The Ben Mulroney Show - A rousing affair in Ottawa, transit solutions and the political panel marches on

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

GUEST:  Mark Salsberg is co-founder and chairperson of TRACCS  Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate advisory .  Former vp WestJet Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Tools that make it possible to go from tax question to client comms in minutes. Get better answers to tough questions. BlueJ. AI for tax experts. Back to the Ben Mulring. I should say welcome to the Ben Muler. Rooney show. It's Wednesday. We made it to Wednesday. Thank you so much for joining us. It's the 3rd of December 2025. And look, if you are a consumer of politics the way I am, if you, if you,

you can't get enough, it's, it's everything that you follow. Then, then the, the, uh, the, uh, Ottawa Press Gallery dinner is, uh, something that you pay attention to each and every year. And it's what it is, is all the members of the press that follow what's going on in Ottawa. They get together for a big dinner. And then the leaders show up and they give very funny speeches. A lot of it is poking fun at themselves, poking fun at each other. And it's all in good fun. And to see these people who every other day of the year, as in fact, before the event as well, like on that same day, are cutting each other down in question period and they are trying to attack each other, it is, it is appointment, it is appointment watching. And one of my

favorite clips of all time was of my father. After he was out of politics, Paul Martin was the Prime Minister. And after he had given his speech, he very solemnly announced that there was a video of great national importance that he needed to share with the Ottawa Press Gallery. And then my dad showed up on screen. Now, for context, this happened in the same year as a man by the name of Peter Newman, who is a journalist in Ottawa, one of the least ethical human beings in the history of journalism. Because he and my father had quite a close relationship, and they would talk a lot. And Peter Newman thought that it was an ethical thing to record my father without my dad's

knowledge over the course of years. And then he took those tapes, and he turned them into a book. and he thought this was going to be the greatest book of all time and instead it blew up in his face and everybody called him out rightly as the ass that he was and he got his ass handed to him by so many people. He's a terrible human being and I don't think the book sold and it was garbage

garbage from a garbage human being. But anyway, so my dad comes up on the screen in front of the entire auto press gallery after this book had come out. and he's got a stack of papers in front of him and the camera pushes in on him he says ladies and gentlemen madames and monsieur

senators and senators members of parliament esteemed journalists and he goes on and on and he looks down at this giant stack of papers and he pulls one over and he puts it over and he looks up at the camera he says Peter Newman

go Eiff yourself. Thank you and good night. The camera pulls out and that's it. That's it. I watched that clip at any time I need a good laugh. It is so perfect. The timing is amazing. And everybody loved it. Everybody loved it. And so let's fast forward to this year's Ottawa Press Gallery dinner where all the leaders got up. And everybody had a moment. Pierre Poliev was really good. And the prime minister was actually really good. Really leaning into his persona. It was quite funny.

But nobody, and I mean nobody, can hold a candle to interim leader of the NDP, Don Davies. You'll remember in the last election, NDP did not acquit themselves very well, found themselves with very few seats, and he's in charge of stewarding this party

while they search for a new leader. Let's listen to just a little bit of Don Davies and his perfect comic timing. Ms. Don Davies, and my pronouns are broke and irrelevant. I was originally given three minutes for my remarks, but I negotiated an extra minute in exchange for propping up the liberals, and an extra two for keeping the conservatives out of an election.

The last election was tough for new Democrats, despite having a hip, fit, and well-dressed leader. So in choosing an interim leader, we're going to go in a different direction. He goes on. He goes on. At one point, he looks at Yves Francois Blanchette, the leader of the Bloch-Cquois. He says, after Eve's speech, he goes, Jesus, Eve, that was one hell of a speech. made me want to vote for independence. It's really good. If you haven't, go to YouTube, search up all the leaders.

They all did a really good job. And it's a nice cleansing tonic from the battles, the verbal battles that we see every day. And it reminds you that there's a shred of humanity in each of them, or at least they recognize a shred of humanity in each other. And I think it's important to be able to watch these speeches to go. gain an appreciation of the actual work that they end up doing. So let's go back to that work because it was a testy day in Ottawa. Pierre Polyeva and Mark Carney went at it.

