The Ben Mulroney Show - A bail story, a rebrand and the first Inuk NHLer tells all

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

GUEST:  Ari Goldkind/ lawyer Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters GUEST:   JORDIN TOOTOO/Former NHLer If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hi, this is Ron McLean. Did you know the Salvation Army helped 1.5 million vulnerable individuals and families in Ontario last year?

Please join me, December 2nd, at One King West Hotel in Toronto, to give back by supporting the Salvation Army's hope in the city leadership luncheon. Together, let's provide hope and instill dreams. Sponsorship opportunities and tables are available. For more details, visit hope in the city, Toronto.ca. That's hope in the city, Toronto.com. Is this really the best use of my time? Can my clients, quick tax questions ever be quick? Is this really the best use of my time? Well, busy season always end in Barnow. Is this really the best use of my time? Do I have to turn down partner to spend enough time with my with blue jay you'll have more time to do what's important to you by completing hours of tax

research in seconds get better answers to tough questions blue jay ai for tax experts welcome to the ben malrini show Happy Monday. It's Monday, November 3rd. A lot of us are still trying to sluff off what was a really sad, devastating loss. Some people devastating. Others like myself, as it relates to this wonderful playoff run of the Jay's unexpectedly successful season, I'm choosing to look not just that the glass is half full, but it's almost full. They gave us so many great memories. And I will say it till the cows come home. The Jays gave me, the gift of two sons who are now baseball fans they became fully invested and that is a gift that is going to keep on giving for the rest of our lives

and so here's hoping that the success of this year will be built upon by this team and we can move forward with renewed excitement for baseball in this country so thank you to the Js

thank you to Rogers and I'm glad I got to have those memories with my kids. We do unfortunately have to start this segment with some really sad news and sad and uncomfortable news. There was a horrible crash on the 401

just outside of London, Ontario when some kids who were on a field trip from the Waterloo region had a there's something happened to the bus

and we don't know what happened to the bus, but It was a one car, you know, one vehicle collision. And these kids from Kitchener, Waterloo Collegiate and Vocational School were on their way to an overnight geography trip in Leamington, Ontario. And two buses were actually on this field trip. And the something happened to the bus, and the bus went into the ditch and rolled over. Four kids went to hospital. And sadly, the bus driver passed away. And they don't have much more information than that right now because it was a one car collision.

And the people who are in the bus were kids. So it's not like they're necessarily going to, we're paying attention and knew what happened. The bus driver was 52 years old. My assumption is that he had been a bus driver for quite some time. So you can't ascribe incompetence or the fact that he was a young driver. You can't ascribe that to him. You can't, you know, he must. have been careful over the course of his career.

You don't get, you don't, you're not a bus driver at 52 because you are, um, uh, cavalier with the lives of the people in the back. So something happened and we don't know what it is. Uh, so our hearts go out to the, the family of the bus driver who must have, you know, woke up every day and probably took really good care of those kids. And fortunately, even though if those four kids are in the hospital, it looks like they're going to be okay. Uh, but when more interesting.

information becomes available, we will share it with you here on the Ben Mulroney show. What we should be talking about today with the budget nearing, and we're going to get that tomorrow, is a story like the following. Approximately 130 workers have been affected by the closure of Holsag furniture in Lindsay, Ontario. Before we dive into this, let's listen to a global news story on this sad news. We live in kind of rural Ontario. and we think of ourselves insulated from the greater world, and suddenly it hits you that you're not. After more than three decades in Lindsay,

Holsag Canada, a furniture-making company known for its wooden chairs, is shutting down. Its U.S. parent company, Mighty Inc., says it will move production south of the border. Holesag Canada was a privately owned Canadian company before it was sold to the Utah-based firm in 2017. In a statement, Mighty said the decision reflects both macroeconomic and operational realities, citing the challenges of fluctuating tariffs, shifting trade policies, and rising costs. Yeah, it's 130 people losing their jobs.

And when we went to the website, those chairs are beautiful. And, you know, I mean, this is craftsmanship. This is not like a factory line where people just plug in a widget, although that's very important as well. but you know this is a craft and i was just googling like how big's lindsay ontario the most recent specific population data for lindsay is from the 2021 census record a population of 22,367 people 22,000 so you lose 130 jobs in a community of 22,000 there's also the larger city of colartha lakes and that has a population of 83,000 that includes lindsay but lindsay itself is just shy of 25,000 people

and 130 people lose their jobs, that means almost everyone and Lindsay knows somebody who lost their job. And this is, this is what we're, this is what we should be focused on. These are the people, these are the stories that matter.

