The Ben Mulroney Show - Alex Pierson in for Ben, who is in Israel. Has our Ben started a diplomatic crisis yet?

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

GUEST: Ben Mulroney GUEST:  BROOKE GOLDSTEIN / Canadian-American civil rights attorney who founded the Lawfare Project and the End Jew Hatred Movement GUEST:  Sylvain charlebois  /  The Food Professor If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. You are listening to the Ben Mulroney show. I don't sound like him because I am not him. Alex Pearson in from Mr. Ben Mulroney. Ben Mulroney is traveling. Traveling to a fascinating place where he's going to learn a thing or two. And again, when you talk about the issues that we talk about of the day, you want to know what you're talking about. And it's a great opportunity. And that is why he's checking in with us. And so we can kind of track this journey. So we head over to Israel, where we find our own Ben Malruni. I think you are in Yad Vashem, right? But you've kind of been all over.

but where I was just yeah go ahead we just finished our tour of Yadvashem and now we are at the gates of the old city and so I'm staring at probably the oldest thing that my eyes have ever seen before and I'm just we are right outside the walls and we're going to be taking a tour in a few inch and I am just gobsmacked at what I'm seeing I'm staring up at the walls right now I'm sorry I should be more on point with you but I'm trying to take this in at the same time I I totally get it because we hear about Israel. We talk about Israel and a lot of places, but certainly when you go to these historic areas,

that's when most people say, I had no idea. What's your experience been? Is it one of those take your breath away moments? Or what are you learning that you didn't think you knew? Well, I mean, look, the day I could divide the day into three parts. And we started the day with sort of the politics of the day, going to the ministry of foreign affairs,

followed by Knesset. and then we went to Yad Vashem and now we're here at the old city and so you've got the modern you got modern Israel you've got the life and suffering of the Jews prior to that in Europe is with Yad Vashem's

which for those people who don't know means the equivalent of the Holocaust Museum and now we're going back in time to essentially the living proof of the indigenity of the Jewish people of the in this region as if you needed proof beyond what we've already seen

and I'm literally looking at it and so you put those three things together the politicians of the day that are that are that are you know defending this country and its people from enemies

the proof of the need for a place like Israel and then justification for the Jewish people to have have their own state. That's what I've seen today. Yeah. And you go at a time when, you know, we do have a ceasefire in place, you know, there are still, there are still bombings going on, and there are still military activity.

There was a taking out of a Lebanese leader, yesterday, a terrorist yesterday. But what's the, and again, Israel over the last couple of years, certainly has gone through just an enormous amount of emotional, you know, the, not a lot of ups, right? since October 7th, but what is it like there now? What is the mood in that city? Well, I haven't had time to sort of pull the people, which I've ever intention of doing, but I'm watching people living their own lives,

going about their lives. And I'll tell you, we spoke with a woman who's a member of the Knesset, and she's a deputy foreign minister. And when she sat down, she was a young woman who had life or had family in Canada, and then moved to Israel. And her, what she said really floored me. She said, listen, Israel is going to be just fine.

We are going to be just fine. We know how to defend ourselves. We know what our culture is. You know who we are. We will defend our culture, our history, our faith, our families. My fear is for you, for the West. Because you do not honor your faith. You don't honor your culture.

You don't honor your history. You don't honor your flag. here. And people are coming for it. And they are coming for it. And you don't know how to defend it. I watch students of your own country attacking and saying Canada is worthless. But we don't do that here. We defend our countries. And hearing that from a woman who's, you know, just weeks past a gruesome war was quite, I mean, it hit me in the face pretty significant. Well, because the war doesn't end there, right? They can never actually just relax and chill out about stuff because there will always be an enemy, albeit there are less today, but there will always be an enemy

to kill Jews. But they're right. I mean, we have seen things in this country that, you know, you didn't even need to scratch the surface to see like the ugly and the monsters come out, right? So how do we undo this? How do we get back to preserving values, you know, fighting against the evil that really you can't see but it's here and it just, it wants to take our Western values and frankly it's doing a pretty good job. I agree. I absolutely agree

and to hear that it's the same battle. From their perspective, it's all the same battle as she pointed out we may be the first, we may be the first that this enemy is coming from, but make no mistake, we won't be the last and we'll take care of ourselves

but once they, once we realize we can't they can't take it from us, they're going to come for you. And she's, and I don't think she's wrong. Oh, and I'd be curious, because I know you talk about this, certainly. I mean, I would be curious, they must be just floored by our stance in this country, the reversal of 75, 80 years of policy. Like, it's just, I can't die. We were absolutely warned that there are a lot of angry politicians at Canada.

