The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast - When a Greek life Ritual turns deadly

Episode Date: June 14, 2026

Fraternity Hazing… we know it exists although many deny it.  It’s a longstanding tradition but it can be dismissed as harmless.  It’s considered a rite of passage for pledges, but what happens when things go too far? Jennifer Fessler is joined by Eric and Linda Oakes who have decided to share the story of their son’s tragic death and its ties to his fraternity.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So they are a couple who lost their son, Adam Oaks, due to a fraternity hazing incident that happened almost five years ago. So their story is highlighted in this really unbelievable documentary. It's called 4,000 Days. It's actually premiering soon at the Tribeca Film Festival. festival on June 10th. And this is, again, this is a different type of episode. And it's, we really try at Dirty Rush to highlight the good, the bad and the ugly. And this certainly is, falls under the ugly category. Hazing. We're talking in this instance about fraternity hazing is,

it can be scary. And for this couple and for many other couples, it can be fatal. So we think that it's important to, you know, talk about all aspects of Greek life and hope. Hopefully, you guys as listeners, will take some of this in and, you know, can use it in one way or another. So this amazing, and I mean amazing documentary previewed on June 10th at the Tribeca Film Festival. And it is incredible, very difficult and sad to watch, but really, really important. Hi, Jen. How are you? Hi. What a pleasure and really an honor to meet you both. Thank you so much for coming on.

I'm still spinning from this film. And I think of Adam since I've seen it. I think of him all the time. I mean, I only saw it. I saw it, I don't know, a few days ago, but the sweetness of your boy. And I'll get, like, choked up just talking about it. Yeah, you get me choked up. Just, you know, the way you guys spoke of him and him being your only child

and the way that you talked about, we have to do this interview. you, but I want to just tell you that I do think about him often. And I'm so sorry for your unimaginable loss. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And what's conveyed in the movie and what, I mean, that's how, that's who he was. I mean, truthfully, that he was. He was a great kid and a shining light.

And it's terrible that he's not here anymore. I couldn't see it in the movie from the way you all have responded to this. You're very special. I can't and courageous. And the movie is inspiring and so sad and tragic, but also, I don't know, it says something in terms of like the human condition that you all rose up from this tragedy and you have done such good and important work, you know. Thank you so much. You're very kind and sweet for saying so. Thank you. It's the truth. We just don't want to come off looking stupid. Stupid. Meaning like we were trying to have them on the stage and trying to have them, you know, talk about what happened.

And, you know, I don't want a lot of people going, you know. There was no one that looks stupid. I don't want to get too into it. Right. It's the weeds here. But in my humble opinion, except boys that once they didn't have to showing up for you guys. So I don't know why in the world you would think that you looked stupid. You look like two of the most courageous people that I know that I've ever, it's the truth.

How do you guys feel about the fact that this is about to happen, right? That this, the premiere is like now. Yeah, we're super excited. And, you know, it's been four years. Not such a long time. Right, right. And I understand a lot of documentaries take even longer to make. And this one is, it's very important.

important that it gets out there and agreed. People see it and parents can watch it with their kids that are going off to college. Grandparents can watch it, you know. It's something that the story needs to be told. I think it should be prerequisite

for seniors and entering freshmen. Right. And that's what our foundation does. We do presentations to high school students. Yep. And we go over the things that Adam didn't have that night. We show our movie, The Death of a Pledge. I'm not sure if you saw, if you've seen that

or not. I haven't seen it, but I know about it. Okay. It's, it's 22 minutes long and it's not, I mean, it, it encompasses our work in, you know, a very short time. But, and then afterwards, we talk about the dangers of alcohol poisoning and what to do to get help, you know, bystander intervention and to call 911. Right. And then we do questions and answers with the seniors in high school and it's everyone that we've ever talked to and we get feedback from at the end of the presentation and everybody has said that this is the most impactful presentation that they've ever had and you know they needed this information going into college yeah I saw the looks on the students faces you know you showed it during the film and how how

