The Ben Mulroney Show - Are we no longer Canadian? We're settlers? Ok then.... Also, Hot Topics Monday!

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Guest: Dimitri  Soudas, Former Director of Communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper   Guest: Max Fawcett, Lead Columnist for Canada's National Observer -  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Well, I was really hoping that we were done with teachable moments. But there are still politicians out there that feel that it is within their purview to talk to us, you and me, the ones who pay the taxes that allow them to, waste our money, some of them, and focus instead on teaching us and talking to us like we are six-year-olds. And this is no longer coming from the prime minister. This is now coming from a B-C, an NDP-B-C-M-L-A. Now that's a salad of letters.

Here is a word salad. Even if we didn't personally cause colonization, we live in a country shaped by it. that's why many non-indigenous people, including myself, use the term settler, uninvited guest, or for white folks who self-describe as colonizer. When we self-refer as settlers, it's a signal to indigenous people that we understand the history of colonization. And I urge all members here to do the same. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, thank you, Rohingi Aurora.

But rather than me answer, I give you my reaction. I think this is a more appropriate reaction. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought? Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Yeah, look. Where was that from, please?

Billy Madison. In case you didn't know, Billy Madison. Here's not so hot take. You are a member of one of the most fiscally irresponsible and competent governments in the history of British Columbia. We have witnessed that incredible province descend into, depending on where you're living, either a folly or a hellscape. There is, there are questions about who owns land. there is money that's being lit on fire and there are people who are dying in your streets.

Do us all of favor. And if you get back to doing the things you were elected to do, I don't need you to give me lessons on history. Because, oh, it shows them that we understand the history of colonization. I don't think you do. I don't think you do because you are sitting in a product of colonization. You are sitting in the seat of government, which was invented in the, in the, in the, the United Kingdom in England. It is something that has spread around the world to the benefit of the world. Democracy as we know it in Canada is a net benefit in the world product of colonization.

And so please, please get off your high horse because you know what? That high horse belongs to us. You are there by the grace of the voter. And you are not a history professor. And I don't know what you did for a living and I don't particularly care because if you are so bad at being you are part of a terrible government. It's a government that is doing bad things. So if you can't

check that box, please don't try to moonlight as something else because you're going to be worse at that and you're demonstrating you are worse at history than you are at being in government. That's a terrible take. You say it with this nice, flowery tongue,

but what you're really saying is whity bad. Whitey bad. And you can't get there from here anymore. You can't get there from here. We sort of took a step back out of respect. And now we're like, hold on a second. You're driving us off a G.D. Cliff. So no.

No, we are actually, we're going to come back in. People like me, we're going to come back in and say, I'm part of this conversation. Oh, I don't have the lived experience. Yes, I do. because I live here and I have experience. So please, I'm not going to zip it anymore. And you can't tell me what my value is

or what I've brought to the table or what my ancestors brought to the table. I'll remind you, Rohini Aurora, I'm Irish and Serbian. I'm Slavic. That's where the word slave comes from because they were the original slaves. According to the, I mean, someone's going to comment

that they're not, whatever. And I'm Irish. And the glory of the. Irish is we never owned anybody and we never had an empire. We moved here because there was famine where we were from and we built our lives here like so many others. So get off the high horse and stop looking at history through a peephole because it's broader than that and it's broader than you and it includes everyone, including me, including First Nations, including new Canadians, including asylum seekers, including refugees, including the rich and the poor.

So please stop because your focus should be on spending money more efficiently, saving the lives of drug addicts who you've allowed to die, and figuring out how we can actually have reconciliation, which doesn't amount to a massive transfer of wealth with no accountability. If you can figure that out, yeah, then we can talk about history. But until then, stay in your lane. Yeah, because they do have a few things that they have to do. deal with in BC, don't they?

Just a couple. Just a couple. I don't know. I can list off maybe one or two. Well, the one thing they don't have to worry about is any of their teams winning a national championship anytime soon. New York, on the other hand, well, they, this is a problem that it almost feels like they saw coming and didn't care. There was, there were riots after the Knicks won their first, their first championship in the NBA in 53 years. A, Leaf fans, it is possible. And we can hope. We can hope. Let's listen. Do we have the audio of the... No. There's no audio. It's just basically screaming and yelling.

