The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - To Mel and Back with Joan Vassos (The Golden Bachelor Season 2 Episode 4 Recap)

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Ben has a Golden expert joining him to recap this week’s episode of The Golden Bachelor, when the first Golden Bachelorette Joan Vassos stops by! Joan shares her honest thoughts on why viewers are having trouble connecting with Mel Owens, and we hear why Nicolle's behavior is making this feel like a non-Golden season of The Bachelor.Plus, find out what a contestant said that left Joan speechless!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. A centenarian re-discovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to Heavyweight on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

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It grew like a text. startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patience. You think you're finally like in the right hands. You're just not. Listen to IvyF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Ben and Ashley I, almost famous podcast with IHartRadio. Welcome back to the Almost Famous Podcast. It's been here today. And I am joined by the Golden Bachelorette herself, Joan Vassos. We're to recap the latest episode of the Golden Bachelor Joan. To get us started, though, I want to ask, how's chalk? He recently

said that you hadn't seen each other in about a month. That was crazy. So, okay, so we got, we started, you know, we got engaged in August of last year and we've always been really good about seeing each other every like two to three weeks at the most was like our big. time apart. And then all of a sudden, twice this summer, we just had really conflicting schedules. And also, I mean, part of the problem is he has a business in Wichita, and he kind of has to be there. So we had two instances where we didn't see each other for a whole month. And that was one of those was like last week. But we got together. He suggested that maybe we meet in New York because that's like kind of our happy place. And it's like when we go, when I go to Wichita or he comes to

Maryland, like our family's all around us. And we don't get to spend like super duper quality time together like we want. So we always rendezvous in New York City. So we did that. And we saw a show. We went to great dinners and we walked in Central Park and just had a great relaxing time. It was a real good, like what our relationship needed. When were you there in New York? Last Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So just a couple days ago. You were there when I was there with Chris Harrison and Wells Adams for the city cruises. I know. I was on the train on the way up there and I was listening to your podcast with Ashley and you said you were going to be doing that. You were there on Sunday, right? Yeah. I know. How was it?

It was amazing. It went so well. We have another one in San Diego, December 6th. It was a blast. We had the best time. It was nothing but reminiscing and telling stories. The cool part is our listeners are going to be able to actually hear New York's event because we recorded it with IHeart. So it's going to be on our stream here soon. Joan, it's funny. I was just, I just got off the phone with the sweetest, nicest United Airlines rep. And she recognized my voice from this show. And she's, you know, she got to tell me about her love of the Bachelor and the Golden Bachelor and all Bachelor things related.

And I got, I was telling her, hey, I get to jump on a recording soon and talk about this Golden Bachelor. And she was so excited. What is she? What does she think about him? I love to hear people's perspective. I didn't get an inside glance, but I did get insight from our shows

that we were doing live in Boston, New York. I think that people look at Mel and they say, a very handsome guy, he seems kind, but for whatever reason, and we could probably, you know, name a few, the audience just isn't connecting with it. Like they did past,

see you know with Gary because yeah um I think I honestly I think Mel is just it's it's uncommon for a guy like him not to be able to find somebody and I think they want that like more heartfelt second chance at love this feels like maybe one of the only ways that somebody's going to be able to find it kind of story and so it's just not connecting I agree with you on that like that we think oh he doesn't need this show to find love, like he probably has women all over him. But I also feel like he is, like I feel like, so we're in episode four. And I feel like by now I should know something about him. I still know nothing. He just doesn't open up. And by the way, he doesn't do it this episode either. So I feel like we're going to run out of time. And we may get to the

end of the season and not know Mel. And that's going to be a problem. I told Ashley this last week. I said, what we need for Mel, what Mel needs for himself. And I don't mean this to, he needs a breakdown. Like he needs that moment of vulnerability that, you know, this show oftentimes provides from the lead where we see them so invested, so conflicted, so saddened by the exits, but also the conversations. And we don't. We don't have that yet.

And like you said, I think, we needed that in episode one because people were cautious going into this season based on the comments that Mel had made to really invest into this season. And now we're actually going to be talking about episode four today, but we're pretty far into this thing for the golden season. And we don't have that moment, like you said, where we know him. I don't know what he actually wants. He says the right things. He listens to the ladies talk. They tell him how much they like him. And then he says, that's great. That means so much to me. We don't know him at all. We don't. And we're going to run out of time. And the thing is, I think he's probably being coached

by producers, right? I mean, you've been on it. I've been on it. You know, they know what you need to be doing. And I feel like he's being coached and he doesn't have it in him, is what I'm afraid of. That we're just going to run out of time. And he just isn't going to give that to us because, you know, we're getting pretty far along into this. He, we're down to only. nine women. Okay, he started out with 24, 25. And, you know, we're getting down to where things are going to get serious really soon. We're going to get down to hometowns before we know it, and we know nothing about male. I'm just afraid he doesn't have it in him. He doesn't have anything to say. I would also say, there's a couple things, and I'm glad we're talking about this with you.

