The Ben Mulroney Show - Amazon makes a play for TikTok. Will this change online shopping forever?

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Amazon makes a play for TikTok. Will this change online shopping forever? with Guest: Mohit Rajhans Mediologist and Consultant, ThinkStart.ca -Canadians living Paycheque to Paycheque with Guest: Dr. Eric Kam, Economics Professor at Toronto Metropolitan University If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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But here we are a huge story, but could be a huge story I don't know to talk about a big big story in tech as well as a few other stories We didn't want to wait till our regularly scheduled appointment with this man. We want to jump right in today So let's welcome Mohit Rajan's mediologist and consultant with thinkstart.ca. Mohit, thank you so much for being here. We got to talk about this possible coming together of Amazon and TikTok. If this is real, this could be huge. This could be huge. And I'm so happy to be talking with you

today. You know, this NBC first reported this this idea that Amazon is a late entry into bidding for Tik Tok. Obviously, anybody who's followed the story knows that the US has threatened to ban Tik Tok and kick it out of the country and follow suit with many other countries. If it hasn't been divested of its financial interests from China, Amazon comes in in a very interesting way. I got to admit, Ben, if you, you and I both follow social commerce and commerce, and we understand that there are many different companies that try to amalgamate and get a bigger market share. I

think to be honest with you, if Amazon was serious, they would make a very, very good partner in buying TikTok. In what way? I mean, I get it. There's people buy a lot of stuff on TikTok, people buy probably even more through Amazon, explain to me why this could be a good fit, because I, I don't know enough about those two ecosystems to see how they could be mutually beneficial. So let's take it back down to the fact that TikTok now doesn't

want to be a place where it's just endless scrolling. In fact, they've started to commit to the endless aisle when it comes down to shopping. And there's a lot of shopping that happens on that app to begin with. It's video shopping, it's live shopping. They've redefined the way that people connect when it comes down to e-commerce. But on the other side is Amazon,

where their fulfillment has created a world that's completely different than it was 10 years ago. Amazon doesn't have anything like this in their ecosystem, even though deep down inside, a lot of it is run on Amazon products. So I think there's a real gap that they fulfill here from straight to consumer. I, you know, I don't think the tech talk that was 10 years ago and sort of started with this just by a reality of one or two creators is where it is anymore.

It's really a place where you get a lot of advice, do local shopping and find out what what's trending. I gotcha I gotcha. Well, only time was I've lived a great life without tik tok and I don't care what it turns into I don't need it. But I don't know maybe the Ben Mulroney show does maybe we'll find ourselves on tik tok one day we'll have to see. Okay, let's let's talk about this other story. Nearly half of US teenagers said they were online

almost constantly. I mean, that's terrible. That was 24% just a decade earlier. One third use social media sites like YouTube almost all the time. And parents are only, I guess, only now realizing that their kids need a digital detox. 68% of them said their children under six needed a

digital detox. I mean, have we have we crossed the Rubicon? Are we past the point of no return here? I do think so. I kind of look at digital technology the same way that certain households handle sports. And the way it is like, you know, some people really enjoy this idea of connecting on sports and bonding on it. And other households have now determined that, you know, they're happy and fine with technology and okay with it and being outside but not inside of the house. But the truth is that, you know, even if you ban cell phones inside of schools, which many schools have done this past couple of years, there's still this reliability that happens in a connected world. And we're, in some cases, doing our kids a disservice when it comes down to

at least acknowledging that these phones and this connectivity is all a part of what they're actually growing a custom use a custom to using on a daily basis. Okay, well, what about what about AI in classrooms? I mean, we're always worried about kids using AI to cut corners. But now we're talking about deepening the integration of AI into Ontario classrooms. But I'm really shocked about how quickly technology is moving.

