The Ben Mulroney Show - A conversation with Brooke Goldstein from The Lawfare Project - the truth from Gaza

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

- Brooke Goldstein Executive director & FOUNDER of The Lawfare Project If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Everything good to say about America and about the Glasgow Humanitarian Foundation. Hamas? Hamas. Hamas. Hamas. Huh? This is the Ben Mulrooney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show.

Thank you so much for being here. All right. You've heard me on this show. As a matter of fact, there's a clip of me that has been leveraged by, what do I say? A person who cause plays as a journalist, I guess they have bills to pay this week, so they're leveraging my work to pay their bills. And I'm glad they are. And I challenged a caller on our show once who posited as fact that there is a genocide being perpetrated by Israel on the people of Gaza. And I cut them off and I said I don't indulge in conversation with people who say the earth is flat and I'm not going to engage in that. It's wrong. It's not rooted in fact. It's a lie. So anyway, yeah. So there's some people who are trying to weaponize what I see is the truth against me. Okay. And like I said, if you can feed yourself because of the work I've done, I'm glad to have helped you. But I haven't been to Israel yet, although I am going at the end of November. I want to see certain things with my own eyes. Fortunately, we're joined now by somebody who took it upon herself to not just go to the region, but to go specifically to challenge this increasing blood liable against Israel. to see the food and to see the supply chains and to understand exactly what's going on.

So please welcome to the show, Brooke Goldstein, executive director and founder of the Lawfare Project. Brooke, welcome the show. Ben, it's really great to be here with you today. Thank you so much. Thank you for your truth telling. Thank you for your moral clarity.

It is greatly appreciated and needed right now. Well, thank you very much. Okay, so look, you've got people saying, look, just a few days ago at the Emmys, Javier Bardem, wearing his kaffiaa, that was clearly, He's clearly positioned on his body by a stylist to make it look just so, said that he's using this fiction of genocide to say he's never going to work with anybody who has any ties to Israel.

And so like this, and last week they tried to use this organization of the world's greatest genocide scholars. All you need is 25 bucks in an internet connection. you can be one of these people to say that it was true. That didn't work. So now the UN is saying that there's a genocide. So clearly this is very important to win the hearts and minds of the world to feed us this lie. And I keep calling it a lie. But you were there.

So what did you see on the ground? It was the purpose of your trip. Where did you go? What did you see? Okay. So first of all, I was very fortunate to be one of the few civilians who's been let into Gaza since the beginning of the war, I was invited by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is the only organization that is feeding the civilians of Gaza.

You know, it's really ironic that the United Nations is the one accusing Israel of genocide when it is the United Nations itself that is working directly with Hamas, specifically through UNRWA, the United Nations Relief Works Agency, even before the war, UNRWA partnered with Hama, Hamas. It allowed Hamas to take over its schools in Gaza. It allowed Hamas to recruit children from its schools for suicide homicide attacks. And now the United Nations has made its mission, especially since the start of the war, to feed Hamas directly. The stats are astounding. 93.5 percent of all of the aid that is delivered by the United Nations is diverted,

given to or stolen by Hamas. Hamas then uses this food as a weapon against its own people. It sells the food at the markets at a very inflated rate, and it uses the funds to pay for its terrorist fighters. Now, the reason why Hamas came out and declared that we have to stop the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation as a part of a ceasefire deal is because the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is the only disruptor in Gaza. It is the only organization that's ensuring that the people of Gaza be fed directly. And I went there and I went there at great personal risk to my safety because I wanted to see for myself and document. And I witnessed thousands of Gazans being fed directly, food going directly into the hands of Gazans. There is no food shortage in Gaza. There is no famine.

There is a food distribution problem. And that's why the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, has come in and is taken care of it. What have they been able to do, Brooke? What, let's drill down because I've heard, I've heard criticisms leveled against the Gaza humanitarian foundation. Obviously, there would be from a certain type of person. But what have they been able to do? Where do they come from?

How are they able to inject themselves into this situation and do things differently and move beyond the roadblocks, literal, as well as symbolic roadblocks that are placed in front of them by the UN and as well as Hamas? Well, they are a third-party independent nonprofit organization. They've been given permission, both by the United States government and by the Israelis, to operate within the green zone, which is areas that the IDF has secured where Hamas is not operating, where Hamas doesn't have its strongholds, and to deliver food, it has completely cut out these third-party corrupted NGOs that are smuggling drugs, that are smuggling weapons.

that are smuggling food to the terrorist groups, there have been zero casualties on the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sites. You know, one of the most important things to understand about the war in Gaza, it's a physical battlefield, yes. However, it is a propaganda battle. It is a media battle. It is a lawfare battle. And part of that propaganda, Hamas, plays a huge role in. They constantly send out messages to the Ghazan civilians trying to discourage them from attending the sites. They have thrown a grenade into the site, one of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation workers, security personnel at risk to his life, took the grenade and was able to throw it away. They saved the women. Hamas tried to orchestrate a stampede on one of the sites. Again, there were only injuries and no deaths. Not one shot has been fired.

