The Ben Mulroney Show - Bullying in the TDSB -- where is the zero tolerance?

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

GUEST:  Kevin Vuong / Former MP / senior fellow at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute / naval reservist If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's what Wayfair wins. Patio seating, umbrellas and grills. All delivered, fast and easy. Shopwayfair.ca.ca.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. I would hope we would have turned a corner on bullying years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. I was bullied relentlessly, mercilessly in public school to the point where I was every day I'd go to school. It was survival.

And I would actually hope that this bully would pick on someone else, would get another target. that's no way to go through school. It's no way to go through life. It's no way to have a productive learning experience. And I would hope that we'd have gone past that, which is why I was quite surprised to read a story in the Toronto Sun today by our friend Kevin Vong, former MP and senior fellow at the McDonnelly Institute.

And also Naval Reservists. Come on, let's not leave that out. talking about a recent incident and this family is dealing with a bully at the TDSB and they can't seem to get a handle on it. Kevin, how are you today? I'm doing all right and I'm glad the story is getting the attention it deserves. It's, uh, the story sucks. It really does.

So tell us a little bit about it. So I have a colleague at work and she was, you know, water cooler talk, talking through different problems that we face. I look to her because she's a more experienced parent. Her kid's a little bit older. And she has a seven-year-old who's in grade two. And since January, her son has been attacked five different times by the same kid. And this kid, this is what, seven years old?

Yep, seven years old. And he, you know, her son used to love recess. I mean, who wouldn't? Especially when you're a kid, you look. forward to going out, playing with your friends. And instead of doing that, he now has to look over his shoulder. And, you know, what's, what has happened and what she's told me is progressively as it's gotten worse, you know, so obviously she's raising concern.

She's gone to the school principal. And she's being told, oh, you know, we're doing everything we can. This, the, the, the assaulter now has 100% adult supervision. So he's under supervision. and yet these assaults are still happening. So when you're seeing adult supervision, it's having an adult to follow him around, has to stay attached to him at all times?

That's right, to keep an eye on him. And the other thing that they've tried. And how then is it possible that this kid is still attacking other children? That's a good question. I don't get it. I don't understand. She's continually tried to work the process, right? Yeah.

There's an issue at school. You raise it to their principal. The principal doesn't seem to really care. And if anything, seems to have kind of put forward this scenario, which I think is intolerable, right? So when the kid who is assaulting my colleague's son, you know, has a problem, he's met with literal hugs, Mike, and storytime. I don't know how that's supposed to change behavior. but that's part of kind of the Toronto District School Board's approach towards this idea of progressive discipline. And then she asked, because she's concerned, and her son is, it's like, okay, what happens if he tries to defend himself?

Well, then all of a sudden she hears, well, we have zero tolerance for self-defense. Like zero tolerance for self-defense. Again, we hear that too much in the society where somebody who's just trying to defend themselves, defend their home, from whatever. And then they become the target of police or the target of authorities. It's kind of backwards. Yeah, it certainly is. I don't know what it is about this instinct that we have in today's society, or at least by our institutions, to scrutinize the person who dare to defend themselves or fight back,

as opposed to the one who's doing the attack king, right? And I think that's for me, you know, it's one. thing if we're talking about, you know, and there's actually private members building the House of Commons to, for the first time in years now, really look at giving the person who's defending their home, the presumption that they acted reasonably. But this, but that's, that's an adult matter. What we're talking about here are children. They're seven years old. And the, the school board, the school, you know, the Toronto District School Board, never mind the, it's now been raised to the superintendent level, who doesn't seem to give, give, give, this.

this is seriousness that it deserves and the principal. And they're failing all of the kids. And I say all because, Mike, it's not just my colleague's son. Since she started kind of speaking out and talking to other parents, four other families have come to her. They're just learning more. Five kids. So it's not like one bully targeting one kid.

It is a bully who has been assaulting multiple children. Well, this is, it's shocking because when I was looking at, into this and nowhere in the official TDSB bullying or discipline policies is there this phrase, zero tolerance for bullying. It doesn't exist. But you know, I am of two minds that I do understand that kids who

are bullying might have some things going on at home. They might have issues with their parents. They might have things going on with other family members that you just don't know about and they're taking it out on other kids.

So you have to work with those kids. You can't just obviously toss them aside. You need to get them the help they need. However, there comes a point where you have to say, okay, enough is enough. Yeah. And I think there's a reason why there are special schools for kids who may be struggling, right? So like I'm, I raise this issue not because I have any particular malice towards the kid

who's assaulting my. colleague son, although, you know, obviously I'm not, I don't accept that. I'm not happy about that. But this kid obviously has issues and he's being failed by the system as it is also. In addition to my colleague's son, this, you know, the kid who's doing the assaulting, he's obviously not being set up for success. He's not, his needs aren't being met. The 100% adult supervision, my understanding is there's two people who swap and take turns, which which I think is even worse. They're, you know, two adults who clearly are not supervising him properly.

