The Ben Mulroney Show - Best of the Week Part 1 - David MacNaughton, Dilemma Panel, Regan Watts

Episode Date: February 1, 2025

Best of the Week Part 1 - David MacNaughton, Dilemma Panel, Regan Watts Guests: David MacNaughton, Ben Talks about Pierre's Plan, The Dilemma Panel, Regan Watts, Matt MacDonald If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Best of the Week podcast. We had so many great interviews this week, including a conversation with former Ambassador David McNaughton about the conversations happening behind closed doors with the U.S. Regan Watts joins me to discuss if Jugmeat is going to backpedal on his promise to vote non-confidence. Plus, the Dilemma panel was unbelievably good this week. Enjoy. Donald Trump has been, and will, it feels like forever, when he finds a microphone, attack Canada. He just did it again in front of the World Economic Forum, and it's got a lot of us asking why why I saw a graphic on TV that said Mexico 25 percent tariff potential tariff Canada 25 percent tariff China 10

percent tariff and I'm asking myself are we two and a half times the trouble China is to the United States it doesn't make any sense so to figure out why there's an out to figure out why there's, to figure out if there is a disconnect between what is being said publicly and what they're trying to achieve privately, we're joined now by David McNaughton, the former Canadian ambassador to the U.S.

Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, no problem, it's a pleasure. So you were the ambassador from 2016 to 2019, one of the most exciting times in Canadian U.S. recent history that led to significant achievements in trade. Yeah, it was quite the experience. I've got to tell you, people ask me about Trump and what's predictable, and the only thing that's predictable is unpredictability.

So it was quite the experience, I gotta tell you. So in your estimation, having witnessed him privately in a way that none of us have ever seen, what is the purpose of the public disrespect at this point? Is it a tactic or is it a deep-seated resentment because he feels that our leaders here have disrespected him? Where do you think it comes from? Well, I think it's I think it's a combination of things.

I mean, obviously, you know, he has said that his favorite word in the English language is tariff. And he thinks he can, you know, bully people into giving the US more favorable trade terms. He exaggerates clearly all the time. But I think what is really important to understand right now is that he is feeling so sort of chuffed and he's so full of himself because he, you know, won this great victory and the House and the Senate are both Republican, even if it's narrow victory. But all sorts of business people are running around trying to kiss the ring and tell them how wonderful he is.

And so his normal bravado is exacerb, is, is, is exacerbated. So what we've got to do is figure out what is it that we can do that will, I guess, feed the ego, if you will. Uh, but, but not do it to the detriment of Canada to do things that are actually things we should have been doing anyway, but that we can do and actually, uh, have him feel that,'s won, right? Yeah. Well, but I think a lot of us are sort of pulling out our hair because on the campaign trail, he was leveling some accusations that a lot of us thought, you know, he's actually getting this right. We do need to start paying

more attention to our military and to our borders. And I'm and and because we haven't been, I'm sure there are some issues over border security. Those were those were concerns that people like myself have had for years. And it did feel like our government was perhaps too late, but in the moment, starting to take those things seriously. And then he pivoted from that to a trade deficit. So I got to wonder if he doesn't have an actual problem, or if the problem keeps migrating to the next thing,

is his problem just Canada? Well, I don't really think so. I mean, I think in the first instance, what happened was that he was focused on Mexico in terms of the migration problem and also Fentanyl. And then I think probably somebody said, well, you can't just single out Mexico. You should say some of Canada too, because they're part of the problem. And then when I think we started pushing back publicly. I think he enjoys that. He enjoys sort of a boxing match.

And so my view on all of this, it's unfortunate our political situation is what it is, but we shouldn't be talking a lot about what we're gonna do. We should be just doing it and we should be having conversations with them in private and not trying to be boastful ourselves, because I think that just feeds him

into trying to do something more. So it's unfortunate. I'm in conversation with David McNaughton, the former Canadian ambassador to the US from 2016 to 2019. Ronald Reagan was known for a number of things, but he was known for having bold vision, big sweeping vision, and then he would hire the right people to help him enact those things. He was a macro visionary. And I've got to wonder having been in the room with Donald Trump, is I wouldn't compare him to Ronald Reagan, but is he the

same kind of guy? Does he have does he have these big visions about levying tariffs in order to exact behavioral change from his allies and enemies alike? And then he lets the details oriented people take over the negotiations? Is he present for a lot of this stuff as we as we're as we we're staring down the barrel at an existential threat? How much time is he actually spending on Canada? Well, I think in the first, when I was there in his first term, there's no question that he hired some of the top talent that you could possibly imagine, some very, very competent

people. I mean, Bob Lighthizer and I didn't always agree, but he was a very competent guy. H.R. McMaster was a great national security advisor. He had people top to bottom who were really first class. I think he's still got some around him. I mean, I think Mike Waltz is a good guy. I think that, you know, Burgum is good in the whole, that whole energy space. So I think there are some people to talk to. I think what's happening right now is there aren't, you know, a lot of people haven't been confirmed. He hasn't got his whole team in place. And so he's just sort of freelancing. Okay. And I just, I think we should just, you know, I can't remember which Blue Jay it was, but

when he accused to come to the plate, he used to always play, don't panic. And I think we should take a little advice for that. Lastly, Mr. Ambassador, I'm not going to ask you to make a political statement here, but I do want to get your take on Chrystia Freeland in that she may very well be the next leader who will be the Canadian counterpoint to Donald Trump. And depending on where you fall on the political spectrum,

you know that he has an antagonistic relationship with her. He doesn't like her. Now that could be a badge of honor or it could be a real problem. You were in the room with her. Is she the effective negotiator that could prove useful in a situation like this or is that animosity so great

