The Ben Mulroney Show - Another MP crosses the floor to join the Libs / A Toronto cop in hot water

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate Advisory, former VP WestJet    Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former senior aide to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty   GUEST:  Joe Warmington / Toronto Sun Columnist     If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. All right, this is what we're looking into in our podcast today. We had, as always, a great political panel this week in politics, the Wednesday edition, with Regan and Andy. There is a new floor crosser that's bringing the liberal government ever closer to a, majority in the House of Commons, I put the question to them, does that make it more or less likely that we as a people could be back at the polls sometime soon? And then we spoke with Joe Warmington of the Toronto Sun. There's another police officer who's in hot water. This has

nothing to do with the corruption scandal that rocked the Toronto Police Service just a few short weeks ago. However, this police officer has a slightly controversial past and even more controversial future. And there's money to fortify Jewish spaces after, well, we know the three synagogues that were shot at. Now another one has been vandalized. And I got to ask, is this the way to go? What does it say about our society if we have to fortify our places of worship?

So let's get right into it. The Ben Mulrudey Show podcast. The Mark Carney liberal-led government is inches ever closer to a majority with the announcement today that Lori Idlout, the Ndepidlop, the Nunevut, has crossed the floor to the liberals. Here to talk about that and so much more. We're joined by Andy Gibbons and Regan Watts for our Wednesday edition of this week in politics. Welcome, gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining me.

Good afternoon, Ben. Okay, so we got to talk about this one, and there's lots of ways to skin this cat. but I keep going back to the fact that this is a party, the Liberal Party, has attracted people from who have been lifelong conservatives and now a member of the NDP. And I guess my question is, what's it like, what do they have in common? What does Chris Dantremont, Michael Ma, have in common with Lori Idlout?

They are now liberals under the same banner, rowing in the same direction. and what is attracting them to the same party, Andy Gibbons? Confidence in Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada. I was struck, Ben, I watched the footage of this Member Parliament, Lori Lideout, walk into the caucus room and the warmth of the room and the hug from Chris Autrum. I mean, it's always a warm scene, but something's happening there, and it's very positive for the government. And look at the stealthy way they're managing these.

I mean, no leaks. It's always a surprise. And if you're parapoliav, I mean, beware the aides, right? This is not a great scene for him. And Regan, I get it. Like, the liberals know how to win, and I'm not suggesting dirty tricks or anything like that. Not at all.

I get it. I get that people want to be on a winning team. And specifically in Lori Idlout's case, I actually give her quite a bit of grace on this. I think she saw that the government was lacking in its ability to help and represent properly the needs of people in the North. And she is that voice. I get that 100%. But if I'm a guy like Chris Dantromal who is a lifelong conservative, what does success look like?

Legislative success in a party, working in a party that has room for somebody who would, was just yesterday a member of the NDP. It's a good faith question. Well, look, I think there's a couple of things here, Ben, that we should be talking about. And for your listeners, I should disclose. I actually managed the Conservative Party of Canada campaign in the 2008 election in Nunavut.

And for the first time in the history of that party, we had a conservative who was elected, a woman by the name of Leona Agluka. So I know a little bit about Nunavut politics, not a ton, but a little bit. for those south of Nunavut, they may be surprised to learn that the Nunavut provincial legislature, for example, governs on a consensus basis. Why I raised that is because federal politics in that part of the country isn't terribly partisan.

And so, you know, Leona, who we got elected, I feel comfortable saying this could have been just as at home running for Paul Martin. And in fact, the Paul Martin liberals tried to recruit her before she ran for Stephen Harper. And so to see a member of parliament from Nunavut crossed the floor isn't really a shock because they're not ideologically driven. In fact, they care about one thing, which is improving their community. It's actually quite admirable how close they are to trying to lift up the north. So what that means for the government, I think, is less insight into the fact that a Nunavut MP crossed the floor because that's like she doesn't really have deep left-wing ties. But for Chris Dantramal, it's kind of a strange one because it's an answer.

