The Ben Mulroney Show - Ben discusses how The dairy monopoly is holding Canada hostage

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Guests and Topics: -How The dairy monopoly is holding Canada hostage with Guest: Sylvain Charlebois, Canadian Researcher and Professor specializing in the Food Industry If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Yesterday on the show, we talked about a position that International Trade Minister Mary Ing took, which I found quite perplexing. She said that in her negotiations with Donald Trump, our negotiations with Donald Trump, supply management of our dairy industry would be off the table. And I found that perplexing for a number of reasons. And I could go on and on with you right now, but I would rather bring in one of the authorities in this country on agricultural and food policy Sylvain Charlebois. Sylvain, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Oh, thank you, Ben.

So give our listeners a primer on what supply management is. Okay, so there are several levels to supply management. So the first one that we often hear is the federal level. So the feds, well, namely, and we should only talk about dairy because it gets complicated if we talk about feathers and eggs. Poultry is also supply managed, but those sectors are way more competitive. So let's talk about dairy, which is 80% of supply management. So the Canadian Dairy Commission is charged with the tax of setting fair prices for farmers.

So they survey farmers every year. They understand the cost to produce milk and butter fat, and that's how we pay, we compensate farmers in Canada. We also have tariffs on imports and this is the one thing that Mr. Trump actually points at a lot. So if you want to import say butter from the United States to Canada, there is a 320% tariff like right now. Wait, hold on. Did you say 320% tariff? 320, that's right. It varies between 250 to 320.

So I mean, listen, I grew up in in a in a household with Brian Mulrooney, who believed that if Canadian if Canadians truly believe that we are great at what we do, then our products should be able to stand on their own, hence free trade. What are we afraid of with our dairy industry that we need to protect it to the tune of a 320% markup on on competition coming from the states. Well, it's when you look at the other level of supply matter, things get interesting. So provinces are responsible for quotas. And that's where it gets tricky.

So then I've been talking to two politicians for 25 years about this. I've been banging on this interprovincial barrier drum for twenty five years and i said that sit down with with mp even explain to them how you could create a free-flowing open market in canada and they have to address the issue of provincial boards uh... provinces are responsible to set quotas and that gives them a lot of our that gives dairy farmers in each province

particularly particularly in québec uh... a lot of power uh... to control production and and and get back particularly that i mean over the years we've seen this transfer of quotas uh... over to central canada and québec and ontario because processing actually went there. And that's why these two provinces are quite powerful. And so as soon as MPs understand that they have to tackle supply management,

they just walk away. And that's why we've been dealing with this problem for many, many years. Yeah, and look, I don't need you to speculate on the politics of this, so that's my job, but my suspect that one of the reasons that the Liberal government has said right off the jump that supply management in dairy is off the table, even though Donald Trump brought it up, specifically brought it up,

and there seems to be a movement or a moment in Canada where we're open to tearing down these inter-provincial trade barriers. The fact that they're doing that, I think politics is playing into their calculus. I think they're looking down the barrel at a very bad election coming up, but maybe, just maybe, they can save a few seats in Quebec. And if they stand up for supply management, then maybe that'll be the rump that allows them to continue as official opposition in the House of Commons.

I have, yeah. But then it's not just the liberals. All parties are afraid. I mean, we're talking about the dairy farmers of Canada, one of the strongest, most powerful lobby groups in Canada. I mean, one politician, I won't name you which one, the person asked me, if you were God looking upon Canada, how would you actually deal with this problem? There are two solutions, Ben. One, you write up a check of $32 billion and you dismantle supply measures. You buy all the quotas back.

That's one solution. The other solution is that you harmonize the quota system federally. So you would allow, say for example, investors in Ontario to buy quotas in Quebec and vice versa. Okay? But if you do that, Quebec farmers will know exactly what's going to happen to their number one asset, quotas. It would be devalued. Basically, the value of quotas in Quebec would probably go down to zero because you would

see Ontario farmers and their richer and larger buy all the quotas in Quebec would probably go down to zero because you would see Ontario farmers and they're richer and larger by all the quarters in Quebec and all that process that would be transferred to Ontario. So there's there's zero appetite to harmonize the core system federally. But let's just imagine a world where there was that appetite. How long do you estimate that this country would go through some pretty tough growing pains before we adapted to a new fair trade open market model that could allow that would that would make our