And we've heard, we learned today that since his election, our prime minister has not had one phone call who has been to Netanyahu. Can you believe that? Not one. Not one phone phone call. In advance of the recognition of the state of Palestine, apparently Anita Anand contacted her analog in Israel once, the day before, the day

before. Yeah. Yeah, well, they've done nothing to protect Canadians and stand up for values here, but they've certainly, you know, what the relationship looks like moving forward is anyone's guess, but I'm not surprised that you're hearing not necessarily. I don't know if it's anger or disappointment, but I have to think it's pretty high.

Yeah, I think there's a combination of both of those things and confusion. What are you doing? You're thrown away over 70 years of a relationship where surely disagreed on issues, but we've never fundamentally broken from each other. Right, right. And so, look, I know food is also a big thing for you, and apparently the food is fantastic there. So I do know that is part of the journey for you

because they're known for food. So I don't know. And so far, listen, I wouldn't say that everything we've eaten as far has been traditional Israeli or Mediterranean. But I've enjoyed everything I've eaten. Whatever they put in front of me, I've eaten. Does that mean you're hitting fast food restaurants or it's just... No, Bajo, no.

Wherever they tell us for having dinner or lunch, that's where we eat and it's been delicious. All right. Okay. And just before I let you go, what is it that you want to understand the most, I guess, when you're there? Well, I think I want to have a deeper understanding of what the people, my intrinsic instinct is to stand with the Jews. It's a tiny little piece of land that they call their own, surrounded by Muslim and Arab nations. I don't think it's too much to ask that they have their own little piece of land that they call their own. And so to better understand it and them, because there's a whole lot of arguments to why that shouldn't be the case.

Oh, we're against an ethno state, Jewish ethno state. Oh, there's apparently a genocide. Oh, it's apparently an apartheid state. And while I know those things to be false, I'd like to see them with my own eyes so I can come back and look people in the eye. and with more, with more than just an instinct to be able to look at those people and better defend that which shouldn't need defense, but which I am proud to defend. Yeah. And sadly, the propaganda war by Hamas has been incredibly successful, incredibly successful,

which means we have to work. Yeah. I do want to point out really through before I leave a few of the people that are on this trip with me. First of all, Kevin Vong is with us. I've got the former mayor of Ottawa, of Montreal, Ben-I-Codeh. We've got Mike Cole and James Pastornax and city council are here as well. So it's a motley crew.

Yeah, it is a motley crew. It is a motley crew, but it's a friends of Israel each and everyone. All right. Well, we will talk with you throughout the week, so I appreciate you joining us and stay safe and learn a lot. Thank you so much. There you go. Ben Mulroney, who is the host of this fine show,

and he will be back next week, so I will be here, but we will chat with him on an uncle. going basis. And again, it comes down to really wanting to understand what you are talking about. And I've been invited a couple of times. I have not been able to make this trip work. But I will. My husband loves it there. It goes quite often. So does his family. When we come back, we'll continue this conversation because again, we're going to be talking to a civil rights lawyer and the view of the anti-Semitism in Canada's positioning from her eyes and the dangers it spells moving forward for everyone next on the Benmore.

Show. It's the Ben Mulroney Show. It sure is an I am Alex Pearson. Of course, we were just chatting with Ben Malroney, who is in Israel. He's there for a week. They do these kinds of trips, and certainly, you know, you get a lot out of it. You learn a lot about the good, the bad, the ugly, but you'll learn. a lot of what you didn't know.

