The Ben Mulroney Show - A major arrest/online harms/Rocco Rossi's new book

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

GUEST:   Melissa Lantsman / member of Parliament for Thornhill    GUEST:  Rocco Rossi If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ���⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or had a break from survival. Until now, Good Shepherd nonprofit homes sends adults in their care to camp. It helps them heal, breathe, and remember. joy. You can give that moment of peace for just $290 or send a group for $9,500. Give the gift of healing through an escape to the outdoors. Visit good shepherd centers.com and donate today. I'm the boss.

I feel you, Mr. President. Yes, indeed. The president had to say I'm the boss at the G7. I think he wanted everybody to know. And that's how I feel on the Ben Mulroney show every day with intrepid producer Mike Droulet, who seems to think I'm not the boss of the Ben Milers. Actually, I'm not the boss. Mike Ben Dixon is the boss. But that's how it feels. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm actually in Montreal.

If things sound a little different, that's because I'm in Montreal. We are ending the season of the global news program, the West Block. And to close it out, we got the biggest interview I've gotten all year with my. mother. And so I'm in her place in Montreal where we talked about all sorts of things, including philanthropy, political legacy, remembering the leaders of the 1980s, the role that personal relationships play in politics. I asked her what my dad would say to Donald Trump today. And so if you're curious about that, you can tune into the West Block on Global this Sunday. but it was really great to do.

I got paid to come visit my mom. I'm very, very happy about that. Intrepid, how are you holding down the fort there? Yeah, you know, Joy and I are just sitting in here. Joy, sitting on the couch, he's got a couple of drinks going. He's just like, he's watching soccer. Joy, play that Donald Trump clip again, please. Play that clip.

I'm the boss. Yeah, yeah. Listen, the boat. Who's the boss? I'm the boss. But that's the good news that we want to start with. As we've promised you here on the show, the ever-evolving, extremely complex story of the U.S. consulate shooting, the death of that police officer who was serving, executing a warrant, the discovery of a shooter for hire network, all of this time. into multiple shootings of synagogues in Toronto. The potential of the towing industry in Ontario, as well as the potential that this may have ramifications in international terrorism. This whole story is a minute by minute, and we promised you that we would bring you the latest,

as well as try to ask the questions that are probably on your mind. And without rushing to judgment, We don't want to, you know, turn the outrage up to 11 or the concern up to 11. I want to turn the curiosity up to 11 because I have to say in my short time behind the microphone, but I've been on this planet for 50 years. I've never seen a story like this and certainly not in my time following the news in a city like Toronto. But the second suspect wanted in the U.S. consulate shooting was arrested at Pearson Airport. You might remember the name Zara Jabby.

The police issued a warrant following the raid that saw one of their officers shot and killed earlier this week. Well, he was captured at Pearson Airport. There are stories that he surrendered today at Pearson. But Intrepid and I were trying to come up with a synchievous. where that makes any sense. If you're caught at the airport, I mean, you didn't go there to go the relay store or duty-free

and then go home. You surrender to the police, where the police are, unless he showed up at the airport and presented himself to the very first copy saw. But that doesn't really, that really doesn't hold water. Maybe he wanted to just show up there and, you know,

because he wanted to overpay for food and stuff because the prices are higher. I mean, look, in that moment, moment, perhaps he realized the jig is up and put his hands up and said, I surrender. In which case, by the definition of the word, sure, you surrendered, but not until you were surrounded. So that's the story. But to know that this person has been apprehended, again, it should be a feather in the

cap of the police who are trying to close the case on the murder of one of their own, of one of the men who was willing to lay down his life to protect the people of this city, who did lay down his life to protect the people of this city. And so I suspect their investigation is nowhere close to being over, but at least in the case of this one suspect, Zara Jabi, he has been arrested. And let's just remind people about these two handguns again. Like they found two handguns that they have now tied to 27 shootings. Yeah, absolutely.

And so if that's a, so they found those two. What if they find two more? And what if those two are tied to 20 or 30 or 50 crimes? What does that tell you about what we should be focusing on once this case is closed and it goes, it goes before the courts? What does that tell you about what we should do in the future to avoid allowing this? to be duplicated. Do we need to be putting more money at the border? Do we need to be, is this about investing more in our neighborhoods?