taken aback they were and how touched that they were and I mean, if my kid had had an experience like that, an assembly, or I know that both of my kids would have been very impacted by that. And I feel like this work that you're doing, it's been 4,000 days and more than that, right? It's been this kind of the work that you have taken on. It's exhausting. And also I would think scary. I mean, was it scary for you to face the politics of it all? and, you know, going into, you know, dealing with Congress and laws and politicians. So we first approached our state senator, Jennifer Boycego, here in Virginia, and we crafted Adams law, and she's a sweetheart. And she, the first second she heard, you know, what happened to Adam,

she really wanted to reach out because it's a very tight-knit community. we have here in northern Virginia. And so she was all ears, like, you tell me what your bill wants to look like. So by having that Virginia experience already with the Adams Law passing, when we went to Congress, we kind of knew what they expect. When we met with Tim Cain and Mark Warner and Donald McKeachan and some of the other representatives, I mean, they were all, they'd all known what had happened and they were wanting to reach out to us sooner. But, you know, and some of them sent letters of, you know, sympathy, you know.

And but getting to stop campus hazing act passed was huge. And they were, every one of were full supporters of the bill and signed on immediately. Can you tell our listeners about Adams law? Sure. So Adam's Law is in the state of Virginia. When we crafted Adam's Law, we went through, what did Adam not have that night that he desperately needed? One was a thorough in-person hazing prevention education. So here it is. These colleges are just pushing out PowerPoints. And most kids just could go, next slide, next slide, next slide, done. Right? And they don't read it. They don't understand it. So by making them do an in-person, you know, education, you actually have to get in front of them and connect with them. And then so that was the first thing.

Then the second thing is a bystander awareness portion of the bill that protects the person that calls 911 to get help for that individual that's in trouble. Right. even if they're part of the hazing. But, you know, just to encourage people to do the right thing. And nowadays, you can text 911, you know, to get somebody help. Just tell them the address and there's somebody here. And it'll be anonymous. You know, you don't have to, you know, make a phone call.

Listen, even you're saying this, like the whoever's listening right now, if it's me listening, I'm thinking, okay, I got to go get my son. So, Zach, if something happens, even if you were involved in it, 9-1-1-1, like these are such important things for these kids to know. Exactly. And the fact that you all, you know, past Adams Law, these are, I think that this documentary, this film, the exposure is going to be, the reach is going to be so far and wide. I personally think after watching it because I was so taken with it myself and want any friend of mine who has any kid going to college, girl or boy, by the way. way to watch it, right? But those are things that I don't think people do really know about yet, right? And you're making, thank God, you're making that difference. I want to ask you a little bit

about when you went back to Adams' frat house. And after some time in terms of doing that, how do you feel about it now? You know, Linda, I know you couldn't go there. And I don't know that I could have either as a mother been in that space. But do you feel like it helped you at all? Eric, do you feel like now looking back at it it was a good thing to do? Yeah, so I actually encourage Dan to go up to the door and to go to the house and see if they would allow us, you know,

to come in, which I didn't think that they would. But stepping back, like just a part of the movie, I had no idea where Adam passed, where his body was. And something just took me to that location. We didn't receive the body cam footage from the city of Richmond police until months later. I can't imagine, by the way, how horrible that must have been for you guys to watch. It really was. I just can't even imagine.

I actually gave Dan the film and I didn't watch it. And then he blurred out Adam's image. And then it made it somewhat bearable for us to watch. But if we saw Adam Spotty Ling there, we would. So there's a lot of things that, you know, when making the movie, we trusted Dan a lot. He's wonderful. We interviewed him. He's amazing.

He put, you know, a camera crew following us and we were miced up, you know, throughout these presentations. Which is scary, you guys. It's very, I would think that it would be scary for you both, especially after what you've been through. And I'm just going to say you handled it like pros both of you. Linda, it seems like it was maybe, well, especially going. I know you didn't want to go into the house, but this is not an easy thing, right? I don't know. I don't think you guys were press people before all of this happened.

