The Ben and Emil Show - BAES 37: How Tiffany Fong lost it all and befriended SBF

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Stop data brokers from exposing your personal information. Go to our sponsor https://aura.com/BAES to get a 14- day free trial and see how much of yours is being sold. __ Tiffany Fong is a reluctant quasi-journalist who joins us this week to explain her unusual path from humble nobody to a majorly influential crypto news leaker and Sam Bankman-Fried's personal confidant.  We're also sponsored by BLUECHEW. Head to https://bluechew.com and use code "BAES" at checkout for your first month FREE. Just pay $5 shipping. __ Support our humble podcast and get bonus episodes at https://www.benandemilshow.com first month is free and all our previous bonus episodes are up there! This episode (and every episode) was masterfully edited by Dillon Moore. Check him out at https://www.dillonmoore.co and @ dillonmoore on IG We're on instagram. @ bencahn and @ emilderosa and @ dillonmoore Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, y'all. We got a very special episode for you today. We're going to get into it in just the second, but a couple things right up top we're going to hit you with. Remember to check out Ben and Emile Show.com. If you have not done so already, you can sign up for bonus content and everything there. People are buying the hats, which is great. We also have a big announcement for another piece of merch. This one was, we got to get some of the, you know, older stuff out of the way when we didn't have. the capacity to do all this stuff, but we finally have some of the posters that people who are asking for from our first live show in New York. The 9-11 posters. They're very cool. Wait, no. Excuse me. It does say 9-11 on there. It says, it does say 9-11 total bummer, which is very funny. They're very cool. We'll put a little, we'll put a little picture of it here. I'll send it to Dylan so you can see it. I don't know how many people, so many people were like, I can't come to New York for that poster or whatever, but I would buy it. if you guys put it up.

So we made like... A thousand. No, we made 75 of them. So if you want them, get it before it's gone. Or maybe it won't sell out and you can take your time. I have no idea if people were even being truthful about wanting it. But it's up there now.

It's live. Anyway, also, shit, we got a good episode for you. We got a... We got Tiffany Fong. You guys remember that picture of SBF that got leaked from jail? That was her. and she inadvertently helped contribute to his sentencing and she's kind of blown up in a very unique way and has a very, she's got a line into SBF that nobody, she has access to this man that nobody else has.

And we have her on the show this week and we're very excited about it. It's a very fun interview. It's a very fun interview. She's got some crazy SBF stories. She's got some crazy SBF. Yeah, it's a real doozy. Oh, and I think the last thing, if you haven't done so already, go check out the Meatball Special, the first installment of the Meatball Special.

We're doing a monthly show with our dear friend, Phil Matarice, and it's very fun. People are loving it, so you should go check it out. Also, there is some bonus content for that, and it lives exclusively on Ben and Emile Show.com. Also, if this is your first time, if you've never seen us before, welcome. We do this every week. We love you. We take the piss out of all the shit going on in the world. I know we just met, but we love you already.

Yeah, we love you already. Damn, you're looking good. Hey, guys, we got to take a quick break to thank a sponsor of today's show, ORA. So I'm just Googling my own name, as I am wont to do from time to time. And it's kind of upsetting because there's a lot of information on the internet about little old me. And we're not loving what we're seeing. We're not loving what we're seeing. We don't like that.

There's a lot of private stuff online. It's uncomfortable seeing your private information out there. It's uncomfortable because there's these things out there called data brokers and they sell your information to spamers, scammers, anyone else who might want to target you. They've got your full name, usually your email, sometimes your home address, your health records, your relatives. It's all out there for the taken. So that's why we've been using ORA, who's the sponsor of today's video. it shows us which data brokers are selling your information and automatically submits opt-out requests for you.

We used ORA to go in and look at our own breaches and see how much... There were dozens out there. Dozens of people with our information. Which would explain all the spam email that I get and also the spam just actual mail that I get. Probably all the phone calls I'm getting from frickin' scammers. Oh, yeah, that's all included on there.

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And it's also linked below in the description. Oh, wow. Okay, Tiffany, welcome. Hello, thank you. You are Tiffany Fong. I am Tiffany Fong. You are Tiffany Fong. Of Tiffany Fong by Tiffany Fong Fong.

You are very Googledable now. So if people want to Google, yeah, I don't know if you've done it yourself or Bing. I don't know if you're being a person. I have at certain, at various points in this. I found like some interesting things. You know how they're like celebrities have those who are they dating things? Yeah. I found some of those about myself, which I wasn't expecting.

What do they say about you? Some of them found old pictures of boys that I went to fraternity invites with in college. And like, we're like, is she dating? Sam Bickman-Fried or this man here that is a photo from like college. Which one are you dating? Ah, neither. I'm single sadly. So those sites are wrong.

They're all wrong. They're probably written by AI. No, but you also have some more very legit. Claims to fame. Yeah. I don't know why I brought attention to those. I should have brought attention to like the New York Times or something. The Rolling Stone profile.

There is a Rolling Stone profile on me. Yeah. Why don't we start from the beginning? Because for those of you who don't know, well, for a lot of people, including us, we heard about you recently because you were the one who published the photo of Sam Bankman-Fried in jail at, is it MDC? MDC, Brooklyn, which just was blasted all over the internet. I had people, I had fans of the show DMing me and sending it to me and which is how I

know, okay, we're going to talk about something when I just get dozens of people going, you know, look at this. Oh, my God. But so, yeah, we established contact and now here you are. So why don't we? And as we've found out, you've been embedded in this situation kind of quite some time. I have been. I love it. It's been like my life for the past year and a half ever since FTX went down and Celsius went down, these crypto companies.

So why don't we start from the beginning? Let's let's back up and find out how you how you got so involved. Yeah, what happened? Oh, it's so weird. How did it start? And I know you've probably done it a lot. So thank you for humoring us. Oh, it's okay.

It's okay. What happened? I mean, this all started because suddenly in July 2020, I lost the majority of my life savings to one of these crypto collapses called Celsius Network. It turns out to be, I mean, the guy hasn't gone to trial yet, but I'm pretty sure it's basically a Ponzi. But I left 3.1 Bitcoins and 11.6 eth in this company called Celsius, which was worth about a quarter million dollars when I deposited it. Yeah. So it was a huge loss. And also around that time in my personal life, I was already, I was going through a breakup, which is like we touched on earlier. I'm currently single. I don't know. That's not that important to this podcast. But I was just going through a rough time that I lost the majority of my life saving suddenly in. July 2022. And I just didn't know what to do with my thoughts, my feelings. I was waking up every morning with like panic attacks. And I was like, I need to channel this energy into something. I had no

aspirations of being like a YouTuber or a social media person or an influencer or anything. But I just started posting on YouTube and Twitter about my losses. So my first video on YouTube is just I lost over $200,000. That's the title of my first week. Did that coincide with the, was that like the crypto winter when everything tanked in like June? Yeah, it's like Tara Luna went down, then Celsius went down. Celsius went down a couple months before FTX, but it was basically like dominoes that collapsed around that time. And there was no warning whatsoever. There was no writing on the wall to like get your money out of there, transfer it to Coinbase, transfer it to cold stories.

I'm going to be honest. I mean, Terraluna went down before Celsius did. I'm going to be honest, I was not someone who was even remotely involved in the crypto space. Like I didn't use Twitter. I didn't use YouTube or anything. So I wasn't looking this stuff up actively. I had just thrown some money in because greedily, I will admit, I liked the idea of making some passive income and Celsius offered yield to customers.

And I had been holding crypto for a really long time. I did get in very early. So I had a bunch of crypto plopped it into this platform. So I wasn't actively like reading up like what's going on with Celsius. Any, any news about Celsius? For you, it was just a platform to earn some yield. Wait, they were. The passive income.

