The Ben Mulroney Show - Big City check-in. The Issues Winnipeg's Mayor Needs Addressed.

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

- Winnipeg Mayor Scott Gillingham   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠���⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's be honest. We've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And, hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody. who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment.

After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs. Most people get it right the first time. But if it's not a match, you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada, Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost.

Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulrooney. That's better, help.com slash Mulrooney. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what?

Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank. Deposit it and wait for it to clear. Your pay really meant something. Payroll was incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving.

Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor, a national day to recognize payroll professionals? I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives? We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals.

Will rally support and bring the payroll party to the nation? A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat.

The whole way? The whole way. You are listening to The Ben Mulroney's show. It's Thursday, September 11th, and thank you very much for spending time with us. And thanks for joining me on my journey out west to Winnipeg, Manitoba. I've been here for three shows. I've been here since Monday night. As you all know, I'm a national ambassador for Benebrith, Canada, which, as I say every time,

the oldest independent human rights organization in the country, very proud of the work they do, they're very proud of the work that I get to do with them. And so last night was a celebration of their 150th anniversary. I was in conversation with Stephen Harper, and we had a great, great, far-reaching conversation. You'll be able to see a big chunk of that conversation on our YouTube channel a little bit later today. While in Winnipeg, I think you've got to do as the Winnipeggers do. We've got to walk the streets, eat the food, experience life in the city, and ask questions about what's important here and what are some of the issues in the city of Winnipeg and more broadly in Manitoba that may apply elsewhere and across the country. The Ben Mulroney show is all about having national conversations, but sometimes the best way to have them is to drill down in one city or another.

And so we've been talking with a number of people on the show for the past few days. I'm so glad to be finishing up this conversation on our final day with the guy where the buck stops with this guy. We're talking with Winnipeg Mayor Scott Gillingham. Thank you so much for being here. Ben, thank you so much for having me. And welcome back to Winnipeg. I hope you've been having a good time in our city. Oh, I have.

I think I've been telling anybody. Anytime there's a microphone on, I sing the praises of pizzeria gusto. And the incredible pizza at that place, the dawn is one of the best pizzas I've ever had in my life. I agree. It's a great place. of the things that a lot of people that are not from Winnipeg don't know. We have a great food scene here in the city, a very diverse city, great restaurants. I mean, depends what you feel like eating. You can, you can probably get it in Winnipeg. So a great food scene. Well, before we get

into sort of the state of play here in the city, I'd love to know what did you do before politics and why did you decide to enter politics? So I was on city council for two terms before becoming mayor in 2022. Prior to that, I was an ordained minister. I was a pastor for over 20 years here in Winnipeg for a short time in British Columbia and then it's Saskatchewan as well so that's really what happened and people ask me you know they say well there must be such a difference between political life and you know faith leadership and there's yes there's differences for sure but there's a lot of similarities at their heart both are about serving the public and so I kind of carry that same try to carry that same principle into this role as mayor

it's about serving the people of my city. But when you were deciding whether to take the leap from city council to that next level, to be the guy in charge, there must have been some issues that you said, you know what, no disrespect to the people who've been running this place, but I think they need a change, and I think the best change would be me. A couple of things that we really prioritized in the campaign, and to your point, in looking at what the issues of the moment were in 2022, First of all, homelessness, homelessness addiction, and sometimes a crime that goes with that has really grown across the nation.

You've got a national audience, Ben, you talked about the fact that as the mayor of Winnipeg, I'm in conversation regularly with the mayors, especially the big cities across our nation. Every city is facing the similar set of challenges with homelessness, addiction, mental health, and the crime that goes with it. So certainly in 2022, that was a primary issue that we were facing. there are other issues as well we've got here major infrastructure projects in our city that have got to be done in Winnipeg particularly there's a treatment

plant the north end treatment plant that treats 70% of Winnipeg's wastewater it has to be done it has to be completed we need federal and provincial partners to complete that project it's a big infrastructure project so other issues but those are the two primary ones all right well and we'll drill into those things in a little bit

