The Ben and Emil Show - BAES 173: Vibe Check w/ Kyla Scanlon

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Kyla Scanlon joins us this week to talk about bonds, oil, AI, gambling, and the overall VIBES in America today. BEN & EMIL ON ALIENS OUT NOW: https://youtu.be/aD2_FzsXIAs For bonus episodes, discord access, fan Q&A, merch, Ben's monthly playlist, and to support the show: https://benandemilshow.com/ Give this video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it! And please leave us a comment! It helps us! Edited by - https://www.instagram.com/conrad_roussrad/ Thumbnail by - https://www.instagram.com/cheyedewolf/ For all you audio freaks: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7M0vN85aGO0zdh62hyg03I Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ben-and-emil-show/id1693270208 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/51280f1b-2fbd-4ea9-bdde-e96f70b5b1ae/the-ben-and-emil-show iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-ben-and-emil-show-117763570/ Follow us! TikTok - https://tiktok.com/@thebenandemilshow Instagram - https://instagram.com/benandemilshow Twitter - https://x.com/benandemilshow Ben - https://instagram.com/bencahn Emil - https://instagram.com/emilderosa https://www.youtube.com/emilderosa https://substack.com/@emilderosa Our newest acid video is out now so check it out! https://youtu.be/7vkFY3f5kkw Some other videos of ours you may enjoy: https://youtu.be/qX4pks0ASq8 https://youtu.be/_VOVxt3ZtIE https://youtu.be/5wsoc5pieuA https://youtu.be/dTbEk0pVh2w https://youtu.be/yGSs56bFzRU https://youtu.be/cIHWkY35cuc https://youtu.be/zBvVGHZBpMw https://youtu.be/1ZUWTkWV_MM https://youtu.be/_cM1XqA9n2U Chapters: 00:00: Intro with Kyla 04:40: Bonds! 20:13: Monarch ad 22:03: Housing, inflation, gas 35:26: Trump, Gambling 42:02: Hims ad 43:30: Financial nihilism 54:25: AI 1:04:18: Cashapp ad 1:05:38: AI and our future 1:16:51: Solutions 1:28:51: Book __ MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch—get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core at https://monarch.com with code BAES. HIMS: Ready to regrow your hair? Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/baes CASHAPP: Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zd0taway #CashAppPod Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Cash App Green features, Savings, Direct deposit, Round ups, Overdraft coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. The rate at which bonnials are rising, we've really never seen anything like it. Like, they're just, they're going crazy. And the yield curve. Yeah, it's fun. And can you explain to our audience why that is substantial? So can I try out my explanation for the yield curve?

Of course, please. So you can kind of think of the yield curve like dating. Like dating? Yeah, like, dating, yeah. So, like, you can buy a three-month bond, and that's kind of like a coffee date, right? So you're like, you don't need a lot of commitment. You're like, it's fine, whatever. But if you're going to invest your money somewhere for 30 years, or you're going to get married, right?

You're going to have this long-term relationship. You're going to want a higher return. You're going to want a higher level of commitment. Right now, investors are doing a lot of coffee dates with the United States rather than wanting to get married. Come on, no. No, no, no. They don't want to marry because the U.S. is not a stable partner. The U.S. has some work to do on itself.

We're going to change, babe. We're going to change. Boy, hey, the U.S. government is a very avoidant attachment style right now. Yeah, yeah, spending everything on credit cards, not saving, not thinking about a lot. long-term future. So why would you get married to the U.S. government? I know I showed up hungover to brunch with your parents, but in my defense, I forgot they were coming to town. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of how the U.S. government's acting right now. Hungover at a parental brunch.

That's so embarrassing. I forgot they were coming to town. Hey, everybody. We've got a veritable banger of an episode for you this week. You may be asking yourself, why are they sitting at the same table? Well, that's because, oh, we can do a fun reveal. because back by popular demand, now more than ever, what we've needed in this country and on this show is the one and only, Kyla Scanlon. Yeah.

We can now change the days since someone commented, when's Kyla coming back to zero. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it'll last until Thursday when this comes out because then they'll ask again. Or maybe they'll give us like a week before they start asking again. That's so sweet. They really do love you.

Really? And they hate us. They can't stand us. And they wish we would just go away. But we're not going to. We're like bed bugs or cockroaches. And we refuse to change the name to the Kyla Scanlan show. It's staying the Ben and Emile show. No matter what people say. Until I merger and acquisition. Who will acquire us. Yes, please. Are there going to be layoffs? Do I get to be Larry Ellison? Yeah. Or who's the younger Ellison? David. David. Yeah. My daddy loves me. My daddy bought me a company. Can I be Megan Allison and have a cool indie company? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And Imperna is okay.

They do cool stuff. They do good work, yeah. Anyway, thank you for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. We've got a lot to get to because the vibes are bad. And I don't want to bring, I know everybody, you obviously coined the term vibe session, but I assume that you're probably a little sick of hearing about it. For four years, yeah.

Yeah. Are you sick of hearing about it? It's still very relevant. Yeah. So, I mean, I think it makes sense to keep talking about it. Yeah. I think I just wish we had a solution for it. Yeah.

I just mean, like, you're known for so much more than that. You are more than just that one. Not that that's all people ascribe to you, but you are now an author. You are a published author. Yeah. List all your accolades, please. What are you currently doing? Yeah.

So I work with CNN now. I'm a contributor there. I write for your Times opinion. I have my own substack. I'm a senior fellow at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator. I'm a fellow at AIBM, the American Institute for Boys and Men. Whoa, whoa, what? That exists?

Do you lean in? Yes, Richard. Oh, sorry. I know my, my giant head. Oh, I'm a size XL. A big head? Oh, yeah, huge. Yeah.

Yeah, me too. God, it stinks, doesn't it? Normal size. Really? Shut up over there. Yeah, but now keeping busy, having a lot of fun. So it's good. Yeah, my paperback. In this economy?

Wait, when does the paperback come out? October 6, which is today. Yeah, day of recording. Go get it right now. Go get it right now. Before they sell out. Yeah, new afterward with Terrace and AI. Oh, man.

Yeah, people are clamoring, I hear. Yeah, they're going crazy. There's a line out the door right now. Well, I suppose we can start with bonds because that seems to be... They're the most fun spot. I wanted to talk to you, too, because I feel like the values... session thing is so funny. The vibes are terrible. If you spend any time on

Twitter, it's like the worst. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like getting people to panic, pays. They want... Rage beat, yeah. Yeah. And so anytime something happens, I have to like step outside of this and be like, is this actually happening or are people just kind of profiting off of the terrible vibes?

And I've fallen for a number of times. I've talked about how like I was wrong, way wrong about some of the oil stuff. I got very scared on there. He was a panicking. I was a full panicking. What did you think it was going to happen? I fully thought

if the straight of horoose stayed closed the way it was that, yeah, we were going to see like real consequences that we were going to feel in this country. Like, I was joking about it on when we were talking about Diesel a couple weeks ago and I was like,

I was so wrong. It went viral. That's the thing. everyone, I think, felt the same way. I, like, had a stupid tweet that basically just said, I don't think you're going to Europe this summer, babe. Because I truly, you know, the way people were talking, and it wasn't just like Twitter, there were experts going on MS now

and CNBC and talking about, like, I am, you know, professor at UPenn and I've studied this all my life and were screwed. Yeah. You're not going anywhere. And now the bond thing is a thing. a thing I understand way less. And so now it's even more difficult for me to just, you know,

you see a tweet that's like, everyone's worried about bombs dropping in Iran, but what about the bond market that's going to explode? And you're like, what's going to happen? Yeah. So should we panic or do you think we'll be okay? About bonds?

Yes. I mean, it's not great what's happening. Why don't we start with, we know this stuff, But for the laymen out there, you know, what are bonds? I'll be honest. I don't like that's a way bigger market. Yeah, they really are.

I understand kind of what they are. Like, you know, the U.S. raises money through debt. But outside of that, yeah. I don't understand the bond market at all. Explain it to us, please. Well, the U.S. you know, spends a lot more money than it takes in taxes. And so it has to finance a difference somehow. And it does that by issuing bonds.

And there's all different types of maturity. of the bonds, so you can do three months, you can do 10 years, you can do 30 years. And right now, the yields on the bonds are going up, which is concerning. So that means that everyone's like, hey, U.S. government, you have to make your debt a little bit more enticing for us to buy because we're like kind of scared of you. Like the inflationary pressures, the geopolitical risk, all the prices are a big part of this too. And so the bond market is saying, right, now that there is a level of instability in the U.S. government and therefore the financing demands of the U.S. government are going to be seen as a little bit concerning by people who are

trying to buy up this debt. They're like, I don't want it as much as I used to. They still want it, but they're demanding a little bit more. Is that concern, a literal concern about the U.S. being able to pay back that? It's not that. Like, there's always, I mean, the U.S. is still the U.S. Like, it's going to be able to pay it back. There's just uncertainty. They're like, you made me a little scared, so you have to pay more. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, and you also have the competition from the AI buildout. So all of the AI companies are issuing a ton of debt because they, too, are spending more than they're taking in. And so they have to go to the bond market to build out all their big data centers. And they, for investors, it's kind of like, well, the AI companies, that's really interesting. That looks cool. Why don't we give them money instead of the U.S. government? and so it's kind of this push and pull between the two. There's a lot of different factors going into why bonds are collapsing, basically.

