's my right. I owe you nothing.

I don't know how people respond to that. But I was like, I feel like there's parallels probably when it comes to sleeping with multiple people. Again, my issue, though,

was the silencing talk. Right. The silencing talk was it got me. I don't understand where that was coming to something. So based on these text messages that we read, it looks like Blake didn't ask

to silence Kalin. And you were just explaining that she, She felt like a dirty secret. Yeah. But based on the text message, it looked like there was an agreed upon, hey, let's not talk about it until it's brought up. Right.

And what we saw on the show looks like Kaylin was the one that brought it up right away. Is there anything more to that that you can help me process? Because I'm having a hard time understanding still where this silencing idea came from. I think that kind of what I mentioned at the top of the episode is we're seeing the text messages that Blake wants to choose for us to see. We're seeing the hand-picked messages to paint the picture that he wants to paint for us.

We also don't see the phone calls. We don't see 99.9% of their conversations, right? And so we can't sit here and objectively say Blake said this or Blake didn't say this. You kind of have to take Kalen for her word, which at this point is difficult to do because we've seen her kind of go back on her word a little bit, obviously.

If he did end up saying that, that's obviously a very, very horrible thing to say someone, especially, especially coming into a situation like this. It's just like, it's kind of, I don't know, there's so many things, there's so many moving parts to this situation. It absolutely, it's, it's really hard to kind of like process all of it. I have one final question for you, Dean, but before we do that, I want to take a second and talk about some of our sponsors.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency. Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free Iheart radio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot.

is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this.

It's just... I can do my ice close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize

that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. See? Listen to no such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, sis. What if I could promise you

you never had to listen to a condescending finance, bro, tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan,

starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand.

It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's HoneyGerman.

And my podcast, Grasasas Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in like over 25 years.

Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start.

We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing Vibras you've come to expect. And, of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching?

I won't say whitewash, because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasasas Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new Super Secret Bestie is The Diva of the People. The Diva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it.

Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Dean, we're coming back on the episode. We're talking about Blake here. We're just getting ready to kind of finish out this, I'd say, mess, mess of a situation. It feels heavy. It's definitely, you know, polarizing paradise.

One of the other things that we continue to get this week and that we talked about on the podcast of the first episode is why do people choose to have conflict on the show. Yeah. Um, it feels pretty easy to, to just handle this stuff off of the show. You have the numbers. You have the phones. You have texting. But you mean, Christina is an example here.

She comes on to paradise. And it's pretty clear that she comes onto paradise to confront Blake. Um, they're what, three days in a paradise at this point. I mean, I'm assuming she probably was talking to him a week before that or could have. What is the reasoning to conflict and confrontation on national television, instead of offline. I guess you just get more eyeballs on you. Why?

Why is that something we want, Dean? I think Christina, I mean, I'm not going to, you can't speak for Christina, obviously. Christina had a rough go around the first Bachelor in Paradise she was on because of me, right? So now maybe she feels vindicated to come in this time around and be like, look, I'm going to be this stern ass and put men in their place. And so she just kind of came in with this mentality where she's going to kind of take that approach. That's kind of the way that I viewed it.

It was so confusing to me that A. Christina comes in, asks Blake on a date of all people. Blake says yes to the date. Christina then just kind of like lays into Blake the whole time and Blake just can't really seem to muster up any words. Like it was just a whole weird sequence of events that didn't really make much sense to me. I agree with you. Why did Christina and Blake not have this conversation weeks prior to coming into paradise? What's the benefit of having it on the show? Do either of them stand to benefit anything from it?

Like, not really. If Christina is going on the show to find a partner as, you know, you're supposed to be doing on that show, then why is she asking someone that she's already pursued and failed a relationship with? It's something I don't understand, Dean. And so it brings up this. You said it a couple of times. Blake just seems like he has a lack of words right here. Why do you think he is shocked every time a girl says, I liked you?

Like, we've seen this now twice. Christina and Kalina have both said this. I don't think we've seen Hannah G. say it or Tasha say it, but why when it said, is it like completely caught off guard? That's a hard question to answer. Yeah, I don't know if we have an answer. I mean, you don't have to have an answer. I just, it's like something that I noticed.

One thing that makes me think Blake isn't quite as absolved in all of this is his reactions to when Kalin shows up, to when Christina shows up, to his interviews where he's by himself and he's saying, oh man, I got to get out of paradise. I shouldn't be in paradise. That's not the things that an innocent person says. Or that's not the way an innocent person reacts to someone coming into paradise, especially someone that you know is coming into paradise. It just there's so many mystery boxes in this whole situation. Like, why are you reacting this way? Why are you saying these things? And then now why are you saying that you're innocent in all of this? From what we're seeing on the show, which is really what we have to base most of it off of. It doesn't really

appear that way at all. And again, I think it just boils back to him wanting everyone to love him as much as everyone did coming off Becca season. Now he's getting a little bit more hate and he doesn't necessarily know how to handle it. And I even, yeah, I don't know. I tried to prepare him for that, right? Because I went through my own hate of Bachelor in Paradise season four. And it just It's falling on deaf ears. So we're talking here about reactions, and we were saying, hey, why is Blake reacting like he didn't know that these girls liked him? And we don't know if we can even answer that. I don't know if we know enough about it.