Because a lot of these suspects appear to be coming from a particular communities. They're young. They have their lives in front of them. We have to ask ourselves, why are they turning to this as a career choice? Is it? Where are we failing so that we don't feel? fail systemically as it seems like we are now. And there are still many, many questions, which is why we told you we are going to lead

with curiosity. They still don't know who is doing the hiring. Remember, this is the shooter for hire story where we heard that, where a young man was arrested for a murder. And he apparently, I guess he's been cooperating with the police. And the story that he's been telling is a shocking one. where young kids in Toronto, young men in Toronto are being hired via encrypted social media apps and to commit these crimes.

They are being told, they're being told, we'll pay you if you go kill this guy and we need proof of it. And he implicated influential adults in the towing industry in Ontario. And just the expression, influential adults, it just sounds like. the language of a kid, which is one of the saddest parts of this. But one of the most upsetting parts is we still don't know who these influential adults are. However, Ruby Sohota, who is the Secretary of State for Combating Crime, had this to add to the story, which doesn't answer the question, but maybe gets us a little closer to that answer. Take, for example, the shootings at the synagogues that have just happened recently,

Those shooters were paid for hires. Hired by a foreign entity, Mr. Speaker, in our country online. Had we been able to find those shooters sooner, there would be less victims, Mr. Speaker. That's right. So yeah, so Ruby Sohota told the House of Commons that a foreign entity hired gunmen to shoot at Toronto synagogues. And she was linking these attacks, arguing it underscores the need for the government to have their lawful access bill, which would expand police and ceasist surveillance powers. That's a whole other kettle of fish that we'll be delving into at a later date.

But because it's the synagogue shootings and because there was a suspect that was caught on a wiretap by the FBI talking about these things and because he had ties to international terrorism, could she be talking when she says foreign entities? Could she be talking about an Islamic terrorist group? Could she be talking about a state that sponsors terrorism? And when I say that, most of us think Iran. We don't know at this point. Now, the U.S. authorities have tied the consulate shooting to an alleged Iraqi extremist who has IRGC links. So right there, you got two big players that could be up on our suspect board.

The police have not confirmed any foreign actor connection. Investigations continue into suspects, seized weapons, and who is ultimately financing the attacks. But as we've told you, we will keep coming back to this story because there are still so many parts of this to explore and understand. But we promise you, this is not one of these stories where we are going to fly off half-cocked and make bold and brash assumptions. We are learning about it in real time with you. We are going to try to make sense of it in real time with you. That is a commitment of this show to you, our listeners. When we come back, great friend of the show,

Conservative MP, Melissa Lansman joins us. There is a rise, a surge in online scams. How can we protect our most vulnerable about handing over their money to liars and scammers? She thinks she's got a solution next right here on the Benmorety show. Well, a few years ago, my mother got receipt a phone call. and the person on the other side of the other side of the phone call said that they were my brother saying that he had been arrested and he needed my mother to send money quick or he was going to

be going away for a long long time and her maternal instinct kicked in you know protect the baby protect the baby and so she drove to the bank as quick as she could and she came very close to pulling out some money before the panic subsided and she decided you know I'm just going to call my son's phone and see if he picks up. And sure enough, my brother picked up and he was nowhere near a jail. And she realized in that panic, she probably could have noticed that that was not his voice. My mom's a smart, smart woman. And she's nothing, she's not anything that I would say resembles vulnerable. And with the advent of AI and the ability to mimic anyone's voice in real time, scammers are getting even more sophisticated. And they are able to target

people more surgically and they are able to separate good and decent and vulnerable people from the money that they depend on, the money that they've earned and the money that is theirs. Well, our next guest believes she may have a solution to that problem, or at least the punishment to fit that solution in the form of a bill being introduced in the House of Commons. Please welcome. Conservative MP, Melissa Lansman. Welcome. Thanks for having me, Ben.