I wouldn't say that. You wouldn't say that they're collapsing. I would say they're showing some signs of stress. Right. Some signs of stress. Well, there was a, I thought it was, and that's the thing, you have to, like, check everything. I'm sure you saw the viral tweet where they were talking about Goldman Sachs says there's no one who wants to buy bonds. If you Google, you know, just it had it as a quote.

If you Google that quote in Goldman Sachs, you can't find anything. I don't think there was actually a report. Yeah. They usually are making stuff up on there. Yeah. So they're just drumming up a bunch of... Rage. So they get engagement.

Yeah. Yeah. But social media. It's much more mellow than it seems to be. Well, I wouldn't say mellow. Yeah. I mean, it's tough to find the right word for what's going on. You know, Treasury's Secretary's got Besson.

Essentially, so this all kind of got... I mean, it's been happening for... a little bit, but it got really kicked off with Fed Chair Kevin Warsh when it wasn't really clear how he was going to handle the independence of the Federal Reserve. So before the Fed cut rate, or before the Fed hikes rates a couple of weeks ago, it seemed like Fed Chair Warsh was maybe going to cut rates because that's what President Trump wanted. And the bond market, it's not like the stock market. Like it takes stuff really seriously. So if there's a threat to, too. I like that. Look, this is in the stock market.

We do things seriously. No, the stock market is goofy. It's a joke. It really is. It's totally a goofball. Apparently, Canadians, goof is like a bad word in Canada. Do you all know that?

I do. That's very endearing. The Canadians, oh, gee, he said the G word. I read that the other day. Yeah, yes, goof is considered a serious fighting word or derogatory slang in certain Canadians. We deeply apologize to our Canadian. Not me. I don't apologize, you goofs. You're a bunch of goofs up there.

We had no idea. Yeah. I heard that they will punch you for it. Because I say that word a lot because goofy is like, you know, in the U.S., it's like, oh, that's a goofball. You know, it's... The Disney character. Yeah. Goopie. Yeah. Yeah. I do have to say, if the Canadians want to be taken seriously, they got to get on board with goof. Yeah. Goof is fine, you guys. Milk in a bag. Continue. What was I saying? Scott Besson. So Scott Besson. So Treasury, Fedger Warsh, so it wasn't really sure how he was going to handle the credibility of the Fed. And the bond market was like, dude, you have to kind of like, if you're not going to take this seriously, we're going to.

And we're going to mess things up for you, like how we did with Liz Trust, the former prime minister of the UK when Gilts had a big showdown with her. And she, you know, a head of lettuce lasted longer than she did. Do you remember this? Oh, yeah, that's right. Giltz being the bonds in the UK. Yeah. And so bonds can like take down prime ministers, right? And so it's a really big deal when they start to freak out like how they were and are. And so that was a situation that kind of kicked everything off. And then it's been increasingly unclear when the war in Iran is going to end the geopolitical uncertainty there, the inflationary pressures due to the war in Iran, the financing pressures due to the air buildout. And then the U.S. government is just spending an enormous amount of money, right? And so all of those things are accumulating in a bond market that, again, take, take stuff really seriously.

And it's like, you guys, you know, you have to not be messing around like this. Like that's what we're sort of seeing in yields in a very simplified format. Is they're saying like this can't go on the way that it is? And we're going to take your debt much more expensive. And when the debt becomes much more expensive, then the U.S. government has to pay higher interest payments on that debt. And then it sort of further exacerbates the spending problem. And so the way that we would ideally fix this is the war ending in Iran, right?

That was a whole lot of the problems. it would reopen. Okay, so we can get ourselves out of this pretty easily. Yeah. You sound like elegant, simple solutions. Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's what I came here for today is to propose simple and beautiful things. But that does end up, like when you talk about how serious it is, when this yield goes up, it becomes a weird policy driver where aren't there all these stories where even in the past, like as it ticked up, Donald Trump all the sudden was more amenable to certain things of, maybe he was like, oh, I'll never do that.

And then all of a sudden the yield ticks up and he's like, You know, maybe the Iranians have some points. Yeah, I mean, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent came out and he was like, I'm the house now, to the bond market. Yeah, can you explain that quote? What did he mean by that? I'm the house now. He just sort of meant that he was in charge and the bond market wasn't in charge.

So James Carville, who is a legendary investor, he said that if he ever came back after he died, he'd want to reincarnated as the bond market because you can intimidate everybody. So Besson's going up against this like, you know, the bond market, which is... It's multi-trillion dollar. It's not something you want to mess with, nor is it something that you want to say that you're the boss of. Yeah. Because they're going to be like, okay, sure. Pardon the language, but you could end up looking like a goof.

Yeah. That's good. That's pretty good. 10 out of 10. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. But yeah, so that's what's going.

And for those who are unaware, what can be confusing about bonds is that they are inversely correlated. So when bonds drop, the yields go up. When the bond prices drop. Hey, when the bond gets cheaper, it's got to be, hey, give us more of an entire, give us more of a, make it sweeter for me. Yeah. If you will. Like, yeah, your bonds are going down in value. Nobody wants them.

So you got to give me a little bit of a higher interest rate. What blows my mind is how the whole thing functions. So like trillions of dollars out there. And especially, so like a 10-year bond. or yeah, 10 year or 30 year, it pays whatever the percentage is per year, right? I should know that I had to take it. I had to learn this from my series 57 and I just don't remember any of it. So like it currently being 5.3%.

I mean, like if you're an investor, it's a good estimate. Well, which is funny because... capturing 5%. All over finance Twitter, they're like doing the vague posting thing because someone's like, why don't I just buy a million dollars worth of 10 years? year bonds and collect $53,000 a year for 10 years. And people are quote tweeting it and being like, is anybody going to tell them? Like, what's the, what's so bad about that?

Because you, because you're not outpacing inflation. Is that the big? I mean, I don't know. I don't know either. Like, I think part of what's going on is you can get a much higher return in the stock market right now. Right. That's what they're saying.

Just park it in. That's still a roll of the dice. Inflation eats away at some of that, too, unless you get treasury or tips, treasury inflation. Yeah. Tips protected something. Oh my gosh. Tips are,

this is so embarrassing. Treasury insured. No. Ah, God. They're like the... Treasury inflation protected securities. And they are the safest A plus, triple A. Yeah.

They're hedged against inflation. Yeah. So basically, yeah. Like, always like traditionally more of a hedge, though, in this like safe place. Yeah. Yeah.

But right now they are not. Well, like right now, I mean, in a way. I mean, it's hurting. existing investors because it's just not a good situation but if you're somebody who's wanting to capture 5% which you kind of cross a little curve right now

Is that because it makes it harder to offload if you're a bond holder and you bought it 4% or whatever and now everyone can go get at 5.3% or whatever it is you now can't offload it because everyone's like well why would I bother? So you have to lower the prices of that and you're just basically holding an asset that just keeps depreciating as the yield goes out And the yield curve inversion has, it's flattened currently, right?

Yeah, it's flattened quite a bit. And can you explain to our audience why that is substantial and why that is conventionally kind of a warning signal? So can I try out my explanation for the yield curve? Of course, please. So you can kind of think of the yield curve like dating. Like dating, yeah. So you can buy a three-month bond and that's kind of like a coffee date, right?

So you're like, you don't need a lot of commitment. you're like, it's fine, whatever. It's pretty low stake. So you don't need a lot of return. So normally you would accept a lower yield. It's just a coffee date. No worries. But if you're going to invest your money somewhere for 30 years or you're going to get married, right?

You're going to have this long-term relationship. You're going to want a higher return. You're going to want a higher level of commitment. I want a higher allowance from my wife. Yeah. Yeah. What? A higher allowance from my wife.

Yeah. Yeah. And so that. Thank you, Wendy. So that is how you can think of. the yield curve. It is sort of a reflection of commitment and a reflection of how much people want in exchange, usually. But when the yield curve inverts, that means it's like a thing season. So people, they'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to like really go all in on these coffee

dates. I need a high return so I can like bring somebody home for the holidays and it's going to be awesome. And they're much more less likely to want sort of the 30 year commitment. So they're going to have a higher price on the coffee date, and that's the yield curve inversion. It's the shorter term securities have higher yields than the longer term securities. Normally, a yield curve slopes up, and right now it's not necessarily inverted, I don't think, but it's flat in it across the... And to continue on your dating... Yeah. Is this a good metaphor? It's a great metaphor, yeah. It indicates that people have less, generally speaking, less trust in the the long-term potential of the government.

And similarly, less trust in the long-term potential of these coffee dates. Yeah, that's right. Hey, I'd rather just get a quick wham-bam-bam coffee date rather than... It's so hard not to say thank you, man. I can say wham-bam, thank you, ma'am, but that's... Yeah, so like right now investors are doing a lot of coffee dates with the United States rather than wanting to get married. Come on, no, no, no, they don't want to marry because the U.S. is not a stable partner.

The U.S. has some work to do on itself. Babe, babe. We're going to change. Boy, hey, the U.S. government is a very avoidant attachment style right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's spending everything on credit cards, not saving, not thinking about a long-term future. So why would you get married to the U.S. government? I know I showed up hung over to brunch with your parents, but in my defense, I forgot they were coming to town. Yeah, exactly.

