The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - The Long Game

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

Kendall Long is Ashley’s guest cohost! Find out why she might be done with The Bachelor franchise… forever! We hear the REAL reason why she and Grocery Store Joe broke up.  And she reveals that there might be a new love in her life. And DeVon Franklin holds nothing back when he shares his thoughts on how Matt James’ season ended. Find out why he thinks Matt is a “shell of who he was”.Plus, Katie’s season of The Bachelorette wrapped early! What does that mean?? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble.

Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your... free iHeart radio app search emergency intercom and listen now hi i'm jonica lopez and in the new season of the over comfort podcast i'm even more honest more vulnerable and more real than ever am i ready to enter this new part of my life like am i ready to be in a relationship am i ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time join me for conversations about healing and growth all from one of my favorite spaces the kitchen listen to the new season of the overcombered podcast on the iHeart

app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcast. The Super Secret

Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up.

Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No thank you.

Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses. Like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic. workplace. I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with Iheart Radio. Hey, guys, welcome to the almost famous podcast. Ben is out this week. So that means I have a co-host. Let me give you some hints. Okay. She's blonde. She has blue eyes. She has made two appearances on the Bachelor

franchise and she has a twin okay you have you have five seconds to guess who it is until they introduce themselves one two three four five who are you mystery co-host well I was thinking that everyone's going to think it was the other twins but Kendall oh my goodness look at how shady I was there that was that wasn't even on purpose and yet it could apply I guess it couldn't really apply to them because I think they've done three seasons I think the twins came together on two seasons of paradise and one of which they were kind of annoyed because they went in on the last week that would be it's always difficult to go in the last week I feel oh yes for sure for sure you're playing catch up well we're going to talk to you

about paradise in a second but you know I have to build to that so Kendall what have you been up to since the last time we talked to you you had a book come out It was, man, has that book almost been out for a year? Oh, dang. Just Curious? A notebook of questions. Yes. That's actually really insane.

I don't even think about it. It's my author anniversary coming up. No, I think it's coming up in, it launched in November. Oh, wow. I was totally off. Okay. So you've been talking about, I was in production, I think, of actually making it happen. Okay, great.

Yeah. So there you go. You've been an official author for six months. You came out with a book called Just Curious. a notebook of questions, which is so fun. I love a bunch of random thought-provoking questions to ask at a dinner with people that you like have dinner with all the time, like with your family or like your best friends. You're like, man, like, what should we talk about that is a different? And like this book can do it so well. So you want to ask a question or two to start this podcast off?

Yeah, that sounds fun. Let me think, obviously, I didn't prepare questions before, but let me think of an interesting one that I haven't talked about yet. Okay, because like we do host chat and this would be like a great host chat. Ooh, let me think of one. Um, I'm like, I wish I had like a whole list of them on me right now so I can just like, or if I should have a book on me right now, I can just open to a random page. Um, but let's see. Ooh, uh, one that I like asking. So I think it causes people to get a little bit uncomfortable depending on your vulnerability. But I love asking when was the last time you cried. Oh, well, look at that. It's a very appropriate question for me. Yes. Um, okay. Well, it's good that I can't really think about it. Uh, that can't, like,

doesn't come to the top of my head. Happy tears count too. Okay. Well, I mean, last night I got choked up. Like, I felt like I was on the verge of tears because Maria Manunos's mom died. Um, and I've just, like, I've always been a fan of Maria. She's, She's such an idol to me, and I've just been following her mom's journey, and her mom has had brain cancer for a while. I think she went into remission, and then she ended up getting an advanced brain tumor, I think, re-diagnosed about six months ago, and she passed away yesterday, and I had, like, all that heavy heart and, like, the closed throat and, like, the welled up eyes. I didn't actually cry, but that's kind of like the last time I felt emotion like that, which was, you know, all of 12 hours. hours ago. So that makes very much sense for me. What about you? Yeah, that's, that's heartbreaking. But for me, it was, I had like a little petty fight with my brother about something random. And I

cried then. I feel like I cry easier and easier, the older that I get. Really? It's the opposite for me, which is, well, really good. But that probably just means that I cry an inappropriate amount of this age. As long as really getting it out there. I, I, I, heard that when you cry, there's a chemical that's released. That's a, like, a pain killer. Oh, yeah. It feels good to cry. Oh, that's awesome. I mean, like, that makes, that makes total sense. That's why people say, I needed a good cry, right? Yeah, because then you're, like, filled up with all these endorphins. You're like, yes, it's like a little cry high. Right. So, Kendall, you are still living in L.A. That is where you're from. You have a wonderful poochie. And

Are you still doing set design? No, I don't, yeah, I don't do creative directing your set design anymore. Yeah, either maybe for like friends' birthday parties or like baby gender reveals or something. But I've been gone in depth in set design for a while. Okay, okay. So tell us an average day in the Kendall life. Well, right now I'm in Austin exploring here. I have a friend that might potentially move here.

Wait a second. You have a friend that may predict? potentially move there or you may planentially move there not me uh my friend yeah so i'm here for emotional support with that um but covid's still very much the thing so i'm kind of slowly branching out or feeling more comfortable in traveling and doing stuff like that um but daily life i hang out with pistachio he wakes me up at like 7 730 a m every morning he's an early riser oh no that's too early oh it's way too early but he he's just like breakfast is at this time it must happen and so we do that um do some work like e-no's on my computer from home

or if i can go to a cafe or a park i love working at the park um and then you know it's in l.A i mean it's pretty it's pretty chill nothing too crazy happening right now so have you been on dates since you broke up with joe over a year ago now so has there been anyone of note there uh i have but on dates Yeah, I'll say that. It's hard to, I mean, dating in L.A. in general is difficult, but I've definitely put myself out there. And I've been very open to it. And I've had some, I've had some good dates. Yeah, there's some good good vibes about that.

Good, good. We'll see. We'll see. So is there somebody that you've gone on multiple dates with that like it's still going to possibly be more dates with? Yeah, I would say that. I've gone on a couple dates with somebody. And, you know, I'm down to go on more dates. um yeah okay that's great that's great news is there anything from your relationship with joe that

you learn from that now you look for in men that you wouldn't have prior yeah i mean i learned so much from that relationship i feel like that was the relationship i just threw so much trust in and um right off the bat which is completely honest and open and i think that really expedited the relationship in a lot of ways. And it was the first relationship I actually saw potentially turning into a marriage. So that was something very new for me. So I think I'm able to recognize that a little bit more moving forward. So, yeah, I mean, it was just a gift to be able to experience that from him.