I actually don't think we know the women either. I think we know pieces of them. But, But, you know, when you were on the Golden Bachelor, there are storylines from the women. Maybe they're storylines of loss. Maybe they're storylines of hope. Maybe they're storylines of getting through something difficult, like illness or financial struggle. We don't, I could not name one of those instances right now. And then here's the other side. And I want to leave space for you to comment on this.

Mm-hmm. This feels very much like a bachelor season to me. Yeah. And that was what was beautiful about the Golden Show originally was it was so different. It was heartwarming. It was heartfelt. It was beautiful. It was one of support and hope and this like empowerment.

This feels very bachelor to me because we have a villain this season. And Nicole. I know. Well, I feel like it feels very bachelor, like you said. But I think part of the reason it feels very bachelor, I mean, I think everybody knows or we all know in this business that bachelor seasons do better than bachelorette seasons because people like having the women as the like storyline because they are so open and giving of themselves and telling about themselves and wanting to talk. And this group, like you said, really hasn't done that that much. So it also feels like a bachelor season because of that. It just, I feel like we're lacking, we're lacking all of those backstories. Like you said, I feel like the only one I really know right now, maybe Debbie.

And I feel like I am rooting for her just because she's the only one I feel like I know. And maybe Cheryl a little bit because she had a one-on-one date. It's missing it right now for me. And I'm frustrated by that because I love the golden franchise. I think it is something that could be still, I'm hoping, so good for the, the franchise and for the show, but it's tough. Let's jump into this. Yeah, let's talk about that villain.

Yeah, there's a lot there. A lot to say. We're recapping episode four. We kind of start this whole thing with Debbie leading the women in a workout class by the pool. We have nine 11 women left at this point. Carol admits at this point she's holding back. And then Debbie comes in with the date card. Now, here's where we'll start, Joan.

Peg gets the one-on-one this week. week, and you wanted to talk about our villain, Nicole, she's surprised, if I remember right, at this moment and a little irritated by Peg getting this one-on-one. It's the start, a little foreshadowing, I think, of what's to come for this episode where the underlying theme is Nicole rubbing people the wrong way. Yeah, and she started this rubbing people the wrong way, like, already. It's happened in other episodes. She just is, I think she's so very self, unself-aware. Like, she doesn't really see reality. And she thinks they all really like her, I think. And I think they're all rolling in their eyes as she walks out of rooms after she says these crazy statements.

And this was one of them. I mean, and we hear a lot of it in interviews. So I don't think they're hearing everything we're hearing. When they watch this back, I think it's going to be a whole different story. But right now, like she's saying that in an interview, she's like, yeah, I don't really get. like why he why she has a one-on-one date i really haven't seen the chemistry well why would you see the chemistry you know like they're having individual conversations not in your eyesight so i think she just wants to you know feel like she has an upper hand and so she's just poo-pooing everybody else's relationships because she thinks she's formal why do you how do you feel about there being an identified um villain during during the golden show do you

like how does that make you feel watching it back now knowing you've been a part of all the seasons up until this point? That's funny. So I don't like it. So I think the thing that people like about Golden Bachelor and Golden Bachelor is that there isn't drama. And I've heard that over and over and over again. So it has its own little place in Bachelor world. And I like that it has its own little place. And it's like what people are looking for when they go to that place.

And now that place has been like kind of uprooted a little bit. and now it has like paint splashed on it or whatever. It just isn't as pure as it was. And I'm not sure, will it ever go back to being pure again? And I'm worried once drama is introduced, then all of a sudden it's okay now. And I hope that that is not the case because I feel like we're going to lose that audience. And we're already worried about that. We're already worried about the golden audience.

And this is just another thing to drive them away. I agree with you. There was great momentum coming out of the Golden Bachelor and Golden Bachelorette into this season. I think it was at a tipping point of really taking off and becoming a household watchable product. You're right in saying it was pure. The Bachelor, I think, really suffered when drama became the focus and story and love became kind of secondary to the overall message. and drama was what people were, you know, what the show was showing, I hope the show listens to their audience and says, hey, they're not liking the drama. They're not watching the drama.

They're not intrigued by the drama. Jessica, my wife watched The Golden because of the lack of drama. It was something we could watch and not get frustrated with. We could watch it and just enjoy the beautiful stories and the beautiful people that came through, I think adding in drama and focusing on drama is a mistake. That's my take. Completely agree. Yeah. And I'm not sure if we can go backwards now. Now that we've had drama, you know, I worry a little bit that Bachelor is worried about its audience. And it, so let's let's like just jump off of Golden and go and look who they just cast for the next. season of Bachelorette, somebody who's a really controversial figure. You know, she has a very sorted pass and she's going to bring readings. Are they doing this for ratings? That's what

scares me now. Like if you then all of a sudden become a show about ratings, then you lose your purity. You lose why you're really there. So, and your ratings should follow your, you know, the reason you're there as opposed to the other way around. I think you're right. And I heard that all weekend on these cruises. Is people going, yeah, just, you know, it's hard for us to now watch the show when the intention behind the show is not what it used to be, which is even if this doesn't work out, the people coming on were least hopeful that maybe this was where the start of their love story began, which is a good segue here.