This is the everyday Canadians who are fighting tooth and nail for their jobs. And instead you've got, you know, before I say that, we're apparently all in this together that's what I was told that's one of the things

that got the liberals reelected right? It's one big country one country of people and yet there's an MP in Ottawa Leah Gazan or Gazan who wants hate speech who wants it recognized as hate speech

for anybody who denies who perpetrates residential school denialism. Now, let's listen to a little bit of what this MP is saying, and then we'll talk about why I feel off about it. If this government is serious about reconciling with indigenous people, it must ensure the protection of survivors. It was the stories of survivors and our families that put us on a path towards.

reconciliation. So I'm calling on the government to do the right thing, to take on this bill, to support this bill, and truly honor the gift that residential school survivors provided to Canada. Okay, we got to be, there's nuance here. And unfortunately, this MP is completely of avoiding, sidestepping the nuance. I am not somebody sitting here denying the wrongs of the residential school system. What she wants to legislate here is anybody who says that the supposed mass graves that were uncovered. Anybody who expresses dubiousness about that is perpetrating hate speech. That's the denialism that she's talking about.

But let's also remember that in the years since the supposed Camloops discovery of over 700 unmarked graves, not one body has been exhumed. Like not one. Millions of dollars. And that was the spark that lit the flame of Canada being a genocidal nation. We all accepted it when we heard it because why wouldn't you? of course you like if if i hear that that there's a mass grave i'd be a callous uh heartless ghoul to say i don't believe it i'll believe it when i see it assuming but at some point we have to

see like if you believe that there are 700 innocent kids that were murdered by the catholic church and the and the and the canadian government and they were thrown in a ditch and covered never be spoken of again then you also must believe that that person was buried without respect. And therefore, it would be incumbent upon us to want to exhume them and give them the burial that they deserved and honor their memories that way. Instead, we have been told there are 700 kids that were killed by the government. They're under our feet.

Let's spend millions of dollars making rightly a big deal at it. And then when it comes, I'm saying, okay, well, can we see them? Like, it's not heartless to suggest that. Not one body has been exhumed. It's not denialism. I'm not denying it. I just haven't seen it yet. And to suggest, no, no, no, they're not going anywhere.

No, no, no, no. You don't get to do that. You don't get to call, you don't get to use the theory that there are people in the ground and they were killed and murdered because they were First Nations. And then that sets off a cascading series of events that leads us to Canada being a genocidal nation. You don't get to do that and then never show what's the genesis of it, which is those kids in the ground.

I'm sorry, you just don't get to do that. You can't get there from here as my dad used to say, that dog don't hunt. All right, coming up after the break, we're talking to a lawyer about a wild home invasion last week. Can you guess the bail conditions? Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney's show. And another week, another story of a home invasion gone wrong. Every home invasion is a home invasion gone wrong, whether they get in the house or not.

and it happens way too often and it happens and the stories and the circumstances around it just make you shake your head because this is the this is the situation that we have allowed to fester and three suspects have been charged in a firearm and a firearm recovered after a failed home invasion in Markham last Tuesday three masked men posing as police officers tried to enter a home in Markham and so the police showed up and the suspects fled in a white SUV. There was a short chase and then a foot pursuit. All three were arrested. The video is wild. Like at one point, they finally stopped the white SUV, the cops do, by crashing into it. And so the potential for, you know,

bystanders to have been injured was pretty high. If there had been people in the area, like, who knows what could have happened. And, um, And so we're joined now by Ari Goldkind, a great lawyer and great friend of the show, because Ari, the question I have for you, this is where we'll start, is would these accused have been out on bail under the new liberal laws? Short answer and good morning to you. Yes, which surprises a lot of people when I say that. And you said you wanted to start there. There's my shortest answer ever for a lawyer. But I want to go back to something you said. we should start somewhere that you said probably without thinking of the power of what you said, which is we have allowed this to fester. Now, that sounds like a throwaway line, Ben. It's not. Okay. And when you say we, there are two essential canadas. There is the Canada where people like you and me and thousands of your listeners are like, this isn't a complicated problem.