The Gazan civilians who were volunteering themselves to aid the food distribution, a bus was hijacked by Hamas. Over a dozen of those Ghazans were murdered by Hamas. They were slaughtered. Then the wounded were taken to the Nasser Hospital where supposedly the Doctors Without Borders Organization is operating. They refused to treat them and they let them die in the courtyard because that is what happened. under Hamas rule. The Gazan civilians are being held hostage. They're being used as civilian human shields. And they are being deliberately starved by the Hamas terrorist organizations when they can feed their terror. And you know, so we've got just a couple of minutes, not a little less than a

couple of minutes left. I want to talk about, you know, the trip itself and what you saw and I want to go methodically through it. I think it's important for our listeners to get a sense of where you were, what you saw. But, you know, I got to say I'm, I'm, I'm, as somebody on this side of the pond, can only go with what I see that's fed to me. I have seen some of the videos that may be related to what you just described, Brooke, and I have relayed that. I've said, I just saw a video of Hamas fighters shooting innocent civilians in the back because they had just been given a bag of rice.

That's what I saw. And the fact that we're living in a time where people will say as full-throatedly as possible, that's not what you saw you're a liar you're a supporter of genocide is i i just don't know i don't know brook if the facts are going to be enough i i wish that you i wish that you coming here and telling people what you saw would be enough and it's i know it's not going to be and i find that frustrating i'll let you give me a comment and then we'll we'll take a quick break so so what was so interesting is i got to to talk to the people of gaza themselves and you saw a small clip of it in the intro. They do not like Hamas. They are very open. They are willing to talk on

camera. They tell you the greatest mistake that Israel made, they said to me, was the 2005 disengagement when Israel pulled all of its civilians out of Gaza and basically handed it over to the people there, and they elected Hamas. The people understand that Hamas is the reason why they are experiencing what they are experiencing. So I encourage people to watch those videos. I met with United Nations truck drivers. I met with 12 of them. Two days later, one of those trucks was set on fire and the truck driver was burnt alive

for trying to distribute aid to the guzzan. All right, Brooke, we're going to take a quick break. This is the most important point, though. Hold the most important point until after the break because we're going to take a quick break. I've got more with Brooke Goldstein, the executive director and founder of the Lawfare project. She went, she saw with her own eyes,

what is going on on the ground in Gaza. There is no genocide. Come on back and we'll explain it more. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney's show. And we're having a conversation with Brooke Goldstein of the Lawfare Project, who went to Gaza to see what the state of play was in terms of the supply chain. For all the food that's supposed to be getting into Gaza, that isn't getting into Gaza,

where does the responsibility lie? You're not going to find anybody who doesn't, at least not me in my world, that doesn't have a tremendous amount of empathy for the plight of the innocent Palestinian people. But who deserves the blame for that plight? And part of that is the conversation around feeding those poor people. So Brooke decided to go down there and see it for herself. And Brooke, you were laying it out for us before you said you had one more key important point to give us before the break.

Yes, and I think you teach it up quite well. If you have empathy for the Gazan civilians, you must support the humanitarian relocation of these civilians so that they will not continue to be used as human shields and as hostages by Hamas. So break that down for me, Brooke. How does that happen? Because, again, I haven't been there. I've only seen what I've seen.

I was under the impression that they were walled in on all sides and can't go anywhere. That's funny. Gaza has two borders, one with Egypt. Egypt refuses them to allow passage and another with Israel. And Israel has allowed them passage and continues to allow them passage. It's the international community. And it's leaders who want to politicize the conflict. They want to make sure there are civilian casualties in Gaza.

so they can use it as a legal and media and blood libel war to destroy the Jewish state. That is the strategy. If you oppose the Gaza's right to claim refugee status to leave Gaza so that Israel can finish the job, then you are the one actually supporting the genocide of the Ghazan people. You are the one insisting they remain there and be used by Hamas as human shields, because that is what is going on. Okay, so tell me that plan, the relocation plan, what would be involved in that? Well, there have been thousands, thousands of Gaz and civilians who are applying for visas

in other countries who are wanting to get out. Those countries, some of them have actually accepted the visas, and now it's a matter of how to get them out. They've been coming out a couple thousand at a time, but there's a whole system that is there to prevent them from leaving. You have the NGOs that are not assisting them. You have people exerting political pressure on heads of state not to receive them. Now, I understand the notion that you don't want radicalized Islamist people coming into Western democracies. How about all of the other Arab nations, all of the Muslim states surrounding Israel?