Here's, interestingly, over the last, and I don't understand in 2025, I thought this had already been done, but that just shows where I'm at. But President Trump's saying over the weekend that he intends to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terror organization and, like, long, long overdue, right? The Muslim Brotherhood and Care have long made their goal known that they will forcibly impose Sharia law and establish Islam's mastership of the world. and it sounds kind of like as if, right? As if. But it's a slow creep. You know, look at some of these prayers you're seeing across Canada. In Montreal, in Toronto, where people

are taking over intersections or in front of churches where they all of a sudden pray. I mean, that is done very specifically. It's a creep of Sharia. But Canada, you know, we have not established this group as a terror organization. And I don't get the sense that there will be any move to do so, when there should have been, for a long time, you know, this should have been taken more seriously because the Muslim Brotherhood long and reported, very well known that they have been pouring money into universities across North America and are huge, you know, creators of a lot of the propaganda and certainly the terror and hate against the West, and certainly the surge of anti-Semitism that has made Canada just a disgraceful leader.

in this particular area. So what are we waiting for? Who knows, but it can't come soon enough. Brooke Goldstein joining us now. She's a Canadian American Civil Rights Attorney who founded the Lawfare Project and the End Jew Hatred Movement. Thanks so much, Brooke, for joining us.

Thank you, Alex, for having me. I'm grateful. It's almost absurd that the Muslim Brotherhood still is not a terror organization. And frankly, I thought it had already happens. When I saw the headline, I thought, what? Really? 2025, and this is just happening now?

Yeah, you know, I actually just printed out, coincidentally, Governor Greg Abbott's of Texas proclamation, because it is so significant. And what I want to emphasize to your listeners is that this is not a Jewish problem. Okay, Jews and anti-Semitism is always, you know, a symptom of a much larger problem. You said it exactly perfectly. It is a creep of Islamism. We don't have a problem of rising anti-Semitism. We have a problem of creeping Islamism. And we have a problem of creeping Islamism into our society that is meant to destroy our Judeo-Christian values and the rise and targeting of Jews, whether it's outside of a synagogue, whether it's, excuse me, over 5,000 incidents against Jewish Canadians, whether it's the educational creep that we're seeing in K-12 on campuses throughout the country and now in our colleges, the infiltration of the media.

on social media or even Al Jazeera, which is run by Qatar, which is the largest sponsor of the Hamas terrorist group, we are seeing this everywhere. And there was a concerted effort. We should have woken up after 9-11, right? That was kind of like the American October the 7th. But what happened is we fell right back asleep again. Because everyone like me and you who were talking publicly about a real national security issue, okay? Not a political issue. A national security issue started being targeted with violence, slandered as Islamophobic, and of course targeted with these frivolous lawsuits, which is why I started the Lawfare Project.

So the most important thing is talk about it, continue to talk, to debate, to discuss what is going on because if we don't understand it, if we don't understand that Qatar is spending one billion dollars a year funding our educational system, we can't fight it. Right, but the challenge, as you well know, is they're seen as an ally. Right? Like we get Al Jazeera. They're seen as a lot of my colleagues as an ally. They're journalists. And it's not known that, well, they also cut our in those countries. They pour a ton of money in and they can be an ally and still be undermining us and we let them. And so again, you know, Hamas, you know, all these groups have been so, so successful with the propaganda. And I don't know how, I don't know how to put this toothpaste back in the tube. And to your point, it's not just about the Jews. So when people will email me, they stop being such a whiner, you know, you guys are being sucks.

No, it starts with Jews doesn't end there. You're already seeing it in Christianity. You're always seeing the tax. Like, it doesn't stop for anybody. Well, that's why their infiltration of the education system has been so important for this campaign. And we've turned a blind eye to it because if you don't have a populace, a citizenry who wants to stand up for and is proud of their own Canadian or American values, this civilization. will collapse. I'm not worried about Israel. Oh, I'm not worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about whether our Western civilization will

survive. And you have the Islamism full force with genocide in Nigeria, in Sudan, which for some reason the church is turning a blind eye to. Then you have the moderate Islamization, which is happening throughout Europe. You have entire towns in Belgium, in France. You cannot even go there, Sharia law is imposed. A white Christian cannot walk down the street in shorts and a t-shirt without fear of being, you know, mobbed, assaulted, you know, raped and murdered. And then you have what's happening in America and we need to wake up and we can look. And it is reversible. Because we have free, open democratic societies in the states, we have the Constitution and you have the charter. If you enforce the law, okay, that's what the citizenry has to do,

demand law enforcement and force the law. Why is it? You have mobbed. You have mobbed. Chanting genocide and threatening violence, marching in Jewish areas. And they're going to come to non-Jewish areas, too, believe me. And the law enforcement, it's not enforced. Why is it at the Canadian flag raising? They're not even required to have a permit, a permit to go and do their so-called protesting,

and you're shutting down America, sorry, a Canadian who's broadcasting the Canadian anthem, that's who you're going after? Well, you speak about values, but the values are not votes, and therefore lies the big problem is that we haven't seen a lot of political leadership which is willing to say