But one of our listener emails says this, how was Kaelin supposed to talk to Blake first before anyone else? The email continues, and it says he literally ran from her and hid when she came to the steps. That spoke volumes. Now, I think a little bit of this when it comes to reaction. a lot of the show is something that we um that is real that stuff that happens and some of the reactions i would say are stuff that i don't always read too much into because it's it's clippets it's it's it's bites and you know if a girl walks on the stairs they can get blake you know watching somebody through a football 70 miles with his mouth wide open and that's the the face they

used to win they're walking the stairs is this one of those like do you think he ran from her and hid or I think you just didn't want to talk? It's certainly possible. We've seen it before. I'm sure we see it more frequently than we even realize. Knowing the blueprints and the layout of the beach, the places that he was running to are not places you would go to

for either an interview, to grab a snack, to grab a drink. Those are places that you're going to to remove yourself from the situation solely to be out of the situation. You know what I mean? Well, it brings up the question. then should Blake just remove himself completely?

At this point, should he leave paradise? I mean, we know what he does, but should he? I mean, you've been down there. You know the pressures. You've been in a spot yourself that feels helpless and out of control. Is there ever a thought that says, I just got to get out of here? Well, you see Blake saying that in his interviews. He's like, man, I just got to get out of here.

Is there an option just to get out of there? I think you always have the option. I will say, I tried to get out of there halfway through season four. And they never let, I was like, I'm got to get out of here. And they were like, all right, cool, sit here. And like, six hours later, I was still sitting there. I was like, I guess I'll just stay. Sorry for my language.

So I think like you'd theoretically have the choice to leave if you really wanted to. But I don't think that necessarily, you know, it might have looked worse for him to leave, really. But that goes back to my original point is you wouldn't, an innocent person with nothing to hide, wouldn't be saying things like, I got to get out of here, this place isn't for me. I'm in over my head. Like if you I don't know What do you think I don't know

I've never been to paradise I mean I know the bachelor would be really hard to leave I mean we've seen one try and it didn't go very well I mean the badgeret I don't think I could have ever left I don't know where I would have gone half the time you're in some weird location that you know nobody and you're locked away

I don't know what paradise is like You've seen people leave paradise midway through a couple times I think Christina did it at my season And I think at least every season you have at least like one or two people that bowes out of like a rose ceremony or something. Yeah, you kind of have to wait for the right time. At this point, as I'm watching the show, it's week two. This is obviously not going well at all at this point for Blake. I mean, I bet he feels like he's been hit by a semi-truck.

He went down there thinking this was going to be awesome. It was going to be fun. He was going to have a girl or two that he was going to be interested in. Everybody's going to get along. He's going to be the king of the beach. And three days in, he's like, whoa. boy why do you think he took tasha on that first date i have no clue that's one that's so this is the question i have for you so we see at the end of the episode that hana g kisses blake after and

this is hard for me to watch not for the blake reason really i just really like hana g and dylan and i think dylan seems like a nice guy yeah but she kisses him after she was excited about blake potentially taking her on the first day and said he takes tasha what is there more that he wants to find out about Tasia, is Tasha the kind of the mystery woman to him that he hasn't got to spend a ton of time with. There's obviously, I think, a background with him and Tasha outside of the, outside of paradise. I mean, there's a background with him in Hanna, too.

Right? I don't know if that's been discussed yet, but there's also a background with him and Hannah on the show. So there's a background with Christina, Kailen, Hannah, and Tasia, and he decides to take Tasha on the date. Do we know why? Do we have any insight why? I don't know.

The way I at least perceived it, I don't know if this is confirmed or not, was he knew he liked Hannah. He thought that he could have liked Tasha, and so he took Tasha on a date to see if there was something there. It was a dumb move, in my opinion. If you know you're there for Hannah, then you should probably be taking Hannah on a date. He was just shooting himself in the foot left and right. I don't know. It really is a very confusing situation. I would assume, like, I don't know.

I really have no idea. I'm honestly, I'm surprised at how this is playing out. There just seems to be a lot of things right now that feel like they're going against Blake. And I think some of it almost feels like a lot of them are done by him just making some really weird decisions. Now, to move on past these text messages. Well, how do you feel about the text messages? what I feel like is this is he feels pushed into a corner anytime any person feels pushed into a corner I think we feel like we have to defend and react especially when we feel like we're in the

right I think Blake looked at these text messages didn't realize exactly the weight of them and said this is my proof that I'm not all wrong here and I look at these text messages I read them and if I read the text messages I go yeah you're not all wrong like they they point to you advising and consulting and talking about and having a conversation that releases you from the idea that you silenced Kalen. But I also agree with you in the sense of there's text messages and they're private. But I think it was the only thing he felt like he had to defend himself. If not, he was just going to eat turds for as long as this plays out for. And you know it doesn't last forever. And I think there's a little bit of like he said in his message.

