The Ben Mulroney Show - Ben dishes on Mark Carney's campaign launch

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -Ben dishes on Mark Carney's launch and Pierre Poilievre's speech -Here’s why a developer sees a future in renting with Guest: Adrian Rocca, CEO & Founder of Fitzrovia -Drones will one day become one of the single largest Industries in Canada Guest: Shaun Ghafari, Dean of Engineering at Humber Polytechnic Guest: Francis Syms, Associate Dean in the Faculty of Applied Sciences & Technology at Humber Polytechnic If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canada. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. Some news that doesn't surprise anyone is that Mark Carney, the former central banker and former advisor to Justin Trudeau, has thrown his hat into the ring to succeed Justin Trudeau as the next liberal leader

and indeed the next prime minister. He did so in his former home of Alberta. That's where he started his life, cut his teeth, played hockey, went to school, before making his mark on the world. And he had a lot to say on a lot of issues. He said it's no time for politics as usual. And here's what he had to say on the economy. They too often see government as the solution to every problem with a reflex to spend and subsidize that just treats the

symptoms of the problems, but doesn't cure the disease. We can't redistribute what we don't have. And we can't support the vulnerable in our society or defend this great country if we have a weak economy. And I'm here to build the strongest economy for all Canadians. That does not sound like the Liberal Party of the past nine years. If his goal was to sound different, then that certainly does sound different. And, you know, I'm of two minds of this launch.

I think it lacked any sizzle. I thought it was quiet. I thought it was more bund. But I do subscribe to what Robin ur back of the Globe and Mail just wrote. She said his official launch, however, was dull and uninspired and gave credence to the opinion that he might have all the flair of an aged wall covering after all in reference to Michael Ignatius actually, but he nevertheless is the important part but he nevertheless conveyed an air of maturity that has been decidedly

absent in the leader he seeks to replace. On that front, I actually I co signed that he he sounds like an adult in the room. The issue, however, could be that Canadians are tired and angry and upset, not just with the messenger, Justin Trudeau, but with the message that we have been force fed for nine years. And so if he comes across as well spoken, and well traveled and erudite, and, and is and wants to lead this party, then there

might be a disconnect in in voters, potential liberal voters, and and this this messenger. And they'll say, how can someone so smart, so well read with such a resume, and endorse anything that we've been living for the past few years. And if that and that disconnect could then translate into what the what the what the Tories are pushing, which is that he's he's untethered from our reality, from the reality of regular, ordinary, everyday Canadians. So that's a danger that I see. Reporters asked

Mark Carney to clarify his claims that he is a quote unquote outsider. As you said this week that you're an outsider, but you've been offering the liberal support advice for years. How can you explain how you're any different? Oh, well, there's a pretty big difference between being a member of the cabinet, a member of the caucus, the prime minister himself, and being someone who occasionally their advice is asked. Look, the prime minister of the United Kingdom, the president of France, other leaders ask for my advice from time to time.

I've provided advice to this government. I'm not going to reveal which advice has been followed and which hasn't. And the vast, vast majority of the decisions that the government has taken over the years, I found out when they were announced. Trying to cast himself as an outsider is not gonna work. It's not gonna work.

I think that's baked in already. I think people believe that he is an insider's insider. And we spoke about it on the show yesterday. He should probably lean into that and say, no, I mean, he could probably come up with a different name. He doesn't have to call himself an insider, but he knows how the game is played. He's played it at the highest levels

and try to turn that to his advantage. I don't know how successful it will be, but I know in my core that calling himself an outsider will fail. It will absolutely fail. The Tories have already tagged him as such and I don't believe that he can escape that. But there was a lot more that was talked about. Mark Carney took a shot at not only Pierre Poliev, but a subtle dig at Premier Daniel Smith. In these times, sending Pierre Poliev to negotiate with Donald Trump is the worst possible idea. I can think of one other politician I might not have sent.

I mean that's just came to me in the last 24 hours. That's nervous laughter right there. Danielle Smith is wildly popular in her home province. I struggle to understand the logic there. province. I'm, I struggle to understand the logic there. antagonizing one of the most popular politicians in Alberta at a time at a time where and and she has the ear of the prior of the president. I don't know that Mark Carney's ever talked to Donald Trump. That I don't get that one. If somebody can explain to me how that makes sense as you're looking to curry favor with Alberta,

I'm at a loss. So let's look at the other side of the coin. He called out Pierre Poliev. Let's hear what Pierre Poliev had to say because he took aim at Justin Trudeau. So let's listen. The liberals have forced Canadians to sell 100% of our oil and gas to the Americans at discount prices,

which has put us in this position of weakness. It'd be nice if we had pipelines and export terminals that could take our energy to Asia and Europe without going through the United States. But of course, the economic radicals of Trudeau, Freeland and Carney blocked those projects because of their radical ideology and they have made us more and more dependent on President Trump. And my approach will be exactly the opposite.