And look, I oftentimes say that Pierre Polyeves is great in the House of Commons and that was a great job. But in this one instance, I think Mark Carney got the best of him in this one interaction. Let's listen. He promised during the election he would double home building to 500,000 units per year. Today, the parliamentary budget officer revealed that his. brand new bureaucracy will only build 5,000 homes per year, 99% less than he promised, Mr. Speaker, after conservatives built well over 200,000 homes at half the cost today,

why won't he listen to us and stop building bureaucracy so that we can start building homes? The right, vulnerable prime minister. Mr. Speaker, the great thing about being a lifelong member of parliament is you've never built anything, and you don't know members. True. All right. Now look, both men got in a good jab. I think the promise that the liberals were going to build at a speed, the likes of which we haven't seen since. the end of World War II.

That's a lofty goal. And they need to come pretty gosh darn close to that in order for that promise to be viewed as a promise made and a promise kept. But federal spending on housing is set to drop over the next three years. The PBO, the parliamentary budget office, does project that federal housing spending

is going to drop 56% over three years, starting at $9.8 billion and going down to $4.3 billion. And that is despite the liberal promises of a major housing plan, several programs are expected to expire without any clear renewal plans. So what are we going to do? And you'll remember that our prime minister promised, yes, a new bureaucracy called Build Canada Homes. It's an agency that receives $7.3 billion over five years.

But it's only expected to add 26,000 units. Like, that's not a lot. That falls far short of the government's goal to double housing construction. 73 billion over five years, adding only 26,000 units. Again, I complained about this during the election campaign. How about you find a way to loosen the reins, the regulatory rains, the taxation on home builds and home purchases, and let the people actually know how to build homes, home builders, build more homes. feels to me like that's where the choke point is.

The issue wasn't, you know, you know what is really going to speed up home building is a new government bureaucracy. That's what we need. And so, again, this goes back to what I said we discovered during the budget process of like, what is the vision of this liberal government? And it feels to me like the vision of this liberal government is that there is no problem that the government doesn't feel it should have a hand in. solving, including the problems that they cause themselves.

And I, I, as somebody who's center-centered left, feels that the best way to solve a lot of problems, not all of them, but a lot of them, is for the government to get out of the way and let people do what they need to do. That's a fundamental belief of mine that we need less government in a lot of places. We do need a lot of government in certain places. But generally speaking, we have too much government with too much government. with too much of a say over too many things

and if build Canada homes without having, I mean they just got out of the starting blocks you're telling me that over five years they're going to get $7.3 billion and going to build 26,000 homes that is not what was promised and listen in a year from now

we're going to see how much the executives and build Canada homes earned and it ain't going to be pretty all right, why do we need to chew, choose a better way to run our transit projects. That's next.

Yesterday on the show, if you're a listener or a viewer from Toronto, then you might have gotten excited to learn that we are, we have finished the final phase of testing of the Cross Town Eggleton LRT, this massive transit line that has been under construction since 2011. And right before the break, I was like, how much did it cost? I asked Google how much it cost. The estimated total cost of the Eglinton Cross Town LRT is $13.8 billion. Now, that does include 30 years of maintenance, but it is significantly higher than the $9 billion when construction began. So from $9 billion to $13, that's a sizable increase, never mind how much extra time it took to build this thing.

we've got a guest joining us now who says that we're spending a ridiculous amount of money on transit rail and there are ways to bring those costs down and given how important transit is to building the cities of the future to building environmentally conscious cities of the future to building communities and creating that social cohesion make us buy into this belief that these cities are actually working I think this is an important conversation to have So please welcome to the show, Mark Salzberg. He's the co-founder and chairperson of Tracks, which represents more than 100 respected Canadian companies that build, operate, plan,

and manage large transit rail projects across the country with over 100 members across Canada and around the world, including transit agencies in Canada. That is a mouthful, but all that to say, this is somebody who knows what he's talking about. Mark Salzberg, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me. Big fan, and my family is very excited to listen.

