The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - The Final Rose Has Its Thorn

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Should Matt and Rachel give their relationship another chance? What’s going on with the 2 next Bachelorettes? Will Chris Harrison ever return?? Ben and Ashley have your behind the scenes look at all the Bachelor drama after Matt’s finale. We get an inside perspective on Matt’s season from Bri Springs. She spills some major tea about Pieper and Mike Johnson!We talk to Sam Acho (NFL player and brother of Emmanuel Acho) and hear his reaction to After the Final Rose. He leads us in an important discussion on how the franchise can change and improve. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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to hear this podcast and more open your free iHeart radio app search all the smoke and listen now this is the ben and ashley i almost famous podcast with iheart radio it is the finale episode of the bachelor which means it's the finale episode of like i don't we don't call this a season but like we're going to break down the after the final rose and the finale here on the almost famous podcast actually this is going to be a longer podcast than usual there's a lot of details uh to discuss. Are you ready for it? Like, are you comfortable? Do you have a good seat? Are you ready to make this thing happen? Not only do I have a good comfy seat. I have my warm socks on. I mean, my heated, my heated socks, my electric socks. That's how settled in I am. That is special.

Well, I'm in, uh, I'm currently in Florida. And so it's 80 degrees. And I'm in a t-shirt. This is why you weren't responding to your text last night. Yeah, sound of sleep. Because you really were asleep. Yeah, you guys are texting at like 11.30 at night. I'm sound asleep. Yeah, because I went to go watch at my friend's house. And then by the time I got home, I was time to text everybody our thoughts. And then I guess you just hit the pillow the second after after the final rose wrapped. Yeah. Yes, I did. I don't last very late into the evening. In fact, that was too late for me. I woke up this morning a little tired. I didn't get my eight hours of sleep, which really is frustrating. But Ashley, we have some really special guests today. One guest who's going to start

out here is Bree. You might know her from this season of The Bachelor. Somebody that we're both very excited to talk to. One of my favorites and I think your favorites throughout the whole season. Like she was her top three pretty much like from week one on. From week one I called her being top three. Yeah. I want to ask her why she's not being considered for the Bachelorette. Like why her name was never tossed into the ring. That's something I'm interested in because I thought like she would be a great bachelor. Why was she never even talked about? Like we talked about so many other people. So many other rumors were swirling. Brees name really was never brought up. And also it's interesting. But then also later on the podcast, we have just a good friend now to the

almost famous podcast. A terrific, a terrific human. Sam Acho, who is the brother of Emmanuel Acho, but Sam Acho, they're both doing great things in the world. But Sam is an author. you got to check out his book um i will talk more about his book and how i know him through our book processes here and just a little bit but uh sam's going to come on and break down after the final rose with us uh because you know obviously a manual is busy right now we're going to have him on at some point but what better person than his brother probably um just the second best person right that's right that's right so uh hey ashley to get started let's bring brie into the podcast we're going to talk about this episode and then again we have some really important questions for her

so brey come on in brie springs welcome to the podcast it's great to see you not reading erotica to me that was wait wait wait wait please elaborate so i i met brie on the erotica writing date that I hosted and Bree there's only if there's like really like it's a whole blur to me I'm sure it's a blur to you but the moment that sticks out in my mind really wasn't even aired and that is our now bachelorette katie humping Matt on that little sette I forgot about that I forgot that we were all shocked because she ended up on top of him yeah and that was a first for us like Wait, this happened on the date? Yeah, I was just coming off of my one-on-one and onto this next group date.

And I was like, oh, whoa, Katie did that. Yeah. Wow. You know, it's a good transition point here, Bree, because there's just something I'm super confused about. And you have to explain it to me. What's up? I'm out of touch these days. I'll try my best.

You've been in our top three since the moment you stepped on to our television screens. Like, Ashley and I, every week, we're like, Bree's going to be there. and you like you never disappointed you were always great and then we get through this season and like if we can for a second this whole like I mean we know what's going on within bachelor nation but then like yeah underneath it all there's been this conversation about like okay what's next right is it going to be a bachelor season again is it going to be a bachelorette season or is it going to be paradise like all this confusion when it comes to the show stuff was happening and then all these names started to get thrown out there about the next bachelorette your name was like not at the top of that list ever and I say that because that was disappointing to Ashley and I it's confusing to Ashley and I why was it like were you in talks and it just never got to the press like what's going

on why is your name not like at the top of that list yeah I I don't know that's a great question it's a it's a really great question um you know I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't consider it um I definitely considered it and it's I don't know I think it's it's meant for a certain people and some people it's it's just not I mean I was just talking with Nick I was in the studio with him yesterday and he made a good point on his podcast last week he was like rea was not meant for for this world and and I would have to agree it's it's hard to put yourself in that situation to be so open and vulnerable and let alone on a reality TV show and the guy that you're in love with is also dating over 30 other women so it's it's tough and and I think you know I think

personally that Katie and Michelle are going to be great at it yeah but okay what does it mean to not be like meant for this world like yeah okay take away the like opening up part because as the bachelorette you your job is to know the contestants and allow them to know you but like what do you mean you're not made for this world i think you're perfect for you're great on to you're great for it well i i felt like i could be myself and that could come across so authentically and I'm happy about that. But it's just, it is, it's a highly produced world. And it's, it was tough. It was tough to to watch back. And let alone, I don't, I just don't know how it would all play out in the end. I think we all have gone to a point where, you know, we all had high hopes for this season. And then now we're watching, you know, as we've been watching it back and see it all play out the way it did, you're just a little bit and shock at how much control you could lose in a situation like that. And that's, I mean, that's something that I thought about. going into, you know, if I were to be asked to be the next Bachelorette, like, that's a, it's a big responsibility to take on.

This week, you made a comment in press that this season has been mentally and emotionally draining for you. So I would imagine that the Bachelorette process would be even more so. But can you elaborate to us about what specifically has just really brought you, brought you stress? Yes. I mean, I look at, and what I meant by that was I look at all of the pain that happened and the mistakes that have happened in order for us to get to this point that we're at now.

And at least for me as a black woman, it's, I look at it and see how far we've come in progress, but then it's just, it feels defeating that it's just, okay, wow, we have so much further to go. I mean, I think a lot of people could agree that there was a missed opportunity for the show to tackle much larger conversations and really dive into these diverse stories. And we didn't see that. So that was disappointing. But I know that they are taking the steps necessary to do better.

And I want to see that. Do you, I haven't asked anybody this yet. And you just kind of brought it up. When you're on it this season, like living in that world, Matt James is a bachelor. It wasn't a secret to anybody the opportunity at the show had by having Matt James is the first black Bachelor, the most diverse cast ever on television for The Bachelor. Was there ever a moment while you're in the show that you're like, I feel like they're missing opportunity?

Like, I feel like they're not doing enough. That's how I felt watching it back. You know, I can confidently say that I had a great experience while on the show. I felt heard. I felt seen. I felt supported. I think it was after the fact. And I don't think it's just me or just the women from our season.

I think a lot of people, maybe you guys might have. felt this after your seasons, but you are just kind of plunged into this world and you don't know how to navigate that after math, like the after the fact. So in that sense, I do feel like there could have been more done, more support, more, I don't know, like as a comms man, as a comms professional, I would have liked to have heard from ABC, right? Like, I would have liked to have heard like, hey, we're listening to you. Like, we take this stuff seriously. Like, we condemn this, but I didn't see that. And that was hard. That was really hard to be a part of this season and not see that. That is interesting, isn't it? I mean, we've talked about it recently and with a few people

who are at like kind of the heart of everything going on. And you're one of those people, right? You're at the heart of what's going on. You're on this season. Ashley and I removed now, but we still talk about it and we still have a lot of friends involved. It's, it is weird. And it does feel like even in the midst of all these things coming crashing down that somebody didn't say okay but hold up along the way can we reach out to the people in the middle like that are in it like can we at least like reach out that that is a weird thing that didn't happen it's like you know that's a good lesson learned something that probably should be brought up now is where was the support post show or how can the show best support contestants and leads post show maybe that comes from this maybe that's one of

the lessons learned it would be great if it was that's a great point ben I mean that's something that I would like to see is just a little bit more accountability from the show in how we can move forward and support, you know, cast and leads moving forward because in my mind, it was a lot of pain and mistakes that could have been avoided. But here we are, and hopefully we can take that into these next season. Yeah. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. I always like to ask, you know, the the contestants that got really far how they felt watching the show back did they get closure did they realize why you weren't the girl standing there in the end how did you digest watching the season back yeah as odd as it sounds watching my breakup back gave me the closure

that I needed and I mean you guys can relate but you're in the situation after the show where you're left to kind of pick up the pieces of the puzzle and put them back together to figure out what happened. And there was a lot of scrambling after the fact to try to figure that out. But watching it back, it just became increasingly clear to me where Matt's heart was the entire time. And I think we all could see that very clearly. So it was easy for me to walk away from it feeling like I got the closure that I needed and this makes sense. But up until that episode aired last week, did you still feel like very emotionally attached to him? on the show I did on the show all we were filming I mean I was blindsided I was heartbroken

and I was sad and I did not see that coming but watching it back I'm like oh got it like I didn't see his connection with Michelle and I didn't see his connection with Rachel in the house and watching it back I'm like oh my god there was so much undeniable chemistry there I mean I even have to ask myself like if serena p. didn't send herself home would I have even stayed like would I have gotten that rose because him and Serena P had a really, really strong amazing connection. Did you guys ever know that Serena let herself go? I think we did. I think it was very, I think it was obvious to us when she didn't show up. Okay. She sent herself home. Yeah. All right. So after watching the whole season and

specifically last night, do you feel like Matt is even in a. place for a relationship? Is that somebody that you would still see yourself having a successful relationship with? I will say, I can confidently say that I'm not still in love with Matt. I think he can probably walk away from this experience looking at it and saying that there's a lot of room for growth here. I was surprised by all of it, though. You know, I, in my mind, he and Rachel were so in love and I thought they were going to really see them. themselves through this and see themselves at the end of this. But I also understand why that couldn't happen, why he didn't feel that that could happen.