63. 63 arrests. 10 officers injured. That's the disgusting part. Four slashings and stabbings. Five school buses set on fire. I don't know why the school buses were down there. Why would you do that? They set them on fire, but they also ripped off the hoods. Cops were there and they sort of came in. The cops were outnumbered. They should have had the National Guard in there. I mean, listen, I could say five school buses.

So this riot was a demonstration. that riots are systemically racist because school bus is lit on fire disproportionately hurt the poor and disproportionately hurt racialized communities. That's where I could say that. But it's unhelpful. It doesn't help anyone.

And it's probably not true. And in fact, if you look at the people who are standing on top of these cabs because they were smashing cabs with the poor cab drivers standing by going, what am I supposed to? This is my living. Thank you very much.

And the people on top of the cab, it was every color under the rainbow. Yeah, yeah. It was just a mix of everyone. Equal opportunity rioters. Yeah. The Knicks winning brought the criminal element all together from all walks of life. Good for them.

Yeah, it's nothing like celebrating and destroying someone's livelihood. But when I saw that, it reminded me of a clip from Boilerm, which we could not use because it's laced with expletives. A few. A few. Ben Affleck, as he's trying to convince these young wannabe finance bros. that they're about to become rich. He says, go buy a suit because it'll tie you over until I make you a millionaire.

But this company relies on one expression. Act as if. Act as if you are the president of this company. Act as if you've been here before. Act as if this is not new to you, Nick's fans. Act as if winning a championship is what you're supposed to do and that you've done before and you expect to do every single time.

because this is this is juvenile stuff you're only hurting yourselves all that everything that just happened that's coming out of your taxes and you have a mayor who sure does like to raise taxes so if he raises taxes part of it's going to be because you made him do it he's got to he's got repair all this is probably millions and millions and millions of dollars in in in sort of repairs that have to be done so anyway it is what it is when we come back we are going to take a look at What a difference two years makes at the White House? Because I'm telling you, June 2024 does not look anything like June 2026. We'll talk about that next.

Right here on the Ben Mulroney show from coast to coast to coast on the Chorus Radio Network. Well, let me tell you what a difference two years makes. Over the weekend on Donald Trump's 80th birthday was for the very first time, one of the oddest spectacles I think a lot of people have seen. an actual UFC fight, a full ticket on the White House lawn. And I did not watch it for no other reason except I was very busy this weekend. And it didn't even pop up on my to-do list. But having seen it, it was as big of a raw, raw America on the eve of their 250th anniversary of the nation.

Moa members get cheesy wowsa deals at food basics. Get 320 to 400 grams selection cheese bars or shreds for just 398. Only with more rewards. Shop in store and online until June 17th. Food basics. Always more for less. It was America. It was America through and through with the exception of the one Canadian on the card

who walked into O Canada being played by the White House band. And yeah, there was some, there's a guy who said something pretty awful. which we are not going to play. It was really gross. But it was a lot of military service men and women. And it was, I think it was for them. And so there you go. Get in the way back machine and go to June 2024.

And you had, I mean, it was pride everywhere. Where the White House was decorated with the rainbow and you had drag queens and all sorts of stuff. And I'll say this. I'm perfectly happy living in a world of both. Uh, yeah, like neither one of these is something I would attend myself for no other reason, except I just don't do that sort of. I don't do big crowds and stuff and big events and sitting around.

Uh, it's just like, I don't, I don't do it. But I want to live in a world where, uh, the White House can be a place of, of welcoming to the military and the most alpha of them out there and have a, have a thing. And if you want to live in a world, if you're somebody who insists on living in a world where drag queen story time is a thing. thing, fine. I'll live in that world, but you also have to live in a world of the UFC and you got to let that go. And if you're going to turn the outrage up to 10 for one, then you have to expect and accept that there will be people turning up the outrage for the other. And if you're

not willing to live in that world, then you are something, you are something in society that has to be overcome because you are intolerant. And there you go. That's all I'll say about that. there is a lot of intolerance out there for Justin Trudeau going to a essentially making himself, making himself very comfortable in the United States. He's got an American girlfriend. He went to Coachella and then, and now he's at, he was at SoFi Stadium, I believe, for the first U.S. match of the World Cup. And he even applauded when they did well.