Andy's point, it goes to show that his crossing of the floor was far more reckless. And the prime minister clearly didn't like to see the leaks that he had last time. And so during that period. So he's, and we saw this with Michael Maugh. And we saw again with Matt Jenneroo a couple weeks ago. And now this one, which is it's a much more carefully managed process. So what it means is that the prime minister, the central banker that many people thought would struggle with politics seems to be catching on pretty quick.

And I'll stay with you on this for just a minute. Does this make it ever more likely? We've got three by-elections coming up. I think the liberals are expected to win at least two of them, which would give them that magic number of and being able to have a functional majority in the House of Commons. Does that make it less likely that we are going to head to the polls anytime soon? Look, I don't think it changes the calculus around whether we have a general election.

You know, the prime minister is no different than other prime ministers beforehand. He seeks to govern, but he's also a politician and seeks to hold power and win mandates from Canadians. I don't think you can, this majority of the Prime Minister, if he does win these free by-elections, is going to last for too too long because, of course, we have in Toronto, Nate Erskine Smith, who while he's busy campaigning on as a run for the provincial liberal party in Ontario is being paid as a federal MP. He will eventually step down from his seat if he's a liberal candidate provincially in the greater Toronto area and an upcoming biolars. election there. And we have Alexander Bouleriste, who is a Quebec-based MP,

who that is a seat that could possibly go to the liberals. Who knows? But the prime minister does not have a working majority, and I can see him making the case, given everything that's going on in the world, that despite a one or two-seat majority, that Canadians will give him the benefit of the doubt, if he decides to go to the polls and make the case for why we need another election. That said, it could be this spring, it could be this fall, but I don't think the prime minister is

is getting, you know, we're going to get away from not having an election if he has a one or two-seat majority. Andy, let's move on and talk about, it seems like Iran's, the regime's tactic, and what they're trying to achieve in this war is to sow as much chaos in the region as possible. And inflation is going up, and gas prices are, and oil prices are fluctuating tremendously. And do you think this is going to get the team Canada focus back on, you know, building out, our natural resources so that we can offer, I don't know, calm in the storm. The Middle East is not going to be a stable region anytime soon. And, you know, say what you want about, you know, Ezra Levant.

But he did coin the term ethical oil. And I think that that is an apt way of describing what we offer the world. We offer oil that was, like if there's blood diamonds, there's blood oil. And we are the exact opposite. Do you think that there's a silver line? as it relates to what we need to do as a nation here? I hope so, but I'm not sure. I listened to Tim Hodgson,

the Minister of Natural Resources comments today. They weren't raw, raw Canadian industry will meet the moment. They were very measured, as he is, very measured and very professional. I guess for me, Ben, the question is, given the decade we've had as a country, are our international partners looking to us for these answers, or is this a discussion we're happening on the Ben,

O'Ne Show and CBC and the 5 p.m. political talk show. So that's what I'm looking for. Is that demand coming from our allies and our friends and other countries, or is that a conversation just we're having? But based on Hodgson today, I think the answer is sort of, but they're already there on that need, but I don't expect him Hodgson to say ethical loyal to Paris as a relative to the day. So I think sort of mixed. No one really knows fully where this will twist and turn, but I would say, I would say mostly yes. Regan, your thoughts? Look, I think Andy's got it right.

And I think, you know, one of the things that would help going forward is if Canada had its act together when it comes to resource extraction. Because we wouldn't be having conversations are, you know, like we're having today, we can be talking about more proactive measures like, how could we sell more oil and gas to the parts of the world? Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, we are, we've got to.

just about a minute left, so I don't know that I want to start our next topic, but I'll introduce it. You know, there is something to be said for moral clarity, right? And whether you like the conservatives or not, you know where they stand. And our, the government has been calling Iran bad, but maybe it's time we started calling them terrorists. They funded virtually every bad actor in the region. And now instead of attacking American targets, they're laying minds in the Strait of Hormuz to target commercial shipping and trying to hit the Dubai airport. Meanwhile, on the other side, you've got the Conservatives under Melissa Lansman saying, they were giving the liberals one week to table a plan to deport Iranian regime officials,

crack down on terror financing, coordinate sanctions enforcement, reassess Canada's terrorism threat level, close the national security gaps, finally establish a foreign influence registry, stop approving refugee claims without in-person interviews. It's not complicated. Iran's regime must not find safe haven in Canada. All Canadians deserve that. We're going to talk about that on the other side of the break. Don't go anywhere.