We're going to get back to the Peg and Mel date because there's some great moments on that date and the fair is beautiful, but kind of underlie. lying through this episode is the conversation about becoming an influencer and promoting brands and your status in society as somebody that's known. Did you during your time on the show ever hear these kind of conversations happening and they just weren't shown? Was it a different mindset? Kind of talk about what your experience was on the show based on what you're watching now this season. So I think as you get farther and long, It happened with Bachelor, a Bachelorette, and now it's happening with Golden.

The first seasons are really about what the seasons are supposed to be about. And like we didn't know about being an influencer. I didn't even know what an influencer was. I didn't even have Instagram. And I think that was true for pretty much everyone on our show. I think that was pretty much true for all the men that were on my show. But I feel like as people, so people on Golden Bachelor now have Instagram. So I have Instagram, Kathy, Susan, Nancy.

Everybody has Instagram now from our season. And so we're now already starting from like one step higher. So we went from us not having Instagram to this group now, having Instagram and thinking, okay, I could make something out of this. So I feel like this influencer thing, just like those steps go up and up and up for every season. And I think now we've just made the next step up. Like now they know. And now the next group is going to make that next step. And all of a sudden, we're going to be just like the regular bachelor and bachelorets.

We're going to be people that are going on there for the wrong reasons, trying to be influencers, thinking this is the way that they are going to be famous as opposed to how great it was right in the beginning with the first golden bachelor in the first, in my first season, where everybody was there for just only the right reasons. Nobody was there for any other reason. Yeah. Again, it goes back to your word purity. It had a pure spirit to it because there was no other thought process or intention. coming into the show and then really leaving the show.

And I obviously know a lot of the contestants that were on your season, but also during Gary's time as The Bachelor. And yes, some of them have made new second careers, third careers based on the show. But those things were kind of offered to them. They weren't pursued during it or from it. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved,

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Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley Feed on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye.

Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood?

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Joan, let's go to this Peg and Mel date. Interesting couple, to me, they're very unique, obviously both very active, athletic. They went to a fair. there's one of our producers on the show Heather has been to this fair every summer of her life Mel and Pegg say they both been to this fair before fairs are a big deal because where I come from the Kasiasco County Fair in Warsaw, Indiana is what people travel 30 plus miles to come to because it is one of the coolest things of the summer. I love fairs, big fan of fairs. I still go back for the fair? What was your thoughts on the relationship or the connection between Peg and

Mel? It's just like wholesome fun. And that's what we needed from the two of them because she is just I feel like she is like an innocent. I mean, she's probably seeing terrible things in her life. She worked with FBI. She was a firefighter. Like she had all these experiences yet she is just so joyful and she's so easy to get along with and she's game for anything. And I think it was a perfect date for them. I think we really needed to see that from Mel also. Like, I knew she had it in her, but I needed to see if he had it in him. Like, can you just be fun and let go of like all of your status in the world? You know, you've been a professional football player, your lawyer. I mean, I think he has all this kind of ego in him and just like have no ego and just have fun to act like a

kid. So I think we needed this from him. And I think he did a really good job. I think he was really engaged. Peg is one of those like big personalities, I think that could push him out of his comfort zone, which is, I think, as you said, something needed. She is a big personality. She's a fun person. I wish we'd actually get more of Pegg throughout the season as we watch her interact, even with the women, because I think she is probably hilarious. I can just picture her filter not being there, similar to a Kathy where they say wild

things, and it's hilarious, and it's lovable, and we like them more for it. I wish we saw more of Peg kind of interacting amongst the women in the house but this was a good date and I do think if anything if nothing else this was a very humanizing moment for us watching Mel

we got to watch him become just a human and not some robot that's you know handsome smart accomplished all these things it's like we just want to see him go out and throw a baseball and eat you know whatever

fair food they eat and have fun and have fun that I think the message is just we want to see Mel have fun during this we really did and the fact that he had fun even though she was beating him in most of the games was actually showed me that his ego wasn't as much as I thought it was like he was happy that she was really good he thought she was a I think he actually said I think she's a badass or something like that like he was he thought it was charming and he like that about her. So that made me like him more, honestly, because he could have been one of those guys that like, oh, she's better and, like, sulked or, you know, not wanted to play the games anymore. He kept going back for more and he liked it. Yeah. I think the big moment that stands out, too,

is Peg throwing the baseball, how into it she got. I don't know if that's, like, just to her being funny or if that's how she throws a baseball, but it had to be clocking at 85 miles per hour straight down the pipe because she put her whole body into it. Seriously. I don't know. I No, I was like, where did she learn how to do that? I feel like everything she does surprises me. She's just good at everything. And as well as looking good while she's doing it. She's just so cute, so pretty.

