The Ben Mulroney Show - AI Minister Evan Solomon - Will AI Kill Us?

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

On this episode of 'The Ben Mulroney Show,' Ben welcomes back Evan Solomon, Minister of Artificial Intelligence and Digital Innovation. They discuss the dire warnings of AI leaders, the investment summit and more. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠   Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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it's like having your own coach. Whatever your favorite game, we have your playbook. OZoon. Well played. Discover free sports tips, casino games and poker guides at OZoon.net. Welcome back to the Ben Mulruni show. There's an old saying that when somebody tells you who they are, believe them. And it seems that with an accelerated pace, people in the know, people in the AI industry are telling us what AI, well, if it's not AI today, it's what they think AI will be in the future. And if I'm being honest, what they're saying, it's kind of scary. You know, we had that former executive from Anthropic who just quit. There was some pushback that he was a, he was a, it was doomsday porn.

But that's not the only story. We've got a lot more to talk about. So to perhaps allay some of our fears or talk about how this may be a reality, but we can do something about it. We're joined by the federal minister of AI, Evan Solomon. Evan, welcome. Ben, good to be here. So this is your job. You know, as we've talked about your ministry before,

you're sort of building the train as you're riding the train. And I'm sure you're learning something new every day. When you see these stories, when you see this anthropic exec who says he's leaving because he was helping to build something that could take down humanity, what's your first instinct? Is it to get in front of a microphone and calm people down? Well, let me just say that we, I share the concerns about AI. We've had these concerns.

By the way, and these concerns are not new. They've come to a head right now. But these are concerns that anybody in AI who's worked in AI for a long time has always been concerned about the potential risks of AI. And it's accelerating as AI learns, you know, teaches itself, right? Right. It's called, the fancy term is recursive self-improvement. It just keeps, you know, the AI is improving itself. Yeah.

And so we've known about this. I'm not trying to minimize the risk, but this is a risk that has been one of the key concerns. So number one, I share the concern. Two, my number one priority has been, is, and will be safety of AI. We need to keep Canadian safe. And I just, if you give me 10 seconds here, just to tell you. outline because people say, okay, great, what are you doing about it? Yeah.

Well, number one, when we launched our AI strategy, it's built on three pillars, trust, opportunity, sovereign control. The first pillar is trust. You can't have trust without safety. We have launched legislation, as you know, to protect our privacy and data. So, Canadians will know their children are safe, their private information is safe, and their personal data is safe. And that means, for example, if AI is used to make a deep fake, you can demand it's taken

down. if they're using it for surveillance pricing, you can get rid of that. And to keep people say, well, how we are setting up for the first time, and everyone has asked for this, Ben, a regulator like a police force, that for the first time can hold these big companies to account with fines in the billions of dollars.

Let me jump in. Let me jump in on that point, because I need to understand how that fits into the AI evolutionary workflow. Meaning, when the CEO of Anthropic publishes an article admitting AI is already building itself and the next generation of AI is going to be

as you just said self-recursive gobbledygook but but he says within six to 12 months a rogue swarm could take over the entire internet and cause and so I ask in good faith how does a regulator stop that okay first of all

I just want to be clear because there's a lot But he didn't say a rogue swarm in a couple months will take over the internet. So I just like, we should be really careful here. They said that, you know, they are concerned about what's called a breakout. So these are like AIs that are being tested. And then they're testing on what's called like, it's like a protected environment. I call it a sandbox. And this particular incident, it broke out.

And they're like, holy machina. This thing figured out a way to break out of its barriers. What does that mean in the future? Can we build fences that are protecting us from this kind of its own ability to break out? And so how are we doing that? Well, the first thing is you've got to make sure that the company's building these are accountable. We didn't even have a good way to hold them accountable for any harm. So the first thing is we've got to build the force that's accountable. That's why I mentioned the regulator. That's really important. Secondly, you've got to invest in solutions. And, you know, when I said, Ben, that we aren't, this isn't, it's not like we figured this out when we saw that report. One of the things that you saw us do almost three or four months ago is we invested in that the most cited AI scientists in the world is a guy named Joshua Benjillo.