And he feels like he, they need to kind of go their separate ways in order for that growth to to take place. It felt like after like watching last night and then even watching Matt on Good Morning America, like you can see the, I don't want to catar, but like just the heaviness in his eyes. Like there's like he's tired. Yeah. Like he's tired. And I think.

I think no matter who you are, you know, you're not used to, you know, 12-hour press days and he's in it right now. So he's tired no matter what. Did you feel like on the show, was he stressed out? Like, could you get a sense that he was running, you know, thin the whole time? Like, just like mentally not like, like, I guess mentally with so close to breaking? You mean on the show during filming? Yeah, during filming. no i mean i think it was completely different you know i don't think anyone saw how this season was going to play out the way that it did you know in my mind i think matt was happy on the show and i think matt was in love and again rachel was his end all beyond vice versa for for rachel but it's been exhausting watching this having to wake up to something new happening every single day and just have it kind of blow up in your face and i can't fault matt

for not knowing these things. I mean, we can't fault Matt for not knowing these things, but I'm sure he just got to a point now, like watching after the final roads, it looked like he was just like, I just want this to be over and done with. I bet. Do you think that's one of the reasons why they're not together

is like he just wants to be clean? Perhaps. I mean, I think like they both owe it to themselves to do what's best for each other because I think, you know, from an audience perspective you know we want we want to see certain things but at the end of the day it's like it's their lives it's their their livelihoods and they have to do what's what's best for for themselves to move forward from this because it's tough that's tough my heart broke for both

of them i can't imagine how tired he is i mean i like that we got to give that some like um some notice it's just like he's got to be exhausted now uh exhausted before we break down this episode i know Ashley has a few more questions for you. It's my question. I like to ask anybody who came off the show. Are you glad you did it? I am. I am really glad that I did it.

And I have no regrets, no regrets allowing myself to open up to Matt, really fall in love with him. And I can confidently say that I took a lot of lessons away from the show and even more amazing friendships with the women of this season. I mean, that was icing on the cake, honestly. yeah i'll ask my next questions while we go chronologically throughout the episode so first we see michelle meet his family and his mom's i love the way his mom was so emotional with both girls however my takeaway from the meet the family meeting is that this is when even before his mom

said anything about a lifelong commitment and love fading which all right let's talk about that for a second she really freaks him out with this love fading thing and I'm like there's always a chance that love is going to fade love is a risk we can't we can't live in that fear because if we do then we'll never have a fulfilling relationship what do you think about that I would have to agree with you like I you know all of us entering into this world we're willing to kind of take that risk take that leap of faith to really allow ourselves to fall in love. And I think he probably got really scared

because he'd never been in a relationship before. He had never been in love before. So whenever you hear that, you're like, oh, shoot. And I'm about to get engaged tomorrow or two days. Like, you get freaked out. Yeah, because everything's already up. Like, you're already so confused up in your head the way it is at that point. You're like, I could be engaged in two days.

And if there's any seed of doubt in that, then like, then you get even more confused, which is probably good why he just said, hey, let's just date because there was that doubt there. I wonder, though, I don't want to put words in his mom's mouth, but I wonder this because I watch that. And what I took from it was, what she was saying was, you know, this is, and I'm going to expound and put words in her mouth

more than it ever is healthy, but this is what I was thinking. Is, you know, you're in this crazy experience, Matt. There is, it is euphoric. It is beautiful. You are feeling all sorts of puppy love. Like you are just overwhelmed with this. sensation of like, you know, the angels are singing and the, you know, the leaves are greener

than ever and there's love in the air. But, and I will say that when it comes to a committed love, like love that last, that feeling fades and it comes at times, but is not a constant, right? Like the puppy love, the early love, the middle school love fades. And when it does, what's left. And what's left is that committed loving partnership, that relationship that maybe doesn't feel is like, oh my gosh, this is overwhelming, but what's left is, no, you're my partner. You're my person. We're going to get through life together. I wonder if that's what she was saying. Like that fades. And I would say 100% that's a good note to give your son is like look past this on like not as much of like the emotion of what you're feeling now. But if if you're looking at

one of these women, is that somebody you can't live without forever. Yeah, I hope she was saying that. I don't know. I mean, I hope that's what I would hope that she was. That's like I said, I just put so many words in her mouth, but that's what I'm thinking. Okay, so I felt that even before that Love Fade's conversation, you could feel the doubt creeping up with Matt because unlike all the other leads, okay, not all the other leads, but most other leads, when they bring the girls or the guys to meet the family, they are stoked and they are like hanging on like they're on pins and needles waiting for the advice. the feedback from the family after the meeting and you just feel more passion but I feel like Matt was like he was definitely in the

I don't know what I'm doing land in his head already he knew I mean that would be a really good question that I to ask Matt like if he was honest with himself throughout this entire experience because I could see coming into it

how you're so open to the possibilities you're open to an engagement like hey that's what I was there to do too um and then he just had this like wave of and i mean it was just it was a complete 180 from the conversation i just had with him on how high ended things like i walked away saying matt's ready for an engagement like he's reassured me and then you get there and you you see that he he just kind of wasn't so i could see how it all hits you at a certain point where you're like oh shoot like we have been in a bubble this is not reality this is fantasy am i ready for this that is wild that you brought

that up because you asked him point blank on your date the week before are you ready for an engagement and and what they didn't what i feel like you probably didn't see was whenever i responded saying like um that was really roundabout answer yes or no and he said yes i i would have to though say to matt's credit and i'm i'm a big matt fan i think you know just like any lead he fell short at times he did great at times like i'm i like mad a lot as a person but you don't as the lead one I would disagree with you Ashley and say I wasn't super stoked to have my family meet the girls I was super nervous because I knew that they were going to be my parents were going to be very overwhelmed I knew it was a lot for them to take in I knew I was showing up for and not seeing them for months them never meeting these girls and being like hey I'm going to introduce you to one girl that like I could be with and I'm not going to tell you which one because that's not something we can do here but I'm going to just tell you like I'm very interested in like it's a lot and it's very It's a very hard situation. The second point that I want to make is when you're on the show,

and I don't know if you all felt this way, it kind of like goes in a wave and like you have, you start out and it's a lot of fun and it's exciting and it's new and you're like exploring it. And then you get into the moment, like middle ground where it gets like long and you kind of get tired and stressful. And then you get to the end.

You don't actually have to confront the idea that you're going to be engaged possibly at the end of this until like three days before it actually happens. Okay, well that's what happened. Exactly. So like you talk about it. it you joke about it like people ask you about it but like you it doesn't actually hit you that holy cow this is actually happening and you have to ask yourself do i want it to happen or not until like

the variance so maybe that's when it hit him yeah and you know what can i also say something too is i think what i mean maybe if i could go back and do something a little bit differently i think i would want to clarify like what does this engagement mean to you because as crazy as it sounds like I actually didn't know that I had never been in love before. So maybe if that was a conversation that we had, you know, like, is this something that, you know, this is the one time you're going to get down on your knee in your life? Like, is that what's all writing on this engagement? And I think that that's a really important question to ask yourself if you're going to go back into the situation is, what does this engagement at the end of this mean to you? Is it like, I'm putting a ring on your finger, making a promise to you and we're going to figure out what comes afterwards?

or is it like, this is the last time I want to do this. So I have to know that you are my person. And here's what we're going to lay out on the table. Okay, so you have to wrap with us in a little bit. Like, we don't have you forever because it's a very busy post post finale, you know, press day for you. However, I want to get an important question in. Tell us about Rachel in real life and how you feel like she's handled this throughout the past

couple months. Yeah. Yeah. So Rachel and I, Rachel Kaye, yeah. Yes, Rachel and I were, we're friends. We're friends. We were friends on the show. And as soon as all of the photos and videos started coming to light, you know, I reached out to check in on her and extend my support. And I didn't hear from her until after, you know, the filming of after the final rose. And I think her apology was a step in the right direction and the most important thing that she can do is turn. her words into actions and I think she's starting to do so by sitting down and having that conversation that she did with a manual and and seeing how she responded and how she was just honest and she was extremely apologetic. I think she's taking the right steps and it's just we all want to see action being done and I know she's a good person. I know she has a good heart and I'm

proud of her for being able to handle this and like with stride as she has um i just think there are obviously a lot of learning lessons that she and a lot of other of us can can take away from it it's uh it's nice to you to reach out to her though that's a big deal thanks uh yeah it's awesome it's tough i mean we and one well one of the things that i wish people could have seen was the the bond that we all had for each other i mean the women we all really leaned on each other as sort of of strength and support during the season. And I wish people could have seen more than that. Because behind the scenes, like, we all are friends and we're supportive and we're there

for one another. That was a massive, a massive air. Like, huge. Like, we should have seen how supportive you all were to each other. Like, we didn't see that, right? The takeaway from the season was this is the one group of cast members that, like, never got along. And it's like that, you're saying that that was so far from the truth.

I would, I wish it was more balanced. because while there was, I'm not going to deny, you know, negative things that I think people saw from audience perspective. My personal reflection was positive with everyone. And I wish people could have seen more. I mean, you saw the dates, for example, the dates that got cut out, like those were so fun. And we all had an amazing time. Actually, my group date, that was my favorite group date ever. I mean, I think it told a lot about somebody.

