The Ben Mulroney Show - A Bondi Beach hero / Will social media bans work on teens? uhhh no, say teens.

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

GUEST:   Ali Budd – cousin at Bondi beach  Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founding Partner of Chatter AI GUEST:  WYATT SHARPE 16 years old / journalist youtuber The Wyatt Sharpe Show and on Forum Focus on TV If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It is Monday. We are in the Hanukkah season. And on the first day of Hanukkah, on a beach in Australia, as a number of Jewish members of that community were celebrating what they called Hanukkah by the sea, two men, a father and son duo, 50-year-old Sajid Akram, and his 24-year-old son Navid. Akram, opened fire on a crowd, killing 15, injuring dozens. One of the shooters was killed by the police at the scene.

The sun was wounded and taken into custody under police guard. One of the most shocking parts of it was the shooting was caught on video and shared on social media. And it should be clear to everybody that the response time by the police begs a lot of questions. Apparently there was a police station not two blocks away and yet for over 10 minutes free of any police interference. These two men with a bloodthirst for Jewish blood were able to attack an innocent community celebrating their faith. We're over 10 minutes. Apparently Navid Akram was known to Australian security intelligence from a prior to

2019 investigation, but was not assessed as an immediate threat at the time. I'm pretty sure Australian security intelligence is going to want to reconsider that. It's also important to know, and it's important to note, that there is a gentleman by the name of Ahmed al-Ahm, 43-year-old fruit shop owner, tackled the disarmed and alleged gunman during the mass shooting. He acted because he said he couldn't bear to see people dying. There is a debate right now as to whether this gentleman is Muslim or Christian doesn't matter to me. It highlights this person's heroism, but it doesn't take away the sadness that 15, 16 families,

and God knows how many others are feeling today. We should note, though, that Al Ahmed was shot multiple times, remains in critical. but stable condition after the surgery. He is being hailed as a hero, and rightly so. His actions likely saved many, many lives. He's an Australian citizen of Syrian origin, father of two. He has no regrets about intervening without regard for nationality or religion. And that is something that's very, very important.

Those who are highlighting that he is a Muslim as proof that all is well in the Muslim community are off base. and those who would negate the fact that he's Muslim and saying it doesn't matter are off base as well. In a microcosm there, I think what you have is a demonstration that there are good and wonderful Muslim members of Western society that would lay down their lives for Jews. But at the heart of that same culture is, I can't explain why, but there is a rot in the form of, radicalization that has been allowed to take root how we address it i believe it is not necessarily the responsibility of the muslim community we as at different orders of government have an obligation to tamp down on it denormalize it marginalize it and call it for what it is it is bigotry it is anti-semitism it is an uh an invitation to incite violence none of those things

have any place in Canada, and yet we are not doing that. It is important to note that in Canada, we have seen the permissive nature when it comes to these what we call protests. I'm sorry, if you are going into Jewish communities in the city of Toronto and you are shouting down the lighting of a menorah as we saw over the weekend, you're a bigot I don't care what you think happened on the other side of the world

you're a bigot who hates Jews that's who you are you have shown me as much because you got off the couch you got off the couch at the beginning of Hanukkah to go find as many Jews as possible who probably have nothing to do with what happened in Gaza

as Israel was prosecuting a war for its very existence you decide to get off the couch and shout down people lighting a menorah. That's bigotry. You're a racist. And I don't know how you feel,

but I've been told that we don't have time or place for racist in this country. For some reason, we always want to make excuses for those racists. We don't ever want to make excuse for any type of other racists, and rightly so. We have a special permission structure

and we have a special allowance for anybody who hates a Jew in this country. And the problem is when you give enough room to hate a Jew, and here, here's the other problem. Not only do we make it okay to hate a Jew, but we give you permission to hate Jews based on lies. You can hate a Jew because they're baby killers, because they're genociders. They're genocidal baby killers. They're colonialist genocidal baby killers who stole your land. You're saying this about little kids in certain parts of Toronto.

