The Ben and Emil Show - BAES 115: Deep Dive: Chinese Stock Scams are EVERYWHERE

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

This week Edwin Dorsey from The Bear Cave joins us to talk about the massive problem with Chinese stock scams absolutely inundating the Nasdaq. Their operations are huge, employing hundreds of people throughout southeast Asia and preying on vulnerable people via Whatsapp groups and sketchy AI-generated ads. You can follow Edwin on twitter at: https://x.com/stockjabber?lang=en or subscribe to his substack here: https://thebearcave.substack.com/ Ben's new movies and tv podcast with Dillon is OUT NOW! GO WATCH the third episode on HONEY DON'T: https://youtu.be/SmHX4GtXIjc?si=vBVgNnizHkVzl2lW **CHECK OUT EMIL'S LIVESTREAMS HERE: https://www.youtube.com/emilderosa Give this video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it! And please leave us a comment! It helps us! That's Cringe of Cody Ko: https://youtu.be/dTbEk0pVh2w Our AUSTIN VIDEO IS OUT! https://youtu.be/yGSs56bFzRU Sign up to watch and support the show at https://benandemilshow.com ***LINK TO OUR DISCORD: https://discord.gg/CjujBt8g ***Subscribe to Emil's Substack: https://substack.com/@emilderosa ***Trade with Ben at https://tradertreehouse.com Our episode with *Kyla Scanlon*: https://youtu.be/cIHWkY35cuc Big Tech is out of ideas (ft. ED ZITRON): https://youtu.be/zBvVGHZBpMw Arguing with a millionaire (ft. Chris Camillo): https://youtu.be/1ZUWTkWV_MM We bought suits HERE: https://youtu.be/_cM1XqA9n2U __ GROUND NEWS: Go to https://ground.news/baes for a better way to stay informed. Subscribe for 40% off unlimited access to worldwide coverage through our link. SHOPIFY: Sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start selling today at https://shopify.com/baes __ Follow us on instagram! @ benandemilshow @ bencahn @ emilderosa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Buy Apple, sell it in a week, buy Palantir, this, this, and they're giving you all these trades. Then you'll be added into these VIP or core groups. And that's where they'll really promote these Chinese companies that they're about to dump. Oh, if you check in for 10 days straight, we'll send you a mug or a 10 or a Tumblr. I was fine with the scamming, but I draw the line at not sending my tumbler. Well, I got good news for you.

I'm in the scam group, and they legitimately sent me to the Tumblr. See, I'm getting a WhatsApp audio call now from the scam. Wait, answer it. Put it on speakerphone. Are you kidding? Can you explain to me how this works, though, please? Yeah, but I need to explain you how to contact it? No, how the ValueX program works.

Just a quick explanation. I'm looking at time We've been in me Tell me what's going on Tell me what's gone on I saw 7, 8 and 9 in the theaters And they didn't really do it for me

I rewatched it with fresh eyes There's something there Adult eyes you mean Adult eyes I mean I was an adult back then too They didn't come out that long ago And I'll tell you what it's worth it for Babu Frick alone Babu Frick

Well there you have it folks Thanks for joining us week. We got a very special fun episode. Welcome to the Ben and Emile show. We have from the Bear Cave newsletter Edwin Dorsey.

Some of you might recognize him from, we did a very fun episode of the Stock Twits Weekend Rip show with Edwin. One of our favorite episodes we did. It was super... No, I was going to wait, I was going to go. And for those of you don't know, this guy destroys

companies. Oh, yes. This guy puts, but like companies that deserve to be destroyed, scams, hooliganism, all the bad stuff, the naughty stuff. Yeah. Edwin is the, Edwin is the- He's keeping companies honest. He's keeping companies honest. He's the counterweight. Yeah. He's a counterweight in this capitalist structure that we are in.

He's the financial journalist we need right now. Yeah. We're just going to talk about you and you can just sit there and listen. This is wonderful. I'm all here. so uh but yeah i do recommend honestly going to check out that other one in case because we're not going to touch on any of we won't touch on any of the stuff we covered in that one but i'm sure you'll like this interview a lot and if you do there's more i would go check that one out too because

um it's there's some really fun stories about edwin's other work in there too so why don't we for for for because that was again that was for the other show um for the uninitiated why don't you give us a little bit on your talk a little bit about your background how you got into this stuff, what you do exactly. Yeah. Absolutely. Ben Emil, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's always a blast. I know we're going to have a blast again. So I write a news that are called the Bear Cave, which is broadly focused on exposing corporate misconduct. There's kind of two components to the Bear Cave. There's a weekly recap I send out every week that covers the activist short world. So I'll summarize new activist short campaigns. I'll

I'll highlight suspicious or questionable executive resignations, and I'll link to interesting articles and interesting tweets. It's really read by a lot of short sellers to keep up with the news and find short ideas. And then the more fun part of my newsletter, which is more focused on the paid subscribers, is twice a month. I'll write about a generally $1 to $10 billion public company that I feel is misleading investors or harming customers. These aren't quite short reports, but there are deep dives in the companies where, you know, there's something wrong with it. And I've been doing this for the last five years. There's about 80,000 people that read the news letter now.

And the way I got into it was just in college, I started interning for short sellers and learned the ropes. And I learned that when you put stuff online and smart stuff online and criticize companies, a lot of interesting things can come as a result. So that's broadly what the newsletters on. And more recently, I've become obsessed with looking into these U.S. listed Chinese companies that are kind of being manipulated on our markets and causing investors a lot of losses. Do you have a favorite takedown that you've wrought upon the markets? Is there one that stands

out before we get into the Chinese ones? Well, absolutely. The one that was most fun was actually when I was in college. I think we talked about this a little last time. Yes. There was a publicly traded babysitting platform called care.com. Oh, yeah. And a billion dollar market cap. And their whole idea was we're going to vet the babysitters and we'll charge parents to get access to good babysitters. And babysitters could advertise their services to parents. And I was skeptical that they were doing the safety they claimed to be doing. A friend of mine tipped me off that they were kind of sketchy. So I tried to sign up as Harvey Weinstein to see if they were actually vetting the babysitters they claimed to be vetting. And I was able to be approved as Harvey Weinstein. As Harvey Weinstein.

Weinstein and passed their background check. And I kind of documented it all. And that went viral. And then the company went after my family. They called my college. It became a big fight. And long story short, the Wall Street Journal ended up writing a big story about their safety issues. And that's what gave me the street cred to start the newsletter. And that's why hedge funds kind of cared at a young age, what I had to say about companies. Wow. And if I remember correctly, Mr. Weinstein, there's no, you don't do any actual trading on this information that you publish, correct? Exactly. So the big difference from me in an activist shortsellers is activist short sellers make money trading around their reports, sometimes in a very short term manner.

