The Ben Mulroney Show - Are Ford and Smith the new tag team champions?

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

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We're uniting with Ontario to amplify our voices and double down on our efforts to carve a path forward together for Alberta, for Ontario, and for Canada. Through this agreement, we'll work together to explore ways to improve networks and corridors that better connect our energy and critical minerals to markets here at home, as well as international markets around the globe.

Yeah, so that's one side of the bromance. That was Danielle Smith talking about what they've decided that what's in the interest of one is in the interest of the other. They're going to work together to help each other as as everybody fights it out with the federal government to determine what constitutes projects of national interest. Here's Doug Ford stepping up to the microphone talking about what he's supporting on behalf of Alberta. No one will build a pipeline to tide waters

if there's a ban on tankers. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard of, ban on tankers. No one will invest in opening a mine if it takes 15 years to get it to yes. It's time to end excuses and it's time to start building and we need to start building now. Yeah, and to be fair, Danielle Smith said she's hearing a lot of good things

from this federal government. She's gonna give them the benefit of the doubt, but at some point soon, the words have to stop and the action has to begin. Here's Doug Ford again, talking about what these agreements that were signed between the two provinces will actually mean for the provinces themselves. That's what brings us here today to sign two new agreements between Alberta and Ontario that will open access to new markets and create thousands of new jobs across Canada.

These agreements are transformational. Ontario and Alberta are working together to build new energy and trade infrastructure, including pipelines and rail lines, so we can unlock the full potential of Canada's economy by diversifying our trading partners. Later on in the show, we're going to have the Energy Minister of the province of Ontario, Stephen Lecce, on to talk about these very agreements, as well as a possible rail line to the upcoming Ring of Fire that Doug Ford so desperately wants to unlock so that he can, as he says, unlock the potential

of Canada's largest province. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thanks so much for spending time with us. This is a national show, and every now and then, there are stories that happen in one province or another and you know you got to shoehorn in, find a way to make that provincial story or that's that thing that is specific to a city to make it appeal to the nation. But more and more as we are building out what our federal government is calling the one Canadian economy, stories that happen in one place affect

the entire country. And we saw that on display when the premiers of Alberta and Ontario came together behind a microphone to announce that essentially they were pulling for each other, that on a number of files they were going to advocate for the success of that other province, because if they work together then hopefully they can create enough momentum that the rest of the country will follow suit. It was quite refreshing to see. I hope it becomes the rule and not the exception. And because of that, it feels like the ambitions,

the energy ambitions of this country took a very big step forward. And so a person at the center of that is Ontario Energy Minister, Stephen Lecce. He is one of the busiest provincial ministers in the country. Seems like almost every day there is another announcement, another plan, another project that requires his attention and in a lot of ways, vision to see the future.

And we welcome the minister back to the Ben Mulroney show. Minister Lecce, thanks so much for joining us. Hey, I'm gonna be back. All right, so yesterday was a really big day. We don't often see that. You know, we see in that, typically we see Quebec protecting its territory against a pipeline or British Columbia saying, yo, it doesn't matter if Alberta wants to get to tidewater,

we don't want another pipeline through our province. So it's really nice to see these two big successful provinces who don't always see eye to eye coming together and finding common cause. Right. It actually is quite historic. It's a landmark agreement. I mean, for two provinces that have often historically through our confederation not always have the same interest in this moment. I think we're ending the provincial tribalism and we're coming together as caveats first and sort of thinking how do we unlock the full potential of Canada, Western resources, Eastern manufacturing has always been the grand bargain of our confederation

and I believe on trails played a critical role in unifying the country. There are opportunities for us when it comes to on trail steel building pipelines, building millways, building ports. You know, an agreement that unlocks or gets a commitment by Alberta to purchase more government vehicles

for their fleet from Ontario and for us to sell them small modular reactors. I mean, this is a win-win. We're creating jobs at Homes. We're getting energy security and market diversification because as your listeners will know, they sell all their product pretty much to America at a 30% discount.

And we all as Canadian taxpayers are losing tens of billions of dollars of money that otherwise could be going towards the social and infrastructure and the healthcare and education that I know we care about. So this is a small way forward to build, yes, one strong United Canada. You know, we still are not sure, at least I'm not sure yet,

what government we have in Ottawa. There's still a lot of questions and I'm hearing some good things. Danielle Smith said as much, she said, look, I'm going to give this prime minister the benefit of the doubt that he does want to build these projects of national importance, but at some point the words have to end and the action has to begin. So the rubber is going to have to meet the road at some point. That being said, it does feel like these two conservative leaders in in Doug Ford and Danielle Smith are presenting not as the opposition to to the government in Ottawa, because they want to work

collaboratively, but as that voice that is advocating for this rapid development. Are you as somebody who's inside the tent sensing that there is almost like a rump of developing, an alliance developing between the two provinces? Yes, I think it is strong. It's not just what the two, I think Saskatchewan would definitely be added. So I think we'd be interested to hear that even the democratic

premier of Manitoba, severe canoe has been actually quite a champion of nation building pipelines. Yeah. He doesn't like I mean, I'd be from the same party, same part of Canada, but it's just crazy. We have the 10th largest, top 10 largest supplies of natural gas and petroleum. It's either we step it up or fund it and see where enabling.