That's kind of how the U.S. government's acting right now. Hungover at a parental brunch. That's so embarrassing. I forgot they were coming to town. And then there were. are other people at the brunch, tech companies who are showing up in a turtleneck looking so good. This is the next part. Yes. And a Japanese guy. Yeah. And I'm going, don't trust him, babe. Can we talk about what were you going to say? Yeah, I mean, so then you also, yeah, you have these

AI guys who are like, well, I'll really show you a good rate of return, like invest with me and my data centers. And they're going to give you a ton of money. You know, bring me home to your parents. It's going to be so great. And so people are looking at that relationship and like, wow, that looks so much better than the unstable partner of the United States. Yes. Yes. The drunkard. The drunkard of the United States. Hey, everybody. We got to take a quick break to talk a little bit about your personal finances. How appropriate, right? I don't know about you, but when I was a much younger man, my finances were all over the place. I had no idea what I was spending, where my money was going,

to who, for what my debit card was a mess. I didn't even have credit cards. It was just, it was a mess. But now my story is much, much different, thanks to Monarch. Because with Monarch's handy-dandy features, I've got savings goals.

I can keep in mind. I can hit milestones. I'm just overall way, way, way more organized like an adult should be with their money. This thing's got some pretty sweet features on it. too. Okay? Here's the thing. Like, do you remember back in the day you used to pay with cash? And you knew exactly, you could feel, you could feel, what was going in and out now? How do you track anything? Okay. Well, here's where Monarch comes in. Okay. Most apps only tell you what

you've already spent. Monarch helps set goals, map out big purchases, and see if you're actually on track before it's too late to adjust. It'll help you also spot things you wouldn't think to look for with AI Insight. AI Insights. Has your spending gone up? Or is it just inflation. It's going to let you know all that stuff. Oh, yeah, man. It's like having a, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. You can afford that. You can't afford that. I challenge you to fit your regular old financial advisor into your pocket, right? It ain't going to work. So, hey, write your own money story with Monarch. Use code Bayes at Monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch core half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off. Your first year at

Monarch.com with code Bayes. But so it's not just the equities market that is stiff competition for treasuries and bonds. Treasuries and bonds are the same thing, right? Yeah, there's. Thank you. I was just seeing if you knew. Because I definitely knew that. The Bank of Japan.

Bonds are a type of treasury. Yeah. Bill's notes also, yeah. Square rectangle situation. The Bank of Japan is now ratcheting up its own competition as the largest holder of United States Treasuries. They're now raising their rules. rates a little bit. And it's, it is correct me if I'm wrong, is that now another

form of competition? Yeah. So they're the biggest foreign holder. And so they are our most devoted long distance partner, but they have had their own inflationary problems too. So they've had to raise rates over there and worse battle inflation. And so there's a lot of currency risk in having a long term partnership and a long distance partnership rather. And so Japan is like, well, you know, things are looking pretty good at home. Like, why would I engage in this long distance relationship? Everything's looking pretty good over here. I can get just as much. So that is certainly a part of it. But they're still participating in the debt markets. But yeah, I mean, across the board, you know, foreign holders have backed away from buying U.S. debt,

but they're buying up a lot of U.S. stocks. Like Brad Setser was quoted in the F.T. and he's like, it just seems like the whole world is really high on U.S. equity. So people aren't as interested in bonds because of these uncertainty dynamics that we've been talking about, but they low up the stocks. Yeah. And that's what impact this, like, currently has on just an everyday person who's not a bond trailer. Yeah, I mean, it's painful.

So if you're not, like, looking for a 5% return for however long you were saying the Twitter guys were talking about, you know, your credit card rates go up, your auto loan rates go up. Mortgage rates are now well above 7%. So everything in the economy, like the most important one to understand is the 10 year treasury, everything in the economy kind of prices off of the 10 year. So when the 10 year goes up, all of these loans that consumers have end up getting more expensive to finance as well. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that sucks. So the 10, why, why specifically the 10 year? That's just what most things get marked off of. It's just, okay. And it's like they've got to be just above whatever the 10 years currently yielding?

Yeah, it's a situation. I see. As long as you don't need a car, a home. Credit card. Or put things on a credit card, you're kind of doing okay. Yeah, I mean, it's sort of interesting because it's like a boomers are like older folks are really sort of resistant to the dynamics of the economy because they usually own their cars.

They usually own their homes. They don't spend usually as much as younger folks do on credit cards or just in general. And so that's been something that's a bit of a puzzle. So part of the reason that treasury yields are so high, and I think we talked about it earlier, the Fed raised rates. So Kevin Worst did prove that he was going to take Fed credit really seriously, that the Federal Reserve was going to have some elements of independence,

and he chose to hike rates, and that also, you know, treasury yields rose because of that. Because the Fed funds rate sets the rate for everything else. It's funny. I don't know how you put it, that the boomers are resistant to the economy or something. That seemed totally over all right? No, no. For me, I think that's kind of been my issue with this and why I feel like I get stuff wrong

is because like the oil thing especially, it feels like everyone's resistant to the economy sometimes. I just, I find myself going, I don't know how this math works now. I don't know how it can continue to work. Just like sheer back of the napkin math. There's so many people in Los Angeles right now who just, their job is ride share or gig economy type stuff. And I'm just like, at $6.50 a gallon, I'm just like, how is the city not coming to a standstill? You know, with jet fuel skyrocketing, I'm like, how are you not seeing more of an impact on this?

And I've said it like multiple times over the last couple weeks on our show. I'm just surprised at how resilient the economy is to all these things. I mean, even, you know, seven and a half percent mortgages, for who does that make sense? You know, and you still see, you know, you'll see like Zillow listings. Like people are, it's like they're living on a different planet. I don't understand. And these aren't like, these aren't like mansions or something. these are, you know, small, single-family homes.

And I guess I'm just curious if you have any insight as to why we're not seeing more of an impact on some of these things. You know, the, like, the stock market being a goof or whatever, like, it is, it's very strange to me, I would lose all my money if I was a traitor because I would go, just looking at the landscape, I'm like, yeah, everything should be just tanking. There's, where is an optimistic outlook coming from for people? What? Where do you find optimism? I'm not asking you where you find optimism.

I'm like where is the market finding optimism? Where is the stock market? Well, it's not the economy. Sure. But like all of these economic like gas prices, the geopolitical. So we are seeing people start to get stretched. You know, it's hard. It sucks.

Inflation has been a problem for a really big time and the war made it all worse. Brown has a climate solutions tracker where they track how much more Americans have paid. You can look it up on your TV even. It's Brown Climate Solutions Tracker and they have a live tracker of how much more Americans have paid for gasoline since the war began. Oh good. And the last I looked, it was 124. So it's already 127 and you can see both gasoline and diesel. So since the war began, people are paying so much more just in terms of getting anywhere. Can they stop that number from going up? Because it's still going up. They don't have to stop to horror. People. What's really important, and I'm sure you all talked about this,

is the diesel conversation you had is consumers are getting doubly squeezed. And so I was on a call with a big retailer. I was in Las Vegas on Monday at a conference, and I had a call with one of the major retailers who was then part of a panel, a moderator on consumer sentiment. But one thing that he was talking about was that when diesel prices go up and gas prices go up, diesel gets pushed off to the consumer rate. So it costs more to get trucks going anywhere, ships going anywhere, trains going anywhere. And so it costs a whole lot more to get goods into the store, costs a whole lot more to get to the store in your car. And so there's a double squeeze with the diesel and the gas prices. But it takes a little time for it to work through the system, right?

For those prices to go up just from diesel, you know, it takes like a few weeks. time, yeah. We have these elevated prices for months. Yeah. But yeah, so in terms of like how people are getting by, I mean, Bloomberg had an article talking about how a lot of people are tapping into home equity. So they're leaning into home equity to get a little bit of money. You know, people are really leaning on credit cards. Yeah. And so it's debt. That's what a lot of people are financing things on. And that's really when it gets, you know, scary. Because then, Yeah, so maybe we just aren't seeing it yet, and there's a bit of a ticking time bomb with, you know, the way people are managing some of these. Well, I don't know what else they can do.

Right. You know, like they have to buy food and I, and little treats. As you've pointed out, where it's like, it's almost this weird, it's just the opposite of what you would expect, where people are, yeah, stretched thin. But then they're kind of, in my mind, their thought is, well, who cares? What's another, you know, 25 bucks to buy this thing or treat myself to an Arawan Lubu Boo Boo Milkshake smoothie, whatever the heck those people sell now? Yeah. And just to piggyback off of what he said and just, sorry, real fast to go back to the bonds is one of the things that I've seen on Twitter to round out this whole part of the conversation, one of the things I keep seeing on finance Twitter is people saying why does. the stock market continue to ignore this emergency in the bond market. But then when you kind of

zoom out and you look at what the 10 year was in the 70s, it was like tripled this, right? Wasn't it like 12 to 15% back then? So it's not like we've never been. Obviously, it's a way different condition. The national debt was way, way, way, way, way small. Yeah. And that was painful. The 1970s were no kickwalk. Oh, yeah. Or that we're in the 1980s. Like if you talk to anybody who bought a house back then, they'll tell you, interest rates are high. Yeah.

And so, but in this cycle, and honestly, during most, I mean, I think anybody under the age of 45, this, the rate at which funnials are rising, we've really never seen anything like it. Like, they're just, they're going crazy. And they're moving up so quickly, and that's the worry. And then in terms of the stock market, ignoring it, you know, Kai Ristel, who runs, marketplace, always say the stock market is not the economy. And right now the stock market is so concentrated in these AI companies who feel like they can ignore diesel and ignore interest rates

because they have so much money and they're just building these huge data centers. Everybody's giving them so much money, right? So that is driving the stock market forward. But like, I think it's 75% of the S&P 500 is below a 50-day moving average. So a lot of the stocks, more rate sensitive companies, are struggling. And the Nvidia is like 8% of the overall stock market. So you think about that, you know, a lot of our economy is

just Nvidia. Not our economy, rather, our stock market. I'm so sorry. On the gas thing, do you feel like gas is the ultimate measure of, like, other than unemployment and inflation and bond yields,

do you think gas prices are the ultimate kind of measure of vibes out there? Yeah, I mean, I think that people really react to it. You really see people get upset when gas prices go up. I think it's because they're on every street corner and you really can see them when you drive anywhere. It's very visible in a way that a lot of prices aren't. So I think when gas prices go up, we do tend to see people bring it up on prompted, on sentiment surveys.

