The Ben Mulroney Show - Best of the Week Part 3 - Erin O'Toole, David MacNaughton, Gordon Giffin

Episode Date: May 10, 2025

Best of the Week Part 3 - Erin O'Toole, David MacNaughton, Gordon Giffin Guests: Erin O'Toole, David MacNaughton, Gordon Giffin, Brad Smith, Noah Cappe, Craig Baird If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show Best of the Week podcast. We had so many great discussions this week, including a panel of ambassadors who had insights into the Trump-Carney meeting that you won't hear anywhere else. Plus former conservative leader Aaron O'Toole joins me as well. Enjoy.

I have a lot of respect for this man, and I watched him come up, in a sense, through the ranks Former conservative leader Aaron O'Toole joins me as well. Enjoy! that's good or bad, I shouldn't say that. That might hurt you. And a cue for your hospitality and above all for your leadership. You're a transformational president, focus on the economy with a relentless focus on the American worker. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And that was just a clip of Donald Trump and Mark Carney essentially showering each other with compliments. You've heard my opinions. I've got a lot of good to say about that meeting. I've got a lot of good to say about that meeting. I've got some criticisms as well, but let's bring two people into this conversation with far more depth of knowledge.

When they speak, you should listen. Please welcome to the show David McNaughton, former Canadian ambassador to the US, as well as Gordon Giffin, former US ambassador to Canada, to both of my ambassadors. I say welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you for joining us. as well as Gordon Giffin, former US ambassador to Canada, to both of my ambassadors. I say, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you, good to be here. So Ambassador Giffin, let's start with you. There were moments when both of these men were very complimentary to each other. Is that what you would have expected? I know we take it for granted that that's what usually happens, but it's been a really

interesting few months. Was that par for the course? No, I don't think you can expect anything with President Trump. I mean, every, every day is a new day and anything could happen. So actually I thought the meeting, certainly the one we saw in public yesterday, was much better than I expected. And I think frankly that it evidences that Donald Trump has a respect for Mark Carney and that he's gained that respect by observing Prime Minister Carney over the recent weeks and months, but also because of Prime Minister Carney's resume and life experiences, the fact that he's not just a career politician, that he started out as an investment banker and of course most recently was at Brookfield. So I think the most important takeaway for me was that there was evidence of a respect for Canada's prime minister.

– Ambassador McNaughton, you were appointed and you worked under Justin Trudeau. The simple fact, I think, that Mark Carney is not Justin Trudeau got him pretty far down the road in terms of the respect that was afforded to him by Donald Trump. That was not a positive relationship between the two men. And, you know, Donald Trump made it pretty clear that he didn't like Justin Trudeau or Christopher Lin. Let's take a listen to that one. We have the USMCA is a good deal for everybody. I won't say this about Mark,

but I didn't like his predecessor. I didn't like a person that worked for, she was terrible. Actually, she was a terrible person. And she really hurt that deal very badly because she tried to take advantage of the deal and she didn't get away with it. You know what I'm talking about. But so, you know, I had a we had a bad we had a bad relationship having to do with the

fact that we disagreed with the way they viewed the deal. And we ended it, you know, we ended that that relationship pretty much. Ambassador McNaughton, it feels to me when I hear that, that we are living in a time where personality, and maybe it's been like this forever, but the personality in these diplomatic exchanges is as important as it's ever been. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I think it does, you know, if there's tension in the room, if there's personal possibility, it makes it more difficult

the only thing i would suggest is that uh... it's extremely helpful to set off a very you know positive first step which is i think what by mister pernick did with donald trump yesterday that gets you sort of to the table and talking in a in a reasonably rational way. But we got a long way to go yet. I mean, it's not the personal relationships matter, but they don't get you the deal.

And that's what that's what I that's the unknown here, right? What we saw yesterday, Ambassador Giffin, was the performance, the pageantry. But the nuts and bolts of the work that needs to happen is gonna happen behind closed doors. Talk to me about what those meetings might be like. After this meeting, when they go and they close the doors and the cameras aren't there, what sorts of conversations are happening?

How much of a tonal shift are we talking about? I think there's a substantial tonal shift and whether it's fair or not whether uh president trump should have been as dismissive of prime minister trudeau as he was uh i don't agree with, but it was the case. In this set of circumstances, what I think has occurred, and we'll see, as David has suggested, that was only the first opportunity for them to gain ground, but I watched up close and personally

the relationship between Bill Clinton and Jean Chrétien, and the chemistry between those two leaders made a huge difference in how we worked together as two countries. And you're very familiar with what chemistry meant during the period of time that your father was prime minister. It was a significant part of how the two countries work together. So, and I get the sense and the reporting is, and some friends of mine have told me the same thing, that in the private meetings, President Trump was inquisitive and asked Prime Minister Carney a lot of questions beyond

the Canada-U.S. relationship about his global views on important questions. And I will tell you, there is no doubt in my mind that the secret sauce in the relationship between Canada and the United States over the decades has been our partnership globally, not just what we sell to each other. And frankly, I, I've said for all the time I've been involved with Canada, too much time is spent by the press talking about the trading relationship and not enough time about the value of our global partnership.