And a lot of Canadians got upset for a lot of reasons. And depending on where, You're like, listen, there are, there are people out there who, who, who, who, uh, bleed liberal red and they do not see the irony or the hypocrisy in booing, booing, booing the national anthem. And the Canadians booing the American national anthem. And I got into it on Twitter a little bit this weekend because of that. And this guy, uh, doing that and supporting this guy.

Uh, I, I don't care. Do what you want. The heart wants what it. wants. And yes, sure, he told us not to vacation in the States and he told us not to use plastic cups. And he told us and he told us and he told us and he told us and then he behaves a different way. But it's not a surprise. In 2021, he told us that we had to be ashamed of our history because they had discovered unmarked graves that they have not yet discovered. And he created National Truth and Reconciliation Day. I'm glad he created National Truth and Reconciliation

Day. They do a lot of good teaching for the kids at school. You know, we've got to be vigilant, make sure they don't teach misinformation. But it's a net positive. I'm glad he did it. He should have been glad he did it. He wasn't. He went surfing. He told us we had to sit there and mourn and learn. And he went surfing. So is anyone surprised about this? So this is not a problem for me. The observation that I have is there are a lot of Canadians.

who pointed this out. A lot of Canadians, big and small in terms of their following. The only thing that got him off the couch to defend himself on Twitter, it wasn't the Toronto Star, it wasn't the Toronto Sun, it wasn't anyone Canadian. No Canadian got him to stand up and defend himself when he wrote, sometimes supportive boyfriend duty calls. But you know who I'm rooting for to take the cup. Well, it's a trophy, but I'll let that go. he was doing it because he responded to the New York Times.

The New York Times. I think that in it, that's, that's the richness of this story to me. That's the rich texture of the story to me. That says it all. It says it all. I mean, who are you following on social media, sir? Yeah. There's a lot of Canadians who took issue.

There's a new video of him cavorting around in a park in San Diego. What? What? Yeah. It's pronounced San Diego. San Diego, yes. About about the Germans. It means a whales.

Yeah. He and Katie on a blanket, having a picnic. Listen, she spent time in Montreal and now they're spending time in her. She's a California. California, whatever. It's fine, man. Let them just.

And you know what, though? Just stay down there. Look, he knows he said this stuff. We know he said this stuff. We got our own problems to deal with. A lot of him he created. No sense in getting upset about this stuff. He's not relevant to it anymore.

Sure, you want to point out that he was a hypocrite. We knew that. We knew it was all performance. We knew. We're not learning anything new. That's it. End of the story. So now we go into the fun stuff.

Who are the best fans at the FIFA World Cup? Who are? Okay. I cannot speak English, but I'm excited. I'm excited. Okay, that's Japan. That's Japan before the match, okay? And by the way, he should be excited.

Japan pulled off a really surprising two-two draw. A draw, tie? Is it a draw? Yes. It's a draw. Very big deal, or so I'm told. What did Japanese fans do to celebrate? What did they do to celebrate?

Did they burn buses? No, they did not. Did they slash tires? Not that I'm aware. Were there 63 or? arrests? No. No. They cleaned the stadium. They literally cleaned the stadium. It's not OCD, it's Japan. It's true. And it's true. Let's listen to the motivation behind the cleanliness. But it's like respect for everything, respect for the players, supporters, and also for the

stadium. We're kind of owner of the TV here. So we don't want to make the mess and then leave it. So I think that's the reason why we're doing it. All right. So, so in contention are the Japanese fans. But I give you our early favorite. We called it last week, the Scots. Oh, the Scots. Oh, the Scots. So they're there in Boston, right? And one dude, and he wants everybody to know he's Scottish, he's been waking up the neighborhood. I guess he's an Airbnb with the bagpipes at 6. 30 a.m. Sweet.

