The Ben Mulroney Show - Canada at a Crossroads

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

On today's episode of 'The Ben Mulroney Show', Ben Mulroney sits down with former federal cabinet minister Lisa Raitt and former senior aide to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty Regan Watts to examine a turbulent week in Canadian politics — from the CBC’s controversial language around 9/11 to Doug Ford’s clash with Donald Trump, the secrecy surrounding the rejected U.S. trade proposal, and Mark Carney’s push to strengthen Canada’s economic ties with Europe. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We've got ancestors. Search free until August 31st. Visit ancestry.ca for details. Terms apply. Canada, we got to talk about the CBC. On a beautiful September morning, 3,000, nearly 3,000 people lost their lives in the single most significant terrorist attack

in North American history. And among those nearly 3,000 were 26 Canadians. And so when I read, thanks to Warren Kinsella from Post Media, that a memo addressed to CBC News staff authored by one Bassem Boschra, who is the Senior Director of Journalistic Standards and Public Trust at the CBC News, that keep that title in mind, wrote to the staff, of reporters and editors, quote, do not refer to the September 11th attacks as terrorist attacks. I'm going to say that again. Do not refer to the September 11th attacks as terrorist attacks going on.

The hijacking led to passenger jet crashes. It's not terrorism. These were hijackings that led to passenger jet crashes. I got to bring in the big guns to make sense of it. So please a welcome to the show. Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park, and former senior aide to Jim Flaherty. And Lisa Raitt, former federal cabinet minister and member of the Advisory Committee on Canada, U.S. Economic Relations. Lisa, I'm going to start with you.

And by the way, welcome to both of you. This is a news. Bonjour, monchaum, migwitch. Words have to matter. Words matter. This rewriting of history by the state broadcaster is offensive on every. every level. It's shameful. It's absolutely shameful. I'm glad somebody brought it to light. I'm glad that you're getting an idea of what it's like to try to work with CBC and what their group think is,

quite frankly, it is just covering up and covering down all things that they find to be uncomfortable or they may not be happy with. I remember we had a fight with them about language, Ben, a couple of years ago, whether or not we could call a murderer or a murderer. I mean, it's the insanity that continues to perpetuate all the time. Regan, how comfortable they must be in their station in life to be able to, on the eve of September 11th, with, like I said, families, over two dozen families in this country who lost somebody on that day, willing to do this. First of all, it's untrue. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's an assault on the English language. And it's an insult to the families of those who lost somebody. It's an insult to every family of every fallen soldier who gave their lives after 9-11 in Afghanistan.

Well, this isn't the first time, Ben, that the CBC has missed the mark with the type of language and directive that's come down from on high in the news division. I agree entirely with what Lisa Raid said. And I'll go one step further. You will recall some of the coverage around the burning of churches that took place. Just after 2020, 2021, 2021, CBC had some interesting language to characterize the violence and the desecration of houses of worship. They just happened to be Christian homes of worship. But the CBC issued some directives around there.

We also know Ben, you and I, and I know Lisa knows this as well, how the CBC talks about anti-Semitic violence and anti-Semitic hate towards the Jewish community and the types of language that it deliberately chooses to use. Now, I am conservative, but I also believe that a strong Canada should be inclusive of a strong CBC. However, if there is one candidate for an Enema in this country, it is the CBC's News Division, and perhaps the rest of it, because it needs a cleaning from top to bottom. But it does, if done properly, as an organization, if it runs properly, it should strengthen the fabric of Canada. But Lord, oh, Lord knows, we need a cleaning inside that place.

You're right. To paraphrase the Joker in Tim Burton's Batman, the CBC needs an enema. All right, let's move on. That was your old career, Ben. That was entertainment. We're hard news. Oh, I like it. I like it.

