The Ben Mulroney Show - A great chat with Sarah McLachlan

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

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the incredible, the wonderful Canadian, incredible musician, pioneer on so many fronts, such a great institution in this country, it means so much to so many people. Please welcome to the show, Sarah McLaughlin. Hi. It's so great to see you again. Before we start, so that's new music,

and we're going to talk about the new music in just a moment. The song is better broken. A new album is better broken as well, and it comes out on September 19th. But I was thinking back, as soon as I heard that you were coming on the show, and I'm so glad to see you again,

because we go way, way back. One of the first interviews I probably did with anybody who mattered to me was you, and it was 24 years ago, and we were talking about the launch of your music school in Vancouver. So it's almost a quarter-century young. I can't believe it's been 24 years. Yeah. So how's it doing?

Tell everybody about it. Well, it is a free after-school music and mentorship program for at-risk and underserved children and youth that started in Vancouver with a pilot project of 200 kids. It's now over 1,200 students a year across three different schools, Vancouver and New Westminster at Douglas College and McKeown University in Edmonton. And it's completely free, always has been, always will be. And it's incredible.

I have so much pride. I mean, I love this place so much. I love that we get to give kids music. I mean, it gave me so much growing up. I mean, honestly, still continues to save me every day. So to know that I can give a lot of kids the same, and for similar opportunities that I had growing up to have music in my life is profoundly important.

And the fact that it was 25 years ago, it means I'm sure you've heard stories of what people did with that education that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten and the lives that they've built. I mean, you must have enriched so many kids' lives through music. Thousands and thousands. Yeah.

And I mean, our MO is not to, you know, it's not about the exams or, you know, pursuing, you know, the instrument to excellence. Yet, that being said, a small percentage of the kids do want to, and they go, like, we've got full scholarships to Berkeley School of Music, things like that, people, young people now pursuing musical careers, but also just becoming well-rounded humans who have EQ, who have empathy, who have understanding of working together

and being vulnerable together, which I think, you know, is incredibly important in our society to be able to be open and curious with each other. Sarah, why do you think it's so hard to get sort of entrenched powers and sort of governments when we talk about public schools and stuff to appreciate what you just said. I mean, there are study after study after study that talks about the importance of music. I mean, they do brain scans of young people when they hear music and they're parts of their brain that light up like the 4th of July and those are not the parts of the brain that are activated in math or in science or in tests.

Like, why is it, why when when push comes to shove, if something's going to go the way the dodo bird, it's music education? It's music education. It's arts education. It's sports. It's all those extracurriculars. Yet, you know, those were the only thing that kept me in school. Yeah.

And I think those are also the things that, again, allow for social, emotional growth, which is really, really important for our, you know, holistic well-being. You're in town for a number of reasons. One, we got this new album. It's been 11 years. Yeah, I know. And you said music saves you every day. So why not make new music in the past 11 years?

What was it about this time in your life? I was making new music. It was just, you know, parceled with a lot of big distractions. I had two teenage daughters. I was a fall on dance mom. I was also kind of the principal fundraiser off the side of my desk for the school for many years. And I was continuing to do shows as well. So I was wearing a number of hats and kind of kept my toe in the water.

But just I needed to amass enough material. And that just took longer than I thought of it, I guess. So what does this, what does this album say? where what does it and if people are are being reintroduced to Sarah after so many years what are they going to learn from you in this album well you know there's no reinventing the wheel i've always written from an emotional point of view and also just you know from dealing with challenges in my own life and songwriting's always been very cathartic and like therapy for me so it's just a continuation of these are postcards of times in my life um but also you know i i guess i'm a little more a little more overtly political on this record than i ever have been before because I feel like this is a time where as women, we cannot be complacent. As humans, we cannot be complacent. We have to stand up for what we believe in and continue to talk and try to keep an open conversation going about how we may have different opinions about things. But we have to keep this discourse alive and not vilify everybody else just for having a different opinion. It feels like we're living in a time where the act of conversation is dead and it's about shouting as loud as you possibly can. And victory is achieved by destroying the other side. Yeah, and we're never going to get anywhere doing that.

It's nobody wins in that situation. I mean, I remember back in the day, I would hear you speaking on one issue or another, and you did so with eloquence and empathy. And it was never about denigrating the other side. And it was never, it was about, okay, how do we find a solution? How do we get to a place where this can be addressed? Yeah, we need some common ground. Like, you know, you have different opinions than I do.

You have different attitudes than I do. I do on a lot of things, I'm sure. But we can have a civilized conversation, and I think if we continue to stay open and curious with each other, we can find some common ground. And I think that's how we move forward. And I know that maybe it feels like a luxurious place to sit when everybody is so angry, and I get the anger.

I understand it. But we have to find a way forward. And I think, you know, we need each other. That's the kind of the bottom line is we kind of need to figure it out together. or it's never going to work. Before we sign off, let's talk about those postcards from your past as you talked about as you're a songwriting. What about the postcard that's taking you all the way back to Lilith Fair? Because you're in Toronto for the premiere of Lilith Fair building a mystery.

The world premiere is happening at the Toronto International Film Festival. I'm so excited. Why are you excited? I'm excited to see it on the big screen for once. I've seen all the, you know, so many edits on my computer and on my little TV. but to see it on a big screen like that, it just feels, it's cinematic and it's grand. And I'm excited for the world to see it again, too,

for a whole new generation to see this amazing thing we created. It was such a moment in time, right? Like, I never went to Lilithera. I know exactly, but it means something to me in my soul. I know exactly what it means. I was listening to your music so much at that time of my life, and it meant so much. And for you, is it, does it make you necessarily?

nostalgic? Does it make you sad for a bygone time? No, generally it makes me feel, I feel full of pride that I got to be part of something like this that really moved the dial forward in so many ways. I think it created an amazing community for us as artists. I think it broke down a lot of barriers within the music industry for women. I think it changed attitudes. I think creating a really safe space for us as artists and for the audiences to, um, you know, to feel free to say, hey, I like all these different kinds of music and that's okay. And we can put all these eclectic artists together. And it all works. What is the state of the music industry for female artists today? Uh, I think it's a whole

lot better than it was. I mean, look at the charts. It's dominated by women. Um, you know, and I, I see so many, you know, like Taylor Swift is an amazing example of just absolutely, I'll have my friendship bracelets. Owning her power, not being afraid of it, you know, being graceful and kind through it all, but going, no, this is who I am. This is what I believe in. I'm fighting for my own rights. I'm fighting for my power.

And I deserve this. I deserve to stand in these rooms with these people. And I'm going to bring all these other people alongside me, all these other women. But you in that moment did that for the younger artists of your generation. And I'm sure that today. there are some of the biggest artists. I'm sure they quote you and they express their admiration for you for doing that back then. Yeah, I mean, I've had conversations with quite a few people.

Brandy Carlyle is another great example. She was considerably younger, you know, a young teenager watching at the gorge. And, you know, she's like, you showed me that you can do anything. And, you know, largely due to that whole thing. This is how I live my life. And she's an absolute champion of women. and other artists and, you know, like creating those communities. Well, Sarah McLaughlin, such a pleasure to see you again and reconnect.

The album is better broken. It's out on September 19th. The premiere of the Lilith Fair Building a Mystery at the Toronto International Film Festival. Congratulations with the school. Congratulations with your daughters. Congratulations with everything. I hope you come back soon. Thank you.

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