The Ben Mulroney Show - Best of the Week Part 1 - Regan Watts, Chris Chapin, Michael Higgins

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

Best of the Week Part 1 - Regan Watts, Chris Chapin, Michael Higgins Guests: Regan Watts, Chris Chapin, Michael Higgins, Tony Chapman, Kevin Klein If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, flights on Air Canada. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Um, Amsterdam. Tulip Festival. I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice. Or Bermuda has carnaval. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague?

Oh, right. Prague. Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada. Nice travels. Great to have you here. It is Alex. Here's something for Mr. Ben Mulrooney. Lots to talk about. We are just one week away. One week away today, we head to the polls,

unless you were one of the two million out on Friday. And I guess we'll get a couple of more million over the next couple of well up until tonight at nine o'clock and that's when advance polls close record numbers we got big big interest in this election we should absolutely because it's important right Pierre-Paulie even Scarborough today making an announcement he'll be spending a lot of time in the 905 and the 416 sign trying to shore up areas where he thinks he can win a seat. He's promising 2.3 million homes that will be built over the next four years. Right? He did say today the platform will be released tomorrow. It cost it out.

These are things I wish we could get beforehand by all the players. But he's certainly taking shots at at Kearney today. Maybe we'll be taking shots at Polieff tomorrow but today we have to take at at Kearney today. And maybe we'll be taking shots at Polieff tomorrow. But today we have to take shots at Kearney because he came out on the weekend. And you would have to wonder who wrote the platform. Was it Justin Trudeau or the guy who runs, you know, is a banking governor? Because when you find he adds a quarter trillion dollars to the national debt, you got to ask some questions. So that is what we will do.

So let us bring in someone who knows an awful lot about this. Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park, Inc. but also a former senior aide to the late Minister of Finance, Mr. Jim Flaherty. Great to have you Regan. Morning Alex, great to be back. All right let's just talk a little bit about what we should be talking about. I think information that probably would have been good for voters to know Before they went to the advance polls, but this hundred and thirty billion in new spending deficits until 2029 And really I mean how many times we get promised, you know new spending and and now they're calling it investment But also that it'll get you know paid off and then we never get an end date

Well, and I've said this on this on this show before Alex, and I've said it when you and I have talked over the years, you know, economists know there is no such thing as a free lunch and Mr. Carney himself is an economist and he knows that when he quote-unquote invests more for Canada, it means that you and your children and your grandchildren are gonna be picking up the tab. And there is a sense that this is not fairness

for Canadians, which I think is why we need a change in Ottawa. The Liberal Party has released a platform and I think that's a good thing. I agree with you, the timing is unfortunate given how far along we are in advance polls. I believe the conservatives are releasing their platform

tomorrow if my sources are correct. But I think the timing of platforms is just a function of modern campaigns. Although I would say the difference between Mr. Poliev's platform and Mr. Carney's platform is Mr. Poliev has put out far more detail in his announcements up to today than Mr. Carney's platform is Mr. Proliev has put out far more detail in his announcements up to today than Mr. Carney has.

And so, you know, we have a little platform that is asking for more money, more deficits, more debt, more unicorns and lollipops that our children and our grandchildren are gonna pay off down the road. And for me, that's not the right path for Canada, the right plan for Canada, but we are where we are. Well, we are where we are

because we've allowed ourselves to get there. And I think I was more surprised that they actually admitted they were going to do this. Like it's clear that Mark Carney didn't come into the campaign with much to run on, obviously. He came in about a month and a half ago. So most of the ideas that he hasn't taken from Paul Yev will be ideas that were liberals and as much on CBC

this week. And I mean, this is a budget that was written by the Trudeau government, and they just basically tweaked areas. And that's what they've said. And it looks like it. So if I'm coming in and trying to sell change, what I'm not doing is spending $130 billion, I think more surprised I though is reading that they admitted they were doing this. Yeah, look, I, Alex, I completely agree. That won't surprise you or your listeners. Here's the thing though, you

know, this stage of the game, when they've released the platform, you know, we had record turnout this weekend for advanced polls, and you alluded to this into your intro, something like 2 million Canadians have already cast their ballots. Just Friday. You know, the liberal Just Friday. Well, um, something like 2 million Canadians have already cast their ballots. Just the liberal, well, yeah. Yeah, no, it'll be more than that. Monday.

Right. It's so people will have, you know, the direction of this election will have been settled, uh, certainly by the end of today, which is why you see parties investing as much as they are in, in get out the vote campaigns and getting people to the polls. And so I do think it's a bit of an affront to democracy for parties to wait this late in the game to release the platforms. And by the way, the conservative party, I feel, should have released a platform a bit sooner for the same reason. You know, so we're asking people to to vote on something or vote on a party or vote on a local candidate without knowing what the plan is. But the idea that we can continue to spend and get more as we did over the last 10 years with Justin

