The Ben Mulroney Show - Ben returns from Israel/Harm Reduction Exposed/York region investments

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Guest: DEREK FINKLE — National Post Columnist GUEST:  Jonathan Wheatle, Director of Economic Strategy, York Region GUEST:  Brendan Sweeny, Managing Director, The Trillium Network of Advanced Manufacturing If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get better answers to tough questions. BlueJ. AI for tax experts. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Rooney, and he's back in the chair. I just spoke about myself in the third person. I promise it won't happen again. Thank you so much for joining us on the Monday morning edition of the show. It's the first of December. It's the first of December. No, that's the first of November. Remember the first of November? Welcome back to me. I was just on a fact-finding mission in Israel. I had a wonderful time. And let's welcome Mike Droulet, my intrepid producer, into the conversation. Egg, good to see you back. You missed me. Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah, yeah. We got a good thing, you and me. Yes, there was no hugs, though.

No, no, yeah, well, you're not feeling well. No. And I'm trying my best not to get sick. I've had a few brushes with sickness, but I've been fair, I mean, I've been okay. But yeah, I had a great time. Turns out me going there was a little bit of a tempest in a teapot. There's some people very offended that I. People were angry that you, yeah.

Can you imagine if you, oh, can you imagine to upgrade your seat? Oh, I did upgrade on the way home. Oh, no, don't tell. it was a direct flight back and I put myself on the on the wait list and literally five minutes before we moved I got into a premium economy I got a economy that's fine well that's what economy used to be yeah right and so uh on the way there there was two flights and I just took whatever seat I was given and I figured if it was a direct flight back I mean that's 13 hours in a plane that's a long yeah it's a 13 hour flight yeah about that about that yeah and so I was very happy it was like I won

the lottery. Anyway, yeah, but a little bit of a little bit of a people took offense to me going. Some people, some people, a very loud vocal group of people took offense. Yeah, but they're the people get offended by everything. Yeah, well, you know, for full disclosure, I think I said this last week. It was a paid junket by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I believe, and in Israel. And yeah, I went with some city councilors from Toronto, some former politicians, enemy Paul, the former Green Party leader, who's also Jewish, was there. And, yeah. And, you know, And we had meetings with politicians. We went to the Knesset.

We went, I mean, we went everywhere. We chronicled it on the Ben Mulroney Show Instagram. I went all the way down to the south where I saw the Gaza checkpoint. I could see the Egyptian border. And I saw the, I saw the Israeli wall and I saw the Egyptian wall. The Egyptians, if the size of the wall tells you anything, it tells you that Egypt wants the Palestinians in their country. less than the Israelis. Their wall is serious, man.

It is serious. So we were all the way down there. We went to the site of the Nova Massacre. I went to the, I went to the Kibbutz, Kibbutz near Oz, which is where the Biba's family was from. You know, I said this last year when I was talking on the phone briefly,

it just seems, you're talking about all these different places you're going to go see and you're like, if you said something like that in Canada where you're going to go see to all these different places in Canada, you have to take planes all over the place. Yeah. It is not a huge area. No, I'm pretty sure you can drive the length of the country in like half a day.

Half a day, easy to get from the southernmost tip to the northern. And we went to the northernmost tip where you are, where there's a town up there called Matula that borders Lebanon on three sides. It's like the nub of the country. And Lebanon doesn't encircle it, but there's a semicircle around it. And you can see, and back in the day, there was a. buffer zone between that Israel occupied to give it a little distance because of, you know, Hezbollah that was, that was firing rockets. At least you had a little more time to evacuate. And Israel, I think, 22,000 something, just decided to unilaterally seed that ground again and left.

And what happened, Hezbollah got a heck of a lot closer. And then when they launched their offensive during the war, they've practically destroyed 90% of the of the buildings in this small town and most people have not yet returned. So what is the one thing that really, it's got to be more than one thing, what are some of the things that really stood out for you? Some of the stories you heard, some of the people you spoke with. Well, I think I told Alex when she was sitting in on this show and thank you very much for Alex for doing that. But the people of Israel across the political spectrum, left, right, middle of the ground, secular religious, they do not care what we think. They don't care.