but one of the focal points that we've been addressing on our show and we've been exploring examples of it from across the country is the issue of crime in the downtown core or crime in people's homes, crime, you know, carjacks, the like. I have to assume that Winnipeg is no different. Absolutely. In fact, just before we got on air, I just came this morning from a meeting

with some downtown business owners in our historic exchange district who were talking about the impact of crime and homelessness on their businesses. And again, this is a national problem. every city is facing it. So crime is a big challenge right now. I am working with other mayors and calling, among other things,

for the federal government to make changes to the bail and sentencing laws and also to take a look at the statutory release rules. The courts, the federal government, and others in the judicial system have got to decide that the safety of the community is more important than the comfort of the criminals. Maybe that's a cross way to say of men,

But what's happening right now is not working. We have too many repeat violent offenders who are out on our streets, breaching their court orders and committing more and more crime. So it seems to me that what you're saying mirrors what people are saying in Toronto, in the greater Toronto area, in Ottawa, in so many other places, in Victoria, in Colona, where they're saying that the priority of the criminal justice system is not restoration for the victim, but the comfort and dignity of the criminal.

You talk to any mayor, and I'm the vice chair of the Big City Mayor's Caucus for Federation of Canadian Municipalities and was on a call with my fellow mayors, 20 of us the other day. It's the same issue in every city. And so, you know, one of the positive things, I did have a phone call with Justice Minister Sean Fraser

about two weeks ago. I appreciate that he took my call. I pressed it to him clear. I said, I know that your government is looking at making some changes this fall. You've got to make the changes as federal parliamentarians so that repeat violent offenders are not on our streets breaching their court orders. And what did he say? He said they're very open to that.

I was, I appreciated his response to this. Did you get a commitment? Did you get a commitment or was it a political? No, no, I've kind of worked with Minister Frasier in the past and other things. And I really truly believe he's sincere. but ultimately at the end of the day, the proof is at the pudding. So we're going to keep pressing for changes to be made. Is your expectation, because this is a problem across the country,

is your expectation that this is something that will be dealt with, that you hope is dealt with early in this new sitting of parliament that starts on September 15th? I hope so. I hope it's one of the priority bills that they deal with because we really do need to see changes. You know, Winnipegars are frustrated and frankly fed up with the same individuals perpetuating,

crime on our streets over and over and what people have to understand not only does does you know crime repeat crime threaten individuals but it hurts economic growth you know for for businesses to invest they need the environment where they're confident

that they can make that investment well we saw the story I heard when I landed was how many 7-Elevens in town have had to close because they they just can't make it the economics of it work with crime being a line item on their budget. Yeah, I think with 7-Elevens, that's true,

they're for sure. There's, there's, you know, loss prevention and loss that and crime that did make a difference. I think if you take a look at 7-Eleven's strategy across North America, they've closed a whole bunch of stores. I think there's more than crime involved. Yeah. But I was told, Mr. Mayor, when I

came here to see J-O-B, I got here too early and I didn't have a pass to get in, so I told my Uber driver, I was like, that's okay, I'll just go to a coffee shop, and he said there isn't one really around here unless you want to walk in places you probably shouldn't walk when it's dark outside and I that was surprising to me yeah so so one of the rules

that the you know the city has obviously is to create the cities have is to create the environment that encourages and incentivizes business but the police officers in our city in Winnipeg can only do so much they're arresting the same individuals over and over again only to see those individuals get bailed put back on the street

so one of the things that I would like to see the federal government look at in their changes is to change the laws in such a way so that, frankly, judges have less discretion. Yeah, yeah. So that there is, you know, more individuals who are, you know, not in the community committing crime, but incarcerated. And I'm not a put them in jail, throw away the key guy, Ben. I think there needs to be more investment in rehabilitation. Yeah.

