The Ben Mulroney Show - Ben dives into the Tariff War being an opportunity for Canada to come out of it better

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Guests and Topics: Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founder of Chatter AI Guest: Troy Reeb, CEO of Corus Entertainment If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BC Premier Eby, who went on to Fox News to explain how he wants to see these tariffs, these retaliatory tariffs by Canada to be rolled out. He he wants to boycott goods from red states. Here's his explanation. We understand here in Canada, and I certainly understand here in British Columbia, we're tiny compared to the United States, you guys are huge. When when an action like this is taken against our country, we have to fight smarter. And when we target, specifically, the decision makers that are supporting this trade action against Canada, despite our shared history, despite our many ties, despite the fact that businesses on both sides and

consumers, families on both sides rely on the low prices that our relationship brings, we have to take action. We don't want this fight. We didn't sign up for this. In fact, I want to work with the president on fighting transnational organized crime. Let's get back to that. Let's get back to our shared relationship that delivers affordable prices for families. Your house prices are going to go up. Your fuel prices are going to go up. Your electricity prices are going to go up. Your grocery prices. Pasta is made out of Canadian wheat. For Pete's sake, why are we doing this? Yeah, that is, that is a narrative that is being echoed of through all levels of government that are dealing with this, where we say we're going to fight back,

but we don't want to we didn't want this fight. So there's this push pull, where we say we're your best friends, but if you punch us, we're going to punch you back. And our next guest suggests that that's not the case that Canada and America are no longer partners. Please welcome back to the show Tony Chapman, host of the award winning podcast chatter that matters and the founder of chatter AI Tony, welcome back to the show. Man, always a pleasure to be with you.

So you wrote a really great piece on LinkedIn. And why don't you tell our listeners what the thesis is? Well, the thesis is that, I mean, if you follow what Donald Trump said in his text, basically, it's one of two ways. Either we're going to bankrupt you or join Canada. I mean, this was, to me, is close to a declaration of economic war that I've witnessed It wasn't from some third world Person in desperation. This is from somebody that holds the highest office in the world And I think as Canadians we have to wake up to this that the days of being dependent on United States

Counting on United States doing what we feel is right Are over yeah United States, counting on the United States, doing what we feel is right, are over. America's created a moat. It wants to set up a toll booth at every port. And Canada's going to pay a horrific price. So how do we turn this into something that will turn the corner for the country in the short term and long term might be the wake up call that we desperately need. Yeah, Tony, you're absolutely right. Great leaders will take a crisis and turn it into an opportunity for betterment for the country. And you've got a few suggestions on what

we can do, how we can turn this moment into an opportunity. The first you say is we have to recall parliament. That's not happening. But it has to happen. I mean, this is political grandstanding. You just had the premier of BC and I don't care what he has to say. I care about a united front from Canada. There's a vacuum of leadership in this country. In Ontario, we're in the middle of an election and federally, we don't have a parliament. We've got to get back to the basics of democracy.

We need parliament in power. We need to very quickly move to liberals choosing a leader. And we need to, as Canadians, we got to go to a national election and choose somebody that we feel can best represent our interests. That's job number one. If not, we're just rudderless. And we're going to be just picked off like a low hanging fruit by the Americans. Now you did, you made one point that I think is really interesting. Stop spraying money like an unneutered cat. Well, there's billions and billions of dollars that we can be repurposed to the good of Canadians.

We spend so much money working government and so little money working for Canadians. The second thing that drives me crazy is when I hear things like the generosity of government, and I go, where's the financial literacy in voters? There's no generosity of government. It's based on taxpayers and our ability to borrow money, which means taxpayers are responsible for the interest on those payments.

And we're spraying so much money, world organizations, and we're, you know, hundreds of millions here to garner favors of countries in Africa. We've got to start repurposing that money. We spent $17 billion in consultants last year. Put that into Canadian IP. Yeah. And take that money that used to go, I don't really care about Accenture and McKinsey and making those partners wealthier. What I care about is Canadian IP that we can use to monetize for the next decades to come. And that's 17 billion dollars will go a long way for Canadian entrepreneurs to scale their

businesses. These are smart strategic moves, but you need a leadership in place capable of looking Canadians in the eye saying, this is the path we must follow. All the special interest groups get out of my way because ultimately what we need to do is to try to make Canada's destiny a matter of choice versus do follow the plan of Donald Trump as we become so economically damaged we have no choice but to join the United States. You know we are living in uncertain times but I gotta say I was quite inspired when you said in a decade we can be a superpower in ingenuity, AI, content, food, rare minerals, energy, preventative health care, longevity, indigenous medicines,

data centers, nuclear, sustainability, and more. In two decades we can be debt free. I mean those are laudable goals to keep on the horizon. Well, how's Norway owned 3% of the world stock market? Because they leveraged their oil resources, right? How does Saudi Arabia step up and say, we're going to put trillion dollars of investment into United States is because United States has bought that much of their oil. We've got rare minerals.

