The Ben and Emil Show - PP Episode 11: Why everything feels bad right now ft. Kyla Scanlon

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Kyla Scanlon is a writer, financial analyst, podcaster, video creator, and all around wizard at breaking down the complexities of the economy and the financial world we're all stuck in. We talk about why the vibes out there are so rough despite the data showing things are pretty much better than ever, why optimism > pessimism, and where things go from here. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wow. Boy, folks, you just missed it. We were just going off, absolutely going off about caffeine. Yes, calcium. Welcome back to this week's episode of three people co-working at a cafe. Oh, God, I can't do that. I can't co-work. No, but it just looks like that. No, I know. You couldn't catch me at a co-working space doing a cafe thing. I'd like to try to sell something to you. There are missions, there are bigots, there are no risks, there is the best. Details, I think about it, landmarks, waves, rules, pounds, and sex, sex, sex, sex.

The number of the same, call it in corporations. The world is a myth. I have seen the phase of God You were saying that energy Or not energy Energy drink stocks Were some of the best performing ones I only thought of Celsius

Yeah well there's Monster Yeah I mean that's one of the top performers Of the last 20 years Yeah People love their caffeine Yeah Yeah not me I can't handle it

Yeah he gets He gets scared and starts crying To the point where he'll be in Greece literally with his brother and his brother will be like you need to calm down and stop drinking you're ruining the trip for everybody oh no were you really ruined no no no no everyone was fine i was just like i i i'm carrying around this horrible fear that burden everywhere we go even though we are on greek islands that fear is what that fear is what creates is is what powers civilization i had my first real experience with caffeine was when i took the SATs oh yeah and i did

not ever really drink coffee and I thought you know what I'm going to drink some coffee before this thing and it was a huge mistake all it did was give me the worst bubble guts so I'm sitting there yurgling oh yeah and it was so quite and I felt bad for the people around me because my stomach was just going and I'm just thinking not only is it embarrassing because everybody knows I've got a shit but it's disruptive you know what my score ended up being this is back in the old SAT 1600 it was like 1080 what was that out of that out of 1600 oh i got like a d the equivalent of a D on my SATs but look at me now mom well do you still drink caffeine oh do I still drink caffeine oh I can't have Diet Coke anymore why because I like it too much oh you can't have

Out of, like, you're denying yourself? Because I have addictive personality. Oh, man. What else are you addicted to? Coffee? Yeah. Okay, straight up black ice coffee. Yeah, an exercise.

You're addicted to exercise? Yeah. I'm addicted to exercise. Yeah. Do you think that you are orthorexic? No, no. I just endorphin junkie. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you go crazy on the bike. On the bike, yeah. Yeah. No, it's super fun. Three inch miles a week. Three.

100 miles a week you should have just biked here why didn't you fly no i i was thinking like i do do that trip one day like biking russ u.s i think it would be fun i tried to do that from santa barbara down to here and it was an utter disaster failure what happened uh first of all the amtrak we took the train up there and they don't stop for more than 20 seconds at their train stop oh really it's like the subway and my two friends and I had our bikes and all of our gear and the train stops and the conductor gets off. One of the conductors gets off and he goes, oh yeah, you guys got to walk your bikes down to the luggage car.

And we said, okay, so we start walking down and he's looking around and he gets back on the train. And as we're walking down towards the luggage car, the train leaves. And it's like, why did he not say, yeah, hang on. There's people about to get on. So we had to wait, like, it backtracked us. It pushed us back by like six hours. So we arrived in Santa Barbara at night, had to find our camping site at night and like set up tents.

So then we got a late start in the morning. And then what ended up happening was one of one of my friends got blown off the road by an 18 wheeler. Just the wind took her off. And she fell and cracked her her helmet. And we had to we had to just, we covered like 90 miles. And then we had to. We just said. Awful.

Yeah. It was dangerous. I wasn't wearing a helmet. I was reckless. I remember ripping it in top gear. I had the clip-ons and I was in top gear going down this hill just like just going probably 40 miles an hour with no shirt on either. Oh no. You could have gotten all sorts of pain.

Rayon mode, yeah. But it was real smooth. It was in like Montecito. Yeah. Probably ripped past Oprah's house. Anyway, we have a- We should probably introduce. Yeah, who are you?

The first guest of the first guest. of the paypigs. Such an honor. Well, I think there would have been riots if you weren't at first guest. Really? You are by far our most requested. Really? Yes.

Constantly. Even me and Ben will just be yammering on about whatever and people are like, I want Kyla. Amazing. We say, what about us? It doesn't matter. Yeah. Oh, happy to. And here she is.

Kyla Scanlan. Yeah, sure. Introduce yourself. I feel like a lot of people. people know her but yeah she's a um she's a very popular economic yeah how would you define yourself a financial creator oh yeah i've been saying i've been saying author educator creator so i'm trying i don't know if i can call myself an author somebody got mad at me why because they're like your book's not published oh my god so we're allowed to talk about the book yeah oh okay yeah

yeah it's public news amazing she's got a book coming out in april 2024 so you're a pre-author about to be author but the books is done it's in transmittal right now how many pages is it about 300 damn perfect size for a book thanks absolutely is it paperback paperback and hardcover yeah right

man this guy's really nuts why because he loves books this boy reads that's good yeah books are good yeah we were talking about my book cover earlier too yeah he's giving me good advice who did it me

you did the cover well we're That's actually still, like, in process, but... Actually, the public can't talk about the cover. You can't call yourself a graphic designer yet either. No, I don't think graphic designers would appreciate that. Yeah. And, like, in Canva. You get a lot of hate on the internet, don't you?

I mean, we'll talk about that. No, no, I don't need hate. Well, because we were talking about how... Everybody hates you. No, no, you get a lot of, you get a lot of... We brought me here today to talk about how everyone thinks you fucking suck. That's not what I meant. Fuck!

About how there's a lot of... There's a lot of people who, who like to tell you that they think you're wrong. Yeah, there's a lot of that. As we were just getting set up. Of course, yeah. Yeah, you seem to get a lot of love on the internet.

Yeah. I would hope that the nice people outweigh the bad. Yeah, I just think, I mean, you all know, like the bad people. Well, bad is subjective, but like, you know, the loud people are allowed. Yes. All it takes for me is one negative comment to overpower 20 positive ones. I don't see, I see the one negative. And you're just like, oh, this person is exactly right.

This person's right about me. I know that I do so. I want, I do want to get into that how it. The hatred. Well, not the hatred, but just the getting pushback and being, being someone who, no, no, no. Because that, shut up. We will get into that because it is a shared experience. is what I'm getting at.

And it also, it says something, but I can't quite pin it down what it says and who it said. Because it's mostly like boomers. We're laughing at him on a squeaky chair. Oh, oh, yeah. No, that's great, dude. Move, move first?

Yeah, cool. It's okay. Sound off in the comments if you can hear the squeaky chair and it bothers you. Yeah. Okay, so your book is coming. Let's plug the book first. We'll still come back when the book comes down.

Yes, but we want people to prepare and like pre-order it, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Go pre-order the book. It'll be up soon. It'll be up soon. Can I get an advanced copy? Yeah.