Oh, come on. That was ridiculous. My day got cut down to like two minutes. I was there for five freaking days. I mean, and then all of a sudden. I was on, wait, I was on the, on the dates of both of you then. Yes, you were on my date as well. Yeah.

The pumpkin patch. The pumpkin date. When I was just yelling at these poor girls to eat more pancakes, how just absolutely brutal is that. Like awful pancakes too. Like three. Oh, there were three, actually there were three pancakes dry with like nothing to get them down with like, and these poor girls were like, I walked out to see like, yeah, it was

it was brutal. Okay. Hey, anyways, Brit, you're the. the best. Big fans of you here. And thanks for joining us. I'm sure we'll be talking to you and seeing you around for years to come. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Hey, uh, thanks for coming to the podcast and really appreciate you. Thank you guys. I really, really appreciate it. Really nice to see you guys. Bye. Bye. One last question. Who do you want to be in paradise? Come on. We need that headline. Guys, I don't know if I'm going to do paradise. She has a

someone is that a thing yeah i don't i don't know if i'm going to do paradise but i mean i would i'm just going to ship this couple because i've been a fan but um piper and um mike oh that's that's new that's good that's good that's good yeah hey it's always good person wasn't your personal choice but you put something out there yeah it's nice to talk about somebody else before you talk about yourself because now the headline reads piper and mike i like your style brie you you get it hey have a good one have a drink of water you've got a long day of talking thank you guys see you all right ben well let's continue our our part one recap together okay the first two hours uh after the mom and and his brother meet with him we go into the dates uh but turned

into one date because he only went on a date with michel they they did the propelling which didn't seem that scary off the side of the shot tail no i was there like five stories tall yeah i was like this i could do they're really stretching at this point my mom was watching it with me and she's sitting there she's like wait is this is scary she's like i would do that like people do that every day there to like do maintenance on the building like that's not scary like that was like yeah that wasn't a big deal for me yeah um okay so then we go to the nighttime portion which was just like you knew he was walking into that room to break up with her and then and then right as he was almost about to get the guts and the words to do so she goes

wait i want to show you this gift i got you about taking on the world together oh no oh did you see his actual reaction like he put his head he put his hand to his forehead and like looked over it's just one of those moments that you're like i don't want to be here i don't know how i signed up for this i care about this girl uh it's brutal like I mean the whole thing was about being teammates and then he has to like I mean it's like LeBron leaving Cleveland like he has to break up with his teammate brutal absolutely awful oh it was so bad and the misses I was like she pulled out the mister and I was like oh god the missus is coming the missus is coming and this is going to be so bad and there it was anyway and then we learn that that that he you know walks her out of that room and then she goes back and she's like crying and crying and being consoled by the producers and they're trying to set up her to have like two minutes of extra time to talk to Matt and he denies it that's weird yeah I don't get it I still I don't understand that I'm telling you I feel like he like lost his soul throughout

this process a little bit like don't we all so drained yeah it happens I mean he might have and he was tired and he was confused and at this point he's probably tired of talking about it he might not have been seeing things clear like he might not have been seeing like hey she actually just really wants to talk to you and it could have just been like what what's going to be the benefit like I'm not changed my mind and never really know the whole like reason for it um it's interesting too actually as we see you're talking about Michelle how many how many weeks have we had Michelle like on the show now I mean we know her better than like any other contestant yet she was here like half the time yes she we missed out four weeks on her but

Yeah, we definitely feel like I think that I feel like I know her just as much as I feel like Rachel, right? Yeah, I think so. But yeah, I mean, Matt, you said it best. Like, it feels like he lost his soul. And I would say, like, it's not just Matt. That's not like a Matt thing. That's like all of us. Like at this point in time, you're so tired that you see the like light it into the tunnel and you're running for it. And anything that's going to distract you from that, I see how you don't want to get involved in it. But I mean, not a good decision. Still a bad decision for him. Yeah. But I can see how it happened. I understand. Exactly. well put Ben well put so then after Michelle's dumping Rachel gets a date card to her room that says like I need a minute can't see you today basically and at first I really thought Rachel was like secretly a little excited because I think she knew that meant that he was emotional over dumping Michelle the next day but then I think she had a bigger realization that like oh crap He doesn't want to see me, though. So what's he thinking about? Ah, yeah. It would have been really, like, I don't know how she would have gotten to a place of being excited about this. Like, I would have been in my own head thinking about every worst scenario. You weren't.

No, like, I don't think you are. But, like, I know myself. And I was like, oh, I'd be in my own head saying the worst possible scenarios would be going on. So if she did think of to herself, like, oh, this is a good thing. He, like, is sad because he let Michelle go. And I'm just going to hang out here and have my coffee and ticket for a few days until he's ready to see me. Great. But, like, I would have been in my own head for three days. Well, my initial interpretation of this, and it may have been hers, too, was like, hey, I'm going to take today off, but I'll see you tomorrow.

I didn't think we were going to just totally skip Rachel's date and go to the big rose ceremony. Yeah. Did you think that they were going to go immediately to the rose ceremony? I watched his whole episode confused. Like I didn't think he was even going to go to the rose ceremony. Like I thought that I pretty much thought like he at this point was just going to like say, let's go date. Let's like skip all this. Let's get out of here. And that's how the show was going to end. So I didn't know what was coming up next. I just thought. And I honestly didn't maybe. And this is maybe how bad I am as a fan of the show. And I've been on the show. Like when he when she got the letter that said meet me at the. the lake like that gave me anxiety i was like if somebody wrote me a letter and was like see me at the lake i'd be like oh crap this is it this is over not even thinking i would have never even thought that that was the final like rose i would have been just like he just wants to see me the lake to send me home that's what i was thinking i was like are they going to tell her to wear the big fancy

dress here or is this just a date that's what i was confused by me me at the lake sounds like let's go have a picnic at the lake and talk things over especially since he said i need let's talk something like along those lines so I definitely thought this is going to be more of a conversation and less of a I'm pulling up to the final rose ceremony because guess what didn't even meet her at the lake he met Harrison at the lake and then she pulled up to like that big to do yes very complaining I'm not complaining here but like I feel like she just had no idea what direction this is going in and I feel confused for her well and I I think I think that's fair because I I mean, I had no clue either as a fan

and like Bree was just kind of saying there's a lot of things as fans that we have the privilege of seeing that the contestants don't even see. Like we see the whole story play out in front of us. So as the whole story is playing out in front of us, you and I both who have been on the show and fans of the show were confused at what in the world was happening

and even how it ended was like a tad weird to me too because it felt like a really beautiful moment but yet there was no like follow-up conversation for Rachel to ask like why like why do you feel like this now like why are you just asking to date me like what's happened like there was none of that and then that's weird it was weird that it was done at the podium or whatever you want to call that um i don't know what is it called what do you

like at a wedding okay the archway um all right so but like a gazebo also gazebo yeah we'll call it a how funny were the teases of neil lane and trying to get the ring in there and like is he going to propose is he not going to propose basically he's like telling harrison i don't think i can propose then they're like yeah but we quarantined neil lane for a week so we're going to get him in here and then he like looks at the rings and he's like can i hold it and then like he's thinking oh maybe if i feel in the moment i'll do it and then just moments before So he picks out a ring, puts it in his pocket. He says, can I hold on to this?

Then he meets Harrison at the lake. And then he tells him, I'm still going to like play this by ear if I feel like proposing or not. There's no way he was playing it by ear. No way. Can we also give Neil Lane a little credit? He's just spent 15 days in the last four months. So a half of a month in the last, no, six months quarantined for the Bachelor franchise.

Because he did it twice with Claire and Taylor. and then he did it with Matt James. That poor guy, 15 days in a hotel room for his. Yeah, the guy is, he must love room service. Like, he must just absolutely love the idea of watching Netflix, chilling and eating chicken fingers. I don't think so, though. If you know Neil as much as I do,

and that's not that much, but enough to know that that man is very eccentric, he needs to be buzzing around doing art, creating. I don't know how. he handles being in a room. Yeah, maybe one of the best jobs he's ever done, though, for Matt James' season was he sat in it. He talked Matt into taking a ring.

He responded to questions. I mean, the guy is just a fixture on this show. And yeah, they found a way to get Matt to take a ring. And there was no, but, okay, so here's the other thing. And I don't want to be critical of Matt because I've made it clear that I like Matt. And I know how hard this is. like there's no perfect way to do this but here's my thought and maybe matt was just so confused but it was like and i would i want to ask him this on the podcast at some point but like i'm going to

play it by ear or however he said that in the moment when he had the ring in his pocket you don't propose to somebody playing it by ear like that is not a thing that happens i'm just saying for anybody out there listening if you're like i have got a ring in my pocket i don't know if she's the one or not or he's the one um but like if i have in my pocket i'm just going to play it by ear and see if it like that's not how you do this thing so at that point in time we should have all known that he's not going to propose and i'm glad he did it because he wasn't ready for it like it wasn't the thing i agree for sure but that was the that's a weird thing to say like i'm going to play it by ear i know that rachel and matt have been through a lot since that scene was filmed

but let's pretend that nothing has happened and it's just the day after imagine her finding out that he had a ring in his pocket and he just decided by ear not going to get on one knee yeah just like okay it's fine just we'll try it again later not feeling it that intensely in the moment yeah it's not quite there well actually um i would say most people i was watching twitter last day i'd say most people thought the the final episode was uh not the after the final rose piece just like the airing of the episode was like a little bit odd and off like there was a lot of emotional like stuff going on we did get to see the scene that you've been waiting for all season with matt on the curb and and now it makes sense to why he was so upset and why it was so hard for him

um let's take a break here you know we have sam acho coming on to talk about after the final rose uh mano acho's brother sam again is an author a tremendous dude he's going to talk through us he watched the episode he watched the bachelor for the first time i believe um this week not only to watch brother, but to kind of break down after the final rose with us. So let's just take a break here. When we come back, we're going to have Sam Acho on the podcast, and we're going to talk about after the final rose. My name is Ed.