I mean, Pierre Pali of the Conservatives have been very unequivocal about their stance on this, but there have been far too many politicians who are too worried about losing particular votes because we will be honest, Muslim vote, much bigger than the Jewish vote, right? You have to be able to work values

to make sure you protect the national security and that's just not happening. Like the Hindus, the Chinese community, the Jewish community, the Pentecostal community, we have shared values. That is why we have a Judeo-Christian society where we have banded together and we have shared values of free speech,

freedom of assembly, freedom of religion. We cannot be siloed in these fights and be treating it as a problem of antisemitism. That is the greatest mistake that we can make. And also, we've got to enforce our civil rights. No one's going to do it for us. That is why, for example, we're launching, we're ramping up our litigation in Canada,

the Lawfare Project is coming into Canada and is going to replicate the success that we have in the United States, filing groundbreaking civil rights lawsuits to protect the freedoms and the rights, not just of the Jewish community, but all minority communities, all Canadian communities.

And that's how we fight in a liberal democracy, not but the sword, but with the law and with legislation. Yeah, an actual action and not talked. But, you know, I don't need to explain to you where Canada stands as far as anti-Semitism. it's shameful and our positioning on these issues is shameful. But I think most of us, if they can't get over the politics of it,

just look at what this country could look like in 20 to 30 years if we just do nothing. Five years, 30 years. Oh, yeah, I'm just, I won't be here 30 years, but like even five, six years down the, you know, it's. But it's leadership. Look, we talk about numbers. We talk about the demographics, okay? One of the big mistakes that we've made, especially as PACs and lobbying groups,

not just the Jewish community, but all communities. We got to go grassroots, okay? It's one thing to start electing members of parliament and the state and the Senate and so forth. I'm talking about labor unions, trade unions. We've got to be running for school boards. We cannot feed this space to the radicals. This is our country, and we have to protect it, and we need to serve. We haven't emphasized civil service enough, especially in our grade schools.

There should be classes in universities and colleges, Gratio, encouraging grassroots mobilization, right? Encouraging running for office. Yeah, no, you're 100% correct and that it's not happening and that we're seeing it in our voting and what's happening. It tells you everything. Wish I had more time, Brooke.

We will talk again. Glad you're doing this, and it's so, so important. So thank you for your time. Really a pleasure, Alex. Thank you for your moral clarity and spreading the truth. I appreciate it. Brooke Goldstein's her name, and of course, the cause and movement is, she's with the Lawfare

Project, it's the end Jew hatred movement. We'll keep talking about it. The holiday season is full of choices, cranberry sauce or gravy, skip rent, or skip Christmas. I'm Lieutenant Colonel John Murray of the Salvation Army. When poverty gives someone an impossible choice, your donation is their answer. Donate now at Salvationarmie.ca. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for global news. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer. And hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and act.

ad-free on Amazon music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. This is the Ben Mulrooney Show. It is indeed the Ben Mulroney Show, and I am Alex Pearson. I am here for the week. Let's talk a little bit about things going on with food that really are coming at us so quickly. I mean, the Carney government got so much blow back last couple of days for this news about cloned meat, you know, going into grocery stores with absolutely no transparency. And then when we started to learn about it,

it was like, wait a second, we're not going to be told if meat in the grocery section's not clone, like what gives, right? But now we're learning that while clone milk is not quite ready for market, what is ready is a fermented hormone-free, cruelty-free milk made in a lab. No cows. And it could be on the shelves sooner than you think. As for when cloned milk comes into this country, well, it's a work in progress, right?