She's a cute little figure. And she's just so joyful. She makes you smile. And he even said that when she was walking up, or maybe it was in one of his interviews, he said, every time I'm with Peg, I just smile. It's just infectious. She just makes you smile. And I think he had such a good time with her.

And I feel like, honestly, I don't want to. give him to call any credit, but I hadn't seen a lot of chemistry with them either. And I thought this is where I finally see it. Yeah, that's fair. One of the funniest moments, it just like made me smile is they kind of end their date with the Casey and the Sunshine Band, which is something my dad played so often. Oh, by the way, I knew every song. I'm sorry. I'm of the golden era too. I loved Casey and the Sunshine Band. It just made me smile. I loved it because I was like, this is bringing back my childhood, playing over the, you know, the speakers in the house. Yeah.

This is a great day. And then we're moving on to the next day at the mansion. This is where we're really getting the conversation that we just talked about, about influencing. Yeah, the kind of the status that these women will have coming off of this show. It feels, I don't know why I feel this way. it almost watching it felt heavy to me joan like one i think the dreams and the expectations will fall short of what they're like what nicole is really hoping for out of this i just i don't know many people that have made a living influencing uh off of this show i think it's very

hard i think it's very sporadic i think it seems short lived i think it's just tough so i i i feel heavy in that manner that she comes on to this thinking that her life is going to change and she's going to be able to influence. I also don't love, again, I think it's heavy because I love this golden franchise so much. It felt almost like a pivoting turning point for me watching a show where I say, okay, the purity of this is gone now. This was good. This was great. It was different than anything else the Bachelor has put out there. It's no longer different. And I'm sad about that. It was so blatant. And so she just held nothing back.

I felt like she was really full of herself that morning. She got up with a like a new look on, you know, lease on life. And she was going to go just put it all out there. And she's like, you know, I came here not just dating Mel. I'm dating America. I'm like, I'm not even sure what that means. But, and everybody who's watching and not watching, I'm not sure what that means. Then she said, like, we have real housewife status.

I think you're right. She's, her thought of this is overinflated. there are lots of people that come off the show and go back to their normal lives. Like, honestly, I came off of being golden bachelorette and I got home on a Friday and I went to work on Monday morning. Like, your life doesn't change that much. You go back to your regular life and I don't think she gets that or I don't think that's what she wants. But I do feel like it was so blatant. It did kind of ruin things.

Yeah. And I mean, I think she sucks the air out of the room like with her like weird comments. Yeah, definitely. like if you have one kind of person speaking this way and doing this type of thing, it does change the whole vibe of the house. I went back to work after my time as The Bachelor. For two years, I sold software again until other things kind of came on into my world and I could leave my job for two years. A week after filming stopped, I was back in my office working and traveling for a offer a company, I think this messaging of whoever's telling them this, that this

influencing is the path and it's going to be handed to you and you're going to get paid so much money to post some pictures, I just think it needs to go away because it is hurting the show. It's especially will hurt the Golden franchise. Yeah. So, you know, we do get then the group date before we get into the Lemon Bar scandal. Mm-hmm. Before we do, I do, there was a line that I want to ask you.

about. I know. Yeah. I'm still just like kind of comprehend it to be honest. Joan, you are a you are a beautiful human, attractive in every way, personality, uh, the physical appearance. And there's so many other women on your season that were just beautiful people. But Nicole says that the last cast was not that good looking or something along those lines. Yeah. Not, wasn't so great looking or something like that. I I actually stopped it and rewound it.

I was like, couldn't believe somebody could actually say that. So, and I'm like, yep, she sure as heck said that. And I don't even know what to say that. I mean, first of all, like you said, there are such beautiful women on the Golden Bachelor season. And at this point, you know, we've gotten to know so many of them. You know, we went through a whole season. But now we've seen them after the season and like what their lives look like and what good people they are. And I just don't think she is in touch with reality.

I just think she is so full of herself. And she is so, I almost feel like her whole world is a show right now. And all of her happiness and all of her status is involved in this show. And so she needs to make it really big and really special in her mind. And to do that. And she's also all about like very, very, very in tune with the looks and the way people look. And so I think that, you know, having a bunch of beautiful men and the women on the show are really beautiful. I agree with her.