And so I think every single person that I date, I'm like looking for that next level of connection. Gotcha. So Paradise is coming up. So I would be not a very good bachelor. podcast host, if I didn't ask you if you'd be open to going to Paradise? I'm not sure. I mean, there's so many people who have been on the show who never had a there was no Paradise last season. There's a lot of, a lot of, there's a minimal amount of

spots and a lot of competition for them. Oh, oh yeah, they will be blood. People have seen enough of me, I think. So I don't know if that's something that, I want to have, I want someone else to be able to experience like falling in love in that way because it is so amazing. And you can't really experience it anywhere else. So I feel like there's just so many amazing women who, you know, are deserving of that. That is so kind and generous of you. Seriously. How selfless of you. No, I think it's like my choice. I'm like, oh, I bestow my gift of my paradise. No, it's not even. Oh my gosh. Well, I don't know. I could totally see them wanting to do something with you and Joe the way that they did with me and Jared.

it's just like a storyline that I think the audience is still rooting for and they would love to seem more of. Yeah. Like, how could you imagine yourself there if Joe was there as well? I would not want to watch him fall in love with someone else. Definitely not. I mean, that would just, that would suck so much. But I want him to be happy.

Like, I want him to find love. Not in front of my face. Okay. I mean, I don't know. I'm just so thankful that you said that would suck and you would. and you didn't just say that you'd want him to be happy because like you need to be honest in this and it would suck and that would be horrible.

Do you think that at all like an experience like that could get you guys together or do you think that that door is completely shut? I think that there'd be a few things that would have to happen in order for me to see or both of us probably to see a future. I think that our end goal is very different. And so unless you shifts that, I mean, I don't know. Joe's so great.

I think there's been so much time since our relationship that it'd be really interesting to see like what that would look like if that's even possible. But I still have a tremendous amount of love for him. You know, he's, yeah. If you found out that he was going and they also asked you, would that deter you from going? It might, yeah, just because I feel like, yeah, it would just be really difficult. And he had mentioned before, I think, in another podcast that there were girls that he was interested in that were in past seasons. So I'm like, well, if he's going on there with like

someone in mind, I don't necessarily know if I have anyone in mind, you know, that I would go on there for. So, yeah, that would, I'd just be like signing up for another heartbreak, which would, it doesn't sound logical, but, you know, love's not logical. So. True. In hindsight, like our audience, I don't know if they remember, but like to me, at least, it sounded like you guys really did break up because of location. Like he needed to be in Chicago and you just said, no, I'm staying in L.A. with my family. And I completely get it. Like, Jared just, it's kind of like it's, I don't know if it's a joke sometimes. But he was like, if you, if I knew that long term, we may not have ended up back in Rhode Island, it would have been like a harder commitment for me. Because he loves his state and he just thrives by his friends and family. He's a, he's a totally different person here. I mean, I think I still think we would be together. I know we would still be together if I wasn't cool with it.

But I know the relationship would be more difficult if I was not down to be in Rhode Island. So in hindsight, now that you've had like a year and a half removed, what do you think the crux of your issues were? I think it definitely was. I mean, where you are is your life, you know, how you spend every single day. I would love more than just one person. and you know you have your partner and that's amazing um that's not your entire life like i've my friends and family who i'm extremely close to have a twin sister she's like literally part of my body yeah no i love that because i don't know if i told you this last time you're on the podcast

but you once told me that you're i don't know if you told me you told the whole public that you thought that your sister was your soulmate and then after hearing that i was like i think my sister is my soulmate too like even more so that i would call jared like i think jared is my perfect destined person for sure romantically and as a life partner but my sister when it comes to the word soulmate like soul connection like she can read like we just communicate in a way that i don't think it would be possible for anybody else oh exactly exactly and i mean i lived the longest i've ever lived away from my sister was six months and i lived in san francisco she lived in l.a and that wasn't even that big a good traveling distance so imagine like los angeles

Chicago I guess just you know a world away yeah not really but um but yeah so and I also I want to have a family I want to you know have children and I envision my family being a huge support in that um so I guess that was just I never envisioned leaving L.A and I never thought that you know Joe would want to leave L.A. I was just something that we couldn't compromise on and his family and friends are amazing so he's like very much in the same boat as I am with that so yeah we just couldn't figure it out. And I think that's almost the hardest way to break up, you know, because it's not about any. There's nothing like fundamentally wrong with our relationship. So it's weird to think you can definitely fall in love with more than one person and, you know,

many different ways, many different places. So yeah. It's kind of like people who want to have kids or don't want to have kids because we were talking about this on Jared's podcast the other day. Help I suck a dating. Little side plug there. But there are like couples where like they'll be perfect in every single way, completely compatible, but it's like one wants kids and one does not want kids. And they're both so firm and their decisions on that that it just cannot happen. They can't be together. It's kind of like you guys with location. Exactly. Exactly. There's a couple deal breakers, you know. And not all of them mean that the other person's a bad person. Right. Or not the person for you. It's just right. Right. All right. Let's move on to Bachelor. headlines, guys. Kendall's going to stick around for this and our upcoming interview with our beloved Devon Franklin. Devon Franklin was on to talk about Chris Harrison in February, I believe, and he was such a wonderful guest. And he's here to talk about his new book. We're going to talk about relationships with him and some hot topics in Bachelor Nation, like the fact that Matt James

and Rachel Kirkconnell or Kirkconnell? I'm going to keep calling it to Kirkconnell. They are back together. But first, we have a word from our sponsors. Hi, my name is Enya Humanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD, oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness. And Psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you.

Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do

my eyes close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, no such thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the I'm looking at this thing, see? Listen to no such thing on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hola, it's HoneyGerman, and my podcast Grasasas Come Again is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment, with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25

years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters, sharing their real stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vivras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles,

and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. Yeah. But the whole pretending and cold, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance, bro, tell you how to manage your money again. Welcome to Brown ambition.

This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking. up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets.

I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt when it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez. And in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection.

Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort.

It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomper podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, guys, welcome back to Bachelor headlines. Kendall, have you been keeping up with the hot topic as in Bachelor Nation? Have you been watching the seasons? I have been watching the seasons.

in terms of like all the breaking news and who's dating who's not dating I do hear like a little bit but I'm not so in it I'm sure you'll be able to follow along so I will be reading the headlines and the bullet points and if you've got something an opinion that you're just burning to talk about please do all right our first headline is Matt James says he's pursuing a relationship with ex Rachel Kirkconnell he says I'm focusing on it so he says I've seen Rachel a hand handful of times he confirmed this to People magazine while discussing a partnership with Dick's sporting goods. Lucky him.