The name's the only thing he has. I think right now he feels like there's no recovering from what's happening. I think there was a way for nobody necessarily to win if we're looking at winning here in this, but to get both stories out. And I think you're right. I think an interview, a podcast, something is a better way to do it. You get to talk it through. But I do think that they, I think the sex texts are very personal.

And I think they're they're tough for me to swallow because you just it's just hard to think that those could be released publicly but at the same time I think Blake just felt pushed into a corner and he reacted

now I don't know necessarily what the like consensus response has been. I don't know if people are in favor of this on their hence team or Kalin's team I imagine it's it's pretty mixed reviews I'm not great in these scenarios because again I just think a phone call would have been better

right like I just think of a conversation way before the show even happens would have been better a joint statement maybe a joint statement something something that clears the air for both it's weird you know what I go to is like what does the future look like now like you're 30 years old and now people are going to know you and this is the hard part

of the show is they're going to know you as the guy that slept around and they're going to know the confrontation as a confrontation that's memorable on paradise right and do you know when ask you I mean you've been in it and so to clear that up I guess my answer is I don't know how I feel quite honestly I don't know what would have been best here I don't know any more or of the story than what I read and saw on Instagram last night. So you in season four had your own controversy. It affected your life. It affected you personally.

I'm sure it felt heavy and it felt like you were in your own corner. During that time, remove yourself from any biased in this scenario. Yeah. What advice would you give somebody to move through and on from this and not letting it affect their life and then does it or does it affect your life and change everything completely? Well, I told you, I think I mentioned earlier was before Paradise began airing, I had a conversation with Blake about what he could expect because the situations are different, but their responses are going to be similar. You know what I mean? And I told him it's going to get a lot worse before it gets a lot better. And I told him that people have a very short memory span, especially when it comes to this, especially on a week by week basis as the season is airing. Yeah, I still have.

I occasionally I'll have someone like mentioned something about my experience on Paradise the first time around, but it's basically non-existent. I think back to my relationships coming out of Bachelor in Paradise, Bachelor Winter Games, going through those breakups. And I'm like, I and this is maybe just the biggest disconnect that I have is I would never imagine sharing personal text messages to vindicate myself during those breakups. I've had my fair share of exes saying things that I didn't like hearing and going through situations where people were saying the wrong things about me to me that my exes have said. It never even crossed my mind to screenshot messages and share them with the world to prove my innocence in that sense. And so now to see someone going to that length, it just is disturbing. I don't think that he really did anything that wrong up until that moment. But like I said, I gave him some advice.

I tried my best. I said, I mean, I could go back through our text messages and kind of remember, but I told him to get a lot worse before it gets a lot better. Don't share the text message between you. Yeah, I won't. And I told him that he just needs to wait it out, man. Like even a month after Paradise is airing. And even just before he posted these text messages the other day, I said, man, just give

it one week. for the next week's two episodes to air and I almost guarantee you no one will be talking about this still and he goes no it's gotta go now it's now or never I gotta do it man and I go you don't have to do anything

you have the ability to wait that's the one thing that's working in your favor right now is you have time the only thing that's pressing you for time is your own like anxiety kind of weighing in on you and you thinking that you have a deadline to get this out to share your truth

wait a week see how it ties over into the next week see if it dissipates it and it's kind of funny looking back now at the advice that I was trying to give him both in releasing these text messages in the week prior before the season even aired because everything I said was just discounted, not listened to, I don't know. It's it's kind of hard to see, but I even have like, I have other friends within the franchise that I know we're talking to him about the messages and all that kind of stuff and telling him not to do it.

Everyone that I've talked to about this that's spoken with him has said they've told him not to do it and yet he still goes and does it. So it's like when you have 90% of 99% of your friends are telling you you shouldn't do something and you go and do it anyways, like where do you see the, I don't know,

the right in that? I remember the feeling when Lauren and I broke up and it went public like the weight of it and like how you felt like the world was against you or for you. Like you felt like there was just so much heavy like attention on your relationship and you wanted to get a statement out there and you wanted to share both sides of the story and people then started to assume things and you know pictures come out and you're they're saying things and you I think with the one advice I would give was you just

almost have to eat turds until it's done like you just have to sit in it sit through it let it settle and then wisdom comes right and peace wisdom comes and so once it's peaceful and it's settled and everything's been played out, then you can respond. And I think that's the one advice I would give. Now, granted, I don't know if I knew that advice back then because all I ever wanted to do was like scream from the rooftops. This is what happened. But my friends and my family consistently, I remember this told me, don't do it. Don't do it. Stop. Don't say a word. And I did it. And I never did. And I'm glad I didn't. Now, this isn't because I did anything right. It was because the friends around me who cared for me, who legitimately, I think, cared for me, said,

Ben, I know this feels like it's going to feel better. And I know this feels like how it's all going to be solved and how everybody's now going to be quiet. But trust me, it's not. Right. Well, that's the difference between you and Blake, it sounds like then, is you listen to the people that cared about to your advice. And on the flip side, he got advice from people he cares about and vice versa and still went against that advice. Hey, I did something right, Dean.