They don't care about our opinions on a two-state solution. They do not care. So we can raise as many flags as we want and paid protesters can take over the streets of Toronto and other cities until they're blue in the face. They are not listening because the only thing they care about is protecting their people. and they're going to do whatever they need to do. And based on the conversations we had, I do not see a two-state solution being promoted by Israel anytime soon.

Like this peace plan that's been brokered by Donald Trump is going to have to, they're going to have to get a lot of road, like highway miles on it. And they're going to have to, a trust has to be rebuilt as far as they're concerned. There's no, they are not going to do, they're not going to move on a recognizing a Palestinian state anytime soon. So they don't care about how we feel about that. Yeah. But they do care about the perception, which is why they did this joke in, right?

Well, yeah. So one of the reasons I wanted to go was in the early days of the war, when a hospital in Gaza was like there was an explosion there. Within minutes, the quote unquote, Gaza Health Authority, which is the Hamas Health Authority, announced that hundreds of people were killed. Hundreds of innocent civilians were killed by an Israeli rocket. And the amount of people on this side of the ocean

who jumped on that lie, like a fat kid on cake, shocked a heck out of me. And eventually it was... And Hamas was quick to tell you how many people and how many innocents were killed. And then it turns out that it was a misfiring Hamas rocket that landed in the park. lot and very few people died but by the way Melanie Jolie our foreign minister never that

her that tweet is still up that tweet is still up where she condemned she condemned our uh the our ally Israel and defending itself saying that this this can never happen and blah blah blah blah blah never well it never happened and when I saw that I was like my god they're they're really not combating this misinformation and there's so many people on this side of the ocean who are so willing to believe that sort of thing. And we had a lot of conversations about that. And I figured I need to go over there. I want to go over there

so that I can sit here with this microphone in front of me. And when I speak about something, I can speak about personal experiences that I had and people I talked to. And yes, this was a paid opportunity to go over there, taken care of by the Israeli government. But I'm not an idiot.

I have eyes and I have ears and I have experience and I have education and I read and I went in there with a critical eye and the questions that we asked those people were very, were hard and they were fair and then when the junket part was over, nobody told us not to go to certain areas or not to talk to certain people. We didn't have somebody following us to make sure that we only saw what the country wanted us to see, we were free to roam and free to talk and free to experience and what I saw was a free and democratic country with people who want to be there. and people who believe in that country

and protecting the people. I saw, we met with a leader from the, the Drews community, the Christian community, who said he was a, you know, he was a former ambassador

and he was a municipal leader. And he said, I love this country. I want to defend this country. I've worked for this country. I've been a spokesperson for this country. There are laws that I don't like, and there are laws that I will fight to change.

That sounds an awful law. like what somebody in Canada would say, right? There are, like, listen to what comes out of the NDP and the Greens. Listen to what, listen. I mean, we've got people in this country who say they hate this country. And yet there are still value here. And, you know, people who are, who feel marginalized does not mean you throw the entire country out.

And I saw no, no evidence of apartheid. That is a, that is a blood liable. It's disgusting. It diminishes the, it diminishes the, um, uh, the pain that South African blacks endured. It's a shameful lie. Shameful lie. And anytime I hear it from somebody, I look at that person and say, you are not worthy of conversation.

I will not be able to change your mind because you are so stupid and so gullible that you jumped on that lie and, and ran with it. I do not want to take the time, uh, to, to educate you. Well, listen, we'll spend more time on this as the day. This was something I was very glad to do, and I'll be sharing it over the course of, well, forever. When we come back, what's coming up on the show? Oh, the evidence is piling up against the harm reduction crowd.

Stick around. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show. Thanks so much. We've got to, listen, let's all agree that on this Monday, At the beginning of December, we're going to have a great week. I came in so excited to be back at work, to be back on the show, to be back talking with you. Even working with drolley, even working with drolley, I was pleased this morning. That's how happy I was.