Well, thank you. Oh, no, my pleasure. Listen, and these are really important conversations. I know I just referenced a Toronto transit project, but these are, you know, these are how we build rail, transit rail across the country is going to determine the success of our cities as we, as they grow and as time goes on. I mean, having a robust transit network is essential to attracting world-class talent

and keeping and retaining people in these cities. And when I read that Canada spends up to $1.2 billion per kilometer on transit rail compared to a quarter million, $250 million per kilometer in Europe, I got to ask, what are we doing wrong? It's a great question, and it keeps me up at night every once in a while. But I think there's a lot of hope and there's a lot of opportunity here. We're at a pinnacle time in our country's history where we actually can transform the way that we build, operate, and maintain transit into the future. So comparing other jurisdictions around the world, Europe is a prime example, Asia as well. You can see how much infrastructure and how much transit is being built and operated and also upgraded around the world. North America is still fixated on the car

so we still have a little bit of learning to do but we still have we have great opportunity to actually improve the way that we build, operate and deliver these projects by actually four simple steps and it does require, I hate to say, the government to actually act. It comes from the federal government

to actually implement a framework for passenger rail. So what do you mean by? that. In general. What do you mean by that? What role does the federal government have? We'll use Toronto as an example. What role does the federal government have in helping get us from where we have been with these ridiculous

costs to a place where we can build more affordably? Well, we're one of the few G20, we're one of the only G20 country that doesn't have a passenger rail or a transit framework within our country.

Okay. So the fact that every other country around the world has a mandate to actually help deliver, operate and maintain rail or transit in their country is certainly a first step. So what I'm proposing and what we've been proposing as tracks for the last eight years is to create a standard framework that like a playbook that helps us build and operate and maintain these projects similar to what they do in Europe or in Asia. So we don't have to reinvent the wheel. We don't have to create something from scratch.

We can leverage all these best practices from around the world, bring them over to our country, and actually use those as tools in order to build properly and effectively. So before you go on to the next step, give me a real world example of what you're talking about, A real world best practice, the streamlining of the system. Because, you know, in my mind, I keep going back to this oddity of Toronto, the Toronto gauge, right? The distance between the rails in Toronto. It's different than anywhere else in the world, which makes it very hard for us to, I don't know, if New York want to buy subway cars, we couldn't jump on board with New York and say, okay, they want 250 and we need 30.

Let's just get on the same contract with them and have everybody's cost reduce. do this. We can't do that because of the particular distance between our rails. So is that something you're talking about here? That is a perfect example of what we should be moving towards. So international best practices is standardizing everything, making it easy for our suppliers and our supply chain to actually build and deliver these products and services to the transit. I see. So you're saying, you're saying we should try to standardize and harmonize these things as best as possible so that when the Montreal Metro and the Toronto subway need to buy new cars,

they could get together and lower the cost for both cities. Absolutely. So we have these individual siloed transit agencies and no fault to themselves. They were just given the mandate to build something. And it wasn't, they didn't get a playbook. They didn't get a manual to follow, they were just told to build it and build it based on what you know. And unfortunately, within North America, we're living in a little bit of a bubble where we don't really expand ourselves into international markets. So we don't see the opportunities and the efficiencies that we can bring over from Europe to North America.

One of the biggest constraints is the fact that we're neighbors to the south, to the U.S. Yeah, yeah. And what we do is typically follow what the U.S. is doing. Mark, I've just realized I'm looking at the clock and I realize that we've eaten up so much of our time. I know we've got three more points to get to, so let's get to them. Sure, no problem. So the next one is training centers. What do you mean by training centers?

So we don't have any skill in trades or any engineering certifications that focus on rail. So let's train our graduates. Let's train people for new jobs to get careers into passenger rail. There's tons of opportunities, so many jobs available, and we need to attract those people to come into our industry. And by building these training facilities, building curriculum in order to make people more aware, make them safer when they actually are in the field, is really key to our success.

So they, and I've noticed in our notes here that says one of the, one of the knock on positive effects of this is people don't have to learn on the job. They can come in fully baked. Exactly. And so we're seeing some initiatives from universities for engineering courses, but we don't have any skill of trade development for passenger rail. And this is a core element for us to actually be able to compete and be competent in the field to build these things.

And we're really encouraging that. And so I believe we've got two more points. Can you get to them quickly for me? Yeah, absolutely. So the supply chain, as I alluded to, having consistency in terms of standards so that we can build our supply chain within Canada and leverage from the international markets. And finally, just procurement policies. We have a vast array of procurement policies from different agencies that are very difficult

and convoluted and confusing. Let's make it easy. Let's make it easy so that competition can compete and actually provide a better solution for a lot less and a lot quicker in terms of delivery. Mark Salzberg, now all we need is for the politicians and the powers that be and the gatekeepers to understand that what you're saying makes sense and it can save us money in the long term. So here's hope and they're listening. Mark Salzberg, thank you so much for joining and my best to your family. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I really look forward to moving this forward.