We've got uranium. We've got food. We've got a Canadian brand. Where would you rather eat, food from China or from Canada anywhere in the world? We just got to tell our story, package it up and present it. And we got to, instead of having, oh, I don't want a pipeline here through this province. Well, if you don't want a pipeline through our promise, you don't get any equalization

payments. That's how tough we've got to be as a country. We've got to get pipelines east and west built with Ontario steel. We've got to get our rare minerals. If the United States wants to do a trade war, then go and auction our rare minerals to other countries in the world at top dollar. And you'll see how fast they're gonna go. You mean we're gonna lose access to Canadian lithium

and rely on China to supply us lithium? This is the stuff we have to leverage, but we need leadership and we have to look Americans in the eye and say, look, we're either in this together because it betters North America, or if you wanna become an island, well then you think the world's say, look, we're either in this together because it betters North America, or if you want to become an island, well, then you think the world's moving one way. We think the world's going to move away from the United States, and we plan to lead that charge.

And that's what I want to see out of Canaanit. I want to see that strength in numbers as opposed to this partisan interest. I mean, honestly, the premier of BC telling us that we should boycott red states. I mean, like, this is just inflammatory nonsense. Well, listen, I can understand the logic behind it. What he's saying is if we target these guys, they're going to feel the pain first. They're the ones who have the ear of the president. And if my constituents are hurting, I have to bring that up the chain to the president

and hopefully move the needle in favor of Canada. Donald Trump signed 65 executive orders in the first 10 days in office. His pen is now suddenly, the tip of his pen is shaped like a crown. He's not even thinking about Congress or Senate. So all he's looking in his mind as a dealmaker is we can take all that Canada has offer for pennies on the dollar. They're not willing to do it right now. We can cripple them economically. So to think that we're going to put a dent in his mentality, I think is a mistake. He has declared an economic war in Canada. He thinks we are great strategic asset. He wants to buy us like a roadside motel and build a Trump Tower on us.

And I think we gotta wake up to this. This isn't some reality game. This isn't something that's gonna go away tomorrow. We're gonna feel such pain in this country over the next three or four years, but what if we can turn that pain into gain versus just simply going, oh, we'll subsidize everybody because we're now out of work.

What if we just rallied like this was a war and said to the Canada can stand like we only have 40 million people. We have we had the second largest landmass in the world. We have one fifth of the world's fresh water. We have we've got rare minerals energy uranium potash. I mean, listen guys, we have a lot of assets to offer the world. Tony we're gonna have to leave it there, but it's an

inspiring piece. I'm just getting going for God's sake. I can tell. Welcome to The Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for listening to us on the Chorus Radio Network, or maybe you listen to us in podcast form. You can find The Ben Mulroney Show on Amazon, on Spotify, and Apple podcasts. We appreciate your time. We appreciate your ears. And let's jump right in because it was a busy weekend. We know that at one minute past midnight, Donald Trump will levy

25% tariffs on every good going across the border. A special carve out has been given to Canadian, Canadian oil at 10%. But this is gonna hurt. This is gonna hurt. And now that we know it's coming, we are seeing the reaction from Canadian leaders. Most recently, Doug Ford, Ontario Premier Doug Ford, took to Twitter to say, starting today, and until US tariffs are removed, Ontario is banning American companies

from provincial contracts. Every year, the Ontario government and its agencies spend $30 billion on procurement alongside our $200 billion plan to build Ontario. US based businesses will now lose out on tens of billions of dollars in new revenues. They only have President Trump to blame. We're going one step further. We'll be ripping up the province's contract with Starlink. Ontario won't do business with people hell-bent on destroying our economy. Canada didn't start this fight with the