What happens with a baby killer? You want to bring them to justice. That's what happens. That's what you're supposed to want to do. Bring a baby killer to justice. And there's some people who feel that the only justice for a baby killer is a bullet. And that's what we just saw play out in Australia. When you allow a false narrative to take root and fester and grow,

you can't be confused when the fruit that grows from that tree is rotten. And when somebody killed, those guys who shot those Jews, I guarantee you thought they were righteous. They believed they were right. And when you allow a steady diet of BS and lies about the Jewish community, you cannot be shocked when a bunch of Jews get killed. That happens on the watch of any politician who does not stop and rip out this anti-Semitism down at the root. And we're not doing that in this country. Instead, we're allowing for these things to happen. And then when they happen, we give everybody the most basic,

this is not who we are. This is not who we are. The hate has no place in our country. Jews deserve to feel safe. Okay. But if you're not going to do anything to make them feel safe, then keep your words to yourself. Keep your words to yourself.

This is a... This is not the end of the road. Okay? This is what happened on Bondi Beach. This, anybody who thinks that this is the conclusion, uh, that the apotheosis of it all, absolutely not. The, the escalation will continue. And that we heard stories of, um,

the cancellation of New Year's Eve celebrations in Paris due to migrant violence. We have heard about a number of Christmas markets across Europe that either had to either stopped terrorist attacks or were attacked. On the weekend in Montreal, I saw videos of protesters screaming to anybody going into a Christmas market, claiming that Jesus was a Palestinian and he would hate everybody who walked into that thing. this is this is the definition of the globalization of the intifada we are glow it is being globalized as we speak and for anybody to suggest that the words that have been chanted on the

streets of toronto and and across the western world and the actions that we are seeing across the western world aren't linked you got to be a goddamn idiot not to appreciate that one is linked to the other you have to be dumber than a bag of hammer or you have to be willfully blind. But one thing you are not is an honest broker. One thing that is clear is you are not somebody who is willing to appreciate the truth. Or, and here's the most cynical take,

you actually like this truth, but you don't want to admit it. You like that this is happening. You are cheering this on, this corrosive attack on the West. You could be that person. You could be lying to all of us, but deep down, this is exactly.

exactly what you want. This morning we are focusing our attention on the tragedy of Bondi Beach and we were very, I mean, fortunate in one way to have a friend who had a relative who was on Bondi Beach. And so please welcome to the show, Interior Designer and Friend of the Ben Mulroney show, Ali, welcome to the show. I wish we were talking about one of your many accomplishments today. That's not the case.

Well, thank you, Ben. And I just want to be on this. Just thank you for being such a voice for what's right. And I really feel like I've known you a while and I'm just so proud of you and the human

being that you are and what you draw attention to. So thank you for that. Thank you. Sometimes it does feel like we're screaming into a hurricane because it doesn't feel like things are improving, but that doesn't stop us from doing what we think is right. And let's focus on what was wrong over the weekend on the first day of Hanukkah. There was a celebration on Bondi Beach, a public beach in Australia, and your cousin was there. So she was just up the beach at a joining Hanukkah party, but it's quite large there. And, you know, we're like sisters. I woke up to bring the kids downstairs.

And my husband came running down and he's like, if you checked your phone, I didn't check your phone. We have a very active family chat. We all talk every day. And I was just so shaken. She said, you're going to wake up. You're going to hear about this. We are physically okay.

We are not mentally okay. You know, she heard shots, grabbed her daughter, who's two, and just ran like, hop defense, you know, it's just, I, and I think, you know, we went through all the emotions yesterday. I was crying. I was so upset. How am I going to, you know, thank God, she's okay. How am I going to tell my own children this? But I'm so, I'm angry because I've gotten all these messages on Instagram to the effect of, why do people hate? How could this happen? It's like, I'll tell you how this happened. I know exactly how this happened. Tell me. In our own country, in Australia, in France, we have enabled this.