Trudeau is crazy. And you know, as I say, Mr. Carney is an economist, he knows that there's no such thing as a free lunch. The problem is, Alex, it's our kids and our grandkids are going to be picking up that tab. Right. So when you give them the finger on the campaign trail, when you're going to vote, I mean, you know, the boomers should be careful about doing that, right? Because if I'm if I'm one of those people that voted liberal, and I thought, okay, I know what I'm doing. And I'm looking today, I'm thinking, Oh, my God, they are the same government. It's too late. You've already voted for that, right? It's, again, that's why there's so much anger from people as they see the same MPs, the same advisors, the same people around this team, and it's not so different. And then you see,

well, they haven't changed anything because they're just going to keep spending. And so, when people see these kinds of things, it does take a hit against Mark Carney, but it is only a five-week campaign. We're in the last week of this thing. And so how do you turn this around? Like, will it have an impact on, you know, towards next Monday? Well, Canadians were delighted in January when the long national nightmare known as Justin Trudeau decided he was going to step down. The reality is though, at Alex, at this point, the Liberal Party and their Liberal plan under Mr. Carney is the same as it is under Mr. Trudeau. We talked about all the same players, but the Liberals even admitted

this was the same type of policy platform they were going to run with the previous leader in place. So to your question about how to turn this around, look, I think there's a number of polls that show some variances. The Main Street, I would note, had the Conservative Party up by a few. Nick Manos is a pollster who I respect, had the conservative party up by a few. Nick Manos is a pollster who I respect, has the liberals up by a few. You know, turning this around really comes down to the ground game and getting your voters out. Conservatives consistently, and your listeners will know this, that conservatives consistently

poll lower in the polls than how they perform on election day. And so for your listeners, just to keep in mind, if you see a poll where the liberals are up by two or three, well, it actually means where the conservatives are tied. Because conservative voters, you know, anywhere between one to three points come out on election day and show up. And so to, you know, to close the gap at the liberals, certain voters have to get out and vote. Today, advanced polls close at nine. But of course, on election day, if you can't get on advanced polls, that's the way this thing turns around. However, my analytical hat, Alex says that this election is almost baked and the turkey's

in the oven, so to speak. And we're at that point in the baking process where there's very little that's going to be done to change the trajectory that's in place, in my view. It can be really, really dry and or it can come out really undercooked. It can go really bad, that turkey cooking. And so you in your mind, you know, where are we headed as do you see this as advanced vote? Because normally we would say that goes to the conservatives. To me, it's too hard to understand who the electorate is going out this early. To me, it's too hard to understand who the electorate is going out this early.

Yeah, look, I think anybody who proclaims they can understand what the advanced vote means in this election is grasping at straws. And I guess, depending on your perspective, those will either be paper or plastic straws. I think because it was a holiday, Alex, that people got out and voted. I think it's a great argument for making election day

in this country a national holiday. I think turnout is something that we need to do collectively as a society to change. We had a lot of men and women die in many wars defending our country, and the most basic way we can honor their sacrifice is doing our civic duty and showing up and voting. And so I think that it's hard. I'm scrambling a little bit here, Alex, because I'm not sure what the advanced polls mean. It couldn't mean everything and it could mean nothing. But I suspect we won't know until, say,

later this week in public opinion polls, the public opinion polls, what advanced polling means and what impact the debates had on the final outcome. But as I said earlier, I think this turkey's already set. It's just a matter of waiting for this election to finish and it'll come out of the oven. All right. Could be a sour taste, dour taste, or food poisoning, depending on how you like your turkey done. But I appreciate it. We'll see next week. Appreciate it. Thanks, Alex. Take care.

That's Regan Watts joining us. And of course, he used to work for the late finance minister, Jim Flaherty. And again, if Mark Carney is going to come in and sell himself as a fiscal steward, then how on earth do you then explain all this new spending that we can't afford? I'm Alex Pearson, in for Mr. Ben Mulroney. It's great to have you here on this Monday. I think a lot of people had a nice extra day off, which I think everybody can use,

so enjoy that. Lots going on, certainly in the political world. So let's bring in Mr. Chris Chapin to break stuff down. He, of course, is a political commentator, managing principal over at UpStream Strategy. Hope you had a great weekend. Had a great weekend. Hope for you too, Alex.

I bet you love that Leaf game, right? Made it all worth it. I am not the biggest Leafs fan, so I often this time of year cheer against them, so I'm happy for Leafs fans. It was quite the game last time. We'll give them a win. We'll give them anything that they can get. Coming out today, I guess Pierre Pollyer

putting housing in the window again. He announced the building of 2.3 million homes over the next five years and panning Mark Carney's report saying it's like a fantasy. I'm not really sure why the federal government is in the housing business now, Chris, but they are. Is this gonna make much of a difference, do you think, ultimately, down the road?

I don't think so. I just don't think this election's about housing anymore. I think it's really shifted to other, I think if you're a conservative voter, it's cost of living and affordability. And if you're a liberal voter, it's about Canada's sovereignty and who's best positioned to respond to Trump. So I think housing has been a very challenging topic at all levels of government for anybody to really own because I'm not sure any voters really believe any of the parties can do much differently than one another.