While I don't trade at all about the companies I write about, I only make money from reader subscriptions to my newsletter. So it's a lot more journalistic and it's a lot more focused on building trust with the readers. Gotcha. I guess if you were to be trading on it, you would kind of be going towards the dark side of the force, you know? Yeah, wow.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Wait, I do have to ask before we get started. Is that a, that's a bull behind you, I believe. I would have expected a bear or some kind of, yeah, I don't know. That's a great observation. And, you know, one thing, if you talk to short sellers enough, you'll notice many of them are kind of unhappy

and disillusioned with the world and kind of like, angry. And that's very not my, you know, affect. I'm a long-term optimist. I love the world. I think you should always be close to fully invested in the market. And, you know, in general, I think things are good. It's these small pockets of evil or craziness that I try to identify in my newsletter. But, you know, I'm not one of those people that are saying the market's going to crash every day and, you know, bet against the, you know, I'm very much an optimist on humanity. That's nice to hear because, yeah, a lot of those, the likes of Zero Hedge and I can't think of any other prominent, constant perma bears, as they call them. Sven, something, I forgot his name because he has me blocked.

They're really good at sounding smart about all the reasons why the market should fall and why everything is just one big Ponzi scheme. And then after a while, when you realize, sometimes it can take you years, like it took me, like, wait, this guy just, even though he's saying all this stuff and writing all this stuff that seems to be correct, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because his call is wrong. Yeah. The things are going to collapse. It's wrong because it hasn't happened. And every time that it does start to happen, they're like, rah, ra, we did it.

We're look how right we are. And then within a few months, we're just right back to all-time highs and then some. So it's nice to hear someone who will not participate, but who is in the short selling circuit. in humanity. Yeah, believes in humanity. It doesn't think this is all just one big Ponzi scheme on the, on the verge of collapse. Yeah, I mean, you look since 1800, I think the markets compounded at around 9 or 10% a year over 225 years. So, yeah, but that's based on the Fiat, the dollar, which is, which was set up in order to make people dependent on the government or whatever fucking bull. I don't know. I can't think of what stupid shit they always say about that. But yeah,

Correct. Yeah, it's just, it's, it only goes up until very soon when it, when it will collapse. And if you subscribe to our newsletter, we'll tell you exactly what. Let's get into the Chinese stocks games because I fell victim to some of these over the years. In my, early on in my tenure as a trader, I remember buying some Chinese, U.S. listed Chinese solar companies. And that was kind of my first foray into learning about how, because I looked at their balance sheet and I was like, how the hell are they, they're claiming like $200 billion a year in revenues, but they're only trading it like a billion dollar market cap. Oh my God, I'm a genius. I just found something undiscovered. Can you talk a little bit about, like, are you versed at all in the

history of these Chinese listed companies and how they've got a history of being a little sketchy that well there's a long history and it's evolved a lot over time and the evolution is something i don't think many people fully understand so go back 10 years there 15 years there's a big surge in these chinese companies ipoing or you know reverse merging onto the u.s public markets and everybody was you know huge growth story of china you want to invest in these china companies they have a huge runway they're small they can be very big and there were tons of these and overwhelmingly they just were fraudulent they would claim revenues they don't have they'd claim profits they don't have some of the activist short sellers were smart in these early days and they would go to the companies

they'd get a hotel room across from the headquarters and they'd film and they'd show that there was no activity for a week and then the day outside investors were going to arrive there was just a ton of activity and in the day they left the activity all went to zero so these were very much frauds and you know part of the reason they appealed to a lot of individual investors is they traded at cheap valuations i even remember when i was in high school just starting to look at stocks there's always these really cheap chinese companies i would trade at a discount to cash and you're like wow the market's so stupid how can this exist i'm so smart i'm going to buy some and then you find out the cash doesn't exist and they had a third rate auditor and everybody kind of has those

stories especially if you're screening because they would screen really really well and that went on a lot and I think it's a little bit of the business culture in China has a little bit of exaggeration built in Carson Block says in China 20 to 30 percent of revenue fraud is just standard business that's not even considered fraud there's there's a little bit of a different culture around business there from when I gather. it's changed a lot now. So now it's actually very different from the past. Now the financials, as far as I can tell, are more or less truthful.

However, they just bank on investors not looking at the financials, and they found different ways to promote the stocks, where now these bad actors will find these really small companies in China, take them public. They might be 10, 20 people. They might have half a million to two million revenue, and they'll find these business owners. They'll say, hey, go public and be part of our scheme, and we'll make sure you're well compensated. They go public in these really small IPOs, and at some point, these really sophisticated scam groups will recruit U.S. investors into WhatsApp groups and other groups and convince them to buy these junk Chinese stocks, pump the price up, and then out of nowhere, we've seen over and over again they'll fall 95% in the day. So the dynamic has changed where it's more focused on just promoting these stocks.

And as long as it has a ticker, the underlying business doesn't matter because they think they're going to be able to convince enough individual investors to buy it based on their ticker and the story they sell alone and not the underlying financials. Hey, gang, we've got to take a quick break to talk about something very important here. Have you ever read two articles about the same event? felt like they were from completely different planets. With today's fragmented media landscape, it's getting so much harder to know what's real, what's biased, and what's just noise. We started using ground news for the show

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Dot news slash bays for a better way to stay informed. Subscribe to get 40% off the vantage plan by scanning this QR code or using our link, ground. dot news slash b a es so they've so it's not necessarily i'm sure that there are cases with the likes of ali baba and pin duo duo and uh billy billy and all these um the bigger blue chip chinese stocks yeah have probably improved their transparency with auditing and things like that but so you're saying that there are for all the others the the total garbage ones the ones that i was looking at when I was younger, the ones you were looking at in high school. Now the scammers have graduated to realizing, well, we can't really rope in any suckers with just our balance sheet. We've now got

to just kind of, what are they, are they pumping stories and headlines, just like classic style? Well, I think the scammers have realized we don't, we don't need to have. We can just show that the bit, we can be truthful. It's a 10 person business with half a million in revenues and it's declining revenues. And we're not, we're not going to bank on trying to get. you and me or anybody with a level of financial sophistication to invest, we're going to bank on getting a no-name person who knows nothing about stocks to just invest in this based on the story. So typically what scammers will do is that once they recruit people into these WhatsApp

groups, they'll hope nobody does any diligence, and they'll say, oh, this is China's version of this, and they're about to be acquired or merge or get a big outside investment from this company on a certain date by now before this big transaction is announced and that'll cause the stock to skyrocket. And typically these companies will have a very tightly controlled float. So when the IPO or a few months after IPO, nobody outside the company in these scam groups will own any shares. They'll own 90, 95% plus the float, which means it's easy for them to manipulate the price

upward. They'll just trade back and forth with each other. And as they do that, you just see a stock going up into the right. Then they convince these retail investors who don't know better, look, this stock is going up into the right. We're telling you that they're about to announce a big merger, buy it now. And when they do that to all these retail investors, that's when they dump it. And that's when the price ultimately collapses.