So in the best of circumstances, right, it would be hard. But you were so open and vulnerable and honest about what happened. And it's going to make a huge difference. It really will. I know that it will, you guys. That's our hope. that's our hope that people take it seriously and they know what we've experienced and what we've gone through and they don't have to.

Yeah. And then they can have a conversation with their kids, you know, about it. And then the kids, the message that we want to convey is that you're not invincible, you know. So be very careful when you, you know, do dangerous things. Yeah. I was very taken with the restorative justice program. And I think that most of our listeners, I'm hoping we'll have already seen or are going to see the film. But that was so impactful.

So tell us a little bit about how that came to be. And then I know that the boys sort of dropped off at one point. But I thought it was so powerful when they were involved. Tell us a little bit about that. Either one of you, please. So for me, when we were going through the plea agreements, Alison Martin, the DA in the city of Richmond, said that, I mean, there's several things. that we wanted, we wanted to read this victim impact statement. And she's like, no, I have to read it.

You can write it. I'll read it. And I'm like, I'm sure I would have deviated from it, you know, and so I'm kind of glad that she did that. But then I said, well, I want them to allocute. I want them to say exactly what they did and didn't do, like meaning call 911 for help. Right. And then they left them there. So, I mean, I want to, I want to. them to allocute. And then she goes, no, no, that doesn't, it doesn't work like that. And I mean, I guess I watched too much law and order, you know, because they always do that. And it makes the victims feel better that they admit their wrongdoing. Right. But then when I understood that we couldn't do that, I just one of the sleepless nights that I had of many, after Adam's

passing, I was searching the web and I ran across something about restorative justice. And Linda has always been telling me, and I felt the same way, that we really want to know what Adam's final moments, what his final hours of life were like. And as a parent, you really need to know. You need to know. I mean, what were they doing to him? You know, what, yeah. And would they just get him there to F with them? Or did they get him there? because they really wanted him to be a brother. Those text messages were so disgusting and horrible. Made me sick. Sickening.

I asked that kid flat out, did you go harder on him because he was fat? And he was like, no, no, no. He didn't. When we got those texts, oh, my God. I felt, you know what, obviously, I didn't feel like what you felt, but I wanted, when I saw those texts came out, I just, as a viewer, for you all to know, that the horror when I saw them and the anger and the like the fury of that for me again it wasn't my son

and I think that this film you guys will have that effect on so many it was just so disgusting and awful and didn't even feel human right just awful those text messages came out we we unearthed that information when we did the civil suit so we We didn't have that during the criminal, which in Virginia you do first and then a civil, you know, you do after the criminal's done. So we didn't have that information and the police didn't, you know, subpoena their phones or they really didn't do much because in the state of Virginia, it's only a misdemeanor to hate someone to death. It's not a felony. So if it was a felony, they would have grabbed phones. They would have, you know, I mean, they didn't even really gather any evidence.

They didn't answer the 911 calls either. They didn't answer the 911 calls. So there's so many things that happened that night that Adam needed help. And so what happened was the neighbors next door because of noise, you know, because they were really loud, called three times and placed complaints that, you know, they need to come over and break up the party. And they didn't show up. Who are you all suing at this point? Everything's done now. So I know there's a part in the movie where Gary says after about five years, you start, you know, things get a little lighter, things get easier.

So for us, the first three years, we were dealing with the criminal investigation. We were dealing with the trials. We were dealing with, you know, the civil suits and things like that. So up until close to the fourth year, we really hadn't grieved. So I think what Gary was meaning is all that stuff is behind you at that point, hopefully at the four to five year mark. And then you can start healing, you know, we're trying to heal. They're amazing. How do you hold on for 4,000 days?