And we really shouldn't. They don't deserve the trust. I mean, the city, everyone's made it so difficult in this country that it's also one of those promises, Chris, it'll take years to get. So it's not like it's going to, you're going to vote and wake up on Tuesday to a set of house keys, right? To a nice detached home in the suburbs. No, it's just not going to happen. And so I think I wouldn't be wasting too much time on housing because I just don't believe any voters really think anybody can do anything differently on it. Yeah. Well, look, people must believe in something because a couple of million people came out on Good Friday and they skipped over church, but they went out to vote and that's the advanced polls. Now that's the one-day record. We don't know what the record will be for the four days that the voting polls were

open. They're open till nine o'clock tonight. But what is it? Does it tell you anything this time? I mean are you looking and reading these numbers? No, I mean I think it'll be interesting to see what the four-day total is. I think there's certainly something to be said that if you put election day on a day where a lot of people have it off if you put election day on a day where a lot of people have it off, or an advanced voting day on a day when people aren't at work, it makes it a lot easier to go spend 20 minutes in line and go vote. So I don't know if that 2 million number comes, but if we see, you know, that number replicated over all three days,

Saturday, Sunday and today, Alex, then yeah, I think we're certainly shifting towards a high voter turnout election. I don't think that's really a surprise. We've seen really high voter turnout in what I would call real change elections. I think there's no question that this is a change election. I wouldn't say Trudeau versus Scheer or Trudeau versus O'Toole really had that feeling to it the same way Carney versus Poliev does. And so I think liberals are excited to vote.

I think conservatives are very excited to vote. And so I do think we'll see high voter turnout in this election. It would be very interesting to see though if that number is replicated over the weekend. Yeah, no question about it. And so, you know, it is really get out the vote, right? This is something that is crucial to get like, it's great that you go on TikTok. It's great that you go to the rallies. It's great that you put your elbows out, but you got to go to the polls, right?

In your mind and given how many campaigns you've worked on in these days where, you know, polls are kind of baked in and it looks like Carney's, you know, going to take this thing. What's going on behind the scenes? I mean, there's still quite a bit of runway, but most people look at this thing as it's, it's already decided. Yeah. I mean, what's happening behind the scenes? I mean, there's still quite a bit of runway, but most people look at this thing as it's already decided. Yeah, I mean, what's happening behind the scenes? I mean, you're trying to do everything you can to mobilize your base, right?

I think that was, I think some people were panning Pauli's announcement over the weekend on the single use plastics, but I thought it was actually a pretty smart tactic. If you were a conservative voter and that's something that just kicks you off, a good reminder, it might be a reminder to stay in that line a little longer over the weekend, even though you'd rather get back home and sit on the couch to go out and vote. And so I think

what you'll see is, I mean, I've already seen, you know, some door knockers and door hangers out reminding people that the advance polls are open. That's really all it is at this stage. It's all that work you've put into identifying who said they're going to vote for you, getting to their door and calling them and reminding them to vote, telling them where to vote and offering them a ride to the polls. Yeah, yeah, it's such a small thing. But really, like people constantly, I'm sure they ask you, what are we going to do, Alex? What can we do? And I'm like, get off your butt and go help knock on doors or go help to drive people to the voting booth. If you really want to help and you're worried about the results like get off your butt and go help knock on doors or go help to drive people to the voting booth if you really want to help and you're worried about the results get off your butt and do something. It's exactly that Alex. I think

people think it's a much more complicated science than it really is. It's you know do you know if your neighbor's gonna vote and do you know if your neighbor has voted it is you gonna vote for the same person you wanted you voted for right and if the answer to some of those is no, they haven't, but yes, they're going to, it's reminding them to vote. And you know, every vote does truly count as cliche as that sounds. And so if you can get 10 more votes out than your opponent, maybe you win. And if you can get a hundred more votes out, you've got a better chance. And if you can get a thousand, even better. So it really just comes down to what we call

the ground game at this point. It's finding the voters that you think are going to vote for you and then getting them to vote and getting them and everybody in their household to vote and trying to find and shake loose as many votes as possible, especially allocating all your resources to the ridings that you think are the closest. Yeah. And it can come down sometimes to like a handful of votes. So there's that too. It can be very, very close. So to your point on the plastic straw announcement, I mean, it's a very populist-y kind of thing to do. But I sort of got it. It's like six months ago, as I collected my 9,000th thick plastic bag,

because I don't walk around with them, I said, I will vote for the person who gets rid of these damn things. And lo and behold, he's saying he'll get rid of them. That's a popular thing, right? People hate the band. you either love the band on plastic or you hate it absolutely I mean it's a textbook kind of populist policy you know I would argue the liberal policy in the first point first place didn't really achieve anything because we're all just throwing out these really reusable bags and and everybody gets angry when they get a paper straw. Is that really going to be a number one voting topic for most voters?