This is The Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. It's this week in politics, our midweek panel. And I'm joined by Regan and Andy. Welcome back, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. You're welcome.

Okay, so what do you think of the gauntlet thrown down by the conservatives? Melissa Lansman threw down a list of demands that are pretty hardcore. These are pretty clear in terms of what they're asking the government to do, to deport the IRGs. see officials who've been living here and crack down on terror financing and the like. And it has been an exercise in trying to follow the bouncing ball in terms of the tweaks to the position that the liberal government has taken on this war. As the circumstances change, so too apparently does the position of the government.

What do you think of this tactic, Regan? So a couple of things. First, I applaud Melissa, who continues. to be an outspoken and an outstanding voice on the Iranian issue. She has been a clear advocate on this for many years, and this is the kind of thing we expect our parliamentarians to do. I thought the plan that she had rolled out and her press conference was pretty straightforward, actually. I just, you know, there's nothing here that you can look at and go, well, that's, that's out of the question. I actually would say, though, I don't think it's as politically

ambitious as it could be. You know, the government, the thing she had called for, you know, deporting regime officials, cracking down on terror financing, closing security gaps, establishing a foreign influence registry. I mean, these are all things that the government is going to say they can do. So for the conservative party, they should, you know, put their heads together and start thinking about ways that this issue can trip the government up because, you know, they let the government off the hook last week or this week, pardon me, when Parliament returned. And, you know, the prime minister announced the day of the bombings that the U.S. commenced that he was, we were in full support.

And then two days later, he changed his mind. And then a day later, he changed his mind again. And the government had been flipping and flopping on this Iranian issue for a while. And, you know, I think the conservative party has an opportunity to hold the government and their feet to the fire on this one. And Melissa's is a good step forward. I just think there's more room that they can go. But, you know, Melissa is a good MP, and this is a good start. Andy, I pointed out last week, very glad that we had a debate on this very important issue.

Wished we had a debate on the Palestinian statehood, because nobody brought that up until it just happened. But at least we're doing it here. Do you agree with Regan? I do agree with Regan. I thought it was a very disciplined excursion for the opposition. So if you accept them as the government in waiting, Ben, I think they showed their discipline and their focus and their intelligence. And this is something that people have called for for a long time. I mean, look at Zara Kazami, like go back and come back about that case.

And then the shooting down of the Ukrainian airliner full of Canadians, mostly from Edmonton, this is not some fantasy thing or mega wish list. This is a practical issue about the safety and security of Canadian. And imagine a scenario where the government of Canada didn't do any of this, Ben. Yeah. And it was discovered that IRG officials were in Ottawa. applauding and working and, you know, using their proximity to United States, this is kind of been a no-brainer.

Yeah. But I agree with Regan on Melissa and her leadership. And, you know, if you want to know what a conservative government would do in this instance, she filled in that blank and did it very professionally. As I've said many times, unfortunately, this country doesn't take the thing seriously that we should be taking seriously. If the government follows the lead of the conservatives on this, we can cross a lot of that unsurious stuff off the list.

and I think it's very important. National security is important, and the safety of Canadians is important. Let's move on to the political play of the week. This is the political play of the week. Regan, you're up first. Well, I've got to, Ben. My first political play of the week is for Steve McKinnon and Prabb Sarkaria.

Steve is the federal transport minister. Prab is the provincial transportation minister. They announced preclearance at Billy Bishop Airport on Monday. this is the kind of announcement that governments do where people respond and can wrap their heads around it. Anybody who is flying anywhere, anywhere in the United States, particularly out of Canadian airports with U.S. direct access, know that there's preclearance. Billy Bishop was the one exception, and Steve and Prab deserve credit enormously so for getting preclearance there, because it's been many, many years.