You do see that it's a little bit of shift in politics. In California, it's like a movie. You drive around and you're like, it seems like you're watching a movie set in the near future where they're like, this will get it. This will be a laugh gag if we put this price on the. It's really expensive. And he's just like, 750? Yeah. And it's tough to reconcile what the Trump administration says with reality because politics aside, whatever you want to, you know, I'm sure that there are some people who like him still.

God knows why. But it's like every day there's just such a never-ending barrage of misinformation saying that Iran wants to make a deal. And then Iran coming out and saying no. It's just, it's so confusing. I don't know. It's almost like it's working to his advantage. Yeah, it's flood his own stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the same old. He's been doing it for a decade. Also, he's doing the Trump trade. Yeah. What do you mean? is trading stocks Oh yeah yeah yeah

He's moving the market with his Truths Yeah I mean I don't know He's charging for it Yeah and he's down that big crypto dinner People that own the Trump coin Oh my God It's it's just

It's a really wild time to live through Where yeah this kind of just out in the open Corruption I get a sense that It's finally He's finally kind of Reached his limit It's really low

Yeah Like once it hits below 3 I mean, and it goes back to the gas. I've seen a couple just anecdotes of like Trump, three-time Trump voters saying like, I can't do this anymore, you know? Don't get into a country accent. Sorry.

It's not a Kentucky I'm doing. Also, when push comes to shove, that person's voting for Trump a fourth time. That's the thing. I'm not joking. I mean, there was that guy at that crypto, dinner, he bought into a massive amount into

Trump coin. And he's getting interviewed and they say probably hundreds of thousands of dollars and he's lost basically all of it. And they ask him like, so what are you going to do in the next election? He's like, I'd vote for him again. He's a cult figure. Yeah.

I mean, the psychology of it is it's... This is remarkable. It's remarkable. Yeah. And, you know, if you read the history, this was always going to happen to the United States. It was something that the founding father is really warned against

is having some sort of figure in politics like this. But we have it and, you know, people are really swooned by him. And I think that, you know, it will require the Democrats to come up with a better answer than what they've had in the past. I mean, it's not a uniquely American problem. No, it's far rights on the rise everywhere. The Brazil results are alarming. It's happening everywhere.

Should we talk about AI now? Yeah, and I think this kind of lends itself into some of the stuff you talk about with like your... I saw your Wall Street Journal article about your generation and financial nihilism and stuff like that. Oh, yeah, that was from a while ago. Yeah. Okay, sorry to go so deep cut on... What was that May? It was a long time ago, yeah.

That's okay. No, sorry. Thank you for reading. Sorry about him. He's a real goof. But yeah, I think there's this like, people don't believe in that much anymore. And I don't think they have a reason to. And you're seeing it in the way people invest specifically.

And maybe you can explain that a little bit. Like people's habits have completely changed with this new landscape. Well, I mean, I think like, you know, there was a poll asking how many people, younger folks, believe that production markets are a good investment. I think Bloomberg ran the poll. It's like a lot. A lot of them think that prediction markets are a good part of their portfolio. They see it as an investment.

And so when you look at the data there, you know, for every one profitable user on Calci, there's 2.9 unprofitable ones. 0.1% of accounts on polymarket make about 70% of the profits. But younger folks are like, okay, this is a good diversification tool. And so we've essentially convinced people that gambling and investing are the same thing. So prediction markets are... Some elements of prediction markets have a good use case, but they are ultimately sports betting.

And when it came out, I remember everyone was focused on... The Gen Z number was obviously the highest one of people who were doing it, but millennials... Yeah, yeah, everybody's in there. I mean, the advertising is constant. Yeah. You know, they have a time. Even when I was in New York this week, too, I had a four-city week.

And I was walking down in Soho, and there was a Kalshi coffee truck. And they were giving out free coffee. And so, you know, they just have a really good. They have a lot of marketing. I mean, that's the half of it. Like, pretty much, yeah. If there's, uh, if there's been like a massive athlete from the last 15 years or more, it seems like they've probably been in a Calci, polymarket draft kings commercial.

Yeah. Bandool. It's, I mean, even longer. You know, I don't know if you know who Pete Sampras is. He was, uh, he was an incredible tennis player back when I was a kid. and he basically just disappeared. I was always like, he did it right. You know, he made, I think he won like 16 grand slams.

He married the woman, the actress who played Veronica Vaughn from Billy Madison, who was like... Veronica Vaugh. Yeah. And he just seems to like live a very nice life. Somehow they got him to like come out, it was either CalShire or Polymarket and do a massive ad. And it's like... Ten million dollars. God, the money must be so good.

You got Pete Sampers off the... Coach. Yeah, but when you think about where the money's coming from, it's coming from all these people that are losing it. And so that's the worry with how, you know, not, like a lot of people will be like, talk about young people. And I, but I think this is a problem with everyone. Like, you know, a lot of people are convinced by prediction markets and by, you know,

crypto for a while, even though that's fallen out of vogue. Thank God. NFTs and all that stuff. Yeah. I felt insane. That seems better because at least it was, uh, at least you had a picture to go with it, a picture of a monkey. Well, no, no, not NFTs.

Well, sure, that falls into it. But I feel like crypto, the whole crypto world just felt very weird to people. And so it was like a very, it was a like small group. Yeah. And it was this like weird group that everyone could be like, what are they doing over there? They're like buying pictures and doing weird stuff. The betting stuff has just, it's hit everyone. It's like.

Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. I'm shocked every time I encounter someone in my life. I'm like, you have one of these accounts you do this stuff? Yeah, same. Yeah. No, a lot of people do it. Yeah.

I don't get it. Like, I don't, I'm not saying that people shouldn't. That's not my place. But I think that they should look at the data and know what they're up against. Yeah. And know that the. Although, you know what my hot take about this is and you guys can tell me I'm wrong. It's fine.

But that I would rather people do that than like play the stock market. If someone's like, I have an itch to do. whatever, you trade fine. Whatever. But this is not you. Like blindly gambling on options? Like anything. The guy who like doesn't know that much and was like, yeah, I fancy myself a bit of a

wolf of Wall Street and gets like opens an account and just starts like. Yeah. Or anyone who's like opening a Robin Hood account during the pandemic and is like, let's see what I can do. Because I'm like, you have a way better chance of knowing if like the buccaneers are going to beat the Broncos on any given day than you do like betting if IBM is going to go up. know what I mean? What? I think I understand what he's saying.

I don't mean to be mean, but like you have a better chance of, like the average person knows more about the buccaneers than IBM? Yes. Like the average person, I think if you, like, if you could, if you could pick a hundred times whether or not like the Broncos are going to win this weekend or what IBM stock is going to do, the average person would, even if they know nothing about football, would have an easier time with like getting into. sports or whatever Polymarket is offering like, you know, whether or not the Dems will sweep

midterms. Or Jesus will come back next year. Yeah. It was a 5% chance last time I saw. Yeah, that's when I get into like, okay, keep everyone off this. But do you think that checks out or is that? I agree with you. Yeah.

Sure. It's a lot harder to read a chart than it is to be asked a simple question. Do you think that the Broncos will win? Which I guess now that I'm. Also scoot, scoot in. Hey, gang, we got to take another quick break to talk to the fellas out there. Hello, boys. You know, hey, did you find yourself looking at old photos of yourself wondering what's

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I just feel like I know more people in my life who have gotten wiped out in the stock market. Then I do who have gotten wiped out on, I have no idea. Like, if you're true, yeah. Like, I remember specific conversations with friends at parties or something where they're like, yeah, I'm going to quit my job. I've been doing the stock thing for a while and I'm like, ready to. And it's like three months later, they're like, I'm back at the job. I just, and I don't want to make fun.

I, like, it's, you know, it's terrible. I've gotten burned, yeah. I don't have any. I don't have any friends who are like, and now I don't want to, because now it sounds like I'm defending like Polymarket, I'm not. No, you're just adding nuance to the podcast.

Yeah. Do you, I don't think anyone should be on these platforms for the record. I think they should shut them all down. Do you think that these, the rise of these is, is, a symptom of a greater financial nihilism?

Or is it simply just one of the oldest human vices now being opened up for everyone to participate in? Or maybe a mixture of both. I think it's a mix. Yeah. I mean, I think you got a phone in your pocket that's unlimited gambling. And now, you know, you have the Robin Hood AI agents that'll trade for you. And you, the customer, responsible for what your AI agent does, not Robinhood.

Yeah. And so you do have, like, endless access to anything that you could ever possibly want to trade on. And there is this idea that maybe, I mean, there are people who are running prediction market trading firms. And they're paying a ton of money for data. And they're making these trades based on the proprietary data that they get. It's a little tricky if it's insider trading or not. But, you know, some people are finding that to be profitable. I think that there is an element of financial nationalism to it

because people do see this as complementary to investing. I do think people, there is a paper that I talk about a lot called Giving Up, and it was written in 2025. And it was talking about perceived housing affordability relative. to how people act. So if your perceived housing affordability goes down, like if you're like, I'm never going to be able to buy a house, you're much more likely to not work as hard at work. You're much more likely to just buy things that maybe you wouldn't have bought otherwise. And you're much more likely to take on excessive risk. And so that all makes sense.