But I don't think they're any more beautiful than the people. that were on Golden Bachelor. I think everybody's different. Everybody is beautiful in their own way. And she just needs this to be bigger in that way also. Yeah. I completely agree with you. I was surprised by that comment because it is, it just feels, one, more critical than we're used to even seeing on The Bachelor. And then two, I just don't, I don't know if I agreed. And so it feels like a very aggressive comment to make while you know you're on a show that this will probably be shown on to national television, especially if somehow you're dating America. I just don't think it's going to go over well. We are going to get into the group date. The group date card says

sexy at every age. It's going to be a photo shoot with People magazine. Joan, you've been on the show. You've done these photo shoots. Ashley and myself both have. different and but yet similar takes on a photo shoot date they seem to have popped up on every golden season so far yeah what do you think of them did it feel this do you remember yours does it feel fun does it bring people together like just walk us through how it feels to be on the golden show and be told you're going on a photo shoot so on golden bachelor like so first of all let's just say like as women being on a photo shoot like dressing up and like trying to pretend you're something else is what we've done all of our lives. Like you, you, like for, you know, your third or fourth Christmas,

you're given a box full of costumes that you wear around the house all day with your friends. And, you know, it's what we do. So honestly, I think it's a really good date, group date, because women feel kind of comfortable. And you got to think about other group dates that they've had so far. They've been cheerleaders, kind of uncomfortable. They have had to do a comedy routine, also a little hard in front of a bunch of people. So as far as a group date, I feel like this is comfortable for the women, and we may get more out of them because they're not so nervous. They are going to put on like a fun outfit and have your picture taken and get close to Mel. What you don't get is a lot of conversation.

In fact, you get like no conversation, honestly. You just get Mel looking good. He's a handsome guy. He has a shirt off on a lot of this date. He has his shirt off, and he's looking great. And the women are looking really fun and pretty in their costumes, and they look like they're having a great time. You don't get a lot of conversation,

but you do, I feel like it's like really cute pictures and everybody having fun and it looks like it's fun. But once again, when are you talking during these dates? You're having your picture taken. And talking is something we're missing this season.

I think we started off the show saying, hey, we're missing getting to know people. But we do get to know somebody that I think you and I both find not only interesting but very intriguing. and a really one of those characters this season that I'd love to even learn more about. Debbie, she gets emotional during this date

because, as she's mentioned in the past, she's never been engaged, she's never been married. I think she has been engaged. She has been engaged. You think, okay. Yeah, she has been engaged, but she's never been married. Okay. Yep, but never worn a wedding dress.

This is very special. In fact, this, I feel like, could have been her golden bachelorette moment Where this person who is beautiful, who is open to sharing her feelings and emotions, who's excited about the possibility of love, opens up about that. And this is the date that does it. It's, you know what, though? It's interesting now that we're talking about this. I remember during Gary's season and they had the photo shoot, I think that's when Nancy

really, you know, opened up and started sharing. So there is something about this wedding dress deal that's a little bit. it mean because you're for anybody that's been married to the past or lost a spouse or maybe you've been divorced it is a reminder yep of what was i don't know if i love that aspect to it but it has caused the contestants to open up and i think that is going to be very beneficial especially this season so um in gary season nancy opened up because she was super emotional about she said i haven't had a wedding dress on since i was married and she had lost her husband and um he had died of colon cancer so

you know, it was really emotional for her. I see Debbie getting really emotional and I also get that for her because she has never had this experience. And like most people by the age, by the time you're in your 60s, you've been married. Maybe it didn't work out. Maybe you're a divorce or maybe your husband has passed away like mine did. But you have actually had the time to be married. You've spent years and years and years with your person. And she's never had that. And it makes me really worried for her Because in her interview, after that, she said, I was, she said, I, you know, it was so special being in this wedding dress and I was ready for him to get down on one knee right there. And I feel like, oh, I'm going to kill him if he breaks her heart. I'm afraid, you know, I know she's one of nine still.

And I'm really, really worried about her heart right now because I think she is maybe the most open of everybody. Yeah. Of all the contestants, I think she is most of it. I almost feel like she's most deserving. I want this so badly for her to be a couple, to be married. She's wanted it for so long. Yeah, again, it points to if it doesn't work out with her and Mel, how beautiful would it be if she got her own chance and we could watch?

Like, that's the type of people I want to watch on this show. As people, I'm like, I beg of you to find a love and I beg of you to let me watch it because it would be so beautiful. Oh my God. I love that idea. I love that idea. So I hope this works out for her because I can see that she's really invested in Mel

and she really likes them and I actually think they're really cute together but if it doesn't, I love your idea. Okay, so I'm going to hold out hope that if she doesn't get it I'm not going to be heartbroken for her because maybe she'll get to be the golden bachelor. Let's put it out there.

Let's get people voting for it. I'm with you. All I know is what I've been told And that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved. Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV.

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happen to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.

How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed, robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood? I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am.

I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that fuck my man. Put so much heart and soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Even when I was a stripper, I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here. When was the moment you felt I did it?