And if Donald Trump now believes that Mark Carney is a global partner and someone he can talk with, rely on, as former presidents have on former prime ministers, then that's the secret sauce and we will make progress as a result of that. Well, see, that's a really interesting point, Ambassador Giffin. And Ambassador McNaughton, if you can maybe move the ball down the field on that, I mean, if Donald Trump is, in fact, I was smitten, it's probably a good word, by Mark Carney and sort of his resume and his connections and his world view and the fact that Canada can have certain conversations with certain leaders that the Americans can't,

I mean, that could present a real opportunity for Canada to yet again go to a place where we're punching above our weight, we are that middle power, we're that honest broker. I mean, that could be a really interesting opportunity for us. Yeah, well, I think Gordon's absolutely right. And, you know, the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, we do have a trade deal with with the United States. And, you know, President Trump said it wasn't that you know, it wasn't done under Biden, it wasn't done, you previous president, it was done under Donald Trump. And yet, he is using things like 232, which suggests that Canadian steel and aluminum

imports are a national security threat, or AEPA that says that it's fentanyl coming in. I think if we can establish the kind of relationship that you're talking about, whereby we are, he sees Canada and we are allies in defense and security and in sort of defending North America's position in the world and helping the United States in terms of its international dealings, then I think that the rationale for using those clauses that go around Congress disappear. And that's really the key to this because we've got a trade deal. And so trying to reopen KUSMA doesn't make any sense if he's still going to use AIIPA

and 232. So I think that is the key. I think that this the relationship, you know, if Gordon's right, I hope, you know, we can we can make progress on that front and ambassadors. This is an ally. Ambassadors, I want to thank you so much. An incredibly insightful conversation. You've actually made me reconsider everything I thought about that meeting because the potential upside for what could come next is immense. So thank you to the both of you. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And I've been telling you that I was so lucky yesterday to spend some time

at the Norton Rose Fulbright offices here in Toronto. It's a big law firm where my dad was a senior partner and, and we were there to celebrate the launch of the new historic Heritage Minute. And I was there coming out of the elevator with my next guest, Aaron O'Toole, the president at North America and former Conservative Party of Canada leader. Aaron, what did you think of yesterday? It was a great event, Ben, great crowd and a great story. Borah Laskin, the first Jewish Supreme Court justice, remarkable career as a lawyer myself. I remember studying his cases.

So it was a great night. It was great to see you. Yeah, I was so glad to see you too. Well, I see you remotely two days in a row now. But yesterday was all about sort of Canada's history. And yesterday was also about history in the making with Mark Carney sitting down with Donald Trump. And you know, I'm really of two minds.

I've been telling the listeners all day about this that I think he acquitted himself very well. He didn't get Zelensky. He wasn't Justin Trudeau. A lot of positive things that came out of it. I take issue with the fact that the man that he presented as on the election campaign was not the guy we saw yesterday, but that's neither here nor there. What did you think of yesterday? Yeah, I think that's a good assessment.

Generally, it went well. You know, I think if if there's a new tone established, we need that tone between Canada and the US, two great historic allies and friends. We need to reestablish that trust before we can then tackle tariffs, security issues, a range of bilateral issues that are important. There was still some mild taunting, but there was none of the governor language, that sort of stuff. I had been the conservative critic for the NAFTA renegotiations in 2018.

And unfortunately, the Trudeau government made a lot of critical errors. Donald Trump can be very unfair and very mercurial. I'm not suggesting he's not. But when we went into it, almost trying to drive disagreement, it was not a smart way to negotiate with an ally. So I think Trump is looking at Carney as a fresh start and Carney is taking a

serious tone. So I thought overall it went very well for a first meeting. Well, and listen, let's, we've got to be fair as well and like listen, it was it was good, it was fine, it was what needed to happen in that first meeting. It by no means is the end of the road and he was very clear in what he said but I do believe Mark Carney's enjoying a little bit of a honeymoon right now with with with the Canadian people as well as the press he's getting a lot of but the fact is anybody could have shown up and had a positive meeting if they weren't named Justin Trudeau like that that was as

clear as the day is long he said as much he doesn't named Justin Trudeau. Like that was as clear as the day is long. He said as much. He doesn't like Justin Trudeau. He doesn't like Christia Freeland. He's got a long memory for those sorts of things. And the fact that he showed up and his name wasn't Justin Trudeau already put him ahead of the game. 100%.

Yeah. And in fact, the relationship between Trudeau and Trump got so bad that even while he was still prime minister, Trudeau was commenting publicly about how he wished Kamala Harris had won. And normally the Canadian prime minister doesn't wade into that stuff. It doesn't make sort of virtue signal comments, which he did throughout his time.

And I really think the Trudeau team never thought that Trump would win a second mandate. And so they rolled the dice and it, you know, lost as a result of it. But then you've got like, you just referred to the Trudeau team. Mark Carney's team is still more or less the Trudeau team. And so I find that part of it, I don't know whether Donald Trump is choosing to I find that part of it, I don't know whether Donald Trump is choosing to not see that nuance or whether he doesn't care, maybe it's all about the leader for him.