He says he's not pursuing any relationships right now outside of that. I said I was going to focus on my relationship with her and that means focusing on it. He also said when asked about whether she's doing the work that she promised to put in in regarding to educating herself about racism, he says that's something you could talk to her about. out. He says a lot of what I'm focused on right now is the work that I'm doing in the community and with the marathon that he's training for. Um, he also said that there will be no chance that he

or Tyler Cameron will be on Bachelor in Paradise. And I know that would be a bloodshed. Oh my God. I mean, like I'm pretty sure I knew Matt wasn't going to be doing Paradise. Uh, and Tyler I would also think would not be doing it either but I mean I'm sure that disappoints many ladies there okay let's get to like the crux of this he is seeing Rachel so he's dating Rachel this is uh in my opinion I think this is great I think that there is a lot of love there and I'm just wondering like this is what I talked about on help I suck a dating a couple days ago this is the same headline we went through I just have to be a little bit honest it kind of feels I have to be careful with my words here,

but it kind of feels like he threw her onto the bus a little bit during after the final rose. Like he kind of honestly seemed so over her. Like he couldn't even look her in the eyes. He couldn't even hug her. And yet here we are six weeks later and he's dating her again. So was that just for looks? Was that just for show that he just seemed repulsed by her?

like he would never give her another chance. I remember getting on here with Emmanuel Ocho's brother the day after. And he was like, oh, there's not a chance that those two get back together. But now we saw them together on a date in New York City four weeks after that finale episode. So, I mean, what do you feel about the authenticity of Matt showing his emotions to the public? It's difficult because I feel like they have so many conversations that we are not aware of. but we don't have a little sneak peek into. So I'm sure they've excessively talked about it.

And it's difficult when there are a lot of opinions coming in from different people that don't know what you're talking about, that don't know the work that's being put in necessarily. And I also have to think like the heart wants what it wants, right? So I feel like if that he genuinely has care for her and she genuinely has care for him, then it's very difficult not to explore that

and not to give it a chance. I almost feel like with love, sometimes it's not voluntary you know you so badly don't want to do something or feel like it's not good for you or it's not right but you know we make that call or we text or we go on another date and I'm not saying this is a situation with them because I haven't heard their conversations or anything and I do genuinely think that she has an open heart just from everything that I've seen but if there's genuine love there then I don't know I'm always a champion of that same you know people giving it a chance me too it's between them you know yeah and

exploring it to the utmost honestly like yeah don't have any curiosity there i'm always that person it's if you feel like there's curiosity left in the relationship buy the plane ticket go on that date you know exhaust it because you don't want to live life and regret thank you that's what i always say seriously burn it out because at the end of the day you may want to be like oh no no i want to see i want to play it cool like i just want him to think of me like i was just like chill cool girl no that's not going to get you anywhere emotionally and mentally in the long run and then you're always going to be thinking of that person and that is going to be very bad for your future relationships oh yeah i don't want to look back and feel like i regretted not giving something a chance yes so looks like rachel and

matt are doing that now let's now matt this is a perfect transition over to from matt season to katy season Matt says that Katie Thurson will be the best to ever do it. He says this, she's incredible, she's going to do so well. I'm excited for her to have this space to find her person. He says, I think she's going to be one of the best to ever do it. And it's not going to be a surprise to me as we watch everyone across the country fall in love with her. Well, those are very sweet words from Matt James.

interesting to lead that headline into the next headline because we can do so much speculation here Katie's season wrapped ahead of schedule and quote she was in control a source, an exclusive source tells us weekly that Katie was in control and made sure the men she wanted were there

and the men she wasn't interested in she sent them packing. Okay, okay. what's different from that from any other bachelorette apparently it went great and they wrapped a week ahead of schedule they also said that tasha and katelyn were able to help kitty along with this journey and um it was just fun and they were a great team uh kately and tasha okay um wrapping a week early do you think that that is a good thing or a bad thing i think it probably means that there was enough drama to sustain an entire season. So maybe there was just like a lot that happened. I mean, I mind boggled. I think that it may not have been

even a whole five weeks that they were filming. And I guess like when you cut out travel that like naturally cuts out weeks. That's so weird. So it's only, it wasn't even five weeks because I'm thinking when she left. It was like three months. It's like three months of filming.

That's just a lot. Normally it could be. nine weeks, I believe. And then with her, it was it was definitely less than six weeks. I want to say it was just about five. That's fast as a fast turnaround. It's not much different

than Claire and Tasha's season. But I'm just wondering, like, could it mean that multiple people left that they didn't have as many? There's chopping locks. Like, did she eliminate a lot of guys? Yes. Did she eliminate a lot of guys

leave? Judging by how it was discussed, it seems like she got rid of people. Yeah. A lot. So it's like she was in control, which makes me think that she was like, bang, bang, bang, you're out. I know who I won. I would actually be, when I first saw that, I was curious to think, what if she got rid of a bunch of guys in the beginning?

And so there was just more time for a smaller amount of men, which I think would be really interesting. I mean, hey, that's a twist we've never had that I would love so so much. that. And we can get to know the guys so much more. Like, I feel like with Matt James' this season, there were so many girls coming in that I felt like I didn't get to know all of them at a more personal level until a lot later. Yeah. So I would like to see maybe some men shine more, like the ones that she actually has genuine connections with. Like, maybe even like, there's like five for a couple weeks. Like, I don't know. I just think that

be really fun. I think that would be so good. People will get so attached to those characters. And it's those kind of bonds that the audience develops. that makes us live for Monday nights. And I felt like I got that with Tasha's season. Yeah, like multiple one-on-one dates, you know? Yes. I think that would be so rewarding. And I think it just shows so much more of their personality.

And again, like you said, like there's just much more investment in those relationships. Yes, yes, yes. And the heartbreaks would be that much more devastating. Which is horrible for the men. I know. But very good TV for us. Oh, it's important that at least one good heartbreak. in your life, you know?

I agree. Yeah, I love heartbreak. It's like, hurt me, dang it. Yes, but no. Like, can we? Yes, but no. There is beauty in the heartbreak, and you don't really notice it

or appreciate it until you, I think, are happy with somebody else. And then you can look back on heartbreak fondly, which is bizarre, but that's the way it was for me. No, I agree with that. But then also I feel like you're allowing yourself, to feel so strongly for somebody and that's cool to know that you're capable of getting there you know like my recent heart like recent heartbreaks that I've had I'm like oh man it's just

so cool that I was able to love someone that intensely and I mean hopefully there's someone in the future but I but yeah you know you're right like initially right off right after a heartbreak it's like this is the worst ever and I hate it but yeah all right let's get back to some katie headlines there Katie posted to Instagram for the first time she was she was talking about how she got her vaccine. She also joked this week about her family searching for a ring after the Bachelorette season wrapped. I guess her family. Okay, she says, my family, this is my family searching for a ring.

She was, yeah, I guess the family was just joking about like, you know, like, does she have it on her or anything like that? Because she doesn't get to go home with the ring. Um, wasn't it Tasha that lost her ring in the sand or something? What? I don't remember this. What? Wasn't there? Oh, never mind.

Is that somebody else? It was like a different reality show or something where someone like lost their engagement ring in the sand and they were like, everyone's on hands and means searching for it. But, uh, never mind. No, I think her family is just like, oh, are you engaged? Are you engaged? And then they, they were trying to find the ring. Can't find the ring because guess what? It's not, it's not in her hands.