Just last year, I was receiving notes as a parent from two separate school boards about the banning of any AI use in any form of education. As I start to follow the bouncing ball across the country from Alberta right to here, school boards are starting to put out emails expressing how AI is being used not only in the classrooms, but also giving students some leeway in what tools they can use. The problem, Ben, is it's not clear. And because it's not clear and the rules are not clear, kids aren't going to stick to the makeshift rules that are being prepared right now. AI has left the building, has left the stable.

And so I'm worried right now, even in the emails that I've received from certain school boards about the permission to use AI, it's not clear what the tools are. And you and I both know that they're growing every day. Well, and what's what's frustrating about this mohawk mohawk mohawk hit is that there are there are best practices out there. There are school boards, there are individual schools, there are papers that have been written about studies that have been done about how best to implement what

tools to use when to when to integrate them, how to approach these things with kids of certain ages. And it just doesn't say it seems like it's being done ad hoc. And when you do it that way, without a plan, you don't, if you don't know where you want to go, then you're going to end up somewhere you don't want to be. Excellent point case in point is social media, right? They didn't know how to teach it in schools, they didn't know if they should they shouldn't address it, etc, etc. And we saw decades of them trying to figure out how it is that they were going to react to social media use with artificial general intelligence in the way that we're future

proofing education, we in Ontario in Canada, especially cannot be left behind, because these students will not be prepared for the workforce ahead of them. Yet meanwhile, you've got you've got people who know a heck of a lot more than me about, about artificial intelligence warning that if we come over reliant on AI, it could change the way we think now I tend to believe based on what we've just said, that there's nothing wrong with changing the way we think. I mean, if these tools exist, they have to be part of They have to be part of the dynamic of of our lives and that that could in fact change how we think so long as

The way we're changing that Is is optimizing our work and bettering our lives and so again You have to have a plan you have to have a plan and you have to see who who's doing it well. I really don't care if my kids think through a problem differently than I, of course they're gonna think differently than I. I had a calculator growing up, I had a protractor growing up. They've got the world's information at their fingertips.

So of course they're gonna think through problems differently. Of course they're gonna conceive of their work differently and of their relationships differently. That's not a problem. So long as they're thinking of them in a better way than I did. Yeah, I think you make some great points. And what's happening right now is even the founders of this technology are starting to get scared that they're not putting the proper

warning signs associated with the diminishing of problem solving skills and critical thinking that could happen as a result. I see it in my own household. I have three different kids at different age groups. And to try to impress them with some of the things that technology is doing right now is almost like trying to introduce them to my music from back in the day. It's really tough for them to stop and say, yes, I'm impressed by that because they're seeing so much of it so fast. So this idea that we are diminishing is in our critical thinking is

definitely a problem to watch out for. Yeah, I just, I think it's a cop out when we say something like that. I think, I think it puts all the burden on the technology and it puts nothing on the creativity of the human mind to look at AI as a tool. It's not a burden, it's a tool. And what we're saying is, we're too dumb to figure out how to use the tool, we've allowed the tool to use us. But every single one, somebody, there's going to be a country out there that figures out how to use AI to make their kids be the highest

performers, and they're going to find a way to make them the most efficient employees, the most creative thinkers, there will be a country that does it, because they're going to say we're smarter than the tool. And and unless we unless we decide that that's who we want to be, we're going to be at the mercy of the technology instead of using it to amplify the best parts of us. Yeah, well, follow the money, right? Follow where the investments happen in which countries, you'll see which tech companies are actually excited about which populations

to do this. Well, Mohit, as always, I appreciate I appreciate our conversations. Did you do your your your keynote yet? I did not do my keynote yet is next week at DigiMarkon in Toronto April 16. Sorry, not even next week. I you know, I've lost my days, I will be on the CH Morning Live tomorrow morning about talking about AI and kids. So if you can tune in, please do that.