Everyone say, hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my... reality nine years ago.

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Listen to Weiscrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she pivots, I dive into the inspiring pivots of women who have taken big leaps in their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer, Jody Sweeten. Elaine Welteroff. I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I got to go.

I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why behind these changes and gives you the inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots, now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in...

I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy Truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers, and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history.

The predictions will we see a first time winner and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know. Plus, the stories and events off the court and, of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fancy, wonderfully experiential sporting event. I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not. Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wildcard bids?

Or the young Canadian, Victoria Mboko, making a name for herself. How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form? To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an Iheart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting.

We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volisha Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down why it was so important for you to do C. You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys,

Belichia's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Becca Tilly and Tanya Rad. Tanya Rad, that's me. Yeah, and we have a podcast called Scrubing In.

Yeah, we do. We are two best friends, and we love Gray's Anatomy. Hence the name Scrubing In. Exactly. And this week, we have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own. Anthony Hill, who plays Winston on the podcast to chat about what's been going on. If you follow Grey's Anatomy, you know that, I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There are sudden deaths.

People are coming back this season. There's a whole lot going on. It is a huge season for Grey's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in. And you're not just going to get Grey's Anatomy. I mean, we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like you're talking with your best friends on the couch.

Yeah, except not with your best friends. You're talking with us. You're virtual best friends. We're your virtual BFS. That's right. So listen to scrubbing in on the IHeart Radio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm super pumped today. A little backstory here, as all of you know, because you've been listening to this podcast

and I talk about it endlessly. I came out with a book in early February called Alone in Plainsight. Go to Ben Higginsbook.com to purchase right now. But a part of that journey was with my publisher, Thomas Nelson. They said early on in my experience of kind of promoting, they said, hey, there's this guy that I think you're really going to get along with. I think you're really going to like. He's a great dude, an incredible story.

He has a book with us as well. You should talk to him. And I was like, all right, what's his name? It said, Sam, Acho. And I said, perfect. And so Sam and I were able to connect. They were right. this dude has been a massive

we'll talk about it with him in just a second he's been a massive part of my life in the last I would say five months I don't know how long it's been if time flies and you're having fun but it's been an incredible experience where his brother is a manual a show who you might have watched last night

on after the final rose Sam is with us right now to discuss so many things Sam thank you for joining the almost famous podcast I'm glad to be here Ben and Ashley good to meet you we were talking a little bit offline hearing y'all stories so I'm super excited that I'm almost famous.

I am almost famous, right? My brother hosted, my brother hosted after the final row. So, like, he's the favorite. I'm almost famous. So I think this is a very fitting, fitting episode. But Sam, you're also, like,

kind of famous because you were a football player. You are, you know, you're an NFL player. You do commentary. What else do you do? Like, what are your jobs? Because I know you have multiples. Yeah, definitely.

So I played the last nine years in the NFL for the Arizona Cardinals, Chicago Bears, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I just wrote a book called, let the world see you that dropped right before Christmas. So I'm an author working on some other books as well. I do some TV stuff for locally in Chicago because I live out here in Chicago,

but also I've got done some stuff and do some stuff in Canada, like for this Canada show and also some like other new stuff like on ESPN, et cetera. And so that's kind of what I've been doing. And then last piece of nonprofit stuff as well, right? So nonprofit called Athletes for Justice and also have a new podcast called The Athletes for Justice podcast, which I was just on with the NEF Downs. It was a blast. It was good. Like we could have gone for hours, right? Like it was a good podcast. It's fun to talk to you. You know, also you didn't mention he is the better looking brother of the Acho brothers. I would say that mostly because

I know him better at this point. I mean, he's got a great smile. Look at that smile. I wish everybody could see that through their audio. Hey, I love that. You can hear the smile through that. People actually say, like, I could, I could hear you. I love that, though, because my brother, Emmanuel, like, he's the most, like, pretty boy is a strong, it's strong, right? But he literally, like, everything is, like, to the tea and always feels like he's got to be. And I'm, and he, I was out, we were doing ESPN together. And, uh, he said something like, well, he's the better looking acho.

And I was like, bro, I'm good. I got a wife and three kids. And so I, and it actually was just our seven year anniversary yesterday. Oh, man. I'm like, dude, I don't do us. Yeah, thank you so much. So it's like, I'm doing more than just something, right? So you're the single one.

I'm the guy with the wife and kids. So my looks are A, okay. I'm doing just fine. Well, in fact, when I was connected with Emmanuel through Sam, I think my text to him was, hey, you know, it's nice to meet you through your better looking brother or something. But, you know, the Acho brothers are everywhere right now. And we're here to talk about you a lot on this podcast, but also talk about kind of last night. I know last night was the first time you've ever watched The Bachelor. or The Bachelor at, and so we do want to discuss kind of that whole thing and your opinion on it all.

But again, I want to reiterate, like, you're up to a lot in this life. Let the World See You is a tremendous book that I've read, that I've dug into with you a couple times on different podcasts that we've been able to connect on and even over the phone. What was the process like of writing this book? Why did you write it? And for anybody out there listening, that's like, hey, I'm thinking about checking it out. why would they want to check it out? Yeah, well, if anybody put it this way, like I think a lot of people go through like issues of insecurity and nobody wants to talk about it.

Like nobody wants to talk about some of the fear and the shame and the guilt that we've experienced. And so we try to suppress those things. And so this book is really about bringing our full selves to the table because what happens is when you suppress your fear, your shame, your guilt, your insecurity, you suppress those things thinking that I can just cut those out and I'll be able to just live life fully. But like when you cut off one emotions, you cut off all of them. And so like, you can't pick which emotions you cut off. So if you're trying to cut off that fear and say,

I'm just not going to get angry. We're probably not going to be so happy either. Right. If you cut off the shame, I'm just not going to feel that. Well, you're not going to be able to experience those true moments of life and of love. And so this book is for anyone who wants to understand what it's like to be seen, to be known, to be loved. And so if you pick up the book, that's what you'll get from it. If you go to, it's on Amazon and Samachobook.com, wherever you, if you go get the book, that's what you're going to learn. And even for me, like, I'm learning how to name my emotions, because that's one thing that I think people don't do a great job of, whether it's like, man, I'm angry. Like, I'm, that made me really upset or that hurt me, right? I'm learning to do that

because I've noticed that when I don't, I usually just kind of crumble on the inside. And so, like for me, like last night, I was doing something and I literally just picked up the book and started reading it out loud. And it was almost like this reminder of the love. love that was washing over me. And so I think that's what you'll get when you, when you read the book or listen to the audio book, you'll remember that you're, that you're loved, that you're known, and that you're seen the best parts of you. Well, you sound like a fantastic guest today if you're able to name your emotions because we need to name some emotions that went down during after the final rose yesterday. But before we get into Matt and Rachel, Michelle's emotions, let's talk about

your brother for a minute. How did he prepare for this role? Oh, that's a great question. So my brother Emmanuel hosted the show. And it's funny because he's been preparing his whole life for this. We were talking the other day. And he has a daily show on TV on Fox Sports called Speak for Yourself. It's literally every single day for about two hours a day. He's been doing that for about a year or so. Before that, he was on ESPN for about two or three years. Before that, he was on Longhorn Network. It's like doing TV stuff year after year after year, even making videos by himself for social media to digest during COVID. So he's been doing it and preparing for years. And he said something to me the other day. He said, if, like, if this was a 10, like, hosting that show was a 10

as far as difficulty and like the skill and like everything that went into it, he said, everything else I'd been doing was like a four. And so we talked about the idea of like peak performance is when you have to bring your best to the table. It's when like all your gifts and skills and abilities meet the challenge. And he said hosting that show for him was experiencing peak performance, right? The sports stuff he does and he's been doing it at a high, high level, phenomenal. The other stuff he does on social media, Twitter, Instagram, makes videos phenomenal, even his uncomfortable conversations that he's had with tons of people, phenomenal. But he said this was different. He's like, The Bachelor is the most, most watch, uh, non-scripted show on

TV. So I'm, I'm over here like having to make, not necessarily make people cry, but like listen to them as they cry, chains a subject, even that moment where he said to, to Rachel, hey, are you ready to see Matt? And she was like, no. And he was like, well, he's coming out anyway. You know what I mean? You don't have a choice. You know, and like, and even like the production piece, too like he actually was like in a lot of those production meetings like saying hey this is what we need to say how it needs to go even to that specific point right initially they had it edited to where like hey are you ready to go see matt she said no and then all of a sudden Matt was just coming out they cut out his line about that and he's like no no I can't just like come on do like

I can't just make her do what you know like you have to say you have to put my part in there so like even the production piece he's been ready for this for a really really long time and and it wasn't like he was like chasing after it he actually has been trying to produce his own show that's like i think similar to the bachelor i forget what it's called he's been pitching that to different people in la and so the fact that this came about was perfect i heard that it was a seven hour long recording did he say that he was concerned that it was going to be chopped down too much because normally after the final rose is like 40 minutes live and this was a lot longer than that and not live was he worried about certain things being cut out that were important to him yeah i don't

think he was worried because he was involved in that decision making. So like even with the with the video series he's been doing with the uncomfortable conversations with a black man, like those will be three or four hour conversations and he'll cut it down to to 20 minutes. Some of them might be two hours and it'll cut it down to like 12 minutes. And he's the one actually cutting down and and figured out what needs to be in there. And so I don't think he was concerned, but he wanted a little bit of that creative opportunity to make sure that the story was told the way that it needed to be told. It's interesting because one of the backstories here,

and I have a lot of love for Sam, and I think he knows that at this point, when everything went down with Chris and that interview with Rachel Lindsay happened, I was on a car ride, and I was like, kind of like freaking out for a lot of reasons, right? Chris is a friend, and this is blown up on my phone.