U.S., but you better believe we're ready to win it. So yeah, the tension and the heat is ratcheting up. As you can see, Doug Ford has always been, of all of our leaders, he feels like the most emotionally invested in this. And when he speaks, there's definite emotion in his voice. On Saturday, our prime minister took to a microphone and said a number of things, and we're going to delve into that stuff. But look, your government has left you to fend for yourself. The one thing we need above

all else, let's be honest, is for Trudeau to recall government, recall parliament. We need an election. And we have to have a united strategy to fight back against the Americans. And Justin Trudeau is denying us the right, the ability to do that. And he was asked point blank, look, we did it at 9-11. Why don't you, can you end this prorogation? What are your thoughts on ending prorogation and bringing back the members of parliament to debate this existential threat to our economy? I think Canadians are a little perplexed as to why our closest friends and neighbours are choosing to target us instead of so many other challenging parts of the world.

I don't think there's a lot of Americans who wake up in the morning saying, oh, damn Canada, oh, we should really go after Canada. We're there as friends, as partners. We always have been, we always will be. Sure, we're going through a difficult time right now and yeah, emotions may run high here and there, particularly around hockey games. But I know we're going to make through this because we have the most successful partnership the world has ever seen. And it's a true value in this time of really challenging geopolitical instability. I mean, I listen, I'm going to be petty for a second. I can't listen to that guy talk anymore.

That's that's I'll say that once. I won't say it anymore. I get really tired of his voice. So that was him talking about our closeness to the United States and, and much of what he said, I do, I agree with. Here is him talking about an end to prorogation. As you can see from our strong response package, as we spoke about with premiers this afternoon and have for many weeks, we have the tools to be able to support Canadians through this challenging time as it stands. This is a moment for Canadians to pull together, including Canadians of all different political parties. This is a moment where we need to

set aside our differences and focus on delivering for Canadians, standing up for Canadians, and protecting the most successful political, military, economic, and security partnership the world has ever seen. And that's exactly what we're

going to do. We have the tools to do it as a government right now. We will keep doing it alongside our premiers and our partners. I don't know. I don't know that that's true. I think you need to bring back parliament so that if you need to,

if you need a bill to spend some money, that's how it's done. But he was also asked if he believes Donald Trump, if he believes that the real reason for this is the border. We have one of the strongest, more secure borders in the world between Canada and the United States. As I said, less than 1% of fentanyl going into the United States come from Canada, less than 1% of illegal migrants going into the United States come from Canada.

That doesn't mean there isn't more to do. And that's why we've invested $1.3 billion in strengthening our borders. And we're seeing over the past number of weeks, past couple of months, the numbers significantly decrease at the border already. We are making progress in working together, including sending joint teams over to China to talk about the precursor chemicals that get developed into fentanyl all across North America. There are things that we can and must do together and I understand the preoccupation the American president has with fentanyl deaths. We share those preoccupations. We've seen far too many communities across our country

devastated. On this point, on the fentanyl point, our prime minister does not have a leg to stand on. There is a video making the rounds on social media from a few months ago from inside the House of Commons where Pierre Poliev stood up and challenged the prime minister on his government's position on legalizing drugs including fentanyl and not banning the prerequisite elements that make fentanyl and in that exchange Pierre Poliev said months ago that this behavior was going to put our trading relationship with the United States

at risk. So he predicted all of this, all of this. And in typical fashion, our prime minister dodged and evaded and said he was standing up for Canadians while Pierre Pauly was just seeking to divide us. So on this point, I'm sorry, I have no time for you on this point. But south of the border, the National Economic Council director, Kevin Hassett, who was an economic adviser to Donald Trump in his first term, he was on CNBC Squawk Box, where he said, and this is a man who has the president's ear, he said that tariffs are 100% about fentanyl and the White House is impressed by Mexico's

response, not so much with Canada, which has led its people to believe that this is a trade war and not a drug war. He was very critical of Canada's leadership and he believes they're misdirecting the conversation. He said they're playing politics. Mexico understands the situation. He says that we don't understand the actual issue. Now the numbers don't lie. Our numbers are inconsequential compared to what's happening at the southern border.