Weren't they paying yield on like their own token? They, um, you could earn yield in their token, but for the most part, they were paying yield out in like whatever tokens you put in. So I was earning Bitcoin every month that I left Bitcoin in the platform. Wow. And, you know, obviously when there's yield, there's risk. But, um, I mean, the yield on Bitcoin and Eath, it was like three to five percent, which didn't feel insane to me.

Obviously, looking back in retrospect, horrible decision wouldn't recommend. But, uh, yeah, that's how this all started. I basically lost the majority of my savings, was going through a rough time and just started posting on YouTube and Twitter about my losses. And that first video, I had zero subscribers on YouTube, but it ended up getting like, I think like 80,000 views just in a not too long a time frame. So I was like, hey, a lot of people must be looking this up. A lot of people who lost money are probably looking for answers. So I just started making updates on what was going on at Celsius. I was Googling it every day and collecting that information and making updates.

That led to employees inside the company beginning to leak me information from inside the company. From inside Celsius. Yes. And before all this, just to be clear, you were, you got in early to crypto, but you were not like a crypto influencer or anything like that. I honestly didn't give a fuck about crypto. And I still am not a crypto evangelist.

How early are we talking? I got Bitcoin, my first Bitcoin I got in 2011. Oh, wow. Okay. On what plat? On what Mount Goss? So, no, honestly, I can't take the credit for this. I wasn't some genius.

I was in high school in 2011. I wasn't a genius. One of my relatives was Bitcoin mining at the time. And he gave me my first Bitcoin as a Christian. Christmas gift. And I remember being like, what the fuck is this? I don't give a fuck about this. Family member is he, are they loaded?

I think he's doing just fine. Good for you for not becoming a crypto evangelist because if I had a Bitcoin in 2011, I would be like, this is the future. This entire show would be different. I would hope that if you were getting Bitcoin way back then, you would have had more than just one. Yeah. Because it would suck to only have one.

Sure. I mean, I collected a couple over the years as Christmas gifts. And also I ended up, I ended up. I ended up investing some of my own money into it, mostly because I was seeing the price raised. And I was like, hey, maybe it wasn't so bad an investment or a gift at all. Maybe I should buy some more. So I did get in pretty early.

But, yeah, I mean, I find the people who are like evangelical about crypto to be kind of insufferable. So for you, you were just kind of sitting on a nice little nest egg that you kind of stumbled into. And I did, over time, end up putting a lot of my life savings into crypto. So it is how it ended up being such a massive chunk of my portfolio. Was it in part, were you influenced by that family member to keep putting money in? Oh, he's a full Bitcoin maxi.

He's constantly preaching to me about Bitcoin. Good for you. I'm such a prick that if my cousin told, I'd be like, I don't want this. Take it back. That's exactly how I felt about it. But I remember in 2017, I was holding that Bitcoin and I saw it hit 20K. And I was like, you know what?

I was wrong. I was wrong and you were right. I traded it. I ignored it. And then when it hit like a thousand, I thought, all right, I'll buy five. And I bought five of them. And then I flipped it at like 1,200. And I thought, ooh.

And then now I'm like, God, it'd be nice to have five of those again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. God, fuck me. The amount of, the amount of bullets you have to, if you had one from 2011, the amount of bullets you have to dodge to hang on to that. Yeah. Is that's the thing.

Well, so that's the thing. I had diamond hands because I just didn't give a fuck about crypto. Like, by the way, she just hit a vape. Oh, I'm so sorry. No, no, we love it. I'm saying it for the audio listening. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's great.

I'm very unprofessional. No, people get mad at me on my channel for vaping so much because people at this point, we haven't gotten to my whole story, but now some people think I'm like a legitimate, real professional journalist. And they're like, this is very unprofessional of you. And I'm like, guys, I'm literally like a shit poster in my bedroom. Like, I'm hitting my bait. I love it.

I'm so sorry for interrupting. She's a crypto and vape influencer. And I, if anyone, if any vape companies want to sponsor me, I'm here. I'm holding a jewel. I'm sorry. Oh, where did I leave off? Oh, I mean, I had, I basically had diamond hands and didn't sell because I didn't give a fuck about it.

So, right. Okay. And you had all your money tied up in Celsius. Everything went belly up. You were very pissed. And then you started getting connected with Celsius. Celsius employees just began reaching out to me on anonymous Twitter accounts. I at first thought, oh, this is kind of bullshit.

But then some of them sent me recorded, like secretly recorded internal all hands meetings. And I could hear the CEO's voice. Yeah. So I posted the first one with the New York Times. And then it just led to sort of a snowball effect of other employees just. seeing me as the leak source. Yeah.

Or who did give leaks to? So I ended up posting a lot of sort of big leaks about this just recently collapsed crypto company. Yeah. And that caught the attention of Sam Bakeman-Fried. So Sam started following me on Twitter in September 2020, back when he was still the golden boy of crypto. I mean, this is when FtX was still thriving.

And you know, with Bill Clinton, Tony Blair. Didn't he have a hand in Celsius crash? There are conflicting thoughts on that, like some, some Celsius. customers say that he was shorting cell token and stuff like that. I mean, but I don't think he was like the actual like cause of the collapse, but. Wow. Okay. So he reaches out to you and says what? I mean, so he just started following me. And at the time, I had just started posting. So I didn't have that big of a following. So he was my first like sort of big high profile follower. So I just DM'd like, hey, thanks for the follow. I probably like. And I was like, oh, this is a big shot. Like

I didn't know that much about Sam. Like I said, I wasn't that invested in the crypto space prior. But I'd obviously seen this guy's face. I'd seen his face on Forbes, on Fortune. I knew he was a big shot. So I was like, oh, thanks for the follow. So we just exchanged a couple of messages that day, and I didn't think too much of it. And I think he posted once that he was following me because I was posting Celsius leaks. And we didn't talk again until November 2020 when FTX went down. So FTX obviously was a massive company, multi-billion dollar company. And he needed someone to talk to. I mean, he kind of couldn't help him. himself but talk he couldn't help himself but talk he did he did talk to a lot of people but I think

that I was one of the first interviews he gave so I messaged him the day that FTX went down and I was in my head I was like this guy's not going to respond to me I'm not I'm not a New York Times journalist I'm not a Wall Street journal person whatever also I think at that point he shouldn't have been talking to anybody so it was the right yeah I think his lawyers would have been like oh yeah maybe don't do that he shouldn't have been talking anyone I mean this entire time he shouldn't of. Yeah. But yeah, he responded to me in a couple days and was like, hey, free for the next hour or so for what it's worth, sent me his phone number. So we hopped on a phone interview. Wasn't there funny? Weren't you like on a date or something? And he... I was on a date.

Yeah. So Sam didn't respond to my first message for a couple of days. So I just went about my life and I already was like, this guy's not going to respond to me. Like he shouldn't be talking to anyone. So I was out on a date getting drinks at some Brooklyn dive bar 12.30 a.m. I look at my phone and I see the message from Sam, free for the next hour or so, for what it's worth, with his phone number. And I'm like, I can't postpone on this guy. Like, this is a huge deal getting this interview. Yeah. So I'm like, I can't postpone.

I'm kind of drunk, just ran. I showed my date. My date actually is someone who I met doing this crypto coverage stuff. And he had lost a bunch of money to FTX. So he was like, you go talk to Sam Beckman Free and ask him where the fuck my money is. Oh, incredible. Which Brooklyn Dive are we talking? Is this Charlene?