Everybody's asking me, you know, and and then also like the the weight of everything that was going to be kind of happening afterwards that we all kind of knew was going to be coming and and I was like sitting there and I was just kind of praying through a car ride and I called Sam. I had like an hour to talk and Sam and I were able to just kind of like I mean he was just incredible to me in the way that like I was able to just like kind of share my heart and him to you know correct and to speak truth into me and to give me encouragement. It's weird for me Sam and I And I don't know if we haven't been able to really dive into it.

It's weird for me now to see like from that conversation that happened, I don't know, 24 hours after that interview to not knowing what the future was going to look like with Emmanuel being the host of the show just a few months later, like how this whole thing has gone full circle in your life and mind, right? You didn't even know about it when I called you. You're like, what happened? And I had to explain it to you. And then somehow, some way your brother becomes the host. Yeah. No, it's funny because, like, you texted me and you were like, hey, this thing. And I was like, I don't know what. Like, I haven't watched the show. And then we talked and I went back and watched it. And I was like, oh, that's not a good look, right? And I did it just from what was said and what I saw, it just wasn't a good look. And so, and I think we had texted it and like maybe like with Chris and all the kind of things. And then my brother was like, hey, I'd love to do an uncomfortable conversation with him. Yeah. Like to have him on my series. I think that'd be amazing. And I think they talked about it, but then I think y'all know more about the kind of how this stuff goes than I do the, what do y'all call like your, the powers at B in The Bachelor Nation?

The production team. Yeah. Okay, cool. The production team. I like powers at B a lot better. The powers at B were like, hey, we want him to get the exclusive on Good Morning America first. So Emmanuel was like, well, hey, come on, let's do the thing. And then it was like, Chris couldn't. He couldn't because like the powers at B. You know, they were like, hey, we want to. to do with this route. And so my brother's like, all right, cool. And then all of a sudden, his phone starts getting blown up. And I don't know all the details. Like he'd have to be the one to tell you. But they're like, hey, I think there was interest in him hosting it. And so like, so like, so like Emmanuel still wanted him on, but he had to wait for the Good Morning America thing.

And I think by then maybe it had, I don't know if it had been announced or not yet. And then so anyways, like, so like they're like talking. And I think they're both trying to like, they're both like figuring this out at the same time, right? Because it's one of those things where it's like, okay, like, can you come on? Can you not? And, like, what's going to happen? And, like, I think some of the news, like, Emmanuel, find out the news about, I don't know what news has been announced.

I don't know, maybe Bachelorette or whatever. And, like, he'll text Chris and be like, oh, man, like, you know what I mean? Like, this happened, you know what I mean? And so they're both, from what I understand, they're both kind of walking in this thing, like trying to figure it out. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool to be, I guess for me, you know, knowing Chris as a friend, knowing you i don't i've talked to ammanuel a few times um it's interesting to see now the

behind the scenes of it all and also though like yeah they have been talking which is why when emmanuel was announced as the host of the show like i would imagine i don't want to speak for chris i have no clue what his opinion was on that but he's like hey like this is a dude that like hey after something i've invested 20 years into like this is a dude that can do that like i you know i know he he wants to do this well i know that he wants to make sure that he wants to make sure that like he's that like everything's talked about. I don't know how that felt for him, but I would imagine it's kind of a weird thing to be like,

wait, I'm also texting with the guy now that's going to be sitting in that seat. And like, he's only texting with him because Sam, who Chris doesn't know, and Ben Higgins says, hey, you should talk to Emmanuel. Like, I just can't imagine what that feels like or what's going on behind the scenes

and those kind of conversations. Yeah, I feel like it's like, and this is always like a sports example. It's almost like you've got, like two quarterbacks like trying to get the starting spot right or like wanting to be on the team a quarterback controversy right and it's like hey coach make the decision you know but it's like hey I'm still going to be friends with you like I'm not going to like I know Emmanuel's heart like he's like I think he understands like life it has a long trajectory so like with anything

the last thing you want to do was say oh let me try and figure out a way to kind of get by on this guy He's like, dude, like, I'm for you. You know what I mean? I'm for you. And I haven't watched all the interviews that Emmanuel's done or have all the ones that Chris has done. But I mean, I even saw some of the interviews Emmanuel said. And it's like he's like, hey, I should be the next.

You know what I mean? Like, he's more, you know, and so anyways, it's almost, I see it like almost like a quarterback controversy. Like, hey, coach, make the decision. We're trying to hang out. We want to kick it. We want to be friends. But like, what is what, what is this?

What's happening? What is this? Do you think that Emmanuel would have been the host if it weren't for Rachel Lindsay's recommendation? That's a great question. I don't know. Like I said, like the powers it be. So I don't know like how they operate. I did see that Rachel like said, hey, he'd be a great host.

And I actually talked to him about that, you know? And he was like, dude, like I didn't ask Rachel to do that. Like I didn't, you know, like I was honored that she, that she said that. but it wasn't like hey rachel uh go put in this good word like and then she got not crucified the strong word but she got kind of thrown to the wolves after that and so anyways um i don't know i don't know i mean i'm sure that um rachel's voice matters a ton and so i think about like her putting her reputation on the line for somebody i think is a is a really big deal it's uh it's just it's the whole thing the whole process has been intriguing and you know one

thing i want to just to say here is well interesting fact is you grew up going to church in the same church with rachel lindsay which is uh kind of a random connection right like uh in dallas texas um but you and your brother both uh are incredible humans right and like to be on television to be hosting stuff and be able to be professional athletes at the same time that's a skill that's a trait like to um but also just like I know from my personal story like the way you've helped me navigate or the way that this whole thing has been navigated where I can call you up and and you're a trusted voice that I can listen to and you you not only share with me like insights and encouragement and prayers but you're also very uh you know clear and direct when I

maybe am off target right where does that come from for you and your brother like how how does that happened where you have two incredible brothers both running these incredible lanes and able to speak so much truth into the world. Yeah. That's a really good question. So I think about our parents, right? People talk about that all the time, right? My parents have been married for 37, 38 years and like a strong marriage so that like they go on date nights every Friday. Right? Like I don't, kids, y'all do your thing. But like, yes, like my dad takes his, it takes my mom. I'm on a date every single Friday, right? They celebrate things.

So there's this idea of, like, parents, like, celebrating their children. Like, that's big. I think about education as well, right? I went to a school, a really, really good school. It's like the number one rated, you know, school in the nation, number one rated private school in the nation in Dallas, Texas. So I think about that piece as well. I also think about our faith, right?

Like, I think for me and I know Emmanuel, like, our faith drives us. And so that's where it comes to it. It's not about, like, me winning and dominant. dominating and destroying and just what it's like how can I love you well and like when Ben when I think about you I'm like dude how do I love you well think about my brother how do I love you what I think about people who I know like how do I love them well even with the um even like with this whole like navigating this new lane right like when you and I texted I didn't know Emmanuel was trying to you know had an option or opportunity to do in the

bachelor stuff like I don't know his his producer people I don't know his uh his powers at V you know I was just like hey man like come on the show you know because yeah he wanted Chris on the show. And I think he knew like what Emmanuel said to me and y'all got to just have him on here. But he was like, man, like this could be a good opportunity. Just so like for Chris, I could a better term, like clear his name. You know what I mean? Like just like let it all out. Yeah. And so anyways, I think I think that comes from our faith, at least from my faith. Like I'm like, all right, God, like my faith in Jesus, period. Like trying to honor him and love well and serve well. I go back to the education, right? The school was big.

And even like that sport piece too, right, being able to live in a couple different worlds, right? He went to this predominantly white school, but a predominantly black church. You mentioned that's a church that Rachel, you know, and her people, Rachel and her family went too as well. And then like home, parents who loved and cared and supported, you know. But even with that piece too about Rachel and Manuel going to church care, like they've been friends for a long, long time. Like before his uncomfortable conversation started, he was actually going to do it with Rachel.

This is like six, eight, nine months ago in June, he was like, hey, Rachel, let's do this thing together. Like, they were just friends. Yeah. And she couldn't do it because she was in L.A. and he was in Austin. But she's like, hey, I know I can't be there, but you go for it, you know? And he went for it and all of a sudden, it blew up. And so I think about their friendship and sacrifice, you know what I mean? Like, Ashley, to your question of would Emanuel have gotten the host without Rachel's recommendation?

maybe, maybe not. I don't know the power is it be, but I do know that was a big sacrifice. I do know that carried heavy weight. Do you think about football, right? I know I'm going back to these football examples. I play for the Chicago Bears. The first Indian American coordinator has now been hired for what I understand in the NFL.