Thank you. The holiday season is full of choices. Cranberry sauce or gravy, skip rent or skip Christmas. I'm Lieutenant Colonel John Murray of the Salvation Army. When poverty gives someone an impossible choice, your donation is their answer. Donate now at Salvationarmy.com. At Edmonton Cabota, they power Alberta's hardest workers from the farmers who feed the people to the crew.

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Because at Edmonton, Cabota, they don't just sell machines. They stand behind the people who run them. We are Cabota. You are our family. This is the Ben Mulroney show, but because it is Wednesday, time for this week in politics, our Wednesday edition. Very happy to have, as always, Andy Gibbons, principal at Walgate Advisory, former VP at WestJet, and Regan Wants, the founder of Fratton Park

and former senior aide to Jim Flaherty. And gentlemen, I clearly missed the quarter zip memo today. I feel left out, and especially you, Regan, you're looking decidedly upscale today, not what I'm used to seeing. You kind of look a little, you know, rough around the edges most days. well ben i had some friends uh take some pity on me uh zio and zia vito and nancy uh the clomones they watch the show they're avid listeners and they tune in on youtube and fancy nancy took it upon herself uh while she was out shopping with don vito to buy me some new sweaters so shout out to nancy and her great taste and of the clomones for being such big fans of the ben morrini show god i wish i had people who watched the show and just sent me clothes but i guess you got to

you got to know somewhere by the way i think the last time we chat you were name-checked in that FIFA thing and Regan and then and then this week I'm coming at you with another name-check because you were named-checked by Pierre Poliev during his speech at the at the press gallery dinner. Are you going to play the clip or do you want me to do it?

No, no, just go right. Yeah, he was going through his, he was going, I just remembered that so we don't have the clip but essentially gets up there and he's going through his list of slogans that don't work in that room and one of them was get rid of the expensive consultants. He goes, that's not going to work. Regan Watts is here. But you're making the rounds, man.

It was, look, being name-checked by Jesse Marsh and Mr. Polly-Ev in the same sort of 10-day span is an accomplishment, I suppose. You know, Mr. Polly-Ev obviously is also an avid listener and viewer of the Ben Mulrini show. So, you know, we know Ben, he pays attention to the show. What I would say is on the show, Andy and I come on as pundits and analysts, and your listeners and viewers don't come, you know, pay attention because they want to hear us party talking points, they want to hear analysis. And, you know, when the party makes wise decisions, we'll give them flowers, and that includes Mr. Polyev. And when the party behaves

like a bunch of telotubbies, tinky winky or others, we'll call that out. And it's important that they make good choices and wise decisions. So we don't have to think of them as telotubbies or making childish decisions. And we want them to do well. And so that is the context that I'll put it, but I'm a big boy and I can take a punch. And it was all in good fun. and he had some good jabs at the CBC and at me. And we'll talk about it a bit later in the show. I'm sure. Absolutely.

Hey, let's move on to Elizabeth May. You know, in another capacity, I host Global News's Westblock. And I would chat it a few weeks ago with Elizabeth May on the eve of her decision as to whether or not she was going to support the budget. And what she told me during that conversation was she needed to hear some very specific things from Mark Carney. And then a couple of days later, she said she was going to vote for the budget because she heard. from him personally that she was going to get the environmental commitments

that she needed to hear in order to give her support to the budget. Now she's turning around and saying she regrets that she feels that Mark Carney and the liberal government pulled a bait and switch.

Andy, did Elizabeth May get played? I think she played herself. I mean, if Ben, if she thinks a liberal prime minister committing to meeting climate goals is enough, is

is an unbelievable thing for me. I mean, we had Cretchen Martin, we had Justin Trudeau, every single liberal prime minister. And I'm not even criticizing them. It's just what they say. They always say they're going to meet the climate accord targets. And we never have, except by the way with Stephen Harper was prime minister. It's another side note.