Okay. Sweet sounds to wake up to. Yes, sweet, sweet sounds. Can you imagine every morning six, three? Okay. Now, the fallout from that should be blood-boiling hatred. Like, it doesn't even matter if you like them. No, like, who is this guy and how can I bludgeon him to death and send him home in a casket?

That's what it would be. Unless, until you realize that these Scottish fans are the most charming people on the plan. right? The most charming people on a planet. So let's get an update from Sky News as to how this hatred in the neighborhood must be growing at its roots in its core. How is the hatred going after the bagpice when waking everybody up at 6.30? It's part of the World Cup magic that I'm experiencing for the first time. We had the lads over for breakfast.

We had some good talks. They charmed my wife, made friends with my wians. And lo and behold, Helena Devine from Twitter, a Scottish lady, bought me a ticket. And here I am headed to the game next week. You're calling the kids the Weeans. You're wearing the Morrison Tartan scarf. You're one of us. I'm going to fake it until I make it.

They have turned every host city into a traveling street party. They made them breakfast. They made them breakfast. Scottish supporters have been tailgating with Americans, swapping jerseys with Mexican fans, joining marching bands in host cities. Everywhere they go,

it seems like they are creating a moment. There are viral clips of the Scots leading sing-alongs on subway trains, forming conga lines through fans, zones turning random street corners into mini tartan army rallies. And if you wake up a Bostonian with a bagpipe and you make a friend for life, that is a level of charm that must be upheld as a lesson for the world. A lesson probably for the people living around Rogers Stadium here in Toronto who don't

like to put up with the noise. Be a Bostonian at 630, I say to the people near Downsview. That's all I'll say there. We're talking with Dimitri and Max Fawcett next. We've got lots to talk about in the world of politics and beyond. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulrini show. All right, well, I've been doing a lot of talking,

so I'm going to turn the mic over to two of my best guests. Please welcome. Dimitri Soutis, former director of communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper. And Max Fawcett lead columnist for Canada's National Observer. Gentlemen, I hope you had a great weekend. You as well? Happy Monday. Happy Monday.

All right, let's talk about Bill Marr said that Trump has claimed peace with Iran, is near so many times that writing a joke about his pointless because the situation changes before he could finish the punch line. Now, we are learning about this this peace deal thus far. Max, what are your thoughts initially? Because based on what I was expecting out of this campaign, it doesn't feel like the goals that were set out are anywhere close to being achieved here. The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power is designed for your everyday. And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your bill at Chevrolet.ca. Details at J.D.power.com.

No, none of the goals have been achieved, I think, other than getting Trump out of the mess that he started for himself, you know, the Strait of Hormuz is not open. It will be open, I suppose, later this week. We don't know the terms. We don't know how much money is being paid to the Iranians. I've heard rumors of many tens or maybe hundreds of billions of dollars. We don't know what the future of the nuclear program is. We don't know if they're going to continue to fund their proxies. It feels like a giant defeat that is going to try to be spun as a victory. And look, maybe it's a victory for financial markets.

It's a victory for consumers of refined products and oil and gas. But the Americans walked into Iran and by all accounts got their butts handed to them here. And the only go ahead. No, no, please continue. I just think the question is how this is going to be spun. and how it'll be received by the voters. But it's not just the voters. I think there was an expectation, Dimitri,

when the president said to the people of Iran, help is on the way. And even he went so far as to say, look, we're going to get you to a point where you can rise up, like you're going to have to rise up. But you're going to have to change the regime. You're going to have to do it yourself. And I don't know that that opportunity ever presented itself.

And I think that's what a lot of, like people like myself, I thought if that's how this ends with a popular uprising that topples this, this terrible, gruesome regime, that will be, that will make it worth it. Well, the Iranian regime is probably the most tyrannical regime on the planet. And I would say that's the most disappointing aspect is that they now remain in place. And the millions of Persians of Iranians that had high hopes across the world, you know, the Persian community here in Toronto and in Canada, quite frankly, that marched in the streets peacefully and even had the posters of Donald Trump.