We're actually, we're going to be, we're going to be, because right our history today, we're going to keep importing Venezuelan, Russian, American, uh, products, energy products, which just seems so contrary to our, our values and our own national interests. Yeah. So I think that your board particularly has been very committed to the cause of national unity, but not during the days of the backstop. It's because of good economics. Field politics has changed.

It cannot depend on America. We have Line 5 then, which is a pipeline that moves natural gas and aviation fuels from the west part of Canada to Ontario. It goes through the U.S. The governor of Michigan has mentioned she wants to close that pipe. The president at any moment, the radicals of Michigan has mentioned wants to close that pipe. Yeah. Presidents at any moment, the radicals, as it can be, can close that pipeline.

We are entirely dependent on 100 percent of the airport fuel. Every plane leaving Pearson cannot go out without this pipe. Right. I say to Canadians, let's sort of I think we woke up after Trump. Yeah. Now do it. Yeah. She get on with the building.

Yeah. This announcement really lays the building. Yeah, this announcement really lays the groundwork for Minister let's talk about the Ring of Fire that sort of that hotbed that deposit of critical minerals in Ontario's north that is has been sitting there almost dormant of with, you know, with so much regulation unable for the province to tap and to take advantage of. And a lot of movement has happened on the provincial level to gain access to it. You're talking about possibly building a train line there. But you know, it has faced significant pushback

from Aboriginal groups. There has been a commitment from your government to consult with them. I got to ask, how are those consultations going? And who are you consulting with? In Ontario, we've got 133 different First Nations groups. Are you talking to one group that represents all, or are you talking to multiple stakeholders

who have different opinions on whether or not that area should be developed. Well, we're speaking with the ones that are both in the region and the ones that are most impacted by this type of economic vision we have for the region. We already have a window fire in Ontario, the summary basin, we already do traction and partnership with indigenous communities. We do processing with them as well. We believe partnerships keep them. And that's why we put three billion dollars on the table, not just to commit to consult, to give them the cash to buy in the project equity. They could really be in control of their economic destiny. So we're going to keep listening, keep working and focus the attention to those communities that are in that consensus circle that are

actually impacted by the ability that are within the Ring of Fire. There are many, but we already have an agreement for the roads with Ariland and Greenstone First Nation Chiefs. That's the gateway to the Ring of Fire. So my point is we can do this, but you're right. We got to do it in partnership, caution, and a sense of responsibility. And that's what the government is going to do. Are we, if you're, if you're on the side of the fence that says, I want this built, I want Ontario to develop the ring of fire. Are we in a better place today with our our partners in the First Nations communities than we were say two or three weeks ago?

You know, look, I think I think we're going to be in a better place once we get something out the door on social infrastructure and equity participation. I mean, these are just moments of time, months to months. I'm not sure there's tons of value in the comparator. I mean, it's challenging times when we do try to change the way we do business. I know that. I also know that.

And I do think we're going to be in a better place and people are going to give us a couple months to bench and I thought it's successful. We actually get some of the door. Or is it getting shut? Wasn't it growing to improve the lives of these communities? The cost of the lows and broadband and electricity to stop the use of diesel. It's just really, and not particularly environmentally sound. I mean, we want to do it for the quality of life.

We want to do this for our jobs for their kids. So I think we will get to a better place, which is gonna require a lot of work. And I think what you're hearing from us is we're ready to do the work. Yeah, I think the expectation that the consultation would have happened before, like I get that.

I appreciate the prior consent part of the requirement, but that also slows everything down. If you believe that speed is our friend, then for that to be the stumbling block would have been a problem. Get the law in the books, bring everybody on side and move along. Hey, Stephen Lecce, thank you so much for being here. I know how busy you are and I'm sure we'll talk to you again real soon. Thank you. Have a good day. just a bold new vehicle on the road. It's Nissan's number one selling subcompact SUV. With expressive style and advanced tech, Kicks is number one. Right now, lease the 2025 Kicks for the equivalent of $65 weekly for 48 months. Hurry into your local dealer today. S front

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