Yeah. Who doesn't give up? Yeah, the birthplace are amazing. The fortitude that they had to continue because they kind of after the second or third Congress that, you know, didn't proceed, you know, to the floor to a vote. So they could have just given up and then. It wasn't just them, you guys. It was all of you. And it was brilliant in the film the way the days were ticked off, right?

And I thought that was so powerful. Just, you know, like it's amazing that they just kept going and going and going and going. And you all kept showing up and showing up and fighting for these kids. I hope that our listeners, when they listen, have either seen the film. I want them to understand the restorative justice that I hadn't heard of before the film, which is when you all with these boys that had hazed your son to death,

went with you to, well, first of all, they had a watch, and then they went with you all, two different schools to talk about it and to own what they had done, which I thought was so powerful, right? And I thought was, and I know that after they didn't have to do that anymore, at least that's at the end of the film,

that I don't know if they've reached out to you all since, but they stopped showing up. And I don't, I can't, obviously, I can't speak to that. I don't really know these kids. But I thought it was so powerful to have them there and to take responsibility, maybe even, maybe, I don't know, even more so than if they had gone to prison or been punished in a different way. You're absolutely right. That was our thinking all along because once we figured out that it's a misdemeanor, even to provide alcohol to a minor, and even if it causes their death in the state of Virginia, it's still a misdemeanor.

So once it was driven into our brains that they weren't going to go to jail for any years or any length of time, we were like, we need to make some good come out of this bad situation. And we had already developed the Love Like Adam Foundation, and one of our big thing was the presentation. And so by having them come and speak to, you know, their peers, I mean, because as I'm sitting up there speaking to audience of young adults. Osiaga, with four nights at residents in downtown Montreal, flights from Porter Airlines, two weekend gold tickets, and $1,000 cash. Please love it. Lord, Zara Larson, Tema Gray, Sombor, 21 pilots, and more. Download IHard Radio.

Listen to Iheart new music for 10 minutes and enter to win. Osiaga, 26. Every day you listen is another chance to win. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black.

It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, yeah. Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets. I would think so.

Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife-12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. were you nervous to do that? I don't know how much public speaking you had done in the past. Zero. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm still not good at it.

Yes, you most certainly are. You most certainly are. Well, thank you. I mean, honestly, there were times where I know you couldn't even speak there.

I watched, you know, that it was hard to get up there. But whatever you, whenever you did speak, it was powerful. It always felt like, you know,

the most powerful moments. And I don't know. You know, listen, there's, I can think that there's, I don't even know how to say it. There's nothing good about any of this, but maybe good things will come because of it. You know, I don't know, you guys, because I, this film touched me in a way that I watch a lot of crime documentaries, you know, for my podcast. And this one is specifically inspiring. Do you guys tell me a little bit about your relationship with the families? And has that helped you in the film itself, making this?

film with them. Has that helped? And I know nothing is going to heal you completely and you're not going to be able. But does it in moments, does it take some of the burden off by sharing? Absolutely. Whenever you talk to somebody that's walked in your footsteps, you know, or we're walking in their footsteps because most of the people we've talked to have happened before Adam. And so in the hazing world, Adams, somewhat still, I guess, recent, you know, because it's only been five years. But it's, yeah, I mean, just having that connection with the people and, you know, they're able to comfort you and know what you're feeling and what you're going through is amazing.

And to have that tight-knit group of people is important. And, yeah. I think I got really, really close to Stone Fultz's parents. Yeah. Because he died like a week after Adam. And Julie and Gary. Yeah. I just love being with them.

They make me feel so much better. They love being with you. They said it. They said how, I mean, I'm watching you guys embrace each other. other, I don't know, there's so many parts of this that like the heartbreak and then like, you know, finding comfort, you know, with each other. How was it to watch it? It was hard because it was hard but also rewarding.