that it could be more of a burden and a curse? Well, you know, I mean, I was in the room and dealt with Christian almost daily. I think our success in the first go-round and it'll be the same this time if we can do it, is that it was a team effort. I mean, we, you know, I remember one point, uh, Trump saying to me privately, uh, you know, I wish you would keep that nasty woman out of here. And I phoned her up and said, I don't know what you're doing, but keep it up because it's working, uh, but, but I'm not, you know, I, I, I don't think,

you know, it depends there, there are people that we're going to need to use effectively to deal with him. But the whole thing about what happened last time was everybody pulled together, the business community, labor, the provinces, the opposition parties. And unfortunately right now, we're more fractured than not. And so hopefully we can get over that over the next few months and be in a position where we can have a strong team, regardless of who the prime minister is,

it is gonna work effectively to do some things. But as I said at the outset, there's some things we should be doing on defense and security. And it's not just a matter of setting a target or anything else. It's like we've been talking about NORAD modernization for years. We need to do more to protect the new threats that have arisen and do more in the Arctic and do a whole series of things. And I think if we start doing things like that, we'll find that his attention will go elsewhere where he's going to have some big problems anyway. Ambassador, I want to thank you so much for adding to this conversation and we really

appreciate it. Have a great week. Okay. Thanks very much, Ben. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney show. A few days ago, Pierre Poliev sat for an interview with CTV News Atlantic and the knock on him by his opponents is, oh, he just likes to talk about how things are broken. He speaks in soundbites. He likes things that rhyme and he's really not that serious.

Well, he sat for a long interview where he detailed possible tariff responses, how he would respond, as well as his tax strategy. And I want to go through some of this interview because in my mind, a lot of what he says makes a lot of sense. Let's use ask point blank, how would you retaliate in the face of Donald Trump tariffs? Look, President Trump is a dealmaker. He wants to win. But we're both going to lose as Americans face of Donald Trump tariffs. bridled free trade with Canada. So I would retaliate and I would target products and services that A, we don't need, B, we can make ourselves, and C, that we can buy elsewhere so that we maximize impact on the Americans while minimizing impact on Canadians. So yeah, like that makes sense. Let's look at our balance sheet. What do we make? What are we good at? What do we need?

And then proceed accordingly. He talked about how we need to become more self-sufficient. Secondly, I would pass an emergency, bring it home tax cut on work, investment, making stuff in Canada, energy, home building, so that we can stimulate more economic growth here. Three, we need to become more self-sufficient. That means knocking down barriers,

more inter-provincial free trade. We have freer trade with the Americans today than we do with ourselves. We have to knock down those barriers, build pipelines, LNG liquefaction facilities to sell our stuff to the world without having to go through the Americans. If they're going to be an unreliable trade partner, we've got to find ways to sell more to ourselves

and more to the rest of the world. Look, he's looking at the state of play as it is. He's not creating some fantasy world that Canada is firing on all cylinders. And not every problem that we're dealing with today is a direct result of incompetence of this current government. A lot of it dates back generations. Interprovincial trade barriers are, it's just who we are. Canada's biggest problem is Canada. Somebody said that

on the show last week and I'm never going to unhear it because it's true. Somebody said that on the show last week and I'm never going to unhear it because it's true. We are our biggest impediment to our own growth. We hobble ourselves voluntarily. We self-flagellate constantly. We are the source of so many of our own problems. Throw Donald Trump into the mix and that's the status quo is untenable. And we just laid out there is, you know, show me where he's wrong. I know a lot of people have a knee jerk reaction that everything he does and

says is wrong. What did he say there that doesn't make sense to you? Because everything in what he just said makes a ton of sense to me. He goes on. He's quite optimistic, quite bullish on our future. You talk about self-reliance. Have successive governments in Canada over the decades of all stripes become too reliant, too comfortable with the notion that US will always be our biggest trade partner and they're always right there and we really we can put it on autopilot? Yes, we live next door to the biggest military and economic superpower the world has ever seen. So a lot of our economics have just been based

on enjoying basking in that glow, but we can't rely on it. And so, right now, according to stats can, we have about a 7% effective tariff on goods between provinces. And we remember the Como decision, some poor guy got fined because he brought alcohol from Northern New Brunswick. Yes, I think he was from Northern New Brunswick to Quebec. And we got to knock down those barriers.

We have to approve resource projects that allow us to get our stuff to market without going through the states. Right now we are importing oil from the Americans and the Saudis in the east at world prices, and we're selling it to the Americans at discounts in the west. These are problems of our own making. So many of them are problems of our own making. We've set ourselves up for failure. And when all of a sudden that one thing that you counted on forever says,

not so fast, hotshot, like you gotta wake up. We gotta grow up as a nation. And some people don't like his delivery. Some people don't like him personally. Some people think he's been in politics too long. Tell me where he's wrong here. And you don't have to like everything Pierre Poliev says or does, but he's beginning from,

he starts from a position of bullishness on Canada, a belief that we can get to a better place, a belief that we can be prosperous and strong and self-reliant and have the ability to have the ability and the revenue to care for all the people who need what they need in this country. You want us to be a generous country. You want us to feed the homeless. You want us to house people. You want us to take care of our hospitals and our education system. There's only one way to do that. You got to pay for it.