We talked about it earlier. That's, that's cool. I did. I'm proud of this. Thanks, man. Hey, we have to move on here because we do have a special caller who loves hot sauce to like an oddly gross amount. And then we also have to break down the episode real quick. Most of this episode revolved kind of around Blake and Kalin and then Blake's story with Christina.

We do see some relationships forming. We see some love in the air. Hannah G. and Dylan are definitely the ones that America seems to be rooting for right now. We also see Anneli stick up for Angela. We talked about a little bit last week, but it kind of finishes this week. Dean, why does that happening? Like, why does somebody on the outside come in and feel like that is their place? Again, why can't you have these conversations offline? You're saying with Annelese and Clay? Yeah. Maybe they just don't have really the opportunity need to talk about it.

I would assume that Clay and Annalise aren't talking every day or very often, you know, so I don't even think. I'm sure that Annalise probably didn't expect to see Clay in Paradise and vice versa. I do know that the guys are giving out the roses this week, so I can, I can't spoil anything, but that's a tricky situation

because what really bothered me about the Annalise Clay situation is it's not up to Annalise to decide when Clay is ready to move on. Yeah. Annalise was saying you broke up with Angela three months ago, you're not ready to be here. It's not really her place to say when Clay is and isn't ready to move on.

And it sounds like maybe that Paradise was a good opportunity to help him move on. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. I mean, there's obviously backstories still there that we don't see. But Demi is the first to call Annalise out in typical Demi ways. She just goes at it.

And she just says what she thinks. I love that. She goes, so why did you say that to Clay? And Annalise goes, I didn't want to, but I had to. And then he just follows it up by saying, well, why? She's like, she like didn't drop it. Normally people would just be like, oh, okay, but she's stuck with it.

It makes sense. It's like, if you didn't want to do it, why'd you do it? Yeah, like there isn't anything more there. Maybe the biggest story Dean from Paradise and Twitter was blowing up about it. I think it might be that outside of a few of the stories we've already talked about, one of the big things we got to talk about is why does Bibiana continue not to find somebody on Paradise? It's a great question. How does that happen? She's beautiful. She's great. She's a terrific human. She's beautiful. She's sweet. She's cool. We talked about it.

I mean, like, what is going on here? That's a question. I don't think I can really answer. I mean, I don't really know her that well. Obviously, she's very physically attractive. Maybe she just doesn't vibe well with the people down there. Maybe she doesn't put forth quite the effort. It's not her. It's not her arena to operate in. It's tricky to say. I guess I don't really know what her type is. I don't know. Maybe the type that you see on Bachelor in Paradise isn't necessarily who she would go for back in Florida. And so she just doesn't really feel the need or urge to commit to like pursuing a relationship with anyone down there. Maybe she just likes going for a couple

days and she, you know, because she was on Bachelor Winter Games with us actually now that I think of it. Yeah. Yeah, she was. She was great. Yeah, she's fantastic. She was wonderful. We love Bibiana. Speaking of relationships And speaking of Annalise Maybe one of the most awkward moments I've ever seen in Bachelor Paradise And maybe it was just me

The kiss between Chris Bukowski and Annalise felt really awkward Did you notice this? I totally forgot the kiss But yeah, now that I didn't think of it, you're right. They just looked like neither of them really wanted to do it But it felt like, hey, tonight's your road ceremony Like I've got one shot at this.

Like let's make this thing happen Annalise did that with Chris Bukowski I think Kailen did that with Cam I think that Anya did it with John Paul Jones. You see a lot of those like desperation kisses. Oh, wow. You're right. I forgot the Kalin and Cam deal.

Yeah. I think that deserves a little bit more attention, a little bit more scrutiny. What do you think about that, Dean? I think it's hilarious. I mean, it's like, you know, you're either kiss him or you go home in that sense, I think, and all three of those senses. So sometimes you've got to close your eyes and puck her up and hope her the best. Do you think Cam was just like, what do you?

you think Cam was thinking? He probably was on cloud nine. He's over the moon ecstatic. Gosh, that dude, literally. I mean, I bet he literally like was walking on water that night. Oh, absolutely. I'm excited to see their love story unfold, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, where do we go from here, do you think? I think the sky is the limit for them to. They seem like they could be the next power couple coming out of Bachelor in Paradise. Do you think it even last five minutes into the next episode? I hope it does because it's going to be good for the viewers. And honestly, like, that type of funny relationship dynamic is going to be a lot better to watch

than Blake crying and Christine and Kaelin crying and everyone else, like, yelling at each other. I would much rather see that than just about anything else we've seen thus far. That does deserve more attention. I don't think it's getting enough attention. Like, how does that happen? Yeah, it almost reminds me of the sandlot where the kid goes in the, pool and the lifeguard starts giving them, you know, mouth to mouth and then all of a sudden they're kissing and he's like on cloud nine. It's his dream come true. It almost reminds me

of that scene. That's pretty funny. It's different circumstances, but very similar. Very similar in a lot of ways. Finally, uh, the story that we had to talk about before we bring on a really special guest is, uh, you know, actually, let's bring her on to talk to her about this. We have Jane from Bachelor in Paradise. Jane is best known for her hot sauce, um, and pouring the hot sauce down her throat. I want to talk to Jane about what she did to JPJ. I was like literally on the floor laughing at this scene. It was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen just because of how bad she felt and how sick JPJ was. But before we bring Jane on, let's take a little break to talk about our sponsors.