When people are incarcerated. And we also have to take a look at what's happening with mental health right now. I do not believe, for a minute, that we're doing anyone with mental health. challenges any favors by letting them continue to struggle on our streets in their mental health and on we're going to stick a pin in that we're going to continue that part of the conversation because again you are saying things that i think are universal across this country the problems that you you're looking at but also what i think is a very canadian perspective empathetic understanding holistic these are these are things we all want in the legislation

that will fix these problems so we're going to drill down next don't go anywhere right here on the Ben Mulroney show. We're going to continue our conversation with the mayor of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Scott Gillingham. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to Scott Gillingham. Our guest, he was with us in the previous segment and it's a perfect way to cap off our time here in Winnipeg with the mayor of Winnipeg himself. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for spending time with us. Let's jump right back into our conversation about mental health supports for Winnipeggers. People who listen to the Ben Mulroney show know that I was an early proponent of BC's endeavor to create a system similar to what's called the Portuguese model where they would make decriminalize pretty much all drugs.

And in that case, it was fewer than that. But the Portuguese model insisted on creating a new pathway of recovery where you wouldn't be sent into the criminal justice system. You would be put into a recovery system and all the money that you were saving from policing and incarceration. in prosecution, that would be diverted to this new place where people could get the help that they needed. And that was recovery and mental health and all of that stuff. British Columbia, it was the tragedy of the unfinished symphony, right? The golf swing that doesn't go all the way around, right? And because they didn't do that, we fell into the chaos that we've seen in British Columbia and that has repeated across the country. So anybody who would suggest that

I, like you said, I don't want to lock people up and throw away the key. I don't want people to fend for themselves. I want those systems in place. What is the state of mental health supports for those who need them, but specifically people who are wrestling with the demons of drug

addiction in the city of Winnipeg? Well, thankfully right now, thankfully right now, I appreciate that I've got a good relationship with the Premier of Manitoba and his government. There are not though, there are not enough detox facilities there are not enough mental health facilities on my walk over to this studio today ben from my office which is about four or five blocks i passed by a couple people one in particular and i said to

the guy who was with me i said we are failing this woman who is obviously in the midst of a mental health crisis or something another and and i said it you know before the break i believe as a society we are failing individuals when we leave those struggle with mental health on our streets We've got to get people back into mental health hospitals with the supports that they need to be successful. You know, you and I, if someone had a broken leg and we can see that they were broken, we wouldn't let them just keep riding around the street to say, hey, let's get you some help, let's take you to a place where you need the help, and let's get their steps. But, Mr. Mayor, it's even worse than that.

It's even because if someone is walking around with a broken leg, they are going to, the pain will cause them to go to the hospital, right? They will do that. But when somebody is in the grips of addiction, and I've heard this, from addicts. They say addicts choose the path of least resistance. And the easiest thing to do, the path of least resistance

is to do more drugs. It's to seek out crime, do crimes to get more drugs. It's to lie to and cheat and steal from family to get more drugs. That is the mentality of a mind gripped by drug addiction. And so when the courts say, well,

we have to honor the individual and the human dignity of charter dictates that we have to let the drug addict be an addict, that's an insult to what we know happens in the mind of an addict. And so it's more than that. At some point, you have to force them to do something that the drug addicted mind doesn't want to do, but when it's clean, we'll be thankful that it happened. That's right. And I think, you know, we, we, there's philosophical shifts that happen, you know, in generations. And for a while, you know, it was years ago,

we had institutions and we you know maybe maybe things were not done the way they should have been done in the institutions but the pendulum has swung so far the other way that so many the people who really need to be in a space in a place where they're getting the help they need whether they can call for it on their own or in a place to ask for it on their own you know they're now on the street and we need the place where people can have the chance to get well and I think there's a moral

obligation that we have as a society to make sure those individuals are in those places getting well and not just running free on a street remaining unwell. And the kind of the byproduct of that is too often in the core of our cities, and Winnipeg struggles are the same thing, it is unwell people who are determining the state of our downtown. It is criminals who are repeat offenders who are out, you know, because of court rulings, who are determining the state of our downtown. And so I think, you know, thankfully, philosophically, I think the pendulum is shifting. Winnipegars are fed up.