And they're not protecting any of the, at least five other kids who have been assaulted by this particular one. And so right now, the school board is screwing over five kids, or correction, I guess, six kids, never mind, whoever else across the school district is in a similar situation. I wonder if this plays into it a little bit, because if there's one teacher or one adult that's supervising this kid, I do know that within the school board system, they're not allowed to jump in and tear kids apart who are fighting

unless there's another teacher there. There have to be at least two teachers. It's a liability issue. So they have to go find another teacher, find another parent, find it whatever it is, another grown-up, to be able to come and to break things up. I wonder if that plays into it as well. And if it is, one, they should convince,

to the parent because right now they're not doing that. You know, they're just giving platitudes. All we're doing everything that we can. We're doing our best. But they're obviously not. And frankly, you know, their focus to me just reeks about managing the parents as opposed to doing their duty, which is protecting our kids. And frankly, that's, you know, for me, like this is a nightmare situation.

My daughter is in Montessori right now. She's not too yet. But I'm worried about if we're, We don't address this policy, this progressive discipline. It isn't working. And there needs to be consequences at a minimum. And frankly, I think these seven children are being failed from the six who have been attacked and the one who's doing the attacking. Well, I've got to take a quick break here.

Can you stick around just on the other side? I want to ask you a little bit. I want to talk to you a little bit more before I open up the phone lines just about this progressive discipline model, exactly what they are doing at the TDSB, because it seems. like they do have a range of like interventions and supports and consequences, but it's a little bit weak. It's, it really is, it's very progressive to the point where you're like, geez, there's nothing really protecting the victim here. So stick around. I want to ask you a couple more questions about that, okay? Sure thing. You got it. Awesome. All right. Well, this is Kevin

Vaughn. We're going to continue this conversation after the break. And then we're going to open up the phone lines. 416 870-6400. 416-870-6400. We're talking about bullying and what can be done, what's not being done, and really, and what the school board is telling this family about this family of the kid that's being bullied about what they can do to protect their son. That's next on the Ben Mulroney show. We're talking about bullying within the TDSB. We're going to talk to Kevin Vaughn vong here for a couple of just a few more minutes here and then we're going to open up to you 647 300 sorry 647 what am i talking about it's not the number that's not the number that's not the number I think so I think so now everyone knows the number starts from 647 no it no no 8 7 no

I Ben forgot the number the day of the day and I forgot I gave him the gears over it it's it's it's it's 416 870-6400. 416-870-6400. That's the number you should call. Oh, what a... End of three hours, Kevin. That's what happens when you talk for two and a half hours. Happens the best of us.

Well, and the worst of us, which is me at this moment here. So let's talk just quickly about the TDSB and what are they doing. They have this progressive discipline model. What do you know about it in terms of what they're able to do when bullies rear their heads and how are they able to deal with them? So, you know, it's this, and for anyone who really wants to look it up, it's, it's, I did, it's operational procedure PR702. And it's this whole idea that we want to be supportive, right?

We, if there's, if there's inappropriate student behavior, we don't want to be just punitive, we want to be corrective, we want to do educational measures that helps them build positive habits, resolve conflicts and remains engaged in their learning. Sounds great, right? Yeah, it does. This is in practice at a West End school in the Toronto District School Board. I'm do my best to preserve, you know, obviously, the confidentiality and all that sort of stuff. For my colleague's son, what it means is the boy who's been assaulting her son,

who's assaulted him five times and at least four other kids. It means hugs and story time. And so imagine you're a seven-year-old kid and you're doing what I think everyone can agree is bad and wrong. Yeah, I hope so. When you get hugs and dedicated story time, does that not just reinforce like what you're doing? You're getting all this attention because, you know, the school board has given this kid who's assaulted five others and my colleague's son five times. that 100% adult supervision, which by the way, there has still been incidents since, which also then raises the question, what are these adults doing?

Okay, well, it sounds to me like this PR702 progressive discipline model was created by the same people who thought, let's just give a trophy to everybody and not have anybody be for second or third or last place. Yeah, I mean, listen, you know, all about destigmatization and all a certain. stuff. And frankly, I think a lot of Canadians, and especially Torontonians, are seeing the consequences of that. There's a reason why we stigmatize violence, why we stigmatize addiction and all those sort of things, right? And I think the Toronto District School Board needs to ask themselves at what point do they call it and admit that

the traditional classroom isn't working for the kid who's assaulted five others. And when they're going to start What's the principal? What are the teachers? What is the school board telling this family then? They're telling them, listen, we're doing everything we can. We're at maximum resources. And frankly, to me, it just reeks of managing parents instead of protecting kids. Yeah. You see, if it was my daughter, my child that was in that situation, that would not be acceptable. I would be at that school every day. and I would be

I would be elevating this to the highest levels I would be talking I would be reaching out and talking to the other parents because I just I have such zero tolerance for bullying because of the experience I had growing up and I do not do not handle that I imagine that you do the same way yeah and listen I we're there's so much focus on children's mental health and and you know is a school worth thinking about the mental health

of the five kids who have been assaulted right? My colleague's son looks so, he used to love recess, like every kid should, and he spends it looking over his shoulder, trying to say as far away from his assailant as much as possible. Like, what about his mental health? And what kind of long-term effects? Because, you know, you and I were talking offline, we've both been bullied. Yeah. You know, how does that can affect him for the rest of his life? It does affect you. It does affect you with the rest of your life. It makes, it makes, it makes, it changes the way you approach relationships. It really does. The guy that bullied me, like years and years ago, I was a small kid. I'm not a small guy anymore. He actually, a friend, a mutual friend, had tried to invite him over to my house. This is when I was an adult for a candidate party I was hosting. And I lost it. It ruined my candidate. I said, you bring him over. I'm dragging him into the

street and making an example of him. And that's not me. but that's the reaction I had. Kevin, thank you for writing this story and having this conversation because this is an important one for us to have. Oh, my pleasure. I look forward to listening to what people have to say. Yeah, well, we're going to open up right now.