We looked this up because we're still. friends and we talked on the phone we were like wait what was the name of that die bar i know it was in walking distance to rockerola and we were looking for something a little more quiet so we just looked up bars near rockerola and we walked to something a little more quiet okay but in that vicinity so i guess that's Williamsburg union pool it wasn't those union pool's not quite enough what was it we got a helicopter we got a little bit of a helicopter situation

i'm sure i could ask it it's cool i mean this isn't that important of it no no we like it because we love we love new york city no it was a round walkerola though wasn't union pool though it wasn't commodore but we looked something yeah so you you rush home you're drunk was he in where was he barbadoes or he was in the bahamas bahamas yeah and it's funny because if you do listen to that first interview you can hear waves crashing in the background and wow what a life this guy was living for a few years he really was he really was god but i mean i had never interviewed anyone in my life like i wasn't a podcaster i wasn't a journalist. So that was my first time ever interviewing anyone. So I was just Googling FTCS

bankruptcy and was just looking at headlines. So in my head, I was just like, okay, let me just write little notes on like what the headlines are saying about FTC. I wasn't prepared with questions. Hey. All right. So at this point, he's still free. Still free. Hadn't been indicted just yet. Okay. Yeah. And so what did you guys talk about then? So we covered a lot of topics. I basically went over. Yeah. Like I asked him most of the things I was seeing in the news, but I think the one big, I guess, scoop that I got from that that I didn't realize was even a scoop was that he admitted to me that he donated, he claimed equal amounts of money to Republicans as he did, as he donated to Democrats,

but he donated the money to Republicans dark. Because he said journalists will freak out because they're also liberal or whatever. Yes, exactly. What's, why did he bring it? Like, what's the point? I, I don't even know why he told me that, but I didn't know. I didn't know it was such a big scoop because Sam was going on and off the record. And I did remove everything he said was off the record.

Okay. But that was on the record. So since he said it so forthcomingly, I was like, oh, maybe that's publicly known. Like, I didn't realize that this was like a massive scoop. Oh. Yeah. So in the following days after I ended up posting that, well, I actually held on to the interview for a couple of weeks because I was like, am I supposed to write an article about it? I don't know what to do with this.

Yeah. How did you end up posting it, a video or an article? I posted it as an audio interview on YouTube. So, and I posted, like, initially with Coffeezilla and then he linked, so he took a few clips from it and then he linked to my video. So, um, what was going to say? Yeah, I didn't, I didn't like know how it would be received. But yeah, that, that dark donations thing got Sam into a bunch of shit because it got cited in the federal elections commission or committee or whatever complaint against him. And then that kind of turned into one of his initial criminal charges.

And I really genuinely didn't actually know. that that was such a weighty piece of information at the time because he was so open about it. Hey, guys, this episode is sponsored by none other than Blue Chew. Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex. Sex. Hey, guys. You remember the days when you were always ready to go?

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had I known I'm gonna be honest like I know a lot of people fucking hate Sam Bigman Fried but I don't know if I would have shared it if I knew that it was like get him like a criminal charge. Well, yeah, but I mean, there were so many other criminal charges. I mean, at this point, while you're going through all this, me and Ben, we were hosting a different show at the time, but it was just called them different, very similar, but we were dying at all of the clips that he would just go. I mean, I think there was an ABC News one where he did that crazy pause where. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. And it was repeating the words back to himself. Yeah. So, I mean, he was going to leak this no matter what. No, that's true. He had to get it out. That's true. He was like, I need to tell people I've been doing elections fraud as well. The people need to know.

I think it's the result of Adderall because Adderall will do that. Do you think? I told, I think I told the story. Yeah, I did because she ended up finding, she ended appearing it and reaching out to me. I was so high on Adderall in college one day that I saw this girl that I barely knew from years prior. And I saw her on MySpace and she was posting all these party pictures. And I just was so high, I was like, I got to tell her right now how much she sucks. So I wrote her, it was on MySpace.

I wrote her this long email just saying like, hey, Brittany, you think you're so fucking cool. Well, guess what? You're not. You're actually, you know, you think you're so cool going on all these parties? Well, guess what? You're not. You're stupid. You fucking, you do, little, just for no reason out of nowhere.

And then the next day, I mean, while you're like cracked out in bed, you're like, do you think you're so cool? It was the middle of the day. It wasn't even nighttime. time i had no excuse and other than the fucking adderal and then the next day i check i log on and she's written me back and she goes she just put me in my place she said wow ben i didn't know that i was so uh uncool please next time you you you know she just totally put me in my place and i just was i wrote back just like i'm so sorry i don't know what to tell you other than i was really high on adderol and uh but yeah it's that kind of i want to be clear adderall doesn't do

that's me. I know. I was going to say, I've never heard anyone react to that way to Adderall. And I've also never had the urge to commit elections fraud on Adderall. True. No, no, I'm not talking about, I'm talking about his desire to, yeah, to talk, to talk. Because, yeah, it. I don't think I react that way to Adderall, though. I mean, I just want to study and clean and shit. It was a one-off. But I'm glad you take it and you're like, man, I'm going to let a motherfucker know right now. Yeah, I think it's because I was in the middle of studying and I just felt like, I'm not doing anything fun with my life. And I'm 20 years. old or whatever and you do you guys remember the cobra snake no there's this photographer of this do you remember him there's this famous photographer in in l.a and new york who would go to parties all the time like every single day there's a party and he just would bring his camera and just take pictures of all these hot people and then they'd get posted the next day on his website and she was posting she was going to these parties and posting these pictures and i was like

were you jealous yeah of course yeah he's just jealous that's what it was I was jealous and pissed off. And yeah, anyway, so it sounds like he was high on Adderall. So I understand. So you understand where Sam is coming from. I do. I do a little bit because sometimes you just want to spill your guts. Dan, if you're getting some shit, I'm going to call your lawyer and be like, keep the

Adderall away from him. This man's going to sing like a canary. Well, I think that he probably thought that the more I share, the more people are going to see that I'm not guilty. Yeah, well, for me, it feels way less anything like the Adderall. but it maybe feels like a control thing where he was like desperate to control the narrative and be like, okay, this is so out of control. Everyone is talking about how this thing imploded, blaming me, let me get out in front

of all this and get my story out, but instead it just obviously was going to make everything way, way worse. Yes, yes. I would agree that that was probably his viewpoint on all of this, but yes, it did make things way, way worse. Insane. Like, yeah, just. So was there, were there more interviews that you think?

then did with him that ended up. You guys were like in constant contact throughout this entire. I mean, so we had that first phone call and a few days after that first phone call I hadn't posted it yet, but I messaged him again. I was like, hey, do you want to do another phone call? And he was like, yeah, let's do another. So I had two interviews with him. And this was two weeks before he went on his media tour. So this was two weeks before he went on the New York Times Deal Book Summit, a good morning America, et cetera. So this was when he was still being silent. Yeah, some of your interviews probably ended up in some of the, like as some of the questions that some of these more mainstream journalists.

I think so. Some of these mainstream journalists are seething. Just like, who is this fucking girl? They're getting high on Adderall and telling you you're a bitch. Like I did. Oh, that's kind of what I assumed. Well, because I didn't know if I was going to post the actual audio of the interview. And I started posting written forms of some things he had said to me.

But obviously, I was someone with not a huge following, wasn't known, like, as a journalist or anything. So a lot of people were just saying, like, this girl, you really talk to Sam Bakeman-Fried. you're full of shit. So I was like, I don't know. I guess I have to post the actual audio. So then I heard he was going to do the New York Times Deal Book Summit. And I was like, all right, I'm going to front run the New York Times Deal Book Summit. So I did post it the day before the New York Times Deal Book Summit. So I probably took some of their questions. Sorry, I'm so sorry to Andrew Ross Sorgon. Shout out. I think you do a good job. And I'm nothing

compared to him. But yeah. But yeah. So that's. So that second interview, what kind of, what kind of shit did he get himself in trouble for this time? The second one, I think, I think I think he got less press attention than the first one. He did say some not amazing things on that either. But yeah, we just talked on the phone for quite some time. And he didn't even go off the record for part of it, but I just removed it because it was just like we were just chatting about our personal lives.