friends south of the border happy? I think we need we need a rainmaker that will force Canada to reform supply management. And I actually trying to believe that that rainmaker is Donald Trump. He's the one, he's the only one who has the power to push Ottawa to make a commitment to reform supply management. And actually, I think that's what politicians are just waiting for. They're waiting for that king man, that person in Washington to say, you know, Canada, get your act together, we need to get rid of it or else we're going to impose tariffs. And that's going

to move the needle. This event I wanted to move on to something that you tweeted just a little while ago, you said breaking a new survey suggests when grocery shopping 90% of Canadians would switch to a Canadian brand where possible, while 70% would buy products from countries other than the US, such as Europe or Japan. The survey 90% of Canadians would switch to a Canadian brand where possible, while 70% would buy products from countries other than the US, such as Europe or Japan. The survey also suggests 28% would no longer shop at Amazon and 40% said they would not eat

at US-based restaurant chains. Now, I think that's a lovely sentiment. I think if put into, if forced to put that into practice, I don't know that those numbers would hold up. I know, I know. And we do surveys to as a lab. And of course, you have to take these results with a grain of salt. However, I mean, 90% is quite a lot. I mean, let's say let's settle for half. That's still a lot. Oh, yeah. So that you can feel I mean, I'm I can feel that there's a strong, I was actually

just in Mexico earlier this weekend and meeting with the farmers there and the sentiment is completely different there. Here it's very nationalistic. There's this sense of betrayal. People want to buy Canada. There, Canada is reacting exactly how Mexico reacted in 2017 when Trump decided to ask Mexico to pay for the wall. It's exactly the same thing. But you know, it's interesting and you got to drill down a little bit because there's, you have to ask yourself, to what end?

Why would you buy Canadian? And if the goal is to preserve Canadian jobs, then you don't necessarily have to find an owned and operated Canadian business. It can be an international business that hires and produces food in Canada, because you want to help those jobs. So it's there there is there's nuance to this or there should be nuance to this. Absolutely. It's confusing for a lot of people. I've been spending all week trying to educate the people. But here but here's the thing, I'm in the business of education myself.

And to be honest, whenever there's a boycott, I always question the purpose. And if you're seeing more consumers looking at where their food is coming from, this can not be a bad thing. No, that's a good thing, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. People are looking at labels,

they're understanding their food systems, and it can't be a bad thing. No, that's a good thing. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. People are looking at labels, they're understanding their food systems, and it can't be a bad thing, really. It doesn't matter what the outcome is. I don't care, really. All what I'm seeing right now are Canadians looking at labels, understanding how the food industry works, and that's always a good thing. No, you're absolutely right.

And they're not just looking at the price, but they're looking at the impact of their purchase, right? And so I think that's absolutely a good thing. The notion that 40% of people, sorry, 28% of people just stop using Amazon, that's a pipe dream. Come on, that's a pipe dream. I think there's 28% more Amazon trucks

on my street like right now. Exactly, exactly. Hey, food professor, Sida Charleboix, thank you so much. Always love talking to you on the Ben Mulroney Show. Take care, Ben. A lot of news happening within our own borders. We're not necessarily talking directly about Trump. We're talking tangentially about Trump. And Canadians have been asked, who do they feel is the leader best positioned to negotiate with Donald Trump. And 40% of people polled, 40% of people polled said Mark Carney.

26% said Pierre Poliev and then the rest was no difference, unsure, and Christia and Karina. So Mark Carney at 40%. And look, I don't know what to tell you about that. He's got a great resume. He's been the head of the Bank of Canada, head of the Bank of England. He's been the head of Brookfield. He's pulled a lot of strings around the world.

He knows a lot of people. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about. And he's a very intelligent guy and by all accounts a very nice guy. But if you're one of these people who believes that he's the right guy, you and I have a fundamental disagreement over what that means. And what I'd like to do is, where is that, where's the audio that we had here?

You know, at one point, we've got that later on the show, but at one point, a couple of days ago, Mark Carney stood in front of a microphone and demeaned the American people, essentially saying that they are currently experiencing a fever. But that's okay, because in Canada, we are going to hold true to essentially identity politics and wokeism.

They are having a fever dream war against wokeism, but that's not going to happen here. Now that, to me, is akin to Justin Trudeau standing in front of a microphone in the days after Donald Trump won his mandate and insulted the American people, shamed them for not electing Kamala Harris. It's the same thing. You're essentially calling the Americans idiots. They're not being governed by rational thought,

they're being governed by their emotional animalistic side. Those are the people who voted for Donald Trump. Those are the people who are tearing down DEI and everything that they voted for is wrong. So, and if you think Donald Trump's not seeing that, if you think that's not getting back to him, then I can't help you. Because that's exactly how he consumes information.