Yeah. Okay. I see. I see. as if like, oh, it's in her luggage or something, but yeah. Would that be the first engagement off of the show in a couple of seasons if she does end getting engaged, right? Or maybe there was because Matt James didn't.

Well, Tasia got engaged. You're right. And so to Claire. So. Oh, never mind. I'm so up to date with this stuff. It's okay. It's okay.

It seems like a long time ago. So Caitlin Bristow got on her podcast this week. And she said that being part of Katie. Thurston season actually brought up some trauma. So she got on her podcast and she said a lot of people are asking how I'm feeling. They know I took a social media break for a couple days. I was very overwhelmed. I think it was such a perfect storm in a breeding ground for anxiety or anxiety because I was truly back in a world of, you know, I'm happy to be part of this Bachelor show, but I didn't realize how much it had brought up some either trauma or anxiety that I may not have dealt with as much. as I thought I had. She doesn't share specifics, but she did say my hormones are out of control. I'm in New Mexico where I swear the altitude and the dryness and the hotel food was just getting to me.

I mean, yeah, I can imagine that. Whenever you step foot, like, I've been to The Bachelor Mansion a couple times. Really only have fond memories there. But, like, going back to Paradise, just like being at the same location where so many feelings unfolded and being with a lot of the same producers who you confided in during those moments bring up so much nostalgia and you can just place yourself right back to where you were. It's kind of wild. I can't imagine how that would have been for her.

It's a little time capsule of emotions I can imagine like with every, because I feel like there's those certain stages of getting to know somebody and then having to battle between maybe loving more than one person and then getting engaged. like I can see that bringing up a lot for her. And then you kind of start thinking about people of your past too. You start thinking about like the guys you dumped and like what it, how would have life would have gone that way if I ended up with that person and blah blah. And for Caitlin, it was probably kind of weird because like when she thinks of that experience,

she probably thinks of Sean, you know, she met Jason through the bachelor, you know, family. But that experience is all about Sean. So she probably ended up thinking about that relationship a lot. And that can always make you feel all sorts of weird. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like you have to kind of go through the breakup again or go through the happy times and then the devastating times as well. Yeah.

But Caitlin also said on Good Morning America this week that it's going to be really fun. Tasha and her had a really, really fun time being there. They love Katie. She said, I'm definitely not going to say much because I don't want to get in trouble. But I can say it might be. Oh, she says maybe I can say it's the most dramatic season yet. Oh, come on now. Ah, come on now.

I don't know. We've gone through so many dramatic seasons. I actually can't even think of a spin. This is drama in general. I can always picture it like me. Maybe the spin of having less guys, that could be dramatic. That's a great spin, but it actually feels less dramatic. It feels like there would just be more love and less fights amongst.

I don't know. Maybe that would lead to more fights because then the guys would have such a deeper connection with her who the heck knows. Yeah. Well, there's going to be drama regardless. That's what this show is all about. Did you see Caitlin reunite with her dogs, though, after coming back from The Bachelorette? Oh, my gosh.

I can just imagine because she's so, so close to them that it was, I haven't seen the video. I know that they're super close. But she may not allowed to have them on the show? Because I know that a lot of people bring their dogs. Yeah. So she had her dogs there for a while with Jason. I think that they were there half the time.

And then she had, she had been alone half the time. think that they're kind of like her emotional support animals so i'm assuming that would have been hard with them gone as well uh Kendall what the heck did you think last week when uh chris harrison and in lauren zima posted that picture of her in the white dress in black and white oh oh i don't know if i you didn't see it i saw that he posted a picture of her like an appreciation post and he was like more or lovey-dovey than I've seen him. Oh, I. It was very sweet. I was calling everyone saying Chris and Lauren got married. I don't know why I was so convinced of this, but I was not alone. There were a lot of

people speculating that they had gotten married in Texas. It was a black and white picture. Okay, he's in a suit. She is wearing an elegant floor length gown. It looks white. It probably wasn't white because you find out that she was actually a bridesmaid. The caption read, I'd stop the world and met with you at Lauren Zima. Okay, yeah. Yeah. I saw that.

I was thinking, I did think initially like, oh, was there a proposal or something? Okay. But it was definitely like a highlight of like, this is serious. Oh, I have it right now looking at it. Oh, I thought they eloped and I thought it was very romantic. I love if they did that. But they did not do that. she said wow like wait she's

Lauren said I love you so much and appreciate all the congrats but this bridesmaid's dress is really living above its potential so they were actually just dates at one of her friends weddings but maybe one day they will have a wedding of their own I love their relationship yeah yeah me too they're very sweet together Okay, so speaking of weddings, potential weddings, Claire Crawley, guys, is wearing her engagement ring from Dale Moss again. Ah! She posted something, an Insta story, and she's sipping out of a juice box, and she's got her ring on her, is that her left finger?

I saw a screenshot. I think, like, in reverse, is that her left finger? at the picture right now. Yeah, because it does flip. Okay. So, guys, I think it's on the left finger. I did. I saw that. And I was like, that's a really pretty like screen grab. It is. It definitely is her engagement ring. Yay. Good for them. That is so, so happy. We'll talk about this one a little bit later with Devon, but Rachel Lindsay announces that she's leaving the Happy Hour podcast. So we'll talk to you guys about that in a little bit. That doesn't mean the podcast is over she says this podcast is amazing hands with you becca i just feel like this is a place

where i can walk away and i know it's all good i know it's going to be great and you allow me to have the space to step away when i need to and i would listen to the podcast on the side and i'm like oh she's got this i can walk away so i will be supporting you back back up from a distance Rachel is also writing her own A book is coming out She says it It's a personal essay themed book So what does that mean

A personal essay themed book? I think it's well Ones that I've read are They're just a bunch of different topics Okay It's almost like a bunch of little mini books In one book Like little diary entries

But they don't have like a flow to the topic The themes Yes yeah So maybe there could be like one big central theme and a bunch of different stories that make up that theme. But I wouldn't say they're all like one book. Okay, gotcha. So her book is going to be called Miss Me with That. And seriously, like, could Rachel Lindsay conquer more in this world? Like her resume is amazing. She tweeted, she Instagram this week. I've been waiting to share this. So thrilled to finally be able to tell

y'all what I've been working on. I've been working on my first book. Miss me with that. that a collection of personal essays. And we got a while to wait on this one. It comes out January 25th, 2022. She said, I can't wait for it to be in your hands. You all know I won't hold back. I'm telling my story, sharing my experiences, and opening my heart. I don't have to have time for all of that.