Hi, my name is Enya Yumanzoor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast. And we run a podcast. called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you.

Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Passengers, the pilot is having an emergency, and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, until this. Do this.

I can do it my eyes close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devon. And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack

expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth.

Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in. it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, it's Honey German. And my podcast,

Grazacus come again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years.

Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending

with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing Vibras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me.

But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new. Season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We have Jane out there on the line to talk about JPJ. Jane, welcome to the almost famous podcast. Hi, glad that you guys have me here today. Hey, Jane. Hi.

Jane, Dean is the co-host today. if you're wondering why Ashley's voice just sounds a little bit different. Jane, you had one of the most memorable scenes from this last episode. It might be one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen on Paradise. You decide to swoop in on JPJ. Can you lead up to when your love and your eyes start to go towards JPJ during your time on Paradise? Sure. I mean, you know, let's not go as far.

love, but, you know, I feel like it took me, like, time to kind of get out of my shell on Paradise just because I wasn't super familiar or close with any of the girls or the guys. So the only person that I kind of felt, like, comfortable with, like, talking to was J.P.J. Because he felt easygoing, mainly because every other word is, yeah, yeah, and cool. and, you know, so, like, he's just so easy to talk to. So I was like, you know, I definitely gravitated towards him because he just made me feel the most comfortable. And that's how I kind of, you know, got pulled into him.

How did, at what point did you find out that he was allergic to tacos? Oh, my gosh. Okay, he's not allergic to tacos. I don't want to be responsible for, like, killing anyone. Like, that was traumatizing. I think the problem is that it's really hot in paradise, and I'm really spicy. So when I hand you a taco in paradise, if you can't take the heat, I mean, I guess, like, that's what it leads to. They were really, really spicy tacos.

I'm not going to lie. Like, I am the spice queen, and, like, even for me, that taco was, like, super, super, super. super fiery hot, but, like, obviously, you know, being who I am, I was like, well, I can do it. And then I look over, and JP is like, where did this, where did this affinity for hot sauce come from? When was this born? Um, I mean, I just feel like you're born with it. Like, you're either born with that spice or you're not. Like, you can't just, like, develop it. Like, you just got to love it. So I started, like, eating, like, spicy candy when I was like four. this candy called Lucas.

It's like Mexican candy, and it's super, super spicy. So that's, you know, that's where it came from. What are your thoughts on hot Cheetos? Oh, my God. I live and breathe hot Cheetos. And I'm not even talking about just like the regular hot Cheetos. I'm talking about like the black bag. That's like the extra extra hot.

Yeah, those are spicy. Yeah, I love them. I did like seriously have it for breakfast. You're an extra extra, extra hot spicy chito yourself, Jane. Thank you very much I'll take that as a compliment Jane where did you want to see this spice with JPJ actually go

I feel like oh gosh there's so little time in paradise everything is super rushed so I was just hoping like because he was the one that I felt the most like open and comfortable with like I wanted to explore where that could go

and I wanted to see you know, just like what could possibly develop because we had a pretty good set like friendship and I was hoping like maybe something more would come out of it I just didn't think what would be coming out was the taco from his like stomach but that's a good way to be remembered

but there's really no scene in Bachelor in Paradise History that I've laughed at this hard because it might be a little evil of me and I'm starting to believe now with the spiders in my Roger. I have a little bit of evil inside of me because you feel so bad. Like, you're crushed. Like, it almost looks like you're in tears because the guy that you're trying to go to date with is puking on the beach because of the taco you gave him. So him tasting the taco made him puke.

As a result, you're crying going, I didn't have needed to go like this. And I am at home dying laughing. I was literally like this is not a part of the plan like you know like I did not think he was you know like gosh he just really couldn't take the heat but you know what you know what I will say my soulmate when I hand him a spicy taco even if it's too spicy for him like my man will take it down okay so it just kind of showed me like well isn't my soul because she's got to be able to stand the heat. And by the heat, I mean, the taco and me. So, you know, I love Davey Day.

I guess he'll always be a friend. But, you know, if you can't take the spice, and I guess you can't keep me either. I hope one day, Jane, you can find a man who enjoys the taco and your spice. Me too. I hope I never have to, like, cause anyone any food poisoning. I really did feel so bad, though. Like, I don't know how much, like, the audience needs.

that I was hysterically crying because you never want to be responsible for someone puking their brains out at the beach and let's be real, like, the way Jay D.J did it was like, in such a, like, he tried to still, like, really keep his composure and he would be like, puke, I'm okay, puke, I'm all good, puke, don't even worry about it.

And I'm like, Davey, Day, I'm calling the ambulance. It was pretty commendable. He would puke and then walk back into the crowd and be like, what's up, guys? Good as, oh, actually, excuse me one second, one's cute. Hi, like, right out of my son, and you're like, I'm okay. I'm good.