His name is Sean Desai. And he's been ready, right? He's been ready to be a coordinator in the NFL for years. But a lot of times, at least in those circles, it's about who you know. And most of those coaches are white. or white men. So they just hire people who they know who they look like. And so I remember and Sean decided to ask me to do this or didn't like text me and say, hey, put in a good word. I just remember

like speaking out for him. I made a video and shared it and said, hey, like this guy is ready. And I just left it there. And all of a sudden it caught wind and he got hired. I don't think I, I don't know if I have that kind of power influence or whatever, but I just needed to say something because it was true. It was true that Sean Decide was ready to be a coordinator. All these other coordinators were getting hired left and right and Sean was just getting past it was true. And so with Rachel, I think what she said, Rachel Lindsay, it was true. Like you got the first black bachelor and then you have the person who he chose

has made some racially insensitive comments. You've got this guy who's like literally like best friends with Oprah doing book deals with Oprah and having uncomfortable conversations with Matthew McConaughey. and Chip and Joanna Gaines and Chelsea Handler and the whole, like, L.A. police department. Like, if anybody's fit for this conversation, this guy's fit for. Now, if you want to hire him great,

if you don't great for this, but like he's fit for it. So I think there's something to be said about saying something and sacrificing something, though it may cost you, but let it, even though it's true. A lot of people wanted to see Chris on the show, on after the final rows, having an uncomfortable conversation with Emmanuel, was that ever on the table, if you know?

Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. Yeah, I think, you got to ask the powers at B, Ashley. The powers that be. They don't feel anything. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think that was on the table, though. I think, um, yeah, I don't know. And this is my first time watching the show. So I don't know, like, if that stuff like happens, but I know Emmanuel wants to have the conversation. Anything can happen on the bachelor. Yes. I know Emmanuel's trying to have that conversation but with him on the on the on his show right right okay and all right well let's I think we should dive into like the macro of last night so what do you think then yeah let's take a break here let's take a breather when we come back we're going to break down we're going to like we're going to

walk sam who's never watched the show before through a breakdown of an episode it's going to be fantastic he's going to be along for it but let's take a break first we'll be back with almost famous podcast My name is Ed. Everyone say, hello Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin. So, like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

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so sam first episode you've ever watched the thing about finale episodes is often the first two hours are like kind of negated by the after the final rose because many things changed within three months how did you feel overall about the episode and then what are your feelings about what was unveiled at after the final rose yeah so quick disclaimer i think like in high school i might have watched a couple episodes like but not like the full thing so i've seen you kind of it before. You understand the concept. Bingo, bingo. So, and also, second disclaimer, I knew Emmanuel wasn't going to be on until that last hour. So I kind of waited until like 30 minutes before. I caught, I caught like the second hour.

Okay, okay. So then how do you think that the conversation went? Yeah. Well, I just thought, like, when I was watching, and, you know, no intention to offend. Actually, I need to ask questions because I was like, this got to be scripted. No. It's got to be. Because I'm like, the way that, like, the way that Matt was like,

I believe that together. I'm like, is that how people actually talk? Like, but I guess when you're in the middle of the emotions, but he was like, you know, and like, why get the ring? You know, you're not about to marry her. Like, did they make him get the ring? Like the person was coming in showing these different rings. They quarantined Neil Lane for a whole week.

He was going to make his scene. I'm like, bro, you know, you just said you're not about to, you know, you're not, like I didn't, all I know, all I know was that you sent Michelle home. I think Michelle right he sent Michelle home and then he said he wasn't about to be with Rachel so why are you getting a ring you know and then also I was like in the woods and my I don't know if I like y'all might have done this tape I'm like how are you wearing high heels and a dress in the woods like those that's what's going through my mind like what are we doing and so like I'm like I don't think that you know and my parents and I'm like okay so are you going to marry or you not and then he's like we can't be together or something and then but let's date I'm like huh All that for this. And so I was like, y'all, that might just be the, but obviously, and I haven't watched. You know, so it was like, okay, what's going to happen, you know, so. But what I did love, what I did love was how Michelle came after and after the final rose.

And she was like, I was heartbroken. And I just wanted two minutes. No producer, just too, just to talk. And you didn't give me that. So that right there So I loved that piece Because you got to get You got a chance to get behind the scenes

I'm like oh man So I was low key mad at mad Like Matt you didn't give her her two minutes But then I get it like he's like Okay she might change my mind or whatever But then and I care about little things Little things and y'all shouldn't add me on this podcast Because I'm like

Definitely should have But I'm like why did he hug why did Why did like she hug him at the end If she was still mad I'm like I'm not about to hug you You didn't give me my two minutes I'm not about to sit next to you I'm not about to hug you I'm about to sit on the other side and just let you explain your piece before you, you know.

But then, but then with Rachel when they said, okay, you know, Emmanuel was like, there's one last chance for an embrace. And he looked at her like, man, I don't know you. You know, so that was wild. That was amazing. That was something we've never seen before. First off, I sort of laughed when he said, your last chance for an embrace. And I was like, that's very interesting.

But then they didn't do it. And I was like, holy crap. Can we just mention for a second here. One side comment, Sam, this is how fans of The Bachelor start is by asking all these questions you're asking and being like, I don't get it. I don't get it. And then you watch next season to see if you can get it and you never do for 20 years. But the second piece is, can we just give a little credit to your brother and to this episode for how much uncomfortable, for lack of, you know, irony here, uncomfortable silence. was like there was moments here like for that when he's like you can embrace and they just sit there

and your brother has to sit in that with him as they just like sit there in silence or when they do like when they transition into the up to the conversation uh or the after the final rose and there's just this uncomfortable silence like that just pains me inside it's so hard to watch but can i ask another question and i know i guess i'm becoming a fan now i don't know no no no no more questions no no more I refuse. No, please, just this one. Okay, so when Matt, oh, what is happening to me? How do I even know everybody's name now?

So when Matt left Michelle, or maybe it was Rachel, when you were sitting outside the hotel, is the hotel somewhere? Yeah, sitting outside the hotel. And then Chris came. And he was asking like, you know, like, what, it was like, yeah, you're, you're probably confused. and you're probably it's like

if it was me and I was in Matt's shoes like I feel like he had to agree with him whoever the host you have to yeah you're probably feeling confused you probably need to take some time

to whatever like can you say no I'm not confused I just know I don't want to be with her like like that just feels like yeah you probably should this and you got a lot of emotions and Emmanuel did that a little bit too

on the after the final row so I think it's like a host thing but I'm like no what would it be like if you know you probably need to take some time no I don't think I don't think I don't think I know exactly what I'm doing. I think that's what I would do. I think that's why I couldn't be on one of these shows. I'm like, you're not going to tell me if I'm confused or not. I know exactly

what I want. It definitely depends on the personality. Like, I think like a Ben or Matt personality is going to be like, yeah, I really am confused. And I'm going to be like, no, I just don't like him. Yeah. Is that how you were on your episode? That's definitely how I was. I didn't go back and watch. I need to go back and watch this. What season? Oh, no, no, you know, I'm down. Yeah. Oh, see, he's so in. He's in. All. All. all right well let's get to the rachel and matt stuff so there were rumors before that they weren't going to be together but how their breakup unfolded was interesting to me so he says that they had a honeymoon period of course as many should have after the bachelor process is over

and then he said that there were rumors coming out about her but he just kind of like hoped they weren't true. What I found interesting about that is they weren't so much rumors as they were physical pictures. So it just made me go, hmm. And then he said once her apology came out, once Rachel's apology came out, that's when he realized he couldn't be with her anymore. How did you, what were all your thoughts on this? well first of all

so this this was film like three months ago right all the other stuff was done the show yes and then after the final rose just to clarify for the viewers recorded last week but did people know that rachel had won before yesterday or before like last week or whatever it was not for a fact no there was high speculation in this case just because there's been so much press about her Okay. Yeah, because I was, I was kind of confused on the timeline. Like, okay, like, did he know, whatever? Because I'm thinking, this is film before, but this is happening in real time. Kenny, is he allowed to say anything about it? Is Sheila? I didn't really know that piece. So, but anyways, yeah, like, I think I was just kind of, after seeing him not propose and say, like, hey, let's date. I was like, oh, y'all just been dating. Like, this isn't even anything. You know what I mean? Like, I think it would have been different if it was like, let's get married and whatever. But I don't, it was like, hey, let's date. And then.

So, so, like, literally, like, I was catching up on it yesterday. Yeah, I, I mean, I think a lot of people assumed the timeline was weird for me as well. But you just said something that makes sense to me because initially my, my first reaction to that when he was having the conversation with her was like, come on, Matt. Like, this is, this is your partner. Like, you know, you love each other. Like, are you guys breaking this off? You know, she apologized.

Why do you, why are you now gone once the apology happens? Like that was my first reaction. Now you say they're dating and I get that a little bit more now. It's like, no, they're just dating. And this isn't the girlfriend, right? He's made no commitment to her that he necessarily wanted. And like that's- Oh, I feel like it was or was not?

Oh, yeah. That was his girlfriend. They were committed a couple. Committed a couple. He had an opportunity to propose and he was like, yeah, I'll pass. Like what is, if that doesn't say anything, what does? Like, for me at least as a dude. Yeah.

Like, it's like the opportunity. And maybe it's like, I need more time. The opportunity to get engaged after eight weeks. I feel like it was the eight weeks he didn't feel comfortable with. You mean like, is that how long the show goes for? Yeah. So then why is anybody? So let's blow up this whole thing.

Why is anybody proposing after eight weeks? Like that's my issue. Why does any, like, so why did, you know what I mean? I get it. Maybe the powers that be need this to happen. But like, why is anybody proposing after eight weeks? Like, hey, I knew you. You know what I mean?