We have allowed people to, and I put it in quotations, protest, because that's not what they're doing. No. In Jewish neighborhoods, at Jewish sites, at Jewish events, we have allowed violence to go unchecked. We have allowed all of this in the name of Free Palestine, which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, because half of these people, I would bet you, I would bet you don't have any knowledge of the Middle East. whatsoever or how it operates. And nothing they are doing is freeing anyone. Currently, Hamas isn't in charge there. I wish somebody would direct some attention towards the fact that they're killing people. But anyways, what's crazy is that none of this actually has anything to do with a war in the Middle East. No. It is all an excuse for violence and anti-Semitism. And it is being fueled by

our government and our mayor. And it is just, it was so inevitable. And that's where my anger comes from. And it's inevitable that it will happen here. Because we are allowing all of this to go unchecked. And, you know, I've spoken to different people in my life. And, and I think I get, there's three camps that I see right now that in my own experience. Let's look at my DMs. One is messages that say, thank you for speaking. Those are mostly from people. who speak up but don't maybe have platforms to the same way that I do or you do, you know, whatever it is. The second is a lot of people who aren't Jewish, I'm so sorry this happened.

And then the third is I'm called a Zionist baby killer and, you know, whatever it is. Ali, I want to take this back to your cousin for a moment. We can jump back into here, the here and now. But, you know, I want to hear more about, you know, look, by the grace of God, we haven't had a bond. I beach here in Canada. It may happen. I hope to God it doesn't. But it may happen. But in the case of Australia, they're pretty much our cultural analog on the other side of the world. They've, demographically, you know, young country, right? Culturally, so much is similar. So the fact that it hasn't happened here and it has happened there, that's just luck of the draw is, have you,

have you, have you, have you, have you, I mean, is she, what, what's, what's, what, where is she right now? Is she scared? Is she going to be going out? Has she? No. Yeah. Um, you know, her son's school was not canceled today and her son is seven. They made the choice to send him because they felt that keeping him, I mean, listen, they've gotten all kinds, they've reaching out to psychologists. Yeah. Who knows how to deal with this as a parent? For the two-year-old and the seven-year-old, who? Yeah. You know, it's a conversation she never thought she'd have to have. Well, she's trying to keep herself together. Yeah. Because, you know, you, you want to communicate to your children that something really bad happened because you don't want to belittle that they understand.

Kids understand, you know, and being told to get on the floor and, you know, being, you know, my cousin Brian just sat with his son and said, you're okay. You know, daddy's here. Daddy's protecting you. You're okay. But really, you know, he's shaking because there was other daddies that couldn't protect their children. You know, a Holocaust survived. was murdered, a rabbi was murdered, a child was murdered. Yeah. You know, these conversations in a community that they've been a part of for so many years, celebrating something that is so, that is literally celebrating miracles.

Yeah. And light in this world when there's darkness. It is unfathomable, but it, but the problem is, it is, like I said, wildly predictable. It was predictable, absolutely. And then to hear government officials, and there are some in Australia, just as there have been here, default to those very tired, the old chestnuts of this is not who we are, and diversity is our strength. Ben, what did our prime minister say yesterday?

You know the last post on his Instagram was about him going to a Christmas tree farm? I didn't see that. I watched it all day. Yeah. He said he posted something on his stories that he later deleted because he, I just, I have no words. you know, thoughts and prayers. I'm so over thoughts and prayers. And what I was saying before in a very long-winded way,

we need the people who are writing privately, I'm sorry, to speak publicly. Yeah. That is what I'm asking for. Yeah. I don't care if you lose followers. Do you really want them anyways? Yeah. No, you're right.

You know? Come on. Oh, yeah. This is our country. This is our city. Australia is something that it could happen here and will happen here. Yeah. And it is our responsibility to stop thinking this is about politics and start thinking this is about humanity.

And what we're willing to deem okay instead of turning our heads. How do you, Allie, on, as you're celebrating Hanukkah on this side of the ocean, in relative safety, I mean, for now it's safe. But how do you keep the worries of the world out of that celebration? You don't let them scare you. you don't let people try and intimidate you into not being who you are that's resistance resistance isn't violence resistance is me going to the hanukkah lighting with my children at our show last night and singing and talking about miracles resistance is being kinder to people and fighting harder like that's that's what i think of this it is not

about it's not anything to do with violence or hate. You know, look at the man. Look at the hero that saved so many people in Australia. This man, who wasn't Jewish, who saw something and put his humanity before anything. And I think that's resistance. And that's the example I'm trying to set. And, you know, regardless whether you're Jewish or any other religion, like, that's what I love about this country. what I did love about this country.