I mean, at the same time, you know, I mean, we, Dan actually came and to our home and he flew in and previewed it with us because he really wanted to get our take on it. And I mean, do you think a big network or a studio would ever do that? I mean, they're just going to pump something out and then go on to the next project. But that's why we love Dan, you know, because he wanted our input. He wanted to make sure, you know, that our message was conveyed. And he did an incredible job. And, I mean, he's a lifelong friend.

Yeah. I mean, that's how he speaks of you all as well. I got the pleasure of talking to him. You know, there are parts of this that, and he was so brilliant in creating this. And I say that for many reasons, one of which is that there were pieces of it that were so personal and that, like, when you all, Linda, when you described spending time with Adam because he was the only child and you were the one that was playing video games with him. And for whatever reason as a mother, you know, it's, you. it's very easy to watch, I don't know, a documentary or a film and watch it and feel, but feel outside of it somehow, right?

Like, that's not me. But there were certain parts of this, like that moment when you describe playing those video games, that it felt like I could see that, you know, me and my son and just made it so personal. It was just beautiful. Those parts of it, you know, were so beautiful, just knowing that about him, right? and he was so adorable looking and sweet and handsome. All of that.

Yeah. And I guess I hope that that brings you guys knowing that this film's out there and other people are going to get to know him and get to know what you all have been through will help somehow. You know, that is my hope for you. Everybody says that they wish they'd met him in that. Yes. I really wish I had met him.

I would have hugged him very hard. He seems like the kid that you would just want to hug and that you'd want to hug you. Yeah, and that's his thing was he was a big hugger. You know, like his friend said, my last memory of Adam is, you know, when we were leaving, I just felt like I had to get out of the car to give him one last hug goodbye, you know?

Yeah. I mean, those are crushing. But when he left to go to Richmond, Linda was taking him to Richmond and I was on a Zoom call for work and then the Zoom call ended early and I heard the garage door and I said I got to get one more

hug goodbye from him and so I ran downstairs, caught him just as he was getting ready to leave. I mean, I wouldn't have that memory. I wouldn't have that, you know. I'm so glad you got to do that. I didn't know that would be the last time I'd embrace him.

It's hard. I cannot. I don't even imagine. Do you guys feel like looking at all this, there's anything valuable about Greek? Like, I know you guys, some of you feel differently, but is there any value to Greek life? Do you like to see it abolished completely? Yeah. I just wanted to be what it's supposed to be.

Yeah. It's supposed to be camaraderie. It's supposed to be friendship. Brotherhood. Yeah. Philanthropy. Doing good things for people. Yeah.

And that's not what it's turned into. And it's not been that way for years. And even if they can get away with it, who does that? Like some kids are setting each other on fire. I know. It's crazy. And they're pushing the envelope. They're trying to, you know, one-up each other.

And now you have social media. So they put it on social media and then, you know, share it around and what they're doing. And, yeah. I mean, so for us, we're realists. We know it's not going to go away. You don't think it ever will? No. And not unless it happens to somebody important.

A death happens to somebody important, like a senator's child or grandchild or that's the way it always works. Until it happens to somebody that's important, you know, our kids apparently aren't that important. It's the cost of doing business. I know. I know these are probably just work, but Adam was important. Now that I know him, he's important to me. And he's going to be very important to. I hope so.

He will be. He will be, you guys. He was a gift to us from God. Yeah. No, I know you talked about it, about all of that was so touching. You couldn't get pregnant, and he was an only child, and your, you know, experience with him. And I can't imagine how you all are, it hasn't been that long, still holding up. But I hope that making the film has helped you, you know, and knowing people and getting the support and knowing that,

This film is going to change things. I don't know how big those changes will be. I'm not saying it's going to abolish hazing, but it's going to change things. I think for parents primarily, right? Like to see it. And then there's especially the ones that are about to send their kids away to college. Exactly.