Like we were just talking like about what it's like to live in the Bahamas and loneliness and how he was feeling and stuff. So I removed that part of it. But I think it established some sort of a friendly rapport. Like so I think we became sort of moderately. friendly on that so um but um since since that one scoop did get him into a lot of trouble i was like i don't really expect to hear from sam again like after after i kind of got him to deep shit but um then he went off on the media tour and then he was arrested in the bahamas he was

extradited to the united states yeah i heard he had a bad time in the bahamas jail he did have a bad time in the bahamas jail why because he didn't get because it's just an awful experience it's Like, if you look up the jail, he was in, sorry, am I banging you with my chair? It's like infested with rats and roaches and it's just very dirty. They obviously, he, he's couldn't get his Adderall or his medication. Well, that's another, yeah, he's very, he seems like quite a needy prisoner. He's got his vegan, he's got his vegan, he's got his vegan meal options, his meds, all that stuff. Which I get.

And I can't imagine that the, the Bahamians. well and I think initially he didn't want to be extradited he told me that he was like they didn't even know what a vegan was so he didn't have I think initially he wanted to not get extradited to the US and then he got put in the Bohemian jail and he was like I'll actually I'll do the extradition you can extradite me maybe just bring me home boys that's basically what happened yes yes but like so he was extradited and he was released on a 250 million dollar bond which I think is one of the largest in US history but I was like okay this guy's not going to reach out to me obviously the first interview got you in some hot water. I thought that was the last of it. But I was like, oh, cool. I got two huge interviews. But the day that he landed back at home, I just ran, I woke up the next day to a text from Sam. I was just like, hey, finally back online. Like, just totally out of the blue. So, yeah, he contacted me, like the day that he got back to his parents' house in Palo Alto, California. And we went back and forth a little bit. And then I was like, I'm just going to shoot my shot again, yet again. Like, I didn't expect to get the first interview, but I was like, hey, are you

allowed visitors and I was like I didn't think that someone being charged with like eight charges from the criminal I don't know from the DOJ is going to be allowed visitors casually but he was like yep I'm allowed visitors I'd be happy to see you at at his parents house wow okay and so were you back in New York at this point um where was I at that time I think I was in Las Vegas okay but I was actually going to go to San Francisco for my sister and her husband live in San Francisco so I was going to go there for Christmas and that's around the time that he got back to his parents house. So I was like, oh, I'm actually going to be in San Francisco around Christmas. Are you allowed visitors? And he said yes. So I visited him for the first time on December 27th. So two days

after Christmas. 2023. 2022. Okay. Yeah. And at this point, what are his spirits like? That was right after he'd been released from the Bahamian prison. And he basically told me like, I've been going insane. Like, I've been going mad. Mostly due to like the lack of communication with the outside world. He said he was going crazy because he was like, I've never been in a situation. where I have thoughts that I'd like to say to people or put out in the world and you just can't do that. So he was really struggling. What's the parents' house like?

His parents' house. I feel like people expected to be really ostentatious, but it's kind of a normal house. I mean, not too dissimilar from where we are, but bigger. It was large, but it wasn't ostentatious. Like the decor and everything like that was kind of like normal house. Sorry about that. I'm kind of obsessed with his parents.

I love them. Did you meet them? I have met them really briefly. Like when I'd be at Sam's house, there were a couple of times where they'd kind of like accidentally pop their head into it. Because we'd usually sit in this study, I guess, office study. And his parents would sometimes pop their head in and be like, hey, Sam. And then they'd see I was in there. And then they would just shut the door.

Oh. So they weren't, they didn't love me. And then, yeah, and then I had an interaction with Sam's mom during trial. And she made clear that she does not not like me. Whoa, what she said. She said that I wrote a very unfortunate article about Sam, but I don't really write articles, so I wasn't sure if she was confusing me for someone else,

but she doesn't like me. I feel like it's impossible to not write an unfortunate article about Sam. I'm kind of like, right? I'm kind of like, I don't know how you can't. I can't really say he's innocent. So I don't know. So she wasn't a fan. But I also just find them so crazy.

like so they're both law professors i think yes they're both stanford and just some of their own behavior throughout the trial i'm like are these the stupidest fucking law professors in the way i i just i don't understand but any examples come into mind for you it's so long ago now the dad's demands of like wanting oh yes like exactly like and then coming to him and being and then being pissed and wanting more like wanting a bigger house in the bahamas and all this fucking shit and you're like what the fuck is you're like what the fuck is that you're like what the fuck is going on. Dude, I agree with that.

These people need to be in jail. It's insane to me that they're not in any kind of trouble. I know. I mean, I think that there's a lawsuit against them. FTX as a company is suing them. But I mean, other than that, I don't think they've been indicted or anything like that. Yeah, that stuff didn't look great. I mean, like, yeah, the dad straight up asked for like millions of dollars or something like that.

I mean, granted, if my son was SBF, I'd be doing the same thing. I'd be like, hey, son, put me a couple months ago. So that's, I think that's the thing with the whole SBF thing is that it's, it's, it's a lot of these guys who got rich very quickly. I think they're smart in a specific way where they, like, knew a lot about this very specific thing, but they haven't been around that long and they didn't have a lot of the things in place

that could have protected them. So there's like a lot of like institutional, um, like more establishment finance people who get away with things because they do everything right. And it's just bizarre to me that two Stanford law professors wouldn't be like, hey,

there's some ways you can protect yourself here. And not only yourselves. ourselves. They're just like fully like, yep, let's jump in the shit and just fucking, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want a fucking million dollar Bahamas house. I want to, and you're like, what is going on? Totally, man, it corrupts. Absolutely. So then it's kind of like, I don't want to like accuse them of being guilty of things, but I'm kind of like, is it just like you blind? You can accuse them here. It's like, okay, yeah, like willfully turning a blind eye to like things that are going on when you guys are clearly like the adults in the room. I don't know.

It's a little sketchy. So you're at the parents' house. Was that the last time you saw him before he went away? Um, yeah, I visited him pretty, I visited him quite a few times over house arrest. Wow. Yeah. How many times? Uh, I haven't been giving exact counts, but I guess it's already in the Rolling Stone thing. It was like over, over 10.

So, wow. Wow. I visited him pretty regularly. I mean, it's a weird. I would say that I consider Sam a friend. Like we, I don't know. I don't know what Sam would say publicly about it or anything, but like I consider Sam a friend. And I would assume that he, to some degree, considers me a friend.

And I think he just kind of needed a listening ear during that time. And this was before he actually went to trial and all the evidence came out. So, like, at the time, I didn't assume that everything he said was the truth. But I also was like, let me hear you out. And then I'm going to go to your trial, which I did. And then I'm going to hear out the other side. So I was willing to listen to him. And he, like, his closest friends throughout his life were the people that testified against him.

So he just didn't really have any friends throughout that period. So we did sort of become friends, which I guess is not the most favorable thing to say publicly. But it's not like you'd befriended fucking Hitler Mussolini or something That's true That's true Same if you're watching right now

Our DMs are open You can He wouldn't be allowed to come on the show I don't think so We can maybe Skype him in He's very incarcerated So I don't think he'd be allowed

I mean did you guys have Some like extremely intense moments I mean You were hanging out with him a bunch While he was looking down the barrel Of 100 and some odd years in prison I mean we did have a lot of conversations about like the prospect of him potentially being in prison for life. And there were some like quite emotional moments. I'm sure. I know the public doesn't take kindly to ever sort of sympathizing with or empathizing with Sam. But on a human level, I mean, of course, I was going over there pretty frequently. And I do see him as like a human being. And I know people get mad at that statement. But he is a human being. So yeah, we had a lot of like kind of intense conversations. And he's definitely a human being. And it's definitely, uh, it's an odd thing. I mean, I don't. It's a

It's, I don't like root for anyone to have awful things happen to them. I also think it's a weird example of, you know, there's so many financial crimes that go unpunished. And so people obviously get very riled up and are like, good, finally, we're getting someone. But I think hitting him with a huge punishment is not anywhere near as effective as going after a bunch of people at the same time. and giving them prison sentences or something closer to like five to ten years rather than giving one guy like 175 years. I completely agree.