Probably not, but I think you and I are probably going to cast a ballot for the same party and I was happy to see it because it drives me nuts. I got side-eye from my wife last night when I came back from the grocery store with yet another reusable bag because I forgot to take one with me and paid 35 cents for it. So I think it's one of those things. It's just a great motivator policy. And I think, you know, for those that were going to vote for, for Poliev and the Conservatives, even another reason to make sure you go out and cast your ballots with them. Yeah, I will say it's better that that bag beats the paper bag they give you at the hardware

store where everything falls out because it's so heavy to carry in a paper bag. But here's the thing, you know, Polyev's out there and he's talking about he's going to cut the consulting fees by 10 billion. I mean, this is one of those things, Chris, where we have such a huge public service, we pay them to do a job, and then they go and spend 18, 19 billion more on these high-price consultants. And so there are savings there, right? 10 billion a year, but again, we don't have the cost of platform for Poliev. I wish it were out sooner, but will that do the job? I think it might. I don't think any voter truly believes that there aren't efficiencies to be found in government. I think I saw it sounds like they're going to release their platform

tomorrow. So, you know, I hope that's not too little too late or just give the opposition, you know, three or four days to just hammer them on it and not get their side of the story out. I, but you know, I'll leave that to the team up in Ottawa that's, you know, making these calls. But I, again, I think anybody that's seen government at this point, I think has almost become cynical knowing that there's so much waste and blow in the bureaucracy. So I think anybody that's seen government at this point, I think, has almost become cynical knowing that there's so much waste and bloat in the bureaucracy. So I think him coming out and putting a number on what he's going to cut isn't going to surprise most voters. Albeit, and before I let you go, Chris, the fact is we learned 130 billion in new spending

by the Carney government. I think if some of those people that did advance polling would have probably liked to have known that before. Like I don't know how granny and grandpa are going to feel knowing that they just left the kids with a whole new whack of spending. Well, I suppose I'd say I don't think granny and gramps have seemed to care for the last 10 years of what they leave their kids behind

in terms of liberal spending. So, you know, what's another 130 billion on top of the fiscal mess we already have in this country? So I'm a firm believer you should have a requirement that every party puts out a costed platform before voting begins, but that's just my pet peeve. Yeah, no question about it, boy, oh boy. All right, so one more week to go and we'll see what happens on this. Any guesses at this point? Is it like either a landslide or a complete snoozer? I don't know.

I think it's all gonna come down to Ontario. And if the Tories can close the polls and the gap in the polls here in Ontario, then that ground game matters so much more. And if they can't, then it's gonna be an uphill battle for them. No question about it. Explains why Mr. Poliev is in the 905-416

for the next couple of days. Chris Chapin, appreciate your time. Thanks as always, Alex. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days, and we wanna make it even easier for you to get the news you need. That's why you can now get Global National

every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day, so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global National Podcast. You can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. It is great to have you here to kick off a brand new week.

I'm Alex Cusin for Mr. Ben Mulroney. He will be back with us on Tuesday. And of course, we wake up to the news, I think a little surprising to most of us, because we just saw him give Easter greetings on Sunday. And it was the first time we'd seen Pope Francis in public anywhere since battling a very severe case of pneumonia. But we wake up now this morning and Pope Francis has in fact passed away at the age of 88. And so look, this is a pope who ushered in a lot of firsts. First brought in from Latin America. He was the first pope who was a Jesuit.

And the first to take the name Francis. He was also pretty much the first Pope to be open, more open, prioritizing things like empathy for the poor and the disenfranchised. He was open to homosexuality, talked about things like climate change. And you will recall in 2022, made a very historic trip to here in Canada, where he gave an apology for the Roman Catholic Church, their role in residential schools. So there are a lot of things will happen

over the coming days, but certainly what was his imprint and who will be picked next. Let me bring in someone who knows an awful lot about the Pope, Michael Higgins. He's an author and wrote the book, The Jesuit Disruptor, a personal portrait of the Pope. Thanks so much for joining us.

My pleasure. All right. What would you say? I mean, I think it's not that he wasn't elderly and had been sick for a while, but the fact is I think because people saw him in public yesterday, this comes as a great shock. What happens and where do you see the memories of this Pope, the direction of how he will be remembered? Well, I wrote a whole book about this, so it's a matter of getting a sound bite.

First of all, I think most of us are surprised that he died when he did. His recovery seemed unfolding. His physicians allowed him back into the Vatican with a quite truncated schedule, but he did meet with King Charles and Queen Camilla, and he also met with Vice President Vance. So it's not as if we didn't anticipate that he would die. At one point, I actually said in an interview that I thought he would survive this current bout, but that he would be so weakened by the experience that I would be extremely surprised that he survived 2025. Well, he died just shy of Easter Sunday. Wonderful symbolism, really.

And now we begin the process of bringing the Cardinals to Rome, arranging for the funeral, which will be watched globally, as you know, and then begin the process of electing his successor, going into what is called conclave, which is the gathering of the cardinals under the age of 80 who can still exercise their voting prerogative. And as I understand, he was the first pope brought in from Latin America, so the Americas, and he won't be buried in Rome. He will go back to Latin America. That is significant?