Number one, most cited scientists in the history. Yeah. He's in Montreal. He pioneered AI. And we've invested a huge amount of money in his, an AI that polices AI. It's an AI that polices AI. That's right. Okay. Make sure that they don't break out. Now, this is, he works at our national AI center, Mila, where we have the best AI scientists in the world.

But I will tell you, Ben, and I will actually, you are the first I will tell. We will have a major announcement on Wednesday at our big national AI conference in Montreal on Wednesday. And we will make a major safety announcement that we've been working on for a long time with Germany. A major, so that's one aspect. So we will have a major announcement on the technical side. And then, and I will just tell you, Ben, on Sunday I spoke with Sam Altman of Open AI for a long time about just to make sure, and I speak to these folks all the time. I spoke to my counterpart in the UK. Wait, talk to you about the Sam Altman conversation.

Well, Sam Altman, so just so folks know, he's the CEO and founder of Open AI, I talk to these folks to make sure frequently. So we know what's on the frontier. I just want Canadians to know. We are not reading the headlines and finding out about this stuff. The Canadian AI, we have the Canadian AI Safety Institute, which, by the way, you saw back in June, I put another $50 million in because safety's our number one concern. Our Canadian Cyber Security Center, and me personally, we are in touch with these folks all the time to make sure, A, we understand the threat environment, two, we let them know.

we are going to regulate and make sure that this stuff is safe. And three, we are working with our international counterparts. I spoke to my counterpart in the UK, Germany, Spain. Later today, I'm going to speak with France. And just to make sure that our critical infrastructure and our banks, and most importantly, you and I, our kids are safe. And we will make sure that as this AI is growing and it's developing, There's big benefits in health care, but we want to make sure first and foremost people are safe.

Yeah. And we are doing just that. Okay. So I'm glad you mentioned speaking with your international peers. And I don't know whether I'm emboldened by the fact that human beings are paying attention to this aspect of the consequences of AI or whether I'm just scared that it's yet another front in the battle to protect ourselves. But there's a cross-party group of MPs and peers in the UK that are arguing that human rights risks are posed by artificial intelligence. And they say that the existing laws are ill-equipped to address the technology's rapid growth. And it's called the Joint Committee on Human Rights in the UK.

I have to believe that are you aware of their concerns of AI as it applies to human rights? Well, there's a lot of concerns, by the way. There's jobs, privacy, security. look, there's lots of real concerns. And again, let me just reiterate. I share these concerns. This is not about, uh-oh, you know, we're saying there's only good stuff in healthcare, which there is, that there's lots of benefits of this stuff,

and we're avoiding or downplaying or in any way ignoring the safety. Absolutely not. But I will. By the way, in the UK has a very good safety, AI safety institute that's working very closely with ours, and we'll be, by the way, working more closely in the future on that. But look, all these risks and concerns, about AI are real, as are the opportunities. And that's where we've got to build it right. And you're right, we got to make sure our laws catch up. I will say we've got legislation on safe social media

that also includes AI chatbots. We've got the privacy legislation. So we want this pass quickly. And Ben, because you follow this closely, this summer, we ask the public, we are currently undergoing an AI transparency consultation nationally where we are getting feedback from the country on what kind of transparency they want around AI

transparency and how it's built. Why? So we make sure that we can regulate and keep it safe, which we will do. Well, Evan, I've got to say with each passing conversation, it to me feels like you are increasingly comfortable in this very important role.

And if anyone is concerned as I was before this conversation and will continue to be so afterwards. I have to, I'm being completely honest and transparent, this is not partisan or political. I'm increasingly happy that this is a role that you have. I think you're the right guy to have his hand on the switch, so I appreciate that. Ben, fantastic. Any time call. Oh, wait, wait.