There are so many things going on and like of course this high profile one like they have to do something about but there's so many things going on that just go unpunished. Totally. I mean, I think he's going to get an insane sentence because this is so high profile

which doesn't feel necessarily fair if you compare it to other crimes or and I'm also, I mean, mean, people don't take kindly to this, but I'm like, I personally don't want anyone to get a life sentence who's like a nonviolent criminal. I mean, you guys might disagree. But I'm kind of like, the people I want to see in prison for life are like pedophile. Oh, I don't know if I can say that word. Petophiles. Okay. I don't think it's controversial to say I want pedophiles behind bars. We've been like cursing the whole time and I'm like pedophiles. But like, yeah, pedophiles are like murderers and things like that. So I mean, yeah, exactly. Rapists. So I mean, like to me, I'm kind of like, Sam is facing 115. years. And I think that if he gets the max, that seems unfair to me. What is your assessment of what he did wrong or where he went wrong? I mean, Sam, he did misuse a lot of customer funds and did he didn't funnel them into his own bank accounts to spend on strippers, yachts, or parties, but he did spend a lot of money

on political donations, illiquid venture investments. And some of those liquid venture your investments have actually done quite well since the bankruptcy. Like he invested $500 million into Anthropic, which obviously has gone up a lot since AI has gone kind of crazy since then. What is Anthropic? It's an AI company. Okay. Yeah.

So that's done really well. And it was one of FTX's largest investments. So to me honestly, 500 million? 500 mil. Yeah. So I think it's now worth like close to three, two or three bill. So that's actually why FTC's customers are ultimately being made whole. Maybe the DOJ should have let him cook.

So that's the thing. But that's the thing. There was certainly a misuse of customer funds, but it's not as straightforward a fraud as, I don't know, some other criminals who did actually just funnel a bunch of money into their own bank accounts. It was like a lot of misuse of funds, so I'm not going to like vouch for the guys innocence or anything. But it to me ethically feels, I don't know if this sounds good, but it feels less bad than people who are actually funneling money to just enrich their lives. I think that Sam is a bit delusional and he actually thought that he could just double. or triple this money. That's why he was making all these illiquid venture investments. Obviously, that was not right to do. I do not condone his behavior. But I think he in his head didn't

think that anyone was going to get hurt or I don't think he considered it stealing. That's what I think too. I think that he reached such a point where money just doesn't become real. And it's like points in a video game. And you're just, you're, and when enough people surrounding you tell you, tell you're a genius and you get all these profiles about how you are the second coming of money christ or whatever uh you really he i mean i'm sure he already believed it anyway because of what he did with the whole bitcoin arbitrage and jane street and all that stuff he was already somewhat of a wonderkind and then he yeah they just i mean they trust me with all this money why why shouldn't i go use it in other ways that it would just get bogged down and all sorts of red tape if i were to have

to do it the appropriate way. So I'll just do it and nobody will know and everybody will be happy at the end of the day. That's kind of how I view the situation as well, like the exact same way. And like, it's like I think that he was kind of delusional and reckless, but I'm also like, I can almost psychologically understand how someone in his position might become super overconfident. Like, oh yeah. From day one, you're being told you're going to be the world's first crypto trillionaire and you're like that, yeah, a genius wonder kid. Like I can kind of see how he became way too overconfident. Especially putting his his girlfriend in charge. of trading billions of, like that was, I feel like that was quite a big domino to fall

because then her losses ended up having to get covered by, like, it feels like that was a big, which is ultimately his fault because it was his decision to put her in such a position. But I still think he's a sicko. I feel like there's a lot of SBF apology going on. Hey, I mean, that is the popular sentiment is that he's a sicko. an apologist. I'm just saying that I understand. I don't understand. And I think his whole thing with the like effective altruism and like I just need I just need many more billions of dollars so I can like shape the world around me into like what I believe it can be

and stuff is just like he's just like that's like superhero, super villain. I think it's a delusional viewpoint. I actually think the EA thing is true because some people think that he was just saying he was in EA because it was like as a PR statement I actually think it's true because he like he won't stop talking about EA like every conversation even just private like if we're just talking one-on-one just non-stop talks about EA like he's really obsessed with it even from jail and oh I don't know if I want to say that but anyway yeah he talks about EA non-stop but and he showed me some of his like he had like these blogs from 2011 2012 where he was like writing about like where your dollar can be best spent like if you donate that dollar so I actually think he believed in EA but to a

delusional extent to where I think he was sort of like an ends justify the means kind of person where he was like yeah I need these billions of dollars and I'm kind of like at what point would you stop at what point is it enough money I don't know it's I think he's kind of delusional but yeah I don't know it's just like the whole Silicon Valley ethos like to the max of like we can solve all these problems with just like efficiency uh you know we just will teach every homeless dog to code and it's like they're all just so fucking stupid and they don't realize how stupid they are because they know a lot about one one thing. Yeah. And they're like, well, I know a lot about this one thing, like, and a lot of people respect me for that. I have good ideas about everything. Yeah. So you should give me all of the money and I should fix all the problems.

Yeah. And I'm not an EA. I don't agree with all that. Yeah. Like, Silicon Valley shit. Does he now, does he ever, uh, does he ever, uh, does he ever lament about, uh, how if he had just been able to hold on a little bit longer, this all would have just been, because like, part of it was the fact that crypto was tanked.

And by now, he'd be totally fine. I mean, to be honest, I mean, one of the things he said is his biggest regrets is, my biggest regret is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which sounds like delusional. And when he would say that to me, I'm like, that's fucking delusional. You had to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. But he's probably correct in that if he had managed to like just hold out for this many months. Obviously, crypto's gone up so much. Yeah.

I think the company would have been fine. Obviously, I don't think that everything he did at the company was kosher. So it basically is kind of like, yeah, you would. hidden the fraud, but, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I'm like, I'm not unaware of that, but I'm kind of like, you're probably right in that if you didn't file for chapter 11, the company would itself be fine and liquid probably. So I can see how he regrets it, but it obviously is like probably not the piece that the public wants to hear that he regrets. Yeah. And just speaking of hate, God, excuse me, I noticed that you get a lot of hate. About what? All sorts of things. Like,

What is the number one thing that you get hate for when you're posting about this stuff? I mean, during Sam's trial, I was really, I tried to be very unbiased. Like, I think now I'm kind of being more forthcoming and saying that, like, yeah, I think that we became friends. So, but during the trial, I think I was pretty unbiased. Like, now I get hate for saying that, like, I don't, I don't think he deserves a life sentence. What else? I mean, people don't like that I'm, like, unprofessional. I think people, now that I've gotten so many things that are, I guess, are considered publicly.

is like big scoops. I think people think that I'm an actual professional journalist. So people get mad at me for vaping. People get mad at me for cursing or being giggly or whatever. But I'm like, I'm literally just doing, like, I started doing this from my fucking bedroom. I have no background in journalism or anything like that. So I don't know. What does that friendship look like exactly, though?

Because you're clearly, when you hang out with them, you do have somewhat of an agenda, right? It is kind of tough, yeah, because I feel like ultimately it's like, yeah, I want to get information. And you're both getting something from the other. It doesn't feel like a traditional friendship. It's very strange. I've even asked Sam on a phone call once, like, do you consider me like an actual friend? Or is this more like you want to get a narrative out? Like do you, are you kind of using me?