My bad. Now, did you propose that eight. No, I did. So cut that out. No. So like, you knew somebody for, you knew somebody for eight weeks. and then like two weeks after the eight weeks or three weeks after something new happens oh this is new information yeah so like i don't want to date you anymore because we were just dating that's that's the

way i see it you know and that and that what i'm saying that makes sense to me like right when i watched it you know in my head you know it sometimes works i think it can people get because it's the it's the weird part of the show right nobody's going to claim that it is uh the most effective healthiest uh way to get engaged but you know it works like for ashley it worked like the show work for her. Well, in an introductory, in an intro, four episodes, it worked in an introduction sense. But the point is that like now it makes sense to me because like they were just dating. And like now they broke, broke, he broke it off because of the stuff that he found out,

the new information that he found out during their dating relationship. Period. And that's fine. But I was watching it last night, I guess with the perspective of like, and I never even thought, but like, oh, they're engaged. You're breaking off something that you've committed to. saying, hey, like, I love you. I'm your partner in this.

I'm going to be your teammate in this. I'm your right or die in this. And as soon as you make an apology, then he's like, no, I can't do it. But if they're dating, then I guess it's a little, it makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, I mean two things for me. And these are like my only two things.

I think I've said more than two things, but these are going to be the two things. You like this show more than you're admitting to, Sam. I know. I'm not, I refuse to get sucked in to the powers of be. The powers of be, No, I'm kidding.

Like, so the first thing was, like, I think he knew, like, hey, let me just get to know you. That's what it seemed like at the proposal in the woods with the heels and the dress, right? Like, let me get to know you. That's what it seemed like. And so I was like, okay, like people get to know people. So like, that's information. The part I didn't understand that I felt was scripted. And Ashley, maybe you can speak to this because I know it's, I think I know it's not scripted.

Maybe I got to watch more to find out. But, but she was like, you know, both Michelle and Rachel were like, I couldn't imagine life without you. Like, Michelle brought out the jerseys. I don't know the significance of that. I know we played football, but there was a basketball jersey, you know, and my future and forever. And then Rachel was like, you know, all I see in my life at this moment is you. I'm like, bruh, you know me for eight weeks. I could be a mass murder.

I could be a serial killer. Like, not a serial killer, but it's like, there's no way. Like, in my mind, you don't know me. So how can you say that I couldn't imagine my life without you? Like, to me, if it was me and I'm a competitor, it's like, I'm going to say what I need to say to win. So what do I need to say to win this guy's heart? And if I need to say that I can't imagine my life without you, then I'll say it. If I need to, you know, say that, hey, I got these jerseys and Mrs. James and Mr. James, then I'll say it.

I just, it just wasn't registering to me that there's no way that y'all could just be madly in love with this dude. Like, and I'm sure Bachelorette is the same way. There's no way these dudes can be madly in love with this guy. Sam obviously has ever been in the bubble before. Sam, you go in the bubble and you'll understand. But I just need to, I want to talk to you about. Do you think that Matt broke up with Rachel solely because she needs to do work on her own? Do you feel like that is truly the reason that they broke up?

Just based on what you saw last night. Yeah. So based on what I saw last, based on what I heard, I heard him say, I heard him say like the work, you need to do some of that work on your own. That was what I heard. And I was like, okay, I can respect that, right? Because I think sometimes in relationship, it's easy to say, oh, I'm going to change and do all these things. but just so I can win. I want to win.

I want to win your heart. So like I heard him say, I need you to do some of that work on your own, which makes sense. But to the other piece as well, like I think that there needs to, because I have a ton of friends in interracial relationships.

You know, even my brother, he had Jamie and Aaron Ivy who have kids who are, they're white, but they have kids who are black. And even he had some other couples, Lindsey, Vaughn and P.K. Subban and another couple who were in an interracial relationships.

Oh, Rachel and her, you know, her significant other. And so I think what I know in any, whether it's a relationship or a friendship or even with you're a parent, it's like there needs to be an area of understanding and willingness to learn, right? Not just to say I'm willing to learn, but to actually be willing to learn, right? Even with a friendship, right? Ben hit me up about the thing, you know, hey, with Chris a month ago or a month ago, I don't know.

And I never watched a show. I was like, hey, this is my friend. Let me like, let me learn. And I'm over here watching extra and watching things where there are any of you. You know what I mean? Because I wanted to learn because he's my friend. And so some people have that.

Some people develop that. And then some people are like, I don't really care so much about that. I don't know, like I said, I haven't, I don't even know if Rachel is on social media, right? I don't know what she said or hasn't said or posted, tweeted, or whatever.

And so I really can't speak to that. But I do know in any relationship or friendship or anything, it's like, hey, I want to learn about you. And I'm willing to learn about whether it's your being black in America or, hey, how is it being a woman in America? Or how is it being a celebrity? Right? Like, I don't know, Ashley said you're married, right?

I don't know if you met your, you said you met your husband on the show. But it's like, let's say you met somebody who wasn't on the show. Like, I would hope that they would say, like, hey, like, I don't know what this world is like, but I want to learn. I want to, I want to learn more. And so, so anyways, I can't speak to what he said because I don't know if she, has taken those steps but you have people have to take steps to learn about other people well you know we sit in a place and now though it's it's super interesting so we watch last night's episode i want to get

your overarching thoughts uh because we only have a few minutes left with you um your overarching thoughts on how last night went like with the conversations that your brother was able to kind of facilitate um what you saw on the show do you believe i guess to ask the question to help it make it easiest to answer. Did you find that last night's episode was helpful or was it hurtful? I thought it was extremely helpful. Just from the perspective of someone, I got to come from my perspective. Because I'm not like in the nation or whatever.

So like from somebody who had been hearing about these controversies, I thought it was extremely helpful, number one, for Michelle. to address Matt on the piece of, because I caught that, like, hey, whatever, was that comment. He said, it's nice to hear. I'm glad you think that way or whatever that comment is. Like, hey, dude, like, what was the comment? Do you remember what it was? Thank you for sharing? Thank you for sharing. Right. Like, it's like, hey, man, like, guys, we got to like actually like speak up or listen or so. It's not just like, okay, well, thank you for sharing. Right. So I thought that was interesting on that piece. But from the racial reconciliation piece, I thought it was phenomenal because Matt shared his heart,

racial shared her heart and Emmanuel was asking hard questions that a lot of people may not have been ready or willing to ask, right? Because you say, well, okay, maybe Chris, somebody, like, there could have been somebody else who hosted the show and that person probably would have been having those conversations. So, like, from my perspective, and even now, right, actually like, okay, for Matt to be like, hey, don't understand my black, not understanding my blackness, like, let's talk about it. Like, these are things that people haven't talked about. So let's talk about it because there is a deal about being black being a black man in america and that's like a real thing but also as ben can attest you i had annie on him and annie on my podcast earlier the athletes for

justice podcast and i didn't realize that annie down just this phenomenal woman uh she's a she's a phenomenal woman she's a podcaster new york times bestselling author amazing but she had some of the same fears that i have so i was like oh wow because we were willing to go there and have those conversations Yes, Annie, whoever else understand my blackness, but let me understand your womanness. Let me understand that because that's a real thing, Ashley. Like, I don't know, like, I'm not sure what college you went to, but like, like, rape culture is real.

Like, so I literally will be on campus and we'll see when I was in college, even now walking about, we'll see a young woman like walking. And like, in my mind, I'm like, oh, dude, like, I be scared. Because I'm like, dude, what if some random dude comes in, like does something you know and that's a real thing so in the same way like as a black man like driving like and then we talked about this on the on the podcast like I have a fear of like driving at night by myself because I'm like if I get pulled over by the wrong cop who's in the wrong mood and maybe he has maybe he's racist maybe he's racially insensitive maybe he's just scared but I am

in danger I'm 32 year old black man this 30 something year old white one woman has that same fear. And so I think that I thought yesterday's episode was phenomenal because we were able to have these conversations that many people are not willing to have. And now we're able to ask the questions and really go deeper when I don't think anyone else, I don't think anyone else was fit for that conversation. You know, it's interesting you bring up that podcast. I remember Annie talking about putting her keys between between her fingers to walk to her car and how I learned that when she said it, right? I had no clue.

That's not a part of my life. And I have to admit to that. Like, that's not a thing I worry about. It's also not a thing I worry about to drive at night. Like, that's something, but it's helpful to have two friends sitting there telling me this so that we can start to get a better. And I can start to get a better understanding of what your lives look like, like what it is that goes on. Because ultimately, like you said, when you bring into relationships, when you go into relationship with people, you want to start learning about them. That's the thing. That's what the cool part about relationships is. Now, my question, and this is going to be, it's not a good question, but the conversation is now started as we finish up with the last minute here. How do we continue the conversations in a healthy way from here? Like we've started these conversations, let's say a month ago when this interview came out, right? You and I both know Chris behind the scenes has continued these conversations with people that we know. And now, you know, your brother sits on after.

for the final rose last night. Everybody starts talking about this. How do we not let it stop here? How do we not say, how do we move forward? So it feels like we're just jumping to the end point and saying, okay, it's all good now, right? Like, everybody can come back and we're like going to celebrate and have fun. No, like, how do we do this in a healthy way step by step to make sure that the change is needed and done? We have to be willing to be open and not take sides.