But the fact that so many of those people who applauded when Justin would say those nitpicky things about Donald Trump, they're still there. You're right, and it's the same cabinet. I used to joke that there was one cabinet change, the first minister, the prime minister, an important one, but all the rest of the cabinet ministers, including Ms. Freeland and Wilkinson that were sort of anti-pipeline, anti-energy, you know, they're now all singing a slightly different tune, but that's the real test I think for Prime Minister Carney is are we going to get the recent Prime Minister Carney who called Canada an

energy superpower sort of echoing ARPA in those comments or are we going to see the Mark Carney of years ago starting the Global Financial Alliance for Net Zero G fans which has fallen apart, was way too far forward on the energy transition. Which guy are we going to get? It remains to be seen. And I do think he needs to change a lot of that Trudeau team around him to show that he's serious and it wasn't just campaigning differently.

Well, like I said, he still hasn't been road tested to a point where I know which guy we're going to get. And that I I think, that served him well in the election campaign. But now that he is wants to be the prime minister for all Canadians, we need to know who he is far more than we do right now. Now, Aaron, I had Gordon Giffin on the show, the former US ambassador to Washington. He said something that I thought could prove quite insightful. He said he knows some people who are in the behind the scenes meeting,

the stuff that happened beyond the pageantry of that press conference. And he said that Donald Trump appeared genuinely interested to learn all sorts of things about Mark Carney, who he was, who he knew, what his worldview was. And it occurred to me this could be an opportunity where Mark Carney, maybe he was right, maybe he's the guy that Donald Trump will take a shine to and appreciate that, you know, in this, as partners in the world with similar values, there's certain things that Canada might be able to do and say and have conversations with that the Americans can't. And we will maybe be able to leverage that soft power of being a sort of a middle honest broker that we haven't been able to do in a very long time. What do you think of that? middle on his broker that we haven't been able to do in a very long time. What do you think of that?

I think there's a lot to that, Ben, you know, I do think it's clear that Donald Trump respects people that have had success in business. Yeah. And you know, after Mr. Carney's time as our governor and governor in the UK, you know, he's had great success with book field and Bloomberg. He was called in often as an advisor. So I think Trump respects that. And if we can build a little bit of a better rapport, as I said, this tone, then we can go back to that traditional role where Churchill

called Canada the linchpin between Europe and the United States. And nobody exemplified that better than your late father, who was able to leverage huge wins for Canada on acid rain, but also huge wins for the world, on South Africa, fighting apartheid, and making the first Gulf War a multilateral effort. So if Canada has that good relation, we can actually get a lot of things done for our country and for global security But in our in our last few minutes Aaron

I do want your insights as to what you what you see and what you think are interesting things that we on the outside should Be paying attention to as the conservatives try to learn from their election loss and move forward They've selected Andrew Schear as the interim opposition leader. We know that Pierre is going to fight it out in a by-election in Alberta, but the fight isn't over for him to maintain his leadership. So just give me a little bit of your sense of what we should be paying attention to. Well, I think the by-election is key. Damien Couric, you know, sewing the crow foot riding in Alberta. That will be a quick by-election

because Mark Carney has also said that he'll not delay. You know, the prime minister can delay a by-election for six months. So I think he has to wait by constitutional law 30 days, but Pierre will be in the house quite quickly. He's got strong support in caucus and in the party, so he won't have some of the trouble I had after an election loss. The bigger issue though is he has to go sort of learning from the campaign. I think he's already starting to show that. We saw that

in his first comments, his first video, but he's going to have to show a nation building and a Team Canada approach because until we resolve our challenges with the United States, there will be this elbows up mentality. I've said Canada needs elbows up and we need to smarten up too because we haven't been as effective as an ally as we can. But where he can support the prime minister on critical things for our country or for national unity. I think Pierre will have to put the country first.

Conservatives have generally always done that, going back to our earliest days. And the key thing he'll have to do is show people a bit of a new breadth and depth and be able to speak to issues beyond just those that are important for the conservative base. Aaron O'Toole, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you come back sometime soon. I appreciate it. Great to be with you, Ben. Excuse me. Why are you walking so close behind me? Well, you're a tall guy. You throw a decent shadow and I'm walking in it to keep out of this bright sun.

It hurts my eyes. Okay, well you know what, Specsavers, you can get two pairs of glasses from $149 and oh, you'll like this. One can be a pair of prescription sunglasses. Sounds great! Where's the nearest store? Mmm, not far. Come on. Let's hurry then.

To my count. One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, one, two, one, two, one, one, two, one, one, two, one, one, two, one, one, two, one, one, two, one, one, one, two, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, To my count. One, two, one, two, one, two. Visit specsavers.ca for details. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news you need. That's why you can now get Global National every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day, so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global National Podcast. You can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite

podcasts. Welcome to the Dilemma Panel. No question is too awkward. No problem too petty. And no opinion goes unchallenged. Our panel of overthinkers is here to guide you through the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of the world of Welcome to the Dilemma Panel. No question is too awkward. No problem too petty. And no opinion goes unchallenged.