And I'm going to endeavor to stay positive this week, despite, as you know, we have news that sometimes is not positive, right? Every now and then, however, somebody sees the light, and we've got to give them credit, right? And David Eby, the premier of British Columbia, who these days, if you are grading his performance and if you are grading the impact of his work on a whole bunch of files, you might not give him an A plus. Here's David Eby talking about, I mean, this is almost has come to Jesus moment where he said, there's a connection. between drug dealers and extortion. An additional $4 million from the federal government for a task force to chase down those gangsters that are involved in drug activity south of the Fraser

because there is a close connection between the gangs involved in extortion and the gangs involved in criminal drug dealing in these communities as well. I'm sorry, I just need, I'm gobsmacked. My jaw is on the floor. You're telling me, Mr. Premier, that there is a connection between drug dealing

and criminality. I don't know. My whole worldview is shattered. I've never heard anybody say something so wild. I mean, I thought we were following the science here. But okay, I'm so glad you said that. Now, that's not the focus of what we're talking about right now. That's just consider that the groundwork, okay?

So criminality. When you add that to a story that came out last week, and thank you Anthony Fury for really high. highlighting this in his piece in the National Post that there is a Toronto public health staff 10 point plan addressing policies for shelters and drug use facilities. Okay. So he got his hands on this. And here's here's what's coming out. Here's what came out of that 10 point plan self-authored, right? This was written by the Toronto public health staff addressing how to deal with drug dealers and how to deal with drug-addicted people.

Here's, they want to hire active drug users to work at these shelters. The document recommends, quote, intentional integration of people who use drugs into shelter staffing. And they suggested paid duties, including assisting peers with drug use, helping friends inject drugs. Suggested guidance and abstinence. based shelters, must still use harm reduction approaches, even in shelters where drug use is prohibited.

Staff should still enable residents to use drugs in the safest way possible. So in abstinence-based shelters, the people who work there still want people to be able to use drugs. In an abstinence shelter. And I want to go back to the intentional integration of people who use drugs. Are you telling me that you live in a world? Where a fentanyl addict is going to wake up in the morning, brush their teeth, take a shower, put on clothes, walk to feed the dog, walk to work, clock in, help people use drugs, clock out, go home, go to sleep and do it all over. That's, you think, that's the world you live in because the people who live around those shelters.

would beg to differ on the reliability of a drug addict to show up for work. They're going to show up and they're going to steal the drugs from the other people working there because they're drug addicts, as I've said before. I heard the testimony of a drug addict once online. He said drug addicts will always take the path of least resistance. They're not going to do the hard work to get clean unless they have. have the help to do so left in a world where they can choose between doing drugs and anything else they're going to do the drugs but okay that's that's something and even that my

friends that's not even the point of what we want to talk about right now both of those things are again um the background for a conversation we are going to have coming up after the break where we're going to be talking with national post columnist derrick finkel he's been following the Damien Hudson trial. Now, some of you may be forgiven if you don't remember this, but this is going on right now. Damien Hudson is charged with killing a woman near the South Riverdale site, the safe injection site. And it reveals extensive evidence of rampant drug dealing around and inside the site. Court evidence is showing that the site consistently violated. It's promised zero-tolerance policy on drug dealing.

And anecdotally, what we've been seeing on this, what we've been chronicling on the Ben Mulroney show is that the stated goals of Toronto's policy on drug use, on the tolerance of drug use, on what constitutes an abstinence site, all of that is meaningless. There is what we're told, and then there is what happens in real life. and what's happening in real life is the activists who want to propagate this system will do and say anything they want to get their way. They will out and out lie and say we follow the science and that, oh, nothing to see here.