Oh no, no, no, he won't be going back to Latin America. He will be buried in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome. He is not going to be buried in St. Peter's, which is a departure from his immediate predecessors. But that was by choice, right? That's his choice, yes. And why would he want that, not to be buried where the others are? He had a special and long-term abiding veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary and was particularly attracted to this Basilica St. Mary Major in Rome, would often go there before he made a major trip, would return to the Basilica after he returned from a trip, and maintained

a long and personally devoted commitment to the devotion of Mary. And so it is not surprising. It's nothing more than a simple statement of his fond affection for the Virgin Mary and for his, well, his independence of thinking. I mean, he's not the only pope who's been buried at St. Mary's major. No, but again, he was different, right? He was picked, he was more progressive than other popes and certainly, I think, marched to his own drum or his own beat. What would then go into picking the next pope, right? Like, how does it work now? I mean, we go through the next few days, the next week and a half to two weeks, of saying goodbye to this Pope and honouring him.

But what goes into picking the next? When does that process start? Well, it works this way. The cardinals who are the electors, that is those cardinals who are under the age of 80, will gather in Rome and they'll have a series of what are called general congregations in which there will be talks and addresses and whatnot as they try to figure out who has the qualities and the competencies for the next pope.

And then they'll begin the conclave, which is when they enter into secrecy and into the Sistine Chapel. They won't be housed, they'll be housed separately elsewhere. But then begins the process, the voting process, by which the Cardinals choose somebody among themselves, although they're not confined to that. They can go outside the College of Cardinals, but over the last couple of centuries,

that's clearly not been the pattern, and then elect the new pope. So you have, you're quite right, you have the death of this pope, and then you have the seas empty. So basically some of the cardinals, the Cardinal Tamalingo and the Dean of the college, will basically provide oversight in governance.

And then you'll have the obsequies and funeral, and then you'll have the conclave, and then you will have the new pope come out on the balcony, the Apostolic Lugia, and it will be at that time that the world will know who the next pope is, where he's from, and indeed what his new name is. Yeah, and we'll see that, I guess, the signature white smoke. And before I let you go, would there be angling for that job? I know that might sound a little crass, but would there be people who are kind of politicking for that position or do they really just allow the process to unfold?

There's a traditional phrase that is used by journalists, Vaticanisti, but also by others in Rome that says that a cardinal who enters the conclave of a pope exits a cardinal. In other words, if you do have ambition for the primacy of Peter, then you better not show it. But, you know, when individuals gather together and they're in a position of power themselves. You know, motivation among them is going to be as various as it would be anywhere else. So some of them will go in and the primary concern will be to find the best person. And there will be a few who go in who will say,

I think I'm the best person. And then the internal politics will play itself out under the governance of the Holy Spirit. That's Catholic thinking around this. All right. And truly, before I let you go, would they purposely move away from someone as progressive or would that matter? It depends on what they need. They understand the needs of the Church to be. They'll look at the legacy of Pope Francis and they'll say, okay, what do we continue? What do we discontinue? What is important? What are the priorities? So there'll be a lot of

reflection because the Pope was Pope for well over a decade. He was hugely influential. And as a consequence, they'll need to assess what are the qualities we need in the next Pope. Yeah, well, he was definitely, I think a lot of people view this Pope Francis as someone who was quite different and believed in things that the Catholic Church wouldn't talk about. Certainly him coming to Canada, very, very famous visit here to Canada. In closing, how would you, what will his legacy be? You can go to the Globe and Mail for that. A major piece that I wrote for them serves both as an obituary and as a legacy statement.

It pretty well sums up what I think of Francis, as indeed does my book, The Jesuit Disruptor. In short, in a sound brief, I would say that, sound by feather, I would say that what Francis did was he humanized the papacy. He made it more accessible. He exercised the ministry of humility to the world. And he communicated the priority of the personal over the abstract. Yeah.

Well, in the days to come, certainly memories will come out. I appreciate your time, Michael. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Thank you. Bye bye. That is Michael Higgins. And if you want to read his book, it is The Jesuit Disruptor, a personal portrait of

Pope Francis. Great to have you here. I am Alex Pearson, the informant for Mr. Ben Mulroney. He will be back with us tomorrow and certainly wants to talk about. This is when we get into a little bit of a conversation about, you know, what does the new guy have to do to not look like the old guy? And he's now very much looking like the new guy is looking like the old guy with all the spending.

Let me bring Tony Chapman, host of the award winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, founder of this joining us now. Hi there. It's been a very long time. Alex, how are you? I'm sending you a virtual hug. It's so nice to hear your voice. It's been a very long time. Alex, how are you? I'm sending you a virtual hug. It's nice to hear your voice. It's a nice bear hug at that. Yes, great to hear your voice. And I think about you often, certainly, but I'd love to know how you would, how you brand

Mark Carney after, after that kind of announcement on the weekend when he's got all this new spending of $130 billion. You know, it's interesting, it really made me realize that politics is very different than business. In business, the CEO comes in and they and if they really have to turn the Titanic around, they change their team, they introduce a new vision, and they go and get capital to do so. And that's what you bring a new CEO in for change. But when it comes to politics, I was originally hoping Mark Carney would do that, bring the liberals back to the middle, the kind of Paul Martin era. But what we saw this weekend made me realize that politics is very different.