I think of it. That's so great. Kendall, I've been thinking about this multiple times. I'm mind boggled by how hard this woman works and how like she must sleep for. hours a night for with all the jobs that she has bravo she's she's incredible yeah let's go into some new couples was the question mark news cassie randoff was seen with boyfriend over the weekend okay so it's a rumored boyfriend his name is brighton reinhart and he she and him were spotted on sunday in huntington beach her hometown and um he looks cute she looks cute she looks

cute i got nothing and much more to say about that but i hope that cassie's happy with this new boy yeah i think it's probably difficult to hear all the news with colton as well and like balancing that with a new relationship like being bombarded with a bunch of things yes 100% let's do a little google search of this brighton reinhart do we think that he's like a celebrity is he like in the hollywood realm uh like her sister's boyfriend or Or could he be just a regular old dude? He doesn't look familiar. I'm looking, I think this is, is this his Instagram?

Or maybe this is a fan Instagram? You never know. I know, I know there is a fan. There's a picture of the two of them together. It's not from either of their Instagrams. But, okay, so he's a musician. He's a producer slash singer-songwriter. He also seems to be a Willamina model.

He has a song out. So part of that world. Part of that world. Cassie, this is, wow, this is a little bit breaking news. 34 minutes ago this came out and we got source quotes now. Okay. The source says she's really happy and she's definitely moved on with her life. They were in Cozumel, Mexico together in April.

Well, it looks like there is a new relationship then. Good for her. Yeah. Wonderful. That's very happy. That's very happy news. All right. Now there's one that may not make many other girls, uh,

who are a part of the Bachelor franchise and possibly headed to Paradise, very happy. There's a picture of Mike Johnson and Abigail getting cozy. They were both in New York City this weekend, and wow, in this picture, guys, Mike kind of has his hand through Abigail's hair. He's got his nose nuzzled up to her cheek ear area. He's whispering a little secret or something. 100%. Where did this photo come from? Was it somebody's story?

Okay, yeah, somebody's Insta story. And they screenshot this. So neither of them posted it. My question here is this. Do they, are they going to date now? Or are they getting ready to date in parody? and they're already coupled off. I'm not sure because I think there were like a couple rumors of who he was potentially

going to date. I know that Piper was really interested in him as well. I heard her saying that he was her crush. And then they all did hang out in New York, but, man, I'm so curious. I mean, what's interesting is that because there's been so much time between other people who could potentially be on Paradise, a lot of past cast, there's been so many rumors with a lot of different people like Bennett apparently asked oh Kelly we we he he he broke that news right here on the podcast oh did he oh my gosh yeah basically you know he said he asked Peter for permission

to date Kelly and it's like well you know how about Kelly gives you her own permission however I think maybe he used the wrong word but he basically just said like Peter would I be ruffling your feathers I think if I were to ask Kelly out because Bennett also made it seem as if if he and Kelly have already been flirting through the DM? That's what I thought when I initially heard that. But then I heard he went on a date with Kit. No, he didn't go on a, nope. He debunked that right here.

He said that they just met as friends. He really feels like their age difference is too significant. Oh, but it's just so interesting to see that there's, like everyone's hanging out. I've seen people, you know, in, they have a hand out in Florida, New York, like, everywhere, San Diego. So it's interesting to see that much of a crossover, then there hasn't been a season of Paradise. I bet you there's going to be like similar. You know how with Blake. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be so sloppy. The sloppiest. That's 100% going to happen again. So many Blakes. Yep. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. I could just already tell. I can already tell. Yeah, that's another reason why I don't want to go on

right now. You know what they should do? Oh my God. Okay. This is what we actually thought was going to happen at the beginning of my paradise season because they had us to come together for Lacey and Marcus's fake wedding. And we thought that they were about to do this. And man, why aren't I a bachelor producer? What if there were two realms, two beaches in which there was like 20 people here and then there was 20 people there? And then you have them date amongst their 20 people for like two to three weeks and then all of a sudden you have them walk on the beach and they walk and they meet each other the two groups and everything crashes and collides oh my god let's do it that could happen because there's so many people it wouldn't be a surprise to maybe have more characters on the show like

that so there's more room for more people i know so then we could do like monday and tuesday beach number one and then on Wednesday and Thursday nights we have beach number two and then midway through the season they collide and we just do Monday and Tuesday nights there's a face off I'm exciting myself with just my hypotheticals I like that idea well we got one last headline and it is a breakup which makes me think is this person going to be in Nashville paradise Maddie Maddie Pruitt She says she's single again

After a recent breakup Says She recently just got out of a eight-month relationship I was in a relationship For about eight months She says quote She never admitted that in the past She said

But it just didn't work out It just wasn't the right time Who knows what the future holds She says that she has been On a few dates since the split We have never gotten Real confirmation But it is really

rumored that the guy that she broke up with was Denver Nuggets player Michael Porter Jr. So do you see Maddie in Paradise now or nah? I'm not sure after her experience on the show she'd want to go on another show. Yeah. But at the same time, maybe that has had more to do with Peter in the whole situation with that and like how that went down. But I don't know. I think she's doing just fine finding love without being on Bachelor.

but at the same time, it could give her another chance to experience. Yeah. And also, Paradise is such a completely different experience than being on Bachelor, Bachelorette. It's just a completely different show. Yeah. So I can see that being, it's very tempting. I can see it tempting for her. For sure.

I mean, do we get Peter on Paradise and like really mess this thing up? No, not allowed. No. Let's put Peter and Hannah Ann and Maddie all there together. Oh my gosh There's been so many people dating It's very incestuous in a sense Like everyone dates everybody

So I can see a lot of clashing happening there A lot of different storylines Yeah and like I know you guys We really don't get paid anything to go to paradise You know it's it's like a per diem type situation Yeah But please producers pay these people To get all the juicy juicness on TV

That'd be worth the paycheck Do you know it'd be worth it I mean, it's so funny because there's so much that happens off camera. So I feel like we all have to be caught up with paradise. And like, know the inner workings, all the secret relationships that have been happening. I mean, that seems to always happen every year. You know, people can't help themselves. No, they can't.

But like, I made it a rule for myself as I'm not going to date anyone, anyone in Bachelor Nation, I think before I went, I was not doing it. Very smart. Very smart. I think it's the best way to do it, you know? Going fresh. You left with a relationship. So that's the way to be.

Yeah. It didn't add any drama because if you go into paradise with a bunch of things that have happened in the past, then you know you're going to have to handle it publicly. Right. And that's something that I want to avoid. Yeah. All right. Well, we have gone through all our headlines and it is time to get Devon Franklin,

the author of the new book, Live Free, Exceed Your Highest Expectations on the podcast. We're going to be talking to him about Matt James and Rachel. We're going to be talking about Rachel Lindsay's decision to leave her podcast and advice for Michelle, who will be the next Black Bachelorette. So stay tuned. But first, a word from our sponsors. Hi, my name is Enya Emanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crime. crimes, we're not the podcast for you.