It's all very rational. But I do think the financial knowledge, you know, some people will respond, they'll email me and stuff and they'll be like, oh, people have always gambled. And it is true. Like people have always gambled, but I think that we see the numbers go up and we see some element of desperation go up because people feel like they're not able to get their foot on the first round of economic ladder. They feel like maybe they're not able to get an entry-level job or maybe they got fired at 35 and they don't know what to do next or they got laid off at 50 and they don't know where to turn. And so I think people see investing as a way to kind of get ahead. And it's the thing that we tell people too and it's the way that the economy is designed. Like labor income is taking a smaller and smaller share of the overall economy as compared to asset ownership. And so in that sort of economy, it does make sense that people would look at any type of investing and be like, this is the only way that I can get ahead because the data is increasingly, you know, moving in that direction.

You're essentially saying, oh, yeah, you're essentially describing the K-shaped economy where the lower part of the K is just labor income being, labor income being just a normal job. Yeah. Only gets you maybe you're out. Larry Fink's talking about it from Black Rock. He's like, yeah, labor's not keeping up. Like, if Larry, he's talking about it. Yeah. He's the king of capitalism. He really is. And so he's like, okay, this is not looking good.

Yeah. And so that is, I think, a really, really big issue is when there's this imbalance between asset ownership, aka stocks. You know, stocks and buying homes. People look at that as the way to get ahead, and it is the way to get ahead. labor income isn't keeping up in the way that it used to. Wage gains are increasingly being eaten away by inflation. They're not keeping up with inflation right now.

And so I think, yeah, there is an element of financial nationalism to what we see when prediction markets, but it makes total sense to me when people do it. Yeah, and it's not so much the case-shaped economy. I think it's how people see themselves in the world, right? Yeah, right. If you see all of your doors closing to you and every AI CEO is going on CNBC and being like, no, I'm not sure. You have to accept bad things happening.

I mean, sure. That's a terrifying thing. It's so scary. And that's only the tip of the iceberg, right? Also, if we screw it up, you guys are probably going to suffer more than we will. But not only, but that's if we screw it up. They're like, if we succeed, you know, Dario Amadeh goes out there and it's like, if we succeed, entry-level jobs are going away. And you're looking around and you're going, okay, well, there's fewer and fewer opportunities available to me. like, why would I not just open the casino app in my phone and try to make it big? Yeah. But real fast, what do you, the, the barrier to owning a home has become so high and so insurmountable that it lends itself to this financial nihilism.

Do you think that that could eventually sort of culturally evolve and kind of become less relevant, owning a home? Because the more I look at it, the more I'm, or the less I'm in. enticed to do it myself as someone in his late 30s. I'm like, number one, I don't want to pay that much for an interest rate. Number two, property taxes are a very, very big thing that I didn't even know about until I looked into it. Well, only for some. What do you mean only for some? I don't even know about this. Oh, yeah. Is this in California? Oh, yeah. Is it going to save me? Do I need to. It's so. Oh, and they're pissed about it because they're house.

are paid off, but they're still paying property tax. No, no, no, no. No, no. Their homes are worth an enormous amount, but they're locked into a very, very low property tax payment. So this is kind of killing California, Prop 13. So like there are so many homes that are worth so much money. Yeah.

And they're paying like a thousand dollars a year. Yeah. Bumer luxury, call me, the rest screen calls it that. So that's Prop 13. I see. Yeah. So younger people are getting into the market now, are paying huge amounts.

and property taxes, but people have owned their home forever. Yeah. Their property isn't changed. And in a lot of states, when your home price increases, your property taxes increase because your home's worth more and you're going to pay more taxes on that. But Prop 13 makes it so it's not the case in California. Interesting. Yeah.

But so do you think that that's going to eventually go away or at least become significantly less a part of the so-called American dream owning a home as it becomes less and less accessible? Well, people just have no choice though. I mean... Yeah, I know. But I mean, what do you think? One in five Americans are going to be over the age of 65 by 2030.

Okay. In 1920, it was one in 20. So we have an aging population. Right. And eventually, the boomers and everyone, they're going to have to pass the homes on. And so there is a chance that we get a structural oversupply because who are you going to sell all these homes to? Right. When people are ready to sell them.

So I think that's something that's a little underappreciated in the housing market discussion because it's a little far out. But there is a world where we just get a ton of homes that get bid down to a really low price because there's just so many all of the sudden as boomers age. But I mean, I think right now renting versus owning is always a big conversation as to what to do. Like stock market wealth has now surpassed owning a home. Like more Americans have their wealth in the stock market versus owning a home. It used to be everyone's wealth was all tied up in their house. And so I think people are not seeing the home is like the only thing that should be an asset for them. They're seeing the stock market.

And then for people who are renters, they're seeing the stock market as the way that they can get some ownership rather than having to own a house, which has all sorts of headaches that come along with it. Insurance. Yeah, insurance. Yeah, insurance. And here in L.A., potentially fires, earthquakes. Yeah. repairs. These are all things that I'm like, do I really want to?

Yeah, yeah, I think you did. It's still, it's still there. It's still looming overhead. It is still, I mean, for me, as a, as an middle of the road, millennial, I don't know where I fall in the continuum of, of. I think generation. I think it's still. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm spiritually. I am what I am. I'm millennial. You're Gen X spiritually. Okay, cool. Thank you. Yeah, you're right. I am a little bit.

But, yeah, I'm. lesson, I still do see it as a measure of success. Oh, sure. I mean, that's what you're taught from like the day you're born. Oh, yeah. But to be clear, it is a measure of success. It's, you know, it comes with a lot of things, but it also locks in a, even with taxes and whatever, it locks in a rate. Yeah. If you're dealing with the rental market, it is, it's unbelievable. And I don't know how we're all going to keep up with it. Go look at rentals in L.A. and, and, and it's only going to to get worse? Yeah, it sucks. And then you also own an asset at the end of this whole thing that you can sell and fund your retirement. And like so much of our economy is designed, sorry to enter.

No, no, that's fine. But so much of our economy is designed around homeowners too. Like, you know, people own a home to write their mortgages off on their taxes. It's much more forgetting. And so I think that has to change a little bit, too, is that we certainly reward homeowners over renters and that exacerbates these problems of affordability. Yeah, because I mean, that's my thing is I feel like as the, uh, sentiment around it changes, this, the sentiment online I see a lot of is that like homeownership is a scam. And yes, I know it's gotten very expensive. And maybe the, the math doesn't make much sense for people anymore.

But I would hate for the, I would hate for the sentiment to like go all the way around where everyone's like, owning home. We don't even, yeah, owning a home is for suckers. We don't even want homeownership anymore. It's like that's not, I don't feel like we should go down that path. Yeah, yeah. Well, I wanted to go back to AI a little bit because that's such a big darn topic and it's just every day. It just feels like every day, it's never ending.

It's more, it's just a mix of doom. It's a mix of everybody's getting, it feels like crypto 2.0 where everybody's getting fabulously wealthy, except for me. me, right? And like people are, it just feels like we're constantly on the cusp of something. And we can't quite articulate it. There's this sense of, is it just us all being terminally online? Is it that, because I increasingly feel like, man, online is not reality. It is not how it is out on the streets. We are on the bleeding edge of people talking about this stuff and it does not accurately reflect. For me, crypto felt like there was like one out of a hundred guys getting rich and the rest were getting wiped out and like writing weird Reddit postread.

They'd be like, what can I do? I lost it all. I put all my college, my kids college fund on. But coin. Sput coin or whatever. Spoot? I mean, that's literally the kind of stuff that I'm trading. Fart coin.

With AI, it seems like the only people are getting rich is a handful of people in San Francisco and they buy more and more. buy more and more power in our government, and we have to listen to the weird things they say on the news. Yeah, I guess ultimately there's a question coming out of this. I asked our audience if they had any questions for you. And someone named Kubbop from our Discord asks where you land on the real value of AI versus the marketing and hype. We know a bunch of the marketing is overblown, but we know obviously they're not completely useless AI and AI companies. So I'm just, I guess that's ultimately what their question is, is where do you, where do you fall on that? You better be careful. You could have, you might tick off a bunch of people.

But just because some people are so violently militantly anti-artificial intelligence of all forms. We don't know if it's going to work. I mean, that's the thing. Like we, the demand isn't necessarily there for the amount of build out. Like, these guys are like, we want so many data centers. And number one, yeah, there's not really enough power. So they're building a bunch of really expensive sheds because many of the data centers aren't even able to be plugged in. So I think that's like one problem with the, you know, is it overblown or is it useless is like the actual data centers we don't, which is what powers the AI, the chatbots.

That that's like one really big problem that we should probably get to the bottom of. And we also don't know, you know, how. people are going to use it and what they're going to use it for. Right now, the AI assistants are like, Silicon Valley is so excited about, like one company, Instinct raised a billion dollars at a $10 billion valuation with, I think, 100,000 users. Yeah. And the Instinct CEO, he went on Invest Like the Best, which is a good podcast.

And he was like, well, you're going to be able to make really cool restaurant reservations. And I think that we're at the point in the cycle where SF is like, everybody in the world has our problems, which is restaurant reservations. and emails and flights. And that's not the, like, for me, you know, I couldn't cancel my insurance and I could not, I was stuck in a chatbot hell or heck, like, yeah, for a very long time. And it was so frustrating because I was getting double charged and I could not bring myself from the chat bot.