And then he was all over again. I'm like, no, you're not. Like, I'm going to go get you some water. I can't. It was so bad.

It was really traumatizing. Like, it was so traumatizing. Yeah, I bet. I'm just looking back on this. Right? And then then Yaka comes in,

and then she's all like, oh, no, what happened? And I'm like, oh, crap. Now I just made, like, you know,

her potential Christ puke and now she has to see him like that. No. And I'm just like, You know, I hope J.P.J. doesn't hate me. I hope Boniega doesn't kill me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'd like to stay alive on this island.

Yeah. Well, Jane, you're commendable for sharing what you hoped was a beautiful dinner date with J.P.J. I don't even know how to say. Quite honestly, I'm having a hard time summing this up because, like, all dirtiness aside, all I want to say is, like, Jane's tacos made JPEG. But that's so inappropriate. I don't know how to end this. I don't know what to say right now. Oh, my God.

Stop. You want to cry right now? I know. I really just feel so bad. But he totally came up to me after, and he was like, I know it was in your fault. Like, don't, don't worry about it. And I'm like, I can't even talk to you or everything. Like, you know, I made you throw up.

Like, I literally was crying, so I couldn't even, like, respond to him. And he, like, tried to, like, comfort me as he's standing there, like, pale, like, sweaty. like 10 pounds lighter from everything he just cute yeah awesome that's that's the real that's the real spirit of paradise in my opinion that sequence of events is better than anything

we've seen up until this point this season in paradise I appreciate that at least you know I you know I um I left my mark oh my god so bad well Jane we wish you the best we hope love is out there for you

Jane, thank you for sharing your taco on Paradise and thank you for continue to be an advocate for hot sauce everywhere. Jane, we appreciate you. Thanks for coming along with a podcast. Thank you so much. You guys are awesome. Keep it spicy.

It's spicy. She loves it. She loves it. She's good at it. I honestly, Dean, I don't know how to like, my middle school self came out there. And like there was no ability to talk about this scenario without just like laughing like I just just just but that's what that's why we want to watch

paradise is from the things like that that make us laugh and that we don't have to really like take too seriously you know in my opinion I agree it felt fun to watch I got felt like it felt like a real scenario yeah it felt like something that would happen in real life that's enjoyable that us as viewers get to live vicariously through it's vulnerable it's it's not threatening and it's not the kind of heavy stuff that we've seen so far in Paris I hope we get to it. This is the first, we should note,

Dean, this is the first season that Alon Gale hasn't been in charge of paradise. And so the feel and the look might be different than past seasons. And I think I'm interested

to find out, are they going to go more on the dramatic side? Are they going to go more funny and like lighthearted? Where is this season going to go? Dean, because you're in Paradise,

I don't know if I can even have you answer that because I think your answer will probably be pretty accurate to how the season's going to go. Well, from what we've seen so far, I would say it's airing more on the side of drama. Yeah.

Does it turn around is my question? Does it reverse and start becoming more fun to watch? I think even if I had the ability, like the open floor to answer that question, I don't think I'd be able to. Interesting. Lack of knowledge, you know? Yeah. Well, hey.

It'll be interesting as you happens ago. No, go ahead. Dean, to close out this podcast, we're going to talk a little bit about the couples pairing up in Paradise. No road summary this week, but we did see Annalise and Chris hitting it off. Their kiss felt weird. We've said it. It's a little cringeworthy.

I don't know if that was just them not expecting to kiss or it being forced. Chris and Christina are talking Wills and Hannah G. But Hannah G does tell him not to waste the rose on her. So she is going to stay with Dylan, it looks like. And Blake is lighting candles as we see. And I think it's insinuating that Hannah G is going to be the one to, to enjoy those candles. The other couples are Demi and Derek.

We've seen them kind of hit it off. Cam and Kalin. That seems to be a hot and steamy relationship that we'll see where that goes. We're excited for that one. And I don't know. Who else is in Paradise hitting it off right now? Oh, that's a good question.

Who's Sydney hitting it off with? Who's Katie hitting it off with? It's still pretty early. It's still pretty early. I think there is a lot more couples to come. Listeners, please email us at Ben and Ashley at iHeartMedia.com and then also tag us on Instagram on All Most Famous Podcast. Let us know who you want to see couple up. Also, any couples that you're just totally against right now, do you think is absolutely crazy? Let us know that as well.

Hey, we're going to take some listener emails. Dina's going to stick around for it. It's been a great podcast. But before we do, let's take one last break to talk about our sponsors. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers, the pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it?

It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do my eyes close. I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devon. And on our new show, no such thing. we get to the bottom of questions like these.

Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison

or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months.

The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, your podcasts. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast, Grazacus Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper

into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there.

Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vibras you've come to expect.

And, of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of my Cultura podcast network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast,

I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard.

And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomper podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHawks, Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Listener emails, one of our favorite times of the Almost Famous Podcast.