I will quickly approve energy projects to send our energy to the rest of the world without relying on Americans. And we will make our country more self-reliant and independent. I will also unite our country. The Liberals are trying to divide one province against another, Canadian against Canadian, right at our moment of maximum vulnerability.

This is because we do not have a functional federal government. So we have effectively 10 different foreign affairs ministers, one from each province trying to fight separately. Tell me where he's wrong. Point to one thing he says that isn't accurate. The premier's running down Amaralago in the hopes of staving off tariffs in their home jurisdiction because we don't have a functional government. He's absolutely right. We've got 11 foreign ministers. He's 100% right. What a great way of framing it.

And I think he probably heard Mark Carney say that he shouldn't be negotiating against Donald Trump. Here's what Pierre Poliev said directly to Donald Trump yesterday. My message to President Trump is this, Canada will never be the 51st state and not only that. The free ride is over the era of liberal tax increases and anti development policies that have driven a half trillion dollars of

our money south of the border is over. I will be cutting taxes, removing red tape and unleashing free enterprise to bring home hundreds of billions of dollars of production and paychecks to this country. That message is going to resonate with a lot of people, a lot of people, not just a person like myself, a lot of people listening. We talk about the housing crisis, the affordability crisis, anytime it rears its head on this show.

These are important issues to everyone in the city of Toronto and indeed across the country. And our next guest is trying to do something to address that problem. Please welcome to the show Adrian Roca. He is the CEO of Fitzrovia, which is a purpose built rental company. Well, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Ben. So Adrian, like, so you're trying to change the conversation around the idea of renting as a lifestyle. You know, the idea of home ownership

as part of the Canadian promise is it's baked into our DNA. We we hear the stories about it's the conversation is always the same. Canadians can't afford to buy a home, they can't get into the housing market, they can't build equity. And if you can't build equity, you can't build the life that you want, you don't have control over your life. And if you're renting, you're just giving money to somebody else for the rest of your life. How are you trying to change that conversation?

Yeah, firstly, I'm a proud, long term renter, you know, when I was living in Europe, and since I moved back in 2013, we're trying to change the conversation around lending by changing the profile of what it means to be a rental building. So we really invest heavily in the amenity package, the customer experience, all of our onsite staff get trained by Disney and the Ritz Carlton. We really try to prioritize our resident experience first because we think the rest of the business will take care of itself if it could simply do

that. We also have a bias to larger, more livable suites, we invest heavily in the quality, the materials, the specifications that we put into our buildings, it looks and feels vastly different than what you typically see in the condo market. And you know, you bring up a really interesting point, because yesterday on the show, we were talking about the cratering of the condo market. And one of the reasons is they built all these tiny condos with

one bedroom or, or, or, you know, at most two, but probably just one. And, and people just don't want that. And that only caters to a very specific type of person. And so nobody wants what's on the market. So if you're coming into the into the market with two and three and sometimes four bedroom apartments, then it's almost like the the, you know, you're meeting the moment you're the need is there and you're coming with a rental option that people want that they can't get

anywhere else or certainly can't get in the condo market. We feel really strongly about that point. So about 70 to 75% of new build condo product is about is a studio or one bed. Even the two beds that were being created are very small, that's 650 to 675 square feet. That same two bed would be about 820 to 840 square feet. So significantly larger than one of our buildings. You also typically did not see many three builds, three bedrooms built in the market, condo or rental, and we've actually made a big call across the board. We have four very large multi tower master

plans, where between 20 and 30% of the units are actually three bedrooms. Who's your ideal renter? So really depends on the neighborhood, but we really target young families and downsizes, we think those two segments of the market have been alienated, whether it's it's the for sale market or other purposeful rental that's been created. And so everything around those two segments of the

market from the size of the suites and specifications in the suite, but also the lifestyle management that wraps around our offering really caters to those two segments of the market. We also have our own school that caters to young families. So we if you're going to cater young families, schools are at their capacity, we really have to figure out the on site school solution. And so we came up with what's called the Boomsbury Academy that subsidized tuition

just for residents. Yeah, see, you know, it's interesting that you you've identified this because I saw this as a problem. Years ago in Toronto, when they were building all these one and two bedroom condos at most two bedrooms, I thought, you know what, like, what if you're a family, you want to live downtown, you don't want to own a car. And you know, you're looking to grow your family, you're going to get you're going to be stuck in

choosing between all right, do I do I want to have another kid or do I have to move to the suburbs. And that seems like such a stark choice. And then on top of that, I thought, geez, you got hundreds, if not 1000s of people who are going to be descending onto a city block. Some of these people are gonna have kids and are going to need to go to school. And I don't see them building a whole lot of schools in this city. And that was a problem from like 20 years ago. And so it's interesting that you've identified it and