Listen, if we can get Jack Nicholson to make our case for us, we are all the better for it. Okay, so we are in sort of the early phases of this tariff war. And Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, he must have been. going through an emotional roller coaster, Lisa, where he first hears of a potential deal that would see the hollowing out of the automotive sector with a 25% tariff. And he was going to have to put the booze back on the shelves. And then he finds out, fortunately, I don't have to go sell that. But now we're in a full-blown war.

And he's always been a leader who's led with his emotion. I think it's served him very well thus far. And now he's sort of walking some of it back. But he's also saying he's got no regrets. about telling Donald Trump to kiss his posterior. As you see it, as somebody who's closer to this than either Oregon or I, has this emotional Doug Ford helped or hindered us in this trade war? TBD, to be determined.

I'm with you. This is Doug at his finest. He is wearing his heart on his sleeve. He's telling it like it is. Look, he was told by the steel fabricators and the steel producers in Ontario that, that the deal as was constituted was going to destroy the industry. And I mean, as a premier, he's going to take that to heart to heart, not just the tariffs, but the quotas that were going to be put

on how much we were allowed to send to the United States. Big problem. So he was probably relieved when the deal was done. But then you should have been a little bit more megammonous maybe about Donald Trump knowing that you're okay with the deal going south as you did. Don't poke the bear. And here's the reason why, very quickly, why you don't poke this bear? because right now these Section 338 tariffs are on specific goods,

these guys could add goods as they like. It may not just be the ones that are captured now. They may, for example, potted flowers, not in 338. Cut flowers in 338. Yeah. Regan, you know, you were on air with me when I gave a praise to our prime minister for when he was in the House of, when he was at the White. House and he flattered the president. A lot of people said, well, that's not the guy we elected.

I said, that's exactly the guy that you elected. He knows that the key to unlocking Donald Trump is flattery. That's the means to the end. But the opposite is also true. He's petty if you, if you insult him. And I think with this Lake Ontario nonsense and he's got to fall in line and all of the insults and the further threat of we're going to find a way not to have to do any business with the province of Ontario. I think that. that's a product of trying to go toe to toe to with somebody who trolls better than anybody. Yeah. Well, I think that's right, Ben.

You know, part of this dialogue, and, you know, at least as a former federal minister, so she'll, I'm sure, agree with me in this, which is, you know, there is a bit of state craft involved in nation-to-nation discussions. And these nation-to-nation discussions advance further when there is respect shown on all sides. Now, you know, President Trump is an unorthodox president, and I'll just put that term mildly. I don't believe that insulting the president, regardless of who it is, nor insulting the Prime Minister of Canada, as the president has done from time to time, advances the objectives of either country, which is to resolve this trade dispute and move forward. I understand that Premier Ford had an emotional reaction, and that's partly why wearing his heart on his sleeve is why he has won three majority governments.

But this is big boy and girl stuff. And telling the president to kiss his derrier was not wise. But he's acknowledged that and has decided to turn down the temperature. And that should move things forward. I think Lisa makes a good point, which is the Premier Ford, among all of the premiers, likely has the most to lose in a bad deal for Canada. You know, energy is one of those things that will always seem to work and flow. And so, you know, if you're Premier Smith, despite the bumps, oil and gas is still,

going to flow south. But Premier Ford with steel and aluminum and auto and auto and I've said this before, Ben, but disclosure, I work with a large auto maker in Canada. And so I understand how important this sector is for the province. So, you know, Premier Ford is right to be upset. But I think he's where he should be now, which is maybe a little bit quieter in letting the prime minister and the government of Canada lead these discussions on behalf of Canadians. And, you know, let's hope that cooler heads will prevail in the coming days. Yeah. And I, you know, sometimes in moments like this, it probably takes a little while for the chess pieces to line up in exactly the formation that you want. It does feel like after a little bit of uncertainty, people know, are getting a sense