No. It can be fixed. Why are we bending over backwards to cater to the whims of people who would home invade us. Yeah, I don't, I don't want to make it political, but honestly, you know, I've seen the draft of the, the changes of the criminal code, the conservative party wanted to bring forth, and they brought forth in their motion, which was voted down. And then I've seen now what the, what the liberals have offered. And it feels like one, one party viewed what was ailing the criminal justice system as heart surgery.

That's how important it was. There's a hole in your heart. We've got to fix it. We've got to fix it right now. And the others looked at it and said, no, instead of fixing the heart, we're going to give you a boob job. Okay.

I wasn't expecting that, but I enjoyed it. Go ahead. No, that's it. That's the imagery. Like one said, no, this is a system that is on a really bad path. And if we don't fix it,

some even worse things are going to happen. And the other was like, yeah, no, it's cosmetic. It's cosmetic. Yeah. And by cosmetic, just for your listeners to know, they use terms the liberals did. And I'm going to give some credit to the Mark Carney government in the minute, which for me is not easy to do, but one has to be fair

or else one doesn't have credibility. They use terms, which is now, I guess, the boob job lipstick on, you know, window dressing and all of that, such as reverse onus. And other terms that have a great appeal to people different than me who don't know how the sausage is made in court. I do multiple bail hearings a week, 20 years of doing it. You talk to every criminal lawyer off the record. They'll tell you how the sausage is made. Now here's the on-the-record problem, Ben. Nobody will touch upon the reality of what goes on in bail courts.

Why the bail courts are not responding, many would say, to the growing epidemic of violence in Canada. And as the country changes, the criminal justice system is not changing with it. Now, there's text to what I said in subtext. And every one of your listeners with a brain knows exactly what I'm talking about. But here's the part I'll give the Kearney government some credit for. They have heard the frustration of the premiers, the police chiefs, the public. And rather than saying everybody can go pound salt, the bail system is perfect, buzz off,

they have started moving over to the side of the conservatives or the sane. That's a good thing, Ben. Of course. It is a good thing. And I think a lot of us are assessment after these changes came down from the government. A lot of us said, you know what, it's a step in the right direction. We should all take it. But clearly more could be done.

And let's look at this case in particular. You have three guys, 127, 124 and 124 and 124. They had a prohibited, they had an illegal firearm, which again, demonstrates sort of we got a lot of laws on the books for firearms and there's by the way legal guns are never used in these crimes they're not go out go after somebody in timbuctu alberta for owning a legal gun great no of course so so that put that aside for a sec but then there's the failing to comply with a judicial release order all three of them did that and you know at the time of the offense all three were bound by a judicial release order for unrelated offenses and one of them

was also, unsurprisingly, on probation. And so, like, these are changes that we need massive change here, not incremental change, not minute change, not nuanced change. We need big, big change here, a change in mindset, change in structure. So I could assure you of two things. One, you're never, ever going to get big change so long as a left-of-center government is governing because they will never talk about the rise of crime, why crime is changing, why crime has changed drastically in the last two decades.

A lot of what you read every morning now, you wouldn't have read 10, 15, 20 years ago. But now every morning, it's like, oh, there's three shootings in Toronto when the first thing. Oh, just three? Yeah. And it's like, it's not even a story now. It's like, okay, on to the next tweet about a cute puppy. But there are some solutions here that actually could happen. And it's funny that nobody's talking about this.

Good. So in our last couple of minutes, why don't we talk about it? solutions. And I just testified in Ottawa about this last week, because again, I'm one of the very few ones who goes, look, let's talk about how the sausage is actually made. So the first one is, what happens, like let's use the three guys in the premise of our story today. When I have a client, Ben, and I'll do this quick, when I have a client who doesn't get bail that I really think should, the first thing I do is what's called the bail review where I go to Superior Court and I say, hey, the JP made a mistake. My client should be out. I do that all the time. Most

criminal lawyers do. The Crown Attorney's Office, which has unlimited resources, or at least more than I do, almost never gets a guy like this, like the two guys that you see in our case here, and bail reviews their release. If the Crown's Office started appealing these releases that they say are stupid, that would go a long way to changing here's point two. The judicial zeitgeist that the tie always goes to the runner. Now, that's a baseball reference, and the runner, the runner are the guys trying to get bail. But that's the zeitgeist, which is we err on the side of release,

even for people we know are dangerous. Yeah. Three. Three. Last point, quickly. When these guys get bail, they have mommy or daddy or sister or some fake surety come to court and say,

I'm going to watch them and supervise them. And I promise that they're going to be a good boy. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that. That is never talked about because these guys are never, not never good boys, but so many of them break all those things.