And oh, this is, this is the best possible scenario. Oh, the streets aren't littered with drug addicts. What you've seen with your eyes, you didn't see. and the more we the more sunlight we bring into the into the dark dirty crevices of this system the better and we're going to be doing that in our next system our next segment but you know so that that's coming up again like I said Derek Finkel from the National Post but who are these people like yeah what we were saying I was going to say because what came out of the trial is really interesting interesting, which is this one extreme, you know, pro-harm reduction voice.

Dr. Ahmed Bayoumi, he's a researcher and he's a supporter of this. Yes, and he said, so again, a doctor, right, somebody you would expect to follow the science. He's a supporter of our supervised injection sites in this city. He testified, he said this, he testified, there is, quote, no evidence that these sites increased drug dealing. I'd like to remind you of the David Eby clip where he said

that there's absolutely a link and $4 million is going into investigating that. He said in his affidavit he acknowledged community complaints. Sure people are complaining. Sure people feel unsafe

on the streets. But he dismisses it as anecdotal. A person like this has no business doing the job he's doing. Like this, I'm sorry, there's no, no business. How can you, how can you just completely deny what everybody can see with their own eyes? Remember we had that conversation with Kevin Dahlgren.

Yes. From Portland, he's a YouTuber. Yeah. We had two weeks ago. And two years ago, he got his, he made his way into a safe injection site in Vancouver. And, and he, with a camera. And he showed what amounted to a state-sponsored crack den, like a crack house, right? Instead of crack is probably fentanyl and heroin and all sorts of nasty stuff.

But essentially it was a crack house that we, the taxpayer in Vancouver, the taxpayers of Vancouver, are paying for. State sponsored subsidized. Just walking in, no supervision. Drug addicts passed out doing drugs, certainly not in any safe environment, certainly not under any real supervision. We saw that with our own eyes. This guy is telling us to dismiss that because it's all anecdotal. How is it anecdotal?

You've got video proof. Go into any one of the sites here in Toronto, which we've had a lot of people go into, various groups who are really opposed to this, who just, they don't even oppose to it. They're just, they want the truth out there. Yeah. But when you see something with your own eyes, when I hear from other people, when I hear when we have people on this show who tell us how their lives have been negatively impacted

in meaningful ways, when they do not want to leave their house, when they're worried about the safety of their kids walking to the corner store or playing in a playground for fear of stepping on a needle. Like, that ain't anecdotal. Anyway, coming up after the break, if you want to go to a fishing hole in downtown Toronto,

just go to a drug death. We'll tell you what that means after the break. The holiday season is full of choices. Cranberry sauce or gravy, skip rent or skip Christmas. I'm Lieutenant Colonel John Murray of the Salvation Army. When poverty gives someone an impossible choice, your donation is their answer. Donate now at Salvationarmy.ca. At Edmonton Cabota, they power Alberta's hardest workers

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We are Cabota. You are our family. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at p.c.express.com. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show. All right. Before the break, we were talking about the state of play where we are today in terms of how cities like Toronto deal with drug addiction. And there is a court case going on right now. It's the trial of Damian Hudson

charged with killing Carolina Huber Macerat near the South Riverdale site extensive evidence of rampant drug dealing around and inside the site and we're joined now by Derek Finkel of the National Post

who is following the trial very closely. Derek, welcome. Hey, good morning, Ben. Okay, so for our listeners who are not familiar with the case, give us high level what what it's all about well

there was a shooting on July 7th of 23 so two summers ago where in the middle of the lunch hour on a Friday afternoon with a lot of people walking around on Queen Street East near car law in the Leslieville neighborhood

some drug two drug dealers essentially ambushed robbed another drug dealer. Guns were drawn, and very unfortunately, a mother, a local mother of two young children was shot and killed essentially right on Queen Street. And this all happened against the backdrop of a lot of concern in the community about where this woman, Carolina, Hewbner Macra, was shot, which was right out in front of

the South Riverdale Community Health Centers. injection site, which had been out of control. I live, you know, for a long time. And, you know, my neighbors and I were very aware of that. You know, I live right across the street from the site, as you know. And, um, and so a lot of this, this trial is, is in part, it's about, you know, who, who's responsible for this woman's death. But this, this murder trial actually is playing another important role because after the shooting and there was much hand-wringing in the healthcare world about, you know, whether or not this injection site should still be around or not after this incident. And they hired, you know, the people, researchers, harm reduction