But for some reason, the White House is looking at this through a lens that makes sense to them. Yesterday, Donald Trump was on the tarmac getting onto Air Force One, where he said Canada has been abusive to the United States for years. He didn't say anything about the border. Canada has been very abusive of the United States for many years. They don't allow our banks. And you know that? Canada does not allow banks to go in. If you think about it, that's pretty amazing. If we have a U.S.

bank, they don't allow them to go in. Canada has been very tough on oil, on energy. They don't allow our farm products in, essentially. They don't allow a lot of things in, and we allow everything to come in. It's been a one-way street. We subsidize Canada by the tune of about $200 billion a year. And for what? What do we get out of it? We

don't get anything out of it. I love the people of Canada. I disagree with the leadership of Canada. And something's going to happen there. But if they want to play the game, I don't mind. We can play the game all they want. Great so now it's about banks great. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and we are living in a brave new world of Donald Trump tariffs and it is realigning us in so many important ways not the least of which is if he's gonna attack us then we're gonna protect ourselves and one of the tools in our toolkit is the least of which is if he's going to attack us, then we're going to protect ourselves. And one of the tools in our toolkit is the notion of buying Canadian.

And Corus, this wonderful company, is running a campaign across its platforms, TV networks, streaming, and radio, to encourage audiences to buy Canadian in light of the U.S. tariffs that come into effect, or they're coming into effect tomorrow or midnight tonight. And we're joined now by Troy Reeve, the co-CEO of Corus Entertainment,

to talk a little bit more about this. Troy, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ben. So great to be here and so great to be on your show. I, it's a real treat to have you here on the station. Well, thank you very much. I'm still getting my sea legs, but I'm having a lot of fun. Troy, buying Canadian, it's, well, of course we all want to do it.

It's not as easy as it sounds, and but I think we have to ask ourselves, to what end? Buying Canadian, to what end? Well, we've tried to define it very, in the broadest possible way. Basically, if you listen to the commercials that we're running across our platforms, we say, support those companies that create jobs

and invest in our communities. And look, you're right, it's difficult to truly buy Canadian. What's Canadian anymore? Tim Hortons, kind of the most iconic Canadian brand is part of restaurant brands international, actually has some control on a Brazilian company, but probably majority US shareholders in the end. There's a bunch of stuff flying around the internet about,

well, this brand of ketchup is Canadian, but that brand isn't. Well, the reality is like Heinz makes their product in Canada again. They didn't for a little while, but then they brought it back because they got a lot of backlash. And so if the goal is to support job creators

and pillars of the community, then does it really matter what flag they fly? If the jobs are created here in really matter what flag they fly? If the jobs are created here in Canada, should that be enough? I think it is. I think it probably is. And if companies have planted their flag in Canada,

if they are hiring people in our communities, if they are making products in our communities, then that's probably the easiest thing as opposed to trying to spend endless amounts of time turning packages around. that's helpful too. But we all have to cut ourselves a little bit of a break because brands have become international and that's one of the biggest problems

of this whole tariff war is that things go back and forth across. French's mustard is made with completely Canadian seeds but it's made in the United States. Cranberry juice from Ocean Spray made with Canadian cranberries but made in the United States. Soranberry juice from Ocean Spray, made with Canadian cranberries, but made in the United States. So are you gonna not support an American product

that supports Canadian farmers? Yeah, no, it's confusing, but if you keep your eyes on the prize and say, the goal here is to support local business, support Canadian business, support job creators here in Canada, then I think things get a little more clear. And my hope is that

the retailers are going to help us as well and direct us to the products that are worth our money. Well I think that's really important. It's not only on the manufacturers of these products but retailers as well to really point out which products are truly Canadian or supporting Canadian jobs and Canadian communities. And that should be the bottom line that people are focused on. The one thing that we wanna remind everyone is, the one thing that's really clear of companies

that are definitely not Canadian are those that are operating through the internet, that you're buying products from the US. And the big one for our industry is advertising, of course. And I don't have to tell you how toxic these social media platforms have become. But we saw all of these tech billionaires running these social media platforms lined up at Trump's inauguration, currying favor with this

government. These are the same platforms that are now taking 60% of the advertising dollars in Canada. When just a generation ago, 95% of advertising went to Canadian companies. So we hope that some of this as Canadians repatriate, we'll see those dollars come back to Canadian platforms like 640. But this isn't just about