They were chanting Donald Trump's name because freedom, democracy and the rule of law was just a few days away has now vanished. I will like to translate this, though, in terms of what I think it means to Canada. is that Donald Trump is the guy who's going to cut his nose to spite his face and then claim a victory over it. So maybe, maybe that all the damage he's inflicting on the Canadian and American economy with this commercial trade war will end up in many ways him backing down and saying victory. I did all of this. It was great. And it means that free trade will start. But yeah, listen, let's dovetail off that, Max. If that's a, if this is almost a primer,

like a Rosetta Stone on translating some of the motivations and, and the movement of this president on certain issues, is there something that the Canadians can learn about this actual very real hot war and apply it to our trade war? Yeah, I think that's a really good observation and a really good point that Dimitri made, which is it kind of gives us a window into the extent to which Trump can hold to a plan and really endure economic pain. Because that's what was bringing him back to the table was it wasn't the lives lost, it wasn't the chaos in the Middle East. It was the price of gasoline and the impact that had on American businesses. And we can inflict a lot more pain in our own way if we want to in these trade negotiations.

So yeah, I think it's a reminder for us that we do have cards. we can play them. And if we hold our resolve and kind of look past the bullying and the bluster, we will probably end up in a very similar situation. You know, if you guys don't mind, I want to ask your opinion on something because something interesting was happening on Twitter over the weekend where there were people on both sides of the, again, the notion of booing the national anthem, the Canadians booing the American national anthem.

And I look, people can do what they want. My issue is not do you have the right to do it or not. I just, all I said was it's tacky. I think it's just tacky to boo someone's national anthem. If you have a problem with Donald Trump, I have a problem with Donald Trump. But booing the national anthem to me is something else. The amount of pushback I got, the amount of you're a Trump bootlicker. The amount of emotion that is being, that people are governed by,

where we should be rational about this is to me a little, it's distressing, Demetri. When you're governed by emotion, you're not going to lead to rational outcomes. And how do you see it? You're absolutely right. If you would have had this exact same conversation

with me a year and a half ago, Ben, I would have been part of the crowd that booed. And I wasn't booing. I wouldn't have been booing the American national anthem. I wouldn't have been booing the American people. I would have been booing the leader of the free world who was supposed to be our best friend, closest ally and most reliable neighbor.

You're absolutely right. A year and a half later, and that's because I was angry a year and a half ago. I'm not angry anymore. I think that emotions should not dictate actions. I think we have to be patient, strategically patient. And let's not forget the American people are still our best friends. They're still our most reliable partners. they're still our best neighbors.

So I agree, and I'm glad you raised this because I was on the other side of the fence about a year and a half ago because it was so unexpected. You know, really, you're going to make us the 51 state. Really, you're going to cripple your economy and ours because you're pretending there is a trade imbalance, which there isn't if you take away what we sell in energy.

Americans actually sell to us more than what we buy from them. Max, how do you see it? I'm still angry and I would be booing. So look, I agree with Dimitri that we need to be rational at the bargaining table. People at sporting events are not at the bargaining table. And I think it's important to send a message to Americans in ways that they can hear that they are making mistakes. They are not the good guys anymore.

And their neighbors, their friends, the people who have done them right for decades and decades are pissed off. And I think they need to hear that. I think it helps ground them in the reality of the choices they're making and the political circumstances that they're in. You know, this is not a one-off. They've done this twice. And they are damaging the livelihoods, you know, the real material livelihoods of tens of thousands of people on both sides of the border. If the worst that happens to them is they get booed, I say they got off light. And listen, I can appreciate that. But it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the pushback from anybody saying, hey, like, it's kind of not who we are.

We're not, we're not those people. And the reaction, the, the, the elbows up crowd can be very mean. And I don't understand it, especially when you say something like the symbols, like, I think it's, I mean, in normal circumstances, those same people would think it's tacky. But here it's justified. I was just, I was surprised with the pushback. It doesn't offend me.