And now it's just, I'm at a loss, but I'm going to keep fighting for it. But you know, I think that last point of, you know, the definition, your definition of resistance is peace and putting more love into the world. I think that's beautiful. That's how we're going to end this conversation. Our thought, I can't say, I was about to say our thoughts and prayers. I know because you want to say it, but it's become cliche. Listen, all the best.

You know, she'll get through this, and I appreciate everything you are doing. and keep fighting, Ben. Thank you, Ali. There's so many people behind you. Thank you. All our best to you and your family. Thank you. Yeah, there are very real people.

I mean, even those who are a mile away on the beach will be scarred by this for a very, very, very long time to come. All right, what are activists upset about today? Let's see. How about the Toronto Scepters of the PWHL? This is a thing, and you got to hear it. Don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulroney Show can do.

This is the Ben Mulroney show. And as always, this time of the week, we like to be joined by a great friend of the show who's always got really fresh takes on some of the stories that you may or may not have heard. Please welcome to the show. Tony Chapman, the host of the award-winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, founding partner of Chatter, AI. Tony, welcome to show. happy Monday. Happy Monday to you as well. So we wanted to start this segment with a fresh take on the idea of political floor crossing. You know, last week we saw yet another member of the

Conservative Party switching over to the Liberals. He did so right after the Conservative Christmas Party so that he was able to go to the Christmas Party, the Conservative Christmas Party on one day and the Liberal Party the very next. I suspect that's not why he did so, but that was the net result. And you wanted to put this in a language that maybe our listeners could understand. You know, Ben, I was watching your segment on it and, you know, talking about how smug people felt about this and how liberal party people celebrated it. So I drew an analogy to sports. Simple as this. Imagine Emmetton Oilers and Florida Panthers. Game seven, Stanley Cup playoffs. Connor McGaidavits ready to take the face off. And then he stops, he skates across the Florida

Panthers bench pulls off his sweater and puts on a Florida Panthers. All of a sudden, the fans cheer, the coach cheers, the owners cheer because they've tilted the game to their advantage. And I did it in that way just to let people realize politics is not anything different than life. Integrity matters, the sense of decency matters, and just because it might be a rule within the system. Yeah.

If you didn't win a majority government, then suck it up. with your minority government and then or call an election but if the idea is today that we can hijack democracy by simply having conversations with people from the other party and encouraging him to come over to me our democracy is ripe to be picked off by organized crime foreign interference anybody that wants to create a power corridor can in fact at least have conversations with people and say it makes sense to do it i'm not alleging that that this happened yeah but i'm just saying as a a democracy. We are seriously in trouble if we think that is how you win a majority in in Ottawa. Yeah. And look, I don't think if you do not feel at home in the caucus in which

you were elected, I think the option that should be, that you should avail yourself of is to sit as an independent. If you can't stomach the party that you stood with in the election, especially I would say within two years of an election, I do not believe that anybody in good faith can look a voter in the eye and say that six short months after being elected as a conservative, they have experienced such a sea change in terms of their political opinions that they are willing to sit with the party that they stood against six months earlier. I don't believe you can make a good faith argument that that actually happened. And so therefore, to me, citizen independent within two years of an election,

otherwise resign and face the voters in a by-election. And I add two things to your list. Give back every campaign dollar that you took from people that wanted a conservative in power and pay for every hour of volunteer work. Yeah. Like, you know, you can't just do this. I mean, I know people say, well, it happens, Stockwell, Day, and everybody always points to the past.

Listen, we've got to draw a line in the sand as a country and say, do we have integrity anymore in our democracy? Do we have transparency? Do we have accountability? If the auditor general comes out and says, hey, you should investigate these allegations, are we allowed to bury them in the shadows? Yeah. Or should we, as a democracy, demand the truth?

And I think this is what's happening. And look, before anybody looks at this and says this is sour grapes by a conservative, I would argue that if the conservatives want a moral leg to stand on moving forward, they should take steps within their own party constitution to ensure some form of what we've just discussed. It happens within there. It's like, make sure that your side of the street is clean first before you start asking for it across the political spectrum.

But there, I think that I agree with it. It's neutral. It isn't a liberal versus conservative. But you imagine the uproaring is suddenly the concertos that invited and attracted 15 liberals and now they formed a majority. Yeah. It would be an absolute uprising, you know? And now it's like almost a game.