And we have the ability to pay for it. We have the natural resources and the intellectual know-how in this country to pay for that stuff many times over. There is a business case to be made for people on the left supporting Pierre Poliev because he will, I believe, unleash a wave of productivity in this country that will allow us to actually pay with actual money, not go into debt, not print money, but actually pay with real revenue, all the things that

matter to the left or some of the things because I suspect he doesn't want to pay for all of them. But tell me where he's wrong. And then of course, there's the repeal of one particular thing. the repeal of one particular thing would you if in government uh... change regulations or remove regulations to force pd approvals yes i will repeal the anti-development uh... liberal law c sixty nine under which it now takes an estimated nineteen years to get a mine approved

so here we are with the fifth biggest supply of lithium in the world. We don't mine lithium. We have the sixth biggest supply of natural gas on planet Earth. We don't export a single cubic foot of it overseas. We have the most uranium, the most potash. The list goes on. But because our laws are designed to block projects from proceeding, businesses don't put their money here. We've lost a half a trillion dollars in net investment from Canada to the U.S. This is Canadian money building mines, pipelines, business centers, factories,

with paying American workers with our money. I will bring it home. We will repeal C-69. My goal is to have the fastest permits for mines anywhere in the developed world. Yeah, again, we're fighting the world's greatest boxer in Donald Trump, having not trained for 10 years without wearing boxing gloves and with one hand tied behind our back and wearing a blindfold. That's where we are today.

And Pierre wants to start training immediately and he wants to unleash our potential. We are going to get creamed by this guy, creamed if the status quo is maintained. And there is a Canadian way to do this. Yes, the fastest, the fastest minds being built. But we can do so in an environmentally sensible way that protects the environment, that protects our natural resources, that protects them

for the next generation. But Justin Trudeau once said only an idiot would have what we have under the ground and not develop it. And then he didn't develop it. So what does that say about our prime minister? This is so frustrating because it's all here for the taking, for the development, for the betterment of not just Canada, but people around the world, because our values matter. Our values are as good as anyone's.

I would venture to say our values are the best and you cannot promote them around the world if you are stuck in a whole of your own making, of your own digging. And that's what we've done to ourselves. And so I like this vision for Canada. I'm sure there are gonna be things on which I disagree with Mr. Poliev,

but these are the broad strokes that get me excited about our future. And I have not been excited about our future for a very long time. We're currently living in a lost generation and I need a leader to help find our way. And I suspect that a lot of people are going to hear this. It's going to resonate with them. I think a lot of people are going to be inspired by this. Be really nice if we could test that theory in an election campaign, but that's for another day. Welcome to the Dilemma Panel. No question is too awkward.

No problem too petty. And no opinion goes unchallenged. Our panel of overthinkers is here to dissect, deliberate, and sometimes derail the conversation entirely. Grab your popcorn. This isn't just advice. It's a front row seat to life's most hilariously relatable train wrecks. Here's your host, Ben Mulrooney.

Welcome back. The Liberal Party has the dilemma of which leader to pick. Canada has the dilemma of how to deal with Donald Trump, but our listeners have their own dilemmas and we want to treat those with the same respect and attention and care and intention that we give to all the national dilemmas. And here to help me solve your dilemmas, Canada, I'm joined by Brad Smith, the host of The Big Bake on the Food Network, former host of Chopped Canada, and the very first bachelor on the Bachelor Canada,

and also former CFL player and fan of V-neck t-shirts. Not anymore. Oh, not anymore? No, no, no, no, Ben. An evolution, isn't it? Yeah, I think it was my first interview ever, I think, was with you. Yeah.

And you were like, you're not wearing a V-neck. And everyone was surprised. I'm like, no, no, no, you get dressed by someone on TV. I didn't choose all the clothing. It still haunts me. I'm also joined by Erin Burry, joined again by Erin Burry, the founder of Willful and Globe and Mail columnist.

Erin, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Ben. And I don't have an opinion on Vnext, just to clarify. Well, I want to let everybody know that if they want their questions answered next week, they can email us at askben at chorusent.com. That's askben at c-o-r-u-s-e-n-t dot com. Let's jump right into the first dilemma. Dear Ben, I was once engaged and it didn't work out for a bunch of reasons and I prefer not to

get into them. Anyway, that was four years ago and I'm with a new woman that I love very deeply. I'm thinking of proposing to her but I'm thinking of reusing the ring that I proposed to my former fiance with. It's a beautiful ring and I frankly spent too much money on it and you never get your value back when you try to resell it. My girlfriend knows about the other woman but not that I still have the engagement ring. Is it wrong to be thinking with my financial cap and wanting to propose to her? If I'm confronted about it I think I would lie because she wouldn't see the logic for reusing it. Would love to hear from your dilemma panel here.

Brad, you were in the pursuit of love in the public eye. What's, and at the end of the show, I can't remember how it ended, but was there a proposal at the end of the show? You know what, you try to escape this show for like the last 12 years, it just haunts you. No, no, but I'm leaning on you for the experience of it. First of all, the last part really threw me off that if he would come, like if his wife or future

wife would come to him with the idea he would lie to her, that's a red flag in itself. But I did get engaged on the show and this is the thing, it was sponsored by Takori. They gave us a ring that I could never afford in my entire life and on the contract, now that I don't have an NDA, it's a two years, if you guys last two years, post show, not post engagement, but post when the show airs, you get to keep the ring full out. We made it to 19 months total relationship, but one month less of the ring being ours. And it was six figures and above.

And we still walked away from it, because there's no value in the ring, especially for someone moving out. Yeah. That that ring is associated with something else. And this guy, like it, my fervent belief is, is that if you buy a ring and the woman is shocked or not impressed by the ring, then she's not for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause your intention was there in the first place. That's a good point. And it's bad juju, right? There's energy attached to the ring. There's memories. Yes. There's memories and you bought it

with one person in mind. And if you just decide, well, it's just a thing, then maybe you're not thinking about it right. But let's put the hat on the other head and let's ask Erin. Erin, if you were going to be receiving a ring and then you found out that it was a regift, what would you think?