Let them have a conversation with their child. Have that conversation or they're not coming home. Yes. Exactly. And I think most parents don't. That might be the most important conversation you have with your child. child ever. Yeah. I said earlier, when I was talking to Gary, I said if I had had, if I'd watched

the film before my kids are now adults, they're 24 and 26, but if I had watched it before they went to college, we would have had a very different goodbye talk than what we had. And when they said they wanted to join Greek life, that would have been a very different discussion. And I think a lot of parents will have a very different discussion, you know, with their kids now. So the civil suit is over, right? It's done. And where are you guys going from here?

You've been doing heroic work. So what is your next course of action here? Are you going to try to take a little break from the limelight? Yeah. So our hope is to tighten up Adams Law in Virginia because there's a couple loopholes. And then also go back to Congress. or excuse me, go back to the General Assembly in Virginia about making it a felony to haste someone to death or severely bodily injure somebody.

How can that not be a felony? If it's under the heading of hazing, like you could do anything? If it's under the heading of a hazing and you murder someone, that's not a felony? That's a misdemeanor? Look at what happened to Caleb Wilson and Louisiana. some of the adults, they were adults, they were like 25 years old. That fraternity, they punched the pledges, and they punched Caleb in this chest so hard that I believe he had a heart attack and, you know, and died.

I mean, that's murder. So, but they have this blanket of coverage, you know, that they can say it's hazing. You know, we were hanging him. He wanted to be in. He agreed to have it done to the. that kind of stuff. And to get that mindset of, you know, even though the individual agreed to, you know,

participate, it's still not their fault at all. You know, it's they want to get into a group, an organization, a club, a team, whatever it is. And the older members know that and take advantage of it. And every year it continues to get worse and worse. And we're not even. talking about the hundreds of thousands of students annually that go through the mental health issues. We passed a bill. We supported a family's bill that requires all Virginia colleges. If a student

comes to them and says, I've been hazed, they have to provide mental health services for that student. So state of Virginia, you know, at least the higher education, that's one, that's a big step. Can the kid go there anonymously and say, this is the frat and is the university then required to take action? Yes. Yeah. And was that, okay, so that was part of Adams law or that was part of the, a separate bill that was brought to the floor by a different family. But we supported the measure. And we already knew all the lawmakers, you know, most of them at least. And so we, you know, got them to get on board with it. But they absolutely, yeah, so it's not part of Adam's law.

But if a student comes to counselors or staff at a university or college, they're required by law to provide them mental health services. Someone to talk to about what happened. And then from there, it's up to the university and the student to proceed with charges or investigations or whatever. So we're hoping that, you know, that starts the conversation of what happened and then, you know, they can do an investigation. And then the last bill that we just worked on passing in Virginia is, it's huge. So it requires the state of Virginia, both public and private schools,

to provide a hazing prevention education for students in ninth or tenth grade. That's incredible. It is. It's the only state that has this law. And to make sure that it gets implemented, we wrote it into the standard of learning, which is standardized testing that every student takes at the end of the year to show they went over these materials. So at the end of the year, to gauge where your child is performing, the state of Virginia has something called standard of learning.

So you take a generalized test that went over all the things that you've learned that quarter, that year. And so there's questions on that test about hazing prevention. It's mandatory. It's mandatory. So it makes them teach it, you know, and not because, I mean, honestly, the health teachers, there's, I mean, they're already up here with all the materials that they have to teach. And we're piling more on their plate. So most are choosing to teach it in ninth grade. So anyway, this is huge because now, you know, we provided Love Like Adam Foundation created

and provided a curriculum for those students and for the school districts in Virginia. And we'll offer it to every state for free. And we will go through and we'll tailor it to, you know, the laws of those states. And we'll do it all for free if they, if somebody wants it. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, we've been talking to other states, Ohio, North Carolina, West Virginia, Washington, about crafting something for them and they can co-brand it and take our materials. And we offer the movie Death of a Pledge because that's part of the, I don't know,

I mean, you need to see both sides of it. You need to see the family side, but then you also need to see from the people that haze, you know, that their opinion on what's going on because nobody's ever really talked to them. And that's kind of the restorative justice that we were talking about. That's where you get both the defendant and the plaintiff together or the victim. And you talk about what happened that night or you talk about the incident. I don't think it was great for wrongful death. but it gives each of us a forum to, you know, get off our chest, the things that were really bothering us.