And because, correct me, right, as a surety, they have to put up some sort of collateral, right? No, that's the point. What? Even a genius like you, and I mean that literally, because you're on top of this, this escapes you and 35 million, 40 million Canadians. They don't put a cent down. So there's no recourse realistically when they make these promises. Oh, I'm putting up my house. They don't.

What would happen if they had to put down $15, $20, $25,000 in cash? Yeah. or a lean on the house when they say, I'm going to watch the person. That would lead to a very different set of behavioral changes. Nobody talks about it, but you don't need to reinvent the wheel. The tools are in the system, but nobody wants to talk about how the sausage is made, and that's why I always think, let's talk about it. Well, Ari, you know, thank you for bringing those up.

I think what we should do the next time we have one of these cases, let's bring you back and let's talk about that last final point, the fact that nobody puts anything up, and therefore there's nothing at risk. There are no stakes, and nobody's actually watching these people who should be watched. I appreciate you. Every time you come on, my friend. Thank you very much. Good to talk you.

Up next, can a left-leaning broadcaster rebrand itself and get a new audience? You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly. iPhone 17 Pro on Tellis' five-year rate plan price lock. Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans.

Conditions and exclusions apply. Canada's oil sands produce the energy the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country. Like hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply. chain and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more. You see, we're building more than a strong oil sands sector. We're helping to build a stronger Canada. We're Pathways Alliance, six of Canada's largest oil sands companies working together to help grow Canada's economy. Learn more at pathwaysalliance.ca. Let's face it, finding your next favorite podcast can be tough, but that's about to change. Curious cast discovery is the destination for a ward

winning podcasts from true crime and history like crime beat. Documentaries like Stop Rewind, The Lost Boy, music with Uncharted, and even the paranormal, like Dead Man's Curse, all 100% ad-free for less than the price of a coffee. Curious cast discovery. Available now on Apple Podcasts for just $4 a month. This is the Ben Mulroney show, but as always, we like to bring on our friends, our guests, with insights about all sorts of stuff. But here's the question I have for you, our listeners.

What would you do if you were a brand that was suffering from low ratings? You were a media company. You had low ratings and you were constantly accused of media bias. What would you do? You try to rebrand, right? Well, we're going to delve into whether or not the rebrand of MSNBC is any good. I contend it's not great. Let's see what our friend Tony Chapman, the host of the award-winning podcast,

Chatter That Matters, and the founding partner of Chatter AI has to say. Tony, is the rebrand of MSNBC any good? Well, first of all, I think any time you can take three of five initials away, it's smart because simplification is the key to branding. And I never could really melt MSNBC. But just going to MS and what they're trying to do. Yeah, so to our listeners, it was MSNBC and now it's called MS now. And before you get into it, we should remind our listeners that it was originally conceived of as a partnership between Microsoft 30 years ago, which at the time I'm pretty sure was the biggest company in the world, and in terms of information that you get.

Like, they were big and NBC. So it was MSNBC. I was shocked at how they've decided to forego NBC and they've kept the MS. They're just now saying it stands for my stories. Right. Yeah, so where I think they missed on this, first of all, when they did this, this was their way to counter CNN. NBC wanted to get into the 24-hour news segment. Microsoft obviously had the search engine, and they were the biggest company in the world.

So they thought it was a partnership made in heaven. It really never stuck. And it really, why it didn't work is Fox came around and Fox became this sort of counter to CNN. Yeah. So over time, they're saying, what are we going to do with that? I think what Microsoft is now realizing, especially with their AI engines, we don't need NBC. We don't need legacy television. But they actually peeled away from that, from that partnership years ago.

And the MS said, the people running it just said, well, we've invested so much in this brand anyway. It doesn't really, people don't really associate with Microsoft anyway anymore. So it doesn't really matter. And so it was, the MS part was sort of a throwaway. But I think what's interesting to me is, how telling it is that they got rid of the peacock, they got rid of the colors of NBC. They don't want, they don't want any, like, clearly that brand,

clearly that the identity of it was anathema to NBC News. They didn't want, they didn't want MSNBC's identity to, that was toxic to a lot of people. They didn't want that sticking to NBC News anymore. Yeah, they saw no value in it. And that's the reality of how times have changed. We're at one time attaching CBS or NBC to your brand name gave you that cachet an immediate recognition and validation with the audience.