All the galley. Wait, there's going to be like a basic and an advanced version? No, no, no. When is. That was crazy. So, wait, when did it come out? April, 2024. Oh, shit.

Wow, okay. Now, how does that work? So the title of the book is what? In this economy. In this economy. And it's all about, I'm assuming it's about vibes. Well, it's really about, like, the economy and just inflation in the labor market. The Federal Reserve is a big part of it, too. So just walking people through the basics of the economy, and it's meant to be like an introductory guide. Yeah. But also be fun to read. And then at the end, it's like a discussion of solutions and like how you can make systems work better, policy decisions that could happen, things like that. we would love that um and there's a lot of illustrations you've done too to drive these points home yeah that's really helpful you're doing you're doing god's work you're doing god's work you're doing

god you're doing what we initially set out to do which was to make this otherwise very convoluted world dense boring world entertaining yeah and applicable to people's everyday lives yeah exactly which uh brings us into vibes i think because That was the big thing that we are sort of pre-production texts, if you want to call it that. I feel like we were all pretty excited to talk about the disparity between the data that says that everything is good and booming and just on the cusp of being better than ever. And yet there's the vibe out there that feels like it's anything but. and it's a weird it's a weird it's weird because depending on where you look weird again it's weird it's weird depending on where you look and what the algorithm feeds you things are either yeah better

than ever or just about to completely collapse yeah and I'm talking about fucking Sven what's his name Henry oh yeah he has me blocked on Twitter he blocked me years ago zero hedge yeah the demerism. Yeah, those guys who were just constantly. But so a big part of what you've been, you've almost like coined the term yourself is. The vibe session. I did coin that term.

Yes. Yeah. So can you elucidate on like what you, how do you define a vibe session? So it's really based on sentiment. So it's like a temporary decline in sentiment despite the economic data saying that things are okay. So it's trying to point to like human driving the economy.

because people are like the underlying force of the economy right so like consumer spending is 70% of GDP you know so how people feel matters how they spend and so the whole idea is like we really need to pay attention to how people are feeling and like how they're responding to certain economic data points and I think there's like a whole conversation about how like the economic data that we look at isn't always reflective of reality like you were saying like I don't know if some of the numbers really matter for describing like how the average person is experienced. their day to day. But it's, like, super tough. There's, like, a lot of debate on Twitter about it because the tough part about it is, like, it could be way worse. And, like, but if you say that to somebody, it's like, well, whatever, like, I feel bad right now. And so that's the really tough part about it is, like, the economy should be a lot worse than it is. The labor market honestly should be in shambles based on how fast the Federal Reserve has raised rates in order to tame inflation. The fact that we had like immaculate disinflation, which is inflation going down a lot without a lot of pain in the labor market or for anybody in particular really. Like the biggest

impact that we saw to the labor market was tech and finance. Like every other industry is pretty much booming. But it still feels bad because of cost of living, because of the housing crisis, because of different policy measures. And then I think there's just a lot of doomism. And then this will be my final point but like there's this idea too that I think that people feel like they have to project or show anxiety because if you're not showing that it means you don't care and so the only way that you can signal that you care is by showing that you're worried and by maybe saying like well things can't be okay they're not okay um and there's also a protectionist measure to that too like if you're like oh things are not fine then if they end up not being fine you didn't get your hopes up you know

Yeah. I also, I feel like any time, not from an economic standpoint, but any time that I've just personally been feeling good and enjoying my life and being on an upswing and feeling happy. Oh, awesome. The lawnmower guy's going. But we know that they can't hear it. I refrain from saying anything about that because, like on Twitter or on Instagram, talking about how. Because who knows what tragedy may have just occurred. Who knows who may have just gotten laid off? Who knows what injustice has just occurred this week or is part of the general conversation? There seems to be, yeah, this shame and guilt around feeling optimistic and feeling positive, whether it's in your own bubble or, yeah, on a macro scale. But I think this time is unique, right, in the sense that even though economic indicators say things are good, people have the negative sentiment of time, like 2008, when things were actually

really bad. So I think that's when it's like, why do people feel uniquely bad right now, even though economic indicators say they should be feeling much more positively about it? And what? I was going to ask, do you think that it's kind of how, do you think it's sort of akin to the wall of worry that a bull market is said to climb like it doesn't feel good as it's going it doesn't feel like it should everything should just be going up and up and that's just because that's that's the way that it works there's an uncertainty but that uncertainty is just what kind of keeps everybody you know what i'm talking about like people feel like they have to be

uncertain even if yeah i i guess i'm i'm looking at it through the rather narrow lens of just the stock market itself and not anything else, which is, yeah, that the old adage that stock market is not the economy. Yeah. Yeah. And just that, yeah, a bull market climbs a wall of worry. But to what you were saying. Well, I'll tell you what.

I mean, because I knew Kyle was coming on, I've been thinking about it and like listening to these. Well, just like listening to people talk about it and stuff like that. And I mean, you talked about it a little bit just now, but I think people want to. differentiate between like all things considered things are pretty good but i don't think people are i mean your average person is not going like well it could be a lot worse you need to you need to think about all of these things and not only that i think you know they're comparing this to 2008 i think since that time period uh i don't know the like political landscape and um emotional landscape of people's financial well-being has completely changed in a way that and then I mean when you

go forward a couple more just election cycles like from 2016 on even politicians were talking about things differently in a way that like they didn't before I mean in 2016 you had Donald Trump who was talking about it in a very abrasive way but was still kind of stirring up you know worker sentiment and then you had Bernie Sam talking about it in a very different way. And those things have only kind of ramped up. And I think people have now all of these things very front of mind every day. Because it's social media?

Social media. And I think they've just become aware of, I mean, I think before 2008, I think people were very willing to accept things as like, this is how America is run. and you know you need to swallow that pill i think there's been a lack of hope do you think that's what it is uh i think there is a lack of hope but i think people at least understand that like oh it doesn't have to be like this and i wish it wasn't like this and so people you know and i think it is very political i think a lot of this like i think if you go down

people's, the way they feel about the economy is going to be linked to how they vote. I think. And like who's in charge? Yes. Right now, Republicans would feel pretty shitting. Well, you can see that in the, the infib, which is the National Federation of Small Businesses or something like that. You can see their sentiment fluctuates based on who's in office, yeah. Right.

And so, but not only that, like, I think people have gotten to a point where, like, so saying things, all things considered are pretty good. I don't know how much that means for, like, the average person when, like, things are still very bad. I mean, for example, like, the inflation thing. Everyone wants to point to now that inflation has come down, right? It was out of control. It was hitting, like, 9, 10%. And now we're seeing it at, like, 2 to 3%. That's, like, good news for everyone and everyone should be celebrating.

But at the same time, prices are still going up just at a much slower rate. So, and they're not going to come down. So things are still way more expensive than they were just a couple of years ago. And people are still going to feel that. And that is, like, that is directly impacting rent. And, you know, I think it's like we're, what is the number? We are, this was from Bloomberg. US rent just $16 shy of record as shelter cost drive July inflation.