Yeah, listen, I'm all for regifting my daughter's Christmas gifts for a toddler birthday party. But I think I draw the line at an engagement ring. However, we're in an era where we want to be more eco conscious and less consumerist. And so I love the spirit of this question, which is, I have this amazing thing, you know, how can I repurpose that? For me, I'm with Brad. I feel like there's two issues here. The first is that he said he would blatantly lie to his future fiance, which is a no-no. So let's just take that off the table and be honest. The second piece of it, I actually

wouldn't mind if someone regifted the stone. And so my suggestion to this person is go melt down the ring, keep the stones to your point that you're not going to resell it for as much and make that into a ring, add some things in and make it reflective of your new fiance's personality. I personally would be completely fine receiving a ring that has a reused stone and I would actually respect that, but I would not be okay with receiving that ring. Because usually when you buy it for your intended, it's reflective of what you know about them, their personality. And that's why I wouldn't want the regift, not because we don't want to reuse things, but because that ring doesn't reflect me. Yeah, Aaron, you make a really good point. You

could, you could, you could get a new band, you could beef it up with a few side stones. So just adding a little bit of, just changing the outlook on it. Well Ben, I'm sure there's a YouTube video which will teach you how to melt it down yourself. Repurpose it, recast it. You know, it'll be like the ring of Mordor. But without that connotation. But another thing that he could do

is he could turn the stones into a piece of jewelry for her and go buy a smaller ring and give her like a twofer. Or just take a hit on the net purchase of the ring and buy a new one and solve your own issue without lying. Because I think to Kip, Kip wrote this, Kip, it's the old adage and it rhymes because it's true, happy wife, happy life.

And if she finds out you lied to her and you lied about re-gifting the ring, I think she has every right to be. There is no statute of limitations on that lie. No. Yeah, that's a deal breaker. That's a deal breaker. Okay, here we go. Here's dilemma number two.

I'm type A and my husband is ADHD, AKA I knock things off my to-do list in a very organized fashion. I like to clean the kitchen immediately after dinner before I relax. Whereas my husband likes to sit and let things digest and clean later, which drives me nuts. I saw a TikTok video go viral about this the other week. Do you clean up right after dinner or later on? Or do you unpack right when you get home from a trip or a week later like

my husband lol? How do we keep the peace in a house where we have a very different approaches to chores and to-do lists? Erin, this resonates with me because I used to be very, very messy and I am the exact opposite now. The pendulum has swung completely in the other direction and I cannot take it when there's a mess. I can't stand it when there's a mess. So what happens when you've got one person who's the living embodiment of chaos and one person who cannot live unless they have order?

Well Ben, I'm actually here to learn from both of you on this because this is exactly the scenario in my own home. I am that person who immediately after dinner or any meal is cleaning up and I cannot sit down to relax until it's spotless. My husband is the opposite. He'll unpack his suitcases two weeks after a trip, his to-do list, there's a really nice grace period between something being added to it

and something being checked off. And actually the thing I think that's helped the most in our relationship is articulating the why, saying to him, hey, it's not about the fact that I care when you clean, but to me, mess and untidiness equals stress. And so for me coming out of a long day of work and then sitting down on the couch and seeing that massive mess, it makes me anxious.

It makes me stressed out. Whereas when it's cleaned up, I can truly relax. And when I shared kind of the motivation behind it and that it's not just me being a neat freak like Monica on Friends, he was able to then meet me in the middle, understanding that him doing that was more an investment in me not being as anxious. And to your point, Ben, happy wife. Brad, are you clean or the opposite? I'm glad you came to me second on this one because as someone who has ADHD diagnosed later in my life, so it's a dopamine response and people don't get that.

They think it's a personality trait of you choosing to be messy all the time. Whereas you're looking at the dishes after you've made dinner or eaten, and you're thinking about the value that you're gonna get from cleaning the dishes versus sitting on the couch in this question. And so the value for him sitting on the couch

is relaxing, recharging, not thinking about the mess because the dishes do nothing to spike him wanting to do the dishes. Yeah. So, I'm not a doctor, but I've been through this enough times to know, like, reordering your mind like you've done is so hard to do because it is a pleasure response, right? And you have to get through it and you have to do

these tasks. So she has to come at him in a way where she knows that this is not him choosing to be mean to her. Yeah. It's not him disregarding her feelings. It's just he doesn't process this in the same moment. But slowly, I mean, it sounds like she's doing it and Erin to her point as well.

If you work hard enough at opening the communications and realize it's not a him problem, but you gotta help me out, it'll slowly change. See, in our life, I really, I love, it's not that I must, I just love the act of cleaning after we've cooked in the kitchen. What's the reward system then for you? But I tell my wife, go upstairs and let me do this.

It makes me happy, right? So it's a caretaker response. Yeah, and my love language is acts of service. I love taking care of things. I love grocery shopping. I love cooking. I love keeping the kitchen or the bathroom clean. But I have this inability to go to bed.

I can let something be messy for a few minutes or a few hours, but by the time we go to bed, I need to know that everything is clean. And I view it as a gift when she lets me do those things. But again, to Erin's point, we've communicated those things. We've communicated those things. And also, you know, she's, listen, women have more stuff than men.

Oh, we're gonna, oh, it's the end of the segment. More Dilemma, next on The Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to The Ben Mulroney Show and welcome back to the Dilemma Panel. I'm joined today by Brad Smith and Erin Burry. Welcome back, both of you, thank you so much. Brad, how do you stay so trim when you eat so much food on TV? Well, that's a great question, Ozempic. No, both of you. Thank you so much. Brad, how do you stay so trim when you eat so much food on TV?