But it is coming, meaning no cows, no goats, no nipples of any kind had anything to do with the production of the milk. And so, again, are we ready for it? Let's bring in someone who keeps putting up the news flashes on this stuff to warn us. That is, Sylvan Charlebois. And you know him as the food professor. He joins us. Hi there. Good morning.

Gosh, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on. with food, certainly, you know, the bottom line is the transparency with the meat did not go over well. People want to know what's in their food and what they're buying. But I do think it's fascinating, just kind of as we hear about the cloned meat issue, then we start to hear about cloned milk, which may not bother people as much. But where is it as far as being available in this country? Well, I mean, it's fermented, it's sufficient fermentation. It's not necessarily clone milk.

You basically recreate proteins through fermentation, essentially, it's getting more popular. So Re-Milk is a company that has come to Canada and offered this process and got it evaluated by, guess who, Health Canada. And it was approved actually back in January of 2024. So it's been a while. Now, nobody really knows exactly where these ingredients are, because I think the intent, remilts intent, and by the way, the press and the CEO actually has been on my podcast. He was on my podcast last year explaining, and he explained that really his intent was not to sell remil products for retail, so you and I can actually buy remil products, but it's actually

inserted as an ingredient up the food chain, so you and I wouldn't be able to know. exactly where these products are. So, in other words, they'd be used to make other products, right? If it's, you know, on the listed ingredients, contains milk, maybe in this one it would be, contains fermented, hormone-free, cruelty-free milk. Exactly. By the way, it sounds disgusting. It sounds like cottage cheese gone bad.

But anyway, I mean, I'm sure it's lovely. It just doesn't sound very tasty. It's different, for sure. I mean, there is this push, you know, Alex, there is this push away from. animal proteins, and obviously there are different ways to look at proteins in general from a environmental perspective, but mostly from a cost perspective, the problem with animal protein, I mean, you and I enjoy steak and cheese and stuff like that, but the problem is that prices do fluctuate quite a bit. And obviously, it really is catching a lot of people's

attention. Investors are looking into some of these technologies because they are concerned about price volatility and a lot of people are, really. And so, yeah. I mean, it opens up some interesting avenues. Like what could it mean in the next few years replacing milk, you know, like the milk cartel in that, right? It's not a bad thing to have choice.

We already have almond milk on the market. You can get plant-based soy products, right? But if there was actually a cloned milk using milk proteins from a cow, I think a lot of people could use that. And I think animal rights groups, all those groups would be happy. But could the cow or could the milk production industry take a hit from this? Is it that? Is the idea to put this into the mainstream at some point?

I think that's the intent. Now, whether or not they'll be successful, I don't know, because I'm sure you understand and appreciate that the dairy lobby would have something to say about this. And so that's why. And of course, when you look at the food industry, the dairy lobby will lobby the government, but the dairy lobby will also have friends within the food industry. So let's say, for example, remilk goes to a processor and say, hey, listen, we have a protein for you.

and the reaction may be, you know what, I'll think about it. And, of course, they'll stick to what people know. But the pressure is actually real. I mean, industrial milk prices are incredibly high, which is why I think a lot of people are looking into alternatives. And so I think it's just a matter of time before the industry starts considering an option like re-milk as a good one. not because of its environmental virtues, just because of price. Affordability.

Competitive. Yeah, well, look, again, if you can make this, cows are expensive and they're expensive to care for. And the other side of it is, you know, like, you know, the climate thing and cow farts and all that stuff. So it does, I guess, serve as a real alternative to people, but we'll see where that goes. Meanwhile, you know, cloned, we talk about clone milk, clone beef,

and then you've got, like, why is beef so expensive? and games being played with permits. And the fact is if the government of the day, the Carney government wanted to solve the price of meat, could they? It's possible. I mean, the big game right now with I don't proteins is how do you stabilize prices?