So it's gotten to the point that they don't need a lie in their financials. The one, the company I wrote about most recently, which I think got close to a billion-dollar market cap if you just read the financials they said they had less than half a million in revenue they showed that revenue was declining they said they had 10 employees almost all in sales and you know half of the revenue isn't being even realized in cash because their counterparties aren't paying them so it takes me two minutes to realize this company isn't worth anything substantive but then it's not it's easy to identify these that they're junk companies it's tough to understand when is it going to collapse, how high can they promote it. That's kind of the thing the market's having a tough time

at doing. And that's what I'm trying to become really good at. That was Fayton, Fayton Holdings, PTHL. I don't even know how to say it. Faten's Holdings. Oh my God. Yeah. It went from $3 a share to just about 31, almost 32. And then on the, I remember reading your short report that morning, what was that a week ago? And I thought, oh, I should try to. short that, but I was like, it's probably really hard to borrow. And sure enough, it collapsed intraday, all in one day, almost, almost all the way. It went from just about $31 to $1.50. We're going to have to put a chart up of this because it's, yeah, it dropped 94% 94.67% in a day. Were you just, I mean, I'm sure that that feels good to call out, but it's obviously devastating

knowing that out there there's some poor schmuck with 10 grand in his trading account who just lost half of it if God hope he only put half of it in there, you know? Yeah, well, I hear now from all these people who were scammed and they reach out to me with all these, because they Google why the stock's collapsing and then they find my report and then they reach out to me. And typically they're not blaming me for causing it. They realize I'm just identifying the scam. That's good. And yeah, it's really sad because this is overwhelmingly kind of more middle class people that just don't have a high degree of sophistication. And they all say, you know, I was on Instagram or Facebook.

I saw an ad for what seemed like a reputable investment company. And oftentimes these scammers will impersonate reputable investment companies. I click on it and I'm put in this WhatsApp group. That should be a red flag. And what people don't realize is to build. trust the schemers don't immediately say, hey, buy this random Chinese company. That would probably come across as odd. They'll spend months, and I'm in these groups telling you, oh, buy this stock, buy Rocket Lab, oh, sell it in a week, buy Apple, sell it in a week, buy Palantir, this, this,

and they're giving you all these trades for months that, in theory, are profitable. And if you're doing them, you might make money. And then if you show that you're following their trades and sending them screenshots, because they'll request screenshots every time you do a trade, then you'll be added into these VIP or core groups, which are basically the groups for their marks. And that's where they'll really promote these Chinese companies and they're about to dump. So, yeah, they rope you in with the legit ones, the real. It's kind of, I mean, this sounds like the Wolf of Wall Street playbook where, hey, first we pitch them on blue chip stocks and show them that we're serious and we're real and we're promoting real stocks. And, and we're promoting

real stocks. And then, yeah, you, I wonder if those screenshots to prove that you made the trades are to see that you've actually got money in your account, too. Bingo, yeah. So there's so much more sophisticated. I'm blown away and I have so much to tell you guys. So typically, they'll say, how old are you? And they prefer if you're older. And I know this, because sometimes I say my age and the scammers tell me, can you lie about your age and say you're older? Because the scammers, like, they're kind of like outsource with one another. So if you say you're 40, they're going to get a bigger cut from their boss for referring older people to be scammed than younger people. So it's like this intricate group.

So they'll ask how old you are. They'll ask who your brokers are. What they'll say is, hey, our AI system can review your portfolio. So can you send us a screenshot of your portfolio so we can give you advice on all the stocks you own? And so they'll see what you own. And then what they'll say is, oh, you should sell half of these so you have more cash so you can be scammed, right? And they'll give you like this fancy mumbo-jumbo about the momentum and moving averages and crossing, whatever.

And so then you get a lot of cash and you'll start trading their legitimate picks. And almost always there's, you know, a famous investor or professor who's made an AI system and you're trading these legitimate picks for two, three weeks of small, mid, large-cap U.S. companies. And then after you do that, if you're sending the screen, screenshots, which demonstrates you have capital and you're following the trades, then they'll add you to these VIP groups. So there's like a lot to qualify. And there's so much more to it. You know, there's one website, fnc.aI. I don't know if you can go to it or if you see it, fnc.aI, this is one of the scam websites, right? But it kind of looks legitimate.

Is it a commitment to innovation and sustainability? No, no, yeah. F and D. C.A.I. Think logic. Empowering smarter financial thinking. So that kind of looks legitimate, right? Yeah, sure. And then they got a smart lady who looks like a Kathy Wood. Now look in the top right. Do you see the online interaction section? Yes. But click that. Click lottery. Oh, good. Oh, goodness. Now you see like, what the heck is this? So what they do is they have these chats and they make you check in. And these scammers to keep you engaged, they give you the these codes, like personalized codes every day that you put into this lottery to win something. Jesus Christ.

You know, and they do that to see who's actually engaging with the content because they want their marks to have money, to follow trades, and to be engaged. So they do, there's this huge system just to qualify people to participate in the scam. And, you know, they tell people, oh, if you, if you check in for 10 days straight, we'll send you a mug or a tumbler or, you know, and if you check in for a thousand days straight, you'll be in a lottery for a Lamborghini, right? I want to get one of those tumblers. I want to get a scammer mug.

Well, and I think in my head, there's no way they're actually going to send you the tumbler. They're going to say it's lost in the mail. They're never actually going to scam. I was fine with the scamming, but I draw the line at not sending my tumbler. Yeah. Well, I've got good news for you. I'm in the scam group, and they legitimately sent me the Tumblr. So this is a scam.

The organization doesn't exist. It's just to scam U.S. investors. Oh, my God. That's incredible. And now they can seem so legit. Yeah. These guys, like normally you think scammers will call you up, give you, they've got the entire ecosystem.

They're investing like millions into these scams just to like build trust. Yeah, my favorite one is in your expose, the GBAW Global Financial Market Elite Community, which promotes the AI 5.0 quantitative trading system developed by professional Professor Francis Benjamin. And you've got the screenshot from the website in here. And it's just so clearly an AI-generated old white guy with a beard. And I love that they've got the fake AI image of Francis Benjamin shaking hands with Warren Buffett, who's also AI-generated. And they're standing, of course, in front of just like miscellaneous stock exchange charts behind them. It's just like, oh, God, any person with a discerning eye who has a modicum of understanding about technology, especially AI, would recognize this as a scam. But obviously, there are some poor schlubs out there who see this and go, oh, God, damn, this Francis Benjamin guy's the real deal. I imagine that's why they're incentivizing the older crowd here. I imagine they're a bit less savvy about some of this stuff.