Yeah, rent was 90% of July inflation. So, you know, I mean, we live in L.A. There's a housing crisis here, obviously. It's, like, harder and harder to find a place to live that you can afford. And all new construction not only looks like shit, but it's like three grand for a studio apartment. It's ridiculous. So, you know, that's just, it's just like it's all, you know, we talk about, I like your point about the strike stuff where you talk about, like, have sometimes things that, that might. seem bad are good things and I like I agree it's nice when you see these labor actions happening

like the UPS thing where they're winning a better contract and that's the result of a hot labor market where they feel they can do these things without um because management knows it they have to respond right which is great but at the same time like we still live in a like so that's great but then you're like but we still live in a country with like very few labor protections um and And, like, you know, you have to fight because you're not going to get any support from the federal government. And even the few labor protections we have, they're not going to be seriously enforced. Yeah, I don't know.

I think people are just becoming aware of all of this and are maybe like acutely aware of what it means to, like, live in a world where there's zero safety net. And it's hard to like, I don't know. It's hard to hear. I was reading, like, Paul Krugman and Robert Reish be like, who are guys? I don't have any real issue with, but it's sometimes that, like, Democratic with a capital D talk that makes me feel a little crazy. It's like when they pass the Affordable Care Act, it's like everyone's lives are different

now. We did it. Like, you know, we fixed it. It's like, no, you didn't. You, you know, forced me to get health care from these private insurance. companies and they'll unaffordable and if I don't do it I have to pay a huge tax

but I don't know they talk about it as if we've made these monumental changes to people's lives but I don't think people material feel materially feel that yeah yeah I don't know so I think when everyone's talking about it I'm like this kind of makes sense to me

it doesn't feel yeah I can I can understand why it wouldn't feel good I mean like I didn't even mention health care but it's like yeah everyone lives, every American lives with that daily. I mean, there's a, you grab that, right on that paper. I just, no one can figure out the American,

look at this, I just got a, don't show my address. This came in the mail yesterday for, what is that? A bill for $3,045 from an urgent care clinic. And what did you do? I had no idea. And of course, there's no, there's no item. that just says new charges. You just have to call them and get that broken down.

I called this morning. I owe $80. But like that's, I mean, my night was like ruined last night. I was like, my life is over. I owe UCLA Medical Center $3,000. And so I don't know. It's like it's hard for me to imagine a world in which people start feeling optimistic about this lot without like real systemic changes. unless you're drawing it down like political lines

where you know you are like happy that you're guy because that I think that is a problem I think Democrats might have a framing issue when they're like when everyone's saying oh the economy is so bad but by all accounts Biden seems to be bouncing the economy back in a

yeah physical policy is a big driver yeah sorry I feel like I've been talking for a while it is a podcast But no, I've just been thinking about, I mean, student loans are about to be turned back on. And, like, that's not an anecdotal. That's, that's, that's like 45 million people who are going to get hit with the hundreds of dollars. I just read a Bank of America thing this morning where they said, it's not going to be that big of a deal, though. No, it will be.

Yeah. It'll be a big hit to income. Yep. Yeah. And it is also seeing the, the credit, Americans credit, hitting the trillion dollars. mark. I saw that adjusted for inflation, it's actually 20% below that. And some people consider it a negative. I don't know how to feel about it. I feel like it's a bit of a positive actually. People are, like you said, they feel good. They're spending money. And it's not

necessarily that they're like panicking and going out and buying a big screen TV. Although I am curious to see targets earnings this week and Walmart. I mean, by the time this comes out, it'll have already come and gone, but yeah, I think that there's, I'd like to hear a little bit more about, so what, what do you think, I guess, what is your gauge, what, what temperature are you getting from, from the vibes out there? Because there is that juxtaposition between the vibes, the contrast between the vibes and the actual data. Yeah, I mean, it's really tough.

So I would say, like, most people are feeling pretty bad. So, like you were saying, I think. there's a lot of worries about health care. There's a lot of worries about housing. I say that wrong. Housing. I don't know. I felt that out the other day.

Did someone leave a comment and say, also, you say things. No, like, I made a video about housing in Minnesota because Minnesota has built a lot of affordable housing and, like, subsidized rents for a lot of people. Yeah. And apparently I say that word wrong. Tomato. Yeah, I know. You get this shit. I hear what you're saying.

Thanks. But, yes, I think that's a big problem. too and then just um like you're saying there's almost dissatisfaction with the system that's in place and i feel like every generation says that like every generation is like i hate the system but i feel like now because of social media because of what you were saying like we're just so exposed to it on the day today almost everybody knows somebody who's had like a big healthcare event that has essentially bankrupt them um a lot of people know people who can't get housing or you know just a big part of your daily or your income and your expenses uh so i would say like that's why people are feeling bad it's just

kind of like it feels very stagnant and it's like where do we go from here and part of so fitch downgraded the united states of america and the downgrade isn't that big of a deal but the part of the reason that they downgraded the u.s so like said the u.s wasn't as credit worthy as it once was was because of the political polarization in the united states because of the debt ceiling because we can't really get anything done and i think that was really emblematic of how things operate here. It's like it's always fight, fight, fight now versus maybe there was more agreement back in the day. Oh, yeah. Right. Well, it also, it also seems like a reluctance. I mean, when we're talking about it politically, it's, you know, it's quite, it's much more difficult for the incumbent

to talk about this in an exciting way, but it's easier for, you know, it's the Republicans right now who are not in holding the executive office. So they get to be like, oh, he completely fucked everything up. But also, if I was the Biden administration, I wouldn't shy away from some of it. Like, you were talking about, like, in the 1980s, the average home price was around four and a half times the median income. And now it's closer to seven and a half times. I mean, like, people feel that, right? Like, people want to own a home. And it's, especially in America.

Right. It's the one way to actually build wealth in this country. Which is, I think, super problematic. Yeah. What should we do? The American dream owning a home? No, no, no. I think that the fact that, like, the bottom 50%.

of Americans, all their wealth is in real estate. It's in their home that they own. And so, like, one thing that I think would be really beneficial is giving people equity or ownership. So, like, helping set them up with stocks or helping them, like, get shares in the businesses that they're part of because that's what, like, the top, you know, 10% have is they have ownership and businesses. Right.

And that generates real wealth versus, like, using homes as a speculative asset. This is, like, my hottest take. I think people do not. We want your hot. No, I agree with you. Like, a home shouldn't be, like, a tool of speculation. And that's part of the problem with the housing crisis is boomers, you know, they're in these homes. 38 million people have no mortgage.

You know, they're sitting on like this gold mine. They're not going to sell. And so I think that's part of the problem is like it's turned into this speculative tool when really it's like a human right to have housing. I also think homeownership kind of like radicalizes people and makes them, turns them into a great because they they feel this. Like this is my, this is my retirement fund. This is my everything. Everything that could lead to real property. I mean, yeah.

I think that's why, I mean, we've talked about it in a previous iteration of the show, but, you know, there's the shift from people's retirement plans being pensions, which would pay out automatically to, you know, 401Ks and it all being up to how the economy is doing and everything has really warped people's brains on how they feel about things. I mean, you know, we pray to the almighty stuff. stock market. Yeah, that's, that's my biggest gripe is that the vibe thing that I noticed personally, as if it's some revelational revelation, because it's pretty obvious to me, is just the gigafication of everything, the subscriptionification, if I can make up a word of everything, where it's

just a new way to just fucking milk everybody for money. Just, it's, it's, that's the part that gets me that's exhausting because it feels like it's not a pyramid scheme, but it's similar to a pyramid scheme in the sense that eventually you run out of things. And eventually we're going to reach a point where it's like, okay, they're going to have to get more creative with. Yeah, don't you remember NFTs and digital ownership? And also, it feels like because, by the way, I'm trying.