Yeah, so talk to me about Bill C28. Your mom's story is the story of so many, except for, you know, they probably didn't get to make that call. And they got scammed out of a lot of funds. And more importantly, they got scammed out of their economy and their independence. And in a lot of cases, like sometimes they're life savings. So I've heard these stories from coast to coast. And even when we sent out an email yesterday, so much came back.

and people don't want to tell you about it because they're embarrassed by it. Yeah, of course. So what I did is put forward a line. It's a bill. It's called the Protection Against Online Fraud Act, and it does a couple of things. You see, a lot of these scams happen on social, and you've seen like that AI slop that's out there. The picture of the prime minister asking you to invest in a fund,

that stuff starts to look real. So we want to make sure that these tech companies are accountable for all of that harmful and fraudulent content being posted on their platforms. And we're going to try to require them to prevent and remove that content, to notify users who have clicked on it when they are notified of others who have been scanned, and really to communicate proactively about the transparency, about the threats online, transparently about the threats online. And then here's one thing that I thought that we should do,

because the criminal code needs a revamp when it comes to digital crimes. Just to reflect how predatory these online scams are, we are going to try to require judges to consider age and health and financial situation and as aggravating circumstances when they sentence these online scammers because this happens to a whole lot more seniors than anyone else. Yeah. So you're going to be looking. You're going to ask the judges to say, look at this person. They're on a fixed income. They have health issues. They perhaps live alone.

They don't have that support network. this person was targeted. And they can do that now. These guys using AI, they can scrape the internet and they can say fine. Like they can make a list tailored to the exact type of victim that they want, someone who lives alone, someone who's got, I don't know, doesn't have a big online footprint, which would suggest that they're not very adept at technology or social media. And this is not a small problem, Melissa.

I mean, this is Canadians lost. Like, they lost 600. $38 million in 2024, which is a 300% increase in under five years. And they say that that's only about 5 to 10% of what's actually being reported because people are kind of embarrassed to talk about this. And I get that. So I think the number is much, much longer. It's much, much more pervasive.

And these platforms that are hosting this, they get clicks off of that. They make money off of those scans. So it's time to hold them accountable for stuff that's really happening out there that no one's talking about. So what has to happen for this bill to become a law? Well, we've got to go through the process, which seems long and drawn out. And we'll have tons of meetings over the summer with people that have been affected by this with organizations who have been pushing this. My idea was to introduce it before the summer. So we've got some runway before the House of Congress.

comes back in September and we can take it through the process. It can go to committee. We're open to all kinds of amendments. We just think that this is the common sense thing to do. And we hope that every MP in the House hears the stories on the ground and supports this as a real measure to protect the most vulnerable out there. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get cross-party support here. This feels like it's in the wheelhouse of every, every major party. in the House of Commons? Well, it certainly feels like everybody has somebody or more than somebody in their writings who, you know, who were affected by this. But the House Commons is a weird place and sometimes it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But we're going to try to get

cross-party support for this. And hopefully the, you know, the government moves on making this law. We've got to take it through the Senate. And again, all kinds of amendments are welcome. If you're listening and you're in this space and this has happened to you, reach out. If you're one of the organizations that thinks they can make this bill better, we're open to that too. I'm talking with Melissa Lansman of the Conservative Party talking about tougher penalties for people who take advantage of other people online. And I wanted to go in that direction with this next question. We don't have a lot of time left, but you brought up tougher penalties for criminals who target vulnerable people. And with this developing shooter for hire story, it appears that we're discovering a network of very, very, very bad actors who happen to be adults preying on vulnerable young people to have them do their criminal bidding.

And it feels to me like not only do we need to reopen the debate on the efficacy of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, but there have to be significant penalties for the offense of inducing a young person, a young man into this violent lifestyle. What are your thoughts as this story develops? It's still early, but we're getting a sense of some dynamics at play. No doubt. No doubt that the penalties have to have actual teeth because this keeps happening over and over again. But make no mistake, it's been 11 years, and the government's not a bystander in this. They let in terrorists into this country. They built a catch-and-release bail system, so these shooters, one was on bail, one was on probation, can get out.

they've stopped the mandatory minimums for things like drive-by shootings. And now we learn that a foreign regime is responsible. Literally, a foreign government paid people to shoot up a synagogue and a consulate, and the government knew about it. So I think you need to scrub this. You certainly need answers from the government on this, and you need to close the loopholes in the law, so this stops happening. Yeah.