Our panel of overthinkers is here to dissect, deliberate, and sometimes derail the conversation entirely. Grab your popcorn. This isn't just advice. It's a front row seat to life's most hilariously relatable train wrecks. Here's your host, Ben Mulrooney. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney Show. I always love doing the Dilemma. Listen, it's been all Mark Carney and Donald Trump up until this point, more or less. So it's nice to have the cleansing tonic that is the Dilemma panel, where we try to solve

your everyday dilemmas. And I got two great guests joining me today. And this is a really interesting combo. First of all, let's welcome Noah Capp. He's a host, he's an actor, and he was the host of The Bachelorette and Bachelor Canada. Noah, welcome. It's going to be a wonderful little dilemma. It'll be the best dilemma. But I also got Brad Smith joining us again. He's a Chorus Radio contributor, host of The Big Bake on the Food Network, and he was the first Bachelor

Canada bachelor, former CFL host. So two bachelor guys but they didn't work together. Noah it's great to see you Noah I've been a huge fan of you always Noah. This was better. So you guys did not cross paths in the bachelor universe. No we crossed in Food Network though we did a bunch of events together I've known Noah since pretty much the first day I was on Chopped Canada what a beauty of an individual and also too one of the more talented guys on TV. Well, yeah, I always have, Noah, I was always struck

by how well you would describe the bites of food that you were about to put in your mouth. I appreciate that. And I didn't get any notes to say something nice back about Brad, so I'm just gonna throw it on. He's the best, Noah, he's the best. There's no one better. All right, here we go, boys.

Let's jump into dilemma number one. Dear Ben, I have a bit of a dilemma when it comes to dining out with my group of friends. There are seven of us total and whenever we go out to eat, they always want to split the bill evenly. The problem is I don't drink alcohol and most of them do a lot while I just stick to a meal and maybe a soda.

I don't want to seem cheap and make things awkward by bringing it up, but I also don't think it's fair to constantly subsidize other people's cocktails. I've tried subtly ordering first and handing the server my card early, but the group always insists on just splitting everything evenly in the end. How can I bring this up without looking stingy or ruining the vibe signed Kelly?

That's a tricky one. That's a tricky one. I maybe, you know, before I, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have you guys answer here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have you guys answer first and then I'm gonna pick and choose the person that you think is the smartest. No, you go first. Well, look, I lived on the road with six crew members filming Carnival Leads for a decade. So I sat at endless restaurants where there were seven of us at a table

and I'm not a drinker. So I can totally relate to this. We had a, you know, a thing though right out of the gate where everybody got their own bill. I think my short answer would be as you get older, you realize you care less and less what people think about you in these like silly little moments. Just say, I'm gonna get my own bill, let you guys split the rest. Yeah, that's, I think that's, I think that's the most direct way to get the result you want. That was very concise.

Yeah. Having owned restaurants, worked in restaurants, this is a very simple, we're not writing down on a piece of paper what you're eating anymore. This, you know, they hand around the card machine, it's called a Monaris. You can split each individual check into exactly what that person is getting. These people are, I'm not saying they're bad friends, but to kind of Noah's point, as you get older, it's your money becomes more valuable to you and you understand, we're not at college anymore where I'm buying 40 vodka sodas for everybody. And to Kelly, what kind of friends did you have buying 40 vodkas? Good for you.

Very, very, very desperate ones. Well, Kelly, like these are your friends. They're your friends. He's not strangers. You can have these conversations with them. And if they view you as stingy, I don't know what kind of friends you have. Like this is a pretty straight up thing.

I don't drink, you guys drink. The bill always comes out to more. I shouldn't be sad. Like that's a pretty- Especially when cocktails are like $25. Yeah, yeah. I think Kelly, one of two things, either do your own thing or have an honest conversation with them. And if they're not open to giving you what you need here,

they ain't good friends. Unfriend. Okay. Now I'm going to get to dilemma number two in a minute, but I want to bring up a hypothetical dilemma of my own. Ooh. And it's a Reddit, am I the a-hole? Okay, so I've- Yes, yes you are.

I know, but I'm gonna give you a very- Now- Okay- Dilemma number three. Okay, so here's, just listen to this. So I don't know if you guys know, but over the course of COVID, I lost my sense of smell. I have no sense of smell whatsoever.

Still have my sense of taste. Still gone? Still gone, I smell nothing. I could tell being in the studio with you. And a few weeks, a few weeks ago, I was sort of woke up in the middle of the night. I was like, Ooh, I have an idea. And I went online and I researched and it find, I found out that losing

your sense of smell technically is a disability, which would then open it up to me getting one of those special parking passes. Stop it. Am I the a-hole if I go down that route? Yes, you are. Why? Yes, you are.