And today it doesn't. But the MS now is actually stands from my source news opinion world is what they're trying to do. And it's just, it's, it's so tech. driven as opposed to consumer friendly. And, you know, so the distancing himself, where they could succeed, if they could come out and say, we are the most fact-checked source for authentic news in the world, if they could come out there and somehow or others say, we only put on, we only put content out that's been facts-checked almost like they do with investigative journalism, at least two sources,

then I think they have something to stand for. If not, it's just one of many channels. But I don't see how... For 24 hours a day. I don't see how they can do that when so much of their identity is tied up in their opinion people, like the Jen Saki's and the folks on Morning Joe. And, you know, without them, MSNBC, or MS. MS now, what's it called now? MS now.

MS now. MS now, that's, that's, it's the bland stuff, right? So, yeah, they could, the news stories themselves. during those segments, I'm sure they could say were the most fact-checked. But, you know, when I saw Joe Scarborough before the last election, before Comlett took over the ticket, look dead in the eyes of the list or the viewers to say, this version of Joe Biden is the best version of Joe Biden. I've never seen him sharper. That's not fact.

That's opinion. So I don't know. There's no question. I mean, it's a very valid point. I mean, the only way these things survive is you, you try. try to get your next Joe Rogan and create an audience with it. But again, I don't see what the reason for this channel. It's not giving me something that says within my 24 hours a day.

I've already drinking content from a fire hose. Why would I put this on my channel? So, like, just shopping for chocolate bar. You've got three chocolate bars in consideration. Occasionally you might try a fourth. The same thing here. What is MS now? And again, as soon as I see MS now, I think of multiple sclerosis.

Yeah. I don't think about Microsoft. I think of this as a charity. Yeah, you're right. I hadn't, I can't unring that bell. Now that you've said it, that's what I think.

Hey, I want to move on to one of the most iconic music venues in all of Canada. That is right down on the waterfront, the amphitheater on the grounds of what will, that was Ontario Place. And a beautiful outdoor venue. It's gone through several iterations. You know, most recently it was called the Budweiser stage.

and now they are completely reimagining it into something quite spectacular, which is, but it's being renamed, it's back to being the amphitheater. It's being renamed the RBC amphitheater. And I wonder what you thought of that. I think it's a brilliant move for three reasons. One that a lot of times cities define themselves out of their music venues. I think of the Sydney Opera House, what Vegas is done with the sphere. And I'm wondering if the RBC amphitheater on the lake can really be,

a venue that embodies what Toronto's trying to be, the sense of modern, clean city, and a constant conversation with nature, connection with humanity. And I think that you couldn't find a better place to put a stadium than on the lake. Second reason is that tiered, when you think about the world of rock and roll

or any artist, you know, you start off on the clubs, and then you kind of get to what they've built with history in the beach, which is sort of a 2,000-seat venue, or the Danforth. And then now you move into the amphitheater, which is sort of the next tier up before you do the big stadium shows.

So for Live Nation, it's almost like they have a feeder club to start creating the next generation of acts. So strategically, it makes a lot of sense. And for RBC, their whole brand is attached to experiences. This is a brand that's said a long time ago, but we want kids experiencing golf. We want sparring athletes to do training ground to go after the Olympics. And we're all up with first up with artists. And so it just makes sense for RBC to be involved with it.

and they have such a connection with Live Nation. We saw it with Taylor Swift. So I think it's just a win for everybody, but most importantly for Toronto, because we need those positive experiences to remind people that live here why this is a great city, and more importantly, a reason to visit.