They're only one seat away. Yeah. Only one more person to seduce. And this is not right for democracy. I don't care what party you love. This isn't right. I want to, I want to, before we move on to the Advent calendar, I do want to talk about this. This group of 100 fans and advocates that sent an open letter to the PWHL, the professional women's hockey league, because they have a problem with the Toronto team called the Toronto Scepters.

They don't like the name. They don't like the logo. And I, I want to know, you can guess, you can guess what people's problem is with it. They believe that this reference to the crown of England is a reference to colonization. And they have a real problem. And part of me thinks, we don't live in a time where we have the time for this sort of thing anymore. And I kind of love that the PWHL just didn't answer the letter. And I wanted to know your thoughts. I think this might be the beginning of a pushback on the French. These people that sit in their basements with their social media slingshots, just trying to fire at anything.

Listen, you want to create a logo this distinctive, you want to color this distinctive, you want to sell a lot of merchandise. You want people wearing your brand on the street. That's what sports does. And I'm so happy they didn't answer this. And we've got to stop playing to the fringes because it's tying us up in knots as a country. And we've got to start really focusing on the things that matter versus constantly being sidelined for things that really don't have a material impact on our country. And I think that's an important thing. I'm glad they didn't answer.

I want to read some of it to you because it's the privilege that these people have. And I'm turning privilege around on them. They think that this matters to anyone in a world where we discuss very important issues daily, that this is something that they've cleared their schedules to discuss this means they have no other problems in life. Your messaging glorifies colonial power, a racist, heteropatriarchal power that has inflicted genocide, land theft, slavery, and cultural erasure across the globe. This same power continues to shape inequity, systemic racism, and intergenerational trauma here in Canada, and in communities worldwide, this scepter is not a neutral image.

It represents monarchy, empire, and centuries of oppression. All I hear is the voice of the teacher in peanuts. Wamp, want, want, want, want, want, want, I'm sorry. No, I'm not sorry. They had their time in the sun. They moved the needle on all sorts of things. and society is worse for it. We have never been more divided

because of nonsense like this. And the PWHL is trying to build a women's hockey league and they are doing great and they don't need nonsense like this sticking its nose in there trying to further divide us. It is BS. It is a waste of time

and these people need to get a grip and need to get a hobby and probably get a job because I suspect most of them don't have one. And I don't care how that sounds. I'm so tired of this. I'm exhausted by this. I don't care what they think anymore.

It's tying this country up and knots. Yeah. It literally is you ever have kids that's nodded their shoes 15 times. You have to undo it one at a time. And you finally get to the roots important, taking the shoe off because the kid wants to go to bed. That's what we created as a country. All these French groups coming in and saying, oh, my God, and everybody's stopping and starting. We are celebrating women's professional hockey.

Focus on that. Get us on the fact that they're playing in major stadiums. They're earning a paycheck and we're growing the sport. Can you not celebrate that? No, of course not. There's always something to complain about. And frankly, I'm so glad that the league is just saying, you know what? We're done with you.

We're done with you. We're doing our part to make the world a better place. And you can, I've used it once today. I'm going to use it again. George Costanza telling people to stuff their sorries in a sack, mister. I don't have time for it. Nobody does. Okay.

How would you market an 11,000, $1,000 advent calendar because apparently Dior has one of those and I just wonder who do you sell that to? Well, listen, you get people that have got everything and what am I possibly going to get for someone that has everything and they're sitting there with this vast amount of wealth and they're saying

the food bank doesn't need it, charity doesn't need it. So what we're going to do is sell you $11,000 avid calendar. So the next 26th or 24 days before Christmas you're going to open up a door and get something really special that you'll Instagram and remind everybody how wealthy I am. You market it the same way you market other luxury goods. It's to a world that really doesn't see what's happening around them. Yeah.

I would have rather seen that avon calendar saying 11,000 ways we're going to help the poor over Christmas. Give that to your wealthy friend and say, I put that in your name. All right. Well, listen, we're going to leave it. That's how I'm going to market it. We're going to leave it there, my friend. Thank you. A little ranty today.

I appreciate that. Hey, ranty is good. Every now and then we've got to rant scream at the clouds because the clouds are wrong. You're doing a great job, brother. I love what I love following your podcast. Thanks, buddy. Thanks so much. All right.