And so Gavin Newsom actually in California made a rule where you, if you are stuck in a chatbot loop, you have to be connected with a human within 15 minutes. Or? Recently. Or I'm not sure with the constant. He laser beams you at this size, yeah. But I think, like, I just think that, like, when you think about what the average American really needs, which is not making restaurant reservations, it's help with managing insurance and managing

bills, that's not how the companies are pitching themselves. And then I think also, in terms of the chatbot usage, they hallucinate all. the time. And Gartner actually has estimated that by, I believe, 2030, we're going to have to rehire 30% of the people that got laid off in the assumption that AI could do their job. And so I think that we're making all of these really big promises that AI is going to be able to do all of these things and it's going to take over and our assistance, like my instinct is going to talk to your instinct and it's going to make us a restaurant reservation. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. You can put instinct on group chats and I was like, I will, I'll cut off lifelong friends if they put an

instinct into the group chat. So when the internet first started, it was a way for researchers to essentially talk to each other, right? And then it all of a sudden people were like, okay, well, we can email. And then, wow, like, maybe everybody will buy everything from the internet. Like, it's going to be the perfect land of e-commerce. And that's how the dot-com boom kind of really took off is like, everyone's like, people are going to buy everything from the internet. It's going to be amazing. And so they built out all this fiber, right? They built all this fiber that we still used today, but it didn't work. And so we had the dot-com busts. And then companies like Google and Amazon were able to come along. The fiber was so cheap and they were able to build out their

behemists. And part of the problem with the AI build-out is that it's one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive, build-out in history. Orders of magnitude higher than the fiber build-out. It's crazy. And also, but it's not as useful. The underlying infrastructure is not as useful. GPUs degrade within like two to five years. And data centers, like the power situation is really complicated there. And so the underlying infrastructure of the ad buildout is not as useful as even railroads or canals, right? Like not nearly as useful as those bubbles. So anyway, that's like kind of a rant of mine. Well, and as you, you, I forgot, I think you. It sounds like to some of you're maybe not super convinced so far that we're going to see the-

Listen, I look at data. And, okay, so I look at data, and that's how I make all of my decisions, is by looking at the data. And I think if you look at the data of the AI buildout, a lot of stuff isn't lining up. Like, the companies are borrowing an enormous amount of money. It's not clear where the demand it's going to come from. The underlying infrastructure degrades really quickly. And all of those things are confusing, especially relative to we don't know if people are going to want or be able to buy the underlying product. Like if you displaced an entire workforce, who's going to buy your chatbot?

You know, and so I think we have like all of these unanswered questions, but right now the stock market's up and it feels cool. And wow, our chatbot is talking to your chatbot. And everyone's sort of ignoring these questions that we should have answers to because that is human psychology during a bubble. We have seen this time and time again and we will be no different during the next bubble because there will be another one after this one. You know, I don't know if this is a bubble or not, but it feels bubbly. Robots are probably going to be the next bubble. And I want, I do wonder if we will just leapfrog from this. to that. Because yeah, the thing that now everybody seems to, the consensus seems to be that what will at least start to deflate if not pop this bubble will be a slowing in AI CAPX. Yeah. And who's going to do it first? Yeah. But a couple things.

There's one bare thesis that I've seen online regarding AI is basically that normal people, 99% of us, like you said, don't have the same problems that Silicon Valley has. where it's just, oh, who's going to, 99. I mean, just look at the way people use them. I feel like it's like replaced search engines for 90% of people. They have data on that. It's like therapy, horoscopes. Yeah.

They quick, normal people quickly run out of things for it to be useful for. Everyone I know in my life who uses LLMs basically use it the way they used to use Google. Same. And not even for everything. Like still, if they were going to, they'd probably still go to Google flights if they wanted to book a flight. But there was also something I think you just re-shared on your substack. I forgot who it was.

Jared Bernstein. Was it him? Oh, yeah. Who said Amazon Google at all all have to essentially create another Amazon Google just to make up for what they're spending. Their spending commitment. So Jared Brinstein, he's excellent, former chair of Biden's counsel, economic advisors, does a lot of really good research. He actually wrote of paper on the Bob session. And he wrote of paper recently on the buildout and like kind of what's it going to take for these

companies to be able to pay all this money back they're borrowing. And he was like, well, you know, part of the reason that the companies are able to borrow so much money is because Amazon, Google, meta, they all have underlying businesses, right? So they have ad businesses. And so lenders are like, okay, cool, like, you have all this money coming in. Like, we'll let you build data center. Sure, you'll be able to be able to be. Yeah, kind of. And he's like, that's fine. But like, in order for them to pay all this back, there's a big paper out of Brookings talking about this two called financing the AI build out in order for them to pay all this back and to make it all work, Amazon and Google will have to build a whole other Amazon and Google on top of the

existing Amazon and Google within the next 10 years. It took them 30 years the last time. And the existing Amazon and Google would have to be purely for AI. And so it's going to be just enormous. And people are kind of like, well, where's like how? And how are people going to, you know, it's expected to be 9% of GDP and like are people going to be able to want? And also So she can spend all their money on this. Totally. Well, just to go out when SpaceX does all its thing, and then we have mega drivers on the moon,

and then, you know, there's intergalactic economies, so it's all going to work out. Yeah, did you think about that? Did Jared Bernstein think about that? That Elon Musk is going to take us to Mars? Yeah. Hey, gang, we've got to take one last quick break to talk about cash app. You know, man, having a boring old debit card from your boring old bank

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Yeah, I didn't see that. There was this Ares... The God of War. Put out a piece that said that... Talking about insurance money and how that's a dangerous part of this whole thing is because insurance money, insurance companies typically park their money in safe investments. but there's a massive sea change where a lot of these insurance companies

are putting their capital where capital is flowing, aka into some of these AI buildouts. AKA that money is now at much, much, much, much higher risk and it just lends itself to the whole systemic risk that is just continuing to kind of grow.

Yeah. And it's just another thing that's very concerning. Yeah, I mean, it's the best, it's like the hottest thing in town. Yeah. Oh, well, sorry. that's one thing I missed. It's that these things are similar

to the mortgage-backed securities crisis that led us to the 2008-2009 financial crisis. These things that are inherently risky are being packaged together and then rated as AAA and like investment grade. So these insurance companies

are like hot digity, we'll take some. Yeah, well, not to like, I mean, I think that 2008's a little different because households were involved and we were packaging up household debt. Right. Now it is like big boy like big company debt. And so it's a little different in terms of risk there. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely the off balance sheet leases really freak me out. Special purpose vehicles and stuff like that. Yeah. And there's all of these like I think it's over a trillion dollars is signed for data centers that have not been built yet. So there's all of these really big commitments that again, we're not really sure if the demand is going to be there. They're borrowing out like through these separate vehicles too. They're doing. partnerships like meta has a big partnership with O'Ale, which is a private credit firm to build a

data center in Louisiana. And they had problems earlier this year. And they had problems. Oracle of Larry Ellison fame is having some issues too. And he's still going to somehow buy Warner Brothers. He can figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing. He can't. It's kind of crazy how that works. But yeah. So I think that there is pockets of risk that are starting to show. Like when you have balance sheets that are, or when you have leases that are not on your balance sheet, that's like, okay, well, why wouldn't buy? Yeah. Yeah.

We've got just a couple of random questions here toward the end. Okay. Wait, but can I say something? Please. That's why we had you here. On this podcast. We would hope you would say something. So we were talking a little bit about the American Dream, right? Yeah.

Do you know the guy who first wrote about the American Dream? Or do you know of him? Wait, I think I do know this, actually. Was it Walt Disney? No. Older than that? James. Yeah, I wouldn't have gotten that.

So he was the guy who originally came up with the concept of an American dream. And I think now we sort of, and I do this too, like we talk about the American dream through the lens of owning stuff. But that was never his vision. And he's not maybe like the final arbiter of truth on the American dream. But he was like, it should be every being being able to become the fullest version of themselves. Like that's the American dream, is if people can reach their goals. And I think, like, you know, I've thought a lot about, because I've spent a lot of time thinking about AI and treasuries and writing about it. And, you know, if you think about what an economy is for, it's ultimately for its people.

And I think that we have really lost that in the air buildout because now it's like, well, what if we could just replace the people? And then ultimately, it's like, well, why? And for what? Because if you think about the purpose of an economy, if you think about the purpose of an American dream, it is so people can see themselves up the economic ladder and see themselves. reach their potential, right? Like that is the American dream. It's not necessarily just owning a house. It's reaching the fullest version of yourself. And I think oftentimes when we talk about how people are feeling about the economy, we talk about it. And I do this too. We talk about it through the lens of owning things rather than do people feel like they can reach their potential. I was moderating a panel in Chicago at the Chicago Fed. And it was all about consumer sentiment.

So why people feel the way that they do about the economy? And people really write that off. they're like, oh, people are still spending. It doesn't matter how they're feeling. Like, it's just dumb. People are dumb. That's why they feel so bad. But, like, all the panelists were like, no, like, this really matters. Yeah.

It really matters if people feel like they have a future. If they feel like their spending is going to get them somewhere, if they feel like they're going to be able to reach their dreams, because, like, that is what it's all about, right? And so I think that's, like, the frustrating thing for me right now. And perhaps because I'm too, some people call me too Pollyanna. But, like, I don't know. I just think that we often miss what it's all about when we talk about AI and when we talk about the broader complexities of the economy.