researchers who had more responsible for the existence of these places in the first place to review them or to do what was called a critical incident review. And then when these reviews came out, they actually didn't include anything about the critical incident in question. In fact, they studiously avoided any sort of, you know, insight into what was going on around the site in terms of drug dealing and these kinds of things that we were complaining about. And so this trial is acting as, in a way, the first real review about what was really and truly going on around the site.

Yeah, this is, in a lot of ways, it feels like this, that it's not just Damien who's on trial, but the system is on trial. The system that is allowing for drug dealers to operate with impunity that doesn't seem to be doing anything to mitigate drug use and, in fact, is reinforcing it. normalizing it and by extension making our streets and neighborhoods and communities less safe is on trial. And some of the evidence that was presented in court, Derek, is, you know, video footage showing the frequent drug dealing immediately around the site. Six drug dealers were identified within 20 feet of the site during the fight that preceded the fatal shooting. And drug trafficking expert that described injection sites as fishing holes attracting drug deals. This to me, Derek, is not a surprise.

I mean, we've known since methadone clinics in the 70s popped up that that's where the heroin dealers would hang out in the parking lot after people would get their methadone. They're trying to get clean. And the drug dealers would just hang out in the parking lot because that's where your clients are. It's crazy to me that people were trying to tell us that the reality that we are all.

living is in fact not reality that you know oh if you're complaining like you just talked about your experiences living in the neighborhood and but according to that that uh the testimony of um of the doctor that i talked about in the previous segment uh that's all uh that's all uh anecdotal that's not real evidence that was dr ahmed bayumi uh like so what do you say to that well yeah and i mean this is this this is kind of what i find kind of outrageous uh and it's kind of compelling me forward a little bit in this story is that, you know, we were told this neighborhood was told back before this site opened in 2017 that it would have a zero tolerance drug dealing policy. In other words, they wouldn't allow, you know, drug dealers

around the site. So we all could sleep safely and, you know, not worry about it. Well, we now know from the evidence, voluminous evidence over the last three weeks or so, that, you know, Two or three maybe employees of the site have testified in court that not only were, you know, drug dealers, you know, not told to get away. They actually were befriended. They were, you know, employees, the managers were instructing the employees to befriend them and to have, you know, the one Khalila Muhammad, the most recent person to get on the witness stand was having voluminous stuff. tax and, you know, with all kinds of drug dealers and, you know, and ended up having an affair with one of them after the shooting. But, but, you know, this is. Yeah, Derek, this is, this is the most disgusting part, right? Is, like, the staff were instructed that the dealers were part

of the community should be treated respectfully. And this is, this is the disgusting part. Because without them, we don't have clients. So it's the fact that, that we all know the same thing. We all know that without the drug dealers, there are no drug addicts. Everybody knows that. But for some reason, the people living in the community recognize that the drug dealers are a cancer that needs to be cut out. And the people working there view them as their cash cow. But even more specifically, but even more specifically what Dr. Beumi argues, like, so when you say that, what he'll say, his counterpoint would be, yeah, but the drug dealers were already there.

That's why we put these sites in these communities because drug dealing was already a problem. And that there's, you know, and there's no evidence to suggest that these sites create more drug dealing. But that's what's going up in smoke here. Yeah. Because the three drug dealers who got in this altercation that led to this poor woman's death, they all came from pretty far away. They all were from Scarborough. In fact, there's another drug dealer who was one of the six. who was involved in, you know, I refer to the six within a 20-foot radius,

her name was Layla. Police haven't even been able to find her. And a lot of the drug activity and the drug dealing, you know, they had a, as you mentioned earlier, they had a drug trafficking expert come in and testify to the fact that these sites don't just draw local drug dealers. They draw drug dealers from all over the place and drug users too. Yeah.