I'm not sure it's because of Westshed and the former lobbying that preclearance didn't show up at Billy Bishop, now that it's there, I think it's a great thing. And then my second political play of the week, Ben, is you. You are 50 years young. Your listeners are blessed to hear you every day. I am blessed to be your friend. But, you know, to make it to 50 and to look so good and to have a wonderful family and wonderful kids like you do is no small achievement.

So my political play of the week goes to also Ben Morny. Well, thank you very much. All right. Listen, the brown-nosed of the week goes to Regan unless, and you. Gibbon can come up with something better. Well, you know that... And I'm kidding, Regan, by the way. Thank you for saying those kind things.

You would have been Regan last, had you known. So that actually was not teed up. Echo those sentiments. I can't top that, Ben. I'm sorry, but I will go with Premier Doug Ford this week. Yeah. Because you said the quiet thing out loud. And I think everyone, but the 260 residents of Toronto Island,

we're like, yeah, let's go. So just what, just for your listeners, what he said. He was asked about Billy Bishop runway expansion. And just for context for our listeners outside of Toronto, Billy Bishop is the second airport in Toronto. It's the island airport. It operates up Porter Airlines and Air Canada operate out of there. It's been a massive commercial success, a popular success.

And about 13 years ago, there was a fight that the people who, were pushing for progress and to make it an even more important hub lost that fight to the no-jets-TO group that insisted that that that jets on the island airport would uh i don't know i don't know what they thought but they won and now it looks like uh well you why don't you go on with it well you know where have you gone adam vaughan jet snow turned his lonely eyes to you anyways my uh my play the week goes to doug for because here's what he said ben he said i don't want to be rude folks. There's 260 squatters on the island. There's 260 squatters on the island paying a dollar a year. And this is the quote, we aren't going to worry about the one

percenters that affected 99 percent of the rest of the population. And I think this is why he's the most popular politician in Canada. This is why he has three majorities. And it's obvious, too, when it comes to the city of Toronto and how it shows to the world, this is something he really cares about and thinks about, and that's a good thing. So play the week for Premier Duck Ford. And look, we only have a couple of minutes left, so I'm going to just lay it out very quickly, and then I'll get your opinions. You know, I do believe he's been thinking about the redevelopment of Ontario Place

for years. And this design, a lot of people think it's been happening by accident. But when you think about Ontario Place and the Science Center, the downtown relief line attached to Ontario Place, filling in a part of Lake Ontario for a massive convention center as well as taking over the control that the obstructionist on city council would have absolutely led to when it comes to the advancement of jets on that island airport. He has an ambitious plan that it's going beyond just a hodgepaw, a collection of developments, but this is a massive hub downtown that could really rewrite the dynamic of the city region.

Look, I totally agree with that. You know, whatever one thinks about Doug Ford, and there's people who say he's not conservative enough, and there's people who don't like him because, you know, liberals say he's too much of a bully. The guy has a vision. He's actually decided, you know what, here's this asset known as Ontario Place and the Waterfront, and has decided he wants to do something about this. You know, Ben, I've been to Washington, D.C., as I know you have,

anybody who ever gets an opportunity to go to Washington, I encourage you to go down to the waterfront in Washington. It is absolutely spectacular. And the waterfront in Toronto has all kinds of potential. And it's taking Doug Ford as Premier to push the levers of power to try and realize some of that potential. So you know what? Good on him. He'll be accountable to the voters when the ballots are counted next.

But at least he has a vision. And I want to applaud the Premier for that because it's in a high time we had a politician who was willing to stand up and fight for something like this that they believe in. Andy, last 30 seconds to you. Yeah, refreshing to hear Premier say what he thinks and does what he say. That says, I'll have to observe as well. He's come a long way from someone who wanted a casino on Front Street. Let's just say that, right? And I think it's something that people can get behind.

And I would particularly say the convention center shouldn't be overlooked because that is the future of tourism, is those high-level global conferences. And Toronto should have one of the best convention centers in the world. So good week for Doug Ford. Good week for Doug Ford. And to those squatters, as he calls them, on the island airport, by the island airport. If you want to live in cottage country, move to cottage country. But I am not going to allow you to cause play, be living in the country at the expense of the growth and success of Toronto.