Because right now, it's just out of control. I mean, prices are out of control. It doesn't matter what technology you look at. It is absolutely out of control. So the industry is looking for ways to, keep the consumer engage and I'll be honest with you I mean the meat counter is big money for retailers grocers need traffic at the meat counter as much as possible and right now you're seeing many protein orphans looking for other options and so certainly they will want to resolve

that issue as soon as possible right well you'd think but the advisory committees haven't met since 2015. So what is the major issue causing the meat to go up so quickly? And could we see it come down? Well, this is a good question. I mean, first of all, in 2015, it is a really interesting day because that was the day that was the year, actually, that the Trude Governor was actually elected. So maybe it's a coincidence. Maybe it's not. I don't know. But I would say that right now we need more beef in the country and and frankly there seems to be no pressure added by Ottawa to get that committee to look into allowing more beef into our country there is no pressure from Ottawa to look into beef packing I would say that there are a lot

of questions marked there it's controlled by two foreign-owned private companies cargill and JBS. Nobody knows exactly what the margins are there. You can point fingers at the agriculture minister doing. Sorry, like, we do have an agriculture minister last I checked. Apparently, we do. His name is, do you know his name? Do you know his name? Do you remember his name? No. I think I should learn it though. But that, I mean, the fact that we're not hearing anything from this person, you know, this is a government that has for the last 10 years love to heap blame on the grocery stores. So we're talking about beef here. Yeah. We're talking about beef here. His name is Heath MacDonald.

So you should remember that. I should. I should. Well, from now on, having said all that, again, the beef won't come down unless we get either another alternative or essentially the permits are made so that more beef can come into the market. What are they doing with the beef now? Well, I mean, farmers in Canada, and a lot of people are probably wondering, well, we produce a lot of beef, how come beef is so expensive?

Well, farmers are price takers. They will sell to the best, the highest bidder. And other markets in the world, I mean, canadian beef is well thought after. I mean, it's a high-quality product. And a lot of people are willing to pay a lot of money to get cana and beef, no matter where they are around the world. And that's not going to change. And so, but in Canada, of course, not everyone actually has. an option or pay more on poor beef

so we need more product. We do. Options are good. Competition's good. I'm out of time. I so appreciate yours always. All right. Take care. There you go. still remains a story in the headlines all over the world. And we're starting to learn a little bit more about what happened in leading to this attack on a group of school kids

in the central coastal community of BC. This happening certainly last week. And over the weekend, we started to find out because there were a number of searches going on as far as teams out trying to find the bear, right? Or what could have caused this? but now we're learning, according to an RCMP report, because they were out there with their heat signatures

looking through the dense forest, that they think that they're looking for a mama grizzly bear and possibly her two cubs. And what happens when you run into a bear and her two cubs? Well, certainly, I guess it depends on the bear, and it certainly depends on, you know, how fast you can run. And even then, I don't think it'll help.

But, you know, ultimately, we're talking about grade four and five students and in all 11 got injured, mainly the teachers trying to save the lives of their kids. But again, who wants to go up against a grizzly? Let's ask someone. Let's talk to Mark Hall. He's the executive director of Wild Origins Canada Foundation joining us in beautiful Cranberry, B.C. I got that right.

Cranbrook, Cranbrook, Cranbrook, Cranbrook, B.C., good to have you. Hey, it's great to be here. All right. This story, certainly I don't think because you deal with, you know, behaviors of bears probably doesn't surprise you, but what does, like, what does surprise you about this? I think what surprises me about this, two things. The people of Belakula live with grizzly bears in their community. Like, it's just a part of life. I mean, right from the kids to everybody there, they know bears are close. They know right, right from. wrong. But the scale of this encounter being such a large group is kind of counter to all the bear safety stuff of like being, you know, traveling in large groups, these sorts of things, to see a bear confront people in a situation of, you know, being in such a large group. As far as I know is unprecedented the number of people that were involved in a single event here. Yeah. I mean, we're

talking about a small indigenous community, so they very much know the land, they know the terrain, and they know the threats, they would also probably know more so than anybody of what to do in a circumstance where you approach or even meet one of these animals, never in never thinking that, you know, maybe you're meeting mommy, you don't realize there are a couple of kids close by. Is, and I'll let you kind of answer, you know, and clear some facts straight, does it matter what kind of bear you're dealing with when the babies are close? Like, Is it a grizzlies worse than the rest, or would they have all been in trouble if they had met these cubs and the mom? There's a big difference between the behaviors, aggressive, defensive behaviors of a grizzly bear and black bears.