And what are your thoughts? Are we ever going to see this government open? up the Youth Criminal Justice Act. It was never intended to be a cheat code for gangs to get young people who are treated differently by the criminal justice system to be able to escape what they would face were they to commit that crime. I mean, look, like I think the answer is no and we're going to push for it, but they've weakened criminal justice laws. They, they've slashed all kinds of penalties and they offered zero accountability to foreign actors who have taken advantage of this loophole. We don't.

want to have a foreign age registry for foreign actors that are that are carrying this out on our on our soil we don't know who they are or how much money they're spending here we've got lots of loopholes to close uh to close in order to keep our streets safe but one thing is uh for sure uh that i think that we need answers about who knew when they knew uh and why nobody's doing anything about it Melissa lansman of the conservative party uh the bill is a c 288 uh please come back Does this thing gains momentum? We'd love to champion something like this. Yeah, absolutely.

Looking forward to it. Thanks for having me. All right. When we come back, a very, very interesting conversation. One of the nicest guys, one of the most civic-minded people you'll ever meet, who has gone on an adventure, the likes of which need to be talked about on this show. Rocco Rossi joins us next right here on the Ben-Mority show. The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV

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Welcome back to the Benmoor Rooney Show. Thank you so much for joining us. I want to say thank you so much for joining us on wherever, whatever platform you find us on. Right now, I'm finding you from my mother's apartment in Montreal. So if the show sounds a little different, that will explain it away. So put yourselves back in the pandemic. I'm wondering what was it,

2019, 2019, we were striving, we're struggling for content, right? We were looking for stuff to watch and I stumbled upon a Martin Sheen movie called The Way. And it was directed by his son, Emilio Estavez, and it was about a boy, or a man,

who passes away, free-spirited man, who passes away and his father has to go collect his things when he goes to Spain. His son was about to embark on a walk along the Camino de Santiago, which is a vast network of ancient pilgrim roots

that people will embark upon for any number of reasons. It might be personal, it might be spiritual, it might be religious, but it is the story that I followed in this movie and I found deeply moving. So when I found out that our next guest had walked the Camino not just once, but several, to the tune of 14,000 kilometers since 2002. I had to find out what it meant to him.

So please welcome to the show. A good friend of mine, Rocco Rossi. Rocco, welcome. Great pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. So how did you come across the communa? How did it collide with you in your life? It came to me at an incredibly low moment in my

In my life, I'd been a senior executive and a global beer company, and we were going public and my boss, my mentor of the time, and I went to Belgium to present to our board. Big celebration as only beer executives can celebrate. He and I were to have breakfast the next day, only tragically died in his sleep of a massive coronary, age 44, two kids in school with my son and my world spiraled out of control. Long story short, I was coming back from a meeting in the subway, saw Labat ad in the car, and broke down. And every single person walked out of the car at the next stop because they saw the big guy having a psychotic incident. And there beside me was a newspaper article from the Toronto Star of a reporter who'd walked the Camino to Santiago.

I called him up. We had lunch. And the next week, I was on a plane to Pamplona. I walked a thousand kilometers. And I haven't looked back since. It's been an annual event for me since then. What was that conversation about that forced you to get out of your life here and go walk through Spain? What did he say was the appeal? Yeah, you know, for millennia, wise people have been saying that the unexamined life is not worth living. And unfortunately, our day-to-day lives don't allow us to do a whole lot of introspection, a whole lot of thinking. and one of the great virtues of this pilgrimage, and virtually every culture has some form of it,

this happens to be a Christian Catholic tradition going back over a thousand years. This gives you the time and space to have the conversations inside yourself to sort through things, and it is become, for me, very much like that, announcement at the beginning of every flight, in case of decompression, masks will fall from the

ceiling. Make sure you put it on yourself before you try to help anybody else. And at least once a year, this is my oxygen mask to re-center and reboot my life. Give our listeners a sense of what it's like on this walk, on the Camino. Well, it can be done in many different ways. But, you know, But essentially, your day is walking, whether it's 20, 25, 30 kilometers. And in my case, I carry my backpack with everything I need for the entire trip. And I stop along the way to have a coffee, eat lunch, and then find a place to sleep for the evening. And that could be a monastery, a church basement, a hostel, or if I want to treat myself on a given night a nice hotel. So when you say find a place to stay, you don't make those plans ahead of time.