There's a lot of people that have their hand in the liberal party. There's a lot of people that have their hand in the liberal party. There's a lot of people that are really benefited over the past decade. And I don't blame them for voting liberal because that's that's their livelihood and security attached to it. But what Mark Carney certainly signaled is going to be not only more of the same, but much more of the same. And I think that I'll end that sort of story, this rant, but just basically saying, I think the choice, if we were to simplify it comes down to both parties want to create an economy because we need taxes. The liberals feel the best way to do it is through more government and more taxes, where the conservatives feel the best way to create an economy is less government and less taxes. And I think ultimately that's what the choice is gonna come down to.

And Mark Carney has certainly signaled that he's on the side of what the liberals believe in, that if you're gonna solve housing, if you're gonna take people out of tents, if you're gonna solve food banks, all this stuff has to come through boring money, taxing people and having the government decide where to invest it.

And I think that's ultimately the decision that voters are going to make. I don't even think I think you give them far too much credit. I mean, they're using words like invest, government investing. When do governments invest, Tony? I would never let the government invest my money because they would lose it. Right. Like they don't do well on the investment side. So when you see an announcement like that, I mean, there's still millions of people that

are going to the polls. So to suggest that no one would stop and think like, wait, this brand sounds a lot like the old brand, would it give them pause? You sure would hope so. If you know, listen, this is going to be if he was to win, and I don't think it's it's far from over. This would be one of the greatest comeback stories because even diehard liberal voters had given up on Justin Trudeau. And by the way, loyal liberal voters are like Coca-Cola drinkers. They are loyal. Where concertos, I would argue, are much more open to moving their vote, they're much softer voters. Diehard liberals are diehard liberals. But even they had said no more to

Trudeau because they could look around and see what was happening in Canada. And they really started to feel the debt and affordability and inflation. They actually started personalizing their situation. Carney shows up and totally beautifully, like liberal machine, absolutely proclaimed, coronation. Well, hold on a second. Let me step in there and ask you. The rest of the team and the advisors, all the exact same people around Trudeau, simply vanished. I mean, they're all same people around Triggo simply vanished.

I mean, they're all there, but it's like, this is a great point. It doesn't mean they're gone, right? They're not gone. It's a great point. He had to fight this entire battle as a solo pilot. Well, that's kind of easy. Where's the concert? I think it's easy.

Yeah. What did the concert is do? They said, well, we have all this bench strength, but no, we're going to get Pierrot to file as his fly solo. And therefore he had to play two roles. He had to constantly attack and remind us of how bad things were and also present himself as a state's person. But here's the issue as a human being. And I've studied human beings, entire career. If you had two dogs in the room, one's elite Husky and one's a rabid dog, you pay attention to the rabid dog and you don't feel comfortable. Why did the concertos make Pierre do both of those roles, attack dog and try to be a states person

and Carney only could play one role, which is, and he plays it very well, I'm the calm leader, I'm gonna take this agitation, this discomfort, the shifting sand you're feeling, and I'm gonna make it better. Give full credit to the liberal machine. And I've said this when he got appointed and people screamed at me. I said, now's the horse race.

It's not a chance. I said, watch the liberal machine go to town. The liberal machine is very good at getting you to forget the past. But we let them, right? And we let them. Well, it's not just we let them and the media is part of it, but the reality is you don't want, especially boom you don't want Especially boomers don't want the sense of insecurity. They just want to hold on to the finish line. Here's another quote

They don't want it, but they're happy to let the rest of us have it right? It's like they don't want it But neither do we well listen, there's a great study that just came out But if the generations boomers are very unwilling to pass their money on to their kids until they die where other Generations are willing to help their kids boomers are very unwilling to pass their money onto their kids until they die where other generations are willing to help their kids. Boomers grew up that we were a very privileged group. We enjoyed the fruits of our labor. We created a lot of Canada and they're trying to hold on because they don't want to, they don't want somebody that might mess the boat. Here's the issue that we've got to think about.

We're giving our youth a billion dollars a week in interest payments with nothing to show for it. You show me one thing in the last 10 years you could say, we did this for you. We invested in healthcare for you. We invested in education for you. We invested in getting more resources out of the ground for you. I can't point to one thing. So I'm going to, if I'm voting, do I vote if I'm a boomer for myself and hoping to hold on until the end? Or do I really start looking at my kids and grandkids and saying, if we don't start investing in them, they will have no tomorrow. And therefore, if they're not having a tomorrow, the entire Canada, as we know it, collapses. And this is where I think that the conservatives have not done a

good enough job. They've always just pointed to the problems of the liberals. This is what they did versus here's what we will do. And I think if you started to put that as a did versus do, and even in the last week, I would argue stop with a negative attack ads. We all know what happened under Trudeau's watch and focus on what you're going to do to create enterprise economy taxes. What you're going to do to create enterprise economy taxes, what you're going to do to get people less dependent on food banks and have tents no longer be affordable housing. And that's the issues. And if we don't focus on that, we're going to have more deficit, more debt on the backs of our kids. And I just don't think it's sustainable.

Well it's not, but it's not like that. And people haven't been warned. And so I say to the low information voters, if you, if you use a little bit, well, look, this is the thing. It's not, it's, it's, I don't even want warning. I just personalize it. Drive on the street, look around and say, imagine that's my somebody in my family living in that tent. And every night they got to zip up.