Thank you very much. That is Mohit Rajan's mediologist and consultant for thinkstart.ca and a good friend of all of us. Thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it. Welcome back. We are indeed on the Chorus Radio Network. We're also on all podcast platforms as well as the iHeart Radio app. appreciate it. comes in the form of the dilemma panel, where we ask you, our listeners, to write in and tell us your personal issue, your personal dilemma. And then a group of us get together and we try to solve it. If we don't solve it, well, we apologize, but we also hope we make it entertaining. So you can reach us by emailing us at askbenn at chorusent.com.

And joining me now to talk about, well, what did I just talk about? The Liberation Day and Trump and the tariffs and the election and what what's what Canada is going to look like moving forward. We're joined by somebody who never holds his tongue. Dr. Eric Kam economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University. Eric, thank you so much for joining us. Benedict, I have to give you credit. You found a way for work to pay for you to go watch an Alexander Ovechkin hockey game way to go. Oh my goodness. Listen, my dream, my dream, Eric is is if

when and if he breaks that record, I want Wayne Gretzky on the show the very next day. That's something I'm working on. If I can get Wayne Gretzky on the Ben Mulroney show to talk about, you know, one of those, there are very few of those, very few of those moments in sports where the unachievable is achieved and to be able to talk to the great one on the day after Ovechkin breaks his record, that would be a thing. Then really quickly, I was in line at Tim Hortons and the guy

in front of me orders a Wayne Gretzky and the girl behind the counter goes, What is that? He goes nine cream nine sugar. All right, Let's go. Let's let's talk about the here and now. Shall we? Trump Liberation Day. It happened yesterday. I'm not quite sure it.

I think it liberated a lot of investors from their money. But beyond that, I'm not quite sure why it was Liberation Day. How are the markets reacting today? The way you would think, they're reacting very poorly. Markets all over the world are down and heading further down. And I think that's what's so frustrating to me, in a sense, is that Mark Carney has come out like Superman in a cape.

And I don't know what he's bragging about. Our auto industry is about to collapse. 80% of our vehicles go to the United States. I see somewhere between 200 and 400,000 lost jobs in the auto sector. And you've got this guy running around Canada saying, you see, I saved you. I have no idea what he's talking about. We are headed for a recession that we haven't seen in a long time, Ben. Well, not only that, yesterday he stood in front of cameras on Parliament Hill, and he gave us a list of slogans of,

like, we're gonna retaliate, we're gonna be strong, and we're gonna fight this together, and we're gonna support workers, and he didn't put any meat on the bone. And in normal times, we would demand details. During these Trump tariffs, we should demand even more accountability. And during an election campaign with a candidate

whom most of us do not know, it should be the height of accountability and detail, and we're getting none of it. You're getting absolutely none of it. You know what you're getting? You're getting someone shoving their CV in your face. And I rarely want to come off as somebody who brags, but as someone who has a PhD in economics, I am not trained to run a country and neither is he. Those are two very

different skill sets, especially somebody who has the audacity to get up in front of a full room and say he's going to build a half a million homes a year or about 1500 a day. He is so trying to sell himself on what he did yesterday, which is exactly what he should do. He's a man of the day before yesterday with no answers for tomorrow, Ben. All right, Eric, let's move on because we are now living in a world of economic uncertainty, the likes of which we haven't seen in, I mean, I don't know how long. And now we're hearing that banks are more likely to deny mortgages for workers threatened by Trump tariffs. So this is a warning from brokers.

And I know we're probably weary about the government infusing money into industries to keep them afloat. But stories like this make me think that maybe it might be necessary. Or should we take a different tactic? Because I'm hearing from Pierre Poliev that I'm not hearing him talk about backing the industries. I'm hearing him. I'm hearing him talk about loaning money to the workers to get them through this time. Well, first of all, I hope that the Bank of Canada and the Chartered Banking System takes a deep breath and looks at this carefully. We cannot do what we did during the pandemic

and go and print 70% of all of the currency that's in circulation. If we do that, we're going back to an inflationary spiral. So I just wish that everybody would take a deep breath. Trust me, I'm worried about workers too. It's all I'm ever worried about when I talk about economics. But we can't do anything less than 24 hours after somebody drops a bomb on our economic situation. If we have to have payouts and buyouts to people that cannot manage because of this, because of structural barriers, that's one thing.