Guys, thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon. Happy birthday, Benny. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Regan. All right, when we come back, we're speaking with a Toronto Sun columnist about another issue within the Toronto Police Service. This one surprised a lot of people. people. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything, like packing a spare stick. I like

to be prepared. That's why I remember, 988 Canada's suicide crisis hubline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. All right, Canada class is in session. Please take your seats. Put your cell phones away and pay attention to the front of the class because the professor, Craig Baird, the host of Canadian History X, is joining us. How you doing there, Craig? I'm doing well, thank you.

Okay, so I heard about this story a long time ago and I thought it was the most Canadian story I'd ever heard. Massive, massive heist of maple syrup. And it was such an interesting story that I believe Amazon made a show about it. Yeah, it's kind of a really crazy story. And like you said, it's a very Canadian story. So what we have is the Maple Serb Strategic Reserve, which was created in 2000. And by 2012, it was worth about $30 million.

So there's a lot of money there. And when you have money, people are going to try and take it. So what happened was between 2011 and 2012, a group of individuals stole the contents of 9,571 barrels worth $18.7 million from the warehouse. And the Serp was stolen from unmarked white barrels that were only inspected once per year. trucks were used to transport the barrels to a sugar shack where the maple syrup was siphoned off and then refilled with water and then it was sold in small batches in vermont and new brunswick and then in july 2012 an inspector was doing an annual inspection of the reserve and he climbed up on a

stack of barrels and one nearly fell over so obviously that's immediately suspicious because they're very heavy and it turned out the barrel was empty and then a bunch of other barrels were full of water and obviously at this point the investigation begins in 300 people are investigated. There's 40 search warrants and 17 people are arrested and they get quite a bit of time in jail. The worst was eight years in prison with a $9 million fine. Another person had two years in prison with an $850,000 fine. And like you said, it actually got turned into the sticky, which was a six episode series made by Prime that was released in late 2024. It is very loosely based. It's more comedic than the actual heist. The heist happens over a few hours rather than

a bunch of months and they made several changes to it, but it actually was a very fun series. I quite enjoyed watching it. It was fun, and I'll tell the listeners and the viewers on YouTube that if they're looking for something fun, it is like, yeah, you can tell as you're watching it. It's probably loosely based on facts, but what I appreciated is they hired French-Canadian actors, Quebec actors, to play Quebecers. And a lot of their dialogue was in French when they were speaking French with each, when they

were speaking with each other. More often than not, they were speaking French, which is what you would expect. And I like that authenticity that they didn't go out there and find, you know, American actors to butcher the French-Canadian accent. And it just kept me in the moment a lot more than other shows or other movies ever do. Oh, absolutely. And other than Margot Martindale and Jamie Lee Curtis, like you said, pretty much that entire cast was Canadian.

It was filmed in Quebec. It was a fantastic show, but unfortunately got canceled after one season. Okay, let's talk now about this week's episode of Canadian History X, the March West. Yeah, so this is kind of the fabled March West by the Northwest Mounted Police. They'd formed in May 1873 to deal with the American Whiskey Traders in Western Canada, and they began their March West to present-day Alberta on July 8, 1874. And the force consisted of 275 men, 310 horses, 143 oxen, and 187 Red River Carts. And as it moved on the prairie, it stretched out for 2.4.5 men, 310 horses,000.

But four kilometers, but the entire march was very poorly planned. It was full of difficulties. The guns the men had were not suited for hunting. The clothes were either too hot for the weather or took too long to dry after it rained. Horses died along the way because of a lack of water. Men became sick because they drank contaminated water. There was a lack of food. It was a whole thing.

Well, so what is I? Oh, okay, keep going. So the force actually got lost several times. and they needed the help of First Nations and Métis guides. It was actually thanks to Jerry Potts, a indigenous or a Métis man who actually was able to finally get them to where they wanted to be. And the force finally reached this destination of Ford Whopup on October 9, 1874. So that's around Lethbridge, only to find that the whiskey traders had long since abandoned the area. But this was the start of the Northwest Mounted Police in Western Canada.