And it's also a big healing moment, you know, for both sides. When you say for both sides, these kids, I do, I have to tell myself also, but they were, you know, the boys, their brain doesn't develop until 26 or something. Their frontal lobe, right? And so maybe there's some grace in those, no, I don't know. I'm sure you guys can't give grace at all. But you're speaking like there's some that these boys that were there and contributed to the death of your son, you know, something out of this as well. Do you actually care about that? They had a snow.

We had them believing that, you know, they were remorseful and they were. I didn't get him help or I'm sorry. I didn't, you know. Justin especially. And then when you see, when you really get the information and you really get the truth, you know, based on the. text messages. He was lying on the floor dying and they're making fun of him. Did they ever just sit down with you guys alone or say anything to you? That's what the restorative justice was. We didn't see that, right? We saw them in the schools. We saw you go through the movie theater

and say thank you guys, thanks to you guys for being here. But I don't, we didn't, I don't remember seeing that one on one. Yeah, the restorative justice was about three months before that part that you're talking about in the movie. And it's the court that does it. So it's very structured and you can't have cameras there. And so you can't even talk about what you talked about. You can just talk about the generalization of what happened. So there's a restorative justice person there that facilitates.

And then there's two community members, at least in ours there were. and then there's each the young man, you know, the president, the big brother, the pledge master, each one came in separately. And they didn't have their parents with them. So I give them, you know, props for that who are coming in and manning up and, you know, doing it on their own. And then there was Linda, myself, and my niece, Courtney White. And so we had a bunch of questions. and, you know, they also got to talk, you know, to us and ask questions and say things. And they've, everybody's lowered up.

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I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career?

Yes, sir. Rape and murder for a child. She's as bad as it gets. I would think so. Evil, wake up. I'm the woman saw the murder take place by crevette and de Pippo.

Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the devil's quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to love of Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. You can't order it, you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life.

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Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that. never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live

them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Did they have questions? What kind of questions did they've had for you? Well, when we first started asking them questions. One started lying and we immediately shot it down by letting them know, you know, we know this is what happened. We have several people that said that and then they kind of backtracked and like, oh no, they kind of know about a lot of these things. So I better tell the truth, you know. And but I think some of the, most of the things that they said to us were we've lawyered up, we can't really, you know, say anything to you before this.

So we thank you for doing this because it gives us an avenue to tell you that we're sorry, that we, you know, that this happened and it wasn't our intent. And Linda, you don't believe them? You think you were snowed? No, I still, yeah, I still don't, I still don't know where Jason was. Jason is a president, and he's supposed to be sober that night, he said. that he was sober that night. But I don't hear anything about Jason through this whole thing.

It's like he wasn't there. And I know Andrew left him. Andrew's his big brother. But Jason was there the whole night and he was sober the whole night. And he saw what was happening to Adam. And he was one of the ones that helped him from outside when his legs were buckling. And then saw him pass out on the floor. And he claimed that he watched him for a few hours.

and I mean and then when they heard him snoring you know Adam didn't snore the 19 year old kid you know and he just thought he was sleeping and then they left him so I mean

and VCU is a huge medical school and nursing and doctors and and I asked I said are any of you trained in you know the medical field to make the determination that

this person doesn't need help, they're going to sleep it off. And all of them are like, no, no. And I said, the bottom line is that, you know, we're stuck living with just the rest of our lives. And, you know, Adam doesn't even have a life anymore. You know, he's not going to graduate. He's not going to, you know, get a rewarding job. He's not going to have a wife.