No, no, try this, try this. Here, sit up straight and put your legs under your. It's fine. It's okay. No, no, but watch. Try putting your legs under your seat, and it forces your posture up so that you're... Or just like this. Criss-cross applesauce. You need to...

Let's do that. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Genius. Quick swat. This is all staying in the episode. No, good. I like that. But, um...

Yeah, this is so much better. Just, it's frustrating. to see all of the the power and the wealth and the good profit margins and all of that shit sort of concentrated among the big tech heavyweights and it just feels like our entire we've we've just got that we're an entertainment

economy and we're a consumption economy and we don't make anything like we used to and there's I mean I know we just added 800,000 manufacturing jobs that's what I was going to follow up with I'm being a bit um what's what's the word parabolic not parabolic hyperbolic hyperbolic hyperbolic thank you and yeah i i catastrophize in that way where i just feel like what do we even do what do we what do we do besides have these companies milk people for every cent that they've got and then brag about ever increasing margins and revenues that keeps the stock market juice that keeps everybody happy

that keeps that vibe kind of up and running and as long as there's just enough people to fill in these menial shitty jobs that keeps the unemployment level. I'm being incredibly simplistic, but it just feels like, yeah, we're just, it feels like we're hanging on by a threat kind of thing. And I know that we're not, but depending on your algorithms, depending on who you interact with online, it either feels really good. or really bad on the brink of And then you got climate change on top of that

Whenever something happens, it feels like Oh, don't ever have a child Because you'd be bringing them into this unfair, cruel world Which is true, but that's true of any generation. I mean I don't know, the boomers had it pretty good. Boomers had it great. The boomers had it the best.

They had a special time. Yeah, I think part of the issue is everybody wants what the boomers had. And that was just rare. I don't think it can be ever replicated. like they had jobs and like housing and all this stuff and that was a rare thing like no other generation before them really had that and then they had it and like you can argue about what they've done with it since but yeah well I can I wouldn't I don't even think it needs arguing about what they've done with it since I don't know the generational divides are kind of funny too yes it's tough sometimes people say you guys are so millennial and I'm like I don't know I am a millennial I don't know what I'm doing I don't know yeah this i wanted to read this this rant from this guy who has you blocked yeah i can't believe he has me blocked yeah well but he's referring to jamie diamonds

the CEO of j p morgan had this um had this speech that he gave in 2016 that recently made the rounds and jamie diamond is basically saying how things are better than ever and things are actually really good and whatnot and this guy's a dumer but and this is this is the poisonous allure of Dumerism, it feels really, really smart. It feels really, um, it feels really, um, it feels really data driven and it feels really, uh, it just feels like, yeah, this guy's right. Like, because then on the other side, bullishness and eternal optimism just feels kind of like, well, I mean, you were saying in your piece about the, there's a,

there's a profit drive with, well, like, kind of like being a shitty. person and being negative and being that pessimistic. Yeah, I mean, he's probably selling a newsletter subscription. Probably, but he says Jamie Diamond is out of touch on America as it comes. I get in lifts and the drivers are working three extra hours driving after their two job shifts just to put food on the table. Bartenders are trying to get by on $35,000 a year when the cost of living doubled or more in the last year.

People are unable to afford basic daycare, polluted and crooked mindsets about both genders permeates society too. Baby boomers hoard more and more assets, sweeping up things with cash funded by taxpayer welfare, blah, blah, blah. The country is dying in every way. In the literal sense, highest suicides ever in a single year, birth rate collapsing, apathy towards the future, nuclear family dead, consumer addiction,

biggest wealth gap in human history, education and attainment level for young men collapsing, and many have checked out forever. Young men. Billionaires like Munger and Buffett tell us we've got it better than ever. You can order sushi at home from a 1099 slave contracted by a company that doesn't even make a profit. Survey the population. Give me a break. Maybe I'm just outdated.

And what I want is a relic of the past. Yes. Sure. Maybe there's nothing we can do at all to stop the seemingly permanent trajectory towards decline at the end. But I'd sure as hell love to see one last hurrah. It's the little things like, yeah, talking about the apathy toward the future, consumer addiction and the wealth disparity that really hit home for me that make me feel. like we got to do something to change. And that's where I do feel optimistic is that we're in such a good position

to be able to go in and make the tweaks necessary to really make it a society that benefits everybody fully. So there aren't those instances of, yeah, lift drivers work in their third extra hour after two jobs that they work otherwise. Yeah, I mean, I think wealth inequality is a big driver behind why the vibes feel so bad because like you see these people you know like jamie diamond or like david solomon who you know they're CEOs so they get paid a lot of money but like

they get paid way more than the lowest paid worker at their firms and like that gap between CEO pay and lowest paid worker has like expanded i think i think a hundred times like it's gotten massive and so i think that's part of the issue is that we just have a lot like this guy was saying who has me blocked. We just have a lot of wealth concentration, and that's really difficult to deal with. But so is this trending down? Because I don't know if I read it in yours or somewhere else,

but it was that stuff like that where there might be a lot of noise about people working three jobs and shittier jobs more and more. It means a strong labor market. But aren't people working better jobs with better pay, Like, if you're looking at the statistics, I found that very, like, promising, at least. It's not, I think from what we hear, it's that everyone is losing their job and having to work the worst job ever. But wages are, real wages are improving. They are, finally.

And I would say that gigafocation has kind of gone down. Like, you don't really see people turning to lift as much. It's actually lift has, like, a crisis of drivers at this point. They're turning more to, like, office jobs. and like manufacturing jobs too now everybody wants to be a uPS driver so yeah it's things like that like there's still opportunities but i would say like just because there's opportunities that are better doesn't mean they're you know opportunities that people they should be paid more yeah and on the on the wealth disparity front it feels like it feels like part of it is that

not everybody is participating in the rip roaring bull markets if everybody everybody was. If everybody had a good piece of it, it would do a hell of a lot more for the vibes. Yeah. Because, yeah, the people like Zero Hedge and Hedge Eye and all those perma bears, they're not, I mean, for all I know, they're not participating in it. Therefore, they are always going to be looking at it through a negative lens. Whereas if you're actively just like optimistic toward the future in participating in the in the bull market, you're more likely to feel optimistic, even if your acute circumstances might be temporarily painful. Yeah, I mean, I think stock ownership is like a big

important thing that we need to create to be more accessible. Like another one of my big hot takes that people also hate is I think that Fed now, which is like the Fed's payment system that they just released, I think that needs to be an app that everybody has access to. And like you should be able to invest in stocks through that. You should be able to invest in treasuries through that because treasuries are yielding like 5% plus. So if you just like help people throw money into that, they'll be pretty solid, right? Like 5%'s great. And I think there needs to be like get rid of Venmo, get rid of PayPal, get rid of all those other fintech apps, have it in Fed Now. And I think that would reduce a lot of the bloat that we see in the fintech system and encourage them to maybe

innovate in different directions rather than always having payments. And then also help people save and invest through the centralized app. And like almost every other government, has something like this. United States just has misaligned incentives. We do things a little bit different. Yeah, I mean, like lobbying. Are there huge margins to be squeezed from Fed now? No.