Like what is an economy for is kind of where that conversation should start from. I think that totally makes sense. I mean, I think that colors the way people think about everything. I've said it on here before where I think AI would not be thought of the way it was if we lived in a different system. Right. If people didn't feel like every. aspect of the economy was just designed to like

oppress them and bring them down and lead to like them being paid less if we lived in a different system people would go oh great you guys are working on something that's going to take more labor office so we can do things we want to do with our lives you have a different

you have a completely different outlook on AI like oh please build them quicker but you know build robots so they can do XYZ I think it's a very strange it's a very strange thing. It's not AI inherently is like evil and bad. No, it's all look at it as it's like robbing human creativity.

But they did rob. They did steal a bunch of stuff. Right, right. Sure. But it's, yeah, I think it's because of the way people feel and how they've been treated. Yeah. They then look at these things very suspect. And like it's not going to have any positive impact on their lives.

And we didn't even touch. on how that affects the birth rate. Okay. I don't know why that's funny. But that's true because birth rates are going down because people feel like... Yeah, they don't want to invest in their future. Yeah. I can't afford a kid.

I can't, you know, I can't afford a home. I can barely keep the lights on. Yeah. I mean, I will say birth rates are falling for women under 30 and they're rising for women over 30. So like we do see people just pushing it off. Like I think it's Derek Thompson. and sorry if it's not Derek, sorry if it's not you that said this, but 25 is a new 18.

So like there is, people are pushing things back quite a bit. So people eventually, you know, are kind of reaching those goals. It's just taking a lot longer. Yeah, someone posted that weird headline where it's like the average age for a woman's first birth is now whatever. And people were like, oh my God. Oh my God. Really?

That's because we, well, I think people were like, oh my God, it means no one's having kids anymore because of blah, blah. And so I was like, no, it's because we're making progress and teens aren't having kids, which is a good thing. That's true. But yeah, the fertility rate has fallen, like the number of kids we are having. But yes, yeah, part of the reason of the birth rate going older is because, yeah, we'd have less teen pregnancies. And that is something, you know, that we should. Which is a good thing, you agree.

That's a good thing. Yeah, it's a good. You say goof? I called you a cruise. I mean, oh, I have a story. I saw slot machines getting installed in Vegas. Yeah, that was weird. They're really tall.

And it was kind of funny because I couldn't sleep. I've been having a lot of trouble sleeping. We can't travel so much. That's going to be hard for sleep. Yeah, you got to slow down. Go on. You saw the slot machines being installed. So I saw the slot machines being installed.

And it was kind of funny because all the slot machines have screens. So it's just a screen. And they were rolling them in and they're huge. And like the guy was coding them. so they would set up so people could like get the jackpot or whatever. And then he was testing it and it was hitting a jackpot over and over again. And it was just really funny because it was like in some universe, somebody would have won a lot of money when that sound was being played.

But instead it was just this guy like testing the machine over and over again and getting the three cherries. That is funny. It's not going to work. Nope. This is a bad one. This one pays out way too much. Yeah.

It was just like seeing the machinery, I was like, huh? We really had it figured out with gambling. We had... Go to Vegas or Atlantic City. Yeah. We were like, you can go to these two disgusting places. Whoa, whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. Both places... Vegas is, yeah. What am I? It is gross. No, I'm just kidding around. And, hey, I grew up in New Jersey. I've been to Atlantic City more times than I'd like to admit.

And you never leave feeling good about yourself. It's... But, and that's the way it was. If you want to go do it, you got to go to a nasty, disgusting place. Yeah. They have a system now that I just read. I don't remember where I saw it. It was last night about how I think it's gambling apps do this, where they give you a currency that no matter how many times you lose, you earn points just for participating, which can then be redeemed for things.

Similar to how casinos have like players club to where, oh, if you, hey, at least, you know, I may have lost $1,000 playing blackjack, but I've now got 30,000 MGM. Am points that's good for a free dinner or a free night in the hotel. And that's how, it's one of the mechanisms that they use to keep you. Like, if they're a big spender, you get comp, all this stuff. Yeah, but it's just, it's now the, the gambling apps and whatnot are, are privy to that same technique of keeping people feeling like they're at least winning something. Wish they could do that with stocks where I get like NASDAQ points for how many times I lose.

I'm actually, I got a, I checked my stats. I'm up 70% profitable versus losing trades, which is a very high percentage of winning trades. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. What keeps you up at night, Kyla Scanlon? Um, oh, what, like kind of everything. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I have not been sleeping so good. It's really been. It's surely not piglet. Yeah, she's so great. Do you never sleep in the bed? that's fine i don't some people really judge so

yeah but i just you know i'm just like it's my house or it's her house oh there's no shame when my when my wife is out of town the dog sleeps in bed with me every night i yeah i mean i just like to cuddle that little guy yeah exactly the cuddling and incredible um you know i i like to play video games and she kind of just sits there and so it's

it's really nice uh but i don't know like i think that I just, I, I just, I think I am frustrated and I always kind of knew I would get frustrated at some point with, and I've been frustrated for a long time, but like, I'm just sort of frustrated by, I think a lot of people are by, we have solutions to a lot of these problems, like the work that I do at Vanderbilt. I mostly partner with the researchers to help them explain their research. And like the research coming out of Vanderbilt, which is a think tank, a Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator, you know, there's like, it's like, okay, we should figure out the situation with Ticketmaster and save people $11 billion. And it's like, yeah, we should do that. And I just think that the, you know, going from policy idea to policy execution, the gap between that really irritates me because, you know, you see somebody, it's hard out there. And you see that we could fix it by just like tweaking. this one thing or just having Congress do this one thing and they just they they won't and I that lack

of competence and the lack of willingness to do things for the people who have elected them it drives me nuts on both sides it drives me totally crazy you know the taxpayer the people in the nice C it's like they are ultimately the employers of Congress right and I just it really irritates me well um sorry I probably sound very angry but it just like really makes me that I mean You don't say, I mean, this is like the most... If this is you angry? I was going to say, I think this is something that most people are very upset about. Yeah, exactly.

Most people are. It's not unjustified. It's, I think a lot of people... I think it plays into all the stuff you're talking about, why people feel like the financial nihilism. What's the point if I've just come to see a corporate captured government? We have ways to address it. And like...

Yeah, but it's not going to be implemented if we live in a... what some people would call like a corporate duopoly or whatever. It's just not. And that is very frustrating. I mean, I'm with you. I think it's been like a, I've come to the conclusion that I think I just need to like mourn whatever world I thought I was going to become an adult and do. It doesn't exist, exist and it may never exist.

And I hope something happens. Did you guys ever read Wendell Berry? Who is it? Wendell Berry. So he wrote a lot about farmland and sort of, you know, the problems of the big farms, seeking over the little farms. And it's a lot of, it reminds me of what you're saying where it's like, you know, the world that was once promised is not the world that was.

And one thing that he really talks about is like how hope is a duty during these times of uncertainty. Hope is a duty. Hope is a duty. And I hold on to that when I kind of feel like how you feel where it's like, wow, I didn't know that there would be all these forces. And there's always been all these forces. That's the thing.

There's always been headwinds. Like there was world wars, you know, like before we came along. Dust Bowl. The Great Depression. And so it's always been a level of adversity. And I think all you can do is just like try to come up with solutions, try to get them implemented and then just be hopeful throughout. Yeah.

I want to be clear. I'm not that when I say mourn, when I say mourn, I mean more in the sense of like getting acceptance, I'm not like saying to fall into a place of hopelessness. I still. politically involved. No, I know. I just want to make sure it's clear to people. I'm not saying, like, you should just, but it is a, and I think it can be helpful to be more clear right about where we are exactly. Yeah. So it can be addressed, but it is a, um, it's tough. It's very, it's, and it's sad. It's sad to see people live through this. I agree with that sentiment, um, because there's,

if you adopt doomerism, there's nothing really to prepare for. And if that is, if things are going to go down the toilet, there's nothing you can really do anyway. Yeah. So you might as well prepare for the outcome

where things don't go down the toilet. Which is exactly what I told, a good friend who's kind of dealing with a lot of this uncertainty and feeling kind of in that doom loop of things are, only going to get worse, you know, I'm going to have to start to prepare for some kind of societal downfall. And to him, I was trying to say, like, if that does happen, a lot of us are

probably going to die like that, including you, no matter how much you prepare, someone's going to Is he like a prepper? What's that? He's not a prepper. But I was like, but you might as well, you should prepare for the opposite outcome because it's going to set you up better for success. it's kind of along the lines of, you know, hope is a duty. I think about it and I owe it to my parents and my grandparents who and everybody and all the others, who whatever their deals are, wherever they're buried. I don't know. I don't even know their damn names. Which is sad to think about, you know, the great, great grandparents.

And they were all going to be forgotten. Yeah, that's true. Dang, Gaila, thanks. It's true. It's true. I'm kidding. But yeah, I was talking about this a couple weeks ago with someone. My goal in life is just to make my parents proud and make it all have been worth it for them to have sacrificed so much for me to have all of the opportunities that I've been given by them. I owe it to them. But, oh, man, I forgot what I was going to ask you.