And this is the thing that the Bayomian, is fighting against because it's really obvious to you and to me that this would happen. But to them, you know, this ideology is predicated on this very naive idea that they don't make, these sites don't make anything worse. And it's, it's, and frankly, at this point, it's just, it's a lie. It is. And when I hear everything that you've just said, you know, somebody referenced the harm reduction industrial complex.

And it is, it's big business, right? It's big business. and it feels like this employee testimony validates that expression. Without them, we don't have clients. This is, this is, and I, I, I struggle to make a business case for the city to take our hard-earned and increasingly more important tax dollars and throwing them, I mean, I would say throwing them down a rat hole, but we've got, we're throwing them down a fishing hole. Yeah. And, and, you know, even you talk about the drug expert who actually came from the

Toronto Police Service, the drug trafficking expert. And one thing that's really interesting also is that when these guys all got arrested back in 2023, the two of them, the third one is at large, you fled to Somalia and has never been seen since. But the two who were arrested in 23, when the police were doing press conferences and so forth about the arrest, and people would ask, reporters would ask, hey, so what is the, you know, complicity of the, the injection site and all this? And the police would beg it off and they would beg it off and say, well, we're not making the connection between this shooting and the injection site.

And now their whole case is predicated. Now they've got their own drug trafficking expert coming in and saying these places are fishing holes that draw drug dealers from far and white. So there was some political pressure put on the police at some point. Okay, Derek, I got to leave it there, but I hope to catch up with you again, this trial evolves. Thank you so much. Okay, take care. All right, up next, some good news for the region. Investments. Will that mean high-end jobs? Stay tuned.

And welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And one of the reasons I love doing this show is I learn something every day. And I've never pretended to know everything. And I love learning in real time with you, our listeners, and our viewers on YouTube. And sometimes you're the ones teaching me. And sometimes it's just by process of putting a show together, new information comes into my life. For example, when I thought of Canada's aerospace industry, I assumed that the lion's share of it was in Quebec. Every time I hear about that, every time I hear about aerospace and defense, it's stuff that's happening in Quebec. Turns out not necessarily the case that we have a thriving aerospace and defense sector in York region.

York Region economic development is announcing a lot of big news on that front. And so to talk about that, please welcome Jonathan Wheatel, Director of Economic Strategy for York Region. And Brendan Sweeney, managing director of the Trillium Network of Advanced Manufacturing. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Good morning. Thanks for having this. Absolutely. Let's start with you, Jonathan. What is new?

What is the reason for the conversation for people to be optimistic? Because any good economic news, anywhere in this country, we want to highlight. Absolutely, absolutely. So what's new? Well, we're working here in New York region with our economic development partners and peers to support the business community in these times of uncertainty. And as we know, the federal government really has stepped up and is focused on, and the aerospace and defense industry as an opportunity to grow our economy and support domestically.

So with us understanding that this was on the horizon, we decided to take a look, a little bit of a deeper look into what some of our manufacturers look like relative to the aerospace and defense. And, you know, we're doing that to try to create a roadmap and support businesses going forward so they can take advantage of these opportunities. So really exciting. and we've identified about a hundred manufacturers or so in the airspace and defense sector directly right now. And we've been working with Brendan Sweeney

and the Chilium Network for Advanced Manufacturers to do this work. That's great, Brendan. That's perfect opportunity for you to chime in. How exciting is this? And I guess for people at home, if you can, speak to how big the industry is in the area, but also how different is tomorrow going to be than yesterday? I think that's a, like, what scale of change and investment are we talking about here?

Sure. The industry is bigger than we thought, and it's a bit bigger than we thought because in defense, it touches so many different segments. There's aircraft, there's land systems, there's communication systems, there's marine systems. With more than $80 billion coming down the pipe, there's going to be a lot of demand. And what we're really looking to do is get the supply side ready, whether that is incumbent companies, realize capabilities, companies that already do defense industry work, or whether that's companies with really sophisticated but latent capabilities that might be able to transition into the defense industry. And one thing that's really, really interesting that we're finding out as we go about the defense industry and about the companies that are involved in the defense industry. industry, a lot, a greater proportion than many other industries of smaller, sophisticated, innovative Canadian-owned companies.