But people hate it because they're like, well, the Fed would track me. And it's like, you're not that important. You're being tracked by, I don't know, it's this strange thing where these things that could like materially change your lives are like, well, I would have to give some data up for that. Yeah, biometrics. But like any fucking tech. company wants it and you're like oh sure but what do you need like blood blood sample urine sample

agree they love private companies just just bring in the cameras into my home and uh it's like in the listening devices you know what tsa they take your picture now yeah yeah yeah good take it it it's kind of weird they're like we delete this right after um but they look at your license and they take a picture and they like match you to your license yeah so the government's doing it anyway do they delete it i don't know probably not yeah but then well they might but then And do they empty trash? That's the real question. I got pinned up against the glass because I made a joke.

I said, yeah, right, dude, I can see you jacking off to it. And he did not like that. No, I'm joking. That's not. I didn't actually do that. No. I wanted to share this, I mean, this, this, Pachy McCormick had this piece about optimism. And it's just to counter the negativity that I just shared.

Yeah, I've got Diet Coke, burbs. See, that's why I can't. It's just like the SAT. Oh, no, that was, trust me when I say that was a million times worse. And I wonder how many people left that SAT going, this fucking kid just had to shit the whole time and his stomach would not shut up. And it made me get. It's so quiet.

They should play music. I feel like that's, like, testing environments are really. Or white noise or something. Yeah. Anyway, Packy says here, this whole article is about, about optimism and that there's a lot to be optimistic about it in biotech in in the superconductors thing which is turning out to be more more bunk than than not but um AI and all this stuff but he says we're shifting from indefinite pessimism and insanity to what

I'll call pragmatic optimism a balanced real realistic optimism focused on achievable progress over the past 18 months prevailing sentiment became irrationally pessimistic based on how bad we heard everything was and turned pragmatically optimistic based on our lived experience that it wasn't. I think he's talking about, you know, it felt like the end of the world. I mean, there was an entire year of pretty much every publication being like, we are going to get hit with a wave of the worst financial. And he goes on to say social media amplified and spotlighted extreme views. And after the violent amplification of extreme views on both ends, we're settling somewhere more sane.

Reality is winning and reality is pretty good, actually. But the biggest part that I really like is how he says optimism shapes reality and an optimism foundation, and an optimistic foundation, excuse me, is necessary to leverage instead of impede the benefits of these technologies. And I think that that's huge, yeah. Because the downside to pessimism is pretty limited. It's just like, all right, yeah, just total destruction, boom, done. The upside to optimism is Mars, we're going, Mars.

Mars is the best place possible. I think you need a healthy, I think you need a healthy dose of reality to, so you don't seem out of touch. I mean, I think like, if I was a sitting president right now, I think I would be mindful of, of, what we've accomplished, but also not be not shy away from talking about some of these inequities and what needs to be fixed, you know, if I was, it's, yeah, because we've ghosts. So, I mean, I don't know, you need to, you need to be able to do both, I think.

Yeah, he, I mean, he goes on real fast. He says, it's almost as if we simulated the worst case scenarios virtually and came back more confident in the real world. On the ground, while there are weaknesses in real estate and household wealth, household wealth. And while a recession may still hit right now, jobs are plentiful. Wages are growing. Inflation is cooling. Inequality is shrinking and manufacturing is booming. And I think it's just, it's one of those things where it's not going to ever be perfect. Yeah. And it's not going to be, it's not going to feel good because there are going to be bits and pieces and segments that are, like you said, tech is one of the ones where we're seeing a lot of people getting laid off.

But that's the one that feels good. I think people feel good when they see tech and financial sectors getting reamed. He's saying it, not me. But, I mean, even then, that's probably due to the pullback in all of the excessive hiring. I mean, I think he's right. Like, there's a lot of things to be excited about, like, nuclear energy. The superconductors are probably not working. But, like, something like that is really exciting.

We might have made, like, a cool new magnetic thing or something. I'm on my fridge? Yeah, new magnets. Hell yeah. Yeah. But I don't know. It's just like, I mean, I'm an optimist. Like all my stuff pertains towards optimism.

But I think that like what Packy is talking about here, and it's a good article, but like it's all very meta. And I think like the beginning of our conversation was more localized, right? So like the average experience might not be so good. And like, okay, maybe we do get nuclear technology. But all of that takes a long time to like take impact. So I think that's the big issue is like how do we sort of make people feel better? right now. And people are feeling better, especially compared to, I think, this time last year.

And Biden, in Bidenomics has done a lot of work and, you know, sort of avoiding the recession. So the way that we've been able to escape a downturn is because fiscal policy, because of the Chips Act, because of the IRA, because of the IIGA. And so I think now the question is, like, can we maintain, can we maintain that level of spending? And I don't know. Yeah. I think it's a... Please don't even might pick that up Someone outside just said Hello I'm with you there on the optimism

And it goes back to what I was saying Before where I feel guilty talking about it Because it's kind of like when you were a kid And your dad would say Finish your food because they're starving children in other countries it's it's like yeah i i understand that but that doesn't mean that i should be miserable too and have that same outlook no it does you can't have happiness until everyone does there's like there's social pressure to have anxiety about things yeah yes there's

more equity in in in feeling bad complaining and feeling bad and saying aren't things really man everything sucks huh yeah and i feel like sorry to keep on like no no go ahead but like our brains love like being sad like we especially mine yeah I know same it's just like yeah we just trend towards negativity because like we're animals you know and we have to protect ourselves so if we see something negative as we were talking about other comments section like we're going to be more likely to pay attention to that and that's the thing that you have to you know battle too is like brains love negative information yeah people have tried to do the like positive and you're like oh I hate your whole fucking thing dude remember

And like John Krasinski was like, oh, got good news. And then he sold it for $40 million. What? Yeah, you got good news, dude. He sold SGN, some good news network or whatever for like, like millions. Wait, is he the office guy? Yeah. Okay.

He sold it to like Disney or something. And then they did nothing with it. He just, he just. Disney probably bought it up because they wanted to protect optimism or something. That's our whole thing. Yeah. We're supposed to be happy. I remember seeing a guy.

throw up when I was a kid at Disneyland and it ruined the allure he just like I was in the bathroom and it was a hot summer day and he came out and took his baseball cap off and put it to his chest as if he was about to be paying attention to the national anthem and just hurled into a trash kid and I remember thinking damn that is bleak and I was like six well uh this is not relative to throwing up but like there's also people are more likely to spend if they're angry So you're more likely to engage with your vices, like you're more likely to smoke or drink or like buy junk food. And so there's also that sort of incentive in place. You know, if you keep people angry, they're going to be spending, right?