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know who he is, he's a multi-media, like, legend. He's an award-winning Hollywood producer. He's a New York Times bestseller. He's a renowned motivational speaker. He's followed by millions of fans, including Ryan Seacrest, who calls him the self-help master, and Oprah, who calls him a different kind of spiritual teacher for our time. He is the author of some bestselling books, The Success Commandments and The Waits, and now he has a new book out that is going to be released tomorrow, May 4th, if you're watching, if you're listening to this a little bit delayed. And it's called Live Free, Exceed Your Highest Expectations.

Devon, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Wow. Thank you for having me. It's always a blessing to be here. It's like coming home. So thank you. You're the cutest.

Okay. So let's start. out by talking a little bit about Matt James, rekindling his relationship with Rachel Kirkconnell. So we didn't talk to you after the finale. It was actually, in fact, a couple weeks before the finale that we talked to you. And so much has gone on. People were predicting whether or not they would be together. And then on after the final rose, it seemed like they would never be together. And now it was like four weeks later, they were spotted in New York City together. I was saying to Kendall earlier in the podcast, I was like, I'm kind of.

kind of second-guessing his authenticity during after the final rose because he seems so turned off by her. What is your take on all of this? Oh, boy. Wow. How much time do we have? So much time all the time you need. You know, here's what, here's what I saw when I watched the, you know, after the final Rose episode. First and foremost, um, I, I saw, And this is going to sound harsh, media company malpractice, because they knew this information was, they had it, they didn't do anything about it. And who paid the price for it? Not Rachel, but Matt, the first black bachelor having to. grapple and deal with what does that mean? And then having information that the company withheld

that could have been nipped in the butt. She could have never been a contested ever if they thought, hey, you know what's in her past? Or he could have been made aware. Like, hey, we normally would never do this, but you need to know this because we don't want you to be blindsided. There's so many things that could have been done. But here he was, Darren headlights, having to grapple with all of it and then do it in the public. So what I saw was a man, and what deeply moved me was like when you saw the promo for The Bachelor

when he started, clean-shaven, happy, like, oh, man. And on that show, he was a shell of who he was when he started in terms of his public presentation. I said that there was symbolism to the beard. Oh, without a doubt. And now, you know, the beard is gone.

and he's, you know, seemingly rekindling the relationship. But so what I saw was someone who unfairly was put in a situation that they then had to deal with. And I think that he probably felt, you know, I haven't talked to Matt. I don't know Matt. So I'm just, you know, extrapolating here. He probably felt like I have no other choice right now than to take this stand. Like, if I don't take this stand, am I really being, you know, am I being honest to myself? Am I being true to what it means, you know, to be a black man?

And it's like, there was no win. So I understood the idea of like, hey, you know what, I'm going to check out of this and wait. So it's not, I didn't look at him as someone who's whose opinion you can't trust per se. I just saw someone who was put in a situation that he should have never been put in. And there was no guidance on how to do it. So the best thing he could do is just protect himself. All I can do is protect and the best way to, what are we doing when we protect? We retreat.

You know what? I got to protect me. Now, with hearing that they're rekindling, I'll be honest with you. I was very happy about that. And you know why I was happy about it? Because no matter what, all the factors be them as they may and, you know, all the things that shouldn't have happened. they seem to genuinely have a real connection. And in my mind,

she seemed to genuinely seem remorseful for what happened. So in any relationship, this is any relationship, to what degree are you going to hold the past of the person you're dating or you are falling in love with against them? Do you feel like there was, well, this sounds like an obvious question,

but I'll ask it anyway. Do you feel like his decision there on that stage next to Rachel where, you know, he didn't even hug her or for so what we saw there was pressure for him to make the decision not to continue to see her um you know i think you know again okay as a as a as a black man if i'm put in that situation i understand the decision because you know it's like how it's a very hard thing to go out in front of the world as a black man and accept

publicly what all of the facts. It's very hard. So, you know, if anything, maybe the, maybe the pressure was to just get out of this. Like, you know what? I just, it's, this is blown up. It's much bigger than I know how to deal with. The best way is for me to retreat, pull back, and get out of it. So maybe he felt that pressure. I don't know if anyone in his crew were pressuring him. I don't know what the pressure from the network

or the producers may or may not have been. But I could imagine there was some pressure to just, you know what, this, I can't no, no. And then also he did, he did say that when he brought it up to her, there was some discomfort in her response, right? but you know again i'm not i'm not i'm not making any excuses for at all you know but if you've done something that you that you are you have no awareness of your initial response could be one of

ignorance like hey what do you mean did it not really being in touch with what it really means so i don't know what pressure he was under other than this is a this is a this is beyond me this is overwhelming i really didn't ask for this this is not what i asked for when i came on this show there was who was protecting me who and that's the thing that really just it's like we all talk about media we all talk about what goes on in the public but if you look closely this is this is the cost when we talk about ratings and we talk about you know uh everybody just wanting a big show it's like yo we can still do that but who's taking care of the people oh so we're willing to sacrifice people's lives for viewers for

eyeballs with no, no accountability. I mean, seriously, again, I don't know what ABC and I don't know what the producers are doing in their internal groups, but there's got to be some accountability around this. We should pray he comes out of this and he's able to navigate. That's why I'm so excited that they're getting back together because if that was a genuine connection, don't let anybody take that from you. You go and explore that for yourself and on your terms, you decide if that's the right person for you, if that's the right fit on your terms. But there were things that could have been done to help him along the way. So I think he felt the pressure of getting out. Like, hey, this is over. We're done. I got to just get out of this the best way I can. Yeah. Do you feel like

when he was on the stage out after the final rose, he was confused about his feelings for Rachel? Or do you think it was so much more than that with how his reaction was with everything? No, I think he was very, I mean, again, I haven't talked to the brother, but I think he was very confused. I think so. How could you not? Because then also, you know, it's like I have these legitimate feelings on both sides. I can't believe she did this. I can't believe the woman I fall in love with has done that. And then what does that mean? You know, so yeah, I think he was legitimately confused trying to sort it all out, having to do it in front of the public. Everybody's watching. If he had stayed with her, he'd have been vilified,

leaving. He was, you know, there was no win and very little support and protection to ensure that what needed to be factored in was factored in, which was really how he was feeling and how she was feeling and making sure that they both had enough information to gauge whether or not that was a real feeling or just something that was produced. On that note, Michelle will be the next black bachelorette this fall. So do you have any advice for her or the franchise? And that time comes. You know, again, I'm not as super,