Hey, we've got to, but just about a minute left, and I wanted your take on Quebec's own version of, like, by Canadian. It's called a look for the little houses. Le Prudvi du Quebec launched a nearly $1 million awareness campaign just the other day, encouraging Quebecers to look for the little houses in the aisles. The campaign uses new certification

to help consumers easily identify products that are truly made in Quebec. How different is this from the Buy Canadian campaign? Well, it's Quebec's version of it. And as we know, Quebec likes to sing their own song sheet. But it's very smart because Canadians that have a strong desire to keep their money in Canada,

they just confused where to do it. And there's been a lot of maple washing. So for Quebec, to come out and say 100% certified, that's like the good housekeeping seal of approval or what the intel, a chip used to mean to you on a computer that it's fast. I think it's brilliant on Quebec's part. A million dollars is not what I'd call a buoyant campaign, but if it gets people talking, looking and shopping, hopefully that'll fund more dollars to support Quebec entrepreneurs. But have they been able to square the circle? Because there was a really tough thing

in Canada, especially in food. What was a Canadian product? Is it a Canadian brand? Is it a can eat, like, is the parent company in Canada? Or is it manufactured here? What if the ingredients come from abroad? Like, there were so many different ways to skin that cat that people found it impossible to figure out what they should be buying. Oh, I mean, look at the Campbell's Soup controversy recipe made in Canada. I mean, it was, you know, it was.

Why hadn't heard that? That's pathetic. That's what Ford went all off the rails. I think what Quebec's doing is saying it's a tough gaunt to get this seal. Yeah. They're really going to support, you know, that local business and people that are based in Quebec as a start. Yeah. And I think, again, it's good because we need clarity because our tents there.

But when you're shopping and you want to get in out of that store as fast as you can, you don't, you know, and you don't have time to look at every label. So I think that having the stamp of approval makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much, my friend. Always a pleasure. All right. Up next, the subject of a new documentary, you will absolutely be hearing a lot. about over the next little while.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for listening to us across the Chorus Radio Network. Of course, we're on all podcast platforms. We're on YouTube and we're on social media. So wherever you get your information, you can always find the Ben Mulroney show. And we thank you for helping us build this show. Being the first at anything is important. And in terms of being the first of a particular community, it is even more important.

I love the expression, you can't be what you can't see. And so for our next guest to have been the first inook player to play in the NHL, what that must have been like for young people of his community to see what he was able to achieve and then be able to say in their own way, hey, maybe I could be the first at this or the first at that. Maybe I could do what he did. I mean, that's got to be, that's a, it's got to be a privilege, but also there must be weight that comes from that. And the story of our next guest is being told in a new documentary.

So please, let's, without further ado, please welcome to the show, Jordan Tudu. Thank you so much for being here, Jordan. Thanks for having me, Brian. Ben. Or Ben. That's all good, man. Ben all over the place this morning. It's a name that's important to me so much so that it was my dad's name, but also my son's

name. So I take it. I'll get it right here. No, no, it's all a good day. you for being here. And of course, we're joined by the documentary's producer, Adam, thank you for being here, Adam. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Okay, so the story of your life, of your career, uh, of the ups and downs. It, it's fairly well known, uh, but now you're telling it in your own words, uh, through a documentary. But it has to be a partnership

between you and the guys making the doc. And a lot of people came to you and said, we want to help tell your story, but you picked Adam and his team. Why? Yeah. I mean, I had a few different production companies approach me and when they sent in their kind of resume and their vision there were a few lines in there that I could really connect with and you know when we met I kind of knew right right off the hop that this was going to be the team and uh to share my story and you know because my it's just not a hockey documentary right it's uh kind of everyone can relate in one way or another and a journey that I am forever grateful for because it's allowing my family to really come together and build a stronger relationship.

Adam, what was it that set you guys apart? Because like Jordan said, it's not just a hockey story. There are issues of culture. There are issues of history. there is our issues of addiction and trauma and death. I mean, there's a lot there, right? So what did you do in sort of your pitch and getting to know Jordan that sets you apart? And what was the story you wanted to tell?

Well, the story we wanted to tell is what came through with lots of, you know, additional education and stuff from Jordan and his family. But what the director did, Michael Hamilton, is he'd wrote a line, you know, talking about from Jordan's book about, you know, I want to tell the story of Jordan to the, to the human. A lot of people know the hockey story and they know a little bit of them

being from the north and being the first in it, inuk, but they didn't know all the details. And he'd wrote it pretty beautifully and actually at our premiere in Colona, Jordan's manager brought up the original email. And it is a pretty well-written paragraph

that Jordan's like, okay, I want to meet. And then when we met in person, I think you just saw how much we care. And for me, I do think that's whether it's a blessing or a curse, like, you know, we'll be forever connected to Jordan

his lovely wife, Jennifer, or in their family going on this journey with them. But we care about our talent. Like it isn't, for me, it isn't just another paycheck, another job. So I think we really bonded. But he did, he did hit us with, in order to tell my story, you have to come live my story. And that was the caveat.