They're going to be spending. They're going to be clicking. Yeah. They're going to be coming back for more. And ads are so interesting because Apple and like privacy and all that. Apple and Google are going up against the government essentially over privacy. Because the government's like, whoa, like you kind of have a lot of date on people and you sort of have a monopoly. and it's a little creepy and so the government's like well maybe we'll regulate this like how europe's doing

and so now we're going to see a lot more ads because they can't do what's it called when they like targeted ads like targeted ads are going to be harder to to get across because of some privacy laws and so now it's going to be just a swarm of ads like we're exposed to 10,000 ads a day like i was in the uber and on the way here and all along the four or five ads ads ads everywhere in like Uber there's an ad and that little iPad yeah it's just and I think that too like you feel like you're not even a person you're just like something to spend money um if you go on Instagram it's like a bunch more ads than you're used to put her to now or X and so I think like uh we're just sort of bogged down by being consumers versus being seen as people which I think also the point

about like optimism and feeling bad is feels bad be sure to sign up for our Patreon Patreon I had to put it in a ad. But it's not your fault. You have to have ads because everything has to be free or a subscription model, right? And so like the ways that you monetize,

you're just sort of stuck in a corner. I feel bad about it. I've definitely had those moments driving on LA freeways where I'm tripping out at there are just these giant things. Billboards, yeah. Just flashing at you. Hey, dipshit.

Look up here. Like, look. My favorite thing is... You had two? I had the one, but I changed it midway through. Yeah, I paid extra to have it changed. Yeah, that was fun. My favorite thing is when the billboard is an ad for itself.

Oh, yeah. This billboard never turns off. They're like, look how sick this is. Don't you want this to be your business? Yeah. This is your space. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about your fast company article about Gen Z. Yeah, I feel it.

The ties into all this, yeah. Yeah. So that's, you kind of explain what, maybe you can boil it down a little bit of. Gen Z has had this unique experience of like being born into the wake of the financial crash. And then just kind of getting hit with a, sorry it's the noisiest. Yeah, and I can see it jumping. This is definitely going to be. Oh, I could talk about car culture too.

Oh, boy. I can't stand cars. And I, oh my gosh, I have so many hot. takes on cars because I think it ties into sort of what we're saying too like you get in these giant pickup trucks and people are going to hate this but like you get in your giant pickup truck and you're isolated from the world and so I feel like they're bigger than ever yeah and so you're just like there's a lack of community that's like based in how we transport ourselves yeah yeah in in L.A people love to flip each other off and risk getting shot because that's I saw this

fucking like old man accidentally I don't know do something to piss someone off so they honked and he rolled down his window and just said fuck to you, fuck to you with the flipping off. Jesus, it's isolating. But anyway, continue. Yeah, Genzi, yeah, I mean, so like Genzi was born essentially into the dot-com bubble.

And so they don't remember a lot, I'm part of it, Cusper, but 97. And they don't remember a lot of dot-com bubble, but then you're like 10 and the financial crisis happens. So like there's a lot of, like you all know, Like there's a lot of memories in that. And then when I graduated school, six months after that, the pandemic happened. So I never really had like a regular job and like neither did a lot of people in that age group.

And so I think it sort of ties into what we've been saying this whole time is like the way that you think about work has to change because work doesn't promise what it used to. Like for your parents or your parents' parents, like they could, you know, it's sort of like there's return accounts on Twitter. But they could support a family on a salary, a single salary, get a home. have that American dream. And I think a lot of people are like, well, wow, number one, we all almost died. Like, we all almost died. Like, there was a global pandemic where we were locked inside for two years. And we're just, like, moving on.

Like, that didn't happen. And so I think a lot of people are trying to figure out what they are passionate about and just focus on that because, you know, as far as we know, you only have one life. And you might as well do something with it. And then I think also just the way that they can think about work is totally different. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like the pandemic kind of showed everybody how the sausage is made in the sense that this is all made up.

Well, everything that, like, the social promises that were in place totally disappeared. Like, it was like, oh, take care of your neighbor. Like, be nice to each other. All of a sudden, no, like, you know, so you had some people who weren't following protocols or just, like, it just seemed like it was every man for themselves. And, like, the government did a lot to support people and to make sure that those who had lost their jobs were, were okay. But I would say, like, it was an isolating experience in terms of being, like,

which I do think not to go back to that I think that might also have a big impact on the way people feel right now about the economy it was the first time people kind of felt taken care of yeah I mean those unemployment those enhanced unemployment payments were like huge for people and they were like holy shit I lost my job and I'm not in trouble yeah I'm not in trouble I'm not going to lose my house I'm not going to um the delayed rent payments the I mean, yeah, renter protections. People had never experienced something like that. And the thing is, it's possible. Right. And so, and now all of that has gone away. And, you know, the last vestige of it is we have about, we've just a few weeks before

the clock runs out on student loans being turned on. And then it's like, we're back to normal. Everything, everything that you saw is. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like, you know, I wrote about this when it was all kind of happening. but like it seemed like once the pandemic was somewhat over it was like time to save the economy like time to get back to work everybody and it's like well maybe it's still not safe for that or like so like it just seemed like everything was at the expense of the economy and um yeah people i think

became very aware of the cog in the machine thing like you were saying right so how do you think uh i don't know how do you see like your generation becoming like what do you think their relationship with work will be like as people I don't know enter I think it's in your 20s it's there's probably a lot more people who are like I'm going to go for this yeah take the risk creator economy or riskier situation but I think like how do you think people will kind of settle in after that do you think they'll carry with them this independent mindset or I mean I think that even millennials kind of shirk it off right I mean there sometimes when I I have a lot of friends who work in tech.

Like, all my friends are in their 30s. And life at Google sounds good. Like, and when I hear them complaining about how it's bull sucking or whatever, I'm like. You got equity. Yeah. My tummy got picked up. Did you hear it all the way there? Fuck.

But, but yeah, I don't know. It's, that feeling feels like it's probably not just unique to Gen Z's probably. It's probably much more intense. there but yeah work is not loving people back yes yeah yeah it's not like a family yeah right yeah um and like that was one thing when the article got published like everybody in my comments was like millennials did this millennials felt the same way and look at them now they're doing corporate life and so like why do you think that gen z would would change anything and it's like at one point something will have to change at one point someone will do something

And so I don't know exactly what it will look like. I think jobs, like my job is crazy, right? Your guys just jobs that are kind of crazy. Yeah. So I think it's that sort of thing. Like there are new opportunities and new avenues for people to explore. But like, I don't know. There's this whole thing about, you know, can everybody do what their passion about?

Like, what does that look like? And then how do you help people discover their passions? And that's the whole other position. But I think you're right. Like, I don't know what it'll play, but it seems like things are sort of rumbling. I was thinking about that. Did you ever watch Mad Men? No.

Oh. Well, there's a French, remember Don Draper's French wife? Nope. Didn't watch Mad Men, dude. Thank you, Dylan. Okay. But she's kind of coming to terms with her dreams not coming true. And I remember her French mom is there.

And she's, like, consoling her. And she just says, well, the whole world cannot be full of baseball players and balleriness. Damn. And I was like, it's kind of true. That baseball ballerina world does sound pretty tight, though. You hit a game and then you tap it, you know, cap it off with a nice ballet, nutcracker or something. But it does feel like people are uniquely unfulfilled. Yeah, and I don't know.