And so that's really exciting. We're really excited to get out there, work with the federal government, and work with you smaller companies. And, Brendan, I'd love to level set as well, because it feels to me that, so in this case, we know what we don't know. In other words, like, the questions I can, we hear the headlines. of investments coming in from the federal government, more of a priority placed on military procurement,

defense procurement. But do we know at this point what that's going to look like, what those investments are going to look like? For example, are we going to, we hear about these billions upon billions of dollars hitting our 2% of GDP on military spending. But we don't know necessarily whether we're going to be building that ourselves, whether we're going to be buying it from abroad,

whether we're going to be part of the supply chain in any way, Are you getting any clarity on what the federal government wants, what our Canadian military needs and where your region fits into those questions and answers? I think we're preaching patience for the time being. This is such a big initiative that we want to get the details right. And what we're aiming to do is to have the information at ready so we can say if this is what we're going to spend the money on, here's where our supply base, our capabilities align with that, here's where we can make this work for our economy and really be transformative. And I think that's where we're looking

to help right now. Jonathan, I think one of the reasons I want to have this conversation is because we've got a lot of listeners who feel the impact, the pinch of the past 10 years, as they've seen the economy weekend and jobs leaving from all points. What do you think this is going to mean for jobs, for growth in York region? I think it means opportunity. You know, what we're doing through this work is to try to create a roadmap for companies that are just outside the auto, sorry, just outside the defense sector so that they can access this market.

And we understand that the auto sector is one of those areas that provides this kind of opportunity. We have the largest auto parts and electronics manufacturing cluster in the country. And this provides a pretty significant source of companies that could potentially move into that space and grow based on what the federal government is looking to do. As Brendan mentioned, over $80 billion is in the pipeline. You don't have all the details yet, but it spells opportunity. And it feels like we're at a pivot point where, but a lot of us are, a lot of our whole are still holding our breath. You know, what's going to happen to the automotive industry?

you. And, you know, there's this push and this pull. There's this desire to keep the manufacturer, auto manufacturing jobs that we have. But a recognition that if Donald Trump gets his way, they'll all go the way of the dodo bird. They'll move south. And then we're going to have these, you know, a holiday industry, but, but an opportunity to pivot that into, say, you know, military manufacturing. So I guess we have to be prepared for everything, don't we, Jonathan? Oh, we do indeed. And that is where the understanding the capacity and capabilities of the companies in our communities becomes paramount. You know, we work with our local economic development peers. We work with organizations like the Trilium Network. And we work with the federal and provincial governments. It's an effort that we all have to be on together. This journey is not going to be quick. It will require us to be very, very resilient. And, you know, know, work together in a meaningful way to support the business community. And Brendan, you know, if I have one criticism over of this country over the past few years, it sometimes we get caught flat-footed, sometimes we don't plan, sometimes we're not part of the conversations that we need to be. And so we deal with the aftermath and the reaction and the consequences instead of being at the table.

It feels like what we're talking about today is York region being at the table during these pivotal conversations to ensure that when these tectonic shifts actually happen, York region is represented and the needs of the region are front and center. 100% and this is why we're doing this work in advance, right? So we have the ability to lay out the capabilities, the ability to tell prospective clients, to tell the government, these are the Canadian companies that you could be working with, that you should be working with and that can help us with this and that can, you know, help with economic growth and with building out our defense capabilities in the next few years.

Well, this is all good news. I thank you both. And just promise me that when the, when the rubber meets the road and these decisions get made, you guys will come back and lay it out as to why this is good news and what it's going to mean for York region. Thank you both very much, Jonathan Wheatel and Brendan Sweeney. Really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. Thank you so much. There are streaming services, and then there's Stack TV. What you want, when you want it.

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