640. This is about all the community newspapers and podcasts and everything that's truly Canadian. No, no. When I heard we were doing this here, I looked at sort of the campaign itself, I thought, oh, this advertising thing's a little weird, but it's actually not at all. It's completely aligned. We're asking people to buy Canadian airtime and promote on Canadian platforms. I think it's completely consistent and probably often overlooked. And possibly more than any other industry,

we have seen this massive sea change in the space of 20 years. As I say, 95% of Canadian ad dollars 20 years ago went to Canadian media, less than 50% go to Canadian media now, almost 50% or about 50% goes to just two US companies, Google and Meta. And so it's not that Canadian media

can't accommodate the demands of advertisers, whether in electronic means, old fashioned means, there's lots of opportunity to support Canadian media. And by shifting their buys back, they not only get the benefit of keeping their dollars in Canada and supporting Canadian content and jobs, they take it away from these social media platforms that have that are contributing to just every toxic trend in our society. Troy, what did you make of the Canadians

booing the American national anthem? Because that represents to me, I mean we crossed a Rubicon there Yeah, I we did and you know as someone who used to live in the United States I spent three years living in Washington DC You know, it's odd every no matter what side of the aisle you talk to people from whether they're conservative Republicans liberal Democrats Canada has always been seen as friends the idea that we would boo the national anthem is, would be incredibly out of character. I sing their national anthem and I, and I, and I

used to applaud. Yeah, I take off my hat when I go to a Washington capitals or a game. Look, it is, it speaks to the level of passion that has been fired up in Canadians and that doesn't exist in the U.S. There's no, there's no Americans anywhere clamoring to kick Canada in the ghoulies.

There just aren't, except for one maybe. But in Canada, this is everything. This is economic warfare and it is incredibly serious and incredibly damaging and all the polls in the US show Americans don't want it and clearly we don't either. Yeah, I think when they get the one, two, three punch of retaliatory tariffs from Canada, from Mexico, and from China, all hitting at the same time,

I don't know that they've factored in that triple threat yet. I think, you know, we know Canada, all we can do is retaliate with a scalpel. They have a sledgehammer. But when you throw Mexico in there and you throw China in as well, all of a sudden that's a recipe for disaster. Yeah, look, the one thing that Canadians have to,

we have our reputation as polite and kind people for a reason. What you have to be careful of is to not fire up the jingoistic instincts in the United States where people suddenly who weren't engaged in this conversation suddenly want to retaliate because they see us booing their national anthem. Hopefully a lot of Americans are awakened to the fact

that oh my gosh, our best friend, the people who have been there to support us through thick and thin for a century are suddenly booing our anthem. What is that about? But I worry that some people aren't that plugged in and will just see the tactic as opposed to the strategy. You know, let's go back to this buy Canadian for a moment

because it occurred to me, now that I'm making these choices, that there are actually very few brands that I am loyal to. I'll buy whatever eggs I see and I'll buy whatever bacon I see and I'll buy whatever hot dogs I see. Clearly I have a great diet.

But that's a good thing. That's an opportunity for a lot of Canadians to learn about what products are Canadian made or Canadian, you know, good for the Canadian economy. And this is a chance to break some habits maybe. You know, I went grocery shopping on the weekend and dropped about $200 and it probably took me an extra 15 to 20 minutes to make my way through the store because I was checking labels and turning around bottles and, and look, there are lots of big international brands that, you know, Kraft makes their salad dressings in Canada, for instance. They display that proudly on the bottle. A lot of other, you know, packages you have to turn around and hide, but you're right, Ben, it

is a great opportunity for people to try something new, to learn about their friends and neighbors. And there's a lot of talk about how we have to tear down inter-provincial trade barriers. We also have to tear down the barriers that keep us from from trying great Canadian products that exist in our own minds. So the goal of this campaign just to keep it top of mind for people to continue to support their friends and neighbors in Canada because our our friend and neighbor in the US has suddenly not

become very reliable. Troy Reeb, CEO at KORUS Entertainment. Thank you very much. The initiative is about buying Canadian and I think it's a it's a we are meeting the moment and I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Real pleasure, Ben. Thanks. Hey, before we go to break, I want to play a little bit of audio for you. Pierre Poliev asked what point is our relationship beyond repair with the United States? Our friendship with the Americans is not based on any one politician. It is based on our centuries-long history of trade, of friendship, of common defense, of fighting on the battlefield, arms locked together against common enemies. We will continue to build that friendship with the people of the United States.

But let me be clear, we are an independent and we are a proud nation. And we will come through this an independent and a proud sovereign nation. We will not back down. We will not cease. We will continue to march forward as proud Canadians. Thank you. I have nothing to add. Well done. BC Children's Hospital is one of North America's top pediatric care hospitals leading the way in groundbreaking research, treatment and innovation. We're pushing the boundaries of what's possible.

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