We've got a lot this week. As you can imagine, opinions are fiery. We've got so many opinions coming off of Paradise. It's a little bit overwhelming. That's why we do two episodes now. Do you get that? Because of how much response we have to this podcast, now we're pumping out more podcast. I'm a big fan of it. Thank you for taking up, you know, three hours of my week instead

of just one and a half now. But, hey, that's, uh, that's to be talked about later. Isabella writes in, thoughts on these BIP girls. Says, I love Christina. I want her to find love so bad. Do you think she's going to try again with Dean? Or is Dean going to try again with her? Also, I want to hear your guys' opinion on Caitlin because I has never really a huge fan of hers. Thoughts. Okay. We've talked about Caitlin enough. I think we can skip over that. But Dean, are you going to go after Christina? I guess you're just going to have to tune in to find out to see if me and Christina could potentially pick up where we left off on Paradise.

Oh, I bet there's a love story behind that. Oh, boy. That's what's going to be fun about next week is you've got to see me come into the beach. There we go. I would assume it's next week. I actually don't know, but I think it is. Little Deaners popping down the stairs. Yeah.

Nothing's better. Hey, Megan writes in, Dean, this is a great question for you. bedding situation at BIP. So obviously everyone is sweaty and it's humid and there's constantly people leaving and arriving. So they need to know how often do this sheets get changed during Paradise? That's a good question. I mean, the beds get made every day.

I guess I can paint the picture for you. This way there's three sleeping areas. There's the guy sleeping area, the girl's sleeping area, and then there's a new arrival sleeping area. So say there's four new arrivals in a week. They will sleep in the new arrivals area. and then when the people leave from the old room they will fill their spot in that one

and I guess I've never actually thought to ask if the sheets are being replaced in there I've always just kind of assumed I've never really been one to care so maybe it doesn't really affect me too much but every time I went to bed my bed was made my clothes were I think were folded on top of my bed it's basically like a hotel

you know like a hotel outside on the beach yeah okay okay well it's interesting Yeah, I wonder. You would think there would be. Who knows? I mean, there's always sand in the bed I hear. But just to give a little picture, Paradise isn't a bad place to be. You probably enjoy it, but it's not like luxurious.

It's not, I mean, it's a nice resort. There's air conditioning in the boom boom rooms, which maybe adds to the incentive to go in there with a potential partner. But the rooms that you sleep in by yourself or, you know, with your fellow guys or girls for them, it's un-air-conditioned. you're you know it's humid it's sweaty you've got like these kind of these itchy blankets it's less than ideal but it's it's it could be a lot worse like it's not bad it's not as nice as the van is it it's not the van sleeping can set up is pretty uh pretty pretty nice i got to say i bet you can join me one of these days i would like to no i think i'm going to i think we we got to use the van at some point um jane writes in

There's a conversation between Wills and Blake in which Wills asks Blake if he admitted to Kaelin being a mistake. And Blake's responses, I guess. It hints that Blake did say it. Dean, what do you think? Do you think that was a scene where Blake was still just so caught up in what was going on that he didn't know how to respond? Or do you think he really did say the Kailen was a mistake? That's hard to say. I could see it both ways.

I could see him hearing Kaelan say that he said that, and then so he thinks that maybe he said it. But I also could see him actually saying it and forgetting it, and then, like, look, if I woke up after hooking up with someone and they leaned over and they said, wow, this was a mistake, I would for sure remember that. If I woke up next to someone leaned over it and I said, oh, this was a mistake, I would probably forget that. So the point is saying it, I would forget it. Hearing it, I would 100% remember it. yeah um again it's hard to take either of these people at their word Blake and Kalin given what we know and seeing what we've seen but given what I just kind of laid out I would say that it was said maybe not that she was a mistake

but maybe the hookup was a mistake have you ever had anybody tell you your mistake Dean yes 100% I just want to let you know that you're not one thank you you're not one at all that's really kind I wish I wish I would have screenshot of those text messages and blasted them all over my social when I saw it when I heard that. But alas, I did not. Please don't. That would embarrass me if you did that. Actually, our good friend Nick Viologist tweeted something while we were in that commercial break. I was going through

Twitter. I just want to share it real quick. Is that okay? That's fine. He says, I haven't always loved my portrayal on TV. During that time, I had text conversations that could have changed people's opinions of my intentions. However, it could have potentially come at the price of others. I didn't share. I took my beating. I moved on. I'm better for it. That's what Nick said. and I agree with it. I admire that.

I think that that's how it should be done. How do you feel about it? I just think like all these people publicly responding to this still is just different for me. I don't get, I don't, I mean, I don't know. I retweeted it. Is that okay?

That's fine. Okay. I mean, I have a, but then again, I sit here and I'm like, why are these people publicly talking about it? I'm talking about it on a podcast.

That's fair. That's fair. I don't know. I feel like I kind of, I inserted myself a little bit with my tweet yesterday. Something along the lines of a public figure shouldn't share a private text conversation and how it's a failed attempt to salvage his fragile ego. Like, I'm kind of inserting myself into a situation that I don't really belong in. I think that we just kind of feel like we're, we're kind of part of it in a sense.