Grizzly bears evolved over the millennia to be able to defend themselves, their food, their space, their offspring on stepped tundra habitat. So it's basically eye to eye. Black bears evolved later when the boreal four started to develop in North America. Their main defensive strategy is up a tree, put cubs up a tree, mom stays at the base of the tree. So the level of aggressiveness, the level of ferocity of the animals and taking out a threat is much more severe with grizzly bears than black bears. we are seeing a tremendous increase in black bear attacks in Canada as well and fatalities, you know, in recent years. But overall, grizzly bears and the consequences of the injuries from grizzly bears are much more severe. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at a picture of a grizzly. They've got very

long nails. They've got very sharp teeth. And it's really only what I remember picking up a little like a cub. I think they had brought it to work. And it was like an orphan one. When you feel the density of these animals. It's just incredible. But how big are they? How big would this mama bear have been? How big would her cubs have been? And could you outrun an animal like this? Or what do you do? You know, you definitely couldn't, couldn't outrun them over short distances. They have the ability to, you know, burst, speed bursts that rivaled out of a horse. So, you know, you're not going to outrun them. And it's hard to say on the side. you could have a young female with yearling cubs versus an old mature female with two or three

or old cubs the size range could be you know anywhere's from you know 300 pounds to you know five or 600 pounds and and the cubs would very i don't know exactly would the babies have gotten involved would they have scattered because they seem pretty big like a baby i think we're thinking is seven or eight pounds but you like i think the babies we're talking about are quite big would they have run if if if they were there You know, this year's cubs, one-year-olds, they would have been born, you know, in February. They're going to be kind of like, you know, large-ish, medium dog-sized, probably would be too scared to get involved.

The danger with grizzly bears is when you run into a sow and she's got two or three-year-old cubs, they're teenagers almost, and they're starting, you know, to kind of assert themselves. And they can get caught up in the frenzy of their mom. losing it and join in, which is what I understand might have happened with Joe Pendry from my community who was mauled in early October and passed away a few weeks later, is that potentially all three bears were involved there. So what would you do, you know, like in a situation like that? I mean, obviously we don't have all the details, as I understand, teacher would have tried to like protect the kids but is this one of those things that when you come upon it it's just like

what would you do because if you can't outrun them and there's that many of you and you know you've got one chance what what do you do you know i think you know what you do starts with your preparedness of going into bear country um you know looking for sign scat tracks uh even just you know the area if you know bears and you know bear country it's like hey this is probably you know a good spot they might be coming here or traveling through um so just that awareness uh you know eyes and ears you know always open to what you're doing and you need to be carrying some type of defensive um system and that can be bear spray or that can be a firearm um there's a lot of controversy around that uh the way i look at it is you're better off to have a defensive system

than nothing at all are they more aggressive at this time when you encounter a bear food? Well, they are in a period where the bears are called hangary. They're hungry and angry at the same time. It's a matter of life and death for these bears to get enough calories and enough fat to go into hibernation. The worst case scenario is a surprise encounter at very short distances with a sow with cub.

They rely on their nose. We rely on our eyes. So when we have a situation where these two beings that use their senses differently, sound might be muffled by the forest or by a stream or by the wind. The bear's upwind rather than downwind. These two things come around a corner. There they are. Very short distances like 40 to 50 yards is incredibly threatening for a sal with cubs.

And her immediate response is just the thunder and take you down and try to disable you and then get away. I've only got like 40 seconds, but, you know, they're looking for these animals. It just seems really unfair, despite the attack itself. Would they kill these animals if they're just being what they understand themselves to be? The conservation officers have a predator attack system that they're going to use here. They're going to, if they can, catch, confirm that they have the right animal. They will assess, or a veterinarian will assess the animal. They'll be looking for signs of, you know, injury, sickness, anything.

like that and and then they will make a determination whether they would be a continued threat to the people of the community or if they were candidates to be relocated. Boy, oh boy, fascinating. I wish I had more time. It's just a fascinating story. I thank you for your time. Thank you. There you go. That's Mark Hall with Wild Origins Canada Foundation. I really still don't know what I would do because you clearly, it's like you're a bit screwed. Right? Nonetheless, we'll find out what happens. happens with these animals. I want to stamp myself one of the best players to ever play this game.

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