It's easy when you see someone like, Rachel, to no matter what the scenario is, just to take her side. And I get that because it's also easy to see someone like Matt and no matter what the situation is to take his side. And I think we have to be willing to like open up our fists, like that we have clenched up ready to pick aside and fight this battle and literally listing. Like my dad would say, listen, he's from Nigeria, listen to me. listen like literally listen because i think when you listen you have the ability to learn

and like that's like a heart thing because even as sometimes we as you talk about these issues your heart starts to feel a little bit like hot like man what like i'm ready to go ready to fight for my friend or whatever but it's like what if you could be in someone's corner but still love them through it not cancel but like imagine like a boxing ring, right? Someone's in a, someone actually is in the fight trying to win the fight. Like, what if we could be in their corner and say, like, if you're in the corner and they're not punching, we're going to say, hey, here's a better way to punch. Or hey, you got to like dodge a little bit. Hey, rest a little bit. As opposed to like jumping in the ring with him and swing

and we'd be disqualified. It's like, what, but you got to speak truth to the guy who's in the fight. I think that's what I was trying to say, Ben, we first thought, like, hey, like, what if there's a way to speak truth to your friend? So he doesn't get beat up. You know what I mean so my final question goes off that um Matt says that you know he wants rachel to educate herself and your your brother asked if there was any chance for reconciliation down the road after she's done that work he didn't seem super enthusiastic about that chance do you feel that matt is somebody who is ready for a relationship seeing the three hours that you did yesterday?

Hmm. Well, I saw like an hour and a half because I cut the last of your wrist. Okay, the hour and a half. Yeah, I think short answer to no. Just the little time that I saw of like, hey, I think you should, and I don't know how old he is,

but I think he's still trying to figure out life, you know? You know, but also, like, how does somebody do that in eight weeks? Yeah. Like, how do you get ready for a relationship in eight weeks? It's impossible. And that is not, it's rare. It's rare. You know what? We saw a lot last night. There's a lot of, the thing that I love most about this show is when the show hits reality and we're seeing Matt grow, which, hey, that's not a bad thing, right? Like I, you know, all of us have grown just by living another day. We saw your brother host, I would say, tremendously well. Like, just as good as what I could have even imagined. I watched it.

on the edge of my sea I was you know I was learning he was he was sensitive he also like I mean outside of everything else like the dude really played up this bachelor hosting role like he let people sit in silence and he was like you can embrace now and he just sat there and like in the awkwardness like he really he owned it last night um Sam you're you're the greatest man I appreciate you a lot and I really appreciate you coming on here to the almost famous podcast this this is something super special for Ashley and I. Before we let you go, I do just want to mention one more time. Your book, Let the World See You, is an incredible book. If you've loved listened to the same, you're going to love his book even more. Go out, check it out, purchase it. Sam, thanks for

spending some time with us today. Thank you for being there for this podcast, and we'll be talking really soon, buddy. Thank you so much. Bye, Sam. Hey, happy 17th anniversary. Also, that's a big deal. you just celebrated it um awesome thing so uh yeah you're just you're the best dude thank you i appreciate it dude bye awesome hey sam um man thank you for coming on i know it's we kept you a little longer than you you wanted but um but just thanks buddy no thank you do thanks for thinking of me and i literally like i think you text me right around as i was going to that trip like you got to go you got to go because it's going to be like water for your soul yeah so i'm gonna i'm gonna yeah i have a couple things. I want to talk to you about that. I want to talk to you about that of Annie's

deal. So, yeah, I'll call you, sir. Yeah, hit me up. All right, buddy. Bye. It's another week, which means another session of Bachelor headlines. There are many. We're going to talk about them. Ashley, you're our resident expert. So here we go. Chris Harrison, not returning to The Bachelorette next season, Tasia Adams and Caitlin Bristow, to co-host this according to people. All right. Well, if Chris isn't coming back, These girls, in my opinion, will do a dandy job filling in for him. We know that you guys know that we are huge fans of these two ladies. Like, how much did I fan girl over Tasha during her season?

And Caitlin has been a friend of ours for years. This is very exciting for the two of them. And I do think that there'll be great support systems for at least Katie, who we know they're doing Katie's season throughout this. it's going to be nice to have like two girls to like kind of lead them that lead them with advice throughout the process. Actually, I'm going to pause headlines here and ask you a question that I think a lot of people are wondering, especially myself. Maybe I'm the only one wondering of this. Why do you, okay, how is this going to work? So they have Katie and Michelle both

announced as bacheloretts. It's not going to be the Caitlin Britt situation where they have to pick and choose. It's going to be two separate seasons. So it's great. So explain this to me in a few minutes as short as you can why they chose to do two bachelorette seasons which means i'm assuming they're not doing a paradise i'm making these assumptions tell me when i'm wrong no tell me what i'm wrong in right here uh two bachelorette scenes is not doing a paradise season who knows when the bachelor season's happening kately and tasha around for both so this means they're like working for the next six months straight just just help me understand what is going on okay well the little slice that we got from them last night on stage definitely didn't explain everything in

in the best way their Instagram did the explaining so first we're going to have Katie in the summer spring whatever you want to call it and then we're going to have Michelle's season in the fall but I believe that Paradise will be smushed in there and so yes production will be working absolutely nonstop from now because they start filming Katie's season this week until early December, literally filming every single month because it'll be March and April and a little early May with Katie. Then they'll jump into Paradise and do a full June shoot.

Then they'll be shooting July and August, Michelle's season. And then they'll be doing The Bachelor in its normal September through November spot. Why are they doing it this way? Like why two Bachelorette seasons back to back? I guess they wanted these two girls to both have opportunities. So they're doing it like this. Right. I mean, there are rumors out there.

Should I address rumors? I mean, no. I mean, yeah, let's, what are the rumors? What are you hearing? The rumor is that they want the rumor, okay, you guys, rumor, rumor, rumor is that they wanted Michelle to be the bachelorette, but she is committed to teaching throughout the rest of the school year. So they thought they would film with Katie during their normal time slot and then,

then create a new time slot for Michelle. That makes sense. I mean, hey, good on Michelle for keeping with her commitment to teach. I think it's amazing if that is true. If that's true. It's at least an idea. All right, Ashley. So final rumor, and you just have to help me understand this,

if they are going to do a paradise, and I would assume now because they've already said that Caitlin and Tasia are going to be the host for the Bachelorette's, that Chris Harrison is not going to be around for those, then what happens with paradise? I don't know. We have no clue. Okay.

No, we don't. Speaking of Chris Harrison, the Bachelorette co-host, Tasia Adams, spoke with Chris Harrison about replacing him. Her quote is, according to us weekly, he was so kind. Oh, well, that's nice to hear. Tasia talks about how, you know, she's so honored to be given this opportunity. She said that I talked to Chris the other day, and he was so kind and congratulated me for being part of the next season. It meant the world. With that being said, y'all, let's freaking go.

Well, obviously there's going to be a lot around Tasha and Caitlin that we'll be talking about. I mean, I feel like we've talked about Caitlin and Tasia for a long time. I mean, Tasia is the last Bachelorette and Caitlin with Dancing with the Stars. I mean, why not just continue to talk about them as they, they're not calling it hosting. They're guiding, supporting the bachelor's through the process. It's going to be interesting to see how that looks. Well, speaking to Tasia, fans were starting rumors that Tasia and Zach broke up, which would break my heart if it did happen because she was seen without her ring, but she went on IG Instagram

for all those out there Monday, March 15th morning stating what the ring, why the ring wasn't on our finger. What's going on, Ashley? Well, she was like, first guys, you were looking at my right hand. So you were messed up about that in the first place. But the truth of the matter is I didn't even have my ring on my left hand because I finally went out to L.A. I went to Niel Lane's store. They are cleaning it and sizing it because this thing has felt like it's going to fall off my finger for months now. Well, good for her then. That's an expensive ring. And not only do you to get it insured, you also have to get it resized. I would say the idea that she's getting it resized is a good sign for their relationship. She's seeing this thing as a long-term commitment, which, hey, I'm pumped

about. I really like them together. too. Another big rumor in the relationship category. Claire Crawley and Dale Moss ruled out a long-term future together after reunion. This according to E-News. Ashley, I'm really interested here to hear what you think. Why do they get back together in Florida? And then why are they ruling everything out? Okay. Well, I really don't know, but a source apparently does. This is a source to E-News says at this point in time Claire and Dale aren't getting back together despite the fact that they did spend that week of February 16. together hand in hand walking around the pool in Florida it says the source says they want to be friends they do want to see each other but I don't think they have a long-term future together

Claire is trying to move on but she's still in contact with Dale um Dale had regretted everything that happened between him and Claire and has been reaching out to her recently she finally caved and decided to answer his calls and talk it out which I think led to the Florida trip, but she's been trying to move on, and it's been very hard, but she did want to see him in person to have that conversation. So that's why she flew to Florida. So for all of you Bachelor Nation fans out there, there's a little clarity about that relationship. Well, Ashley, that's all the headlines we have for you today. That's our podcast. It's another season in the books. Now, one that will remember forever, that we're all going to continue to learn and

grow from. Conversations have been started, as Sam Acho said. Ashley I, Almost Famous Podcasts on IHartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. There's been a lot of changes in the Bachelor world over the last few months. But we hope here at the Almost Famous Podcasts that will all be better for them, that will learn and grow together. But Ashley, hey, we did it. One more season of the books, but we're going to be back starting up, it sounds like pretty soon, with another Bachelorette season and talking about everything, Bachelor Headlines from here on now. We're going to bring on some awesome guests, aren't we along? the way we sure are you know this is in-depth season for us so we we get very excited yeah it's

really fun for us bet and i feel very fulfilled by that yeah it is well ashley uh we'll talk next time we'll be back next week thanks for listening to us uh this has been the almost famous podcast and i've been ben signing off i've been ashley later guys bye hi my name is enya umanzor and i'm drew phillips and we run a podcast called emergency intercom If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.

This is Wisecrack. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's Heather with the weather. Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now, let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands.

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Monica Patton, Elaine Welteroff. Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Listen to these women and more on She Pivots. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in to All the Smoke Podcast, where Matt and Stacks sit down with former first lady, Michelle Obama. Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people, you're sitting in their kitchen tables, and they're talking like we're talking. You know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack grew up.

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