Hey, everybody. we want to take one more quick break to thank a long time sponsor of this show. One that's been imperative to the success of the show. That's Shopify. You know, when we first started on this little endeavor, we had no

clue what we were doing, especially when it came to all things merch and selling stuff online. And that's where Shopify came in. This genius next to me says, hey, when are you Shopify? And I said, stop yelling at me. But okay, let's give a shot.

Cha-ching, because we're about to get paid, baby. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that experience? Emil, what makes Shopify so great. Yeah, we had no idea what to do. They had all the resources to help us. We got our online shop up and running, and not only that, it was so helpful with getting our merch sales in person done. POS system.

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with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash bays. Go to shopify.com slash bays. One more time, Shopify.com slash B-A-E-S. Yeah, but you think everybody would know, and I show this to my dad, and I think it's obviously an AI-generated image.

And he says, how do you know that's not the real one? I'm like that. It's so obvious. What are you talking about? Yeah. It's really like this AI stuff is going to, it's the golden age of scamming. And in these groups, they'll have AI generated talks and they'll make it seem like they're, they're having real conferences when they're not. It's, it's just incredible how far these scammers are able to go. And my view is that I expressed in the article about PTHL is the regulators are so not equipped to deal with. this literally even after so let's say you buy the stock it goes you know he starts to go up and then out of the blue it falls 95 percent you know the scammers what they'll do is they'll literally impersonate the SEC or FBI and start calling you and reaching out to you pretending to be specific people at those agencies that they're investigating when they're not and you know I've tried to figure out why are they doing this and I think it's partly to deter real complaints to the regulators who's then you're going to complain to the scammers.

Some of the time the scammers will say, oh, you lost 50 grand in this stock. Well, we have a recovery team. And for $5,000 more dollars, you can be part of the recovery team that's going to get your money back. Of course, you're just sending more money to be scammed again.

Yeah, I think this was honestly kind of the most insidious part of this. You have some of these screenshots. They're reaching out to these people who have just been scammed and they want to double-dip and get them into this recovery program. We'll put some screenshots here, but maybe for the audio listener, I can just give them a taste of what this is like.

So they have, it looks like the seal of the United States Securities Exchange on their little WhatsApp profile. And then they reach out and they say, hello, I'm Samuel Walden, acting director, Division of Enforcement, U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Oh, thank God. I just lost so much money. Samuel Walden, thank you. Last week, we received a report about the malicious short selling of OST,

and we have given specific suggestions for handling it. Please send me the details of OST. losses as required within 12 hours after receiving this notice. If you cannot prove it, you will be considered as a participant in the malicious short selling, and you will receive a lawyer's letter from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, and the relevant accounts and assets involved will be frozen. So not only are they saying you can get into the recovery program, but they're also kind of threatening you a little bit. Yeah. No, it gets crazy. And, you know, the big thing is during the dump period, they want to dump all the stock they own onto individual

investors and that individuals be holding the bag and what they can't allow to happen is an individual buys it and then sells it a day later maybe at a profit or gets out because they want to be dumping all the stock to individuals they don't want individuals selling it to one another so once they tell you to buy they'll require you to send daily screenshots of your holdings that's part of the reason they train you on screenshots because they want to make sure you don't sell so they get kind of really good access into the holdings. There's kind of a lot more to it. What's the other thing?

Like, you know, when they collapse, they'll often say, look, you just lost a lot of your money. Typically before the collapse, they promise people, look, we're a big firm, we send out mugs, we got our AI system, we promise to reimburse your losses on this pick. Now, any normal person should be like, why are you promising to reimburse my loss? But they'll say, no, we have a recovery fund. So if you lose money on this transaction, we'll reimburse your losses. And then that, of course, shifts to, well, we have a new pick for you to make up your money.

Well, it's another scam. It's kind of crazy to me how far they go. And oftentimes, it's not just linked to stocks. What we saw with the F&C website is they're telling you about stocks. They're trying to get you to trade stocks. But they tell you, oh, you can also win crypto by participating with. our company. And you can win these crypto awards. And then, of course, to win the crypto awards, the $10 in Tether, they have you download a new app, which you can get in the App Store, that's

impersonating another financial firm. And they'll start, like, you'll have accounts that seem legitimate, where they're sending you Tether and crypto, but it's not real. And then they'll eventually convince you to deposit real money into these fictional iPhone apps so they can scam you more. Does that kind of make sense? God. Yeah. Wait. So you download this app, say it's mimicking Coinbase, and you think, oh, I've downloaded their app that they told me to get to receive my awards that they've promised to give me. And then it looks like you've received actual money, but it's just fake. It's just a paper. It's just nothing. It's just a fake account. Can I show you guys? Yes, please. One sec. One sec. So check this out. Okay. Check this out. what's the app called can you say so there's several of them yeah one is called savaku go svaku space go but you can just get it on the iPhone store also just because just so

we're just so I make sure I'm keeping up here so originally all these people are recruiting into these what's app uh what's app group chats on the idea of trading this stock that they're going to get a really good deal on and they're getting in early on right they're originally recruited under the idea that we're a professional investment firm that helps retail investors make money. We have an AI model and we're going to give you the trades from the AI model. And for the first month, it is just giving them, they're not trying to scam you at all. It's just legitimate stock trades. Just just basically randomly generating and they highlight all the wins and they don't really talk about the losses again. And they have thousands of these groups. So if you know,

if you're in a group and they give you all bad stock trades just by coincidence you'll probably discard them they won't care but if you're in a group that helps retail investors and you just made a ton of money in the month randomly then those people trust you and if you've been participating if you've been you know sending screenshots so and you're doing the trades and if you've made like 20 30 percent now you kind of trust this random AI system and the websites and all the money they're investing in time into you right that they'll add you to VIP groups. or core trading groups. And that's where many of the scams go down. This is where we get the real stuff. Yeah. And then they'll also give you incentives to download these random crypto apps, which are, so this is a scam app. You can get it on the iPhone, but it's a complete scam.

Okay. And in theory, like, it shows for me that I have. And so this is also for the VIP players. So once they've got you in this kind of VIP elite group, they're like, We also have these crypto opportunities. Yeah. So it shows me that I've earned a $100 of cryptocurrency in my wallet, which I know isn't real and I couldn't actually withdraw.

And I just know the end state is that they're going to ask me to deposit money into this crypto thing and then they're going to steal it from me. But it's crazy that they literally have apps you can download now. And I have like three of them and I'm sure there's more that are just made to steal money from you. So people think, you know, oh, what is? idiot would fall for a WhatsApp group. It's way, way more sophisticated than I thought. They even, you know, will make investment presentations on why you should buy these stocks

like PTHL. And they obviously won't talk about the low amounts of revenue, but they'll give a really convincing 30-page analysis on why Gilead is about to make an investment. And it's always, you know, roughly a $500 million to a billion dollar Chinese company at its peak of the pump. and then they're literally sending PowerPoint presentations and long investment memos with all the evidence that they're about to be acquired or partnered with a big U.S. company. And to an outside investor, you know, you'd think, look, these guys made me a lot of money. They have an AI system. They seem kind of smart.

And now I can kind of insider trade a little and buy an acquisition before it happens. And the price just keeps going up into the right for no reason. That's how these scams are kind of working. And we see now every week in the market over and over and over, these small companies get pumped up and then collapse. Yeah, you had, there was Top King Win, which dropped 90% on July 7th. The next day, there was Park Ha biological technology. That one is actually about to pop, though.

But it dropped 93% on July. It's about to pop. Concord International Group dropped 80% on July 10th. I mean, there's a bunch more. The one that you had the SEC thing, that was from a ticker called OST that dropped 93%. And there's one guy that you highlighted who had clicked. So these scam groups advertise all over Instagram, all over Facebook. And like this one guy said, he clicked on an Instagram ad because it had a video of Tim Ferriss,

who's the famous, what would you call him? Lifestyle guy or motivational speaker, business. this guy, Tim Ferriss? Yeah. Yeah, he's got a very popular podcast. And it turns out it was just an AI generated video of him promoting this group, right? Yeah, these scammers are using AI in the most productive ways in the high as well. Not productive in a good way, but yeah, just generate AI video of somebody speaking or a reputable person speaking, have them come in these groups. And, you know, it does seem like most adults should know, like, don't take stock trades from WhatsApp groups. But when they're not asking you for money and when the first trades are legitimate for a month, it's like you can, and when they're putting time to invest in the relationship, it's pretty sophisticated.

Where do you think they're based out of? So there was, the U.S. Department of Justice seized some of the funds from one of the scams. So one of the stocks that collapsed earlier this year was CLEU, China liberal education holdings. I remember that one. And they said the proceeds from the pump and dump fraud was about 400 million, and the government was able to seize about 200 million. So these are huge numbers. They're making a lot of money. And they said the accounts, I believe, belonged to people in China.

and Malaysia. So it's kind of like Southeast Asia. I think a lot of the money is flowing to people in China in the end. There's a great podcast series by the economist called Scam Inc. that shows how some of these compounds run. Like in Myanmar, Burma, there's a lot of lawlessness and the government isn't strong there. So there's likely compounds of a thousand plus people working for these people that are probably, you know, the money flows to China. basically kind of indentured servitude in these call center-like environments focused on scamming people. I mean, I really think it's sophisticated and large, and there's hundreds of these groups. It's not like one person or one group. It's big, and it's earning tens of billions of dollars a year. So, I mean, that was one instance where they were, okay, they were able to recover about half of the proceeds. But you alluded to the fact that we're maybe very ill-equipped our own government, our own institutions, to kind of do anything against this, do you have any info on kind of what their, what actions they're taking currently to work against this?

Yeah. So, you know, there's basically been nothing done for a very, very, very long time. I think that was the first time we ever got some of the funds of the scammers. And the Trump administration, at least, has been trying to crack down more recently. Jim Chanos has a good saying, his famous short seller, saying, regulators are a lot like financial archaeologists. They're good at saying what went wrong after the fact. So something collapses, they send subpoenas, and they get the info, and they figure out who's responsible. That's not really relevant for this because after it's done, the money's gone within a few days.

I think the reason they were able to get the money in that case wasn't because they were proactive. It was because somebody reported it to them that one of the banks reported the fraud to them. So they're very, very slow at recovering funds. I think there could be some pressure on NASDAQ to stop allowing these companies to list. Yeah. Because NASDAQ is making a lot of money from the trading volume and listing fees of all these really low flow companies. And a lot of these investors who get scammed, they say, look, it's on a major U.S. exchange. I know NASDAQ.

NASDAQ isn't a scam. So they get worried that way. I wonder, yeah, I was just going to ask, does the fault begin? to lie on the exchanges for not doing enough due diligence on their part to list them? Because there's got to be somewhere the buck stops on

the U.S. side, right? Because isn't anybody, I know that there are requirements to list on the NASDAQ and there's different tiers and obviously these companies are probably taking advantage of the lax rules on the lowest tiers. But still, there's got to be do you foresee

any changes going on with the NASDAQ? I think they don't really have a financial incentive to do anything, so that they make money off all of this. And the biggest thing is regulators view themselves as disclosure agencies. So the SEC, I think, takes the approach of our job is to ensure that there's full and complete and accurate disclosures from companies. And if you look at the company's filings themselves, they're accurate. I mean, PTHL said our revenues down 30% year over year, and we went from 600,000 in revenue. to 400,000 in revenue, and most of it, we don't collect in cash, and we have 10 employees.

And what the companies will do is they always feign ignorance. After the stock collapsed 95% in a day, they always say, oh, we don't know what's going on, this unprecedented market activity. I think that they kind of do, you know, through back channels, but there's enough kind of plausible deniability that everybody, you know, says we're not involved, but they are. And so until there's like a legal, you know, demand on these exchanges or legal risk for them, you know, NASDAQ is going to probably keep getting money. And then the government can go in after the fact, but they're not good of proactively stopping it.

And to show how insidious it is, almost always they pump it up. So PTHL goes from a few dollars to whatever, 30. It collapses to one. And then what they say in these chats is they'll say, look, the company collapsed. you know, the transaction failed, malicious short sellers drove it down, and now Gilead's not going to invest. So as your friends, we're advising you sell now for whatever you can get, even if it's 50 cents or a dollar, and we'll try to help you make the money back on other stocks. So then all the investors sell, because there's no value there, and you just saw it fall 95%. The scammers

buy it back. And then six months, nine months later, it's just repeating with the same ticker. There's always a secondary or tertiary pump where they just buy back. all the stock, and they pump it to a new group of people a year later on the same thing, and it collapses again. So if you got scammed, hold, okay? Hold for the next wave and make sure you get out. My favorite part in your, I mean, I have a lot of favorite parts, but one of them is when they actually do a video call with you to verify your identity. But conveniently, it's like what's going you you're looking and all you see is like their foreheads and like you know ceiling fans and stuff and maybe they're like wave it looks like they're waving or are they covering their like you and you had conversations with these people right brief so basically they don't mind if you join the WhatsApp groups and they're just giving you mid-camp stocks buy this or this whatever right they don't really care too much who's in that chat the more the better and typically they were restricted to add And if you try to warn people, oh, it's a scam.

They're just going to be kicked out of the group, okay? So they don't care who's in that chats. But they are very secretive about who gets to know the Chinese, like the legit promotions. They don't want to advertise that publicly because then somebody like me can go out and say, look, they're about to pump and dump this like a board or somebody in the chat can start warning other people. So they want to be very guarded and secretive about the ones they're about to dump, if that information gets out short sellers can highlight it you can warn investors regulators could have an

easier job halting them so they're very guarded about who gets this information so in order to join these VIP groups where they kind of let you in on like the legitimate pump and dumps or the real pump and they make sure to zoom with you and I think they just want to make sure you're not a regulator and that you're not a hedge fund manager and I think that's what they're doing so I get these face time calls and they say it's just going to be 15 seconds we just want to verify you are and it's always just some person who seems Chinese or Asian and they're nervous and they're covering their cameras and they're always in this like weird indoor environment which kind of to me at least reinforces there might be a forced labor component where you have thousands of these lower level

people who are jobs it is to do these face time calls over and over and chat and cover the camera it's super super bizarre but I don't think it's you know a group of five people doing a pump and dump I think it's you know a guy who's employing a thousand people who's really good and there's organizations that are job of Instagram ads there's organizations that run the general groups there's organizations that run the VIP groups and they have everybody tagged in these systems and then you have unique user IDs you use for these daily checkins on these websites it's yeah if you're okay with it maybe we'll put in some of the some of your screenshots so people can see what you're talking about with those uh with those

video calls you made amiel if it's okay i'd like to promote something else i'm working on there's there's a website i created called stop nasdaq china fraud dot com well that's a stop nasdaq china fraud i'm surprised that was available that uh domain yeah it's a little bit of a mouthful Overseas stock manipulators are using WhatsApp groups to pump and dump U.S. listed Chinese stocks, wiping out billions in investor savings. You can help stop them. Upload screenshots of suspicious WhatsApp chats to our public database. Your evidence reveals how the schemes work, warns other investors, and helps us.

I mean, it would behoove you to advertise this. I wish you could get it in front of the same eyes that are seeing these ads for the WhatsApp groups. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. That's a good idea. So basically this website, stop NASDAQChinafraud.com, I'm uploading all the screenshots from these chats that I'm in and that people send me. Because a lot of people are sending me after they get scammed. These are all the chats. So you can see how they work and what companies are promoting.

And all the images are searchable. So you can see like if a ticker is being promoted. And my goal with this is that enough people hear about it in real time that they just start uploading a lot of images. And so then I kind of have real time flow on who, all these groups are, who they're impersonating, what websites are they using, and I can better predict when these scams are about to collapse. Yeah, it's like, I'm sure that you've probably been kicked out of these WhatsApp groups by now, or do they know you've- No, no, they have no idea. You know, sometimes I don't necessarily use my name, but they love me. I'm responsive. I do all

the trades they tell me to do. Oh, my God. They do their VIP picks. I kind of understand how, it's all like they read online, and I'm sure they're going to eventually figure some. of this out. But they don't, they're very much like each of these groups and there's thousands. And typically they're labeled, you know, Apollo Equity Group 1, 2, 3, up to 100, you know, so they got 100 versions of the same group. And I feel like they're very decentralized with some form of a centralized database. For example, two groups told me to, you know, at different times buy this stock. And I bought it for one and then I send them a screenshot. And then this other group told me buy it later that day

and I didn't want to re-buy it so I just sent them the old screenshot I sent the other scammer and they said wait a second this this screenshot is already in our database somebody else sent it see I'm getting a WhatsApp audio call now from a scam

they probably want me in the VIP group wait answer it put it on speakerphone are you kidding hold on here we can we try the WhatsApp yes let's hope it's what's out we can't hear anything you got to say hello it's ringing it's

okay hold on i'm gonna hang off but the guy's texting me so i'm like can you call now wow these guys are just constantly hounding people i guess yeah and so there's so many different scams. I'll let you know what they call. I'll answer to they call. I mean, the amount of red flags with all of this, I mean, it is kind of unbelievable that they get away with this.

I think especially the, just the screenshots you have of, I mean, I think there are so many moments where I would have gone, okay, maybe I'm getting hosed here. As soon as I get that video call where the person's hiding their face, they look like they're in a bunker

or something, I'm going, okay what is the deal here read is a very very very powerful driving force man do not underestimate the power of greed yeah and there's a great quote you can't cheat an honest man and i think that's especially true here and so they've been making money in these WhatsApp groups whatever and it's always you know this pick is going to give a guaranteed 120% in two weeks you know do it and you might buy a little and you see it going up he says going up every day until the collapse. Here, the scammers are texting me. Do you want to participate

on our program? Yes. We'll see. It's such a shame that there are so many popping up. I mean, these same groups, obviously, are having new picks all the time. And it's like whack-a-mole. Like, even if the SEC were equipped to, first of all, real fast, I'm surprised that the NASDAQ didn't just halt trading when the stock had already dropped like 30, 40 percent. Like, just stop. No longer, you take away their ability to keep

cashing in. If they were to keep doing that, you'd think that that would at least stop some of the bleeding. But I suppose, like you said, they're going, hey, they're being honest in their in their filings. There's nothing we can do. And it's crazy because it would literally protect individual investors so much. I'm seeing if I can call the scan group again. This is exactly what they should be doing. It saves Main Street ordinary investors tens of billions of dollars a year to cut down on this conduct. Also, can I make sure I understand that story about you sending the screenshot to two different scammers? Does that basically mean that those were, it's basically just two different scammers operating under one roof when they say it's already in our database. It's because they're

from the same parent company or whatever. They're like independent maybe groups of five people running like each one of these investment groups or flags or brands and then they every time somebody does a trade they're uploading the screenshots of the trade to some centralized database and that because these guys are probably getting paid commissions that they have a boss they make ads they run the groups and they get paid per like trade per sucker they can refer to the VIP group and they need a documented for their bosses and if I send a screenshot to one group, and then I send a screenshot to another group saying, look, I did the trade.

They'll be like, wait, this is invalid because they can tell when the screenshots are duplicated. So they need to know that I'm trading based on when they tell me rather than getting credit for the trade somebody else induced me to do. Right. Even if the SEC were to try to stop this as they pop up, they would need so much manpower to be actively monitoring

these hundreds of WhatsApp groups, right? Like, you're just one guy, and it's, look how much work it has taken just to get into the private ones. There's very little. So it sounds like the only thing that really can be done is to create regulations that then the exchanges would have to adhere to, right? Yeah, that's a great point. I think the way you stop this is if you tell the exchanges, look, we're cutting down.

When these things collapse, investors can sue the exchanges. And if the exchanges are liable for listing fraudulent companies are allowing things to be manipulated, then they cut down. They have a financial incentive to do this. And I see occasionally, like one of the WhatsApp groups will be banned. And then someone will message me from a new number saying, look, we are in this group and some bad actor, a fraudster, banned us. So we moved to telegram.

So sometimes it shifts to telegram. I think now there's a new service, Viper. it seems like Facebook though should get a lot of the blame because they're the ones profiting when these scammers ad advertise all these scammers have WhatsApp premium accounts so they're paying for premium services from WhatsApp so Facebook obviously doesn't want to get rid of the revenue and I mean I don't think they can get sued or they haven't successfully been sued for this so it's just all around and the biggest thing that strikes me is how way more sophisticated it is and how much they're using technology.

This is getting so much easier with technology, with websites, with AI. It's really remarkable. Because it used to be 10, 15 years ago, it was just emails and maybe hard mailers that you would get physical copies of like a newsletter in the mail. And they would tout these, oh, we've got an, and it would be like, you kind of knew that they were scams, but they were like, we've got a new hot pick that's going to be, they would, you know, some bullshit fluff press release about whatever new technology or similar shit. But I can't imagine that it was even close to the amount of sophistication that you're

alluding to here. Because back then it was just, yeah, it was just an email list. And then at the very bottom, they would sometimes disclose, hey, we've been paid $100,000 by this company to promote this fucking thing. But, yeah, it's overwhelming. I mean, like you're talking about with your dad of just being like, your dad being like, that's the real Warren Buffett. And it's like, You're watching videos of, you know, older people are thinking they're listening to Warren Buffett talk about how this is where I get all my trade picks and, I mean, Warren Buffett's going to die and they're still going to be pumping out Warren Buffett. Oh, he's ghost.

Yeah. We've been in communication with Warren Buffett's ghost from the, from the skeleton realm. And he's Chinese now. He's Chinese now. What? I mean, I want to ask what are some signs that you're in a scam, stop? but I feel like you should know if you're in one of these WhatsApp groups. But by some stroke of bad luck, if you find yourself owning shares in a company,

maybe you got it secondhand off Twitter or something. What are some of the signs that you might be in a stock that's about to collapse like this? So one of the most obvious is all these companies, you look at the SEC filings, they have very few employees. In the real world, it's tough to build a billion dollar company. with Penn employees, but I just look up these companies and they're all based in China and they're all very few employees and then there are these huge market capitalization. So right away, that's one red flag. Another red flag. Hold on. I got a scammer. Is he calling?

Yes. Yeah. Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Yeah. Could you please just, I send it to you the Wallach's customer service contact. Yeah. Can you explain to me how this works, though, please? Yeah, but like, I need to explain you how to contact them or what do you mean? No, how the Value X program works. Just a quick explanation. This is our partnership. This is our partner, Exchange, Ralex Exchange Company. Yeah.

Yeah. So how they work, you can ask their customer service. You can contact them. And at them, this is just our partner. Okay. And who, can you remind me who you are, please? Yeah, this is Lily. I'm customer service of GlassEx Capital. Okay, so the GlassEx Capital WhatsApp group partners with ValueX, and then I reach out to ValueX, and then they give me money to trade stocks.

Yes, exactly. Okay. And can you tell me just a little more about the ValueX, like how much money I'll get or how it works? Okay, like, about ValueX, I cannot give you information, because I'm not working there, I'm sorry. Okay, and... Yes, can contact them and their customer service, as I said to you, their contact. I will do that, Lydia.

And can you just explain to me what Glass Dex, the WhatsApp group, is about? Because I haven't been in it for a little bit. I just want to make sure it's legitimate. So, Glass JX Capital, it's a leading financial firm, which is focused on innovation and diverse salaries management. also in our community on WhatsApp we are providing high quality stocks once or two times per week also we have a trading news investment news also that is like people are chatting like sharing their experience with the stocks and investment also a profession every day daily sharing the

details and information regarding investment stocks and trades. And one more question, Lydia. If I want to go to your website to learn more, what's the website again? Yeah, all right. So let me send you our website, just a second. Are you DM me the website? Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It's just a glass. All right. So let me do like this. So I will send you shortly our website link. All right, so you can take it. Yeah, please send me the website link right away. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you so much. Do you have any questions? No, just the website would be great.

Thank you. Oh, yeah. Have a good day, thank you. Bye for now. Bye. Great job, Lydia. So basically there's a WhatsApp group and it's a feeder for this other service, which is going to scam you, and they want me to contact the other service.

Let's see, like, if she said to go up. I got to join some of these and talk to these people. This is incredible. I really want to, I wish that there, because there are some YouTubers out there who are really good sleuths at finding, like, their actual location for some of these other scams like in India, call centers and stuff like that. And I wonder if you could partner with them somehow and track these people down. Yeah, I would love to. I was kind of hoping that the scammers one day I could get a view outside the window because I know once you get the

outdoors, you can like geolocate. There's people that are really good. It's this hill. It's like this exact spot. Yeah. So I would love to eventually backtrack it. It's like I get I got the presentation they were giving on PTHL and Gilead and I could see in the document properties. It was all in Chinese and the like Chinese accounts are making this presentation. I'm going to ask them for the website again. I wonder if you could like try to lure one of these people out like listen. I know that this is a scam. I am willing to pay you $5,000 if you can give me all the dirt like I will fly you out to New York or something that would be I do want to make sure we come back to at least wrap up that you were you were kind of giving viewers a little bit

of a how to how to know if you're in a scam oh yeah I don't want anyone to be hanging on the line if they were like if they were uh I assume some of it is illiquidity if it's a stock that's going up with very little volume trading that's usually a good sign too okay let me give you the scam website. Oh, yes, please. So it's Glass, G-L-A-S-T-X.com. Glass-T-X.com. Window repair and glasswork.

No, no, that's not it. No, no, GlassX Capital. Investments change the world. Oh, Glass E-X. With a clearly AI-generated background. Glass-T-X Capital is committed to helping more ordinary people grow their wealth through innovative investment strategies. independent forward-thinking financial institution.

It looks pretty good, you guys. They'll have these websites that seem kind of legitimate, and there's always going to be some trading alligator than they're working on. And these websites can start to look quite good, especially when you consider that there's a lot of these small asset managers that don't have great websites to begin with. It's kind of easy to get. And now to the question that we keep getting all topic of,

how do you know these companies? Oh, sorry, yeah. I you know so typically they haven't been around a long time there's not a stock that's been around 20 years that's then getting promoted they're typically recent listings or somewhat recent listings um the float is tightly held they don't have a high amount of revenue they have a very low number of employees with feet and holdings it was a seven hundred fifty million dollar company I'm pretty sure they didn't even have a website or the normal like english facing website which is odd so there's all these questionable things now in terms of getting it promoted, typically for these bigger promotions, you just see it going up into the right, up into the right, up into the right, up into the right. And then right before it collapses is when they start doing these things telling all the people buy limit orders. Everybody go buy limit orders at $32.10. So basically line up so the stock stays flat in the day or two when they're dumping all the shares to retail and then it collapses. It almost always collapses in

afternoons, typically on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, because I think they like to start the dumping on a Monday morning, and then once they dump all their shares, it collapses by Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday once it's all dumped. So, you know, if it's just like a quick look at the financials, don't make any sense. If it has one of these no-name auditors, like Domini or Cathaway, that's kind of questionable. If you can't find anything on the company through the SEC filings or a Google search, then that's really questionable. And then if any time you're being told, hey, there's about to be an M&A deal, it's about to get a big foreign investment, that's a big red flag. Fire beware.

I like, I'm on the GlassTX.com about us section. Yeah. And they've got some, they've got, you scroll down to the core team. I really like this. They've got Charles Aldridge. And it looks, he looks like he's AI generated. Oh, man. All these people.

And then they've got Mark Welsh, who's even more AI generated. It looks like an anime that they turned into a person. And then they just have two more clearly AI people with no names, no nothing. It's just two really hot-looking people. It's really funny too because like, look at this, look at this web, like this image kind of looks legit. I mean, and I can tell that the banner, you know, they misspell financial because the AI doesn't know how to spell things and stuff, but give it a year and you're going to be able to

tell AI to just make a website that looks hyper legitimate. Yeah. It is really funny, too, because this woman who has no name or title at the company, it looks like she has pictures of herself in her office behind her, which is very fun, just portraits of herself. Yeah, these are, I mean... It's so freaky that there's just this entire multi-billion dollar scam economy out there that is just thriving and they employ.

I wonder if they provide health insurance for, well, it's Malaysia and stuff. I don't know what their health insurance looks like, but... Yeah, there's somebody. getting billions of dollars off this i mean it's it's huge amounts of money i mean yeah huge and it's all coming from u.s investors and just to you know you're saying oh it's like attractive women on the website almost always in these WhatsApp groups it's a middle-aged man a professor a doctor an accomplished sometimes impersonating someone who's really accomplished sometimes the made-up fictional character and then there's these you know always attractive typically AI generated women who will message

you saying oh i'm the assistant can you send me messages and then they'll like flirt a little and it also plays on this idea of loneliness where increasingly especially with old people you feel alone you're isolated you don't you don't have people checking in on you so if you all of a sudden are now getting this attention and maybe a little bit of flirtation and asking where you live and whatever it's it's it's it really like praise on all these issues we've created with technology the loneliness, the isolation, the ability for scammers to be so much more sophisticated. I really think it's crazy. It's like it really is just the human condition laid bare, the greed, the loneliness.

The, oh, God. Unfortunately, Edwin, I think you're going to have a little egg on your face because I just went to their testimonial section. And people are loving what Glass TX has done for them, okay? just Samantha Fox, Glass TX's capital's investment tragedy, is very much in line with her needs. Oliver Simpson, you know, these seem like very real people to me. I'm joking. They're pretty fake. They're just a high generated. Well, that's probably a good place to wrap up. I wish I had something positive to go out on. I mean, you're doing God's work. I mean, I think the positive thing is that you're exposing this. I mean, not only with the Bear Cave, but also you're

the website you've created where people can share this stuff with you so there can be more visibility on this because it doesn't seem like the regulators are going to do anything. It doesn't seem like, as you said, NASDAQ doesn't really have an incentive to do anything. So it unfortunately seems like it's going to fall on people like you to educate some people so they know what they're getting themselves into. Yeah, the goal is if I can do what I did with PTHL, call it out right before it collapses the days before two, three, four times. It's going to really start saving some individuals money. People will start sharing with one another. And then if I can make a centralized database at stop NASDAQChinafraud.com where

everybody's uploading their WhatsApp, we'll get a much better sense of how these scammers work. It'll be easy to take down their WhatsApp groups, easier to take down. I have like 10 of these websites. I'm going to list them all and maybe regulators could seize them and take them down. I mean, drop in the bucket in the ocean that this is. But I do think it can. help fight back a little. Right. I guess that is my, it does seem like it's probably not that hard for these people

to kind of like look like they've closed shop, but then just kind of spring up somewhere else. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, it's a real whack-a-mole. Well, Edwin, it's been very, very entertaining, very educational. If people want to

find you, they can go to Twitter or the Bear Cave, right? Yes, the Bear Cave Newsletter. So just the bearcave.com? The bearcave. Thebearcave.substack.com. Gotcha. And on Twitter, you are at stock jabber, I believe?

At stock jabber, which is a play on words. I'm talking about stocks, but I'm also poking them all of it. Yeah, you're jabbing. You're poking the bear, man. You aren't, well, you are the bear. All right. Thanks so much for joining us, Edwin. It's been really, really fun.

And, yeah, we'll be reading the newsletter, as usual. Fantastic. Thanks for having me on my life. Coming up this week on Ben and Emillshow.com. He's like, let me just show you. They had so many fucking plants. Nice. And he's like, let me just show you.

And he's walking me around. I'm not joking, maybe close to 100 different plants. And he's like, and for this one, you got to do this. And halfway through, I'm going, whoa, I can't remember this. Yeah. Two weeks. Also, they had a dog. I was like, this is so much more complicated than the dog.

and I said you before you leave you got to put post-its on all the I can't and he's pulling out different bottles

and this one just takes the spray and this one just and I'm like what are you talking I just go all right some of your planes

are going to die dude I fully was like I don't think you're coming back to all these like I can't this is crazy

he's he's on his phone I'm like what are you doing over there and he turns and shows me he's just looking up Google images of Babu Frick

it looks like a testicle from a butt from a ball sack. Not to me. He looks like a testicle from a ball sack. What does he say? Ha-ha! Hey!

Hey! I wonder how long it took them to get to that. Hey! I bet the... Maybe she started as doing ha-ha and they were like,

no, this is what I work. I bet the person was just kind of popping off, trying to stuff out. Hey! There's not a lot good. Let me have Babu Frick. Oh, you got it.

I like the little guy. Damn, they got ripped one, a sexy baboo frick? No. No, sexy Babu frick. his nipples. They protrude. I'm basically a real-life meme of, you know, I'm laying in bed

with Sarah and she's doing the like, he's probably thinking about other women. Yeah, and I'm going, I wonder what Babu-Frick eats.