Dang, man. Damn, this is all getting so philosophical. So philosophical. I guess you are seen as such a beacon of knowledge, especially for younger generations. You are good at taking these complex things and making them digestible, and thereby you are kind of a source of, I would say, comfort for a lot of people. Do you, if you could, like, address all of those people, what would you tell them, knowing that they are feeling this similar kind of nihilism? domerism, if they are. I don't know. I can't speak for so many people out there, but I do know, you know, vibes being what they are. I mean, I have a website called askcahyla, or ask.com,

where people will submit me questions, and so I can kind of like see what people are wanting to know about, what they're worried about, what they're wondering about. And, you know, there is a lot of fear and there's a lot of worry and there's a lot of stress. And I think that it's hard to know what to do and it's hard to know which way to turn and I think that's when you know like there's an Annie Dillard quote that I really like did you all ever read her um she's really wonderful but let me try to find her really fast you she her and um her and windleberry passed away within the same month as each other and it was very very sad um but essentially died from a broken heart huh were they together or something No.

Oh. Well, what's the significance of them dying so close together? Just that they're just so special. They're just so special. And so she wrote this in 2017. She wrote this really pretty piece about a total eclipse. And she wrote it in the 1980s. And she wrote significant as it was about the eclipse.

It did not matter with for what is significant. It is significance for people. No people, no significance. That is all I have to tell you. And I think that during these moments of like, whoa, you know, where do we turn? What do we do? That's when it's more important than ever to lean on people around you and to like build out, you know, not even the network because that's such a contaminated term, not with LinkedIn.

But I just say, like, the rise and grind culture. You know, but you just have to like turn to others. And like if you do need help, you have to like try and ask for help as much as you can. There are services out there that can help you if you really do, like, lose your footing. But I think you just have to turn to others. during this time of great uncertainty and use each other as a polite during a time where it's a dark. Yeah. I would also add on to log off from time to time. I think that's good too. Yeah.

And recognize that what's out there on especially Twitter. Especially. Well, in Twitter, the whole algorithm is tweaked to Dumerism. Oh, yeah. You don't say. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. I've severely limited my screen time and both on my phone and computer for like Twitter and Instagram and stuff and I it's just really good I can't recommend it enough to everybody to just remember that like whatever that is is not real yeah there's a lot you can do at the local level that you can like within your local control like people just do not exist like that in your everyday life there is like there's an evil emanating yeah and people are good and have good intentions yeah it's so funny like I feel like the first

we ever did a podcast together. It was about like mean coins and we're all like, ha ha ha, ha, the whole time. And things have really changed. I think that was even maybe even five years ago. Oh, the art of this podcast has been very strange for me where, I mean, we started in the peak of, we started in the peak of like the crypto craze. Trillionaire mindset.

Yeah. And it was all this like joke and it was the Biden era. And it was, uh, it was easy to be like lighthearted. And the last probably two years have just been so. different and yeah it's uh you have to like ground yourself in something yeah i want to i want to go we're running out of time i don't know how much time you even have we should wrap it up yeah we should but i just want to ask one last question i just want to ask one last question when we talk about vibes in a vibe session and all this stuff where do you specifically measure and take your plum bob

of sorts do you do you guys know plumb bob It's a, I forgot what's even used for. It's like a protractor. Anyway, where do you measure your vibes? University of Michigan Consumer Survey. Specifically just that. Yeah, and then the conference board has a sentiment survey too. That's really useful.

I mean, you have to look at a broad swath of sentiment. But, I mean, Joanne Shue, who runs the sentiment survey, she's wonderful. She was on the panel that I moderated at the Chicago Fed. She's really thinking about how to communicate sentiment, how to affect. effectively, you know, we often talk about the economy as if it's a monolith. You know, we talk it averages and medians when it doesn't, everybody has their own individual experience. So she does a really good job. You know, conference board does a good job. They put, Michigan publishes all of their methodology so you can see behind the scenes, which I think is

really useful. Conference board doesn't do that. Um, and much to J.D. Vance's chagrin, don't they like, don't they account for some biases type stuff during different administrations? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She has written papers and papers about. everything that is tossing. He's just been asked about it and he's like, well, they're just trying to. Yeah. But I mean, I think that's where I turn. And then I get a lot of messages.

Like I said, a lot of DMs. I love them. I was going to say, that's going to be, you're just to ask website. It has to be a huge amount of data just in itself on how people are feeling. Yeah, a bunch of,

you know, information on how people are feeling and, you know, what they want. All I really can do is explain things. And so you can help there. That's how I try to help with helping people feel a little bit. better and feel like they have a little bit more control over their circumstances.

But yeah. Understanding goes a long way. Hence your book in this economy, how money and markets really work by Kyla Scanlan, where you can get online the paperback version right now. Where's the best place to buy it? Wherever you buy books, if you want a signed copy,

you can buy it from Skylight books in L.A. Oh, fun bookstore here in L.A. Very cute. Yeah, it's a fun book story, really nice people. Did you do a signing or something? No, I go there like every couple weeks and I sign a bunch of books. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I should do a big sign.

I've never really done like a celebration or a party for my book. You must have the book tour now? No, not really. I did an accidental one where I started talking about a bunch of conferences, but no, I've never. Go to like bookshops and do a little talk. No, I've never done it. Yeah. Yeah, bookshop.

Dot org or Penguin has a website for it. Those are so, you can also door dash it I found out today. Yeah, you can dooredash the books. Wow, geez, Louise. Yeah, in this economy of money and markets really work. The forward is by more. Oregon household. It looks like people are, it's on sale. It's $2 and a couple cents off right now. Oh, I thought you were going to say $2 total. I'm like, no. You got to do a book tour. That's when you get very nervous people coming up to you after and saying and asking you weird questions. I've been that guy many times at a at a bookstore being like, I got to think of the best question and then I just blow it at the end.

Jeez, you've got 21,000 plus reviews. No, no, no. That's from a bookshop. That's not. me. Oh, Bookshop has 21,000 reviews? No, I don't think, you know, hopefully maybe everybody who listens to this podcast can go and give the book five stars and then I'll have 21,000 views. Well, because like I said, the more you understand things, the better you're going to feel about them. Yeah. I think. Yeah. It's illustrated. I illustrated it. It's all my drawings. So there's 60 little drawings in there. There's a new afterward on tariffs and AI. Wow. So, yeah, it's really a fun book. and then the sister version of the book will be out in 2020, my second one. What's it going to be called?

That's how do you spell that? We don't have a title. Oh, oh. Yeah, so that's the pictures of me. That's great. Well, stay tuned for the second book. Go by in this economy now. Do you want to tell anyone else where to find you?

I feel like. Yeah, I mean, just Google. Kyle Scanlan. But I have a substack, Kyla.com. I write about once a month or every five weeks. You know, pretty long essays, really in-depth explainers on the economy. And they're great. They're really good. Yeah. Dan Toomey says that I get really depressing at the end of them sometimes.

I also love your little, there was one I was just reading. They're oftentimes funny too. There was just one where it was like a little, it started with the TSA agent coughing open without covering their mouth like a baby. So it's very funny, very informative. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I think you. And then I do daily short forums almost. And so, you know, I'll explain AI terminology and compare it to a bakery. I really try to make, I feel like probably most people get a gist of what I'm saying. But yeah. Yeah. So kind of anywhere and everywhere I am, you can find me. Great.

We're going to put all those links. We'll put all the links in the, you send us wherever you want. We'll put it in the bio. Kyle, thanks so much for joining us again. It's always a pleasure. It's been such a joy. watching your, I think I said that at that other thing that I'm not supposed to talk about because it's not out yet.

Just move past. Yeah, whoops. Soon enough. Great job is what I mean. Soon enough. Yeah, new project will be announced. And I'm really excited about that too. So, you know, I, yeah.

I'm such an idiot sometimes. No, you're not an idiot. Yeah. Thank you, Kyla. Well, thanks, Kyla, for coming. Coming up on this week's episode of Ben and Emile Show.com. You know what to do. if like a pit bull ever attacks.

No, no, no, no. Always. Even if it's not attacking. You see a pit bull? Finger in the ass. Public service announcement, if you are ever, God forbid,

in a situation where a dog, any kind of dog, is latched on to an animal or a person. Finger in the ass. Right away. Before it can latch on. Choke them out. With your finger in the ass where it won't work.

Fully get on their back and cut off their air supply until they pass out. That is the only, way, it's the quickest way, and more people need to know that. And when it came time to pay, he realized he didn't have his wallet, he said. And he said, I forgot, I think he gave us his ID to hold on to. And then he said, I'll be right back. Never came back. And his ID was like, fucking, I don't know, either not him or expired or something like that. But it was like,

Well, we got gameed by like a legit. I'm going to do that. We're going to make a ton of fake IDs. Just go to restaurants alone. Oh, that's a good idea. I'm going to leave my ID with you so you know I'm coming back. Sike. That's fake.

Sike. That's fake. Stupid that bitch, it. It's a good idea. Although fake IDs are expensive. You can't just get a cheap fake ID. Yeah. All dogs are legendary in their own right when you think about it.

That's true. You ever see all dogs go to heaven? I have, yeah. Man, what a movie. And you don't think the premise is true. I think it's true. dogs go to dogs go to except for cop dogs

that's not come on no even even even Nazi Germany dogs I will say no I think they did not know that dogs are dogs are not that they didn't know they were just following orders

I'm going the kennels that way pal the kennel yeah they're not putting dogs in kennels or they can come in but I'm sticking them in the kennel and you can watch all your friends live in dog heaven where they're getting all the treats and belly rubs they want. Oh, yeah. For 50 years, Canadians have wondered what the names of IKEA furniture mean.

Like Natopa, the guardrail for children's beds. Natopa means giving your favorite person room to grow. It means their safety and your piece of... No. In Swedish, Natapa means night monkey. Mark! IKEA, 50 years of Swedishness at home. Look, he's wearing little...

Pajamas. So cute.