I still, to this day, don't feel comfortable. I fight every day. to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant

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shady money drugs violence and broken promises it's a freaking war zone these people are animals there's no integrity there's no loyalty that's all gone in the 1980s modeling wasn't just a dream It was a battlefield. Book, book, book, make deals. Let's get models in. Let's get them out. And the models themselves?

They carried scars that never fully healed. Until this day, honestly, if I see a measuring tape, I freak out. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Groporiatus, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This date kind of goes on and on, and then the photographer says he saw a lot of chemistry with Mel and Cindy.

He wants to take them for more pictures. and so we see the women watching Mel and Cindy roll around the beach. The conversation I want to have around this that I think is interesting. Ashley and myself talked about it last week. As a lead of a show, it was always very important to me to try to not show affection in front of the other castmates or other contestants when at all possible. It just felt mean.

It felt like it would increase jealousy or envy. Mel doesn't seem to have this problem. He seems to be diving full force into. kissing and holding on whoever is near him in front of anybody else. I mean, we saw it in the pool, right? I mean, literally in front of everybody else. What do you think of that?

I feel the same way as you do about it. First of all, I not only feel that way about it in front of everybody else watching and it like creating conflict and creating, you know, jealous. As the person, like even as Cindy, I wouldn't have wanted it because I'd want the other girls to like me.

But also, it seems a little, voyeuristic to me. Like, I don't think that as like me watching the TV, like, I really want to see that kind of intimate moment. I don't want to see anything that intimate. Like, you know, kisses are okay. Rolling on top of each other is a little too much for me. I think it's, especially with the golden. I'm with you. I just, it's, it feels, again, either pushing on the lines of being the bachelor's show or it also even during the bachelor's show would feel maybe I'd say inappropriate just with the respect of the other people involved speaking of inappropriate this date starts out really like beautiful and they're wearing dresses and all this stuff and then we end with people wearing towels

I don't exactly remember or understand why how did we go from dresses to towels? I don't know well so the whole beach theme is okay I don't know how poor Carol ended up with just a towel and I'm looking at the rack of clothes Now, she's standing there, she's like, all I have is a towel, but yet there is a rack still with clothes on it. So I'm not sure how that happened.

That seems maybe it was a little engineered. And she got stuck with the towel, and, like, she didn't seem like she really liked the idea. And she felt uncomfortable, and I felt uncomfortable for her. And I think maybe she really didn't have clothes on underneath. I don't really know. But I think it's, like, kind of brave. You're running around Malibu Beach with only a towel on. But she embraced it at the end, which I'm surprised.

She said, I went from hating being the towel girl to love. loving being the towel girl. I'm not sure why that transition happened. I think she just finally accepted it and got into it. But I don't know what were the producers thinking. Why did she? I don't even know the theme of that date. They all had different stuff on.

Yeah. I think it was literally I don't know if there was an idea. It was like here's a photo shoot and what can we individually pick out for each person to make them feel the most uncomfortable or to bring out emotion. Carol does end up with the group day rose from this date. So it does work out for her. But we also see the first time Mel. is kind of exposed to any drama

that's happening in the house. Robin brings up to Mel during this that, hey, she doesn't think everybody there is being authentic to the experience and to the pursuit of love that this show is about. Mel pretty quickly dismisses this conversation

and says, no, I think they are. As a lead, Joan, when somebody would come to you and say something like this, do you listen? How do you respond, what do you take from it? So I'm thinking about people that have done this in the past, and this happens all the time, especially on just regular Bachelor and Bachelorette seasons, happens pretty often. And I feel like the lead is always very conflicted about not necessarily

wanting to believe them. And sometimes the messenger becomes the person they're mad at, and not the intended person that maybe they should be wary of. So all, of a sudden the messenger becomes the bad guy. And I think that's what happened in this one also, that he didn't really want to believe it. And even if she had told him that it was Nicole, I think he's not thinking with his head and his heart right now, to be honest. I'm hoping he starts thinking with the right body parts. But I think at this time, he's not, and he would have dismissed it anyway, even if she said the name. As a lead, I think I would want to know, but you just never know what people's motives are.

Sure. So I'm not sure that you want to dive into that. And maybe you need to discover things yourself. And I'm hoping that Mel discovers this himself. I mean, she's so out there with her statements. Eventually, she's going to say something to him. Yeah. I just can't imagine that she's going to hide it from him for much longer.