This is not like a guided tour. Some people do it that way and to each his own. In my case, I love the spontaneity of being able to just listen to my body. And if I'm feeling strong that day, maybe I go a bit longer or if I come to a beautiful town and something moves me. I want to stop there for the evening and having the ability to not have to spreadsheet the Camino, if you will, helps me enjoy the experience even more. But look, there are lots of people who need to have the security that they're going to find a place at night. And, you know, there have been, in the 23 times that I've done it, I've ended up sleeping

out only two times. Once was on purpose and the other side, the other time was sheer stupidity and I was saved by a local farmer who let me stay in his barn for the evening and served me coffee and a sandwich in the morning. Rocco, I don't want to pigeonhole something that may be far broader than my question, but I hope you take the question, even if it's wrong, take it wherever it it needs to go. Is this something that you do that you would qualify as something for your mental health? Is it for your spiritual health? Is it something for your religious health? Or is it something far beyond that? It's all of the above and more. I mean, again, back to the our day-to-day lives every minute is accounted for. And we wear a variety of

of masks during the day. We have roles in responsibilities as a father, as a husband, as a colleague, as a boss, as an employee, as a neighbor. And on the Camino, all of that gets stripped away. And as you encounter people, they really don't care what kind of a house you live in, what car you drive, how big or important your job is. Are you a decent person to sit down and have a glass of wine with at the end of the day and share something and that's remarkable. Well, you must have met, speaking of remarkable, you must have met some remarkable people for having done this over 20 times. You must know some characters now. Absolutely, and I've learned so much from them. I'll just give you one example and I use it

fictionalized in the novel in finding grace, but I was walking along and came across a flock of sheep, 80, 100 sheep, and there was this beautiful border collie keeping everything in order. And the border collie's master was using a series of whistles to control the dog. And I got up beside the shepherd and we got to talking. It was in his late 60s and clearly absolutely delighted to be a shepherd. And after a while, I asked him, you know, what is it that you love? about being a shepherd because quite frankly it's not exactly a job schools talk about a lot anymore or people are lining up for and he said Rocco I love this this work and I've been a shepherd

since I was four years old at my father's knee and what I love about it is that my work has purpose what I do helps to feed and clothe people I'm not a wealthy man but the milk cheese, wool, and meat that I sell more than meets my needs. I've never wanted for anything. I don't have a boss. I haven't been sick a day in my life. And 365 days of the year, I work outside in the most beautiful countryside in the world. Who wouldn't want to be me?

And as I left, he grabs me by the arm and, you know, he's got a wink in his eye and he lowers his voice and he says, but do me a favor. Don't tell anyone. I don't want it to get crowded out here. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you told that story, and I want to hear the rest of the story after the break. You walked the Camino 23 different times since 2002.

I'm sure you've evolved into a different version of yourself, but one of those versions has become author. So I want to talk to you about that Camino-themed novel. When we come back, Rocker Rossi continues in conversation with us after the break. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands, championing diversity.

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and discover the places and cultures that shaped his story. Save now, give Ancestry DNA from only $69. Offer ends June 21st. Visit Ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. I'm in conversation with Rocco Rossi. You may know him. If you're from Toronto, then you may know him.

He's everywhere. He's a city builder. He's civic-minded. He's worked in politics. He's worked on boards of directions, in philanthropy. And I did not know this about you, Rocco, that for every year since 2002, you've made it a point to go on a pilgrimage through a very important spiritual walk through Spain.

Although it does, correct me if I'm wrong, it does take you, there's multiple routes that one can take on this walk. Absolutely, I mean, think about it. When it began in the Middle Ages, people didn't have planes or buses to get to a starting point other than their own home. And so there are an infinite number of paths

through Europe that, end up in this town in northwestern Spain called Santiago de Campostela, where the church tells us the remains of St. James the Great, or one of the apostles of Christ, is buried. And so people for over a thousand years have started. And there are 80,000 kilometers of marked trail in Western Europe. and I've covered about 14,000 so far, so I've got some work to do it. Yeah. Rocco, before we get to your book, what has your family said, and what of your closest friends said about changes they've noticed in the Rocco Rossi who comes back from these pilgrimage?

Well, look, it's been early in my business career. I was the guy who summed up success as he who dies with the most toys wins. And when I lost a friend, I suddenly realized that, you know, I'd been working my way up the corporate ladder and here I was virtually at the top and I suddenly realized that it was leaning up against the wrong building. And so it was a real opening to thinking about different ways to contribute, different ways to, make a difference. That was really the beginning of my involvement in the not-for-profit sector. I came back and became the CEO of the Heart and Stroke Foundation and tried to make a difference in a different way. And my son has walked with me 10 years ago. We had a spectacular one. And they see me each time

coming back and being restored and being just a better person to be around. Yeah. Rocco, at what point on these multi-year pilgrimage on the Camino, did the idea of turning some of these experiences into a novel occur? Well, I've journaled each of the 23 that I've done, so I had a lot of and I'd written articles for newspapers and magazines along the way and done podcasts. But really, the idea for the novel has been kicking around in my head for almost 20 years, and it was really based on a couple that I was thinking about starting that first Camino with in 2002.