We're going to talk to you soon. And when we come back, we're going to be talking to the next generation of journalists. Wyatt Sharp, 16-year-old, who does a better job than most. We're going to be talking about why teens should be banned from social media. He may agree. He may not. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And we're going to go back to Australia, but for a different reason, and then the Bondi Beach Massacre.

In late 2024, Australia passed legislation prohibiting children under 16 from holding social media accounts. It was the most sweeping youth social media ban across Western democracies. And the enforcement was expected to begin this year. And it's now started. So let's be joined by somebody who would be affected by something like this. Wyatt Sharp. He's a 16-year-old journalist YouTuber, the Wyatt Sharp Show. He's on form, focus on television.

Good friend of the show, good friend of mine. Wyatt, welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Okay, so what do you think of this ban? What do you think of, and it's not just the only place, Denmark is doing the same thing. What do you think of kids under 16 being banned from social media when we realize that they are early adopters,

they have made their homes on these social media platforms? This is how they communicate. Seems like it's trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Yeah, I mean, I think, to me, the issue is not what the government in Australia is saying, which is that there's some type of difference between the age of 16 and the age of 18. I think if anything, banning it at 16, but allowing it at 18 isn't going to help students and young people learn kind of good habits on some of these different types of social

media platforms. And so I think one of the questions, and the same thing can be said when you're talking about AI in schools, for example, or if you're talking about, you know, the role that students have to play when it comes to any type of thing that's a little bit controversial. And I think the issue of social media is very much the same thing, not to mention the fact that our world right now very much revolves around a lot of these online platforms, even, you know, as a student myself in Canada, a lot of these platforms are used quite regularly, even in Australia, something as simple as YouTube is included in the ban.

There's a lot of reasons why people might want to use that for educational purposes. I think it might be more effective if the government in Australia were to maybe regulate some of the algorithms to prevent super-targeted content from being shown to young people as opposed to just banning it altogether. That's a really good point. Let's stick on that for a moment. I mean, that's what they could do. They could force these companies to be less manipulative of young minds, right?

They could, there are the algorithms. Look, there was a story that popped up on my social media. While it's not about youth, it is about how manipulative these social media platforms are. a woman was describing how she she follows the same account as her husband and they were both they both they both landed on the same uh the same uh the same instagram post at the exact same time and it was something about taylor swift getting uh you know getting proposed to by travis kelsey and she looked at the responses uh the comments to that that uh that post and he looked at the comments and they were completely different and uh hers were were all positive ones from women saying you go girl here you've got your night and shining armor and then his his

his were all negative saying you know she's she's going to ruin a good thing uh just watch his career is going to fall off a fall off a cliff and so two people seeing the exact same thing could get conditioned to see that thing completely differently that doesn't happen by accident that happens by design now take that take that same perspective on fomenting division and stick it in the brain of a young, developing mind like a 13, 14-year-old, and you're setting up society to fail. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. And I think if you think about what it means, right, like young people, again, going back to the AI example, just because schools tell young people not to use AI on their school assignments

doesn't mean that students aren't going to want to use it. And young people in many regards, knowing a lot of young people myself being surrounded about my peers, unfortunately, sometimes they can be a little bit sneaky. And so, you know, they might try and find other means to access these types of apps. Whereas going back to your example, if you were to say, like something on TikTok as you're scrolling, you're more likely to see more videos in kind of the successive feeds like the one that you had just watched. And so if we were to make it to where social media is limited to kind of exclusively what people search for, you know, they go on these apps and they know exactly what they're going to be looking for,

that I think can reduce the manipulative nature of it and make it so that people are not being told. targeted and as you said are not being as manipulated as they are. And that's a really big problem for young people. Another example, even just scrolling on TikTok being in like a group of, you know, peers, for example, and just saying, you know, did you see that TikTok video that came out from so-and-so? And everyone at the table has seen it, which is like, I think, a reflection of how these algorithms kind of work to, as we've said, kind of broadcast certain types of information to certain age demographics. And again, I think a lot of this, if the government in Australia and elsewhere really was concerned about wanting to protect young minds, then maybe they would