Kevin Vong, former MP, and please check his story out in the Toronto Sun. We'll talk to you soon. Let's go to Sandra. Sandra, the story that you just relayed to us, it seems disturbing as heck. Absolutely. The TDSB is absolutely failing in their duty to protect or needed care for her children.

My granddaughter, she's eight, she's just shy a few weeks of nine. Okay. At least three, four years. We're in an East End school, like Danforth area. 10 plus assaults on her from this one child. I've witnessed this child push her down a flight of stairs. He's pulled chunks of her hair out. multiple assaults.

Most recently last week, she was sitting down at an assembly and he came up to her and he was standing up and pulled down his pants and shoved his bare penis in her face. Oh, my. This was Monday, and this is just the amount of accountability

that the schools are taking to protect our children. This was Monday. By law, they have to notify the parents of any serious incident by the end of day. My son didn't receive a phone call until Thursday or Friday from the teacher asking why she wasn't at school and if it was because of the incident and my son asked well what incident

and it's almost become like a regular thing of my granddaughter reporting and nothing happening that she didn't even tell anybody about this is there the thought of I mean it's we're talking children here is there a thought of getting uh is there the thought of going to the police is there a thought of that that's what ended up happening because the school hadn't notified the parents of this serious incident. So my son went to the... I mean, he wanted to go after the father

and understandably, like, what do you do as a parent when this is happening? And the parents aren't even controlling their own children. The school said, you know, we have the maximum supports for this child already. There's nothing we can do. So my son went to the police station and the school only took it seriously

once the police showed up there. And the principal phoned him in their peers, saying, you know, she's a story. She admits she dropped the ball on this. Enough of this sorry stuff. Enough. Exactly. I don't want to hear sorry.

I want to hear action and that's it. Absolutely. So I hope this, you keep on pushing for this because that's. To the furthest we can. Absolutely. Absolutely do that. And protecting our children. And again, it's the inclusivity, right?

Like I'm sorry, but at some point, I grew up in the 80s and we had behavioral classes. And there was a reason for that. and this whole thing of parents wanting their children be inclusive, not when your kids are behavioral kids like that. Yeah. You have to draw a line somewhere. She's never seen a penis in her life. This is her first experience of a penis to the face by another.

All right. Sandra, I really got to stop saying that because that's, it's a little shocking to hear and a little rough. But I hope you get to the bottom of this and get some protection for your granddaughter. This stuff has to stand. Thanks for the call. Jeffrey and Caledon, your child is in Peel District.

How was your child navigated this world of a bully? Well, you know, it started off in grade 7, carried on through the beginning of grade 8. And once again, it was the same sort of story, right? Just lots of platitudes, lots of we're doing the best we can. you have documented cases where we were documenting things. Of course, we would write the child's name down who were the offenders. The school themselves would never provide any documents to us about who the offenders were because we had to protect them, even though they were the offenders.

And eventually we just had enough when superintendent went to trustee and we changed schools. We had no other. You actually changed schools, yeah. Yeah, like it came down to that point. Our child was coming home every day, just miserable, and you can see them close off as an individual and affect their confidence and personality. Heartbreaking, isn't it?

Yeah, heartbreaking. Luckily had a better experience. And, you know, by the end of this year, his confidence is way up, and he was back to being the happy kid he was. Yeah, I know a kid, and when I was in high school, had to change schools because he was getting bullied so relentlessly. I saw him years later. I thought about eight, nine years later.

And I was like, oh, hey, what's that? going on? He goes, and he told me the story. He goes, yeah, I had to change because that guy was made in my life miserable, and I hated myself and I was going to, something bad was going to happen. And yeah, you shouldn't have to do that. And the schools, you should, the schools should be protecting children. Yeah, I think it's, it's not necessarily in the school itself protecting the children. It's more the school's disciplining the offenders. I think, you know, children Children can self-regulate themselves at points in time, but when they can't, they need discipline. And discipline has to come in consequences.

And I think that's the biggest thing that we're missing in today's society is consequences for actions. Well, consequences are important thing for people to learn. Jeffrey, thank you very much for the call. Since the dawn of time, humanity has been at war. It has shaped the world around us. And if it somehow feels like we've been here before, it's because we have. I'm David Boris. I'm a military historian, and on my new podcast, Hostile History, I take us inside history's most defining wars and rebellions. From Genghis Khan to the war in Iran, find out how the past can explain the present.

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