And our schedules just didn't mesh. And when I returned, I learned that as they were crossing a road back in 2002, a drunk driver hit them, and the wife was killed instantly. The husband was in hospital for a while and then returned. And I had read of this ancient tradition whereby someone could walk the Camino on behalf of someone else and receive the blessing in their name when they got to Santiago. So I did that the following year and brought the credenzial, brought the Campostela to the woman's husband. And that idea of what's called in Latin Vicari pro, Camino on behalf of someone became the heart of this novel idea.

And finally, I had the time to work on it. and so Finding Grace is the product of that. Finding Grace is the book. So when is it available and where can people get it? Available right now on Amazon. Look up Finding Grace, Rocco Rossi. And I've just been thrilled by the response. We've only been up for four days.

And it's already in the top 100 and number one in a variety of categories. so thanks to all who've already bought it. If you want more information, I think I know it. Well, yeah. Yeah, you can also go to. I said, I know what I'm going to be reading this summer. Oh, I'm glad.

I'm glad Rocco. Where does this rank in terms of accomplishments in your career? You've tried a lot of things. You've worn a lot of hats so much so that you have no hair anymore. So where does this rank? Look, it's like birthing a child. And so next to the birth of my son, it's one of my proudest moments.

And getting to relive encounters with people, and I'll be it turning it into fictionalized encounters has been an incredible blessing and a labor of love. Well, I'm very, very pleased to have talked to you about that, but I can't let you go, Rocco, without talking to you about, look, you care very deeply about the city of Toronto, the city of Toronto and we are like so many cities going through a mayoral election. And while I have many, many listeners who are not from Toronto, who roll their eyes, what happens

in Toronto affects in a lot of ways the rest of the country. How do you see this race between Olivia Chow, progressive Olivia Chow and centrist Brad Bradford? Well, look, I know both very well. And I'm an enormous fan of Brad's energy and new perspective. And I think that we need new leadership for new challenges. And so very encouraged by what I've seen thus far from Brad. And hopefully he's able to continue that work. As you know, I ran from there back in 2010.

I know what an incredible sacrifice and piece of work it is, but it's also an incredible opportunity to go into every corner of the city, meet with people, see the incredible things that are happening, and I'm certainly always grateful to anyone who puts their name on a sign and puts themselves forward for public service because it is not an easy task and it is absolutely necessary for all of us. This is a massive economy and as you say, what happens in Toronto has ripples throughout the country and so we deserve to get the best leadership possible and so I would have everyone, you know, challenge both of the contenders and ask them the questions you want answered and push for those answers.

You know, you tried your hand at municipal politics. You tried your hand at provincial politics and you were the president of the Liberal Party of Canada. You know all three levels of politics. What, having walked the Camino so much, I would love to spend a day just talking, even off camera and off radio, about lessons that you've learned or things that you've incorporated into who you are from all of these journeys. I guarantee you I have so much to learn for you, just because of this, just because of your desire to take that trip every year.

So what would you tell politicians at all levels of governing Canada, Something that you think, impart wisdom on our ruling class, Marco. That's how I want to end this with you. Real quick. Well, I think the better you know yourself and why you're doing what you're doing, the better you're going to be able to serve. We all carry a lot of baggage. We are imperfect creatures.

God knows I'm as imperfect as they come. And the more we're able to sort through that to get to our authentic motivation, the better able we are to fulfill our various roles in life. So I know everyone is busy and wants to go to even more events and see more people. But having those moments of reflection where you really look inside and say, do I want to be somebody or do I want to do something? And that at the heart of it is what we need. We need servant leadership to succeed in what is an increasingly complicated and challenging world. Rocco Rossi, so great to reconnect with you. I'm so great to have heard this story.

I'm looking forward to reading your book on Amazon. I will search up Rocco Rossi on Amazon. but thank you so much for sharing this incredible story and all the best to you, my friend. Good Camino in La Vida. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up?

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