Wow, that's a great question. I was empathic. No, I'm kidding. To be honest with you, I have a hard diet off TV. When I shoot, I let myself go to the ninth degree. Just a quick anecdote on that. On Chopped, when I got the job, I was like 186. I was in shape. 36 days of eating and Lynn Crawford spoon feeding me right beside her every day. I was 202 by the time I left, I did, they did like close the buttons on

my shirt because it was so bad. Erin, do you, are you a, are you a like a, someone who watches those food shows? I have to admit Brad, I have a bachelor fan, but, or I was, uh, but I am not a food network person. Ben, I'm the opposite of you. I absolutely detest cooking, grocery shopping, meal planning, opposite of you. I absolutely detest cooking, grocery shopping, meal planning, any of that. So my dream is also that Lynn Crawford would come to my house

and feed me and my two toddlers dinner. But sadly, you know, but I also haven't put on 20 pounds due to that. So I feel like, you know, it's a good medium. Yeah. But you know what? You wasted 90 minutes of your week watching me and the worst thing that's ever been put on Canadian television. So you haven't seen some of the stuff I did. I'll never get that time back. You'll never. No, you haven't seen some of the Halloween specials we did on E! Talk.

Oh, no. I'm very aware of them. All right, back to the dilemmas. Here we go. I have been working. Dear Ben, let's start with that. Dear Ben, I have been working with someone in an office space that I've started to grow fond of.

He is quite kind, funny, and the type of person I could see myself being happy with. I happen to know he's interested in me as well. The problem is, I've tried the office romance thing before and it ended really badly, to the point one of us had to leave. Given we work in an office and see each other frequently, this worries me that it could end badly again. And I really like this job. Things being uncomfortable would be awful.

Do office romances ever work? What's a girl to do? Signed, Jane. And again, I'll go back to you, Brad. The whole point of you on TV was having a workplace romance. Yeah, but let's go to Erin on this one. Because it's a female question,

I wanna hear a female's perspective first because I might mansplain the bachelor on this one. That is a good point, Brad. Well, I mean, I don't know if I'm the authority to speak on this because my husband and I run our company Willful together. So I am fully, I mean, we were in a romance before it became an office romance, but, you know, we do work together every day. And I've knew lots of folks who have, you know, fell in love. My mom actually has been married to my stepdad for over 30 years and they met when they were working at Nortel together and sneaking peaks at each other in the office gym.

So I'm not anti-office romance. I will say in my first job back in 2007, I engaged in an office romance that was quite short-lived and I can tell you it was very awkward seeing that person at the water cooler every day. So Jane, here are my thoughts. Number one, it depends on whether you're in office versus virtual. If you're fully remote, like my company, you probably won't have to run into that person

too much and I'd be more apt to take the leap. If not, you better sit down and create some terms of reference for this relationship. What happens if it does not end amicably? Are you leaving the company or are they? How do you set out some rules around whether this goes really well? Great. If it doesn't go well, how are you going to

carry yourselves? And are you both on the same page about remaining professional, even when the personal is out of the picture? That's good. I mean, you, you described it perfectly. Yeah. And all it was very, it was very academic. It was very thought out.

Yeah, very thought out. It's almost like a conch. And completely agree. I was going to say before you even said it, Aaron, that you would have to create an exit plan before you even enter the strategy. But it's a prenup. But having my dad be... It's an office prenup.

Office prenup. But having my dad run a few companies and being, having been told some of the stories, yeah, they never end well. And the weird part is, is that it's a double-edged sword because you don't wanna dip your pen in company ink, but also you, like we work so much, our lives are so busy. So where are you really gonna meet people if your life is nine to five going home,

making food and then going to bed? That's what the apps are for. The apps, okay, Ben, I went on one for the first time in my life. I made it to 41 without going on one. First of all, you should and then going to bed. That's what the apps are for, I'm told. The apps, okay Ben, I went on one for the first time in my life. I made it to 41 without going on one. First of all, you should see the messages I get. That's a different thing. But second of all, they are awful.

It's like we're taking away the idiosyncrasies that make people great and posting the best with filters. Oh, it's worse than Instagram. Well, I would say to Jane, past is prologue. And if you had a bad experience in the past, you're probably gonna have a bad experience in the future. I had one office romance. It was during the summer.

I was working at Just For Laughs. I was flirting with this girl all summer long. We finally go out on a date. And I made the decision midway through the first date that the date was over because she was mean. She was so mean. And I was like, that's it. I can't stay here.

So I paid for dinner and I left. And I decided I was never gonna have another office romance in my life. You didn't get that backstage. No, now look it, I can't stay here. So I paid for dinner and I left and I decided I was never gonna have another office romance in my life. You didn't get that backstage. No, now look, well we worked in TV, attractive women everywhere. I had a policy when I was a host of Canadian Idol that I would not fraternize.

I wouldn't even talk to the interns because talking to them could lead to something else which could lead to something else. It's a slippery slope. And so I never ever ever ever ever ever dip my pen. And I have a colleague on one of the shows I worked on who dated another one of my colleagues on that same show I worked on.

I'm not giving you any more details than that. They had a torrid, torrid relationship, passionate relationship, and it ended as passionately. And we- You should have produced it. We all suffered in the office. There was this mood. Especially with TV people. There was this mood. Especially with TV people.

There was this mood change and it made things awful. So I would say if it didn't work out for you in the past, more than likely it won't work out in the future. So govern yourselves, govern yourself accordingly. We got time for a- Or you know what, Jane, maybe find a new job, you know? Apply for something new and you're not colleagues anymore. Exactly. It's free reign.

Or get him fired, better. Exactly. Yeah,. It's free range. Or get him fired. Better. Exactly. Just plant a story, get him fired, and then call him and be like, listen, we can do this now. This has been The Dilemma. Excellent advice.