I mean, I just assumed it was a more storied beginning. but let's go back to the beginning. What exactly were American whiskey traders doing in Western Canada that required the formation of a police force to deal with? Well, what they were doing was they were coming up and they were just essentially establishing forts like Fort Whopop up in Canadian territory. And then they were selling whiskey and such to the First Nations

and really destabilizing a lot of cultures. But it was especially the Cypress Hills massacre, which happened just before the force was created, where whiskey traders and American wolf hunters actually slaughtered about 20 or so a sine boine in the Cyprus hills after they believed they'd stolen their horses, which wasn't actually the case. And so that necessitated bringing the Northwest Mounted Police out to kind of keep the Americans from encroaching into our territory. And I mean, this seems like such a disaster of an outing. Is it because this newly formed Northwest Mounted Police hadn't been properly trained and the mission was. thrown together in a slapdash manner?

Absolutely. While you had people at the top who were very skilled, people like Sam Steele, you had a lot of raw recruits who had never really gone that far. And there was just, they're kind of going into unknown territory and assuming things like there would be tons of fresh water along the way when in fact there wasn't. And it was just kind of thrown together and very nearly failed, if not for people like Jerry Potts kind of guiding them to where they needed. to go. Okay, so before we go into the clip, just one more question was how sometimes out of crisis and out

of failure, you can, if you pay attention to why you failed, you can become better from it. Is that what happened with these guys? Did that, because eventually the Northwest Mounted Police had quite the reputation as, you know, as, I don't know, a police force that offered stability in common. When you saw them coming, you knew that help was on the way. Is that what happened here? Yeah, absolutely. It was a trial by fire for a lot of these young recruits. So they were, you know, over the course of those months going west, really became hardened outdoorsmen and learned how to survive out there and learned from the First Nations and then spread across the Canadian West to bring, you know, Canadian law and order to the area. All right. Well, let's listen to a clip of this week's episode of

Canadian History X, the March West. Believing they could save time, French and Northwest territories, Lieutenant Governor Alexander Morris, chose a new route through unknown and rather difficult terrain. Commissioner French assumed there would be drinking water along the way, and they did not bring large supplies of water which caused problems almost immediately. Only two days out of Fort Dufferin, Bagley wrote in his diary, We had nothing to eat or drink from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. Collected buckets of water by digging in the mud. By the third day, the horses were already becoming so weak that French ordered the troops to walk every second hour to give the horse's arrest. This may have helped the horses, but the terrain quickly began to wear down the men.

On the fourth day, the forest stopped at a small pond called Grant's Place. Wanting to quench their thirst after eating ducks, the men drank directly from the pond. Unfamiliar with what was called prairie cholera, the men developed a terrible gastrointestinal condition that would plague them on the trail as they endured days on the march and soiled pants. Who drinks from a pond? I mean, back then, what was it? Was it standard to not boil your water or anything like that? Did they not do that yet? I think it was just a lot of inexperience from people who had never been out there and just assume that if you see water on the prairie, go and drink it. Anybody who's lived on the prairie knows you'd never, ever go and drink stagnant water. Yeah, I mean,

I know that and I would, I wouldn't have lasted two seconds on this March West. I would have stumbled out the gate. And I know that. I sure. I mean, yeah, clearly they learned a lot from their mistakes and those who survived. Did anyone die on this March? I don't believe so. A lot of people came close.

People got lost, but no one died. And, you know, the fact that they received help from First Nations and Métis guides, what did that do? And the fact that they were, the Northwest Mounted Police were sent in to, I guess, help those groups who were being sold alcohol and he said destabilizing. Were the relations good between the Northwest Mounted Police and First Nations in Méti? Yeah, they actually were quite good. I mean, you had people like Walsh and Sam Steele who would work with people like Sitting Bull who came

into Canada and became friends with them. So there was a lot of respect on both sides. Well, thank you very much, my friend. This is Craig Baird, the host of Canadian HistoryX. This week's episode is The March West. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. And just a reminder if you want more BMS, we put out a podcast every day,

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