of what their roles are in this. And the top of the top of the heap is the prime minister. So I do hope that everyone takes their marching orders from the prime minister and the PMO. We're going to take a quick break, but we're just getting started. Will we ever see the details of the trade deal that we rejected with the U.S.? And why is Prime Minister Carney addressing the EU Parliament. We got more with Regan and Lisa when we come back. Very pleased to continue my conversation with Lisa Raid and Regan Watson. If you're listening live right now, either on the radio or on the IHeartRadio streaming app, thank you. You may find us a little bit later on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple Music,

on Amazon, or in small snackable bites on social media. I thank you wherever you find the show. Regan, let's start with you. Look, I've said, I'm a cynic. and my personal outlook requires me to have a little more information. I'll support the prime minister. I'll support whatever we do. But I want to see what we walked away from. If Canadians are going to be asking, if the government's going to be asking us to feel the pain,

I think I want to see what we walked away from. But I don't think there are that many of me out there. I don't think there's enough for the government to consider my feelings. This country seems to have jumped in with both feet, behind the prime minister and that's fine but i find it really weird uh that at least some version of this information cannot be made public to us yeah i i and but just to be clear ben and for the record both lisa and i care about your feelings regardless of what the rest of canada may think um i look i i think you're you're you're asking in the context of the letter from shuv magindar

who was in your who was on your show i think it was earlier this week um and i know lisa joins me in acknowledging Shiv as a very good member of Parliament. And when it comes to foreign policy and foreign affairs, he's one of the most learned minds in the Conservative Party and the conservative movement. I understand Shove's letter. I understand the politics behind it. And if I'm advising the Conservative Party,

I think that's a wise move, which is to push for details and even a reopening of parliament. However, having said that, and maybe Lisa disagree, but I'm not sure, you know, these major international agreements are not negotiated in public. And the Prime Minister has an obligation to communicate with Canadians as he has done, as well as his cabinet. But I don't think it's wise for governments to put these details out in public. Having said that, if there is going to be an orgy of spending that comes out of Ottawa in order to support tariff pain inflicted upon us by the United States,

as well as maybe fundamental changes of the Canadian economy, I would encourage the Prime Minister and the Liberal Party to open up the House of Commons and have that debate on the floor. That is the people's house. and that is where these types of issues are discussed. But, you know, Mr. Pollyev should know better. He wasn't in cabinet for very long, but he should know better that you don't release these types of negotiating details before they're done. But as I say, Lisa may disagree, but I think should have made the right political move,

even if the prime minister and the government didn't acquiesce. Yeah, Lisa, is there a difference between ongoing negotiations and releasing details of a deal that we walked away from? Yeah, I think why it's okay for us to ask for the details. And I'm kind of with you on this one, Ben. I would like Canadians to know a little bit more. It's because we're losing the battle on communications around what was in this deal. It seems like everybody's got an opinion or they're all giving interviews to either

the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times on our side of the border. They're talking to Bloomberg. Like, let's just let Janice Charette or let's let Dominic LeBlanc sit at a table with the flags behind and just tell us what it was that was discussed at the table to the point that they can. Yeah. They don't have to give all the space secrets out. Yeah.

And then, you know, this is, this is it. One time, one shot, get it done and get our story out. This to me is a communications failure in not being able to tell the Canadian story. Yeah. I think that's fair, Lisa. Just the only thing I'll add, Ben, before you respond here is that, you know, the prime minister was economical in the in some of the details around the Gordyhow bridge opening and and he he you know that was not a communication success no I know it was for me it was up to me I would

have left the Gordyhow bridge closed but that's a whole other discussion but you know the government has not been great on communicating some of these things and so I you know I think there's you can agree with either side on this one and I think Lisa raises a fair point yeah and like I said if it's a deal that wasn't good enough for us we walked away because it was unfair. I think there are elements of that that could be made public, right? It's, again, but this is not a, this is not, people are comparing it to the negotiation of NAFTA where, where, yeah, there was, but there was forward progress. People were rowing in the same direction. You're not going to open it up in the middle of those negotiations. We're not in the middle of negotiations.