But it can't be something blanket and unilateral like we saw during the pandemic, Ben. So I'm really hoping that while that may be inevitable, it may be inevitable that there has to be some transfer payments or handouts. We don't do it today and we don't plan. As they say, don't do anything 24 hours after an exogenous shock. And I would say let's extend that to at least a week or so. And let's really see where this is going. Okay, before we just actually jump off the pier

and start printing out money for free. Well, if you're anything like me, and Eric, I suspect you are then when you hear liberal commercials, promoting themselves as as knowing how to build a strong economy at something that they're beating that drum really, really hard. I struggle to understand how they can then explain away this next story, or 20% of people's paychecks should go towards savings. However, on average, people in this study said that they only managed to put away 7% of their earnings and a whopping 85% of people surveyed feel that they are living paycheck to paycheck. It's the new norm. It's up 60% from 60% last year. Again, explain to me how over the past 10 years, you've been building a strong economy, you've proven that you can build

a strong economy, and these are the results. Well, they're lying. So first of all, that's right, the definition of insanity that you and I have been saying, if you want the same thing, just keep throwing the same solutions, right. So we know that they can't excuse the last 10 years only Mark Carney wants people to say, look over here, don't look over here. Number two, they brought in two policies, immigration and low interest rates. Immigration failed immensely, low interest rates.

Okay, so you keep consumption at a significant level, but we know that provides zero economic growth. And let me tell you, that $200 away from insolvency or 85% of the people aren't saving garbage, nobody's saving right now the average savings rate in this country is negative people are spending about $1 10 to $1 12 of every dollar they make our economy is severely broken and if we don't find a way to ignite some long run economic growth, Ben, I'll say it again, long run economic growth, we are in for a depression that we haven't seen since 1929. And is that that's not fatalistic of you to say, is it?

No, it's not fatalistic. The problem is, is that people keep saying things like you just did. I'm not blaming you. It's the new norm. It's the new norm that we're an economic insolvency. It's a new norm that people can't afford houses. It doesn't have to be this way. But it will be this way. If you take old ideas and try to run them up the flagpole again. We need new ideas. We need new ways to approach a dynamic economy. The person you spoke to in the studio yesterday has some new approaches. The other person has no new ideas and Canada is missing that point right now. Well, yeah, well, Pierre did say Mark Carney and is in his speech prior to coming into studio yesterday said Mark

Carney is all resume no policy. And you're you're an economist, we talked we touched on it off the top. Has he is there anything he's saying besides these, the policies that he's lifted from Pierre Poliev, is there anything he's saying that you say, okay, that could put us on the right track? No, I have heard nothing from the liberal campaign that I believe in right now, because all they're doing is rerunning old ideas and old policies that got us to where we are today. And if anybody is happy with where the economy is today, I can't help you. It is time for economic

growth. We basically have had none been Ben, none for the last four years. How long can a capitalist economy go on without any type of growth before it starts to undermine the money market and the labor market? While you've seen the money markets get undermined, the biggest leading variable we have, stock markets, they're crashing.

The economy always follows what the stock market does. So before you let the labor market go to hell in a hand basket, please, somebody, let's try for some economic growth and the liberals have no answers. Oh, yes, but with Donald Trump looming on the horizon, they're the ones who can handle him because, you know, they've handled everything so well up until this point. So I can't help people who don't want to help themselves,

but hopefully people like yourself with letters after your name may be able to sway them a little bit. Eric, thank you so much for joining us today. Stay healthy and enjoy the nation's capital, Ben. Want to transform your space and your Sundays? Well, Home Network is giving you the chance to love your home with $15,000.

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