you're actually taking steps to solve the problem. Yeah, it goes beyond school. Like we really spent a lot of time understanding who you know, our residents going to be and, and ultimately, how do we make their living experience a better one. So the other element is we have a health care partnership at Cleveland Clinic. And so if any of our residents are feeling sick, they go down to the Cleveland Clinic room, there's on site diagnostic equipment,

there's cameras that look down their throat, they can write them a virtual prescription. So they never have to go to walk and clinic again. We also think that is also a big issue, you know, civic issue that we have in our city. So you've got three towers that are almost all nearing completion, just steps from Yorkdale shopping center, I've been following the trend of sort of developing these neighborhoods around shopping malls. When did you identify that that was going to

be an opportunity? About a decade ago, you know, you have an incredible anchor, I argue probably the number one retail asset in the country, right across the street New Yorkdale Mall and you know we think that's a that's an amazing anchor. Also say from a transport perspective you got the TTC station right there you got really good access to the 401 and the Allen Road obviously Dufferin's a main thoroughfare as well so from a kind of real estate 101 it really checks a lot of boxes for us and so we wanted to densify there, we bought a

fully zoned site that was ready to go, it allowed us to move really quickly through design development. And so we are at the verge of occupying the first building, which is the black building, the southernmost building, mark first, and then the other two red buildings will fully complete at the end of the summer. And I guess others are following your lead, because I heard that all that those that parking lot space that's at the north,

that's on the north side of the mall is going to be turned into condos as well condos or some sort of apartment complex. Yeah, I think the the overall kind of residential masterplan, you know, we're not owners, so we don't participate, you know, we'll, I don't think it's an immediate kickoff on the new development there. But it's very much a thematic, you know, concept for lots of institutional investors where they're looking to densify existing shopping centers that

they own. But that's going to change that's going to change the very nature of the of the mall itself to like what it offers and how it how it's viewed by the community. I mean, it's not going to be if all of a sudden you have 10 or 15,000 people living within walking distance of a mall like Yorkdale, they're going to want different things from that mall.

Very much so it very much turns into the town center. So you know, you know, the, you know, the type of retail that drives off that will certainly evolve over time. And it also created a halo effect, you know, with the existing retailers that are in those malls. Adrian, what's next for Fitzrovia? So we have four towers that will be completing early 2026 at young and sir at Bloor and Dufferin. We're really excited about that master plan. And then we have another three towers at Danforth and Main that will complete at the end of 2026. We want to get into assisted

living, independent living, retirement at some point. We've expanded into Montreal. We have four towers there and we'd love to be in Western Canada, Calgary, Edmonton or Vancouver in the next three to four years. Adrian Rocha, the founder and CEO of Fitzrovia. Thank you so much for sharing your vision for what it means to live in a city like Toronto. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Ben. It's been said that in order to live an interesting life, you

should learn at least one new thing every single day. And when I got to work today and opened up our document that lays out what we're going to do today, I read that drones will one day become one of the single largest industries in Canada. The drone industry is growing rapidly and is expected to be worth 96 billion with a B by 2026. I honestly had no clue. I had no clue. So I'm so excited to drill down into what this means for the workforce in Canada types of drones and how we're going to be arming young kids today to take advantage of this opportunity

moving forward. So let's say hello to Sean Gaffari, Dean of Engineering at Humber Polytechnic and Francis Sims, Associate Dean in the Faculty of Applied Sciences and Technology at Humber Polytechnic. Sean Sims, Associate Dean in the Faculty of Applied Sciences and Technology at Humber Polytechnic. Sean and Francis, thank you so much for being here. Our pleasure. Good morning. Okay, so let's, let's start with the basics. Nine. I'm shocked

at that $96 billion number. Sean, where's that coming from? Where's this growth going to be coming from? Sean, where's that coming from? Where's this growth gonna be coming from? The growth is coming from the vast majority of the different applications that drone can take care of that because of their high mobility and when it is going to be combined

with the precision of the robotics, it can do different things. So from the application of the robotics, it can do different things. So from the application of the of the rescue to the to the delivery that the parts and even reaching to the remote communities. Yeah, like I always when I think drones, I think warfare. That's where my my mind automatically goes. And we've we see it in real time in the war in Ukraine, that a lot of people believe that Ukraine would not be acquitting itself as well in this war of

aggression, were it not for drone technology. But I'm now reading about the possibility of using in firefighting and medical supply delivery. Sean, this is a this is, I think we're so we're barely scratching the surface as to, oh, Francis, I'm sorry, Francis, we were barely scratching the surface on what we can be doing with these things. In fact, there was a community in BC that piloted this beyond visual line of sight application for delivery of medical

supplies. This is a First Nations, to remote communities. So you can imagine somebody who needs diabetes drug, that's living in a rural area, and can't make it in right into them the main community, a drone could potentially deliver that medication now, right? So that that's potentially a game changer for those types of situations. The Yeah, this is my mind is getting blown with every with every word that's coming out of your mouths.