I'm not well versed in how it all works behind the scenes. I mean, you know, you all have a much better idea about that. But if I were her, I would have a very candid conversation with the producers, with the network, whoever the liaisons are, and say, hey, here, let's get some ground rules. If there's anything in anyone's background

that is racist, prejudiced against anyone or anybody, and you're going to keep them as a contestant of the show, I need to know. Period. In the story. Like, I'm not going to go through a process and then all of a sudden, like, no, no, no, you all are doing background checks. Anything that is going to,

that I need protection as a, black woman, I need that information because I'm not going to go through what you all put Matt through, right? And also, you can't afford for me to go through it because if I go through it, you may not have a franchise anymore. It's still, it's still TBD what's going to happen with this franchise. It's not out of the woods, okay? It's still TBD. So if I was Michelle, I would sit down and get really clear about what I need. I need more transparency. I need more protection, and I need to not just be looked at as a contestant. I'm a person. This is a, I'm a, I'm a heart, I have a heart, I have emotions, right? This is real for me. I know it's a show for you, but this is real for

me. And I need some, some help and some guidance in that way. And I'll, you know, look, again, you asking me, I would, she, I would say, hey, who, who, who of color do I have here as a support system on, on the production side that can help me if I, if I have some problems? Yeah. And it is such a very real show. And I think a lot of people do cite that these are real people experiencing real love, a lot of emotion. What do you think needs to happen next for the franchise? And again, this is going to sound crazy. Okay. Y'all ask me, you ask me these questions. I'm just going to answer me, honestly. I think you got to bring Chris back. Okay. And why? Why? Because if this is the end of Chris, it is it's let me put this way all of us have been on the job and done something that did not always represent the type of employee we've been all of us you know when I was an executive for Sony you know I made a few mistakes in terms of how I handled a project and handled some people they didn't throw me out they said we know your capability we're just going to take this as a mistake but if you do it again, it's going to be a problem. But take this as a warning.

Okay, I got the memo, and I got back in there, and my whole career has thrived since then. So when you have someone who's been as loyal, as dedicated, as integral to the show, if that was the last we saw of him, it just leaves such a bad taste in the mouth of all of us. And I say us being a part of Bastogneation. It's like what he said was wrong.

There's no excuse for it. He has said that. He's continuing to do his work. He's continuing to be remorseful. And he, I believe, is owed a shot to get it right. Because then when you go back and you say, well, what did he do that made him get fire from the franchise? Like he didn't, he was not unkind. He was not, you know, a terrible person.

to work with. He wasn't. He didn't violate any ethics in that regard. I understand that what he said was wrong, but when he talk about losing your job, I think that he deserves a chance to be brought back and let the public decide. If he is coming back and he's doing his work, let the numbers say to tell the story. But I personally feel that if you get rid of Chris over what happened, it's I don't know. Some about it doesn't sit right with me. Do you find that he can be integrated back into the show just right off into Paradise or should there be another type of interview with him?

I don't think he can be integrated back into, well, you know, honestly, Paradise is probably the perfect integration form because it's a little more fun. It's a little more carefree. it, you know, it's not, there isn't as much attention on Paradise from a media standpoint as there is on The Bachelor and the Bachelorette. So Paradise could actually be a great way to see what the public is saying about, you know, him as a host and whatnot. And maybe this idea of, you know, having, you know, female host that you, he does it with someone else, you know, where it's not all on him,

but there's someone else there, you know, having a woman there that can, you know, help carry the load. And, you know, and also that's probably what should be anyway,

you know, you know, I just think that balance is a good thing and I think it's good for the franchise. So I actually think easing him in back

on Paradise might be a good move. Last question about Chris. I just want to know if you've talked to him recently because I know that you were in communication with him back when we spoke

in February. Yeah, we communicated, you know, right around, we communicated all through that moment and, you know, and even after the final road show, you know, I just checked in. I want to say, hey, man, how you doing? He said, you know, I'm hanging there, doing well. So we haven't talked since then. But I did connect him, you know, with some resources that he was taking advantage of and really committing to the work. So that's why, you know, I can tell you personally stuff that's not even in the public, the type of work that he has committed to and the work. that he's doing. So, you know, I mean, yeah, I should probably reach out to him and just say, hey, man, what's up, bro? Just check it on you. Make sure you're good, you know? So I'm going to do that now that you mention him.

Everyone was saying that the show is so different with Chris not being there. And he always was such an advisor of sorts for the men on the show. So I do like the idea of having Chris and maybe another female host to have that balance because he has so much experience with bringing people through the journey that is the bachelor. Totally. And, and, you know, and what he knows and in his ability to just ground the proceedings is valuable. It's a valuable thing. You know, again, I just, I don't know. I mean, you know, again, I know my opinion could be very unpopular as it relates to this, but I just feel like he, he needs another shot. And, and he's, and I, frankly, I think he's earned it.

I mean, my goodness, you know, he's been, been doing it for so long. And, and even if, there was a plan. Let's say the network said, hey, Chris, we're going to have to move on. Let's just say that that was their decision. Give that, make that a process. You know, like, okay, we're going to have you on Bachelor in Paradise. We're going to do this. And then, you know, on the next thing, we're going to, you know, phase you out and let this host, but, you know, whatever it is. But let's let there, let there be a little bit more elegant way to handle this than just to say, okay, no, Chris never returned and see y'all later. Yeah. Now that Chris isn't on Bachelorette, do you think the

we're going to have a completely different experience than the Bachelorette airs. Totally. I mean, the thing about Chris, though, is it's like, it's almost like, you know, when you're at camp and you never know when your parents are going to show up, you know? Yeah. So when the parent is going, like,

man, listen, if Chris ain't there, everybody's going to be wild and I don't know, it's probably going to be, you know, I mean, you know, Bachelor's going wild. That's probably what's going to happen. And so I can't wait to see how it all works out without him being there and without his presence, you know, being a presence in the in the show. So we have so many contestants coming up, fighting for spots in Paradise. Do you think that your book, your new book, Live Free, could help them when it comes to fear and anxiety around finding love?

Oh, without a doubt. How so? Because. You know, this book is all about one living free. And when I say living free, it means that you and I, we are not under the mental, emotional, or physical control of anyone or anything. And the way that we become free is to set expectations for ourselves. We don't allow anyone outside of us, the people we love, the culture.

We don't allow our gender. we don't allow our race to set the expectations that we live by. We set those expectations. So when you talk about, you know, the contestants trying to find love and being single, first and foremost, and I talk about this in the book, there's a whole section in this book on relationships. There's multiple chapters on relationships, on being single, and how to manage our expectations.

First and foremost, if you are single, it's because you are whole. there is nothing wrong with you as a single person and if you are not cultivating and practicing your happiness now as someone who is single I guarantee you when you get in your relationship you ain't going to be happy why because if you're looking to you know to become a contestant on a bachelor and being bachelor in paradise oh because I want to find love well have you found love first in yourself. Because if you do not look in the mirror or when you take a selfie, if you don't love that reflection, you then become open to manipulation. How? Because you're going to want somebody to do something for you that you're not doing for yourself.