How about Jordan? They should all be welcoming Ghazan refugees into their countries. Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but up until the 1960s, what, 60s, every Palestinian had a Jordanian passport. So I don't, surely a return to their homeland, at least temporarily, would be make a little sense. Well, yeah, I mean, Jordan is basically the so-called Palestinian state that we're all being told to create when, you know, the original. Sykes-Pico agreement came and was drafted. Israel included all of Trans-Jordan. The world said, well, we needed two-state solution.

The Arabs are protesting and give half of Israel to the Arabs, and the Jews take the other half. And that's what they did. They divided the mandate for Palestine. They divided the geographic location that was to be Israel into. They created Jordan. They put the Heshamite king there. Oh, no.

We're not going to go back into the history. I want to stay in the here and now. And there was something that you said in the previous segment where, you know, we talked about the people, that Hamas is hiding amongst the people. And you talk to some civilians who, if they voted for Hamas, they probably regret that they ever voted for Hamas. But I also hear on the, depending on the day, I'll hear somebody saying, you know, the one thing that we haven't seen a whole lot of is ordinary, regular Ghazan citizens. snitching on Hamas or helping out saying, hey, there's a fighter in apartment building next door, Israel, and you might want to know that. So the question I have is, are, is Hamas hiding amongst the Ghazans or are the Ghazans hiding Hamas? Well, first of all, I just want to go back to the point.

We have to understand history. History is so important because otherwise we're just repeating the same mistakes and this whole false premise that we need to create. create a Palestinian Islamist state is what rewards terror. It's been done. We did it in 2005. You know, October the 7th didn't happen because the Palestinians didn't have a state. It happened because they had a state, and that was the Hamas-run state of Gaza. We also gave them Jordan.

And so this continued insistence that will peace will come when the Jews continue to give up land while the Muslims are indoctrinating their children from infancy to a violent version of radical Gihad, which by the way has come over to Canada and the United States and is now infused in our K through 12 educational system and... Oh, I know. Oh, yeah, I cover that as well. But no, I only have a few more minutes

with you and I really do want to I want to spend time with you on what you saw and because the videos that I saw it looked like football fields upon football fields of pallets upon pallets of food. There was just sitting there rotting in the desert sun and

right. Now, I have to assume that there was a plan for that food to there was a supply chain that we I guess they they anticipated would work what was the sticking point was it that Hamas didn't want that food coming in at all no no no no no okay the plan has always been always has been the United Nations delivers the food right into the hands of Hamas you've seen the videos right so what Israel and the United States did under the Trump administration was finally say, enough is enough. We are literally feeding the enemy

so that it can engage in a perpetual conflict, maximize civilian casualties. We're looking at a 20-plus year, God forbid, Vietnam-style war if the civilians remain in Gaza and we continue to fund and feed Hamas. Well, it fights the idea. That was the plan to destroy Israel

through this type of Vietnam-like war. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation came in as the disruptor. And that's why you see everybody jumping up and down, spreading lies about the foundation, trying to take the foundation down. If you are allegedly an activist for the Ghazan people, how could you possibly be against the only organization that is feeding civilians because they want to prop up Hamas? That's what this is all about. And so how many days were you there for, Brooke?

So I was there for a couple hours one morning. So I went through the south and went directly to one of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sites. I was able to tour the site before they allowed the civilians to come in. I witnessed the feeding of about 14,000 people that day, including 3,300 women. It was quite orderly. There was no violence. The people were extraordinarily grateful, not just to the foundation, but to the United States. They kept coming up to the camera and saying, we love America, we love Trump, thank you for helping us.

We hate Hamas. Hamas is evil. Hamas is bad. If only the international media had the same moral clarity as these Ghazan civilians who are risking their lives speaking to me on camera. Because what Hamas has done is tracked down the individuals who are speaking to the international press and television, them what's really going on and kill them, kill them and threaten them, which is why I also blurred out the faces of the civilians that I spoke to. Well, Brooke, I want to thank you so much for being here. Hopefully when I make my trip, I'll be able to see at least some version, probably not there where you went, because, of course, it's very difficult for you to even have gotten in.

But I'm going to do my research on my end, so I can come back and speak with more authority on this matter that means so much to me. And I think the majority of Canadians, they just happen to be quiet. And it's maybe time for them to raise their voices. But Brooke, I want to thank you very much. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your week. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

I mean, when I saw these videos, I thought, oh, this is going to change things. People are going to now see. There's Hamas shooting someone in the back when they're trying to get some rice. And then, no, the mob came for me. So it's- Well, you heard her from somebody who was right there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad we had her.

Obviously, she was clearly making it up, right? Yeah, making the whole thing up. So AI for all those videos. Hey, thank you so much for joining us today on the Ben Mulroney show. If you want to keep the conversation going, you know what to do. Follow me on Twitter at Ben Mulroney. Follow the show on Instagram at Ben Mulroney's show. We'll post the podcast.

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