I said, you guys have to come up north. And we were like, hell yeah, that sounds amazing. Until we got up there, it's a little more scary once you get up there. But at first we were gung ho, city folk, we're like, yeah, we're going to do it. But we did. We went up there. and it was an amazing journey.

I'm very thankful. The weight of addiction is one that can drag people down. And I've talked to high-functioning addicts before, but you were dealing with the death of your brother. Your reliance on alcohol increased. What was it like feeling the weight of addiction as you were trying to play at the highest level? level. It's the push pull that I'm trying to, I'm trying to understand. Yeah, I mean,

don't get me wrong. I, uh, been to a lot of crazy places and, uh, I could share a lot of crazy stories throughout my journey. But, you know, with addiction and with a lot of men, especially, we, uh, we think we can hide a lot of, uh, a lot of, um, difficult things in our lives and when it comes to addiction and substance abuse eventually it's going to catch up to you and for me it was uh you know probably the fifth or six year into into my career where things start to go downhill and uh you know because i i grew up in a home where men don't show weakness uh you know men don't back down and uh you know men don't ask for help we can do it on our own and I came to a point in my life where, you know, I knew deep down inside that I'd probably be the next

victim. And I didn't want that for my brother because he, he's the one that paved the way for me and for me to keep his legacy on. I knew I had to make changes in my life. And, you know, when Mr. Poyle and Mr. Trots brought me into their office and basically gave me an ultimatum, either you accept the help we're giving you or your hockey career is done. I knew prior to walk into their office that it was my time. And, you know, I had to surrender and accept the help. And here we are 14 years later. And you look terrific. Thank you. I see, I see health. I see joy. I see ambition. I see the future. Yeah. Thank you to my wife, Jennifer, keeping me young. And my, our three daughters who keep me on my god man i got i got one it's killing me yeah um no but you know

it's this is one of those really important stories because the things about you that are unique are probably the reason people are going to tune in but what people are going to take from it is the commonality right is that is the is the focus on addiction which you just said about men that's that's universal it's across cultures you you said you know i grew up in a house where people didn't show emotion that's not specific to your community. That's specific to all men. And so I think there's a real, there's real, real value in being able to see ourselves the good and the bad in our heroes. And, and, and it's that connection. Are you ready for this next part of your life? Are you ready for what the future

may bring? Because you are now more than any one of those things. And bringing out, bringing hockey and addiction and men's issues and the issues, issues and opportunities of your own community, bringing all of those together. I don't have no idea what you're doing right now or what you want to do, but it's pretty much whatever you want at this point. Yeah, well, I'll let you know what I'm doing nowadays. You know, I'm doing the public speaking thing. I'm able to get out into a lot of our indigenous communities and share my journey. And, you know, for me, the transition of being a professional athlete into retirement, you know, because a lot of hockey guys, we, we retire young.

Yeah. And, you know, you got to have plan B and plan C. And for me, fortunately, when I entered rehab back in 2010, I didn't know if I was ever going to play another NHL hockey game, but I had to be comfortable with that. And I knew that in order for me to keep living my best life, I had to make changes. And fortunately, I went on to play six or seven more years in the NHL and sobriety and growing that way and having clarity and being comfortable and contend my own skin to pursue, you know, my dreams of inspiring, you know, men in our communities to be okay with not.

not being okay and giving them hope and inspiration. And that's what my documentary is about. And anytime you want to talk about any of those issues, there's a microphone ready for you right here on the show. Thank you very much. And Adam, tell us where people can see the doc. So you can see the doc on Super Channel right now,

exclusively in Canada, which you can get through all the providers. Now they have outputs with Amazon, iTunes. So basically, if you search 2, 2, you can get it anywhere in Canada right now. Hey, congratulations on the doc. Jordan, thank you. Congratulations on your journey where you are now.

man you're going to need all the energy you've got with three young girls at home so yeah going to head going to bed sober it's like it's the key i thank you both so much thanks for having us on thank you all uh and really can't wait to see uh the doc the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country, like hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply chain, and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more. You see, we're building more than a strong oil sands sector. We're helping to build a stronger Canada. We're Pathways Alliance, six of Canada's largest oil sands companies working together to help grow Canada's economy. Learn more at pathwaysalliance.ca.