That's your lock. And, and, or they have, if they don't go to that food bank, their family's gonna starve. Personalize it that way versus the fences that we use warning, we go with this good versus evil. I want people to just say, do my kids deserve a billion dollars? You might have a billion dollars, we could build two hospitals a week.

In 30 weeks, we could build a pipeline. You know what, a billion dollars a week, we could invest a billion dollars in one week into entrepreneurs So you don't have to go down to the students states and find capital This is what I want to have a party talk to me about versus all and all we're just gonna take 40 billion deficit We're gonna take it to 60. We're gonna build the houses for you. We haven't built subways. We haven't built any infrastructure We were we took a six billion dollar pipeline to turn into 30 billion

But this time it's gonna be different. And I just, I don't like- Yeah, let me just jump out before we run out of time, though. But the 130 billion, I mean, if that's not a big wake-up call to those who are now planning to vote next week, now you know they've shown you who they are. This is who they are.

They love to spend. To your point, okay, so you take a big bucket of mud and you just pour it on the sidewalk on a little tiny ant and say, there's your kid's future. Ask your kids what they'd spend a billion dollars a week on in Canada instead of interest payments. And you might have a conversation where I personalize that big number until then. And it's just a meaningless number.

And by the way, conservatives better show up with their costed out policy because if not, well, let's hope they do it. I wish they'd done it before. It should be mandatory that they have to be presented by the second week because the bottom line is we're going to the polls uninformed, right? These are important decisions. Uninformed and Christmas comes every election year, promise after promise after promise. Canada's broke, guys.

We need to grow our economy and our taxes. Is it going to be the liberals or the concerters that are the best shot at doing that? Everything else is immature. If we don't grow our tax base, we continue to borrow on the backs of future generations, it collapses. Well, not not sure what the day after the 28th looks like. I just think either which way, whomever wins, Tony, I would put the warning, don't be cheering and don't be boasting because we're a very divided country. Listen, I just read it out on LinkedIn that I voted conservative today and you wouldn't believe I'm getting the blowback.

It's probably going to cost me work, but I think it's important in this election that we let people know it's okay to put out who you're voting for and why and do it in the most responsible way versus finger pointing. Got it. Got to go, Tony. I'm out of time, but we'll chat again. Thank you. Great to have you here. Mr. Ben Moree back tomorrow. I am Alex Pearson in for him. We have certainly spent some time talking about this news that came in over the weekend,

about another 130 billion in new spending that Mr. Carney's government does plan to unleash, right? We've got inflation lurking, and I hear all this news, we're carrying all this, you know, we've got 1.2 trillion, you know, in our federal debt and I'm like, how on earth are we going to pay for this? I don't know how we're going to pay for all this stuff. Like, are we all supposed to open OnlyFans pages? I don't know how we're going to pay for all this. I mean, when you look at how much our federal debt's doubled since 2015, it's massive. It's massive. And, you know, we spend more just to service our debt than we do paying transfers to all the provinces. So if you want to kind of put in perspective, $49 billion every year just to service our

debt. I mean, think about what we could buy. Just think about that, right? And we've got the cancellation of the carbon tax We have the risk all these taxes we've been paying and then you wonder well how how's the government gonna pay for it? Well, they're gonna pay for it by the thing that they talk about all the time that they keep telling us They're not gonna do and that is bring in a capital gains tax, right? They'll tax what we own Or won't they Kevin Klein president of the Winnipeg Sun, political columnist and former minister of environment from Manitoba, was under the conservative government

at the time, he joins us now, hi Kevin. Hi Alex, thanks very much for having me, happy Easter. You know, they say that when someone or a politician or a political party talks about something a lot and the Liberal Party have talked about capital gains and you know taxing equity in our homes for a long long time. They say they won't do it and yet you know I think you write a really timely piece about this that well yeah they could. This is something that they're not talking about. Why do you think they will? Well I think they will because of what you alluded to

off the top. We have no more money. We have no more sources for revenue to take from Canadians. And this is, if you will, a gold mine. The combined equity in Canadian homes, what people actually own after mortgages, is worth trillions of dollars. And that's not an exaggeration. It is worth trillions of dollars. And with the federal debt now over 1.4 trillion dollars, they have to find this money somewhere. And I enjoy

the fact that you mentioned 130 billion dollars in new spending with no talk about how they're going to balance the budget or pay for that. So this, this home equity really does become the next source of revenue. And let's be clear, this is not new. Government's been talking about this for a while. They've been having the Canadian Housing Mortgage Corporation do studies on it. And they started including your home on the tax forms.

So the work is in progress. And I spent time in government, I'll tell you, they have people and that's their job. Where can we find money? They hunt for money and this is gonna be on the target list. Well, they never seem to find money where, you know, the waste actually is, right? I mean, and okay, maybe they can just charge

the capital gains on liberal voters, right? Cause they're all about this. Cause for most of us, certainly those of us in the private sector, that's a retirement, right? Anything you take out of our home or whatever, that is it for savings for old age and certainly for generations under the boomer generation. That's all we've got.