Well, we have an audio dilemma from Martin. Let's listen to what Martin's dilemma is. Hi Ben, this is Martin from Shelburne. I've talked to you before. My dilemma is I've been a widower for two years. And at my age, it is so hard to meet people. And when you do meet them, they're not genuine. And it's really, really tough out there. Trying to meet someone just to have a dinner and go for

a walk. So put your thinking cap on and see what you can come up with. Martin, God love you. God love you. Aaron, let's start with you. What advice do you have for Martin? Oh, my goodness, Martin, I love you. God love you. Erin, let's start with you. What advice do you have for Martin? Oh, my goodness, Martin, I'm so sorry for your loss, first of all. You know, my company is online estate planning. So I actually speak with a lot of widows. So you put the right person on the panel for this. I actually interviewed a wonderful young widow last year named Julia,

and she faced the same challenge. Her husband passed away when she was a new mom, and she was really missing that human connection. And to your point, Brad, I've faced the same challenge. Her husband passed away when she was a new mom and she was really missing that human connection. And to your point, Brad, I've heard the same thing, although I've not been on them. The apps are kind of a cesspool. But Julia actually took it matters into her own hands. She founded a community called widowsfire.com and it is a website specifically,

a community for widows and widowers. And not just for love connections, for just companionship and connection with people who have been through the same thing. So my advice would be check out Widows Fire, make a profile, make some connections, whether for friendship or for more. And I think that would be a great starting point, Martin. Yeah. I can't say anything better than that, except for just hearing Martin's voice. Oh my God, it's heartbreaking.

The guy sounds as genuine. Like, when he leads with, they're not genuine, and you hear his voice. The genuine connection, I mean, it makes me miss that I didn't grow up with my grandfather's, because that old sound, like wisdom voice, just resonates. So I don't think he's going to have a problem finding anyone. It's just, at that age, it's getting yourself out there. And knowing where to go.

Like to Martin, I would say lead with who you are because it came through. It came through in 20 seconds on this show. And I would say, you know, there are there are groups out there, there's organizations, there are clubs that you can join. So take advantage. I mean, it could be a walking club. I would go online not to find someone online, but to find a club or a group or some group that comes together at a coffee shop where you can have a human in real life connection

where it's, maybe there's a walking group. You said you want to go for walks. Here's my suggestion. You go on Instagram, get your granddaughter or whatever you have access to, and you put a minute long reel together of that and Martin together, it's going to go viral and someone's going to find Martin. Yeah, but Martin, you know, he's going to find them the producers for the Golden Bachelor. Is this Golden Bachelor? Oh gosh, Martin, you know, no, no, you can't take

away my job. I'm only four or five years away from that. Hey guys, this has been so much fun. I'm only four or five years away from that. Hey guys, this has been so much fun. I hope, I hope, Erin, you'll come into the studio and we can do this in person one day, because it's been a lot of fun. Would love to, thanks for having me. And Brad, I gotta say, you're more than welcome anytime. I think that's been so,

we haven't seen each other in a really long time. Yes, but I wanna say this, to all the people that are listening to Ben, maybe for the first time, this is a guy who I went into the industry and we were doing the exact same job and you had every right to treat me any way you wanted and you've been nothing but nice to me. You were honestly one of the first guys to invite me out to things. So I'm so happy for all that you've done and where you've ended up and you're kicking butt on the show.

Well, thank you, brother. I mean, I did tell producers if he steps out of line. Smack him. Sometimes I hate being right. Sometimes I hate being so... Sometimes I hate having the ability to peer around the corner of history. But it's my burden in life, Canada. And yesterday I was speaking with opposition house leader Andrew Scheer about the potential of Jagmeet Singh, even though he's ripped up his agreement, he's ripped up his agreement with the liberals, even though it's

gone, it's dead, it's DOA, there's still a chance that he could work with them, and we might not go to the polls until October. This is what, let's listen to what I had to say. So here's my fear is the this becomes some version of a national emergency. And the Trudeau government in an effort to get something like this through does a deal with the NDP and says, Listen, we're gonna we're willing to spend a lot of money here, and we're gonna need your help. And Jagmeet is able to use that as cover to vote for this vote in lockstep with the government yet again. And we may not see ourselves go to the polls until

October. Yeah, so that was my prediction yesterday. I believe Andrew Scheer said, well, that I hope that doesn't happen. And just a few hours later, Jagmeet Singh found himself in front of a microphone. Here's what he had to say. I'll just start off by the fact that I've spoken with a lot of workers who are deeply worried about what the Trump terrorists might mean. They say, you know, I will sometimes I lay awake at night saying if that terror goes through, do I lose my job and what's going to happen to my kids? What's going to happen to my family?

And we think about the analysis is out there. If those Trump terrorists come in place, there are hundreds and thousands of Canadian jobs at risk. Think about what that means for those workers, hundreds of thousands of workers, for their families, for those communities. This could be devastating for our country.

So we do need to have a plan in place to support those that are impacted, those businesses, those workers most importantly. I have not had any conversations with other opposition leaders. I think we need to come together to have a discussion about what is the best way forward. I've not had any discussions with the government related to this. If there is any desire to move forward, the government should call us together, like we did during COVID, and discuss a plan that supports workers. Now, he swears he's still going to vote non-confidence, but boy oh boy does it feel like he's opened the door. Opened the door just a little bit to the potential to delay the election.