I think that's like social media. Yeah, because it's always been that way. I hate saying that because it's like social media. It's just like, I think, you know, there's comparison. So you look at other people's lives. You see their highlight reel, right? Everybody is that. And you're like, man, they're living their best life and I'm alone and sad.

And it's like, things kind of suck for me. And so I think that's part of that too. And then also, I think that you're saying, like, people just kind of consume. I think people do consume more than they produce because we have this idea that unless you're like really, really good at certain types of arts, you shouldn't pursue them. So people will like do violin or paint when they're younger. And then like when they graduate school, they're like, well, can't do that. anymore not that good at it and so money at it yeah and so like the monetized passion thing is

i think getting in the way also like people don't pursue things that they care about because they're like i can't make money you're saying being mediocre at tennis is the answer to your is that your solution yeah yeah yeah yeah no but i i i i hate if this is um awkward but i want to uh i i hate if this is um awkward but i want to read a part of your article just because it kind of speaks to the bleakness of the jobs to, you say the upshot of all this inequality and self-dealing is that the promise of work as the means the American dream feels unattainable. Why work 50, 60, 100 hours a week, only for someone else to siphon out all the value. And then there's the work itself. According to Microsoft 2023 study of workplace productivity trends, almost 60% of people's time is spent using office

software for communication email mostly. That's a huge creative energy vortex. The prevailing work culture defined by baby boomers and Gen X is already outmoded and being able to deliver the freedom Gen Z seeks and now it's being further challenged. We're entering a vast unknown with artificial intelligence and the continued gigafrication of the economy while we're still dealing with the pandemic overhang of hybrid and remote jobs. Pretty good.

But I think that's I think that like captures it perfectly. You know, people are supposed to feel like they've gotten everything they want and they get there and they're just going what do I even do here have you ever read David Graber's bullshit jobs yeah it feels very much like we're just kind of

yeah like a lot of email jobs right yeah I was talking to a friend who she said I don't even know what I do like what I'm supposed to do yeah it's the vibes man it's the vibes yeah I feel like this has been so sad but like the whole sentiment

of the podcast the vibes of the podcast have been sad but it's it's it's I think it's nuanced there's there's positive vibes there's pockets it's like I think it's a Jackson Pollock painting but I think what would be good like so your friend who has an email job does she feel like she can explore her passions outside of her email job or does she feel tied to her emails I think I haven't asked her that um but I think a lot of people especially as they start having kids and stuff like that um just kind of because comes like obligations it's like I've work and then I have to like make sure my family oh my gosh and like it's into community and like lack thereof yeah and car culture yeah and suburbanization

and because I don't think you're supposed to raise a family on their own and you're also you're not meant to be exposed to the chronic never ending cycle of negativity and in far reaching places that doesn't affect you personally where you end up carrying that guilt carrying that shame it's a lot of things whereas someone like that might end up might actually be happy and feel fulfilled if when you're Maslow's hierarchy of needs are being met but it because of your exposure

to these things because you're comparing and despairing and seeing what other people are doing supposedly with their lives and because you're seeing all the inequality and all the bad stuff it weighs down the things that would otherwise be positive or neutral in your own life. Yeah. I wrote this article.

It was my recent one about like why people feel the economy is bad. And one thing that I mentioned was unintentional oblivion. So I feel like we're exposed to like a lot of the negativity. And it's kind of like, how do I solve it? Like what do I do? And I feel like that's sort of what has happened with this conversation is like we're talking about all these bad things. But it's like, where do you and begin to fix it?

And I think that is also a big part of the bad vibes. it's like, okay, we probably have to have, like, government intervention for some of this stuff. Obviously, can't really rely on the private market to fix it, which I know is, like, another hot take. But, yeah, it's just, I think it's like that sort of thing, too. It's like, we have these issues, these clear issues, and how do you fix them? Yeah, I agree. I think government intervention could do a lot. Do you fucking Pinko?

Well, I think. What's Pinko? Oh, Panko is someone with, like, a communist, uh. Oh. Yeah. Hinko Kami. I don't know. I just know the word.

It's because they're reds. If you are pink, you are... Like a light Tommy? Yeah. You're like... So it's racist? No. Okay, good.

Because we don't want YouTube. We want to please YouTube. We want to please the other. Don't want to upset them. It means you're sympathetic to communism. Things. Yeah. Speaking of sympathy.

You know who I'm not very, sympathetic toward? David Solomon. Oh. The former, is he the current CEO of Goldman Sachs? He's still the CEO. Current CEO of Goldman Sachs who is now he's, he's Wait, so why did you want to, you specifically

requested that we talk about this. Well, because you had mentioned Jamie Diamond and I was like, here's another bank CEO. And you know we love clowning on dudes. Yeah, well. We do. We absolutely love to clown. I don't know. I feel bad. Like, so the article's just talking about him and like, he's a DJ and he's also a dick he's also the CEO of Goldman Sachs and makes a bunch of money

and in the article they're talking about like how he still went to the office during the pandemic and one person was like I don't think this guy has anything going on outside of work and it's just like hang you know yeah so when I was reading the article it was it just kind of I always have this thought that like we are all of these people in power are these like um deeply wounded people carrying around huge amounts of resentment. And we are the, we bear the brunt of that because, and so like they go into all of his,

you know, I don't know if you like read, it talks about his kind of origin story there. He was denied by them twice. They told them, you're just not Goldman Sachs material. So he went another route and worked with different investment firms and then got their attention. And they were like, oh, maybe after all he can do this.

And so he, um, they called him like the lateral or whatever because he was able to make partner not by climbing up the ranks of golden sacks, but by doing it outside. And yeah, I don't know. You just have this like some of these, you just feel bad for him. He's just like, uh, he's got, everyone seems to hate his whole general vibe. I don't know. And it's just like, to have all that exposed in New York MAG article. It's like, yeah.

I feel bad. I feel bad for the airplane girl. That's who I feel bad for. I feel bad for the people. And I would like to touch on this kind of thing in the bonus episode because we are absolutely going to talk about commenters and internet weirdos. But like that woman's life got upended because she had a bad day. And that's my least, I think that's my least favorite thing about America and about culture right now.

Is that everybody's always ready to take out their phone and film you having your bad day. Wait, are you talking about the woman who's like, that guy's not real? Yes. Okay. Yes. And there was, I saw on the Los Angeles subreddit. Wait, are we done with diesel? No, no, I'm just quickly doing a tangent.

There was this woman on the Los Angeles subreddit who talked about how in traffic on the freeway over the weekend, some guy road raged on her and her husband and started like beating up, got out of his car, pulled her husband out of the car, started fighting him. And she was begging someone to call 911 and she just saw multiple. people driving by filming it instead and it's just ooh it's like the bystander what's like bystander effect yeah yeah which i think was debunk oh okay well but so does i what i want to know about desol is does he suck as a dj or is he pretty good well he would deep look fallopalooza um again i don't know how hard oh baby yeah it's probably nepotism i just love his bad vibe

So when they were auditioning him to become CEO, the bank's image specialist had to give him tips on becoming more approachable. They suggest that he walked the floors more often and create opportunities for small talk, perhaps by stopping at an assistant's desk to take a piece of candy. When I told him, you got to stick your hand in the candy bowl. He just gave me this look like, why would I do that? How is that productive? Recall someone involved in the effort.