Yeah, and if you look at it, right? So I just did some average math on it. And so if somebody had a $500,000 home, they had $100,000 left on their mortgage or they had a $600,000 home. So let's say their home equity is $500,000 home, they had $100,000 left on their mortgage, or they had a $600,000 home. So let's say their home equity is $500,000. And hypothetically, if the government charged 1% annual home equity tax,

that's five grand a year. And let's say just for fun, there's only five million homes in Canada. We know that there's way more. But let's say there's five million homes that have $500,000 equity. That's $25 billion a year into the government's pocket. They're going to want to take that. And I think that

they see that as an opportunity to play that game again, right? It's not, we're not going after your money. This is more of a friendly tax. This is a way for us to, you know, make life better for everybody. And we're just going to tax those that we're lucky enough and smart enough, I guess, to pay off their mortgage, not to overspend, to control their spending, unlike what the government's done, especially for nine years. Yeah, well, when Mark Carney starts using words

like government investment, I just go, okay, I'm out. Like, governments don't invest, right? They're not investing in my pockets, so they're not going to invest in anyone. That's a new one. Yeah, and I think you really see a lot of people where I've got a lot of message, oh, it's a conspiracy theory. And no, it is not. They have done this. They've actually looked into this several times. Well, they tried to do it. It's leaked. Yeah, I mean, it's out there. We're running out of money. Again, off the top, you spoke about it. The fact that Canadians don't understand the last nine years of very bad fiscal policy has put us in

this position. And that's a fact, right? It's irrefutable. We're in a very, very, very bad position. They're going to have to get the money. And yes, he eliminated the public facing carbon tax. And you got to replace that so we're gonna replace it against consumers You take a home equity tax in theory when you explain it as a politician and I've been around too many of them It'll be a nice thing right? Oh, we're only gonna take 1% Yeah, you don't be taking anything and it'll be called a fairness tax a caring tax and it'll just be like when you move Into a condo and they say oh, it's just a little fee that we're gathering and then we don't do it anymore. It's like it never stops being collected. But this is a reality which is why you almost have to

say to the young people look Gen X, we cannot afford to pay your bills too because we'll have to pay for our stuff. You know if you don't vote this election you're on your own because there's not enough money to go around. So that's where we're at and then you know this didn't get a lot of attention as you well know about this 40 billion dollars that was basically spent by this government in the last couple of weeks and the governor general was the one who approved this new federal spending and it was done all under this special warrant and I'm thinking okay who the hell allowed this and how did they get

away with it given Parliament was closed? Well this is interesting because I've experienced this when your government goes into a goes into an election vote of course you have very limited powers the ministers have powers to keep the government going and can do emergency spending and such but I hear a lot of people complaining about how Trump manages his country and he's you know implementing using special powers. But isn't this what we just did? Isn't this what the Liberal government just did, gave that special power to spend $40 billion? And I can't find, I've done the research, I cannot find a single dollar

that was spent to make life better for a Canadian. Not a dollar. Certainly, yeah, I mean, we've had a lot of, you know, they talk about having our back in that, but I don't hear any EI packages being rolled out or special EI programs, you know, for whatever, you know, they were saying that they would do for those in auto sectors or those hit by tariffs in that. This is like, I don't even know what this money is for. It's just 40 billion on top of this new 130 billion. Well, and it was 150 million to the CBC for emergency needs. Well, what was the emergency

in case they lose the election? Like, I mean, you know, we gave them $150 million and then you have a reporter in the White House basically doing Mark Carney's work by bringing up the Trump in the 51st state, which had gone quiet, right? Polls had started to change because of that. Then all of a sudden out of the blue, coincidence? And was that 150 used for government to like to cover the election more? Did they need? That to me is political interference. And I sat in those seats.

I was there. I've seen this. I would not be shocked. And I see where this money is going. And it's all to special interest groups as far as I can see. It doesn't help the average Canadian. You have Canadian, more Canadians now than ever lining up at food banks. I have kids that can't buy a house that make good money. They'll never be able to buy a house. And yet, we could possibly have a liberal majority by next week, which is the most ins... It is, like, I kind of just can't believe the, like, delusion.

But that's where we're at. I'm as frightened by this as you are. I'm hopeful, though, that with the numbers we're seeing at the advanced polls, that people are finally going to say, OK, I need to exercise my democratic right. And don't look at personalities. That's what I've been trying to tell everybody as somebody who was in politics. Look at the policies. Because what fiscal policy other than spending your money and going deeper in debt as Mark Carney put forward? Yeah, I don't need to be friends with anyone. I just need to be able to afford my country that is safe and standing on its own. I'm out of time, Kevin. I very much appreciate yours.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you the opportunity to speak with you. 100%. That's Kevin Klein, president of the Winnipeg Sun. and the iHeartRadio Canada apps. And make sure to follow and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your streaming audio. We release new podcasts every day. Thanks for listening. There's no limit to how far criminals will go to cover their tracks. But investigators will go even further to uncover the truth. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News. This season on Crime Beat, I'll take you from the crime scene to the courtroom, and inside

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