Joining me to discuss is Regan Watts, the founder of Fratton Park, Inc. as well as a former senior aide to the Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty. Regan, what say you? Morning, Ben. I mean, there's so much that Henby said. The Conservatives, and I think they're right, used the line that Jagmeet Singh is a fellout and he prefers his life of luxury more than he prefers to do the work of the people. And I think they're onto something with that. The idea that somehow it is appropriate for Jagmeet Singh and the NDP and the liberals to cut backroom deals that envision spending and this is these aren't my words. These are words that have been leaked

to the global mail. The liberals are planning a aid package in response to the Trump tariffs that is the size of the COVID package that they released during the pandemic. And at least during the pandemic, we could debate those ideas and the merits of the public policy in parliament. And instead we have Jagmeet Singh and the liberals who are clearly talking behind the scenes, clearly having backroom conversations, and Parliament is where this should happen.

It is not responsible to suggest a backroom deal like he has suggested. He's saying the opposition parties need to come together with the government. That's not appropriate. What the government should do is recall Parliament and put these ideas on the floor of the House of Commons and have them debated. Because the Liberals prorogued, we still have seven weeks from today before that can happen. And so we're in a bit of a mess, not least of which is induced by Justin Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh,

but also the Trump terrorists. Yeah, Regan, about six or eight months ago, I started banging the drum that the liberals, the NDP, and to a certain extent the Bloc Québecois, because they were so far behind in the polls, were playing keep away with your right to hold them to account at the ballot box. And it was the only party that wasn't afraid of the democratic exercise of people going to the polls and voting were the conservatives. But there's an argument that could be made that, hey, listen, they formed a deal. It's within the rules. You might not like it, but it is within the rules.

What's going on here with the leadership race, with the proroguing of parliament, with this looming tariff threat that feels like it could be used as some sort of, like I said, national emergency to justify some backroom deal, feels like the most anti democratic thing that I can remember. Well, it's not only anti democratic, it's a betrayal of Jagmeet Singh

to his party members into Canadians. You know, you mentioned six months ago, Ben, you seen the writing on the wall. Well, it was eight months ago that remember, Jagmeet Singh made that grand display of tearing up the agreement with the liberals. So they don't even have a deal, or at least on paper. This continues to be a bad breakup. I mean, I've had some bad breakups. This is the worst I have ever seen. And he seems to be a glutton for punishment and seems to enjoy being used by the liberals.

And one thing that I think needs to be raised, not just by you Ben as a media host, but all Canadian media is, well, what do Mark Carney and Christopher Freeland think about the idea of pandemic level spending? What do Mark Carney and Christopher Freeland think about cutting deals with Jagmeet Singh? Is it going to be more of the same?

I share your view Ben that we're unlikely to go to election until October. I think Jagmeet Singh is Is it going to be more of the same? I share your view Ben that we're unlikely to go to election until October. I think Jagmeet Singh is always going to choose his life as leader of the third party and being driven around in his Maserati and the life of luxury that he leads rather than go to an election. But we have a liberal leadership on right now and in eight weeks we will have a new prime minister and the two leading front runners for that party have said nothing about what you know, they might do or not do with the NDP. And Jagmeet is doing his very best to let them know he despite being upset with Justin, he's still available and ready to have a conversation and and get into an arrangement. Yeah, it's the absurdity of having an unelected

prime minister leading a government that is not sitting in the House of Commons and a third party leader holding the balance of power that could then unleash unprecedented levels of spending that haven't been authorized by a vote in the House of Commons. Yeah, I can't believe this is a scenario that is not only plausible, but looking increasingly

possible. Well, Ben, Mark Carney, let's just assume for the sake of this argument that Mark Carney becomes the leader of the Liberal Party. And I think that is the likely scenario because you can see just on the basis of the number of cabinet ministers supporting him and not Freeland, you can tell that Krista Freeland wasn't very well liked by her colleagues and her peers. So let's assume Mark Carney is the Prime Minister after this leadership. He has a major choice to make.

Does he do a deal with the NDP and govern for six months or a year and show Canadians what he has as Prime Minister? Or does he chart a different course for the Liberal Party? And we know Jagmeet Singh is thirsty for power and thirsty to vote in election. Where is Mark Carney sitting on this? He has not answered a question on whether or not he would enter into a coalition. He has not done a single media availability,

which I think is strange because Mark Carney is eminently qualified to manage the G7 economy. He's a very smart man, he's very well educated, and he has very good experience. But this is politics, and politics is about accountability to the people. Jagmeet Singh has shown that he's willing to not be accountable to the

people by doing backroom deals. But where is Mark Kearney on this? And you know, the NDP, they flip and flop like a coin or a dead fish on the on the beach. They've received no benefit for helping the liberals, none. They remain mired in, you know, the high teens in the polls. They have no money in the bank. So it shouldn't surprise anybody that they're not ready for an election. And so there's some very real serious questions that should be debated on the floor of the House of Commons. And at minimum, Mark Carney, Mr. Carney should be should be asked and host a meeting availability at some of these very real questions which you raised. Well, yeah, I gotta say we have been putting out the call

daily to Mark Carney and his team asking if he would come in and answer some questions. Thus far, we have been, I don't have given the run around. He's very, very busy, we're told. But I respectfully put it out into the universe. I'm manifesting this. We welcome Mr. Carney to come sit down with us on the Ben Mulroney show at any point. We welcome him and we would ask him good faith questions.

And and hopefully he would give us good faith answers. Regan, always appreciate the honest conversation. Great to talk to you again. Great to be with you. Thanks, Ben. Food insecurity and the affordability crisis are brought into even more stark relief with the backdrop of the uncertainty of what's going to happen to our economy were we to be levied 25% tariffs by Donald Trump. And so joining us to discuss the cost of living, the cost of food, and the implications of going to the grocery store.