You can say whatever you want about me. I was just really surprised by the, like how much, how, how, how angry they are and how they still govern by emotion when we know we've got to get into a practical solution. I mean, you know, Gordy Howe wasn't the nicest guy in the world. You know, he had his elbows up and was a pretty tough customer. I mean, I don't think Canadians are as nice as we get the reputation for. We're polite. We're not that nice.

And look, this is like, this is a. a generational kind of wound that has been opened up deliberately and for no real good reason by the Americans. And I think a lot of Canadians are going to feel it for more than just a few months. All right, well, listen, we are going to take a quick break. When we come back, we got lots of stories to get to, including there's a story about spying turtles.

And you're never going to guess what country they're from. That's coming up next on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and it's Monday. So welcome back to Max Fawson, Dmitri, this guys, thanks so much for sticking around. Pleasure. Max, I want to start with you because you are in the,

you're in the hearth of energy in this country. And so what does it say to you that there was a power auction in Ontario? And Ontario chose batteries over gas, awarding more capacity for batteries, new storage capacity across First Nations partner projects. And they were all selected. The batteries were selected over. gas, they out competed them. What does that say to you?

I mean, it tells me that the game is changing a lot faster than maybe some folks want to acknowledge. You know, this is in Ontario, you know, a conservative provincial government. The auction was set up in ways to favor gas. It rewarded characteristics that gas has in terms of dispatchability and always on service. And solar and storage and wind in storage still won. So again, this is not for the entire, you know, this is not for 24-7. power. This is for peaking power. But that is where renewables are going to start carving into gas first. You're already seeing it in Australia. You're seeing it in Europe.

You see it in almost every major market that renewables and storage are just cheaper. And cheaper electricity is going to be a big deal going forward. Well, you said that battery prices have collapsed globally dropping more than 90% in a decade. And so that made the bids for batteries come in 36% cheaper than Ontario's previous storage procurements. And so, yeah, I mean, I can't fault Max's assessment here, Dimitri. I can't fault it either, but let's be straight. Batteries don't make electricity. Yeah. They keep it. You still need nuclear. Hydro and natural gas to keep the lights on. So anybody who tells you batteries replace all of that is selling something that you shouldn't be

buying. So yes, the government won the competition. Let's see execution. Yeah. Let's see implementation. And what do batteries need? Critical minerals. And so we actually are our energy needs are constantly increasing, but are we finding those new sources of energy production? Are we getting that energy east, for example, of oil and gas coming from Alberta to eastern Canada? Are we maximizing not only extraction of our natural resources, but also transformation here in Canada, because that's where the added value is. And look, anybody who takes issue with the idea that,

oh, there's no business case for natural gas, for example, just remember the image of the tanker from Australia that came over, came down underneath South America all the way back up to our eastern coast because we were buying natural gas from them. But I do appreciate, because I want to live in a world where all of these energy sources or these components play their role. And if we're living in a world where, as Max said, they are there to help in peak energy situations.

And I'm willing to live in a world where that stuff changes ultimately. But in a snapshot of where we are today, the reality is if you support batteries, then you also have to support the extraction of the critical minimum. that allow us to build our own batteries. Max? Sure do. Yeah. Sure do. No, 100%. I mean, you know, and that's another opportunity for Canada in this transition. But, you know, to the business case about East Coast LNG, let's be clear, one tanker showing up at one point does not a business case make. There's still no business case for LNG from Alberta shipping off the East Coast. I can go up and down on the numbers here. And it's, you know, I've written columns about this,

but the math doesn't math. And if it mathed, it would be happening, under this prime minister, that's for sure. Okay, we got to talk about what happened last week with the Somali referee that David E. B. thought was a refugee and created an entire backstory for him about it. And look, he was not let into the United States to fulfill his dream of refereeing a World Cup. But it was the speed with which the mayor of Toronto, I believe the leader of the opposition in Ontario, and the premier of British Columbia, all three progressively left politicians,

jumped on this like a fat kid on cake without having any facts to back up their. Donald Trump decision bad, therefore this is my position over here. And it was a, I think, a dangerously reflexive or an eye-opening sort of look at what motivates a certain type of politician. We'll start with you, Dimitri.