But to say I was given enough confidence by the prime minister because the prime minister said we're going to meet a hypothetical thing. So she gave him his vote over a hypothetical. thing versus a tangible real thing that she could have reasonably extracted had she been a political operator. And she is not a political operator. I wouldn't say she got played. I think Mark Carney probably reasonably intends to meet the targets. But that should not be enough for her vote. So I think she feels like a bit of a dumb dumb today. But I wouldn't say she was played or there was anything malicious. She's just not savvy. That's the very late.

Yeah. Regan, I see you nodding in agreement. I do agree with that, but your viewers and listeners, Ben, will note that yours truly said several weeks ago, well before the budget was tabled, that I expected Elizabeth May to vote with the government. That was less on my assumption that she would get something from the prime minister and more on the political reality. And that the Green Party is in no position to go to a campaign. You know, the Green Party, along with the NDP, has degenerated. into an extreme cesspool of left-wing activism, pink and purple-haired activists who care more about Hamas and the state of Palestine

than they do about working Canadians. And that reflects in their bank balance and the party coffers. And it also reflects in their performance in the most recent election. They have no political organization. And just ask any of the co-leaders that she co-led the party with

going into the last two elections, how it worked out for them. So for me, it was less about what she'd get from the prime minister and more about real politic and her party's inability to, make any kind of breakthrough with Canadians. Okay, well, let's stick with a little bit of this tangentially and open up the door

to what I believe, Andy, is probably going to be the most significant test of Mark Carney's leadership that he's going to encounter in a long time. And it's going to be trying to square the circle and trying to get everybody on the same page as it relates to the building of this pipeline, as well as recognition of Aboriginal rights as it relates to the access of this pipeline to the B.C. coast. It really feels to me like he's got, it's going to be like trying to herd kittens. So let's start the conversation now. If we have to go to break, we will absolutely continue it after the break.

But yeah, to me, this is, it feels like this is going to require every ounce of Mark Carney's leadership to move this ball down the field. How do you see it, Andy? It will, it will for sure. And one of the issues around Elizabeth May Ben, just for a moment, is the sense of betrayal among climate activists and, you know, the environmentalist community in Canada, they're using words like betrayal, other pundits are talking about this. So I think it is maybe for Elizabeth May less about what she was promised or not, but just the fact that for that community, Mark Carney wasn't a proponent. He was like their global savior and an evangelist for all of these policies. so i think they're in a bit of shock and how that plays out is going to be really interesting to see you're right about mark carney and i think this week you know there's going to be second

guessing about whether he should have been engaging the first nations prior to whether eb should have had more of a role um but he if he wants to be a nation building prime minister he has to go to british columbia and make the case and he has to say the national railway didn't stop at rogers pass yeah right um national projects require national consensus and i'm committed to that but i think he has to go to british columbia and make the speech that his predecessor didn't give certainly would never have given and that even stephen harper didn't give which is really communicate and speak in bc to british columbians about why the national interest must come first yeah and and i hope i really hope that he does do that but it's it's going to be tricky

And the other trend this week, Ben, is liberal MPs from British Columbia are out there recording videos saying, you know, this MOU is kind of nothing and really it's about more methane regs and really it's about a higher industrial carbon tax. So they have contradictory messages within their own team, never mind managing public opinion in British Columbia and the Premier of British Columbia. So I don't think it's a mess today. I think if they play the nation building card and continue to communicate about process and respect, I think they'll do okay. But Regan and I'm going to pass a mic to you in a sec.

I'm going to pass a mic to you in a sec, but I might have to cut you off to go to break. But look, this is really tricky. If the prime minister goes to British Columbia and he is received by First Nations there, as well as environmental is there, the way he was received at the Assembly of First Nations meeting, this will be a huge hill for him to climb.

What do you think? Well, look, Ben, I think your father said it best, which is political capital is accumulated to be spent on great causes. And the prime minister clearly believes that getting oil and gas to new markets and diversifying our trade in the resource sector is a national priority. And he makes a number of good points. And I agree with all of them. I do think the prime minister has it within him to go to,

B.C. and to engage with First Nations, it's not going to be easy. But if there's one thing that he has tried to do in his nascent political career, and let's not forget, this guy's only been a politician for 10 months or 11 months, it's that he's taken an approach to build bridges. And so if we have anybody on the federal scene who is capable of building those bridges in the near term with the tools he has, it's the prime minister. Okay, so hold on to it right there. We're going to continue with this, as well as asking ourselves, is Mark Miller the guy to negotiate with First Nation? So that's coming up as as well as the political play of the week.