Now tell me why. Go to one. I mean, what do you mean why? That's one of those where I would literally in the parking lot be comfortable to like yell at you in front of people. You'd have the sticker in your window and people would be like, this guy's yelling at a handicapped person, but I mean, it's smell. I don't see how that ties into you needing to be closer to the door. Well, that's not the barrier to entry. The barrier to entry is, do I have a disability? And legally, I do. Yeah, but Noah, you have to understand that Ben is very

used to people yelling at him. If you yell at me all the time, I might as well give them a good reason. No, but honestly, Ben, if you have to ask that question, I think we have bigger issues to talk about. Listen, it's a thing. Listen, driving in this city is a pain in everybody's behind. If I can find a way to make my life a little bit better, and by the way, the government comes and comes and comes for you every day. They're extracting their... they come for their pound of flesh every day. It feels to me like there's an element of like, go get yours. Listen, I'm going to judge you for that question, but I also... You're going to judge me? This is a question. It's not like I did it yet. I'm asking. Yeah, but you're thinking about it. You're in the...

I bet you even have the application form at home. I do not. I dated a girl who actually was working around the law like you want to. And she had a bike rack on the back of her car. Didn't own a bike, but she could park anywhere in the city with that bike rack. And I always, yeah, that's a thing. That's a thing. Well, it was during 2016 to whatever it was, but I always judged her. And look, I'm not looking to look around the law.

I'm looking to apply the law. This is an app, this is a fair application of the law. This is Duke Law 101. Listen, I didn't say I was gonna do it. I asked, am I the a-hole if I do it? Yes. All right. Hold on, I just, before we move on,

and before, who cares about the legal part? I have a question, Ben. Yes. Is this like, do you find it surprisingly affecting your life in unexpected ways? Because I think the average person is like, oh, oh, I can't smell, la, la, la, and you just keep going on. But when you really start to think about it, like,

has it impacted you? Yes, of course it has. Of course it has. As a matter of fact, there are studies out there that they haven't done the studies yet, but they know that the sense of smell is very closely triggered to a certain type of memory recall. And there is a worry that the long-term impact of not having access to that recall could lead to cognitive decline. Oh my God, I didn't even think about it. Hey, Noah, look at you. Did you chat GPT that? That was a great question. Yeah, well, there you go. That's why I told you this would be a great

panel. Okay, back to the dilemma dilemma. This is the classic Reddit, am I the a-hole for refusing to change someone's baby diaper? Someone's baby's diaper. That's better. Okay, my wife and I have been married 10 plus years and have a few kids. My sister-in-law and her husband had a baby two years ago. No major complaints. They just tend to ask people to do stuff that I would think they would do themselves. The other day, we're having dinner at my mother-in-law's house

when the baby had a poopy diaper. Sister-in-law looks at me and says in the sweetest voice, can you change the diaper? I answered politely, no, I'm sorry, I don't do that. The table got really awkward and she got up and did the diaper. Afterwards, my wife blamed me for making her feel bad and said I should have just changed the diaper. Not trying to make anybody feel bad, but I've had three kids and I always took responsibility.

I watched them, I packed for them, I changed for them. I'm not looking to be a secondary parent for this kid who's the a-hole. I think it's a big leap from this person to suggest that changing one diaper makes you a secondary parent. Boy, what do you guys think? I mean, I got a kiddo I've sat on both side of the of the line here. You know, I think that there is things that fall into each side of the of the of the fence on this one and a diaper is in a different category. It's like, you want me to grab a bottle, you want me to get something from the kiddo's bag, you want me to pop the stroller, whatever it is. But there's like a couple of things where it's kind of like, no, that's like that one's all you. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's like even, you know, you say, oh, I can smell

my own brand or whatever doesn't bother me. But when you have a kid, even those, it's like I have a, I have a flipbook of photos of me Wearing like t-shirts hiding around my face like I'm robbing a train The smell I can't I'm not dealing with your kids. All right. All right. I'm gonna get I mean you're gonna respond after the break We've got more with the dilemma panel coming up on the Ben Mulroney show Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to the dilemma panel. We've got've got Noah Camp, we've got Brad with us. Welcome back guys. Thank you so much. Let's jump right back into another Dilemma. Dear Ben's Panel, so this is directed to you guys, I have a close friend who constantly vents to me about her boyfriend,

how he's selfish, controlling, emotionally unavailable, and sometimes even borderline manipulative. Every time we talk it turns into a therapy session where she unloads all her latest drama. I try to be supportive and empathetic, but I've also gently and not so gently suggested she consider leaving him, especially since she's clearly unhappy. The problem is, she never takes the advice. She vents, cries, agrees with me in the moment, and then stays with him anyway. This cycle has been going on for three years, and I am emotionally drained. I care about her deeply, but I'm starting to feel like a sounding board, not a friend. How do I support her without enabling this toxic cycle and without burning myself out?

Signed anonymous. Bradley. Oh, this is hard because I have, me and my friends have great relationships. My shortest friend is like a 15 plus year. Yeah. And you have to have reciprocal relationships. If you're venting or if this person's venting to you, you have to be able to vent back, but it can't be one where you're just getting your battery drained.

And the second thing is, is I hate when people like, every relationship I've been in, I try not to talk badly about my partner to my friends in order for them not to create, because we only go with the bad stories. We never call up and say, oh, look how great this was, what she did for me. So this is a tough one, but if you're not getting back

the same effort that this person's putting into you and dropping this, you know, emotional weight on you, you should just say, see you. So what you're saying relationships are two way streets. That's very deep of you, Brad. Yes, that could have been, you co-noted it. So let's just cut all the rest of this. Noah, you got anything less trite?