And Sam was like, yeah, I consider you a friend with some caveats. And I was like, what is that? So it is a strange friendship. Well, if Sam said to you, uh, I would. want to continue being friends but you cannot publish anything that we talk about anymore would you guys still hang out i would still talk to him i mean i just partially i think it's interesting like i'm personally interested in it and like i guess i could cover whatever i want i'm not working for anyone no one's assigned me to cover ftx but i mean like i find it interesting as someone who

lost money and then like since i have already spent so much time learning about this case and everything like that i find it interesting so i'd still want to talk to him i mean it's incredibly interesting it's that i mean you were with someone who i don't know do you guys ever have those dreams where you know something um something awful happens unspeakable happens where and in your dream you have the feeling of my life is different now like i'm i'll probably go to jail or whatever and then you wake up and you go oh good god drive my car to a farmer's market oh yeah exactly and you wake up and you go oh my god thank god it didn't happen yeah and but but the farmer's market is this Saturday what if i but basically you've been you've been hanging out with someone who has been in the stage of going like

Jesus Christ, I hope I wake up soon because this is awful. I've actually asked him, like, does this all feel like a dream? And he's been like, he's actually said things like the past like five years have felt like a dream. Oh, I'm sure. Like the rise and the lows. Sure. And I think it's psychologically really interesting, honestly. So like it's not like I'm just looking at Sam as like a fucking like psychological case to pick apart.

But like I've never met anyone that's gone through any of this. So I find it personally fascinating. And that's why I'm still covering it. Like honestly, I'm not covering it at this point on social media because I think it's like a hot news topic. I mean, the story's kind of dead. He was already convicted. When I posted that photo, the prison photo, I didn't actually realize it was going to go that viral. I kind of was like, people don't really care about this case anymore.

I thought it was going to get like a lot of views or whatever, but I didn't think it was going to go like crazy. But yeah, I'm covering it because I'm still interested in it. And so I'd still talk to him even if he was like, you got to stop talking about this or if I couldn't talk about it. Can you visit him at MDC? He's, I don't think currently getting any visitors that aren't his parents or his lawyers. but I mean I hope that we're still on good enough terms after prison because I would be really interested in like how he's feeling and doing and yeah I don't know I see this kind of stuff does get me some backlash like people are going to be like you are naive like think that I completely believe him or believe that he's innocent or I've also gotten well since some people know that I've lost money to another crypto collapse people like you're friends with Sam so you have Stockholm syndrome I'm like that's also not the definition of Stockholm syndrome but you also don't think he's innocent I think you think maybe that's That's the thing. I mean, like, I've been trying to understand if I actually see him as a malicious evil person. And I think there are some truly malicious evil people out there who do set out to harm others for their own personal gain. And I just don't see him that way. Does that mean he's legally innocent? No. But I don't think he's like the kind of person who actually set out to harm others so that he could buy a super yacht. I think it's, I think criminal negligence is a big part of it. And I do think, yeah, there was obviously some like, I think it's pretty well documented, like intent to deceive his investors and the public.

I think that's the problem, right? Like, I think it's easy to be like, oh, he didn't mean anything bad by it. But yes, that neglect for any kind of duty of care for, you know, the people's money he's taking and stuff like that. You're just like, fuck this guy. Yeah, I think it's appropriate. And that that mindset is so pervasive in so many in the financial sector that it's, it's awful it's not um i don't think a lot of those guys a lot of those guys are like oh i want to fuck people over today i want to go into the office and just like fuck people shit up they want to

they want to they want to make money and they want to take big bets and they want to they want to get they want to have more money to play with yeah i think that's true uh i think someone like him i i and this is what i predict will happen he'll probably get 20 to 25 years and they'll plead it down or he'll get out in 15 on good behavior or something like that and then obviously he'll be barred for life from ever trading securities and things like that that punishment sounds vaguely fair to me i mean i just don't see a need for a life sentence but like i mean up to a 115 years so obviously like i don't know anything close to that number is just life but uh 2025 seems fair to me we'll find out in a couple weeks yeah so does he think does he really feel

like, oh, all my friends, all the people who testified against him, he doesn't, he still doesn't feel like he did anything wrong. He's just like, oh, they turned on me to save their own asses. I mean, I feel like he generally feels sort of understanding of people testifying against him. He's like, oh, yeah, they need to save their own asses. Even when I posted that, um, the, the political donations thing and he got in trouble, he was just like, oh, it's okay. He's a very, like, kind of understanding person. So I feel like he wasn't like necessarily mad that people testified against him. He sounds like a very strange dude. he's a strange

He's a strange He's incredibly strange I watched the the whole G-lock video and just his description of Sam you're like oh he's a very weird guy

like he talks about his sense of humor and stuff that he doesn't really crack jokes he'll occasionally kind of just I don't know kind of politely laugh but other than that

he's like I've heard Sam laugh genuinely a few times but he has like kind of like dirty sick sense of humor which I think is kind of funny like I mean he was in a

he was in a polycule and those kind of people strike me as, oh yeah, did you guys ever talk about that? I don't think he was really in a polycule. Okay, he told me... What? Okay. Interesting.

He told me... That's like one of the most damning pieces of gossip out there. That's the real fraud. Yeah, that's the real fraud. He told me that a bunch of people who were living in that Bahamian apartment like Caroline Ellison and all of them, a couple of them were previously polyamorous

prior to arriving in, prior to working at FTX but that when they were living in that apartment that they were all coupled up so like he was with Caroline Ellison but I was like so did you have orgies he's like oh no never like he's never had an orgy and I

I kind of believe him I mean I've asked him about that stuff a lot like I don't think that they were they were in a polychle at that time I think that a lot of them were polyamorous like Caroline Ellison has written about polyamory so apparently that's where the rumor started on her on her blog she had written about

polyamory before oh man i love those days just pouring through that tumbler i mean just that was insane that it that was insane can you do can you uh give us a little taste of how his laugh sounds can you do a good impression of it oh my god what does his laugh sound like i'm guessing i'm guessing i'm guessing is ha ha i have no idea i feel like it sounds like like when you'd write h-e-h like is it a he-he-he-he-he or he-ha-ha I feel like it's like he-ha-ha-ha I don't know you do hear him laugh really infrequently it's mostly like really sick humor like really sick jokes like I did yeah what was okay red flag I have sick humor though so I don't know he seems very nine gag coded you know what I'm talking about like an immature sense of humor yeah I could see that

so my favorite I just want to share a couple from the Geelock interview, just on the topic of his life sentence, going up against potential life sentence. I love how he said, how can you give someone, he talks about how Sam can't make eye contact. And he said, how can you give someone life who can't even make eye contact with you? And I thought that that was profound. It's kind of profound. He's on to something.

Like, how can you give someone life? He can't even look you in the eyes. And then he said, he didn't know what he was doing was elite. legal, which is a good defense. Which is a good defense. His lawyer should have tried that. I really did. Man, G-Lock seems fun.

Wait, you live in New York, right? I'm moving. I moved there on and off. Like, every few months I go back to New York. I was going to say, you must be able to hang out with him all the time. I just hung out with him like last week. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Okay. What do you guys do? I'm a new criminal buddy. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to get him a new. I'm trying to get him a laptop. I do feel bad for him.

I mean, he's an ex-convict. He got into gangs when he was 13 years old. He grew up in the Bronx and the projects or something. I don't know too much about that life, to be totally honest. But he got into gang when he was 13, and he's like been in and out of jail since then. And, I mean, he says he wants to turn his life around. I'm not going to vouch for whether or not that's true. But I hope that he's able to at least have the resources of having like a fucking laptop to actually work from and stuff like that.