Don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulroney show marches on. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to this week in politics with our all stars on this week in politics. We got to Andy and Regan, guys. Thanks for sticking around. And let's, before we get back into our topics, let's go to what we love doing each and every week during our second segment.

political play of the week. Regan, you're up first. So, Ben, my political play of the week is a staff person, actually, and her name is Katie Merrifield. And most of your viewers and listeners will have not heard of Katie. She has the job known as Director of Communications for the Leader of the Opposition. We talked about Mr. Pollyev's appearance of the Parliamentary Press Gallery dinner at the top of the show. My understanding with those around Mr. Pollyuev is that Katie was the driving force behind getting Mr. Palliev to show up to that dinner. You know, Mr. Pollyev's not had a great couple a month. The hardest job in Canadian politics is working for a minister or a politician who is under

fire. Oftentimes as a director of communications, you are the punching bag for that person. But to Katie's enormous credit, as I understand it, she is the big push and reason why Mr. Polyev showed up to the gallery dinner. And as I said, it was fun and he had some fun. And it was a side of him that some of us have seen in private many times over the years. But Katie managed to convince him of the wisdom of showing up. And Katie deserves enormous credit for doing what many thought was impossible, and that is getting Mr. Polyeb to show willingly up to a room full of media from the Parliamentary Press Gallery. Yeah, listen, the line that he had about, you know, he had a pollster tell him, like, if you want to connect with people, you got to, you either have to get a dog

or you've got to go out there and have meaningful conversations with Canadians over the course of weeks and months and years. And he called the pollster back and asked what kind of dog. So, that was a phenomenal, phenomenal line. All right, Andy, you're up next. What's your play of the week? Yeah. Well, my honorable mention is Pierre as well for having fun. And actually my feeling watching him on the weekend was, don't write this guy off. I thought he performed very well. Mine is a misplay. Mine is a misplay. And I wouldn't, Ben, I wouldn't say that, you know, he qualifies for the Simone Biles, Nadia Komenich Award quite yet. And that's BC Premier David eb yeah so it reminded me of when my son reaches for a rice crispy square in the pantry and there's a

difference between you know nicholas um over my dead body and nicholas you know you really shouldn't do that and if you track what david eb said all week and i went through it this morning every day it's softened a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more to the the extent to which yesterday it was basically you know if this happens it won't be great for this and that really reason, whereas five days ago was a hard over my dead body, litigation, you know, the whole works. Yeah. So, I mean, this is, this is game day.

This is the Super Bowl of politics and the economy. And to be a little inconsistent in a week like this, I think, is a political misplay for him. Yeah. And I thank you for allowing me to segue back into the conversation about these negotiations that Mark Carney. And by the way, like I've said before, if he succeeds, we all succeed. And I want him to succeed on this file.

But here's why I think it's going to be even harder for him than other prime ministers have had when they have, when they talk about these nation building issues and projects. And it has to do with the BC Supreme Court's ruling on the Cowichin Tribe and the land claims. Because what we've seen with that is it's supercharged this emboldened attitude. We saw it yesterday at the AFN where this Ottawa area tribe leader said they are, they are issuing their own land claim against pretty. much most of Ottawa and parts of Quebec. And they're doing that so that they can get either more respect or more money out of Ottawa. It feels like they have the wind in their sales. And this Supreme Court ruling in British Columbia has supercharged that feeling of opposition that they have to this sort of thing. And Regan, like, am I making too much out of it? Or is this, are we in a

stage of sort of confrontation with First Nations as it relates to these big projects? Well, I think we're in a period of change with respect to First Nations and their relationship and the attention they receive from the federal government and in Ottawa. You know, Prime Minister Trudeau, the long national nightmare, never found a way to say no to anything that First Nations had asked for while he was Prime Minister. And to his credit, he actually did a few good things, which was to go aggressively and work hard at eliminating boil water advisories on First Nations reserves. And actually, Minister Fulpot, Jane Philpott and her team deserve enormous credit

for actually getting a lot of that work done. I think what you're seeing, though, is stakeholders who are finding a new government with a new posture and a new tone in the Prime Minister Carney and his administration. I think they're used to getting their way in Ottawa, like many stakeholders are, organized labor being another. And there's a new sheriff in town. And I just think this is part and parcel of the back and forth that happens between First Nations and the federal government.