I think it was such a fear of mine that there would be people there with all interior motives that if somebody would have said it to me, and they did, I think I just would have asked a few questions. I'm with you on, hey, I'm not going to take this as the only truth. But I want to be able to investigate it or at least to be knowledgeable of it. And if anything, maybe confront some of the people that were brought up and just say, hey, like, you know, the simple question, you know, I don't need to tell them who told me, but why are you here? Like, what excites you about this experience and about, you know, what you're going through just to get nuggets a little bit of. information, you know, I think, yes, you're right. If the person that says it oftentimes is the one

that gets in trouble, very rarely do we see that go the other direction? Yeah, but I would have asked a few more questions. I don't think I just would have dismissed it and said, no, no, no, I know everything. Yeah. Do you think that Robin would have told him the name if he had asked? Yes, I think she wanted to so bad. I know. I wonder why he didn't ask. I kept thinking who was going to ask like who who are you you know talking about so i don't think he wanted to know yeah i just he would have asked the name which points to one of two things to me either he just doesn't care like at all it is he isn't not invested into this at all there's no emotion behind the those the intention or like whatever yeah that's fine i'm having a good time we're doing it like i haven't cried yet

i haven't really had a hard time yet i'm going to keep doing this this way or he doesn't know to ask the question, meaning he doesn't know maybe he hasn't watched any other seasons. He doesn't even know what the path forward would look like if he did find out. But wouldn't you know, like it was so easy to just say, it's almost surprising he didn't say, well, who are you talking about? Yeah. So I think it's the, you know, what you said in the beginning, he doesn't care.

Yeah. He must not really care. And that's concerning for me. Yeah. again, I think the best thing for him and this season would be a moment of vulnerability that he displays for us to go, yeah, you're in this, man. Like, you care, you're in it. Yeah.

You're invested, which I haven't seen it yet. But one of the big storylines of this episode that just fell short, quite honestly, was the women are back at the mansion the next day. And they're preparing for this tailgate. They're making Mel's favorite dessert, which is lemon bars. We see Nicole's. It's hilarious. sharing that this was her idea

and she's doing all the work. Yeah. We see her in the hot tub with a mask on and the women going, yeah, Nicole just sat out there with a mask on and watch things. They make these lemon bars. Mm-hmm.

And then during the tailgate, Nicole brings them to Mel and says that she made these for him and she talks about how she made him and that she made him with the thin crust because it's the way he likes it. Mm-hmm. It fell short to me because this,

this wasn't this wasn't a small act in my opinion these women invested time and effort and it could have been all of them they all kissed them one night together why not bring the men bars to them together uh and just share hey we're all thinking about you but she decides to do it herself yet we see no follow up from it that's kind of what what where it ends um and it so the story was never concluded it was never brought to service this i mean I mean, Joan, you've been a part of the show. This feels like the easiest producer moment ever. Hey, do you know that Nicole brought Mel, those lemon bars that you guys all made today?

And that's where they leave it. Like they tell the one girl that they know, like Robin, who's going to be already upset and say something about it. But we see nothing. It's very odd that you're right, that they just kind of let it hang. Like it was done. And he was like, oh, they're good lemon bars. And then it was kind of over. And I, like, you know, so I don't know the producers this year at all because they, you know,

You know, the franchise kind of had an upheaval last year and there's all different people. But I feel the same way about you. Like, they just missed this whole opportunity to, you know, have. So they're allowing this weird drama with Nicole, like with her just playing it out in her head with everybody else. But when there is like real drama, like this is actually something that they should be mad at her about. They don't ever get the opportunity to do that to like say, no, she didn't make it. Like she literally went and sat in the hot tub. And like specifically the crest, like you're talking about the crust.

they show like Jerry and somebody else like actually rolling out the crust and Nicole in the hot tub like specifically the crust is the thing that I made it because it's extra thin and I know that's how you like it like she really didn't do that. This could be lemon bar gate

just like we've had shrimp gate in the past and this could be an iconic moment for the show and it also could have been a moment in the show that's memorable that maybe made Mel take a step into something uncomfortable and confront something, but we don't see it. We see a small little comment from Cindy about how she took credit, but it feels like it

just comes and goes, yet it's such a big, long story. And again, it makes me think, is it Bachelor trying to keep her around because she's creating controversy? And so if he discovers that she's lying about this, is he then going to send her home and not give her a rose this week? yeah i i think that's probably the only outcome i think you're right i think but then again it makes me ask the question why do they show it unless they want the audience to maybe be upset uh yeah but the audience is going to be upset already it's really what i think the audience wants to see is

mel do something that feels human and have to respond to something that feels uncomfortable yeah we haven't seen yet yeah and he doesn't get the chance to do that. And it would have been a perfect time for him to maybe get rid of Nicole because like we are all seeing from the outside that that needs to happen and that he's not thinking with his head and his heart. He's thinking with other things. It's all physical with him right now with her. Like when is he ever going to like get in touch with reality and what she really is like? Because she's only showing good sides of her. He's not seeing all the stuff we're seeing. Yeah. I'm with you. It's just I think it's a little bit of caring and I think it's a little bit of awareness. And I think it's a little bit of the, the women in the house, you know, combating some of this. But he's gotten rid of the combatters at this point. Robin was trying to say something to him. Yeah, we see at the rose ceremony that Peg and Carrey already have roses, Debbie, Cindy, Cheryl, and Nicole get roses, which means Roxanne, Robin, and Jerry are going home. We see Jerry kind of be the focal point of the exits.