Listen, whoever sent this message hit the jackpot with the two of us. If there's anybody who knows love and how to properly find it, speak for yourself. It's Brad and I, obviously. Listen, again, this is one of those, maybe I'm just like cold and just like, I have no heart, but I'm like you can only Help you can only try to a certain point and then you have to remove yourself because a Your mental health has to be taken into consideration and be some people just Need to find a different route or a different way and it's not always your responsibility to walk them over the line Yeah, you have to have boundaries too

I've been on phone calls at night right before I go to bed where I have to say, listen, I can't deal with this right now. This is not what I'm going to deal with and good friends understand. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I've had friends tell me is like, listen, you're really burning me out here. You're dumping a lot of problems on me right now. Ben, we don't care about the parking pass. Okay. I remember hearing that from a friend of mine. I was like, geez, I'm sorry. I didn't want to be, I didn't think I was being a burden, but thank you for telling me because you're my friend and I love you and I wouldn't want to do that to you.

And so there's a level of respect that comes from somebody who has the courage to be honest with you about something that might hurt your feelings. So anonymous, I would say you go out on a limb and tell your friend exactly how you're feeling. And if, and again, I keep going back to this stuff. If the people don't receive it with the respect which it's intended, then there's a problem

with your relationship, right? All right, let's move on. Dear Ben, my wife and I are having ongoing disagreements about lending money to her family members. She believes she would help them whenever we can. She believes we should help them whenever we can, even if it stretches our own budget. While I think we need to set clear boundaries,

especially since some of these loans never get repaid. I haven't exactly minded when it was $1,000 here or there, but the latest is her aunt asking for 10 grand, which frankly we don't have. My wife thinks we should use our vacation funds for this year. I think that's a non-starter. We work too hard and vacations are our only chance

to truly decompress. We've discussed this every day this week and every time it turns into an emotional argument. How can we find common ground on this? Signed Daniel. Listen, my, my take is like, it's, this is your, this is your money. This is your money. And if this is going to negatively impact your, uh, your ability to enjoy your life and be together as a couple and decompress. No, I think you gotta be able to put your foot down on something like this, especially

because you have let money in the past. It's not like you're saying no all the time. You've been generous with family members and it's all, by the way, right off the top, lending money to her family members, right? So at some point, your wife's going to have to compromise with you, Daniel. Brad, what do you think? First of all, Daniel, you have to realize one thing right off the bat. When you lend money to friends or family, expect that it's gone. That is just gone. But also too, like Ben said, if it is negatively affecting not

only your relationship, but your livelihood, and the only thing that you want to do is use this money, not to give it to, you know, your mother-in-law so that they can have a new deck and you want to go on vacation, you have to make yourself happy first and your wife should also want to put your family first for your hard earned money that you work so hard for. Correct. Noah. Murado owes me $50,000 and I knew that I would never see it again.

I didn't think you were going to bring that up. I'm so sorry. I mean, no, have you ever had to lend money to a family? I've been on both sides of being an actor for a living. All right. There's times where I've had to borrow and there's also been times where I've been in the lucky position to be able to lend. Yeah.

I would say this is one of those rare answers where I don't have this like just like this is a easy blunt but because you're talking about two of the toughest things family and money and you put those two together I would really say every situation is unique every amount is unique every family's budget is unique. So it's about Communication at the end of the day you your partner your partner, you have to communicate. Only way to solve it. Agreed, agreed. All right, we solved that one, Daniel. So there you go. But you make yourself happy. But you got to, you got to do a better job explaining to your wife why this matters to you, right? Like clearly he hasn't gotten the ball into the end zone to use the parlance of your former career. All right, classic Reddit advice column about how to help a partner that is grieving

and has shut down. Hi Reddit, I need a little bit of advice. My girlfriend is 26 years old and just lost her mom a week ago. Her mother was her best friend. I wanna be there for her, but she has completely frozen me out. She doesn't respond to texts or calls

except with one word answers. I don't know how to support her during this time. We've been dating for three years, we don't live together and used to see each other daily. I don't wanna how to support her during this time. We've been dating for three years. We don't live together and used to see each other daily. I don't want to overstep boundaries, but I also don't want to come across as uncaring. How do I deal with this situation? That's a tricky one.

That's a really tricky one. Noah, why don't you start us off? You know, the only thing that comes to mind when I think about like moments where I'm down and out is I receive a text or I get a message and I may not respond but it doesn't mean that the impact wasn't there. It doesn't mean that I didn't see it, that I didn't read it, that I didn't register it. You may not get that confirmation back being the person that sends that text and you're kind of like I've reached out a bunch of times, they're not sending anything back, I don't

know what to do. Don't assume that your words aren't being heard and that they aren't being felt. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Everyone grieves differently. Yeah.

I lost one of my best friends in my second year university and I actually did the eulogy at his funeral and what did I do? I did a tight 10 minute stand up to make everybody laugh so they wouldn't feel pain. Some of our other friends totally detracted. You just have to let the person go through their grief process and you can't really force what you,

all you can be is supportive in a situation. That's all you can be and just hope that person comes through on the other side and you're there if they need your ear. Yeah, I've got nothing else to add. I think you guys both nailed it. So I'm sorry that that's happened to your girlfriend. I wish her the very best.