He's not going to have kids. We're not going to have grandkids. I mean, the whole, just because of one night of somebody's fun, you know, or somebody recklessly taking advantage of somebody and we want it to stop, you know, and it's happening so much now. We just hear about it. And maybe it's because we're pulled into that, that world, you know, but now we're hearing horrific things, you know, that was similar to what happened to Adam. And then just dumb things like parents and grandparents parents or alumni of that fraternity so they didn't press charges or they didn't do a full

investigation or just I mean it's just it's and some of these kids have permanent damage and it's like no this is how we correct you know our curriculum goes through improvement science which is like root cause so you figure out the root cause of why this is happening I mean it's traditions it's culture It's just bad, bad behavior. And once you come up with a root cause of the bad behavior, then you create an action plan to try and, you know, implement changing it. And the only way that we know how is by telling the story and by teaching kids younger, you know, ninth, maybe 10th grade or even middle school,

about the dangers. And then when they keep hearing this reinforced message, By the time they get to college, it'd be like, I've heard about this hazing stuff. And this is how I'm stupid. I don't want to be haze. And I don't want to haze anyone else. I didn't like it when it happened to me. I mean, that's when we look at domestic violence and sexual assault.

We didn't like it when it happened to us. So why would we do it to somebody else? Right. I mean, it's you got to. And it takes everybody. It takes the parents, the individuals, the schools, the alumni. And the alumni are just as bad. I mean, they're 40.

50-year-old men that are acting like, you know, they're 15 again. And it's nuts. Eric, what do you, how do our listeners, how can they help? How do they get involved with the foundation? Any links that you can tell us about or where could they go on social media? Yeah. So, so first off, if you want access to a death of a pledge, which is a 22-minute video, it's it's it's it's on the PBS website so we partner it's on YouTube I watch it's on YouTube also but but the PBS has a YouTube page so yeah you can access it either way but I encourage people to sit down with their you know their kids and and it's not it's not a hard watch it's sad but it's it'll open up the conversation it's condensed I mean I think

Yeah, I mean, it is extremely powerful. Okay, so that was the first thing. The second thing is on our website, you know, there's all kinds of educational information. You can tell us your website? Sure, it's www.lovelikeadam.com. And all of our social media, you can follow us on social media. We don't put out a ton of posts, so we're not bogging down your feed with a bunch of useless things. but we're on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and that's Love Like Adam.

And then we use his picture, his graduation picture. So there's some sense of consistency as far as the branding goes. So you know you're in the right place. But yeah, and if you need resources or if you need help, I mean, we're always there. Our emails are right there on the page, our contact information. I mean, we want to be in this with everybody. And, you know, we come out and present. We've been in Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, of course.

So, I mean, we've been in Ohio. We've been in a lot of different states, and we're not afraid to travel. And we just want the bad behavior to stop. Yeah. At the West Coast, really bad. We do. There's colleges over there. there, they're in trouble.

Yeah. You guys, I, maybe not, how many times can, I'm sure you hear it every day. I couldn't be more sorry. I, I'm happy to have now seen a little bit of your beautiful son, know a little bit about him. I don't, I know there's nothing I can say, but you are doing good work. And I know that this film will change things. It changed me. And again, I don't have the kids that age.

but if I did and any of my friends who have kids that age, I'm going to say this is required viewing before you send them off, they have to see this. And so, you know, I hope that that helps you guys. I can't imagine much does help, but I'm thinking of you all and praying for you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

I really appreciate it. One is the same age as Adam? Yeah, my son, right. I have a 24-year-old daughter and a 26-year-old son. Okay. Yeah, Adam would be 20. maybe 25 in October. Yeah.

Both of them would have. His sweetness just emanated from him. Could. Yeah. I'm thinking about you guys. Okay. Please be well, please take care of yourselves.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for everyone listening. Okay, you guys, that's it for this episode of Dirty Rush. Make sure you follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Dirty Rush Podcasts. So you don't miss new episodes, exclusive clips, and more. Okay. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

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Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Creveit and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley Feed on the iHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

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