Well, Ben, why wasn't he let in? Yeah. Well, he wasn't let in because they found some social media posts of his that made him very, suggested he was very friendly to the al-Shabaab terrorist group, the al-Shabaab terrorist group, more or less confirmed that by coming out in support of him. And I'll say one last thing. We tell kids, don't post things on social media that could get you in trouble and not get you a job. We tell them, we take this very seriously.

This to me feels like the same thing. I would say so. Somebody who is favorable and supportive of a terrorist organization does not have the right to come into our country. We already have enough of those anyway. We keep welcoming them and we roll out the red carpet. Look at what happens again with FIFA, a member of the Iranian national team who had links to the IRGCC.

So, so, you know, sorry, sir, you're not welcome here. Yeah. Max, is, am I being too hard on these politicians or was this just irresponsible? I think it was just irresponsible of them. No, I think you're being appropriately hard. The idea, you know, the idea that like, you know, we just instantly assume he's a refugee because he's, he's, you know, of a different background. No, the guy, you know, the guy lives in Somalia.

He's very well respected there. He's, you know, apparently the best referee in Africa. He's refereed some of the biggest FIFA matches in African history. I think he should be allowed to come and referee a match in the United States. I don't particularly trust the Trump administration's assessment of these sorts of things. Their track record here is not stellar, to say the least. But, you know, I think as politicians, you have to avoid letting events sort of feed your preexisting biases. And, you know, that goes the same for columnists.

It goes the same for people on all sides of the spectrum. but to your point, look at the facts of the case for what they are. Don't immediately assume that because something looks a certain way, it has to be a certain way. All right. So this last question, it's a quirky one. China is accusing other countries of leveraging technology in a way I'd never heard possible to essentially spy on them, especially in submarine areas by outfitting turtles with technology to spy on their submarines. Now, in the immortal words of the Bard Shaggy, it wasn't me.

It couldn't have been Canada. I doubt we have the money to pay our actual spies. So I don't think we're going to be doing something like this. This is, you were, Dimitri, you were in, you know, you were in the heart of like the decision-making matrix back in the day. Did ideas like this ever get floated to the prime minister? Like, hey, we got this idea.

We could outfit some turtles with some technology. We could learn a lot about our enemies. So I'm going to disappoint you, Ben. Many times the security briefings that I got, and I had the highest security clearance, same as the one the prime minister had. And I sometimes received security briefings. You know, they walk into your office with this folder

that writes top secrets for your eyes only. They sit down in a very serious way in front of you. They give you a piece of. paper you read it and then they take it back and oftentimes I would be reading that piece of paper and then I would ask but I saw this on CNN yesterday I am I swear to you I am not kidding kidding so thank God we're part of the five eyes yeah where countries like the UK the US New Zealand and Australia actually have intelligence services that don't need to watch CNN or BBC in order to provide security briefings. And what I did find at the time is that sometimes our partners

are reluctant to provide us with sensitive information because on the other side, we leak too much. Yeah. Yeah. So no, we did not have the idea of having Donatello, Raphael, and Michelangelo and Leonardo, and then Master Splinter guide them all into the ocean so we can spy on the Chinese. We relied on CNN and BBC. Max, a very quick answer. I need a yes or no from me. Do you want to live in a world where spy turtles are a real thing. Totally. And also spy Canadian geese and spy beavers. There we can. Guys, thank you so much. I really appreciate you on this Monday. Have a great week. Cheers.

All right. And we want to bid adieu to our friends, Dimitri and Max, two of the best in the business at analyzing politics in Canada. But hold on. It's not fair well. It's see you later. With far less political news out there on the Monday panel, it's we're taking a hiatus. So we will see you guys soon. Since the dawn of time, humanity has been at war. It has shaped the world around us. And if it somehow feels like we've been here before, it's because we have. I'm David Boris. I'm a military historian, and on my new podcast, Hostile History, I take us inside history's most defining wars and rebellions. From Genghis Khan to the war in Iran, find out how the past can explain the present. Search for and follow hostile history on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, or wherever you find

your favorite podcasts.