Sean, so the industry is there. It's ripe for the picking. What is Humber doing to prepare students to take advantage? Great question. Humber Polytechnic, with collaboration with the other universities, they have a very unique space for doing the research and training of the students, how to fly the drones, and more importantly, how they can combine

with the different type of the technologies and using them in the different applications. So students in this new lab is going to be held in our new facility, the extended facility of the skill trades. And students are involved both in the research and training of that. Francis, I think all of us shook our heads in disappointment when during the those vital days of fighting the California wildfires, one of the Canadian water bombers that was so vital to that fight was grounded because it collided with a drone.

And we have a lot of people believe that that drone was out there trying to collect social media video of the fires. And I can absolutely see a scenario where we start using these drones in in many different ways that we start leaning on and taking advantage of and they become vital to how we go about our lives. But I could see I could absolutely see a city council like Ottawa or Toronto or Vancouver, slowing these things down out of fear and out of out of bureaucratic tendency and habit to study them and to and to just present roadblocks where innovation and

bold thinking is required. Yeah, I think that Transport Canada owns the regulations around this, right? And what they've done this, this month is they've made an announcement that they're going to open up those regulations even further up until now. What you could do is, you know, you could basically fly a drone. If it was under 250, uh, kilograms, you could go, if you look at best buy, you can see tons of them are like 249 kilograms. You can buy them, operate them with some certain conditions. Anything more than that, you needed some sort of pilot's license. But the problem in Canada was that you were not allowed to fly it without line of sight. So you and there

are other restrictions as well. The new rules that they're introducing from Transport Canada is that in certain areas like like rural communities or areas that are safe, you can potentially fly it and leverage things like AI now, right, to do that. And you can imagine in Toronto with, you know, everybody loves Toronto traffic, joking, but you can imagine a situation where you're doing an organ, you know,

some medical transfer, like an organ that has to be transplanted from one hospital to another hospital. Well, it could take an hour to drive that distance, but in this new scenario, you could pick it up on the top of one of the hospitals and deliver to another hospital in about 15 minutes. So, so that's the kind of, those are the kinds of things that I think will drive this change. And I'm assuming cities like Toronto, Vancouver,

all those cities are going to want to adopt it because it's going to actually make the lives of people better. But there are risks. And that's, you know, that's what people are worried about, right? risks of collision, like we saw in the in the US with that with that drone and that airplane that was delivering water to the fires. But that's just the process that we have to work through. Well, yeah, I think I think cities in Canada have to have to be bold, and we have to turn ourselves into sort of a

willingness to be a real world lab for some of these in the way that cities like Austin and San Francisco have put that has position position themselves in the world of driverless cars. 100% and I think the lab that my colleague here Sean is building up here at the North Campus at Humber is transformative because what we're building is this large facility that's very closely tied to our skills trade, education, and also to the engineering disciplines.

So we're building this facility that marries both the hands-on and the actual design together. And Sean is providing that facility to many other universities here in Ontario. So it really provides an opportunity for us to lead, right? And how, how we design and develop these tools. Well, that was going to be my next question. Are a lot of the drone companies that are up and coming? Are any of them

Canadian based or Canadian born? I can answer that. Yes, we have a number of the Canadian born I can answer that. Yes, we have a number of the Canadian-born drone companies which they fabricate and manufacture drones for the specific application such as agriculture, such as surveying. This new lab is going to help more industries to come and test their technology, their applications, and see that this new layer of the technology, such as AI as Francis mentioned, cyber security and 5G communication, how these emerging technologies are going to combine with each other to leverage the application of that. So yes, there are companies and the goal of this lab is to engage with these companies to increase and leverage the industry with the new technologies

and also having them for the other application as well. Francis, lastly, I was so impressed with a drone company out of Alberta that I interviewed the CEO of a few years ago called flash forest that uses drone technology to literally shoot saplings into the ground to reforest at a rapid rate. And so when I was thinking about that when I was reading about how drones could revolutionize the agricultural

sector, 100% you think about these farmers that are struggling even more so now with with pending tariffs to compete globally? And technology like drones means that they're not necessarily going through the fields themselves to check on the status of what's happening. They have tools that they can use. And these tools are not that expensive, you know, maybe to buy a drone that would work in a field, you can imagine a scenario in a year or two where it's a hundred bucks, right? And those things are like standard, everybody has them.

And maybe eventually they work with the new Starlink technology that we talked about a little while ago, right? Where instead of communicating with Wi-Fi, they're communicating directly to the satellites. So you see the significant growth. Sean and Francis, I to leave it there, but I thank you both for your time today. Very exciting.

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