His people are listening to everything and they are feeding him everything. So before he's ever met Mark Carney, this is what Mark Carney thinks about him and the people who voted for him and the direction of his country. You think that's the guy that we want opposite him? Because by the way, I'm not suggesting that the right way to negotiate with him is to

flatter him. On the contrary, I look at what Pierre Poliev is doing. And Pierre Poliev is putting forth a strong, independent vision of Canada, pushing back against Donald Trump, saying, your aggression towards us will not stand. We want to work with you and we want to build the strongest version of our country so that we can be a strong ally to you. The best leaders are the ones who don't view the problem as us versus you or us versus them, but it's the both of us against the problem.

And Pierre Poliev is suggesting that the two of us can work the problem. Mark Carney is trying to divide and create a divide between us and them. So no, I do not think he is the right person. create a divide between us and them. So no, I do not think he is the right person. 40% of you do. And if you believe that the voter is never wrong, then you also believe that we get the government we deserve. And if you, over the course of three weeks, four weeks, are a type of person who has gleefully jumped back in and thrown in

with the people who got us into the mess that we're in today. I can't help you. I can't help you. Justin Trudeau is winding down his time in office, and here's what he said about his perspective over the next few weeks. I have to admit, my friends, I'm a little bit emotional tonight. about his perspective over the next few weeks. things you want to do and the things that you don't want to do. I wish that clip had continued because I would love to know what the hell he's talking about. Ruthless. I mean, I know, Ruthless about things you don't want to do. You do not want to send us into an election and you are willing to put party over country to ensure that you are willing to maintain the prorogation of parliament when the parliamentarians

whose job it is to voice the concerns of their people should be done in the House of Commons during this time of crisis. You are being ruthless about these anti-democratic instincts of yours. And clearly there is no shame in your game, Mr. Prime Minister, because you have no problem allowing this threat to fester while you allow your friend Mark Carney to assume the mantle of leadership, not just of your party, but of the country. This is a wholly anti-democratic process, wholly democratic, anti-democratic exercise, and is happening entirely because our prime minister wants it to be. And some of you, 40% of you, want to reward the guy who's

going to pick up the baton from his friend when we should be in an election campaign, or at the very least, we should be debating these very serious issues in the one place that they should be debated, not on social media, but in the House of Commons. But where, by the way, these MPs draw a salary to do just that. They all want to be there, or at least certain ones want to be there. They're chomping at the bit to get there so that they can put forth a vision of what we should be doing next. But that can't happen because the liberals need to get their house in order first. And my head is kind of spinning because as I understood it, one of the reasons that we avoided the tariffs from Donald Trump was because we agreed to put 10,000 troops on our border, to always have eyes on our border. I thought that was part of the deal unless I misread it, unless I misunderstood it. But Public Safety Minister David McGinty is saying that that's

Pierre Poliev's idea, and he's dismissing it out of hand. Why should the longest undefended border in the world, which we pride ourselves on having, 400,000 people a day cross the border back and forth, billions of dollars of trade back and forth, jobs at stake. I don't understand why somebody can sort of willy-nilly throw out a suggestion that the entire Canadian border should be militarized. I don't think that's predicated on fact or evidence. We have incredibly strong teams, a strong border which is getting stronger. The RCMP, the CBSA, conservation officers, indigenous police,

provincial police forces, municipal police forces are cooperating. I got whiplash. I thought this was put to bed. I thought that was part of the deal. The Mexicans put 10,000 troops on their border. I think they activated their national guard. We have no such thing here. So we got to dip into the military. It'll give our military something to do, because it's not like we can send them to the other side of the world. But I thought this was put to bed. So again, I don't know. And I might be missing something. If I'm getting it wrong, give us a call on our opinion line

and tell me how wrong I am. And I'm more than willing to correct the record as I saw it. But to me, this makes no sense. And by the way, putting soldiers on the border, to me, does not rise to the level of militarizing our border. It would in no way slow down the goods going across the border. It would in no way slow down the people going across the border. It would simply be a sign that our undefended border is now defended.

Daniel Blanchard is no ordinary thief. His heists are ingenious. His escapes defy belief. And when he sees the dazzling diamond CC Star, he'll risk everything to steal it. His exploits set off an intercontinental manhunt. But how long can CC Star stay lucky for Daniel? I'm Seren Jones, and this is a most audacious heist.

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.