Today, tomorrow, and in the coming weeks is Matt McDonald, national leader of the food and beverage processing for MNP. Matt, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thanks, Ben, for having me. Great to be here. So there's a lot of reasons why our food costs what it costs, inflation, the carbon tax, you name it. Well, the Metro CEO of Metro grocery store says that the weak loony is putting pressure on

food costs. Yeah, well, I mean, I think there's a bunch of things that are putting pressure on food, food costs. And the reality is, is that when the loonie was stronger, we still had pressure on food costs. So I think it's one of the factors for sure. I wish more people were as passionate about this, just listening to you talk,

because I think that we could actually bring about some change. The agri-food industry in Canada represents $140 billion in climbing, you know, just under 9% of our GDP. So it's a big area of the economy and it's something that affects, you know, you and I and everyone that puts food on our table. I think what we've done in publishing this report is trying to show more light on how it affects the everyday Canadian and how external threats like what Trump is threatening with these tariffs, they just shouldn't be as

effective if we had stronger food security and a stronger gate to gate solution from our primary producers and our farmers all the way to our large retailers. Yeah, so Matt, tell me, what is the state of play on the ground today and how can we improve it so we're not at the mercy of so many influences? Well, I think, and again, we highlighted this in the report, Canada has one of the most dynamic and best in class agriculture environments and communities in the world.

And so why would we be lagging behind in our production? And there's a bunch of reasons, one being under investment, right? We need to attract more government and policy investment, more capital from the private markets, and just create a more entrepreneurial market-friendly environment for our kind of everyday Joe on the street to start a business

and to build into something successful. And I think one of the things that we highlighted in the report that it jumps out to me the most is we're giving away a lot of real dollars to other countries in that processing, right? We're allowing, we're pulling the goods off of our land and we're shipping it externally instead of processing it here and selling it here. And that's where our next story takes us because in reaction to these tariffs, there is a movement by politicians and advocates for Canadians to quote unquote, by Canadian. And that's harder to do than than one would think

because, you know, it might be a Canadian company, it might be a Canadian product, but we might have to ship it offshore before it comes back, in which case it may get it may get hit with a tariff. That's right. And really, you know, one of the things that we tell clients, and I think the everyday, you know, grocery shopper can relate to this is we all go to the grocery store and we see something like pineapple that's cut up in a plastic container. And that's what that's what value add would be. You can buy a pineapple hole or we can cut it up and sell it to you in a plastic container. And that's when I say, when I talk about value add, why are we selling the pineapple?

I don't think we grow a lot of pineapples here in Canada, but why are we selling the pineapple to other countries, having them cut it up and put it in plastic and then ship it back and sell it to us? That's what we want to advocate for, for more competition and more transparency, and more just real dollars going into that middle market. And I think that's where some of the other countries have over invested in automation and things that drive, you know, innovation and jobs for that mid market. Yeah, yeah. But the Ontario Premier, Doug Ford suggested, I believe last week, you know, if you're at the grocery store and you see a product, maybe take a take a second or two to look to the

left or look to the right and purchase the Canadian version of that product. It may cost a few more cents, but it's going to help us in the long run. But not every product that we see on the grocery stores has a Canadian analog. That's right. That's right. And I think, you know, I think that each consumer needs to make their own decision for their own buying patterns. But definitely if there are opportunities to buy local and buy Canadian, the reality is that that's what the messaging from our

southern neighbors is being suggested in the reverse, right? And I think what I wanna advocate for and what we as M&P kind of stand before in that mid market is how can we help Canadian businesses to fill those gaps? So there are opportunities. So if you do see a hole, go take a risk, start a business, fill the hole. And that's what we wanna try to advocate and build confidence in our local and domestic economy

to say there's opportunity here to be a processor and to drive change domestically. And we need to do that. So where do you at MNP see those opportunities? Where are those holes that Canadians could jump into and fill? Well, on a product side, I think that we have a we have, as I said, we have a we have a very dynamic and growing agriculture business. And so, you know, we see a lot of companies that are gaining a lot of traction from the kind of that better for you space where we're looking at alternative proteins and, you know, ways that we can build healthy snacks, the baked goods section.

And there are a lot of gaps where US players are coming in. And it's funny because you're seeing US players coming in and you see US players going out because doing business in Canada is not the same as doing business in the United States, not only from a taste and kind of what works in the market perspective, but our geography is a lot different.

And that's where I think we have a competitive advantage that we know what it takes to do business in Canada, we're Canadians and we're up to the challenge, but we need to rise to the opportunity. And if and when these tariffs hit, assuming it's as bad as we think it's gonna be across the board 25%, how quickly are we going to are we going to see the impact of them on our pocketbooks when we go to the grocery store? I think I think potentially immediately, right? You know, the challenge is

when you're you're you're kind of shadow boxing, you're trying to guess, where is this tariff? Where's that? And the things that we've said to our clients is, I wanna stick with, what are the definitive barriers that are in front of us? It's hard enough to run a business today. I don't wanna deal with a montage of what ifs. And so you should be running your business in a way that says if an external threat comes in these are the contingency plans and so one of the

things that we've done as M&P is to help our clients come up with sensitivity analysis and how do we pivot? Mark, Matt we're gonna have to leave it there but thank you so much I appreciate it. Okay thank you so much Ben. Thanks for listening to the Ben Mulroney Show podcast. We're live every day nationwide on the Chorus Radio Network and you can listen online through the Radio Canada player and the iHeart Radio Canada apps.

And make sure to follow and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your streaming audio. We release new podcasts every day. Thanks for listening. We're the most important stories from around the world. We are here in Jerusalem, we just heard the siren. For many people, the worst days of this disaster Thanks for listening. A rail strike could cost this one Southern Alberta farm as much as a million dollars. The award-winning Global National with Donna Friesen.