They want changes. I want changes. And so we need to work towards those changes. Does this job ever test your faith? Oh, it's funny. It's test my faith, but it's deepened my faith. How so? Well, in two ways, you know, I realize there's so much, you know, as a person of faith,

there's so much that is out of my own control. And, you know, you have to also, you know, So I'm a guy who prays, like a lot of other people. I pray regularly, I pray every day, you know, for wisdom and strength. But what this job also does, we talk about all the hard things and the things that aren't working well. I have the opportunities, mayor, the privilege as a mayor of the city, to get to every corner of the city and see the great work that people are doing in the city. There are so many people who are quietly, consistently, day after day doing their part to make a difference. Whether it's on the front lines, helping those with homelessness and addiction,

whether it's people investing in businesses, whether it's police officers, firefighters, paramedics who show up every day and do the work. And I talked to one the other day who's been in the, you know, he's been a paramedic for decades. He's still, he's not jaded yet. He's tired. He's burnt out, but he's not jaded yet. And he still is in it for the right reasons. And that inspires me.

Are there any aspects of your job requirements that challenge your faith? Are there parts of, you know, Scott Gillingham, the mayor's job that Scott Gillingham, the pastor would have said, I can't believe you're doing that. I don't know about that. I think one of the things, obviously, a mayor, our city is very diverse. So there's just so, you know, there's every faith group under the sun, you know, it seems like in the city. And I've learned to appreciate more the role of faith communities. And I talk often about how every city has faith and cultural infrastructure that we often overlook. In Winnipeg, for example, we've been able to help settle 29,000 Ukrainians since the war broke out since Russia's unjust incursion, you know, invasion of Ukraine.

And the only way that was possible was because of the cultural Ukrainian community and the Ukrainian Orthodox and the faith churches that have helped them settle. I want to take the last few minutes to talk about something that I think is probably. unique, if not unique, but certainly particular to Winnipeg. You know, anyway, again, anybody who's listened to my show knows how important I think true, meaningful reconciliation is with our First Nations. Now, I'm not talking about the performative nonsense. I mean stuff that will markedly make that relationship better by empowering First Nations. You are the mayor of a city that is the highest percentage of indigenous citizens.

So in a way, you're responsible for your own microcosm of that project. Talk to me about what is unique to your job, given the fact that we're living in a context of a moral imperative of bending towards true reconciliation. Well, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. We need to move to reconciliation, and it's a long journey. One of the things that's happening that's very exciting in Winnipeg is we are really on a path, I think, of economic reconciliation, where many of our First Nations communities and leaders have and are seizing economic opportunities, Not too far from here. A few blocks from where we're sitting is the old Hudson's Bay building.

It was opened in 1926. Every Hudson's Bay building is an old Hudson's Bay building. Tushay. So it was open 100 years ago. That building is now, you know, take the property of the Southern Chiefs Organization who's doing a complete renovation of that building. And it'll be both housing, but it'll also be services for First Nations people as well. That is a major project that is,

is creating a lot of jobs for First Nations people. A little further down the road here in Winnipeg is the old Department of National Defense property where we had an army barracks. It is now the property of the Treaty 1, 7 First Nations. They're doing the largest urban economic development zone, the largest infill project in Canada. And that's a really exciting development there as well. So those are economic opportunities, economic reconciliation, which I think makes a difference. I've got to ask, I mean, central to moving forward together is trusting the person on the other side of the table.

Would you say, given your experience in this city and your experience in politics, that relations between the leadership of First Nations and the city are good? Do you trust each other? Well, I do. We do. Kitty corner to where we're sitting today. We've got the Mantle-Mathe Federation who's doing a project. I have good relationship with the President Chartrand, the First Nations leadership all across this province as well.

Those relationships are critical to progress. Mayor Gilliam, thank you so much. This has been a really great conversation. I actually feel like I know your city a lot better. I really appreciate it and all the best to you, please. If you ever have anything of importance you want to talk about nationally, you come on to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks, Ben.

You're welcome back to Winfay any time. I dare you to pay attention. I dare you to speak up. I dare you to try something new. I dare you to challenge what you think you know. I dare you to think differently. I dare you to show up. Paul and Blurview dares to shape the future of disability healthcare for kids.

Together We Dare. Donate today at togetherweedare.com.