You know, like you host his podcast. I was part of Bachelor in Paradise Season 6. Yeah. I think that for the most part, well you significantly more than me are upstanding moral citizens and it's like you see something that doesn't necessarily align with your morals you kind of like want to speak out about it a little bit yeah i mean i've done it right i've done it to political figures i've done it to celebrities before where i've said i've disagreed with things i i get it i will and then again i sometimes do

forget that this podcast is a mean our podcast has almost as many listeners as i do followers so like, I guess when I talk about it on the podcast, I talk about it publicly. I just forget this isn't just like you and I talking and the other people will be joining in on this conversation. Speaking of that, hey, if you're joining in on this conversation, I want to know who you are. Please tweet me or something. Like, I feel like I'm talking to Dean and Ashley every week in this room and it's great and it's fun.

I just need more friends. So like, let me know that we're friends or just let me know that you hate me, but just let me know you're out there. Ben, I'm your friends. I do have to say one thing. It was brought to my attention by Tori, our producer. here about the whole Nick tweet that I just read out loud she writes on the note didn't Nick go public with sex with Andy and it makes sense he yeah yeah he did

didn't he I still agree with what he said I was actually thinking about unretweeting it it's like it's like what he's known for isn't it I'm gonna go ahead and retweet it I don't like Nick I agree I don't want to hate on him here but it's not like she's not wrong right I agree with what he said, but I do see the kind of the irony and the hypocrisy in that a little bit. Anyways. Yeah. I wonder if anybody else listeners will point that out. I wonder if people like watching the

tweets will even remember. I hadn't, like, that's not where my mind went. But Torrey, as usual, you're the engine that makes this thing move along with the rest of the team here at IHeart and the talking heads on the podcast really have no clue what we're talking about. Hey, next email says, Chris B,

this is an interesting one and it's kind of fun to talk about. Chris B seems so much older than everyone else in paradise right i mean that's what we assume yeah but he is the exact same age as derrick who's 32 they say i just feel like it should be put out there that that uh email's from hillary were you are you friends with chris uh he lives in denver i've met him like on the street once like we're at their same restaurant and so no i don't know him at all like i have zero like we talked at the restaurant for probably 15 minutes and moved on i mean it is crazy.

He was on Emily Maynard's season. We laugh and we joke at how old he is and how many years he's been on the show and all this. But he is like the same. I mean, I don't know how old Derek is, but I bet they're both younger. Hey, Tori or Danielle,

can we get an age on Chris B? Because I bet he's younger than Nick. I think it's 32. And Ari. 32, I think. 32, yeah. I mean, 32 is what?

Who else is 32 that we can compare him to on the show? Derek is definitely 32. Okay. So Chris D is 32. years old. So when he did the show, he was 25, which was how old I did. I was. It's just been such a long time since he did it last that it feels like he might be older. Yeah. Like he's not even maybe the oldest guy in paradise. I don't think. Chris is 32 as well. It's wild. Chris Bukoski is 32 years. Clay? How old is Clay? 30? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of guys in their 30s that

are doing this show. I mean, you have Nick and you have Chris Souls and you have Ari. I mean, those are some past bachelors that I can point out that are older than that. Clay is 30 Yeah It's weird Blake is 30 So there's a bunch of 30 year olds Down there on the beach this year

Yeah You know he belongs 32 and you belong Annalise is 34 So she is the The oldest person in In paradise Older than Chris Bukowski

Wow crazy Hey Okay let's do one more here Um Actually they're all about Blake And I'm kind of done I'm done with this conversation I think we've

We've harbbed on it enough. I think the summary to all of this is, you know, the truth is there's two sides of every story. We have to stay curious as friends, family listeners in life, I think, so that we don't jump to assumptions. But sharing, I think we're coming out of this podcast, what Dean is saying is sharing text at any level at any moment that are personal seems like a huge step over the kind of the unspoken rule of privacy. and it's just completely invasive. That's what you're saying, Dean. What I'm saying is I don't want to watch anymore. Again, like, I don't watch Paradise to see this kind of stuff.

I watch Paradise to see JPJ puking on a beach over Jane's Taco. Right. Like, that's what I watch. I don't know. I want to see more of that. I want to see more Jane's Taco making J.P.J. puk. Is that too much doubt for? I don't think so.

That's actually my listener email this week to the Almost Famous podcast from Ben. why don't we get to see more of this kind of stuff Dean hey you're great as always I love you buddy I cannot wait to watch you in Paradise I hope this love story plays out for you I hope there is an amazing future that you are now pursuing post show and hey for next week we wish all these cast members the best of luck we're rooting for the Hannah and Dillons of the world we're rooting for the Demi and Derek's rooting for the Cam and Kalins whoo who with that Dean, follow my lead here, buddy. I've been Ben.

I've been Ashley. No, you have it. I've been Dean. Later. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom.

If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast. for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big,

leaps and their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweetie, Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always have to be so good, no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degrees screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves.

Find resources for breaking through barriers at tetherpapersealing.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. Culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Valicia Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys,

Valicia's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain. I'm breaking down the players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production in partnership with deep blue sports and entertainment

on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is an IHeart podcast.