And then it's like you heard this idea, oh, this person makes me happy. I think that is the craziest statement ever. Why? Because the moment I say you make me happy. Make means create. So I'm giving you the ability to create what I should be creating for myself. You can contribute to my happiness. Thank you. But I am the creator of my happiness. And so if somebody is trying to be a contestant, the way to do it is through confidence of self. You know who you are. You are great with what you have to offer and the more you learn to love yourself and the more you enleased the power of your singleness, you're going to be a better evaluator of the people that try to court you or try to date you. Because you're going to be like, no, you don't actually love you. You don't love you.

And if you don't love you, ain't no way you're going to even learn how to love me. So I'm going to move on, right? So there's so much knowledge in this book that absolutely would help somebody. I think, you know, not only just succeed in the show, but succeed in their love life, no matter what happens on the show. Yeah, going on Paradise Bachelor, I think it's difficult not to have expectation. You know, you see everyone else going through it,

and you're thinking that could be me. I couldn't find love. And you know, you have an idea of maybe who the Bachelor, Bachelorette, who's going to be, and you have an expectation of, I can see myself with this person. Yeah.

So what's your advice for people going on the show? like, how do you not have expectation after it's all out there, you know? Well, here's the reality. There's an expectation, it means a strong belief about what should happen. So what happens, though, you've got to ask two questions. In order to have an expectation in the book I talk about, we have to learn the process of setting expectations. That comes down to two questions.

One, is the expectation I have realistic or unrealistic? Well, how do I know if it's realistic? Is it in my control? Two, is it spoken or unspoken? Does the expectation need to be communicated? So first, for the first question, let's talk about the show. Okay, so I have an expectation that this show is going to deliver love. Do I control it?

No. We wish. Right. No, no. So why is this so important? Because, listen, I watch the show. So I'm not the only one. Millions of people see people go on, you know, Bachelor in Paradise, Bachelor,

and lose their minds because they cite themselves into thinking that if love doesn't happen for me during this production, love ain't going to happen for me. Yeah. It's not true. It's just, it's just, it's not true. So you go into the show, not getting out of it what you could, because you need from the show more than you're actually bringing to the show. Yeah.

So when you talk about expectations, it's like the best way to go into the show is to have this expectation. I'm going to be my best self. I'm going to be open to love. I'm going to be the love I want to receive. I'm going to enjoy the experience. And I'm going to let the result be whatever the result is. If I don't find love, it's not a reflection on me. If I don't find love, it's not because I'm not lovable.

If I don't find love, it's not because I'm not valuable. I just didn't find love. Okay, great. Cool. Let me keep moving, right? Let me go in for the experience. Let me take the expectation off outside of the expectation that I control, which is how you actually can go on to the show.

The other thing is this. The second part of the setting expectation is critical communication. Listen, if I was ever on these shows, oh, boy, listen. Hey, see, here's the thing. This is something, y'all ask my question. I'm going to give you. Here's the thing, I think there's way too much kissing on these shows, way too much. Oh, we love the kissing.

Come on. I was kidding. I understand y'all do what I get it. I am not judging. There's the reason why I say why I'm correlating communication. This is the author of the weight here. That's right.

Exactly. No, but here's the thing. I don't have a problem with kissing. I'm just saying like, yo, like, wait a minute. Wait a second. Hold on a second. First of all, what is your intention? What's going on with you?

Like, before I decide, I want to kiss you, I need to know what's going on with you. Who are you? Who is who I am? Right? Like, and here's the thing. I do not want to, to, because this thing, y'all, listen, I'm just telling my truth. Talk about expectation. So physically, what happens is, oh, even with the fantasy suite.

Oh. So, you know, and that was a part last season. I was like, man, this show is too much for me. me. You don't have a fantasy suite with these three women. I don't know what you did. I don't know what you didn't do. And then you come out of it. Oh, man. Well, let's say that experience, you know, let's say there was a sexual experience. And let's say that sexual experience wasn't exactly what you wanted. So then because it didn't meet your expectation in a moment, you come out and you discard somebody actually could have been the right fit. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Who, listen, who gets it right? right the first time. No one. No one. It's knowing someone. It's not. It's your first time. Exactly.

So this is why if I, you know, I would, listen, I'd be talking. I'd be saying, hey, so you want to go into this sweep. What is your expectation? Let's get it clear now. I want to know what you're expecting to go down in there, right? Because the more we communicate, then the more information you have to know how you want to navigate the situation. This book is all about getting the power back. You can know, okay, let's say you're in a situation where, you know,

hey, the fantasy suite, they tell you, hey, you know what, I want to, it's about, I want to have sex and see if that were compatible in that way. Now you have the information, but you have the choice if that's what you want to do versus not asking the question. And then you get into a situation that maybe you didn't even want to necessarily do that. But because it's already kind of happening and the cameras are outside, you just go with it. In your heart, you're like, man, I didn't really want to do that. This book and this message is all about taking the power back. I think your book, Live Free, should be required reading for everybody that's going into Paradise and Bachelor hands down.

Right. Because we get in our own heads. You know what I mean? Like, while you're in the experience, you're completely in your head. Right. So I think this book is really, everyone required reading. I read his last book, The Wait, before going to do Bachelor Winter Games, and it was like all the words that I needed to read beforehand. I am a member of the Church of

Devon Franklin. Your shift, but actually like your shift after that. I would say, I would say you, the way you approached Winter Games was completely different than you had approached other, you know, other seasons of the show. So I think. think it worked. I didn't know that's deep. I didn't know. I told him last time I was like, I went from being single all my 29 years to reading his book and then being engaged six months later. Yeah. That's amazing. So if you ever need like one of those things where people write on the back of your book, a couple quotes, there's my quote for you.

I got you. That's good. No, trust me. Testimonial. I'm coming for you. Don't worry. Thank you. I appreciate that in advance. All right. Well, to all of our friends heading to Paradise and to all our single friends and married friends and dating friends and all our friends. I think there's something in Live Free for everyone. Where can they get it? Where do you want them to get it besides Amazon? I know they take 50% of your book sales. I know that's not your top choice. Oh, man. Hey, they can come to my website, Devonfranckman.com. I got all the retailers there and they can and have their pick on where they would, you know, live free from. So you can live free on Devonfrankland.com. Amazing, Devon. You are a wonderful guest. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me. And Kendall's great to meet you. Great to meet you. Yeah. Via Zoom. All right. God bless. All right. Well, that was just a fantastic time. And Kendall, you've been a fantastic co-host. Thanks for sticking around on this long podcast with me

and going through all those headlines and having a nice little spiritual experience with Devon. on together no thank you so much for having me anytime i absolutely loved it especially talking to davon he's great thank you we appreciate you we'll take you up on that all right so i think you've been here a time or two since uh and and you've done to sign off with us so here's how it goes guys we'll see you next week thank you so much for listening you can always rate and comment on our podcast if you like it or if you don't you know whatever until then i appreciate you love you Signing off, I've been Ashley.

I've been Kendall, too. Follow the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast on IHartRadio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh, my God, perfect.

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