The exercise did not succeed in endearing solomon. into the Goldman rank and file. He would stomp around the floors in a really purposeful way and he'd find the two or three people he knew. He'd knock on their door and they would get scared.

The whole thing didn't work. Oh my God. I had a boss like this once. Yeah, he was... I feel like a lot of bosses are like this. Yeah. Couldn't be me if I were a boss. I'd be so cool.

Yeah? Yeah, I'd be walking around taking that candy. Yeah, oh yeah. But yeah, then, so he ended up, he was buying fucking... He bought private planes and was using them to go to his DJ games. Well, he bought them, he made Goldman's hacks by them.

Yeah, pictures of Solomon and DJ booths at venues from Napa Valley to Lalapalooza, looking like the how do you do fellow kids being brought to life. Embarrassed the most image sensitive institution in finance. So wait, you felt bad for him in this article. Yeah, I still do. I have a hard time feeling. Yeah. So why do you, pray tell, why do you feel bad for him just because his whole shit is getting blown up in New York? Because it's just hard for anyone to...

I'm an empath, I guess. I don't know. It's just like... I think that says a lot about you, that you can feel bad for... Yeah, I mean... So, like, when I... So when I was out here,

when I lived out here, and worked in finance, like, it was a little similar. Like, it didn't really fit into the firm. Um, was a blind... FMA hire. And so I think, like, the industry is just really tough.

And it can really, take a lot out of you and so I just like he seems to like he's trying and obviously he's a jerk like the whole BJ comment was like okay dude like why are you bragging about that but um he got a blow job yeah for those of you don't know uh one of the most like damning reports was that it leaked that Solomon who was divorced had once boasted to a group of colleagues I bet I was the only one who got a blow job last night that's just strangely insane behind his back snickering executives gave him a mortifying new nickname B.J. D. Saul. because he used to call himself DJ D.Saw because he's a DJ.

Continue. I mean, now after that, I sound dumb being like, I feel bad. But I don't know. It's just like, I think it goes back to what we were talking about. Like how everybody, it's just like, I think a lot of people think we'll be really, really happy if they have a lot of money. And it really helps. Having money really helps, of course. But you still have guys like this who have all the money and all the power.

Right. And it's so unhappy. No matter how much, no matter how much money you have, it's never going to feel good reading. David's not likable, says a long time, colleague. One of the more diplomatic comments I heard in talking to more than 30 of the CEOs, current former executives, most of them partners. He's a prick, says another. Everybody thinks and says he's a dick. He's a tough guy with a very short fuse.

I feel bad. This one made me feel bad because he's like, they come at you for anything. Like, I don't know why he put this in there. Solomon could also be sensitive about his image. After a reporter described him as ponchy in a 2011 article, Solomon confronted her, grabbing the fleshy inches covering his midsection. He demanded, do you think this is a punch? That's brutal.

Oh, my God. He's a sea? I don't know. Yeah. How much is he worth? Oh. Got to be worth over a hundred million. Yeah.

Easily. But yeah, I don't, it's this like horrible thing. He talks about his loneliness and everything. It's kind of like, okay, Elon Musk is like the same sort of vibe. I think they kind of all are. I don't feel bad for him, though. I just can't. He's blown it at every opportunity.

He lacks any kind of self. This guy at least seems somewhat self-aware. Yeah. Elon Musk just takes it above and beyond. It's just I wish bad things upon that. And I saw that he takes care. for depression and I'm like oh he's just like you he's just like you

yeah he's just like me I should get another session yeah he wants me where do you stand on the Elon spectrum he's not he's not asking where you are on the spectrum he's asking oh I get DMs about that too anyway but like I I I'm really disappointed because I'd really love to Twitter. Like, Twitter was... Me too.

I made a lot of friends and all this stuff. And it's just a bummer. I think that you can have, like, one really rich guy, be like, here's my $44 billion is financed by all these banks. And I'm going to call it X and do all this stuff and destroy it, essentially. And make myself the main character. And I think, like, going, yeah, going back to the points about, like, how people are feeling bad.

Now, the website is encouraging. you to post like the most extreme takes possible so you can make ad revenue off of it so you engage um and i think that's harmful and anytime you click on a tweet now because you used to be able to see there would be like a discussion under there and now it's it it prioritizes the blue checks and so you get a lot of just like yeah no i want to see what people actually think about this i don't want to see what the most like sycophantic yeah insane people think and like with Elon I think he's very smart obviously like you know he's a good businessman but he like he thought honey was an animal oh yeah what honey he started being interesting he said honey is neither

fungi animal or plant I think we're really finding out though that maybe he's not all that smart and he's like maybe a little bit dumb you got I think a little lucky which I think you always need luck I think he's smart for sure I mean he's smart but he's not like yeah one of the smartest men to ever live kind of thing he's he's a good he's a good businessman which lends itself to being a good bullshit and he's a good cult leader he's a good cult leader he's a good salesman he's a good bullshitter but again i think it honestly goes back to the thing like it feels like grimes they asked grimes about the like where this all comes from and it's like wounded wounded bullshit where he's just like he feels like attacked and like he needs to

carry this fight for I don't even know why it's for himself for his ego and now we're all the like we just have to yeah it's awful wrong Mars we should end there right we're in an hour 15

would you like to stay in and do bonus or do you have to go back to airport no no not until 1159 p.m. Oh my God why would you do it to yourself and then I'm seeing one way then cool uh so folks oh you okay yeah no i was just going to just end it but then thank you so much for joining us and we hope that this has been as illuminating for you as it has been for us i know it has been for me i love talking about this shit and um i hope it didn't feel disjointed did it

Heald has joined it. Definitely. No, I mean, I think there's like a lot of threads. Yes. Yeah. A lot of threads. But we appreciate you coming on. Yeah.

We're going to have you back. Thank you. It's always fun. I'm excited for the book. Buy my book. Yeah, pre-order the book. Yeah. What do you want to plug?

Social media. Yeah. Where can people find you and all? People know, but tell them. Like I'm on Twitter or whatever. I'm on Twitter at Kyla skin. Instagram at Kyla skin. I have a newsletter, kyla.

dot substack.com, my podcast, which is also my YouTube, which is called Let's Appreciate. Then I'm on YouTube as well, on TikTok at Kyla Skin. Yeah. And then I do a bunch of other projects. And the book is called in this economy. Sorry. And it's out in April, it's 2024. Do you pre-order start?

That's probably a while away. No, it should be up. I know, but like we have to get it up still. Oh. I think by the time this comes up, it comes out, it'll be up. It's contingent on the book cover, yeah. Make sure you. You order it.

If you have any questions. I can't wait to read it. Yeah. You can, yeah. Leave a nice comment, too, please. Yeah, tell me I'm doing great. Yeah. Kyla deserves it.

Yeah. Also, follow Kyla and everything because she's awesome. Follow you guys, too. If you're not already following them, follow. Okay, we'll see you. We're going to dick around in the bonus episode. We'll see you in the bonus. And bye.

I love you. Bye. Thank you.