I will say, I don't think the lower court ruling in BC, we've heard the last of it yet, or the reverberations. I would point out that it was actually a Stephen Harper appointment, that judge who issued that ruling, which I found strange, or at least interesting. And so we'll see how this all shakes out, but I think what you're seeing with the First Nations in Ottawa, particularly the special interest groups and organizations like AFN,

they are finding that it's a different way of doing business, and they are obviously changing. is bringing some discomfort. All right, well, let's move on to a new member of the Mark Carney inner circle, but not new to government and certainly not new to cabinet. Mark Miller is back and sort of flies against what I've seen as a trend, which was our new prime minister in an effort to sort of create a new identity for his government, for his caucus, was slowly but surely,

weeding out so those names and faces that were so identifiable under Justin Trudeau with an eye to replace them with new blood and people that he had handpicked, I suppose. And so to bring Mark Miller back

and to me flies in the face of that and then for him to double down and essentially stick his nose where it doesn't belong. It is not his role to talk about indigenous and reconciliation. And yet there he was on day one talking about, yeah, my government needs to start engaging,

should have engaged yesterday on this sort of thing. I'm like, oh, my God, this, he wasn't gone long enough, Andy, and yet here he is again. Well, I mean, for, you know, it's clear that the liberal team in Ottawa have a lot of affection for him and respect for him. I think it probably ends at those doors, to be honest. And, and, you know, what a missed opportunity again, Ben. You know, look at the, look at the team that Mark Carney has elected in Quebec. He has tons of talent there.

There's new Carney MPs. There's liberal MPs that never served under Justin Trudeau. And you could have had a fresh 48 hours of new Quebec blood and an injection of new energy and new leadership. And instead, you reached for the blue box in Langevin and found Mark Miller's CV. And what happened the first 48 hours? Here's what Mark Miller said on immigration. Here's where he messed up here. Him sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.

And it just reminds everyone that there is still a Trudeau. I won't say the word I was going to say. There's still a Trudeau presence. And if you read, David Coletto, Ben, David Colletto said it best. He said he advises all of his clients. One thing. The prime minister to be successful should simply do the opposite of Justin Trudeau at every single juncture. Regan, the last word is to you.

What do you make of this elevation of Mark Miller? Well, I think Andy's point about the Prime Minister going to the recycling bin just reinforces that he does believe in recycling in the green economy and the circular economy. Come on, Regan. Come on. I think it's a rare mistake from the Prime Minister or an unforced error. Mark Miller was part of the toxicity under the long national nightmare. He has no record to speak of that is worthy of applause. He was one of the Trudeau government's worst ministers. I can't figure out why the prime minister put him in cabinet.

My only hope, if I'm a liberal and wanting to change the channel, as Andy just articulated, that pollsters are suggesting, is that Mr. Miller is only in cabinet for a brief period of time and that there's a larger shuffle coming because it's, you know, the last two days have not been days filled with good headlines. And, you know, him commenting on another department's portfolio, indigenous reconciliation and indigenous affairs, there's nothing that drives another minister nuts in Ottawa more than when another minister's commenting on their profile or their portfolio. So, you know, a rare mistake from Mr. Carney or at least a recent mistake from Mr. Carney and one that he will have to address because I think there's going to be more problems the longer Mr. Miller stays in Cabinet. I think you might be right.

I mean, the fact that he – I think he's just very comfortable in this role and he's very comfortable in the halls of power that he thinks he can just come out and pontificate on issues that have nothing to do with – I mean, look, they tell me all the time. to my lane. And I would say the same thing to Mark Miller. Stick to your lane, buddy. Hey, guys, thank you. As always, thank you so much next week. I'll see if I can get myself a quarter zip and we can maybe start a barbershop trio together. All the best to you. Have a great week. Merci, Montcham, migwitch. I want to stamp myself one of the best players to ever play this game. Wednesdays on Global.

That's how you're doing. This is their moment. The lying. The backstabbing. I'm excited to do it. Canada's number one reality show. This is a highly venomous snake. I'm worried about his life at this point.

We both aren't afraid to be killers. I'm the puppet master. She was Karen. This is Survivor. We're going to go to War Survivor. All new Wednesdays on Global. Stream on Stack TV.