There has been a rupture in negotiations and therefore there is a communications gap. But again, like I said, this may be all for not because I don't think there are enough of people like me out there for the government to need to consider it politically. Except that, Ben, your father said, I was just going to say, Lisa, Ben's father would say many times that there was a rupture towards the end of the USFTA with Canada, where he went into, he told Ronald Reagan that if we couldn't get a dispute resolution mechanism, the deal wasn't going to happen. Yeah.

Yeah, very true. Very true. Lisa, last word to you? No, nothing of important. I was just going to say that the issue for me is they made a big to-do about how they're attacking our sovereignty and our culture and our language. I'd like a little bit more detail around that. Absolutely. Because, yeah, there's semantics there where it could be, he could be using words that are accurate, but don't actually represent a meaningful reality.

Or not, or not. I want to believe that everything the prime minister said is 100% true. I really do. Okay. What do we make of our prime minister? We may get the house sitting or not, but one thing we are going to get is Mark Carney addressing the EU Parliament. And that's the day after his big summit here on investment

where he's hoping to unlock something in the neighborhood of half a trillion dollars of investments in Canada. Another thing I hope he's able to achieve. But, you know, there's this narrative out there that we are looking for a rapprochement with the EU. And this story certainly plays into that, Lisa. Yeah, I hope when he's there, and I'm not fussed by him going. He obviously he excels at them. He's going to give a great speech. They're going to plot him a lot, add-a-boy kind of thing.

But while he's there, can he get the EU countries who have not signed off on our free trade deal to agree to bring it to their legislature and actually get it signed off so it's a binding deal? Because we have signed something, but it's not a deal yet. Regan? I totally agree with Lisa's encouraging. around getting the Prime Minister to encourage, I think it's the French and the Bulgarians and a handful of other nations. The Irish, too, I believe, haven't, and he was there in Ireland in the summer, who have not yet ratified the Canada-EU trade agreement. So I think that would be a good idea. But I have another point here, Ben, and that is, you know, I understand the Prime Minister is looking for allies around the world to strengthen our economic hand.

I'm sure there's other countries who are wanting to understand how the Prime Minister is managing the President at this time on these. issues. However, one thing that we are not in this country is we are not Europeans. We are a North American nation. And I don't know about Lisa, but I have no desire to join the European Union. And I don't know very many Canadians who do. And while the Prime Minister has certainly got a number of friends and allies in Europe, and I applaud him for building those relationships. Instead of going to Paris or Brussels, I'd like him to go to Baltimore or Pontiac, Michigan, and talk about the ties that bind North-South. Because as strong as the EU relationships, particularly particularly with this prime minister are, you know, there are people in Maryland and Michigan,

in Ohio, in Texas, and Arizona, California, and Florida and all kinds of other places need a message. And that would be my only quibble with that. It's not an insignificant one, but it is it is something that I think we need to be mindful of, which is Canada is not the EU. Lisa, a charm offensive by our prime minister south of the border. Is that a good idea? I would love to see that. I understand that the Americans do know that when he appears, Carney appears on TV. He gets high profile. He gets lots of news coverage. And they have a lot of respect for him. So yeah, I think he should go down and give more speeches. And he's got he's got the political capital to burn. And you're right. People pay attention when he speaks. Donald Trump,

I don't know, has that same level of political capital. And he's up against the midterms. And so we're going to feel more pain here than the Americans will for sure. But I don't think politically, Mark Carney is going to feel the pain that potentially Donald Trump could feel. So a very interesting dynamic at play. Is Regan frozen or is he waiting to talk? I think you know what? I think he's frozen. Lisa, thank you so much for being here.

Please don't be a strange. I'd love to have you again. Regan, I wanted to go to you, but we're up against the clock. But to the both of you, great, great chat. And I'd love to do it again soon. So thank you so much. Thank you, Ben. Bye, Regan.