regulate the social media companies more. Maybe they would limit the amount of information that social media companies can take from minors as opposed to, again, just banning everything across the board. And I, listen, the reasons for a government to do something are myriad and they are significant. I mean, there is no doubt that social media has contributed to a crisis in isolation, in mental health, in addiction. You know, there are, there are, lack of concentration, the ability to only think for short periods of time, the unwillingness or inability to work collectively as part of a group. All of that is evidence against these social media companies. But I do not necessarily believe that the solution that's being put

forth, which is a blanket ban, solves any of those problems. It just punts the ball. Yeah, I agree. And I also think a lot of the issues that we're talking about as a young person myself and just talking to other young people, the sentiment that's kind of being expressed is, yes, we understand that our minds are younger, we understand that our minds are still developing. But the issues that the Australian government is talking about are not just specific to young people. It's becoming a society-wide problem. And, you know, even my parents talking to adults, like they'll, you know, express the fact that a lot of these concerns with social media and how it reduces people's attention spans and stuff, that's not just in

schools, that's in workplaces as well. So I think, again, just getting rid of something that clearly is the future and that is going to be kind of what defines a lot of society moving forward. Just getting rid of it, I think is going to have the opposite effect and probably isn't going to be as effective as the Australian or even the government in Denmark is making it out to be. Look, and if they are looking to make one of these bans, why not just do what has been seemingly impossible to do in places like Canada in a meaningful way and ban the use of cell phones while kids are at school? Just make that a national ban. I mean, we've seen that at schools where you cannot have your phone from the time you get there to the time you're done, that the positive metrics go up and the negative metrics go down.

And then look, if families want to regulate this on their own once their kids are home, they have the right to do that. But when kids are at school, like I've said before, Wyatt, the goal of a teacher, the role of a teacher is diametrically opposed to what a phone does. A phone isolates somebody. A phone causes a spike in violent behavior. It makes them not pay attention. And all of those things are exactly the opposite of what teacher's supposed to do. And there's 30 phones for every teacher. So who do you think is going to win that battle?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, again, being a student myself, I think I'm a little bit different. I go to an independent school, so they've been able to actually enforce it a lot better. What is the band like at your school? Yeah, so I was just going to say, so from the morning when the bell rings that, 50 to when school is over at 3.30, if they see a phone, they take it, they put in the principal's office, you can get it at the end of the day, and it's very strictly enforced, and young people talk to each other. My friends will, you know, talking about their assignments and they're doing,

and that's not to say that phones aren't like, you know, some people don't keep them or use them during the day, but if they are caught walking in a hallway with it or if they're caught, you know, in class with it, then the teacher will take it away and they'll give it to the principal, and then they'll go and get it. Were there any parents that pushed back and said, I need to be able to get in touch with my child, which I think is such a nonsense, selfish perspective. But I've heard that. I mean, I don't want to say no. Like, I'm sure there has been.

But in my experience, I think the school has kind of just done a good job at saying it's interfering with student learning. They're not coming to school to, you know, talk with people, but they're coming to school to just, you know, interact with people. And they're coming to school to kind of showcase to people their knowledge. And, you know, the point of school is education and the point of school is learning. So I think the amount of interference from parents has been limited, but not to say that there hasn't been any.

Well, listen, my friend, I want to thank you so much for joining us. Always appreciate your perspective. If I don't talk to you before Christmas, I wish you a very merry Christmas, and good luck with everything, and please come back soon. Thank you so much, you too. Yeah, I don't know why it's so hard to ban, really ban phones in schools.

If that were me, like, that's the low-hanging fruit. Do that before you worry about a national ban on social media with kids. The phones are banned at my daughter's school. Sure, but how effective are those bans? I mean, the kids go into the bathrooms. Yeah, but they, exactly. But if the teachers see them, they should take them. And that's it.

End of story. And if they do it three times, you lose your phone altogether. I want to stamp myself one of the best players to ever play this game. Wednesdays on Global. That's how you do it. This is their moment. The lying. The backstabbing.

I'm excited to do it. Canada's number one reality show. This is a highly venomous snake. I'm worried about his life at this point. We both aren't afraid to be killers. I'm the puppet master. She was Karen. This is Survivor.

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