All right, time for one last dilemma. Let's see if we can squeeze this in. Dear Ben. Oh, wait, Ben, hold on. I gotta do it then. What? This is the final dilemma of the segment. Ah, dude.

Jacqueline, what are you? Dear Ben, I was recently asked to be the maid of honor in my close friend's wedding, and while I'm incredibly touched and honored, I'm struggling with the financial reality of it. Between the dress, the travel, the bridal shower, bachelorette party, and everything else that comes with the role, I just can't afford it right now. I'm worried with the financial reality of it. Between the dress, the travel, the bridal shower, bachelorette party, and everything else that comes with the role, I just can't afford it right now.

I'm worried about hurting her feelings or damaging our friendship if I say no. How do I turn down being made of honor without seeming unsupportive or selfish? Signed Alina. All right, you guys know all about weddings, so. Okay, let me go on this one first, Noah, because I actually have an ex

that's gone through this exact situation. Where she was friends with very affluent people and she couldn't Get to the level that they needed to be and we're talking about stuff that no normal they know helicopter rides stuff like this and she Bit her tongue spent the money and I think the level of resentment that can build from that Yeah, you know because you're trying and you're hoping that your friends understand your situation. I've seen bridesmaids. I know how it works. Hey, Noah, I'm going to give you about 30 seconds here.

Ghost them. Uh, just disappear. Don't show up to the wedding. Don't show up to events. Just move. Change your address. Get a wig. I mean, just, you know what I mean?

Gone. Love you. No, just, you know what I mean? Gone. Love you, Noah. Look, short answer is one of those obvious ones. If they're a real friend, then that's the biggest thing. Whatever. This silly stuff should get Trump by just being honest and friendship rules. Gentlemen, we've solved a lot of problems today.

We've done a lot of good in the world. Noah, Cap, Brad, Smith, hope to have you back soon. Really appreciate it. Love you, Noah. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? Noah, Cap, Brad, Smith. Hope to have you back soon. Really appreciate it. Love you, Noah. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise, and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. I've told you many times I love Canadian history. Just yesterday after work I went to the release party, if you will, the launch of the new Historica Canadian Heritage Minute and it was in honor of the the first Jewish Supreme Court Chief Justice in Canada, Boralaskin, and it stars Victor Garber. And I was speaking with the CEO of Historica. And I said to him, I went up to him and I said, hey, do you know Craig Baird of Canadian history?

He actually goes, oh, God, I know Craig Baird. What a great guy. What a great guy. And I said, you're absolutely right, which is why I have him on my show every Wednesday to teach me and you things about Canadian history that we should probably know. Craig Baird, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.

Okay, so let's talk about something that I know a little bit about, probably not the history that you know, but the official residence of the Prime Minister of Canada, 24 Sussex Drive. Yeah, 24 Sussex Drive is kind of a very important building for quite a while. It was actually built between 1866 and 1868. And it was built by Joseph Merrill Currier, who was a member

of parliament and he built it for his wife Hannah. And he lived it in for a time and then eventually his nephew who was also a member of parliament took it over and then Gordon Edwards nephew of William Edwards took it over and he had the home until he died in 1946. And then at that point, the government decided that they wanted to turn it into an official residence for the prime minister. And in 1951, that's when Louis Saint Laurent moved in. And one really cool aspect of this is that he only agreed to do this if he paid rent. So the prime minister actually paid rent from 1951 to 1971 of about $5,000 a year, which is no small amount of money for that period of time.

Sure. Yeah. But it's, listen, I lived there and as a kid, I thought it was really cool and really big. I went back as an adult and realized it's not that impressive. Yeah. In terms of, I guess, homes for the, you know, the, the leader of the country, it isn't that impressive of a home, but certainly isn't now. I mean, it's really started to kind of have a bit of wear and tear. So your father, Brian Mulroney, was actually the first to make it, you know, at public, the cost of renovations. And it wasn't public before that. So you'd have things like pools being added and all these other things. But when he did that, that kind of made it so that there's a bit more public scrutiny on the renovations. And then the

last major renovation happened in 2001. And since then it's kind of just been deteriorating. And Stephen Harper was actually the last prime minister to live at 24 Sussex. Well, I went, we went and visited a 24 after the, when Stephen Harper was prime minister. So I had been back in years and so much of the house had not changed. Like I'm talking that no one painted any rooms and it had no central air. It had asbestos in the walls. Once they opened them up a few months ago, they found the, the, the, the descent into a pit, that pitiful state is I think a sorry take on,

on us as Canadians, because we, we, we, we weaponize the cost of fixing that as opposed to rallying behind the sort of the symbol of what it could be. The fact that we could have a home where our prime minister of whatever political stripe could welcome world leaders in a way that shows that world leader that we are proud of our country

because we have this home that represents it. And instead of that, we're so petty about the nickel and diming and forgetting that that house should stand as a symbol beyond partisan politics. Well, absolutely. And I mean, it is going to cost millions of dollars to fix, but it really should be, you know, renovated and improved because you have, you know, 10 Downey Street and you have the White House and you have 24 Sussex and there needs to be a permanent home for the Prime Minister where, like you said, they're greeting heads of state and dignitaries and such. My two cents is raise it to the ground, keep the address of 24 Sussex because it's so important,

and build the most forward-thinking residence for any leader in the world, built with Canadian know-how, Canadian technology, Canadian lumber, Canadian aluminum, Canadian steel, and build something that has the lowest carbon footprint imaginable and show the world what we are capable of doing. That's my two cents. And now I want to turn over to what you're looking at this week, a gentleman by the name of Igor Guzenko. Igor Guzenko was actually a very important person in our history.