So I'm trying to get him a laptop. You could write a book about his time in jail with. Tuesdays with Sam? Tuesdays with Sam. Yeah. Well, and yeah, and then he was talking about the, I know that he was just saying a lot. Well, it's already out there, but he was talking about how Sam's best friend. Sam's best friend is a, as a, wait, also he said one of his friends in jail is the president of Honduras.

Oh, apparently the president of Honduras is just in jail with them. Yeah. He just, he casually mentioned, he's like, oh yeah, his best friend is a, is a pedophile cop from. here in New York and then the president of Honduras I'm like what the fuck what is he what is he in there for I actually haven't looked that one up

I should look that one up yeah I don't know and he's helping him do legal work Oh I think it had something to do with helping like cartel members or something like that Yeah something like that Well Sam is giving people investment advice Which I don't know if that's uh that feels like Maybe don't take that guy's advice

I think that he probably still has good ideas, especially in the crypto space, man, I'd pay a nickel to hear his advice. Hey, honestly, some of his investments that he made, like those illiquid investments that kind of like led to the demise of FTX are now doing pretty well. It's like Anthropic. Anthropics is now doing pretty well. Do you know any others? Salana, I think, is kind of come back. Salonah's up. Salon is up. Yeah. So honestly, a lot of his investments are doing well. I don't know if I'd take all of his investment advice either, but some of them are not doing too badly. Yeah. So, Are all of his personal bank accounts just fully zeroed out?

Or are they frozen or what? Sam sent me a, he sent me a screenshot of his bank account and it had $200,000 in it. But I'm also kind of like, I'm not going to vouch and say that's his only bank account as like a multi-billionaire. I'm kind of like, I don't know. This guy's an open book. There's just fucking, what is going on? I mean, at this point, why wouldn't you be? He's already, it's already done, right?

He's just waiting for sentencing. Yeah, he's waiting for sentencing. Yeah. I mean, just to have a modicum of privacy. your fucking life is being destroyed i know it was shocking to me too i mean he claimed because i was like sam you probably shouldn't be talking so much but he was like well you know they tell that to people because they're worried that their stories won't line up with the truth but i'm just telling the truth so i mean like yeah the truth doesn't look good i know i'm like it doesn't

bad sam yeah oh lord oh lord jesus so according to glock he's eating about a dozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches a day and he's addicted to an iPad game named Shattered pixel dungeon Shattered pixel dungeon. Shattered pixel dungeon. Yes. Yeah. So I'm just imagining Sam just munching down on PB&Js and just playing on a night. Like he's basically living every six year old's dream. He's like a teenager. I mean, that's like basically what he was doing when I'd visit him on house arrest. Like he was literally just constantly playing. Like sometimes when I'd be talking to him, he'd just turn around and start playing legal engines. And I'm like, I'm fucking kidding me.

I'm right here, Sam. Oh, that's like the exact story of when he was in the meetings at, like, at maybe Jane Street or whatever. Oh, yeah, he did do that. He did do that, apparently. Jesus Christ. In another life, he could have been a great person to be on love on the spectrum. I know. He could have been such a great.

It's a missed opportunity. Do you know if he's getting any kind of romantic fan mail? Like, you know how they would, like Charlie Manson? Not that he's told me and not that I've heard from any of the inmates. Oh, bummer. You know, I'm surprised. I feel like some. some girls should find an attractive. There's some SBF girlies out there.

I know, where the SBF girlies at? The Sarnayev brothers, the Boston Marathon bombers had like entire. Dude, Charles Manson got married. I know. Oh, sure. I wonder if it's like, do women just like the violent criminals? Maybe that's what it's too dorky. Because maybe they're looking for a bad boy. They're looking for a bad boy. Yeah, and Sam is not a protector. But Sam, they could at least get some investment advice. That's true. What they want? They want excitement. They want, making a little bit of cash on the side. They want a guy who's going to carve a swastika into his forehead. Yeah, I guess.

Oh, my God. We do want that. That's what every woman wants. They want an unpredictable guy who is going to put out some bad music and maybe carve a swastika. He is unpredictable. Yeah. He's predictably unpredictable.

Kind of like me. Where you know you're always going to get something stupid coming out of my dipshit mouth. Good to publicly prepare yourself to San Bakeman Fried. Oh, yeah. Wait, so how are you talking to him? Is it just phone calls? through.

How does this work? Oh, I haven't had any phone calls with him. I mean, I'm not going to talk about any of the content of our conversations. But, um, oh, is it email? Email. Yeah. Okay. What's his email address?

Or, I mean, is it like at MDC Brooklyn? Like, what's the, what's the tag? It's like a different, it's like through a different app. Okay. I'm, yeah, I don't know. I'm just asking generally, how does one communicate with someone in prison? So generally, one communicates. someone they have to like add you to their email list so i had to like accept or deny not that

i did either i'm not going to talk about it but um yeah so it's like a different app like it's a different website that's just to contact prison mail i guess yeah email okay okay and then if he wants to call you you you you just get like that automated thing yeah yeah you're you're receiving a call from an inmate number, Sam Bankman, at NBC Brooklyn. And then you accept and then you go. It's Sam. Yeah, it's Sam. That wasn't too bad an impression.

Yeah, all we need now is a really dry mouth. Well, I think you can really only accomplish that from your 30th peanut butter and jelly sandwich. That's how he gets that voice. I wonder if he, like, well, I guess you can't smoke in prison anymore. But at that point, I would just say, fuck it. I'm going to try to die from cigarettes. I would just smoke. Well, you got to wait until your sentencing comes down first.

Yeah, yeah, true. Sam like doesn't do recreational drugs. I mean, he does take Adderall and M-Sam for depression, but I remember I tried to get him to take ecstasy once and he... You tried to... What the fuck? How did you skip that part, Tiffany? You tried to fucking get Sam to take ecstasy?

Where? At his parents' house? At his parents' house. I didn't actually have it on me. Listen, government. I didn't actually have ecstasy on me. They don't care. We're talking about it.

Government. Okay. Yeah, I didn't actually have ecstasycy on me. to see on me. No, we were just, well, it was sort of an emotional conversation because Sam just he's, he's told me that he doesn't really feel the emotion happiness. Like, he's never felt happiness and he doesn't know what feels like. We're like, I know just the thing. We've let psychotic nerds run everything. That, I'm not joking. We are at the whim of just wounded men who have never felt happiness. And now we are, we are paying for it. That's true. And we've told them

that they are the greatest and geniuses and they are our saviors and that was the closest they've ever come to happiness and now we're... All they needed to do is carve a swastika

into their forehead and then women will be all over but instead they commit Okay so he's told you that he is not You're just telling me he doesn't feel happiness I don't mean to make fun of him for that because I feel like I don't quite sad for that

and he does struggle with like depression and stuff like that but yeah he said he'd never felt the emotion and happiness before so I was like maybe if you want to try ecstasy you could feel happiness but um he was like no i was like maybe we could try ecstasy and then he was like i don't think i should do anything illegal right now so he turned me down because oh that's the

that's where he draws the line i know i know i know um i did try though i thought that would have been a funny that would have been a funny experience that would have been incredible it would have been amazing the shit that would come out of his mouth when he's on fucking molly oh god oh i would have loved to have taken molly with that would have been one hell of uh um the headline. I took Molly with SBF. Yeah. That would have been funny. Then his parents really wouldn't like you. Oh yeah. They already hate me. Yeah.

How did you get to go to the White House Christmas party? Oh, that was, that all happened before I even got in contact with Sam. It was just when I started covering Celsius and I didn't even have that big of a following or anything. But, um, so I just got a random email that said invite to the White House Christmas party. I was like, this is a fucking scam. That was Biden. He typed it wrong. He's a bit. Where the fuck is our invite. He's a bit out to lunch.