That was a nice way to butter you up for two last questions. Two last questions. And the first is on this highly anticipated investment summit that the, this, this is the brainchild of Mark Carney. And I think every single one of us wants him to walk away with a trillion dollars investment unlocked. And I'm sure some really good stuff is going to come out of it. But my question is, the investment environment a few years ago was such that people, that in foreign direct investment was staying home. What has changed in that environment besides Mark Carney being the prime minister that would unlock billions upon billions of dollars of investment in this country?

Well, first of all, it's great to see that Canada has what the world wants. And look, we all are aware of the trade, you know, conflict that we're in with the U.S. But we're not standing still. Plan A is to build. And plan is to make sure that people see what we've got. We've got the most educated workforce. We've got the highly, we've got the best universities. We've got natural resources.

And we have taxes and we have regulation and none of that stuff has changed. Well, hold on. Lots of change. Well, hang in there. So we got the resources. Ben, you and I both know, let's just talk facts. The marginal effective tax rate in Canada right now after our budget is 13%. What is it in the United States?

16% after one big, beautiful bill. That has the most important investment signal. There will be more to come. Two, we've got a major projects office with 27 major projects going through it right now. And that's why at this investment summit, There's over 160 different shovel-ready investment products that are ready. That means the major – and people say, what's the major projects office? It's a way to facilitate through all the provincial regulations and to expedite this faster

without compromising our values on environment, indigenous consultation. But we've got to move quicker. And that has been what it's doing. And that's why – I will tell you, that's why the world has come here. And people should be proud that the entire world is saying, hey, I'm coming. come in here to invest in Canada. And remember, folks, this isn't, this is because they want to create the jobs here in Canada, the benefits in Canada, and when the world wants to invest in Canada, it means better jobs,

better economy, that's what we're driving here. My last question for you is, I want you to take off your AI hat, I want you to put on your former broadcaster, your former journalist, your former communicator hat. As somebody who sits in a very similar chair that you did, conveying the news of the day, I need you to make something make sense for me. There's a lot of news that our prime minister makes and a lot that makes Canadians very happy. But a lot of it, I'm learning it from either,

I'm learning from foreign journalists. And I'm not hearing it either in the Canadian press, and I'm not hearing about it in the House of Commons. As a guy who used to sit where I sit, make that make sense. Well, I don't know if I agree with the prime minister. of the question. So let me just say this, Ben. You know, the prime minister is

talks almost every day to the press. The House of Commons is sitting exactly according to the calendar not lesser than any other time. We literally follow up trade war. We were told this is a war. War requires, you know, you've got to mobilize things differently. You've got

to change the schedule. Well, look, Parliament's back next week, as you know. So we're going to be sitting. I just want to assure Canadians, like let's be clear. Parliament, we haven't changed one minute of the parliamentary schedule. It's the same that was sitting there with, you know, you might know him, Prime Minister Mulroney or Prime Minister Creche or Prime Minister Harper or Prime Minister Carney. The parliamentary schedule, we are following that. We have never curtailed that and we never will. But I will say this, look, this is why we're doing interviews like this. We want to be transparent and open, but then, I tell you, the plan is to build. We believe in the country. And you and I know, it's a mission moment here for Canadians who are like, you know what?

People want to take away what we've got, not just our sovereignty. And I'm not talking about the name of Lake Ontario, which will always be Lake Ontario, but jobs. Yeah. And we are going to fight to make sure that the world is here to invest and build here. And that's what we're doing. Well, let me tell you this week is a really big one for your prime minister, for your government, but also for the stakes for the economy.

So I think everybody's behind sort of the plan. I really do hope that what comes out of it is a lot of investment in an economy that really needs it. So Evan, I'll let you get back to it. Really appreciate your time on this, my friend. We'll talk to you soon. Yeah, Ben, anytime, man.

Thanks so much.