So yeah, he was a cipher clerk with the Soviet embassy in Ottawa. And in 1945, right after the war ended, he actually defected to Canada from the Soviet Union. And he took documents with him that kind of proved that the Soviets were spying on their second world war allies. And it also showed that there was a massive spying in Canada of Soviet operatives. And one of those was a member of parliament named Fred Rose, who eventually was ousted from parliament and convicted and then eventually left Canada. Wait a second. I believe in Poland.

Hold on. We had a Russian spy elected as an MP? Yeah, Fred Rose. He's the only, I believe the only member of parliament to be convicted of a crime like that, of conspiring to steal weapon research for the Soviet Union and yet he moved to Poland and actually had his citizenship revoked afterwards. I feel so embarrassed that I don't know the name of this Fred Rose dude that's that's that's incredible and so how did how did Guzenko defect do you know the process by which he did it?

Yeah, essentially what he did was he was stealing documents over the course of several weeks because he saw, you know, what life was like in Canada and he wanted to remain here with his wife and family. And he knew that there was always rumors that Seifer clerks, you know, when they were sent back to the Soviet Union, didn't always return to the Soviet Union, they kind of just disappeared. And so he was very worried about that. And so he just kept stealing documents. And then one day just never came back to work. And that's when the Soviets started to look for him. And, you know, he'd obviously was under the protection of the RCMP and some

very powerful individuals like Sir William Stevenson who was an inspiration for James Bond. He was born in Winnipeg and was a spymaster and created Camp X. Okay, let's listen to a snippet of Igor Guzenko. Guzenko and his family were terrified they had made a decision that was going to cost them their lives. From their perspective, no one seemed to care about the stolen Soviet documents. On the night of September 6, 1945, Gozenko and his family returned to their apartment, fully expecting to be nabbed by the Soviets. Gozenko likely knew that rumors would be swirling about him among both Canadian and Soviet operatives in Ottawa. The fact he didn't go into work that

day also didn't help to keep his defection a secret. The Soviets had also discovered the missing documents and they were on their way. Kozenko saw two men out in a car looking up at his apartment. He believed they were Soviets, but they were in fact two RCMP members who had been tasked with monitoring him. But Kozenko was not going to leave anything to chance. That night he took his family to the neighbor across the hall and stayed there. And at some point in the middle of the night, four NKVD officers burst into the apartment looking for him and the papers he stole. Across the hall, Igor Gosenko watched everything unfold from his neighbor's keyhole. The Russians left empty-handed.

Craig, this sounds like the most exciting thing that has ever happened in Ottawa ever. I would have to say it is a pretty exciting thing. It's a really interesting thing. William Lyme McKenzie King, who was our prime minister, didn't really want to act on it. So William Stevenson, the spymaster actually leaked the story to the press to really push King to act because he was worried about angering the Soviets. Well, that was going to be my, that was good. Craig, that was going to be my, that was good. Craig, that was going to be my question.

We must, that must have led to a sort of a frosting of the relationship between the Soviet Union and Canada. Oh, absolutely it did. And obviously the Soviets denied any, everything. And, you know, Canada knew what was going on, but Gozenko was actually taken to Camp X with his family. They celebrated Christmas there because he had to be under protection. And through the rest of his life, he wrote books. But whenever he appeared in the

media, he always appeared with a bag over his head to hide his identity because he was always worried that the Soviets were eventually going to find him. Well, yeah. And was he able to do we know how his life ended? Yeah, he actually lived a very quiet life. He, like I said, wrote books, but he died in Mississauga in 1982 and, you know, was, had a relatively good life. He didn't have quite as much fame later in life, which I think he wasn't very happy about, but he definitely had a massive impact and really made people consider him kind of kickstarting the Cold War itself. Oh my goodness.

I can't wait to listen to this, Craig Baird. But last question, very quick. His whole family, they were okay? They were safe? Yeah, everybody was safe and just lived a good life in Canada. And, you know, they always did have the RCMP kind of watching out for them and making sure that nothing happened. But it seemed like after the whole affair ended, the Soviets kind of just washed their hands of him and let him stay in Canada.

All right. Well, on Canadian History Acts, it's the story of Igor Guzenko, Craig Baird. As always, thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me again. Thanks for listening to the Ben Mulrady Show podcast. We're live every day nationwide on the Chorus Radio Network, and you can listen online to the Radio Canada player and the iHeart Radio Canada apps. And make sure to follow and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your streaming audio.

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