Mm-hmm. I feel like they never developed any farther. Like first date rose or like whatever, the first impression rose. She got that. I love that she got that because she was kind of like an unlikely person to me. I thought, I didn't think she was going to get it. I thought someone that made a bigger entrance usually gets that. But he felt something about her.

It just never grew. I didn't feel like it ever really grew. And continued on this group. date. I didn't feel like there was any chemistry between them on this date. So I feel like it never grew. But I love that he did say like, that wasn't a mistake. I really had a connection with you that first night. And it's okay if it doesn't grow. Like it, you know, it is what it is. There are other people that he felt a bigger connection with. But I felt like she went home happy. Like she had her moment and, and she grew from it. And I think that she's now opened the door to dating and, you know,

like having a different life that she didn't have before she came this happened to me. I mean, same kind of thing happened to me. I went into Golden Bachelor, not really ready to date and not really open to the whole thing. I just kind of did it on a whim and thought, well, I'm just going to, you know, throw caution to the wind and take a leap of faith and see how this works. And I came out a completely different person. And I feel like that's happened to Jerry also. Yeah, I agree.

I think she will only be better for this experience. And it's going to be a good story to share. It'll be fun maybe to see. her be one of the goldens in paradise if they bring paradise back that would be fun i know they all jump in the pool with their clothes on it in the rose ceremony really funny really cute and then we see the previews for next week there looks like they're at some spiritual retreat we can also see dates at the griffith observatory so it looks like they're still in los angeles during this next episode and uh we see some kissing we see debby telling mel she

She's falling in love with him. And then we kind of see the big moment where there's an SUV that pulls up. It looks like to one of their dates, it maybe is a group date or they're on a hike of some kind. Any insight, Joan, into what you think that could be? So as far as like a spiritual retreat, I feel like it's going to be really out of Mel's comfort zone. I just think that's going to be weird. And I feel like Bachelor loves to do these spiritual things. And they're always so uncomfortable.

I was so uncomfortable at the one on my season. I can't remember. Did you do a spirit, like one of those yoga or one of those weird things? It's a new thing, huh? Yeah. They're uncomfortable. I can't seem they'll being really great at a spiritual kind of retreat kind of thing.

And then the fact that a SUV pulls up, does he finally figure out Nicole? I don't know. Maybe all of this is leading up to that. So I don't know. I feel like Cheryl is, I feel like she's acting a little bit.

Like over-dramatizing something? Yeah, a little bit. So, yeah, I don't know. What do you think it is? I can't think other than I think Nicole, because maybe they're leading up to this and we're going to be happy when she gets sent home. Yeah, maybe.

Yeah. I mean, it just, you know, if it was a medical emergency, we would have seen EMS. So it's a black car, which means we're seeing an exit of some type. I actually thought it was somebody coming to the show. To me, I thought it was somebody arriving,

but then I think the words are saying she left. Yeah, and her saying, I can't believe she's gone. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious. It does feel like a big moment during this season that they're going to tease probably for a few weeks here. What it does point me to is that Cheryl might be around a while.

Yeah. We'll see. Joan, any other comments that we haven't covered when it comes to this season so far on the Golden Bachelor? I think we covered Nicole pretty well. I feel like I am missing some dates that need to happen. Like, I feel like Carol really needs a date. I love that she gets the group date rose, so I hope we see more of her. Cheryl's had a date.

Cindy needs a date. Looks like she gets one, though, right? We see her kind of kissing him. So I feel like Cindy gets one. Debbie's getting great. Nicole's kind of gotten one. Peg's gotten one. So I feel like, you know, I need Carol to have something.

I'm hoping we see more from her. I really, really like her. Yeah, I'm with you. That's a great comment and something to stay tuned for next episodes. Joan, it is always a gift to have you in our presence. You are incredible at this. It is so fun to break this down with you. Thank you for answering all the questions of the behind the scenes.

of the golden but also giving your input into what we're seeing currently on the golden's um we wish you the best we hope that you and chalk can do many more new york city tours together and next time if we're there at the same time please message us and tell us you're there i will um if it's not like a hey we haven't seen each other in a couple months we just need our own time kind of trip we would love to see you well i will definitely do that next time joan you're the best uh until next time i've been ben i've been joan see you later follow the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast on IHartRadio

or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke.

A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to heavyweight on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying.

I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Introducing IVF disrupted, the kind body story. A podcast about a company that promised to revolution. It grew like a tech startup.

While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like in the right hand. You're just not. Listen to IvyF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield.

It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Grigoriatus, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition.

Listen to Model Wars on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast.