The Ben and Emil Show - BAES 154: DEBATE: SpaceX is the Biggest IPO Scam in HISTORY

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

It's coming. It's big. It's the SpaceX IPO and it's gonna make a bunch of people a BUNCH of money, but not you. Oh but you can buy into it right? Right! But is that a good idea...? In this episode we're picking apart the SpaceX IPO and making the case for why it isn't anywhere close to reality or reasonable, and why you might end up owning it one way or another anyhow. Give this video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it! And please leave us a comment! It helps us! Also our newest acid video is out now so check it out! https://youtu.be/7vkFY3f5kkw NEW MERCH OUT! Get 10% off when you sign up and also get bonus content, ad-free versions and more plus your first 7 days free at https://benandemilshow.com ***THE SOUTHWEST COMPANION PASS IS BACK GET IT HERE: https://www.cardratings.com/bestcards/featured-credit-cards?src=691608&shnq=520080,4028088,4048122,4028085,3006151,4048149,4028089,4048084&var2= ***Go check out Ben's movie podcast! https://www.youtube.com/@UCtwCDeHuJTBWUkeQKlLeXhA **CHECK OUT EMIL'S LIVESTREAMS HERE: https://www.youtube.com/emilderosa __ SOME OTHER VIDEOS YOU MAY ENJOY: That's Cringe of Cody Ko: https://youtu.be/dTbEk0pVh2w Our AUSTIN VIDEO: https://youtu.be/yGSs56bFzRU Our episode with Kyla Scanlon: https://youtu.be/cIHWkY35cuc Big Tech is out of ideas (ft. ED ZITRON): https://youtu.be/zBvVGHZBpMw Arguing with a millionaire (ft. Chris Camillo): https://youtu.be/1ZUWTkWV_MM We bought suits HERE: https://youtu.be/_cM1XqA9n2U ***LINK TO OUR DISCORD: https://discord.gg/CjujBt8g ***Subscribe to Emil's Substack: https://substack.com/@emilderosa ***Trade with Ben at https://tradertreehouse.com __ QUO: Try QUO for free and get 20% off your first 6 months at https://www.quo.com/BAES ROCKET MONEY: Rocket Money helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitor your spending, and lower your bills—join at https://RocketMoney.com/BAES TIMESTAMPS: __ Follow us on instagram! @ benandemilshow @ bencahn @ emilderosa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Essentially, with this company, you are betting only on Elon Musk. So you say penny stock. I say sci-fi. The guy's dreaming big. All right, we're on. The guy's dreaming big. At that point, they've also got space tourism.

Right, exactly. How about that for a new market? All right, yeah, that's just sure. How about this? Passenger and cargo transport to the moon and Mars. Who's paying for that? Oh, my God. You're making it sound goofy.

Well, that's, so that's... It's real. That's Starship. They did launch on Friday. And it did land back down, but then tipped over and exploded. Okay, what? So now you want your rockets to stay up, right? I mean, it's like...

So everyone's going like, oh, you're going to send a colony of humans? No. We're going to have... Dip-shit. Optimus robots doing it. He keeps talking about these markets that don't exist. Well, we just need the tech. because once we get to space, we'll probably be finding aliens we can do trade with.

And then you're opening up basically an entire galaxy worth of trade. And what's that total addressable market? 28 trillion? I think it's low when you're talking about how big is the universe ever expanding. Oh! Whoa! Whoa! Hey, everybody.

Welcome back. We're back on the ground floor, everybody. We got our feet back on the ground. We're out of the world. Oh, because we were on the world. out of the World Trade Center. We are never going back. It was harrowing. Say, speak for yourself. I'm going back. I'll never step foot in that place again. You know, I was joking about it last week. I couldn't stop thinking about the planes outside the windows. I'm not the only one. I've talked to people since.

I was like, we recorded in the World Trade Center and we're on the 70 second. 70th? Yeah, something up there. And one of my friends, his wife works in the building. Another friend works in the building. and they were like, dude, sometimes it's like all I can think about. Whoa, like they're afraid of a plane coming? Yeah, and they're like, it's just so weird being so high. My friend's wife was at first like on the 80th floor, and then their offices moved down to the 30s, and they're like, oh, this is so much more. Thank God we'll be able to escape.

Yeah. God forbid. Yeah, not me, man. I'm too busy. I'm thinking about how awesome it is to be up so high. I'm not worried about planes up there. I don't know, which is strange. It's not just the plane.

Something about it's distracting. I shouldn't be that high, wouldn't I? I'm not a bird. That's true. You're laughing in the face of God. It really does feel that way. And then they're like, create shareholder value now. You're like, I can't.

I'm just thinking about how we shouldn't be here. Well, we made it. We're back. Also, sorry about the, there was clearly some technical difficulties and we apologize. I took a pill and it made me blurry. And there was nothing we could do. We couldn't fix it in post. So I didn't take one of those pills today.

I actually did take a Zophan on my way here. What's that? It's anti-nautia. Were you nauseous? I've been getting, I've been feeling nauseated, which is the way you're supposed to say it. It's not I am nauseous. Nauseous, whatever, how the hell?

Who cares, man? I mean, I didn't ask for like a pedantic. I was just asking if you feel nauseous. Honestly, who cares? We're doing the Q&A probably next week, so Ben and Emile Show. dot com get in there and we'll drop the phone number for you for you is to do the Q&A. We got a great episode today.

We're talking all about the SpaceX IPO and I'm going to be, I'm going to be debating a meal here. I am going to be arguing against it. You're the bearish case. I'm the bearish case. And I will be highlighting all sorts of things from their S1 filing, detailing what the whole business entails and what you are. essentially betting on and why I'm going to make the case for why, no matter what you do,

you're probably going to end up owning some SpaceX in a roundabout way. Which is very annoying. Anyway, which is not good. This is going to be hard for me. If this was, you know, you ever see those, like, they do these debates now where, I mean, they've probably done it for a very long time where, like. These baits? At the end, they'll ask the audience, like, there will be some kind of voting mechanism and

you can get in real time, like, who won the debate or whatever. Yeah. If we were to do that, you would be like, Ben is right. And I agree with Ben. And a lot of times it's going to seem like I have a head wound or something from trying to say this is a good idea. Well, because there are some elements of this that are positive. But also the only reason I feel any optimism about a SpaceX IPO is because I'm so wrong about everything. Like, you know, you talk to people.

The people who seem like they're crazy, I'm like, okay, it just keeps happening for them. Everything is working. Nothing makes any sense. Nothing is rational. Why wouldn't this work? That's a good point. And there are structural elements to this that will reinforce Emil's point here. And there's so much consensus.

Yeah. That this is just an... Consensus is sexy. Well, no, I'd say it's the opposite. There's so much, like, that it makes me feel... It's like when there's like a heavily favorite athlete going into a tournament or something. You're like, he's going to blow it. It's too much pressure.

You can't handle all that. They're like, there's a 99% chance he's winning. But I don't know. It's just wild how many people who are like this get the fuck out of it as soon as you can. Yeah. I was also, I appreciate what you just said, but I was making a joke about consent is sexy. And I said consensus is sexy. wanted to highlight that for everybody just so that they know that that was meant to be a joke.

But yeah, consensus, I agree. I was trying to think also of an athlete or some instance where it's a certainty, but then it's, I don't know, there's a chance that something goes wrong. Yeah. I don't know. It's like every sure bet. Then all of a sudden. Well, everybody, strap in, settle in, or strap on, strap on, settle in.

Strap on. I've got my Diet Coke here. I've got it in my, my, this is like a cup that a Latina, one of those women with Latinas, one of those Latina women with big fake nails makes her like, help me out here. What's her deal? She like makes drinks with a lot of sugar in it and she like, chewing gum and stuff. Yeah, it's kind of like that. And this is definitely one of hers.

It's called a Fiesta Cup. Are those her brand or something? that'd be really smart of her to have a brand of her own cup a party cup fiesta cup yeah oh and hey uh those american express gold cards you better get it while the getting's good and that bonus the sign-up bonus is 100,000 points for it drops back down to 75,000 a credit card list dot com summer's here jet fuel is skyrocketing that the straight is never opening they don't listen to trump's truth they just bombed them again. So you're going to want some points if you have any intention on traveling.

Well, okay, so here we go. SpaceX. Space exploration company is what that X stands for. Space X. And essentially with this company, you are betting only on Elon Musk. Nothing more. We're in agreement there. That's all you're betting on.

You are betting on Elon Musk. So I've got their S-1 here, which is their, how many pages is this goddamn thing? It is 200 and, oh, I don't even know. It's a few hundred pages. And the first few, the first dozen are pretty pictures. I mean, I've got to hand it to whoever designed this thing because it's very pretty. Which I will say. I don't spend a lot of time scrolling through S-1s, but apparently that is pretty abnormal to just start off with like the first five to six.

pages of just high-res pictures of rockets. So they've got their mission that they, first of all, there's a ton of definitions, which is really fun. And I've got to skip through here to get to the, whoa, there's actually a quote from Elon in here. It says, you want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. And that's what being a space-faring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and thinking that the future will be better than the past. and I can't think of anything more exciting

than going out there and being among the stars. Amen, brother, amen. There's a lot of that. Okay, the whole thing is like full of, what's this phrase he uses? Extending the light of consciousness to the stars. That phrase appears in the S-1 a lot.

Yeah. And so there's like a lot of these kind of goofy, you know, we don't want the humans to go the way of the dinosaurs. That's literally... literally. Why did the dinosaurs just build their fucking rockets, the morons? Man, motherfucker, I'm going to get to that.

We got the, yeah, they should have built it. They may, for all we know, they did have rockets. For all we know, their little arms were actually part of something bigger. But their mission, according to the S-1, our mission is to build the systems and technologies necessary to make life multi-planetary, to understand the true nature of the universe, and to extend the light of consciousness to the stars. To do this, we have formed the most ambitious, vertically integrated innovation. engine on and off Earth, with unmatched capabilities to rapidly manufacture and launch space-based

communications that connect the world, to harness the sun to power a truth-seeking artificial intelligence that advances scientific discovery and ultimately to build a base on the moon and cities on other planets. Pretty incredible stuff. You don't buy that. Um, well, that's, it goes back to how they're not inspired. Their whole ambition is a lot of, how would I say, fluff. It reads like a penny stock, a penny stock thing. A penny stock company. He also, they also mention, what were you going to say?

It looked like you were about to say something. No, no, go. They also mention Cardishev type 2 a few times, which is definitionally in here. It refers to a civilization that harnesses the full energy output of its local star, like our son, to power unprecedented growth and sustain the civilization's existence. So it goes on in their thing. So you say penny stock. I say sci-fi.

The guy's dreaming big. All right, we're on. The guy's dreaming big. He is dreaming big. This is good. I like this. We believe that our current space efforts will catalyze transformative breakthroughs that could reshape terrestrial industries

and lead to the emergence of new trillion-dollar markets on the moon, Mars, and beyond. In particular, we believe. We believe our goal of establishing a lunar presence will enable terawatt-scale annual AI compute growth, support deeper space exploration and industrialization, and serve as a stepping stone to establishing a civilization on Mars. We believe the next paradigm shift for humanity is the creation of a resilient, perpetually expanding space-faring civilization that drives continuous innovation across new frontiers, ultimately propelling us to a Kardashev type 2 status.

We believe we are capable of unlocking an era, of unprecedented economic expansion while also contributing to the safeguards of humanity's future against existential risk. And Cardishiv was a term that was already established? That just means- It's a Cardishav type two. Okay.

Yeah, I guess I don't know what the type one is. They say that their repeatable business model is built on engineering-driven framework and engineering-driven framework combines their parallel, unparalleled launch capabilities, extreme vertical integration, rapid iteration, and disciplined capital investment to create durable, large-scale businesses. And they're executing this framework through the following core principles.

So again, this is their business model. Number one, they're going to leverage... He says business model, like it's not real. I just want to, he's leading the witness a little bit. Fair, okay. Sustained, self-sustained. Number one in their business model. They are going to leverage their unprofileged.

parallel launch capabilities to enable massive scale. You're making it sound goofy. Well, that's, so that's, it's real. That's Starship, which they need, they do list in their risks. And they did launch on Friday. And it did land back down, but then tipped over and exploded. Okay, what? So now you want your rockets to stay up, right?

I mean, it's like, I like this. Number two, identify and create new trillion dollar market opportunities. That's just so, anybody could say. Why doesn't anybody have that in their business model? We're going to just identify and create out of nothing new ones. We're punishing the guy for seeking out new trillion dollar markets. Such as? They're not there yet.

That's why he's seeking them out. Okay, fine. Number three, design a solution with world-class engineering and first principles thinking. The man is obsessed with first principles thinking. He is obsessed with first principles. I will give you that one. Yeah. Number four, apply question.

quote, the algorithm. And in parentheses, make less dumb, delete, optimize, accelerate, automate. I truly, I'm... You saw what he did with Doge, so... Did he apply the algorithm? Probably. I guess he did make less dumb, delete, optimize, accelerate, and automate certain things. And by delete, I think they mean they might have killed like half a million people by...

Number five, vertically integrate all the way to the end consumer. in what business I'm not sure actually. Number six, continuously drive costs down and throughput up. And finally, number seven, generate significant cash flow and reinvest in the future. Now, that I like. You can't tell me that. That actually sounds pretty good. I like cash flow.

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AI automatically logs, calls, generates summaries, and flags next step so nothing falls through the cracks. And it can even qualify leads or respond after hours so your business stays on, even when you're off. Hey, look at me, okay? Money is on the line. Always say, hello, with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash base. That's QUO.com slash base. Wow. They talk a lot about, I mean, there's just a lot of, like we said, there's a lot of what-ifs and a lot of just like begging you to use your, not even begging. They're just shamelessly talking about using your imagination. They talk, they have their growth strategies in space, connectivity, AI, and I like this,

future markets. So what we, what I just mentioned, these future markets that they have yet to identify and create. Well, they, I mean, there are, they do list some things, right? I mean, they talk about, and again, I know none of this has happened. And I do believe, uh, when they said some of this stuff was going to happen, we're like, we've either blown past the, uh, deadline. They gave themselves to make it happen or we're never going to see it. Long haul point to point terrestrial travel, which I think was one they said would have happened by now or maybe they have two more years. They have two more years. And just so everybody knows, point to point terrestrial travel. Within earth. Means rocket goes up and as the rocket just goes straight up, the earth turns below it

and the rocket comes back down, which in theory sounds really great. And it would like you're, So I just hop on a rocket in New York and I land in Tokyo like 25 minutes later. Yes, exactly right. It sounds pretty awesome. And I can't wait for two years when that happens. Except for think about how many G forces would be acting against your body. That would be so fucking intense. They're essentially saying that they're going to completely, it would probably also be prohibitively expensive.

Oh my God. I mean, only Katie Perry is going to be able to do it. Okay. To that point, they've also got space tourism. Right, exactly. How about that for a new market? All right, yeah, that's sure. You're telling me that could maybe not be a trillion dollar?

It could be, sure. Why not? He's with me. Why not? How about this? Passenger and cargo transport to the moon and Mars? Yeah, who's paying for that? Oh, my God.

Who's on the moon and Mars saying, damn, get over here. We need passengers and cargo. As soon as they get this going, they're going to have all kinds of, the Kushners are going to get up there. building resorts. It's going to be, it's going to be crazy. You forgot in-orbit manufacturing, too. I actually didn't. You're just skipping ahead of me because I thought you might like energy production on the moon and Mars.

Nope, he's not into it. In-orbit manufacturing? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because it's going to be so much easier to do it in zero or low gravity for whatever reason than it would be to do here on Earth. How about this one? I think you're having a hard time argue against this. Asteroid mining. Astroid mining is definitely sure. I mean, why not? That's one that's been around for a long time. People have talked about that.

I do want to, okay, so I'm joking a lot with this. I'm obviously having fun. I do want to point, there is a part of me that's like, this is also ridiculous, but also at a certain point. I feel like we're living in this very strange age of tech, where I feel like we kind of like, blew through the internet age, the app age, all that stuff. And we kind of had this weird spinning out thing where like it was crypto and like Web 3.0.

And now AI and it's like leaning into robotics and it feels like either someone has to make some kind of big leap and take massive swings or it's just going to be. squeezing margins yeah I don't know and so there's like a bit of me that's like yes this is fucking nuts and I think that's kind of my big thing

I think that like the you know the bowl case is all these risks you're talking about it's like yeah I don't think he can do it the bull case is literally a child like a 10 year olds imagine

they might have Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs might as well have asked a 10 year old Hey, what kind of company would you make, little guy? Yeah. Dream as big as you want. Imagine that there's no limit. I won't go space and on the moon and Mars and we'll go manufacture in space too.

Keep going, little guy. Asteroids got diamonds on them, right? Yeah, yeah. What if we landed on the asteroids and, I don't know, mine on them also? Yeah, that's great. I also want to go to space. Can I go to space too? Yeah, little guy.

What number would you say for, I don't know, total addressable market? What's that mean? 23 trillion? Well, I'm glad you asked that little guy that I'm now addressing as myself. They believe that they're identity, they believe that they've got a handy little chart in here and we'll have it up on screen. SpaceX is total estimated tam by segment. So they've got their space enabled solutions, meaning just rockets and whatnot. a modest $370 billion market that they believe they can take a piece of.

Starlink, broadband, and Starlink mobile. They value at a potential $1.6 trillion market. Starlink is a genuinely impressive... Yes, it's like the only thing... And profitable wing of this whole thing. Yeah. He literally should have just made that a company. Yeah.

I also... Okay, so going on, AI is a very, very big part of it. They've got AI infrastructure at $2.4 trillion. Consumer subscriptions at $760 billion. Digital advertising at $600 billion. And then enterprise applications for AI, $22.7 trillion addressable market, bringing their total addressable market for all of SpaceX's businesses to $28.5 trillion. By comparison, the United States GDP is $32,000.

trillion. So they're just a couple trillion dollars shy of the entire gross domestic product of the United States. That is beyond ambitious. That's just, it's literally just made up. Give me a second. Okay. Okay, you're talking about one planet. He's talking about the entire solar galaxy. So like honestly that number seems small to me at this point. Oh, by the way, there is a caveat in here for illustrative purposes of sizing our addressable market. opportunity. We exclude China and Russia from our global estimates. So why don't we dig into how much money these so that you've got their space business, connectivity, AI, and total, their total reportable segments. The space, this is for the three months ended March 31st of this year. Their space segment

only pulled in $619 million. I mean, we're early days here. On which they lost 6606.6.6.6. $62 million. Their connectivity, $3.2 billion, on which they made $1.1 billion. Pretty good. Starlink is going well. AI, $818 million.

Not very good. On which they lost $2.4 billion. So they're not really doing too well in the AI space, which is the biggest part of what they are saying has the most potential. And don't forget, they just acquired XAI for like $250 billion. It is by far the biggest suck on their balance sheet, but also the one that they say has the

most potential. The whole thing just reads like, I'm like tapping into my inner Ed Zitron here. It really is crazy making because it's just, it's just, it's suck Elon's cock. It's the SEC thing. And it is, you even sent me that there's this guy, Bubble Boy on Twitter, who, like, he has this bullish case with their AI that, you know, XAI is the wild card in the AI race. And he's comparing Elon to John D. Rockefeller with his standard oil thing. Because basically they're leasing compute power to other companies. They just made this huge deal with Anthropic. And the trouble is it's even for $15 billion. a year. It's even hard for me to use this one because he doesn't include this. I'm pretty sure with this deal they made with Anthropic, it like can be canceled at basically any time with Nandy Dandthor. So even that is just like this massive risk wrapped up in itself.

I don't know. I don't necessarily see this as the strongest case for. getting the strongest case as ben said the strongest case for getting into this is because you think Elon might pull something crazy off like this this is not there's a good i mean i just want to get it in here there's a good i sent it to you the matt levine matt levine wrote a piece for it and he said the upshot is that space x shareholders can't sue for breaches of fiduciary duty and they can only barely sue for securities fraud this is bad corporate governance but it is also correct this is how it should work. If you are buying SpaceX stock to tell Elon Musk what to do, you should stop.

If you are buying SpaceX stock because you want exposure to the space slash AI business, but you have your doubts about current management, you should stop. If you are buying SpaceX stock because you like Elon Musk and want to go along for the ride with him, yes, that's correct. That's the investment thesis here. If later you are disillusioned with Elon Musk, if you feel like you were misled and he didn't do the stuff he promised to do, I mean, that's also kind of his whole thing. It is possible that in hindsight you will find something bad about SpaceX that was not specifically disclosed in this prospectus, but at a meta level, everyone knows everything about SpaceX,

Musk's going to do whatever weird stuff he wants, and if you don't like it, that's your problem. That's exactly right. Yeah. I just want to go back to some of the numbers, because I will get to that. They've lost $37 billion in the last 24 years. How much?

37 billion in the last 24 years. And that's not good? That's not good. Okay. They say, I mean, a lot of companies like this that are still in their, I guess, technically kind of growth phase say we may never achieve profitability. They have that in their risk section. Their capital expenditures last year was 20.7 billion. They have $29 billion in debt.

But remember, they're trying to raise $75 billion in this IPO sale. So most of what they're going to raise is just going to go straight to the debtors, the creditors that they've, just taking money from. Some of which they just got a few weeks ago. They like just took on more debt a few weeks ago and they're going to just use your money to Peter to pay Paul or whatever they said. And that's just a bunch of VC guys who have been funding this. Yes. So like I said, AI is being touted as the main driver here, which is kind of, it's... I think I saw AI appears in the whole S1, I think somewhere like a 1, 200 times. Yes. They mentioned that GROC and GROC's integration into X is a differentiator between all the other AI companies

because of X's real-time, its ability to gather information in real-time. But GROC only has 3.4% market share. Their own engineers don't even use GROC because it's unreliable, which is why they're trying to buy cursor for $60 billion. So that's another thing that they're probably going to drop a bunch of money. on is acquire this other thing that's superior to their own product. And if that deal falls through, they actually are going to owe a cursor $10 billion in like a cancel. What do they call that? A burn fee or whatever? I forgot the phrase. And like you said, Anthropic is going to pay over

$15 billion to rent compute from SpaceX, which is kind of funny because don't they need that compute? If AI is going to be their biggest potential driver to this, 26 trillion dollar potential market. But they say in their prospectus that they have enough compute for both Anthropic and for them. I enjoyed this. They have ongoing litigation that they have to disclose of just shy of $400 million, including one for Grock for creating non-consensual explicit images of women and or children. I also think this is another thing.

I'm bullish on, okay? like he's not afraid to get out there. It's the only non-woke one. It's the only non-woke one. It's the only sexy one. All the other ones, it's so hard to jack off to. It's like,

Sam Altman keeps putting governors on these things. Anthropic won't even let me come near. Letting Claude describe what his panty smell like or anything like that. I mean, Annie's just, Annie's doing anything. That little cartoon bear, he'll let you fucking,

I forgot about that. Elon's kind of on the frontier with this one. Hey, everybody. We've got to take one more quick break. What's that up in the sky? Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's a rocket.

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They purchased over $500 million worth of Tesla megapack products, which are like batteries and shit like that, energy storage, which is you could argue that that is absolutely useful for SpaceX. but then they bought $131 million worth of cyber trucks. You don't think that'll be useful on the moon? Yeah, that's a good point. It's probably useful in there. But that just, I want to point out that that's, that underscores a history that Elon Musk has

with just kind of doing shit that helps one company. And some very squirrely financial dealings. This is exactly what he did with Solar City. Years ago, he bought out his own, he absorbed Solar City into Tesla, arguing that they were going to, it's imperative to the success of Tesla because we're going to have these solar roof panels and all sorts of shit. And it didn't fucking pan out. Which I mean, this whole thing kind of like has been that, right? I mean, absorbed X, absorbed

X, absorbed XAI, absorbed. I mean, there's some, I don't even, you probably know better than me. I don't know how accurate any of that reporting is that like Tesla could eventually be absorbed. That's certainly impossible. And truly this filing shows that Elon is above everyone and everything. And I'm not kidding or exaggerating. It's like he's become so influential and so wealthy and so powerful. Which I think it's also part of the bullish case. I mean, I'm not joking.

That is true. This guy could truly be a too big to fail moment, especially when you're factoring in all of the defense contracts, all of the, you know, just like all of the government. contracts tied up in this. His own, I mean, maybe we can insert the clip of him, or not him. Ashley St. Clair on Hassan's stream just fully showing her text messages of Elon, like, on election night being like, tonight we release the anomaly.

I own all the lasers in space. And like, I'm just going to, I'm going to run election interference. How does he, he actually talks like this? Yes, he actually talks like this. And I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said this. Can I read this one? Yes, you can read the whole thing. Okay.

You can read anything except my picmeasms. Okay, I'm feeling more optimistic after tonight. And tomorrow we unleash the anomaly in the Matrix. And then this is not something on the chess board. So they will be quite surprised. In air quotes, lasers from space. What? And you made a joke.

It was a mortuary killer. Yeah, you made a Jewish space laser joke. Is it finally a focus on the Jewish vote? And he laughed at it. And then I have over 10,000 lasers in space right now. So he doubles down and says, and quantifies his number of space laser.

So he did say that stuff. And then, okay, so in conjunction with that, then he's sending me the internal data from America PAC where he's like tracking the real-time delta vote metrics. He has like the cash prizes as incentives. Like, it was... Yeah, it wasn't that illegal? I don't even understand how that was just like allowed.

guess you can do that. If you're a billionaire, you can do that. If you're Israel, it's cool. It's great. America is up for sale. What a penis. So I'm not sitting here defending it. I'm just being like... It is what it is. And that is probably good for the company. Yeah. So just to recap where we are so far, you've got these outlandish, truly not even pie in the sky, pie in the fucking solar system, ambitious if you want to fantastical fantasy

potential markets in the trillions of dollars that don't exist yet some of which don't exist yet the technology isn't there yet if ever and even then it probably might not ever be profitable for them

they've got it's just a lot of big big numbers to make it look really appealing but it's not at all grounded in reality Okay, but that's Ben's version. My version is they can make this happen. They're going to have, they're going to absorb Tesla.

We're going to have optimist robots building the Mars colony. So everyone's going like, oh, you're going to send a colony of humans? No. We're going to have optimist robots doing it. He keeps talking about like these markets that don't exist. Well, we just need the tech because once we get to space, we'll probably be finding aliens. We can do trade with. And then you're opening up basically an entire galaxy worth of trade.

And what's that total addressable market? Honestly, I think the $23 trillion is low. I think... 28 trillion. I think it's low when you're talking about how big is the universe ever expanding. You know what? Fuck it, you're right. Let's go on to the corporate structure, shall we?

There were three major U.S. public pension funds, one representing New York City, New York State, and California. They described the SpaceX corporate governance structure, excuse me, as, quote, the most management favorable governance structure ever brought to the U.S. public markets at this scale. What does that mean? That means that this thing is fucking ironclad. It is Elon's company, period.

That's it. Fuck you. Fuck you. Period. He can pick a majority of the board. He can't be removed his CEO without his own consent. Good. I want him to have as much power as possible.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. Because his shares carry 10 votes to everyone else. else is one vote. He's made his own class of shares. Class B shares all belong to Elon. So he effectively has over 85% of voting shares. But he only owns about 41% of the company, right? Something like that, yeah.

Yeah. So that sounds great. And you might be now saying, okay, so just don't buy it, right? Also, if you don't like it, don't fucking buy it, you stupid baby bitch. The other thing I want to point out is, and maybe you're going to get to it, just to be fair, there's also, like the way it's structured. he also can't be on the hook for anything. Like that Matt Levine stuff we were talking about,

he really can do whatever he wants. He can't get sued. I'll get to that. And he can basically just wash his hands clean of everything. Yeah, okay. It's just... If something else catches his eye, and he's like, you know what, space travel,

this is not going to work, whatever. He could just be like, you know what, this is my new shiny thing, and I'm going to start doing that. Yeah, so he's also able to, anything that he creates outside of SpaceX or, yeah, he can just start another company and you don't own any of it and it's his and sure, fine.

So you don't have to buy this, right? Except if you're like the majority of people in America with a 401k or an IRA or you own shares of like you own Vanguard shares. The Bogelheads Reddit is not happy. No. I will say. And here's why. Normally, when a company.

becomes public. You know, we've talked about, you guys know the S&P 500, you know the NASDAQ 100, they come with sets of rules that companies have to, they've got requirements that companies have to meet in order to be included in those indexes. And upon inclusion, there are all kinds of pension funds and funds that track those indexes that reflexively have to buy whatever's in the index, right? To the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Right, because they just own the market.

It's not like you're not picking. So Elon basically, it was part of, it was part of SpaceX's requirement to be listed on the NASDAQ. The NASDAQ was like, oh, oh, we want you on the NASDAQ, Daddy. We want you to list your shares here. Forget the New York Stock Exchange. Forget the American Stock Exchange. We want you to list your shares on the NASDAQ,

and we'll do anything you want. Whatever you want, Daddy. You want fast-track inclusion? Oh, whatever you want. Basically, what would otherwise take six months to a year for a company to be included in the NASDAQ, they're now fast-tracking it within 15 days. Yeah, and why do they usually do that?

because of a thing called price discovery. You know, you've got Cerebrus just went public a couple weeks ago. It takes a while for us, for people to kind of figure out collectively. What it's worth. What it's worth. What the market thinks, what the supply and demand, how things are going to shake out. There's quarterly reports that are going to be coming out that you can start to gauge, okay, is this a good buy?

Is this something I should wait for? there is a track record to be established as a publicly traded company. With this, there's none of that. It's just, we're just jamming it in there. We're just jamming it in there. A lot of people are pissed about this one. A lot of people are pissed about this one. Michael Burry wrote a big thing.

Oh, yeah. Everybody's fucking like, are we all collectively losing our minds? Because it's just 15 days straight into the NASDAQ, which means all these pension funds, the New York City, New York State, California, the ones that were like, this is fucking bullshit. We don't want to, we're not going to touch us. Guess what, bitch? Elon says you have to.

Fuck you. Because the NASDAQ says, oh, daddy, we want you in our, we want you in our NASDAQ 100. We'll do anything, anything you want. So it's being included in there. So all these funds are going to reflexively buy into it. And it's just kind of a big fuck you. Oh, and by the way, if Elon fucks up or if the company fails its fiduciary duty, guess what? you can only sue

SpaceX if you own more than 3% of the company. So you're only eligible to sue, and these pension funds are going to, that's like, at the current valuation, it's like $50 billion worth of stock. Ain't nobody going to be able to sue. They can't sue for breaches of fiduciary duty.

Elon can basically do whatever he wants, especially now that he's in Texas, because that's a big part of it. Texas doesn't give a flying fuck. They let Elon, I mean, Greg Abbott fucking congratulations. He congratulated him when he moved from Delaware. Because in Delaware, when Elon and Tesla got sued by some fucking pissant small shareholder,

tied him up in court. So he's like, fuck you, Delaware. I'm going to Texas where they don't give a shit about rules and regulations. They can route their securities lawsuits through Texas or private arbitration, which means that it's basically he's just a he's like a bulletproof duck. The water rolls right off he back. and you try to shoot him with a gun, ain't going to,

ain't going to, it's not, it's not just the Bogleheads ready. You want to hear it. There's a very funny on, on investing, the R slash investing. Someone came to them and said,

I have 1,000 shares of SpaceX stocks. SpaceX stock. What do I do for this IPO? And he basically used to, he used to work there, and he's just been sitting on a thousand shares. Good for him. SpaceX stock.

And the top comment, it's been, upvoted, Over 1,600 times. Wow. Get the fuck out while you can. Overvalued is the understatement of this entry. You could hold the stock for 30 years and it could never hit 2 trillion again.

Those might be famous last words because there's going to be so much automatic buying on this thing. I truly don't even know how that's going to look. I don't know what that's going to be. On to one last thing that I really love about the corporate structure here, part of his... Pay package is he's awarded a billion more shares upon a million people being put on Mars and a $7.5 trillion valuation. But here's the thing. Even if those things aren't achieved, he can still pledge those shares are still just, they might as well be real.

Because he can do what all billioners do, especially when they own a ton of stock. he can pledge them for collateral and borrow against them, even if they're not technically like his and awarded. He can get dividends with them. He can also, he can vote with them. And yeah, like I said, he can also just bail and do whatever he wants at any point. And there's no recourse whatsoever. So basically, as we've said, as I've said,

do you want to buy a cash flow positive business? Sorry. Do you want to do anything? Basically just forget everything and it's all about just you're buying Elon. You're buying a piece of Elon. And it is ultimately whether you think... In Toronto, every arrival is a statement and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025.

Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19 speaker AKG surround audio system. This city demands agility and Optic delivers with precision to make every drive, extraordinary. Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. His schstick can continue unabated. Which up until this point it has. Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing. Like, you say all this stuff and I'm with you. All of these people, I'm with, you know, the Redditors. I'm with like the the very legitimate professionals who are like pulling their hair out going,

we've never seen anything like this. This is unbelievable. But at every turn, it feels very Trumpian. Oh, yeah. You go, I mean, since basically 2015, we've been watching Trump and we're going, ooh, he really did it now. No way he wriggles his way out of this one. And now here we are in 2026.

Ah, nevertheless. Truly. And I mean, how many, like, the jokes it seemed like it's been over so many times I mean remember when that tweet where it was like

it was like something like Elon slamming his slamming his dick in the car door or whatever and then it's like Elon fans like masterful gambit sir Oh yeah yeah That probably that probably came out around

the time of the Twitter thing when he was like buying it 44 billion dollars and people were like it's valued at $8 billion dollars what a moron blah blah here we are it's like it feels like masterful gambit sir you know what i mean he's he ended up buying it he absorbs it into SpaceX and this whole conglomerate he's building he controls narratives um he's poisoned everyone's brains with his like right wing slop well not only that but uh i neglected to mention how morgan stanley and the other bankers who were underwater and had to hold

that debt on their books for the longest time for the uh for his acquisition of X, they're now not only made whole, they're very much profitable because it's a backscratching thing. And they're part of this. They're the ones underwriting it, and they're set to make a fuck ton on their fees.

And that's the thing. People like that are like, sure, we'll back him on this. And then there's a bunch of people standing on the sidelines going, none of this makes sense. Look at the fundamentals. What the vote is going on?

It's like, well, I'm with you. What the fuck is going on? But sorry, we live in crazy town, pal. So what are the risks here? Losing Elon Musk is probably their biggest risk because the entire thing is contingent upon him and his unfettered genius. I mean, also very Trumpian.

It feels like as soon as that man fucking croaks, which he may never, it's like one of those guys who could truly just live forever. But like there is nothing that can hold that MAGA thing together. Yeah. They emphasize Starship as a major risk regarding the execution on everything because Starship is so much bigger

it enables them to do all of the space economy stuff, the moon, everything that we talked about is all contingent on Starship. Mars, Space Travel. Yes. Starlink. Interterrestrial rocket.

Well, it's all of that stuff. And then the data centers to power the AI that they think has this massive, massive market that they're somehow going to take from the other companies that are fucking beating the shit out of them. Oh, did we even talk about the data centers in space? I mean, come on.

Oh, that's one of them, yeah. Everyone's so pissed about the data centers here. He's got the best idea. Yeah. No one cares if they're in orbit. They do talk about space-related risks like space debris, launch failures, et cetera, regulatory risks. And here's a couple quotes. Many of our initiatives, including those to develop orbital AI compute at scale, manufacture AI chips at scale, establish a lunar economy, develop human augmentation systems, and transport humans and cargo to the moon and Mars, involve significant. technical complexity, unproven technologies or technologies that don't exist, or may require significant advancement, and such initiatives may not achieve commercial liability. Several of our

anticipated market opportunities, including certain AI, orbital, lunar, and interplanetary transportation and industrial activities are still emerging and evolving or do not currently exist, and such markets may not develop as we expect or at all. even if he so do you think this is correct even if he were like even if you fully believed he could do all these things right and then and it was coming in whatever the next decades great question it would still be overvalued in this current moment yes that like i want to make by orders of magnitudes right it would be like if i don't know think of any great technology but you know decades before it was even feasible some guy was like i need i need you to help me raise 80 billion

dollars this thing is going to be and everyone's going what the fuck are you talking about we're even close or like i mean imagine someone and i get it imagine someone explaining the the the economic feasibility of something like amazon 20 years ago you'd be like yeah that sounds fucking prohibitively impossibly expensive and something like this who knows i mean shit but speaking of being overvalued this uh this IPO values them at 107 times their revenue and just for perspective on that, when Facebook went public, they went public at 28 times. So this is already just about five times bigger than that. Palantir, meanwhile, has the highest multiple in the entire S&P, which is about 64. So it's just about double that. I mean, it is as

bloated, it's as bloated as I felt the other night, man, when I had so much damn Italian food and then ice cream and imagine yeah just super bloated but it's basically just you've already missed out on the up this thing is so overvalued yeah there's no upside for you

to even get in on let's say you want to put $10,000 in this this is what I know it sounds childish but this is something that people need to remember at a $2 trillion dollar valuation if you put in 10 grand

in order to see just 5 grand return this thing has to go up 50% to $3 trillion. What the fuck is going to cause it? Other than just this reflexive buying, which I guess could be a thing. This is going to be so fascinating to watch. I really can't wait.

It's like... I mean, if other companies were valued in this way, you would... I mean, I'm thinking of that stock. Remember CRML that pumped? Mm-hmm. The Greenland lithium or whatever the... Right. It would be very similar to, you know, that stock would now be...

massively valued just because of the sheer potential of untapped resources to mine that and if Elon owned it he'd be screaming to everyone oh you're so stupid for not getting in on this thing this is the biggest opportunity of all time it really is a shame because wrapped within this are a couple good businesses like Starlink and SpaceX to a lesser extent but there's so much crap in do-do caca feces just absolutely like you really

got to dig down in some poop poopo do-doodoo to get to the like maybe little diamond and even then it's just so bloated We're going to be on asteroids There's going to be the biggest diamonds you've ever seen What do you suspect will happen?

So this is going to I believe it's June 12 June 12, which is a Friday. This will go public. You will be able to buy. I imagine we'll cover it again when it actually does go live. I'm honestly, I'm excited to see what happens. I'm extremely curious.

I think from what I can tell online, people have the sense that there will be a bit of an upward trajectory, and then it's going to all come. I mean, I remember when, I remember watching when Facebook. went public and it just kind of it just kind of didn't do much that day it just kind of stayed within the range because you know they've got all kinds of there's probably going to be entities that want to front run the NASDAQ inclusion so there's going to be there is a lot of demand for it so the supply that the company itself is dumping onto the market to the tune of 75 billion dollars is probably there's probably enough demand for it to be observed.

And case in point, a lot of the other stocks in the space sector have been on an absolute tear. And it's very much to my chagrin because 10 years ago, it would have been counterintuitive. And you would have thought, oh, man, why are all the space stocks going down? I would have thought that that was a layup. Whoa, it's too crowded. Now it doesn't matter. Even if it's crowded, get your fat ass on the bus.

We can fit more people. Rocket Lab has just continued to go vertical Redwire has gone vertical Planet Labs has gone vertical Lunar, I forgot there ticker symbol L-U-N-R which is fun pretty much vertical

Will that continue? I doubt it but yeah or I think that a lot of that capital is probably going to start to flow out of those names and into the SpaceX IPO is just my guess but man oh man

I mean also one more thing I want to point out like I don't have a great memory of Tesla going public but I feel but I think when that was happening

I think people would have found that company there was a lot of kind of very kooky shit going on of them like just to piggyback off what you were saying there were a lot of things about their what Elon Musk was envisioning with you know a certain number of cars being

sold a year, a certain number being manufactured a year. And him getting by the skin of his teeth, them patching shit together at the last minute, not having any kind of workable product. It's, you know, it's conjuring similar images of this. And as someone who, I'm sure this is so common with so many people our age, it's like, everyone's always going like, I just need, I just need that one thing. And then everything will be okay. In 10 years, it'll make me a bunch of money, and I'll retire, and blah, blah, blah.

And it's hard to, and maybe that's just what makes me even a little bit optimistic. You're like, well, what if this is the one? We've already, I've already watched it happen so many times. And so I don't know. You always joke like, oh, there's nowhere, you know, like these companies go public so late And all the investors...

So fucking late. And all the investors missed the upside. But then there's a part of me, I'm like, what if it's early? We haven't even... We haven't even landed on... We haven't even started our moon base yet. Yeah. Because then in five years,

when they got Optimus robots building data centers or whatever, and you're like, oh, it was early. That's the thing. because just to... But deep down inside me, I know that's not going to happen. Because Elon Musk has, yes, he's skated by by the skin of his teeth multiple times where, I mean,

he's even said that they were like on the cusp of bankruptcy a couple of times and they just like kept it successfully hidden from the public, which should be in its own right admitting to some kind of security fraud. Didn't it just... Even if he, I think he did get, I mean, with the 420 funding secured thing, he got sued by the SEC, and by the time that it actually comes to fruition, he's worth so much that it doesn't matter. He's got so much power and influence in capital to pay the fines and move on. And there's a reason why he has said, SEC stands for

Sucke-E-on's cock, because he's untouchable. And yeah, he's used vaporware and stuff in the past to kind of get through presentations and, you know, promising, there are so many things that he is promised with full self-driving and the cyber truck and the roadster and all this shit that just people don't. And at this point, he's literally promising the moon.

He's quite literally promising the moon. And I think what this boils down to is this is exit liquidity for himself, for the banks that he's in bed with and for tons of insiders. And we are all in one way or another part of that exit liquidity, whether as individuals buying the stock or people that... Suckers like me who just want to have a safe bet and buy index funds? Yeah.

That's the part that hurts. It's really confounding. But it's also not going to have a huge impact on me, right? It's not like... I hope. I really, nobody knows. That's the thing. It is so big and so unprecedented and on such a scale that there's no, there's no measuring stick for this.

Not only just the sheer size of the IPO is bigger than anything in history, number one. And then number two, all of this pushed through forced buying with the NASDAQ inclusion so quickly. They're changing the rules for him. It's, uh, I. I'm really quite speechless, and I think a lot of people are. Another thing in his favor... I hope it works out, and I hope everything...

You hope we get to Mars? I sure. Why the fuck not, man? Another thing in his favor, which I don't think this is the most... I don't think this is the biggest factor here, but he is also going to be the first of these big three IPOs. He's beating OpenAI,

and he's beating Anthropic, and is going to be the first of these massive IPOs this year. He's going to be, yeah, the only publicly traded AI exposure you can have, other than the pick and shovels names like Nvidia and Broadcom and all those connectivity names and semiconductors and all that shit. But man, man, again, this thing is, it's a Disneyland ride. It's Space Mountain. You're buying this, for lack of a better word, fantasy of a future.

that does not exist yet that they are assuring you, well, not even assuring you, saying, hey, maybe we can do this. This is, they're truly pulling these, pull a number out of your ass. And that's just as viable as the ones that they've put in this thing. That's, that's it. And again, oh, you don't have to buy it. Sure, you don't. But the rules have been bent so heavily in his favor.

So you kind of, it's just, it's just, it's fucking, it's hard to wrap one's head around because you just feel like surely there's some justice and fairness in the world and in the markets. And this is just like the capstone on all the fuckery that has that has gone on for so long in the last decade plus. And I can't help, but at this point, just kind of masterful gambit, sir. Honestly, masterful gambit. And I think that's kind of my thing. His dick is smushed and it looks great. when you're describing, you know, justice and all that stuff, I do think that's part of it.

They're, there, we've gotten so far from an actual functioning, healthy market. Mm-hmm. And governing bodies that interact with it, that it's just like, yeah,

fuck it. Why wouldn't this guy win? They're literally changing the rules for him. He seems to be, He's on track to become a trillionaire, which is great for him. I hope it makes him happy. I don't think it will.

I think it will make a lot of people insane. Everyone's already insane. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. We had another psycho guy, like, try to kill the president again. Oh, yeah. Well, he was Jesus Christ.

That's what he said. He was Jesus Christ. And they didn't believe him, which is their, God, what if he was, man? What if he was? just like, I'm trying to do, I'm just holding a mirror to you guys. Oh, you respond to PewPew. I'm going to go, I'm Jesus, dude. I'm Jesus. Why don't you believe me? And then the Secret Service just lights you up with a million bullets. Yeah. So all that's to say in, uh, to wrap this up,

I guess, this wouldn't be so bad if they were IPOing at a significantly lower valuation. I would be less. I think that's the thing. I would be less critical if it was say 200 billion or 300, billion or dare I say even 500 billion that's what I was getting at earlier like if they were coming out and they were saying all this obviously the numbers were adjusted and not or you know fine fuck it keep it there you're like whatever 300 billion sure you'd be like you know what and it begs the question why like what is there's something nefarious here why the massive ramp is it fucking is it his ego is it does he does he owe money to a fucking a What's going on, man?

Jesus, God. We may never find out. I'm convinced it's kind of a plate spinning thing between Tesla and fucking Twitter and now SpaceX where he's got debt that relies on other debt that's leveraged tied to his stock and other things. And it's all just something that is so convoluted and hard to understand that even the one's orchestrating it don't fully grasp it. but they know that it's essential and imperative now that it all keeps going. A Ponzi, unlike anything in history, is my, I think that in many years' time, it will all kind of unravel and we will learn, and maybe God willing, on his deathbed,

he will say, oh, wasn't that epic what I did to everybody? I don't know. Wasn't that a big? Wasn't that flown? Wasn't that a big what? Yeah, I feel bewildered, basically. It's gonna be okay, everybody. It's gonna be okay.

It's certainly an interesting time. Yeah. But it's not a, I wouldn't say it's fun to watch. Yeah. Well, let's see. Coming up next in the bonus episode, I got some piss sync updates. You have sync-piss updates.

We have to talk a little bit about the enhanced games. Oh, my God. The WWE and Emil's going to weigh in on the Kim Kardashian bar exam failure. We'll get into it. Yeah. I don't know why she won't just stop. No, she is stopping. Oh, okay.

And let us know in the comments what you think. Are you going to buy the SpaceX IPO? If so, why? And I don't mean that. We've made the case for why. Um, maybe you should buy it and maybe you shouldn't. And it doesn't matter ultimately. So, uh, yeah.

And we're back in LA next week. So we'll be back in the studio and we love you very much. God bless America. Bye. Coming up on this week's episode of Ben and Emile show.com. In the horny energy? No, I'm actively chudding. Isn't chud good?

No, chud bad. Chad good? Chud is good. Chad is good, chud is bad. Chad good, chud bad. I'm just like, I'm just going like this. And they go, who's the chud? I'm trying to fuck. I'm one, I forgot, I think someone tagged me in it. Was there a tennis player? The guy who shit himself? Yeah, yeah, diarrhea on the court. Yeah. And they were like, this is the perfect video. This blends both of your interests. I think it was. To which I say, diarrhea isn't an interest of mine. Is it not? It is something that I have been afflicted by just as much as anybody else. Just as much as the next person. I don't like it. I'm not hoping for diarrhea, but it happens to me just as much as it

happens to you. It's just that the difference between us is that I have someplace to talk about it. And you can't talk to me about yours. You can, but I might not hear about it. But you're sure is happening to hear about mine. But you talk. Yeah, I'm openly like, yeah, I've had travelers diarrhea. But you're interested in it. Fine. You know what? I'm interested in. If we, yeah, fuck it. I'm interested in diarrhea. You better hope for not a spurs next final because... Or hope for it and then Knicks win so that we don't have another crash in another 9-11. We need a redo. Yeah, that's exactly right. We can finally get it right. Then we'll be on the timeline we were always meant to be on. The Knicks winning is actually

imperative for us to get back on the correct timeline. This is the only way we can do it. I think that 9-11 is the... It is everything. The Knicks win. We're bringing every person who perished in 9-11 back from the