I know. No. So like, Tiffany, I want you to come. I'm having a lunch. I want you to come. I'm having a lunch. Wait, it was a lunch? No, it was a Christmas party. Yeah, okay.

But it was some guy claiming that he wanted to bring me to the White House Christmas party. And I was like, this is a scam. So I responded, this is a scam. This feels like a ploy to kidnap me. If this is not a scam or a ploy to kidnap me, send me a photo immediately of you taking a selfie with your government ID, holding up three fingers. Send me, I made him send me a whole list of things.

I was like, send me a picture at the last Christmas party, send me a picture of X, Y, and Z, like, oh, send me an email from your dot-gov email address. Did all those things in a snap. So I was like, oh, this is legit. So it was some secret service, presidential secret service office member. What? Was he hidden on you or something? I think that was his intent, but I straight forwardly said, hey.

But you're an adult. I think you know. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah. I think that was his intent. But I told him up front, I was like, hey, no funny business. Yeah. I'm seeing someone.

I wasn't even seeing someone. I just wanted to protect myself. But I was like, I have a boyfriend. And so if you want anything romantic, bring someone else. But if you're okay with me just coming and eating the free food and drinking the free alcohol, I will come. And he said, yes, that's fine. How was the food?

It was excellent. Really? Yeah, I feel like there was like lamb and like crab legs. I mean, it was just like a fucking buffet. So it's as good as like a fucking casino buffet. Are there? Did you get screened like multiple times? Oh yeah.

They had to background check me. I have a clean record. And what else they have to do? Yeah, there's a lot of security getting in. But I think they had to do a pretty intense background check on me. Do you, would you feel confident that you could have smuggled something into the White House? I probably could have. Really?

You could have gotten ecstasy into the White House? I probably could have smuggled it. Totally. I'm thinking like weapons. I know. I think I made, when they found like white substance at the White House, I was like, I'm so sorry for that. Oh, oh, ooh. No, what's that?

I did tweet about that. I was like, sorry, that was me. Oh, okay. Could it have been you? It probably could have been. Joe Biden was telling you he's never felt happiness and you were like, look. Joe, listen. We could do something about this.

Did you meet Joe Biden at that party? We did. I did. So we have that picture together. Yeah. Did he really smell your hair? No, he didn't smell my hair, sadly. I'm too old.

Oh, God. But, no. But, no, I mean, everyone who gets invited to the White House Christmas party apparently gets to take a picture with Biden. So it wasn't like he came up to me and was like you. I must speak to you. You, I must speak to you. Yeah. How did he look and seem?

Did it feel like you were like, oh, this is a senile old man? Oh, yeah. He looked waxy. He looked wet for some reason. I'm like, why are you moist right now? Yeah. It looked like he had been covered, like a glazed, like a glazed donut. I bet it was just hot.

I did give him next to you. He said, I'm peaking right now. I'm peaking right now. He had his jaws, you know. Was he, uh, I'm speaking. I'm finally feeling happiness. Did he, uh, I wonder if it was like his makeup melting off.

That's what it felt like. It seemed like sweaty makeup job, but he looked like a little glazed donut. It was disgusting. Oh, God. Yeah. Can you imagine? Yeah.

Not great. And he just said that the secret to his happy marriage with Jill Biden is having sex. Oh, did he? Yeah, good sex. Oh. Yeah. I don't want to know that. I don't believe him.

I don't believe. I think good sex would maybe kill that man. Oh, I think so, too. Yeah. How are the bathrooms? And I know people are probably going to be like, Like Ben's always bringing up toilets, and here goes another. Do you have fixation?

No, I don't. He does. He does. He does. But how were the bathrooms? Oh, you really wants to know how the bathroom is. I swear to God, this is the first time I've ever asked this. How are the bathroom?

How were the bathrooms? Yeah. They were nice. And they were nice. They had all the napkins said, like, president of the United States. So I definitely pocketed some napkins. Sure. Of course.

So, yeah, otherwise, I don't know, like marble. I mean, the place, it's kind of old. They could use a remodel. They could use a remodel. We could redo the White House. Just not going to. down do it over again it were you able to explore other parts of the white house yeah i got to go in a all the all the all the rooms that were open the the presidential

secret service guy showed me showed me around oh wow and he didn't creep on me so it was nice he was respectful great i just uh i'm i'm fascinated by um things like national security especially at the white house while the president's there it's like man if somebody wanted to they could do so many things I know I mean I did have to go through like a metal detector and stuff like that but it's not like they like padded me down or like

Yeah you could have a plastic knife Yeah am I gonna get in trouble for a sake I don't know no that's fine that's normal No it's assumed that you get patted down Yeah and all that stuff and wanded They didn't do anything too much stuff that's scanning your body That you don't even know about That's like doing a heat thing or whatever

Maybe that's true Yeah that's true See I mean they gotta they gotta keep It's the most important person in the world That's true that's true dang I wonder what else

I think that's yeah I feel like we got most of it yeah do you feel like we left anything out is there anything from this whole debacle yeah because we almost left out

the fact that you almost did Molly with Sam Bacon Fried so please let us know I guess I wanted to I wanted to commend you for it it reminds me of us

a little bit in that we've kind of had a non-traditional trajectory. I love when someone compliments someone and they go, you know, it reminds me. I want to give you this compliment. But you're in the same kind of wheelhouse world where you didn't intend to set out to do this and now look at you and you've just like,

well, now I'm going on this path in this direction and look where it's taking you. Yeah, it's been wild. I mean, and I feel like I've risked my life a few times meeting up with these gang members and whatnot. But it's been interesting. Did you have anyone with you when you were doing that? No.

For sure. I was a nervous. I started it off. We started off doing like a video chat because I was like this guy looks fucking scary. And he has face tattoos and whatever. And it just kept going in and out of service. And I was in New York and I was like, okay, listen, you can come over and we'll see what happens. Risking my life for the interview.

But I felt so bad when he came over, he was like, I was nervous that you wanted to do it online and not in person because of my, face tattoos and I thought you were judging me. And I was like, oh, no, it wasn't the face tattoos. He seems incredibly sweet. Yeah, he really does. Yeah. And a good sense of humor. Unless the face tattoos and maybe the violent crime.

Maybe it was the violent crime. Yeah. It was probably the violent crime. Yeah. But was it murder? I think you mentioned. I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it. Oh, yeah.

I don't know. But I know he had gun charges. Yeah. Yeah. Who doesn't? Who doesn't? Yeah. Me, I got like, I don't even lie.

I lost count of how many guns I got, how many gun charges are pending. The gun charge will just keep piling up. Yeah, they just keep piling up. Well, I just love them so much. We all do. Yeah. Oh, man. I can't wait to go home and shoot one right near the floor.

I can't wait to go shoot one. Yeah. Well, my downstairs neighbor just moved out, so she's not going to be home. She won't be bothered by me shooting my gun. Because usually when she's home and I shoot my gun into the floor, she hits her a bit. Uh, anyway, huh. Well, Tiffany, is there anything you want to plug? Yeah, plug away.

Um, yeah, I guess I'm on YouTube at Tiffany Fong. I'm on Twitter at Tiffany Fong with one underscore. I guess if you just look up Tiffany Fong on YouTube, Instagram, whatever. Yeah, Google. Yeah. YouTube, Twitch. Oh, Twitter. You do Twitch?

I've been, well, I don't even really know how to Twitch. I don't game or anything. I've just been going on and, like, responding to people's questions. But it's kind of fun. Yeah. I like it. Find her. Find me.

Find me. Find me. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Great. And gang, we'll see you in the bonus, Ben and Emile Show.com. We're going to be talking about Biden having sex and all sorts of fun stuff. I don't even remember because I don't have my laptop open, but it'll be fun.

It's going to be great. It'll be good. Okay. Bye. Bye.